Guild Wars 2

aliquis.9180:

Hughs.6549:

Why so many mindless fanboys ?? The people you’re hating on are the one that PAY and support arenanet with money that could be used to create new free content FOR YOU.

Gambling is programmed to make 99% of the customers unhappy, and give them a good reason to never do such a bad investment again, ever.

Gambling products are real poison for BOTH arenanet and the players, how’s that so hard to understand ?

Gambling is fun and entertaining when done RESPONSIBLY. It is up to the players to be RESPONSIBLE and only gamble the amount they are willing to lose. Gambling is NOT an INVESTMENT. If gambling is not fun for you, then stay away from it and don’t try to ruin the fun for everyone else.

that post of Kolache, even the caps fit…

Round two of the chests resulted in the same thing I expected. I opened up 23 Mad King Chests and got a bunch of random supplies that were sold on the TP for 40 silver. A few hundred candy corn of which I already had about 1,000 of those already. It was what I expected after the first fiasco which was nothing.

I simply want them to understand as a company they should be what they said they wanted to be. Upfront.

If you are putting items in state they will be rare. Even put in the chances of the drop from the chest so that people understand the rates. If people don’t buy then you know you made the rate of return too low.

The way this was handled just wasn’t proper. Will life go on sure it will. Will I get over it sure. Will they get my money again… not nearly as sure.

Keep hating on the best paying and most supportive customers, all you’re doing is shooting yourself in the foot.

Khanswrath.1032 – I never played GW1 so thank you for the information.

The only question I have in response is this…

Why does it matter if everyone else has <insert item here> if YOU enjoy it?

I just never understood the mentality of “I have it therefore to feel like a special snowflake you can’t have it.”

Guess it’s just a matter of preference and feeling unique.

P.S. I am not being condescending when I say “special snowflake”. I am just stating what I read whenever I see “If everyone else has then its not special.”

Kathmandu.2417:

1. You do complain in public, you have to take the risk that some other people find you complains silly, childish, unfair, excessive etc. and will state this in public too.
2. There are always at least to views present about everything. And your view isn’t always the correct one.

I agree with both points completely. However, I do believe that many replies still fall under the category of “troll” or “misguided fanboi”. That’s not everyone, but if it is their intent to smooth things over or help out ANET PR, then it is really having the opposite effect.

Hughs.6549:

Keep hating on the best paying and most supportive customers, all you’re doing is shooting yourself in the foot.

This is what supportive looks like: Hey I didn’t win but I am glad I supported a good company and a terrific game.

This is what supportive doesn’t look like: I didn’t win so I demand my money back and I hate Arenanet and the game.

Maxxian.3980:

Why does it matter if everyone else has <insert item here> if YOU enjoy it?

I just never understood the mentality of “I have it therefore to feel like a special snowflake you can’t have it.”

It’s a valid question but you’ll get no answer. But a lot o people ticks this way as a matter of fact.

Khanswrath.1032:

Maxxian.3980 – Anet has always had different items/costumes/hats for each Holiday event in GW1. They are simply following tradition. Every year you had a chance at getting those items (minus the costumes still could buy those through the store). The only difference I see now is that you have a chance at those items through other means (ie Gems-Keys-Opening BLC’s). To everyone that is an uproar, patience, the event still is playing out. If this event holds true to past GW1 events there will be a chance at the end of the event to turn in everything you’ve collected (that you don’t want) into a chance to obtain something that you do want. The only thing that was guaranteed was the Hat and that was only obtained by doing the final event. Also who wants a “rare” skin everyone else has?

You can still get the free hat in the trading post.

aliquis.9180:

This is what supportive doesn’t look like: I didn’t win so I demand my money back and I hate Arenanet and the game.

Did you really see a lot of posts with people demanding their money back and/or saying they were done with the entire game? I’ve read an awful lot of complaints, and I think I only saw something along those lines a couple times.

So I’d look at it more like going to your favorite restaurant and telling them that their new dish really sucks.

Maxxian.3980:

Khanswrath.1032 – I never played GW1 so thank you for the information.

The only question I have in response is this…

Why does it matter if everyone else has <insert item here> if YOU enjoy it?

I just never understood the mentality of “I have it therefore to feel like a special snowflake you can’t have it.”

Guess it’s just a matter of preference and feeling unique.

P.S. I am not being condescending when I say “special snowflake”. I am just stating what I read whenever I see “If everyone else has then its not special.”

But… they’re “entitled” to feel like special snowflakes and have stuff other people don’t. It’s not fair that Anet would allow people to pay a reasonable price for an item they want, cause then it ruins that item for other people. And those other people are “entitled” to feel that way…

Does that sound familiar? That’s what all of us who spent $$ on gems heard, even though that wasn’t the point we were trying to make.

@Maxxian Post wasn’t directed at you. I thought your post was good. I was just using it to illustrate what the other side of the coin looks like.

aliquis.9180:

Hughs.6549:

Keep hating on the best paying and most supportive customers, all you’re doing is shooting yourself in the foot.

This is what supportive looks like: Hey I didn’t win but I am glad I supported a good company and a terrific game.

This is what supportive doesn’t look like: I didn’t win so I demand my money back and I hate Arenanet and the game.

Another supportive look that you seem to have forgotten: Hey I didn’t win and spent a healthy amount of money on your advertisement. I think the way you advertised this is misleading. You should look at your actions.

Why is this supportive? Because you need to let them know that their actions have long term effects on their company. A company touts itself as being UPFRONT but has shown at several times it has not been UPFRONT.

I complain when I believe they have done something wrong so that they will hopefully do the right thing the next time.

Kolache.3964:

I agree with both points completely. However, I do believe that many replies still fall under the category of “troll” or “misguided fanboi”. That’s not everyone, but if it is their intent to smooth things over or help out ANET PR, then it is really having the opposite effect.

For sure a lot of post here right now are 100% emotional or trolling. But it’s true for both sides of the barricades

IMHO, it’s good to see some positive view on the topic on the forums. You need to hear the pro’s as well as contra’s if you want to find a better solution.

Drunken Mad King.8193:

aliquis.9180:

Hughs.6549:

Keep hating on the best paying and most supportive customers, all you’re doing is shooting yourself in the foot.

This is what supportive looks like: Hey I didn’t win but I am glad I supported a good company and a terrific game.

This is what supportive doesn’t look like: I didn’t win so I demand my money back and I hate Arenanet and the game.

Another supportive look that you seem to have forgotten: Hey I didn’t win and spent a healthy amount of money on your advertisement. I think the way you advertised this is misleading. You should look at your actions.

Why is this supportive? Because you need to let them know that their actions have long term effects on their company. A company touts itself as being UPFRONT but has shown at several times it has not been UPFRONT.

I complain when I believe they have done something wrong so that they will hopefully do the right thing the next time.

Could you let me know what they weren’t upfront about?

Kolache.3964:

aliquis.9180:

This is what supportive doesn’t look like: I didn’t win so I demand my money back and I hate Arenanet and the game.

Did you really see a lot of posts with people demanding their money back and/or saying they were done with the entire game? I’ve read an awful lot of complaints, and I think I only saw something along those lines a couple times.

So I’d look at it more like going to your favorite restaurant and telling them that their new dish really sucks.

If you don’t like a dish at a restaurant, then the thing to do is not to order it in the future. Not making a big public scene in an effort to get them to take it off the menu and prevent everyone else from being able to enjoy it in the future.

Kathmandu.2417:

For sure a lot of post here right now are 100% emotional or trolling. But it’s true for both sides of the barricades

IMHO, it’s good to see some positive view on the topic on the forums. You need to hear the pro’s as well as contra’s if you want to find a better solution.

I look at it kinda like when your girlfriend is really pissed about something… the last thing you want to do is tell her to “calm down” or tell her that she is over-reacting (even if it is true). Unless of course you want to deliberately piss her off

aliquis.9180

This is what supportive looks like: Hey I didn’t win but I am glad I supported a good company and a terrific game.

This is what supportive doesn’t look like: I didn’t win so I demand my money back and I hate Arenanet and the game.

Do you really believe that players want to throw hundreds of $$$$ at arenanet’s face without even getting one interesting infinitely generated item ?

Being supportive doesn’t mean being stupid. It’s not charity, it’s being supportive THROUGH a sale

Any healthy business should be WIN-WIN, not 0.0000000001% chance win and 99.9% chance to make a donation.

Look at the long term consequences bro

aliquis.9180:

Kolache.3964:

aliquis.9180:

This is what supportive doesn’t look like: I didn’t win so I demand my money back and I hate Arenanet and the game.

Did you really see a lot of posts with people demanding their money back and/or saying they were done with the entire game? I’ve read an awful lot of complaints, and I think I only saw something along those lines a couple times.

So I’d look at it more like going to your favorite restaurant and telling them that their new dish really sucks.

If you don’t like a dish at a restaurant, then the thing to do is not to order it in the future. Not making a big public scene in an effort to get them to take it off the menu and prevent everyone else from being able to enjoy it in the future.

Well said. Especially since they never made any promises. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2012-10-22#Black_Lion_Chest_Changes

If people would just notice it says “chance”. They never promised everybody who opened chests anything. Just a chance for items. Gamblers who gamble and then complain when they don’t win need to seek help.

aliquis.9180:

If you don’t like a dish at a restaurant, then the thing to do is not to order it in the future. Not making a big public scene in an effort to get them to take it off the menu and prevent everyone else from being able to enjoy it in the future.

I disagree. If you think it truly sucks, you let them know and don’t order it in the future. If enough people feel the same way, they know not to waste a good impression on would-be future customers (and you often get a free different meal, but that’s besides the point).

As for making a scene in public… this is an internet forum for feedback on the event. This is where this kinda stuff is supposed to go.

Basic Business Practices:

People who spent money have the loudest voice in this. They spent the money. Business’ rely on repeat business to generate income. Therefore, people who have bought that product have the loudest say. Period. It’s how business works.

Stop telling those people that complaining isn’t right. That’s how things get fixed. Period. If nobody complained, they would think all was right with the world. Which it quite obviously isn’t.

buzzkapow.8465:

Basic Business Practices:

People who spent money have the loudest voice in this. They spent the money. Business’ rely on repeat business to generate income. Therefore, people who have bought that product have the loudest say. Period. It’s how business works.

Stop telling those people that complaining isn’t right. That’s how things get fixed. Period. If nobody complained, they would think all was right with the world. Which it quite obviously isn’t.

Nothing is broken… I spent $100 this event. I threw maybe $15 into keys. Because that is what I limited myself on a gamble. I didn’t get anything. I tried my second chances with the mad king chests. I got nothing. Moving on, I bought my costumes and some random other stuff.

I’m not going to cry or feel pity for people that are. Nobody told them to gamble hundreds of dollars. It was described as a “chance” to get limited time skins. They chose to throw hundreds of dollars at a “chance”. Every day people play the lottery. People don’t always win, and when they do its only a tiny percentage of people who do. Would we be defending those people if they came out and formed a giant lynch mob because they didn’t win the lottery even though they’ve thrown hundreds of dollars into it?

Dinks.2478:

buzzkapow.8465:

Basic Business Practices:

People who spent money have the loudest voice in this. They spent the money. Business’ rely on repeat business to generate income. Therefore, people who have bought that product have the loudest say. Period. It’s how business works.

Stop telling those people that complaining isn’t right. That’s how things get fixed. Period. If nobody complained, they would think all was right with the world. Which it quite obviously isn’t.

Nothing is broken… I spent $100 this event. I threw maybe $15 into keys. Because that is what I limited myself on a gamble. I didn’t get anything. I tried my second chances with the mad king chests. I got nothing. Moving on, I bought my costumes and some random other stuff.

I’m not going to cry or feel pity for people that are. Nobody told them to gamble hundreds of dollars. It was described as a “chance” to get limited time skins. They chose to throw hundreds of dollars at a “chance”. Every day people play the lottery. People don’t always win, and when they do its only a tiny percentage of people who do. Would we be defending those people if they came out and formed a giant lynch mob because they didn’t win the lottery even though they’ve thrown hundreds of dollars into it?

the reason any lottery game is legally obliged to mention the winning odds, is exactly because otherwise they would get loads of complaints from people buying plenty of tickets without winning anything.

Just saying ‘there is a chance’ is misleading in legal terms. Precise odds must be informed with any game of chance, by law.

The law is on the side of that exact lynching mob you describe…

Annd than we’re not even discussing the major issue of breaking the trust your customers have when announcing fun items for an event.
People expected Anet to be generous because it was an event, simple as that. It was all about ‘fun’ in the end, Anet was the company that would not fall to the money grabbing other B2P and F2P used.

Dinks.2478:

buzzkapow.8465:

Basic Business Practices:

People who spent money have the loudest voice in this. They spent the money. Business’ rely on repeat business to generate income. Therefore, people who have bought that product have the loudest say. Period. It’s how business works.

Stop telling those people that complaining isn’t right. That’s how things get fixed. Period. If nobody complained, they would think all was right with the world. Which it quite obviously isn’t.

Nothing is broken… I spent $100 this event. I threw maybe $15 into keys. Because that is what I limited myself on a gamble. I didn’t get anything. I tried my second chances with the mad king chests. I got nothing. Moving on, I bought my costumes and some random other stuff.

I’m not going to cry or feel pity for people that are. Nobody told them to gamble hundreds of dollars. It was described as a “chance” to get limited time skins. They chose to throw hundreds of dollars at a “chance”. Every day people play the lottery. People don’t always win, and when they do its only a tiny percentage of people who do. Would we be defending those people if they came out and formed a giant lynch mob because they didn’t win the lottery even though they’ve thrown hundreds of dollars into it?

You bought gems, you bought keys. Your feedback is exactly what ArenaNet wants. In this case “I thought it was very reasonable” and be done. There’s no reason to take it further than that.

Once again, this isn’t a lottery. It’s a game, with chance items. Big difference. Some folks put money into that chance system (doesn’t matter how much, cause that’s their choice). Those people are entitled to their feelings on the matter, regardless of whether you or I think they’re right. They have the right to give their feedback to ArenaNet. They have the right to show displeasure, regardless of whether you think it’s childish/foolish/stupid or not.

I am defending a consumer’s right to give feedback without feeling Vilified for it. The fact that the forums are the way to send ArenaNet feedback shouldn’t result in anybody complaining about a service being bullied over the internet. I wouldn’t allow it in my store, I wouldn’t allow it in my restaurant, and i wouldn’t allow it in my game.

buzzkapow.8465:

Dinks.2478:

buzzkapow.8465:

Basic Business Practices:

People who spent money have the loudest voice in this. They spent the money. Business’ rely on repeat business to generate income. Therefore, people who have bought that product have the loudest say. Period. It’s how business works.

Stop telling those people that complaining isn’t right. That’s how things get fixed. Period. If nobody complained, they would think all was right with the world. Which it quite obviously isn’t.

Nothing is broken… I spent $100 this event. I threw maybe $15 into keys. Because that is what I limited myself on a gamble. I didn’t get anything. I tried my second chances with the mad king chests. I got nothing. Moving on, I bought my costumes and some random other stuff.

I’m not going to cry or feel pity for people that are. Nobody told them to gamble hundreds of dollars. It was described as a “chance” to get limited time skins. They chose to throw hundreds of dollars at a “chance”. Every day people play the lottery. People don’t always win, and when they do its only a tiny percentage of people who do. Would we be defending those people if they came out and formed a giant lynch mob because they didn’t win the lottery even though they’ve thrown hundreds of dollars into it?

You bought gems, you bought keys. Your feedback is exactly what ArenaNet wants. In this case “I thought it was very reasonable” and be done. There’s no reason to take it further than that.

Once again, this isn’t a lottery. It’s a game, with chance items. Big difference. Some folks put money into that chance system (doesn’t matter how much, cause that’s their choice). Those people are entitled to their feelings on the matter, regardless of whether you or I think they’re right. They have the right to give their feedback to ArenaNet. They have the right to show displeasure, regardless of whether you think it’s childish/foolish/stupid or not.

I am defending a consumer’s right to give feedback without feeling Vilified for it. The fact that the forums are the way to send ArenaNet feedback shouldn’t result in anybody complaining about a service being bullied over the internet. I wouldn’t allow it in my store, I wouldn’t allow it in my restaurant, and i wouldn’t allow it in my game.

You’re telling me, you believe nobody would call somebody an idiot if they got exactly what they paid for and still complained?

I don’t believe you have the right to call anybody an idiot, anywhere. We all do it from time to time, but that doesn’t make it right.

Fact is, enough people have complained that they feel they didn’t get what they paid for.

It’s not up to us to judge that. Let’s try this:

You’re in a shoes store, looking at shoes. A guy comes in to talk to the manager regarding a problem with his shoes. The guy says “Hey, these shoes i bought really suck outside. The guy who sold them to me told me they’d probably be good for that. And thinking that he was a shoes salesman, i trusted him.”

Would you look at that guy and say “Hey man! He said they’d probably be good for that. PROBABLY, dude! You’re stupid.” I’m gonna say no. Because, like most people willing to throw insults out over the internet, you most likely don’t have the cojones to say it in real life. (my bad, i made an assumption)

Most shoe stores won’t sell you a shoe on the promise of “probably”. But, sometimes, when you go to buy stuff, the person selling it to you isn’t the best person to be selling it. They don’t know how to market it properly, they don’t know the designs behind it, what it’s meant for etc.. And if the guy bought it on good faith that it’s a reputable store, was it his fault for trusting? Yeah. Is that guy gonna go back to that store? No. Is the store manager gonna do his best to ensure that customer walks out happy? Yeah. Is the manager gonna listen to you instead of that customer? Not if he’s good at his job.

It’s not my right to call anybody anything. I still call people names all the time. But it’s not up to me to decide if they got what they paid for. It’s up to the company, and they have to hear back from those customers first. So before you go making a decision for Anet, let them hear the feedback.

The shoe store thing is a little different. He didn’t get what he was promised. And has every right to complain about it. Anet never promised everybody anything from those chests. They promised them a chance at something from those chests. Then they even gave people a second chance with the mad king chests.

Dinks.2478:

The shoe store thing is a little different. He didn’t get what he was promised. And has every right to complain about it. Anet never promised everybody anything from those chests. They promised them a chance at something from those chests. Then they even gave people a second chance with the mad king chests.

Dinks, i answered that by explaining how each gambling or lottery venue is legally obliged to list the odds.
Just to be sure that no angry mob would come out shouting that they didn’t get what they expected.

I explained how the law would be on the side of the angry mob.

You haven’t answered that at all, yet you continue to use the same argument even though i proved it wrong.

He did get what he was promised. He was told the shoes would probably (probably is another word for chance) work outside.

If i was to go buy a hockey stick, and they sold it to me on the premise that it had a statistical probability (chance) of improving the power in my slapshot, yet i felt it didn’t help at all. Does that make me an idiot? Does that give another customer in the store the right to call me an idiot? No, it gives me the right to voice my displeasure at the purchase i made. And that’s how hockey sticks are sold. And yes, I would get a refund provided the stick was intact.

I’m not even gonna argue about the advertising, cause that’s what you’re trying to make it. I’m arguing a customer’s right to complain without being hassled for it. Just like the people who opened those chests, you have a choice. Read the feedback, or don’t. Posting anything about a person’s intelligence is not needed, wanted, or necessary in any fashion. All it does is make you feel better about yourself. And that, my friend, is what bullies do. They go after people they perceive a flaw in to make themselves feel better.

aliquis.9180:

If you don’t like a dish at a restaurant, then the thing to do is not to order it in the future. Not making a big public scene in an effort to get them to take it off the menu and prevent everyone else from being able to enjoy it in the future.

I don’t see anyone asking for the chests to be removed (taking them off the menu), i see a lot of people simply not satisfied with them (be it with skin drop rate and/or even if the skins didn’t exist in them) and want them to be improved.

PS.
In the UK, if your not satisfied with a dish from a resturant (not as advertised, not satisfied, don’t think you got your moneys worth etc) you can actully refuse to pay the full price for it and it’s up to the resturant to persue you for the rest (court etc). You can’t be arrested for doing this as it’s a legal right we have as consumers.

If only this applied to chests, i got them and am simply not satisfied with what i got and i certainly don’t think i got my moneys worth, i’d happily pay for them BUT certainly not what i was charged (unfortunatly with chests you pay 1st).

Kimbald.2697:

Dinks.2478:

The shoe store thing is a little different. He didn’t get what he was promised. And has every right to complain about it. Anet never promised everybody anything from those chests. They promised them a chance at something from those chests. Then they even gave people a second chance with the mad king chests.

Dinks, i answered that by explaining how each gambling or lottery venue is legally obliged to list the odds.
Just to be sure that no angry mob would come out shouting that they didn’t get what they expected.

I explained how the law would be on the side of the angry mob.

You haven’t answered that at all, yet you continue to use the same argument even though i proved it wrong.

You didn’t prove anything wrong. They’re not a casino. They don’t have to live up to a casinos regulations. The gamble aspect can be played with in game currency. Is Anet require to list the odds of a mob dropping a bag and then the odds of that bag having jute? Nope, and since keys are just as easily obtainable by gold as they are real money. The real money aspect of the gamble is a choice.

MajorMelchett.6042:

aliquis.9180:

If you don’t like a dish at a restaurant, then the thing to do is not to order it in the future. Not making a big public scene in an effort to get them to take it off the menu and prevent everyone else from being able to enjoy it in the future.

I don’t see anyone asking for the chests to be removed (taking them off the menu), i see a lot of people simply not satisfied with them (be it with skin drop rate and/or even if the skins didn’t exist in them) and want them to be improved.

PS.
In the UK, if your not satisfied with a dish from a resturant (not as advertised, not satisfied, don’t think you got your moneys worth etc) you can actully refuse to pay the full price for it and it’s up to the resturant to persue you for the rest (court etc). You can’t be arrested for doing this as it’s a legal right we have as consumers.

If only this applied to chests, i got them and am simply not satisfied with what i got and i certainly don’t think i got my moneys worth, i’d happily pay for them BUT certainly not what i was charged (unfortunatly with chests you pay 1st).

There have been plenty of posts demanding that the chests be removed.

You can refuse to pay in a restaurant IF you didn’t get what was advertised. Because that is a breach of contract. The other reasons you stated may result in your getting charged with theft.

Dinks.2478:

Drunken Mad King.8193:

aliquis.9180:

Hughs.6549:

Keep hating on the best paying and most supportive customers, all you’re doing is shooting yourself in the foot.

This is what supportive looks like: Hey I didn’t win but I am glad I supported a good company and a terrific game.

This is what supportive doesn’t look like: I didn’t win so I demand my money back and I hate Arenanet and the game.

Another supportive look that you seem to have forgotten: Hey I didn’t win and spent a healthy amount of money on your advertisement. I think the way you advertised this is misleading. You should look at your actions.

Why is this supportive? Because you need to let them know that their actions have long term effects on their company. A company touts itself as being UPFRONT but has shown at several times it has not been UPFRONT.

I complain when I believe they have done something wrong so that they will hopefully do the right thing the next time.

Could you let me know what they weren’t upfront about?

They stated a chance. Not stating in the emails or anywhere on the landing page for the keys did it state the skins and holiday items that were added to the chests were RARE. By using general statements of chance that leads a person to believe there is a reasonable rate of drop. Using the excuse that you got other items isn’t valid as if the person wanted those items they would have bought keys before the event to get random stuff. These keys were touted because the chests had items added for halloween. Based on the drop rate of items we get from them most people would assume they would have had rates of drops similar to things like the black lion salvage kits, or fine trans gems, etc.

Instead you can have people open 100-200 chests and not get a skin.

Go see Mc Donalds when they have a promotion they list chances on anything from a drink all the way up to the grand prize. That’s upfront.

buzzkapow.8465:

He did get what he was promised. He was told the shoes would probably (probably is another word for chance) work outside.

try this in real life please.
Giving this very argument in such cases.

I can guarantee that a shoe shop who would give your argument in their defense, would not only go down very fast. It would even face several law suits from customers.
It’s not certain they would lose each law suit, but they sure would have ruined their reputation in the business.

and what’s with all the analogies?
(not just yours of course)

your own example of the hockey stick improving your shot is a typical analogy for a Pay to win game.
It would only fit if the skins gave stats too.

Drunken Mad King.8193:

Dinks.2478:

Drunken Mad King.8193:

aliquis.9180:

Hughs.6549:

Keep hating on the best paying and most supportive customers, all you’re doing is shooting yourself in the foot.

This is what supportive looks like: Hey I didn’t win but I am glad I supported a good company and a terrific game.

This is what supportive doesn’t look like: I didn’t win so I demand my money back and I hate Arenanet and the game.

Another supportive look that you seem to have forgotten: Hey I didn’t win and spent a healthy amount of money on your advertisement. I think the way you advertised this is misleading. You should look at your actions.

Why is this supportive? Because you need to let them know that their actions have long term effects on their company. A company touts itself as being UPFRONT but has shown at several times it has not been UPFRONT.

I complain when I believe they have done something wrong so that they will hopefully do the right thing the next time.

Could you let me know what they weren’t upfront about?

They stated a chance. Not stating in the emails or anywhere on the landing page for the keys did it state the skins and holiday items that were added to the chests were RARE. By using general statements of chance that leads a person to believe there is a reasonable rate of drop. Using the excuse that you got other items isn’t valid as if the person wanted those items they would have bought keys before the event to get random stuff. These keys were touted because the chests had items added for halloween. Based on the drop rate of items we get from them most people would assume they would have had rates of drops similar to things like the black lion salvage kits, or fine trans gems, etc.

Instead you can have people open 100-200 chests and not get a skin.

Go see Mc Donalds when they have a promotion they list chances on anything from a drink all the way up to the grand prize. That’s upfront.

And yet a lot of others opened 10-15 chests and got items. It was chance that gave them these items. Its called a chance for a reason. Having to state rare next to chance is just redundant when the chest drops so many different items.

aliquis.9180:

There have been plenty of posts demanding that the chests be removed.

You can refuse to pay in a restaurant IF you didn’t get what was advertised. Because that is a breach of contract. The other reasons you stated may result in your getting charged with theft.

Hmm, must have missed those “plenty” i’ve hardly see any state that.

Also, i’m actully correct on the other reasons i stated and you can’t be changed with theft as long as you pay something/or regected the meal – which i did state (but this is more of a PM thing as i’d take up a lot of room posting the actual rules regarding this).

This is precisely why I haven’t spent another dime on this game, I totally saw this coming. A-nets business practices repulse me. Unless they change their stance on these kinds of things I will continue to not spend any money, due to not wanting to support this kind of business practice, and also the consistent bugs in the game just not being fixed after months. Once these things, if ever, are remedied then I will be happy to support them.

Dinks.2478:

Drunken Mad King.8193:

Dinks.2478:

Drunken Mad King.8193:

aliquis.9180:

Hughs.6549:

Keep hating on the best paying and most supportive customers, all you’re doing is shooting yourself in the foot.

This is what supportive looks like: Hey I didn’t win but I am glad I supported a good company and a terrific game.

This is what supportive doesn’t look like: I didn’t win so I demand my money back and I hate Arenanet and the game.

Another supportive look that you seem to have forgotten: Hey I didn’t win and spent a healthy amount of money on your advertisement. I think the way you advertised this is misleading. You should look at your actions.

Why is this supportive? Because you need to let them know that their actions have long term effects on their company. A company touts itself as being UPFRONT but has shown at several times it has not been UPFRONT.

I complain when I believe they have done something wrong so that they will hopefully do the right thing the next time.

Could you let me know what they weren’t upfront about?

They stated a chance. Not stating in the emails or anywhere on the landing page for the keys did it state the skins and holiday items that were added to the chests were RARE. By using general statements of chance that leads a person to believe there is a reasonable rate of drop. Using the excuse that you got other items isn’t valid as if the person wanted those items they would have bought keys before the event to get random stuff. These keys were touted because the chests had items added for halloween. Based on the drop rate of items we get from them most people would assume they would have had rates of drops similar to things like the black lion salvage kits, or fine trans gems, etc.

Instead you can have people open 100-200 chests and not get a skin.

Go see Mc Donalds when they have a promotion they list chances on anything from a drink all the way up to the grand prize. That’s upfront.

And yet a lot of others opened 10-15 chests and got items. It was chance that gave them these items. Its called a chance for a reason. Having to state rare next to chance is just redundant when the chest drops so many different items.

Dinks,
They said you have a chance of winning 1 of 6 skins… that could easily be construed as getting one skin out of the 6 when you open any given chest… not nothing at all. The fact that it fooled this many people proves that it was not well written REGARDLESS if it was in fact written CORRECTLY. And if your like me and just saw the “Discover the secrets of the black lion chest” in game… then the word chance was never even mentioned. Are you trying to tell me that I need to go look at websites and forums every time they advertise something in game because it can not be trusted? Because if you tell me that I need to do research before I make a purchase… that says something VERY bad about the company selling it. Anet played off of peoples trust. Period.

I’d also like to add, where i live, if i have to complain about the meal at a restaurant, rarely will there be a cheque to ask for. The best customer service i ever got? At a restaurant for a going away party for a co-worker, my food arrived 5 mins behind everybody else’s. No biggie to me. The MANAGER of the restaurant came over to explain that there would be no bill for my meal, as I wasn’t able to begin eating at the EXACT same time as everybody else. I never complained, nor would I. But I know lots of people who’ve gone there on my recommendation, simply because the service was head and shoulders above.

Dinks.2478:

Kimbald.2697:

Dinks.2478:

The shoe store thing is a little different. He didn’t get what he was promised. And has every right to complain about it. Anet never promised everybody anything from those chests. They promised them a chance at something from those chests. Then they even gave people a second chance with the mad king chests.

Dinks, i answered that by explaining how each gambling or lottery venue is legally obliged to list the odds.
Just to be sure that no angry mob would come out shouting that they didn’t get what they expected.

I explained how the law would be on the side of the angry mob.

You haven’t answered that at all, yet you continue to use the same argument even though i proved it wrong.

You didn’t prove anything wrong. They’re not a casino. They don’t have to live up to a casinos regulations. The gamble aspect can be played with in game currency. Is Anet require to list the odds of a mob dropping a bag and then the odds of that bag having jute? Nope, and since keys are just as easily obtainable by gold as they are real money. The real money aspect of the gamble is a choice.

suddenly it’s not completely gambling anymore, isn’t it…
Nice turn.

Mobs dropping loot is not bought with real money, useless comparison.

i’ll tell you the only reason why it isn’t legally gambling:

because the winnings can not be turned into real money with the organiser of the game itself.

One very important thing you fail to acknowledge, and that is that this whole thing is not about what they could or could not do legally.
It’s about how you treat your customers, those gamers willing to spend real money.

If you sell them something for an event, announcing a chance on holliday gifts, than people expect them to be a bit more generous, like with all holliday gifts.

This was about trust in Arenanet to be different than the rest of the B2P and F2P games out there.
And they weren’t.
Giving such low droprates on event items wasn’t expected by most. And exactly that is seen as being money hungry like all those other companies out there.

Not to mention this is a halloween event so what would be the harm in lots of people running around in (shock and surprise!!!) halloween skinned weapons?? Would I expect them to make this a low drop as it simply was something fun?

They didn’t state their intention on making this rare so therefor the advertisement was misleading.

NightShadow.1429:

No… the shoulders, the daggers and the rifle skin are all going for less then 2g… the only ones above that are the ghastly shield, greatsaw and the scythe.

What’s this guy smoking?

SHOW ME how you get the shoulders, dagger and rifle for under 2g…

Z

SDChargers.8401:

Dinks.2478:

Drunken Mad King.8193:

Dinks.2478:

Drunken Mad King.8193:

aliquis.9180:

Hughs.6549:

Keep hating on the best paying and most supportive customers, all you’re doing is shooting yourself in the foot.

This is what supportive looks like: Hey I didn’t win but I am glad I supported a good company and a terrific game.

This is what supportive doesn’t look like: I didn’t win so I demand my money back and I hate Arenanet and the game.

Another supportive look that you seem to have forgotten: Hey I didn’t win and spent a healthy amount of money on your advertisement. I think the way you advertised this is misleading. You should look at your actions.

Why is this supportive? Because you need to let them know that their actions have long term effects on their company. A company touts itself as being UPFRONT but has shown at several times it has not been UPFRONT.

I complain when I believe they have done something wrong so that they will hopefully do the right thing the next time.

Could you let me know what they weren’t upfront about?

They stated a chance. Not stating in the emails or anywhere on the landing page for the keys did it state the skins and holiday items that were added to the chests were RARE. By using general statements of chance that leads a person to believe there is a reasonable rate of drop. Using the excuse that you got other items isn’t valid as if the person wanted those items they would have bought keys before the event to get random stuff. These keys were touted because the chests had items added for halloween. Based on the drop rate of items we get from them most people would assume they would have had rates of drops similar to things like the black lion salvage kits, or fine trans gems, etc.

Instead you can have people open 100-200 chests and not get a skin.

Go see Mc Donalds when they have a promotion they list chances on anything from a drink all the way up to the grand prize. That’s upfront.

And yet a lot of others opened 10-15 chests and got items. It was chance that gave them these items. Its called a chance for a reason. Having to state rare next to chance is just redundant when the chest drops so many different items.

Dinks,
They said you have a chance of winning 1 of 6 skins… that could easily be construed as getting one skin out of the 6 when you open any given chest… not nothing at all. The fact that it fooled this many people proves that it was not well written REGARDLESS if it was in fact written CORRECTLY. And if your like me and just saw the “Discover the secrets of the black lion chest” in game… then the word chance was never even mentioned. Are you trying to tell me that I need to go look at websites and forums every time they advertise something in game because it can not be trusted? Because if you tell me that I need to do research before I make a purchase… that says something VERY bad about the company selling it. Anet played off of peoples trust. Period.

Discover the secrets of the black lion chests has been in game since launch. It had nothing to do with the Halloween event…

Dinks.2478:

SDChargers.8401:

Dinks.2478:

Drunken Mad King.8193:

Dinks.2478:

Drunken Mad King.8193:

aliquis.9180:

Hughs.6549:

Keep hating on the best paying and most supportive customers, all you’re doing is shooting yourself in the foot.

This is what supportive looks like: Hey I didn’t win but I am glad I supported a good company and a terrific game.

This is what supportive doesn’t look like: I didn’t win so I demand my money back and I hate Arenanet and the game.

Another supportive look that you seem to have forgotten: Hey I didn’t win and spent a healthy amount of money on your advertisement. I think the way you advertised this is misleading. You should look at your actions.

Why is this supportive? Because you need to let them know that their actions have long term effects on their company. A company touts itself as being UPFRONT but has shown at several times it has not been UPFRONT.

I complain when I believe they have done something wrong so that they will hopefully do the right thing the next time.

Could you let me know what they weren’t upfront about?

They stated a chance. Not stating in the emails or anywhere on the landing page for the keys did it state the skins and holiday items that were added to the chests were RARE. By using general statements of chance that leads a person to believe there is a reasonable rate of drop. Using the excuse that you got other items isn’t valid as if the person wanted those items they would have bought keys before the event to get random stuff. These keys were touted because the chests had items added for halloween. Based on the drop rate of items we get from them most people would assume they would have had rates of drops similar to things like the black lion salvage kits, or fine trans gems, etc.

Instead you can have people open 100-200 chests and not get a skin.

Go see Mc Donalds when they have a promotion they list chances on anything from a drink all the way up to the grand prize. That’s upfront.

And yet a lot of others opened 10-15 chests and got items. It was chance that gave them these items. Its called a chance for a reason. Having to state rare next to chance is just redundant when the chest drops so many different items.

Dinks,
They said you have a chance of winning 1 of 6 skins… that could easily be construed as getting one skin out of the 6 when you open any given chest… not nothing at all. The fact that it fooled this many people proves that it was not well written REGARDLESS if it was in fact written CORRECTLY. And if your like me and just saw the “Discover the secrets of the black lion chest” in game… then the word chance was never even mentioned. Are you trying to tell me that I need to go look at websites and forums every time they advertise something in game because it can not be trusted? Because if you tell me that I need to do research before I make a purchase… that says something VERY bad about the company selling it. Anet played off of peoples trust. Period.

Discover the secrets of the black lion chests has been in game since launch. It had nothing to do with the Halloween event…

When an event is announced, with such BIG emphasis on the goodies you can win from the chests, than it’s understandable that people expect something in the line of holliday gifts.
Meaning that they expected the normal low droprate to be higher for the event items.

Nowhere was that written of course, but nowhere was it announced that the items would even be rare. Just ‘unique’ and that there was a ‘chance’ of winning them.

No one had any proof that Anet would actually be generous for their event.

All they had was their manifesto, their promises never to fall to the low standards or other F2P and B2p games, and the way they handled this in their GW1 shop.

And of course on the other side there was the known low droprate of the BLC chests so far.

Don’t take my word for it, but seeing the recent uproar: do you think people feel that Anet misused their trust in this or not.

Wheter you, or me, think that they did anything wrong or not, is irrelevant.
But tell me: what do the people who bought the chests during the event think?
Do you have any doubt about that one?

It is about trust.
That’s the bottom line, all the rest is bickering over details.

Anet heard their cries and gave them all second chances with the mad king chests. By then they should have understood the odds. They played again, and continued to cry when those didn’t pan out. How can you say this isn’t people with entitlement issues?

Zoid.2568:

Tyrick.9867:

Zoid.2568:

IKR. What’s the purpose of an event if you don’t get any rewards? Where’s the fun and excitement?

Memoire questline was fun, the brawl is okay….but the lack of rewards is disappointing. The shield and staff you can craft is probably the most disappointing in this event, the shortbow looks awesome. I play as a warrior and i don’t really have any use for a shortbow.

GG WP ArenaNet, you won the “son, i’m disappointed” title of the year.

JESUS CHRIST THE EVENT ISN’T OVER STOP COMPLAINING. THERE ARE THREE PARTS LEFT.

Sorry for caps but it seems people just aren’t getting it. It is extremely frustrating.

Where/When have ArenaNet said that the other acts will have more rewards that doesn’t include buying gems for 100$?

I myself haven’t paid gems for this Halloween event because i know it’s a lottery, you have to either spend 20$ or 100$. If it was: pay 20$ get a unique skin. I would have bought it.

A reasonable person would assume that in a 4 part event they aren’t going to jsut give out the goodies on day one. Common sense.

RNG while forking out real money is fine.
I experience couple of F2P mmo that practices this.
However, they should’ve handled it better.

1) The misc loots in “Black Lion Chests” are punishing instead of rewarding. After I tried few chests, I can’t stand it anymore how it takes up my precious inventory slots. The loots are terrible too. RNG real-money gambling should learn from mmo like Granado Espada (Asia). They’re fun, rewarding and players doesn’t mind spending hundreds of dollars. They have many tier prizes instead of just top prize and junks. I suggest the dev to do some research on the game I mentioned to pick up some good elements dealing with RNG + money = Fun.

2) Players shouldn’t complain too much about the chests because it’s a personal choice. The chests gambling to get super rare exclusive skins are good but I agree that they should’ve handled it better. I doubt they would change it at the middle of the event because it won’t be fair towards players who achieve/bought the exclusive weapon skins beforehand. Let them improve. It’s their first attempt on this.

3) Players should’ve anticipate that there will be RNG gambling with money because this is a F2P mmo. They need money to supply their servers, workers and make expansions. The servers itself requires millions of dollars per year (from what I heard to operate any standard mmo).

4) I hope they make improvements to make players feel addicted to play the game (PVE) instead of addicted to pay for the game. It’s because it won’t last. Once players are bitten, twice they will shy. They should add some serious improvements for character progressions in PVE. It does not have to be gear progression. Cosmetic gear progressions are proved to be weak. There should be some progression that make plays have goals and constantly knows what to work for everytime they log in. It should feel like a rpg instead of an arcade fixed character thrown into the open-world of mmo.

Dinks.2478:

Anet heard their cries and gave them all second chances with the mad king chests. By then they should have understood the odds. They played again, and continued to cry when those didn’t pan out. How can you say this isn’t people with entitlement issues?

The first issue was with having low odds when expecting something better since it was a holliday, as i explained.

When Anet decided to ‘make up’ for their mistake by creating the Mad King’s chests, I suppose many assumed that they were making up for the low odds… by giving better odds.
They didn’t, they just gave them a few more lottery tickets with the same odds apparantly.

I don’t see being upset about that as entitlement.
I see it as feeling cheated because you trusted the same fox twice.

I’m not here to argue if low droprates on holliday events are justified or not.
Basically I’m saying that it was extremely bad and dubious business to go about things the way they did.

I don’t understand why you try to pull out so many arguments, not many relevant, just to support your beloved game?
Do you think you help Arenanet by insulting their displeased customers?
Do you think you help them by trying to shut the negative feedback up?

[insert sneer at Dinks that I edited out. Maybe he desrves it, but I should know better than to do that ]

Since there is so much activity on the forum that this has fallen off the first page again in less than 4 hours, I’ll post a link here to see if someone official might have a better chance of seeing and responding to it. It’s a question thread regarding crafting MKC after the holiday is over:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/halloween/Mystic-Forge-and-the-Mad-King-Chest/

Dinks.2478:

Anet heard their cries and gave them all second chances with the mad king chests. By then they should have understood the odds. They played again, and continued to cry when those didn’t pan out. How can you say this isn’t people with entitlement issues?

I guess I agree that people should not have expected anything good after the first round of awful, but that isn’t really anything to brag about. You’re still razzing people who got nothing either time for acting “entitled”?

Fill one hand with “chances” and kitten in the other, then see which one fills up first. I’m going to flip a quarter. If it lands on heads I’m going to mail you $1000. Sorry, it landed on tails (you can take my word for it). I hope you feel grateful for my intentions.

@Kimbald.2697 If you read my other posts on these forums, I’m far from the type of person to blindly defend anet. I just got off a forum suspension for quite the opposite.

However I just disagree with these people. I think they’re use to other games where things are handed to you. I understand what you think their expectations were, I don’t understand their responses. If they thought they were going to be given these items with such good odds. Why did they feel the need to spend hundreds of dollars on keys before hand?

They got better odds, when they were given extra chests to try to open. Even if the technical odds remained the same the act of opening extra free chests gave them better odds.

Is there any need to make halloween weapons special rare and unique ones instead of something we all can enjoy? Isnt the point of legendaries to make the owners special snowflakes? I do beliebe that applying the same politic to seasonal events is kitten It should be fun for everyone not for just some people that can afford 200g in mats.