Guild Wars 2

This is some sort of a rant/QQ post but I need to express how I feel.

All of the events for this Halloween were wicked! I had so much fun doing almost all of it (even though I’m still trying to beat the Clocktower. haha) But when it came to the most recent act, the dungeon in Lion’s Arch, I can’t help but feel very very unwanted by most people looking for strictly level 80 for parties. I mean, I know every minute counts so most of these pathetic dudes want to farm as fast as they can to loot exotics so they wanted maxed stats/gears on all party members and all. And not having a level 80 toon kind of sucks even though Anet made it so even a level 2 can enter the dungeon.

I don’t have any solution to this other than forming a group with fellow non-level 80 toons. But man, these people kicking me out of groups because I am NOT level 80 just kind of spoils the fun for me and maybe for other non-level 80 players, too.

I fear that this may also be the case in other non-event dungeons like COF, etc. but good thing I’ve decided not to do those dungeons yet and explore the rest of the game til I reach level 80. It’s just sad that for this limited time event, I don’t get to enjoy it as much if only I had a level 80 character, but well, the blame is on me for not rushing everything in the first place. Guess I’ll have to post the “LFG MK level 80” on the map chat next year. :/

Thing is there is no fault for people who want to do it at 80 as both gear and traits help speed things up, its very slow to run it with non 80 characters regardless how well you may play.

It shouldn’t be a problem for you since you aren’t 80 to make parties with non-80 aswell, if your rant is solely because higher level people choose different than it seems unfair towards the others aswell, a current situation is that some people want to run with their low level alts because they think that dungeon drops can be better(yet they all want to run it with other people’s 80), personally I’m only running with my main and don’t feel like losing time like this.

And really, if next time you plan to do the same I don’t see the point of the rant at all, in the first day I ran entirely with lowbies while I was still using my main, it was slow but once I’m in a party I dont leave or kick people, in your case, if you feel “hurt” that others are doing it to you, your answer is to do it to others? Weird to say the least.

Whenever I see someone asking for “level 80s only” (or asking for specific classes), I add them to my block list. And note that I have one character of each class, and most of them are level 80.

It’s not that I feel excluded, it’s just that anyone making that kind of demand clearly doesn’t understand how GW2 works, and by adding them to my block list I avoid making the mistake of inviting them for one of my groups later.

Thats because a group of full exotic equipped lvl 80s is much faster in farming this mission.

Nah, I was kidding with my last statement. I’m not that mean. Just felt I needed to say how I felt in that manner though. Haha.

They are just dumb people. I put them on ignore, because those players are the type I don’t want to play with anyways.

In a sense, they are doing me a favor by telling me who they are. I just hope my ignore list doesn’t have a limit.

your level scaled but your gears is not . in general, u still weaker than normal lvl 80.
however those kicked u also R. just ignor them and join the low lvl group. i’ve been in many,, even if i’m using my lvl 80 .

I think it’s pretty lame, considering it gives great EXP for low levels. I also have a level 80 in full exotics, but when I want to do this on a low level character, it’s pretty harsh. I always try to invite lower levels if that helps though

I am sorry you have run into level discrimination. I do not believe it is very pervasive but I think it is beginning to be an issue. Due to the fact that I like being at ranged with MK, I have been running the dungeon on my level 68 Asura. She has so far grouped with level 8 thief, level 12 necro and I only on occasion saw “level 80 only” in both my server and the overflow.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying level discrimination isn’t a problem. Hell, one guy on my server made it to my block list when he was spamming for “level 70+ for AC explorable” and then “LF tank AC explorable” earlier in the week. I had to bite down on my typing fingers to NOT start a fight on /map by asking “what the hell is a tank in this game!”

Plus there is a whole thread in the dungeon forum about people being elitist with both level and gear. MK isn’t very hard. I 4-manned it once with a level 11 in the team. So anyone who is discriminating against you based on your level is not worth grouping with! Just wait for people who aren’t impatient!

We usually make parties with 3-4 level 80 and 1-2 low levels, so everyone is winning. We still make fast runs (10-12 minutes) but we also help low level players to experience content and enjoy the event.

I’ve done the Level 80 only group and I’ve run with plenty of low levels. I’ll take low levels any day after that all 80 group farm.

Level 80’s can kill the Mad King faster due to Traits and Gear, but the sad part is it generally doesn’t happen. Low levels seem to be more cautious about pulling all those kitten spiders on the mid level, being as most of them can be avoided. 80’s like to pull everything and try to AoE it down which makes the fight take even longer.

Also it seems that on Kaineng, 80’s fail at jumping from platform to platform and low levels are pro at it.

I’ve run it with a mix of all levels, though only on my main(80). Once it was with a 15 and 16… It was noticeably slower, but we still had fun.

I don’t know if this makes me a bad guy or what, but I usually don’t care much for who i party with,(unless they are all level 2) but there’s times when i just need to grind out super fast. For example i needed to grind out MK before the reset the other day, but i only had like 1hour left before reset. I wanted to hit the lowest limit of the dimish return reward from the king before it reset. i wasn’t looking for 80’s, i was looking for 60’s+ as i was in a rush. Now i always help people out on dungeon runs if they ask me, especially if I just got done with AC em, and my party split with me having nothing to do. I’ll see people sitting there looking for SM, as they are all new to the game, so i lend a helpful hand and help them out, and funny thing is i’m on Kaineg(one of the lowest population US servers). When i first came here, do you know how long it took for me to even find a party for AC em? average of 1-2hours to get a group so i definitely know what those lower level players feel like. Curious question, would it make me a bad guy to say i’m looking for speed runs?

[edit]
also if you remember your first time fighting ralena and vassar, it can be a pain, i already know we’ll probably all wipe out the first time most likely, but i still put on a happy face and attitude as i know the group will understand it for sure the second time through, I have never yelled at anyone new to the game, because i enjoy helping players out, i am one of those people who would run out in wv3 and res some1 even if it meant i would die in the process, is it dumb? yes. did the other person live? most likely depending if he ran. do i die? yes. but i dont really care, i’ve got money for repair. a couple of silver isn’t gonna stop me from reviving someone, because by some chance i would like someone to do it for me as well.

This is very disappointing, and shocking too.

Just now in Darkhaven, a person was excluding anyone from their group because they were not level 80, and here comes the fun part…. If you were an Elementalist, you we’re kicked.
Went to my block immediately

I think it is worse when they state their class, level does count towards how fast the round can go, but who cares what they want- there are plenty of other people who just want to put together a group to give it a go.

Its a pity, but if nothing else, if you’re on SoS (sucks I can’t help other servers) and can’t find a group, hit me up on Marius Solstrum, I have no qualms taking any level.

@Bones well, there are no rules in choosing who you want to group with or forming a party for that matter. to each his own. the ultimatum of my post is just to express how i felt being kicked out because of level discrimination. and as i have suggested, and some others did, it would be prudent for the non-80 characters to just form a party with other non-80s and ignore the max level players who are looking for speed runs. it’s just sad in my opinion that other people exclude themselves just for doing speed runs and not doing the event for just the sake of having fun or meeting new people. well, i’m gonna say it again: to each his own.

I’ve beaten it with me (lvl 76) a lvl 16, 24, 14, 65 without much trouble whatsoever.

I’ve done it in a few minutes with a partial group, I’m a level 70 dagger Ele with crapshoot gear that frequently forgets to switch attunements.

EDIT @ Gall: A moderator once stated that this is reportable, or at least something like it. A guy got kicked out of a group for being an elementalist, posted on the forums, and the mod confirmed that he had every right to report the group. Now whether that stretches in to discrimination for level and other things I don’t know, but I would say yes since everyone is technically the same level in the dungeon.

Account.9832:

Whenever I see someone asking for “level 80s only” (or asking for specific classes), I add them to my block list. And note that I have one character of each class, and most of them are level 80.

It’s not that I feel excluded, it’s just that anyone making that kind of demand clearly doesn’t understand how GW2 works, and by adding them to my block list I avoid making the mistake of inviting them for one of my groups later.

Actually, your actions and this post prove that you’re, in fact, the one that doesn’t understand how GW2 works.

No matter how much Anet touts their system that supposedly “makes all characters equal, no matter what their actual levels,” it’s a load of crap. Sub-30 characters don’t have Elite skills unlocked. Sub-20 characters don’t have all their Utility skills unlocked. And gear doesn’t scale upward.

My level 42 thief’s bleeds deal a little more than half the amount of damage my level 80 ranger’s bleeds deal, while in the labrynth. My level 20 elementalist can barely solo the level 80 mobs in the labrynth, with a health pool that’s literally half of my ranger’s, and damage output that looks like I’m tickling the enemies with a feather.

Yes, sub-80s can complete Ascent to Madness. Hell, people have proven that a sub-80 can solo the instance, given enough time and dedication. But some people are chain-running the instance for the chance of exotics that drop from the chest, and so they want max level characters, who can all pull maximum weight.

This is not a slight against lower level characters, but an attempt to maximize run speed, based on the reality of how the game’s mechanics actually work.

My level 40 thief stayed on his feet the entire time and more than once healed a couple level 80s… when playing in parties I always make sure to have Shadow Refuge ready to go. Also at level 35 I didn’t have a problem in the labyrinth. Kills may take a while but it seems like the trick is to never stop moving.

Any lvl 80s who will not take you are some poor lvl 80s. I can understand if they wanted you to be at least 30 so you could have a full skill bar…but ….no I can’t even understand that. My boyfriend and I completed this one just the two of us, and ANYONE else who came with us would have just been more help. The first time through we only had 4 people and one of them started this as lvl 3 and had only been playing GW2 for a few hours (what a first impression!). It took a little bit to understand when we’d be overwhelmed by spiders, and the places to recover. The fact that MKT doesn’t regen and your teammates are free to take the door out to LA in the middle of the fight to repair armor and then rejoin you makes it easier. We took a thief and an engineer, and while we did die once each when MKT moved to the lowest platform (if you mess up getting there, the spiders respawn) that was about the extent of the problems. You can be feared off the platforms, so plan your positions with something behind you to run into. That isn’t an effect of MKT, but the scarecrows. In the large red rings, you’re vulnerable to crow swarms but should have time to run through those without being damaged too badly. If you take out the scarecrows (which go away on their own after about 3 swarms) you get feared, so you can actually anticipate that happening. The most damage you will take is standing too near an ally when MKT throws his shield. If there’s just two of you, it can bounce back enough times to take most of your health. The solution I found was just taking a turret skill or any skill really that summons something else to fight with you. The more expendable things, the mokittengets for the shield. Don’t be afraid to duck and cover. Watch out for exploding pumpkins (dodge and reposition, you have time). The stone temples are great places to recover, so if you feel you might drop, stick close to them and hide while you heal up. The stone pillar in the middle platform is also a great place to get 3/4 cover with a ranged weapon. Just peek out and shoot. It’s not 100% safe, but it’s pretty good. And shame on those lvl 80s for being snobs. If there’s more than one lvl 80 in the group, they’ve got it, easy.

You’re not going to be able to do sub 4 minute clears without full 80s and specific class makeups, hence the choosiness.

I can understand a group of people wanting to set up the fastest runs possible with the explicit purpose of farming the dungeon. This would naturally call for a group of level 80 players.

With that being said, I still think that auto kicking players based on their level for a dungeon such as this is quite poor character if they didn’t state beforehand what they were looking for in their dungeon group. Yes, there will be players that want to min/max and be extremely efficient. I feel as long as they state they are doing so when looking for more members, then no harm done.

Personally, I have also been doing MK dungeon runs but without the need to make it as fast as possible. One time I got a group of all 80s with the last and fifth member being level 23. I got a tell from one of the players asking me to kick the last member. I didn’t though, because I could care less about efficiency. The dungeon run went very smooth and only took about 2 minutes longer to do.

Mortbane.4308:

Any lvl 80s who will not take you are some poor lvl 80s. I can understand if they wanted you to be at least 30 so you could have a full skill bar…but ….no I can’t even understand that.

Your entire post is missing the main reason why people are being choosy, it’s not because the dungeon is difficult but because people want to do speed clears, low levels dont have the stats or the traits for that purpose. People can even solo MK if they want to, it just takes a hell lot of time.

Anyway my only problem in this act 3 currently are with the people who have mains but bring their alts instead because they think the drop is better, otherwise I have no problem with people who simply dont have 80s yet

Kaderin.7584:

Mortbane.4308:

Any lvl 80s who will not take you are some poor lvl 80s. I can understand if they wanted you to be at least 30 so you could have a full skill bar…but ….no I can’t even understand that.

Your entire post is missing the main reason why people are being choosy, it’s not because the dungeon is difficult but because people want to do speed clears, low levels dont have the stats or the traits for that purpose.

Anyway my only problem in this act 3 currently are with the people who have mains but bring their alts instead because they think the drop is better, otherwise I have no problem with people who simply dont have 80s yet

Then specify you are looking for a speed run and be polite about rejecting lowbies or some classes. Don’t make it sound as if there is something wrong with being a lowbie or a specific class. Because there isn’t.

Also, I am one of those players who brings alts to MK. But not because I think I’ll get better loot but because my main and only level 80 character is a Guardian and having done MK with her once, I decided I didn’t particularly want to be melee in MK. I would hate to think that people have an issue with me keeping my level 80 on ice. Not like I am burdening the party. My engineer and ranger are level 68 and 51 respectively. I am also very particular about buying trait books and stuff. While I know a lot of people who have gotten to level 80 doing things that didn’t make them a lot of money and thus they never bought the 1G and 2G trait books. You simply cannot assume a level 80 char is fully traited and knows what they are doing.

I mean, MK will be the first dungeon for a lot of players. Hell, it might be the first time some of them are partying. Just as Reaper Rumble and Lunatic Inquisition will be first time PvPing for a lot of players. Holiday events is a time when loads of players try out things they ever try and that’s a good thing!

Tinni.4351:

Then specify you are looking for a speed run and be polite about rejecting lowbies or some classes. Don’t make it sound as if there is something wrong with being a lowbie or a specific class. Because there isn’t.

Agreed, but most of them already say “lf 80 only” or something so the issue here raised is that the fact those groups exist and not because most of them dont specify, I do think that people who don’t specify then invite and quickly kick out the invited is rather rude as its simple etiquette on nomal behavior, which a good part of the player base seem to lack.

About the alt thing, its a personal choice as I’m not bringing my alt in for efficiency I don’t like to go with people’s alts who wont have neither stats or traits because it does make a difference, and yet I dont mind people who simply dont have 80s because thats a different story.

and i put players on block list when im asking for at least lvl 30 and i get lvl2 in party

Greyfeld.7104:

Actually, your actions and this post prove that you’re, in fact, the one that doesn’t understand how GW2 works.

I guess you think that applies to Arena Net too, since they labelled it as a “level 2 instance”. And I have no problem doing it with level 29 characters (or lower, for that matter), so it looks like I have at least some vague notion of how GW2 works…

Greyfeld.7104:

Sub-30 characters don’t have Elite skills unlocked.

And those 10 or 15 seconds that your elite skill lasts (after its 3-minute cooldown) make all the difference, right?

And gear doesn’t scale upward.

And your ability to dodge, make proper use of combo fields, clear any aggroed spiders quickly instead of having tunnel vision and letting them hit you while you spam the boss, or generally have a clue doesn’t scale up with your character level.

Oh how I wish it did…

As a level 33-34 thief (I leveled up during the dungeon) with a group with nobody past their 60s, it was actually manageable. However, it went by slower than a party of 3 decently geared 80s when I was on my warrior, also we did not get downed as much (like twice compared to 10+). It is however doable with anybody under 80 so I recommend just saying “Lvl ?? lfg MK (You get scaled to 80)” and eventually somebody will invite you.

Being able to complete a dungeon and being able to complete it quickly and efficiently are two different things entirely. A group of level 2’s may be able to complete the dungeon, but not with the same effectiveness and quickness as a group of 80’s. Let me get this out of the way, I didn’t care who I grouped with for the MK dungeon, but I can see where there’s a problem in the arguments.

Requiring someone to be a level 80 is like requiring someone to have a college degree before being hired. You can be a high school graduate with the best ideas and work ethic ever, but employers don’t know that. Likewise, you can be a great level 40 thief, but the people in your group don’t know that. It’s simply a safe and efficient way of screening people.

Furthermore an equal skilled, upleveled player will never be able to compete with an equally skilled level 80. Between gear (stats) and traits, they simply cannot compete.

Sure, it’s a cutthroat way of playing, but the real world is the same way. There will always be those exceptional players, people that will outperform a bad level 80, but you have no way of proving that beforehand. In the end, there are gonna be people that require only level 80’s, but I don’t think overreacting and blocking them is really warranted…

Did a couple of runs with guildies (all four of us were level 80) and a level 33 PUG tonight and, to tell the truth, we didn’t even notice that the guy wasn’t a level 80 character. It was going as smoothly and as fast as it would’ve with another level 80. Personally, I really don’t see a problem with not being max level for this dungeon, especially if most of the party is.

It’s such a shame to see people kicking out lower levels, especially since a run with a few lower level characters takes only a few more minutes to complete.

If you need a group for running the dungeon, feel free to whisp me in game – my guildies and I would be more than happy to help a lower level character run the instance.

The only problem I have with this is if it becomes the norm rather than the exception. As it is, its their sub fee, and if they wanna be a jerkwad about it, well that’s their right. But if it becomes standard where all parties need 80s, well, that excludes a good subsection of people who just want to experience seasonal content.

Account.9832:

Greyfeld.7104:

Actually, your actions and this post prove that you’re, in fact, the one that doesn’t understand how GW2 works.

I guess you think that applies to Arena Net too, since they labelled it as a “level 2 instance”. And I have no problem doing it with level 29 characters (or lower, for that matter), so it looks like I have at least some vague notion of how GW2 works…

Greyfeld.7104:

Sub-30 characters don’t have Elite skills unlocked.

And those 10 or 15 seconds that your elite skill lasts (after its 3-minute cooldown) make all the difference, right?

And gear doesn’t scale upward.

And your ability to dodge, make proper use of combo fields, clear any aggroed spiders quickly instead of having tunnel vision and letting them hit you while you spam the boss, or generally have a clue doesn’t scale up with your character level.

Oh how I wish it did…

I appreciate your counterargument that completely ignores the context and point of my entire post. But please, feel free to continue ranting. I know it can be therapeutic.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

This is some sort of a rant/QQ post but I need to express how I feel.

All of the events for this Halloween were wicked! I had so much fun doing almost all of it (even though I’m still trying to beat the Clocktower. haha) But when it came to the most recent act, the dungeon in Lion’s Arch, I can’t help but feel very very unwanted by most people looking for strictly level 80 for parties. I mean, I know every minute counts so most of these pathetic dudes want to farm as fast as they can to loot exotics so they wanted maxed stats/gears on all party members and all. And not having a level 80 toon kind of sucks even though Anet made it so even a level 2 can enter the dungeon.

I don’t have any solution to this other than forming a group with fellow non-level 80 toons. But man, these people kicking me out of groups because I am NOT level 80 just kind of spoils the fun for me and maybe for other non-level 80 players, too.

I fear that this may also be the case in other non-event dungeons like COF, etc. but good thing I’ve decided not to do those dungeons yet and explore the rest of the game til I reach level 80. It’s just sad that for this limited time event, I don’t get to enjoy it as much if only I had a level 80 character, but well, the blame is on me for not rushing everything in the first place. Guess I’ll have to post the “LFG MK level 80” on the map chat next year. :/

I have found the opposite I had people asking if they can bring lower lvl alts I always said sure then I started just running my “at the time” lvl 6 necro and people took me just fine now after only doing MK it is lvl 15. Now I do notice several wanting only lvl 80s because supposedly they are speed clearing it, but every time I have done it full 5 man 80s only me and a guildy 60 and 80, and a 5 man mixed levels it only takes 10-15 minutes. I dont think it should be done faster.

Considering how easy this is these guys make me lol, “LFM 80 w/ exotics MK speed runs”.

Anet designed the event and even the whole game (to some extent) so various levels can do things together and these guys bring the WoW mentality along, way to kill the festive spirit!

I have been running the MK with anyone who wants to go and it’s still been fun ..and random loot is random.

This is giving me flashbacks of WoW and the whole “gear-score” thing.

I think it’s a shame people are excluding non-80s but from what I’ve seen they’re about 20% of the party recruiters in Lion’s Arch, tops. I understand some people wanting to do speed runs to maximize their chance at exotics during a short-term event – there are always going to be min-/maxers, but there are also a lot of friendly, helpful players who don’t mind taking a lower-level character.

I run with low lvls even lvl 3 players. With 0 MF also fine.

Good Guy Lord Yz.

I personally think that if they ask for lvl 80, that is their right. You can’t force them to play with a lower level if they don’t want to. It doesn’t mean I agree with them, but I respect their choice.

However, if they don’t say anything about levels and such, and THEN kick you because you’re not 80, that feels very wrong to me…

And if you answer to someone who looks for lvl 80 while you do not meet the requirements, you’re probably a little bit masochistic and I don’t think you have the right to complain if you get kicked. Just avoid them.

That’s about my opinion on this matter.

Greyfeld.7104:

But please, feel free to continue ranting. I know it can be therapeutic.

I’m not “ranting” at all. I’m telling you that my experience (of literally hundreds of dungeon runs, including dozens of AtM runs) is that bad level 80s can make a run a lot slower and more risky than lower-level characters played by someone with a clue.

And someone who thinks that having some characters under level 80 (in a group of 5) is going to be the determining factor for their success are not the kind of people I would ever want to group with.

Primal.9513:

I personally think that if they ask for lvl 80, that is their right.

Absolutely. Same thing if they ask for a specific class or if they ask for a “healer” or a “tank”. And it’s my right to draw some conclusions about the competence and intelligence of the people making those requests.

Account.9832:

Greyfeld.7104:

But please, feel free to continue ranting. I know it can be therapeutic.

I’m not “ranting” at all. I’m telling you that my experience (of literally hundreds of dungeon runs, including dozens of AtM runs) is that bad level 80s can make a run a lot slower and more risky than lower-level characters played by someone with a clue.

And someone who thinks that having one character under level 80 (in a group of 5) is going to be the determining factor for their success are not the kind of people I would ever want to group with.

And I’m telling you that you’ve completely missed the entire point of my post, and I’m not going to get into an argument with you when you’ve already proven that you don’t understand what context means.

The whole “no elementalists” thing really confuses me, what with all the buffs you pick up just from them switching attunements.

Account.9832:

Absolutely. Same thing if they ask for a specific class or if they ask for a “healer” or a “tank”. And it’s my right to draw some conclusions about the competence and intelligence of the people making those requests.

If you ignore them and don’t want to play with them, that’s your choice, If you want to think they are stupid, your choice too.

But if you decide to insult them based on your assumptions, that’s not what I call respect.

It’s funny. I’ve seen 80’s do very dumb things.. like not pay attention to where scarecrows were placed, not considering the plastic spiders and their damage, or just plain jumping off.

Just say “LFG MK, Any Level, type /join <yourname>”. You’ll get five people quickly.

Mario.6309:

A group of level 2’s may be able to complete the dungeon, but not with the same effectiveness and quickness as a group of 80’s.

The choice isn’t between “a group of level 2s” and “a group of level 80s”. If even the guy starting the group was level 2, I don’t think he’d have the nerve to say “only level 80s allowed”.

The choice is between a group where all characters must be level 80 and a group where some characters might be 79 or lower.

Since most players don’t even leave their starting zones until they’re level 15, chances are your average “non-80” player hanging around Lion’s Arch will be somewhere around level 47.

And a level 47 player will have a total damage output close to 75% of a level 80 with a similar build / stat balance (in fact, some stats scale better if you’re lower level, but let’s not get into the obscure mess that is GW2’s stat scaling). Which means his presence would “cost” the party, at most, one extra minute in a 10-15 minute dungeon run (25% of one fifth of the party).

On the other hand, have someone kill a scarecrow at a “bad” moment (or pull a ton of spiders and bring them to a player who is trying to rally, or some similarly dumb move), and you’ve just wasted more than that.

Of course, people playing level 47 characters can be just as dumb as people playing level 80 characters. My point isn’t that the level 47 character is better. My point is that it’s not going to be a determining (or even particularly relevant) factor, and people who think it will are displaying their own ignorance and “WoW-mindedness”.

It’s completely their right, of course. Just as it’s my right to not want to play with them.

Primal.9513:

If you ignore them and don’t want to play with them, that’s your choice, If you want to think they are stupid, your choice too.

But if you decide to insult them based on your assumptions, that’s not what I call respect.

They’re not “assumptions”. I obviously don’t go around adding people to my block list based on the possibility that they might be thinking about asking for “a tank”. I do it when they actually do it.

And why would I bother to “insult” them? I just want to avoid them.

i accept all lvls on my MK runs :P and im lvl 80 fully geared

Account.9832:

Mario.6309:

A group of level 2’s may be able to complete the dungeon, but not with the same effectiveness and quickness as a group of 80’s.

The choice isn’t between “a group of level 2s” and “a group of level 80s”. If even the guy starting the group was level 2, I don’t think he’d have the nerve to say “only level 80s allowed”.

The choice is between a group where all characters must be level 80 and a group where some characters might be 79 or lower.

Since most players don’t even leave their starting zones until they’re level 15, chances are your average “non-80” player hanging around Lion’s Arch will be somewhere around level 47.

And a level 47 player will have a total damage output close to 75% of a level 80 with a similar build / stat balance (in fact, some stats scale better if you’re lower level, but let’s not get into the obscure mess that is GW2’s stat scaling). Which means his presence would “cost” the party, at most, one extra minute in a 10-15 minute dungeon run (25% of one fifth of the party).

On the other hand, have someone kill a scarecrow at a “bad” moment (or pull a ton of spiders and bring them to a player who is trying to rally, or some similarly dumb move), and you’ve just wasted more than that.

Of course, people playing level 47 characters can be just as dumb as people playing level 80 characters. My point isn’t that the level 47 character is better. My point is that it’s not going to be a determining (or even particularly relevant) factor, and people who think it will are displaying their own ignorance and “WoW-mindedness”.

It’s completely their right, of course. Just as it’s my right to not want to play with them.

However, you can’t determine the competence of a player without seeing them play. On the other hand, you can determine a player’s level quite easily.

Since there’s a clear, definable difference in damage output between the lower and higher level characters (and thus a clear, definable difference in the total clear speed of the instance), it’s understandable that players would prefer to control the known factor.

There’s just as likely to be good and bad players at level 47 as at level 80, but since there’s no metric by which other players can make that distinction before inviting them to the group, it’s easier (and makes more sense) to just assume that the person who has more play time and better gear is going to help the group more.

This isn’t some sort of philosophical debate about which sort of players are more likely to be “better” than other players. It’s a numbers game, and it should be understood that those who care about speed runs are going to go with the choice that is statistically more likely to increase their run speed.

Besides, if you pick a level 80, and they end up playing like complete idiots, there are plenty of other level 80s to pick from. It’s not like there’s a shortage of level cap players to run the instance, that a group has to resort to picking up a lower level player if somebody doesn’t work out.

Account.9832:

Primal.9513:

If you ignore them and don’t want to play with them, that’s your choice, If you want to think they are stupid, your choice too.

But if you decide to insult them based on your assumptions, that’s not what I call respect.

They’re not “assumptions”. I obviously don’t go around adding people to my block list based on the possibility that they might be thinking about asking for “a tank”. I do it when they actually do it.

And why would I bother to “insult” them? I just want to avoid them.

What I meant about assumptions was that part:

Account.9832:

draw some conclusions about the competence and intelligence of the people making those requests.

They most likely want to “optimise” their farm (And yes, lvl 80 groups almost always farm it, they won’t just do a single run) so their objective is to get the most out of their time investment.

To do so, they want lvl 80 because a group of level 80 will most likely be faster (Yes people can make mistakes, but that is not level dependent), while the bonus from gear or traits IS level dependent.

You certainly can see the logic into that, the only way your opinion differs is wether this “optimisation” is worth it or not, and that is a subjective matter

And I wouldn’t personally go as far as drawing conclusions on someone competence or intelligence based on a subjective matter.

But that’s just me