Guild Wars 2

Hear me out folks. I’m not here to spread the hate, or complain about being on the receiving end of it. But I hope you will engage in this discussion for a moment to wonder at how a community that is otherwise very friendly and helpful quickly degenerates into hate speech, bullying and isolation of someone that is different.

First a quick note that this is not about the puzzle design of the Clock Tower. I do not agree with a lot of the hate on the puzzle design; I sip my tea during the wait times and the load sequence; I LOVE the voice acting of the Mad King and it does not get old for me; I enjoy the rush of the crowd at the beginning of the race etc. Alas, it just so happens that the design is the perfect storm for stimulating the hatred of large (Mass Challenged? ;-) player characters. Allow me to elaborate.

It’s been a while since I have seen a game stir up so much hate. I have a Norn toon -here’s the part where you say “ahh.. now I know where this is going.” But maybe you don’t.

(For those of you that have not played the Clock Tower – it is a jumping puzzle. Norn and Char characters are big, as you know, and they get in people’s line of sight, thus causing spitting, fuming and generally unsavory behavior).

My own experience with this fun and well-designed puzzle is a two sided coin. On the one hand, I really enjoy the puzzle itself. But I have never completed it; haven’t even made it to the first chest. Not because I wasn’t having fun. Not because I suck. I was routinely the 2nd or 3rd last to fall in the 10 or so times I tried it (and sometimes I fell in first). But because on the other side of the coin, I found myself on the receiving end of several hateful remarks from several other players. Eventually, I simply left the game, my head held high that I had not lashed back with mean-spirited comments of my own, but disappointed that I would not likely bother to take part in this piece of the game again.

I’ve read a couple other posts on this forum and elsewhere from people with Chars (or Norns) that have said they reveled in that bubbling pot of poison and hate and had even more fun because others were getting their breeches in a knot. Sorry – that’s just not me. Not because I’m a wus, but because I love playing games, and I don’t want to play if I’m spoiling someone else’s fun. Even if they act like venomous bullies. Plus, there’s just too much else to do that’s fun, so why waste my time?

It’s great that there’s so much else to do, and I can avoid the hate. But why is it there in the first place? Aren’t games supposed to put players and competitors on even ground? Aren’t they supposed to hide our true identities (if we wish) and allow us to pretend to be someone else – an escape from the harshness of the real world? Aren’t they supposed to remove race, height, weight and thickness of glasses from the equation?

Certainly, players will always make themselves stand out, no matter how balanced the game is. They can act out and sometimes that removes the neutrality and causes people to focus attention on them (either good or bad). But that’s not what I’m experiencing here. What I am experiencing is a gross imbalance in the game design. And this imbalance has two effects. One – it adds wonderful diversity. And through this diversity it adds realism and immersion. I love being a massive Norn standing next to a teenie weenie Asura. But the second effect is that it sets us apart as different and basically, as an obstacle to fun. The Clock Tower is indeed the perfect storm for bringing Mr. Hyde out of Dr. Jekyll.

The Clock Tower is challenging as far as jumping puzzles go and causes tension in these ways:

1 – The mad rush in the beginning. Tense? Yes. Adrenaline-pumping fun? Heck yeah.

2 – It requires dexterity, judging your leaps in both distance and aim.

3 – There is limited space to move/adjust position (regardless of others playing).

4 – There is limited time.

5 – There is limited screen real-estate to see.

The first four points can be part of any good jumping puzzle and I argue they add to the challenge and fun. The last one is the problem, and combined with the immense tension caused by the puzzle in the first four, it is indeed the perfect storm for Norn and Char discrimination.

Here we see the flaw in the design. But it’s flawed in the way that real life can be flawed, isn’t it?

So, really, if we want to appreciate Guild Wars for what it is – a game with intended flaws – does that mean we have to live with hateful remarks as well? Does that mean that we have to give up the even ground of gaming and the escape from discrimination? Do we have to avoid playing parts of the game to avoid being the butt of jokes and hateful remarks?

Or, should the game be made more neutral and even? Should this wonderful diversity be painted grey to address these design flaws?

Norn and Proud

There really is no “racism” or “discrimination” here. These are real world problems, not teenage boys whining because they blame model size for a problem that has nothing to do with the model size in the first place.

Nobody has actually giving me real trouble over it, I haven’t been kicked from dungeons and people in game treat my charr just like my human.

In fact, the entire issue is a real non issue.
There are two ways to jump at that part, and anyone with an issue with large models can either jump blindly, or use the second platform (the small, floating one. Use it to jump on the debris when it appears, but BEFORE it turns a final time).

The game has solutions.

See, these people don’t actually fail due to model size. They just didn’t manage the jump and BLAME model size for it. Arenanet can do nothing here. They’d blame something equally silly if there were no norn or charr.

I see what you are saying and probably the best thing to do is turn off chat when you are in the Clocktower. Guild Wars may be a fantasy environment, one which you seem to enjoy the immersion of, however it is still the internet. People on the internet will find any excuse available to spread hate.

Sorry to be a downer; thats just how things are.

I think people should just grow up (referring to the abusive players, not the OP). There’s no need to change the game because some people can’t manage to do a jumping puzzle without verbally abusing other players.

If they get very offensive they should simply be banned for harrassment / verbal abuse.

Changing the game because some people can’t act in a civilised, mature way and show their fellow players some basic manners is wrong.

I saw a wonderfull suggestion in a post that now is drowned:

turn everybody into skeletons or something else fitting the event.

Maybe keep your weapos or so to distinguish yourself, but that’s about it.
As simple as that.

I find the racial differences to be fun as well, but i understand the complaints in the clock tower.

If having an obscured vision is part of the challenge, than I think the design fails somewhat.
Any challenging design should at least attempt to be equally fair to all used races.

Concerning the size differences there is another area where it is under debate as well:
in pvp it’s much easier to spot what a big Norn is doing or casting, than it is to see on a tiny Asura.

Simple cast bars would remedy that, so i don’t understand why they create this artificial difficulty agian where you just have to ‘pay attention more’.

Again: it’s not equal for all used races.

as for the hatefull remarks: of course they are wrong, and can’t be defended.

But it’s a bit silly that the very event is created in such a way that it is bound to have issues with race and size differences.

When a puzzle is really hard, people get frustrated.
I think it was a mistake to let size matter for the view that much. it could have easily be avoided.

But that doesn’t mean those frustrated people should resort to insulting. All i’m saying is that the frustration itself can be understood to some degree, and could have been avoided easily.

Yea. To answer your title question: poor behavior.

It’s far easier to blame someone else if you fail. Us gamers have fragile egos and frankly aren’t used to games that are challenging (much less ones that we CAN’T conquer)

Those that are spewing bile about the clock tower will probably feel silly once they complete it. (but will never admit they were wrong…)

As far as a workaround for real estate on your screen getting blocked; just know that your toon is always in the center of the screen. Once you can detach yourself from your character model (and you may only have to do this for a second or two) it gets much easier.

This tower is an exercise in spatial reasoning, learn to tune out the other moving objects and the puzzle becomes a cakewalk.

First i’ve always thought it was silly when people use the word “racism” against… well… fantasy “races” that do not exist in real life. It just doesn’t make sense to me. Charr don’t exist. Asura don’t exist. Elves and dwarves and centaurs don’t exist. So real life players (in my opinion) cannot be “racist” towards fictious “races”. Just like i can’t be racist towards the easter bunny.

That said….

i think the mean spirited way some people have been treating Charr and Norn in the clock tower puzzle is wrong. i’ve tried to go out of my way of telling any Charr or Norn that they aren’t bothering me (even though i’m a teeny Asura)! …

i tend to think people over blame the Charr and Norn, to be honest, because its easier to blame someone else for your failure, than to accept that you screwed up because of you. Its much easier to say “well i failed because of /that/ guy! and no because i personally did anything stupid! its all someone elses fault!”

Yes, its a bit harder to “see” where you’re landing when there is a large Charr or Norn around, but…. really, once you’ve run the Clock Tower a dozen times you can almost close your eyes and do the beginning part. You do not need to /see/ your character to make the jumps. If you keep your cam the same distance, and turn with your mouse, your character is always at the same point on your screen… you just need to fix your gaze on that point, and go. You don’t need to see anything.

Overly cautious/anxious people probably feel “uncomfortable” trusting their instinct and jumping blindly, but i don’t think that’s a Charr or Norns fault.

i certainly think it sucks when people are truly mean to someone who chose to play one of those sorts of characters. Light hearted teasing is another story. i’ve seen a lot of that going on. Where no one is really meaning to be hateful, and everyone is laughing and having a nice sort of time. And you can tell everyone is having a sense of humour about it.

Other times it is a bit uglier.

i think if someone really has an issue with a large Charr or Norn the person who “can’t see” needs to leave themself. Exit the tower and re-enter and try to get into a different group if you’re unhappy with the size of the characters in the group you get tossed in! Don’t bully the Charr or Norn into leaving.. just leave yourself if you don’t like it! Least that’s what i think

Anyway i’m sorry if you felt bullied :S

small character with large characters blocking the view is an actual issue.

It becomes a major issue with 3-4 large characters are all jumping at the same time throwing everyone else off because they can not tell where their character is due to the camera bobbing all over the place due to poor mechanics.

Your character is not in a stationary location with regards to your camera. Zoom in and out or have your camera collide with obstacles and your character can be a few steps in either direction. Without being able to see where your character is in relation to the camera which is constantly moving, it becomes a complete mess.

PS, it’s a lot easier to turn off chat than to turn off other characters blocking your view.

Honestly I apologize for all the hatred that charr and norn receive in this puzzle. I had truly wished that the devs tested this with a bunch of norns and char with asurans. They would have seen the major issue it can create when you can’t even see where your character is at as an asuran and also most of the jumping simply being blocked out. I simply wished they would have put us all in ONE type of costume. Plastic spiders. That way everyone was in the same boat for the jumping puzzle.

I apologize for the Norns and Charr receiving the hatred that Anet deserves for the conundrum they could have avoided with testing their design.

As a female Norn myself, and not as the victim, but a witness of this type of behavior, I can tell you that there’s a really easy solution that most players will accept… Take off your armor. I just go naked now, because it makes things easier. And I’ve seen large male norns who also have all of their armor removed and not a single person complains about them.

Instead people complain about those who have incredibly bulky armor, with their shoulders and helm. Remove all of your armor, and people probably won’t complain. And actually, I found the jumps a lot easier because I could spot myself.

I don’t think it’s the event that causes the problems….the problems are already there in the players ( of all ages, mind you…not all are children ) that will stoop to such lows because they are impatient and just want to find an outlet for their anger. Instead of a positive one, they look to hate on others and hurt them. This is the negative outlet and a majority of people “will” resort to in an instant. This isn’t just this game….it’s in many games. And not just MMOs.

I wouldn’t call it racism but it is a shame people are being so hateful because of the size of ones character. Yet the people complaining are often humans, the medium sized race. If they want to practice what they preach they should be on an Asura. Or just not complain because ultimately success or failure at the puzzle is based on your own ability not who you’re with. Even when I was in a group with three bulky norns and two charr I was frustrated by their size but I never felt that they caused my failure. I can understand why people lash out, they’re frustrated and need to get it out somehow. Rather then blame other people who were in the same boat as me I just blamed imaginary banana peels for my constant falling which was great because I often got a “lol” or “sorry” or “it was me” in response.

Oooh, a thread about racism.

I just love these, in a game that has a whole NPC-race to laugh at and discriminate a rather large group of people. I mean of course dredge and all the jabs against Russians they seem to represent (Iron Veil, Molodetc Excavation, Vpered Drill, comrades, well, I`m sure you`ve seen the stuff).

So, with this game developed in a racist streek I don`t see how you can press people playing that game into not being racist.

Well, frustration can lead to many things.
Just as much as in actual situations or any other Multiplayer Game.
Some people might actually curse towards A.I. or Game mechanics. (The things people scream through the call of duty comms) =D
But, that doesn’t change the fact that they’re solving their frustration on towards some/(one)(thing) else.

My opinion on it though;
Honestly, i think you should report people for being verbally abusive,
but sometimes you should let it slip through your fingers.

So point being, i don’t think it’s because flawed game mechanics.
You’d receive it wherever you go.

People would typically repeatedly do it and when 1 person goes, 4 more come back in his/her place.
Applying strict behavior to a person would only make it worse.

//
Changing the game mechanics would just make it to easy, but there’s far too much people that might actually enjoy the result when they hit the finish line.

// >- Which, i think arena net wants. //

At least that’s what i experienced when the achievement popped up.
Although, it might just be me.
//

I find myself eyeballing chat a lot whilst doing the puzzle, but when i just minimize it and focus on the actual routine you have to follow to get it correctly, with as much speed as i can process between the puzzle jumps.
//
There was a guy with a video around, where he opened his inventory blocked the entire character area and jumped it with a huge inventory blocking his view.
//

Two things that worked for me though, were;
- Disabling the (shaking) (seriously, i forgot what they called it.) of the camera
- Lowering the graphical detail
- Changing to Free Camera mode.
- Minimizing Chat

Honestly i wouldn’t know if it would help you, since you can’t finish the puzzle.
But thought it would’ve been worth mentioning.

The Jump was made to be difficult, don’t cry because you lack the skill set to do it

Its hard for small characters to see where they are jumping with norns in the way, and its hard for norns to jump because of camera issues… every race has a reason to find it “difficult”.

Ive completed the puzzle multiple times on a Sylvari AND a Norn and had limited issues.

i’m an asura (and actually the shortest an Asura can be, my height slider is waaaay down) and when i mess up, its not the norn or charr in front of me who’s at fault. i’ve gotten really far up, so i’m the last man standing.. and trust me.. when i screw up its because i’m jumping bad >.< or letting myself get distracted. Nahlx is totally right, minimising chat helps loads. You’d be surprised how often your yes flick over to peek at chat without meaning to…. and you mess up because of just that tiny fraction of a second distraction.

Aelaren.3784:

Oooh, a thread about racism.

I just love these, in a game that has a whole NPC-race to laugh at and discriminate a rather large group of people. I mean of course dredge and all the jabs against Russians they seem to represent (Iron Veil, Molodetc Excavation, Vpered Drill, comrades, well, I`m sure you`ve seen the stuff).

So, with this game developed in a racist streek I don`t see how you can press people playing that game into not being racist.

How exactly is that racism?
Have you noticed that soviet union has already fallen? Or maybe you actualy think modern russia is anything like that?
What you pointed out are at most jabs at communism and cold war era in general, though they aren´t really even jabs…i mean all that is pretty mild when it comes to political satire.

I am not blaming the people behind so the racism or discrimination isn’t on personal level and it’s only a specific isolated case.

Zefiris.8297:

[…]
See, these people don’t actually fail due to model size. They just didn’t manage the jump and BLAME model size for it. Arenanet can do nothing here. They’d blame something equally silly if there were no norn or charr.

Not true. If the issues weren’t there and I’d fail due to lack of timing, direction and force I would blame myself. Simple as that. Yes, some people are capable of self-criticism.

The difference between a whiner and a critic is that the critic knows the boundaries of his/her complaints whereas the whiner would do as you say.

The other jump position is working as well but alas I avoid it for reasons related to random “stuck camera” reasons. It was actually my initial jump-off point. The other side is easy if you jump and actually from the right position which may get blocked entirely by models. I feel for people with slower machines because they couldn’t get ahead of these big guys. Seen a lot people slipping off the border because of that. My issue is that and the fact that due to the wall-effect of the characters the initial jump phase is just wonky and a matter between not getting my sight blocked on the fly and not getting the camera in the way either.

To reiterate: It’s got really nothing to with the players and they are not at fault which means I won’t attack players over it – in fact I just leave, re-enter, leave, re-enter until the group mix is okay. The fault lies in that while the idea was nice on paper the issues weren’t foreseen. Which means you could hold it against designers or not. But it’s something to iterate on. The result won’t be an easier puzzle which is what most people are dreading.

DinoDoll.3682:

i’m an asura (and actually the shortest an Asura can be, my height slider is waaaay down) and when i mess up, its not the norn or charr in front of me who’s at fault. i’ve gotten really far up, so i’m the last man standing.. and trust me.. when i screw up its because i’m jumping bad >.< or letting myself get distracted. Nahlx is totally right, minimising chat helps loads. You’d be surprised how often your yes flick over to peek at chat without meaning to…. and you mess up because of just that tiny fraction of a second distraction.

wait, so your chat flickering completely messes you up but 3 giant norns and charr blocking your view is not an issue?

you can turn off your UI as well. That will knock out any chat or flashes on your screen.

OP: Go and do the puzzle, you’re not to blame because other people are bad are trying to blame their inability to complete the puzzle on other people.

For me: I’m petty, I did it on my Charr Warrior and received a bit of abuse so I grabbed a banner and used swiftness at the most inopportune moment causing a bunch of the people running it to fall off the edge.

sushihead.9360:

wait, so your chat flickering completely messes you up but 3 giant norns and charr blocking your view is not an issue?

you can turn off your UI as well. That will knock out any chat or flashes on your screen.

correct!…

eh! i’d almost say.. when i do my best… its almost like this “zen” moment. or like “using the force”. i’m not thinking about each jump at all. i don’t even need to see my character even… the few times i’ve got the highest up actually were when a charr was right in front of me. i think their jumps hypnotise me and i just smoothly follow or something! i dunno …

but when i glance to chat and start like ‘half’ glimpsing words it breaks the sort of “smooth” zen needed to get up! ~ but really its like typing… you know.. i mean.. assuming you are someone who can type without looking down at the keys. You aren’t “consciously” thinking “okay what row is the next letter on”.. its like you get into this smooth movement where your fingers /know/ where the letters are. your muscles know, without you having to think about it… same thing happens in the tower after awhile.. you don’t have to think “omg, where’s my character i need to see it to do this!” .. you just.. do it.. without needing to see your character fully. Just like you don’t need to look at your keyboard keys to know where the “o” key is, or whatever, when you type.

(actually there’s two places in the tower i need to stop and think, for a half second every time.. or.. at least i do.. i can’t help it! – but i keep trying to say to myself “stay zen, use the force!” :P )

the ui turn off suggestion is stellar. i don’t know why that didn’t occur to me (when i use it all the time for screenshots)!! thanks for suggesting it.

After hours upon hours of doing this puzzle, I finally turned off my UI during the actual puzzle, and turn back on during the waiting if there was time (which usually there wasn’t). I can’t even express how much I wish I had done this earlier… After turning my UI off, I beat the puzzle in about 1.5 hours.

Thank you for bringing this topic up, OP. As a fellow Norn, I’d like to toss in my two coppers.

I enjoyed the Clocktower even though I never beat it. I haven’t had that much fun falling to my death in years. During my times waiting to go again, I have seen many hateful things said towards the larger races of the game, Norns and Charrs. I wouldn’t call this racism as much as denial. In plenty of games, you’ll see people whining in PvP that a class is Overpowered. Reason being: they got demolished by a better player. They don’t think it was themselves, they think they’re better then that. They aren’t.
The Clockwork Tower is the same thing. People can’t bring themselves to say they were too bad to win it, so they blame the nearest thing in sight, in this case, the Charr and Norn Character Models.

As for me? Well, I gave up on the Tower and pursued the other Achievements instead, and now own all of them except for the Attend the Party one and (obviously) the Tower.

bionaknight.9210:

Thank you for bringing this topic up, OP. As a fellow Norn, I’d like to toss in my two coppers.

I enjoyed the Clocktower even though I never beat it. I haven’t had that much fun falling to my death in years. During my times waiting to go again, I have seen many hateful things said towards the larger races of the game, Norns and Charrs. I wouldn’t call this racism as much as denial. In plenty of games, you’ll see people whining in PvP that a class is Overpowered. Reason being: they got demolished by a better player. They don’t think it was themselves, they think they’re better then that. They aren’t.
The Clockwork Tower is the same thing. People can’t bring themselves to say they were too bad to win it, so they blame the nearest thing in sight, in this case, the Charr and Norn Character Models.

As for me? Well, I gave up on the Tower and pursued the other Achievements instead, and now own all of them except for the Attend the Party one and (obviously) the Tower.

Or more likely, it´s just pure frustration.
I´ve seen most of the players i´ve been with that kitten about large races kittening about their own skill too.

It really is an issue, there´s no denying it, but it certainly isn´t a gambreaking one. Though it is a really frustrating one.

Strang. The last thing I expect in any fantasy MMO game is political satire. If you are so educated in modern life in Russia, you should probably know that Communist party is one of the most influenial forces in russian politics. You should probably also know that a lot of people still belong to it. “Modern Russia is anything like that” – like what? it is not, and more importantly, never WAS the way you and developers seem to imagine it.

“Cold war era” jokes would be fine with me if I could see some cheesburgers spoiling out of the bloated bellies of the Risen I slain. As of now, the “jokes” seem lopsided and one-way. Which certainly spells “racist” in my book.

There have been very nice Char and Norn in the tower when I have been trying. They come in, get naked, talk and are friendly. Then there are the jerks who not only wear giant flowy armor (which by the way, is even distracting on humans – elementalist skirt…) but they also hop up and down and strafe fast at the pause. When I get one of those, I leave, pour a cup of coffee and come back and get a new instance.

If I get an instance with more than 2 Char, I requeu it. Last night, I was the only Asura (smallest female you can make) in an instance with 1 human female, a sylvari male, 2 char and the rest norns only 1 being female. Everyone was naked and I had no problems.

But you know what, other than the few rude ones who were doing the distracting hopping and stuff, my issues with being able to see weren’t the other characters’ fault. I made the smallest character I could make. That was my choice. I can choose to stay in an instance with alot of big characters or requeue until I get one where I am comfortable enough to run the puzzle.

I saw people being rude and I made a point to thank those characters for being naked and tried to let them know not all of us feel more entitled to participate because we are vertically challenged.

And, it cracks me up to say, “I would just like to thank all of you big guys in here for being naked as it allows me to see so much better!” Always gets a laugh!

It’s nothing personal OP, but most people need to be able to see their character in order to see where they’re going and make jumps.

Most of the time I attempted the jumping puzzle, I fell within the first 1/4 of the puzzle, because between the camera issues (zooming in on a block and obscuring my entire FoV), and large norn/charr, you can’t see. If you can do the jumping puzzle while blindfolded, I commend you but don’t expect it of everyone else.

I main a Charr. After I saw how difficult not being able to see made the puzzle. I logged off my Charr and did it on my human instead, because I didn’t want to block everyone’s view.

Maybe other people should be as considerate and log onto human/sylvari alts.

Aelaren.3784:

Strang. The last thing I expect in any fantasy MMO game is political satire. If you are so educated in modern life in Russia, you should probably know that Communist party is one of the most influenial forces in russian politics. You should probably also know that a lot of people still belong to it. “Modern Russia is anything like that” – like what? it is not, and more importantly, never WAS the way you and developers seem to imagine it.

“Cold war era” jokes would be fine with me if I could see some cheesburgers spoiling out of the bloated bellies of the Risen I slain. As of now, the “jokes” seem lopsided and one-way. Which certainly spells “racist” in my book.

You´re making my point for me. It indeed isn´t and never was like what you seem to think dredge are supposed to be jab at. Hence it hardly can be a jab at Russia or russians.
What they are doing is mimicing cold war era stereotypes, propaganda and political satire and pasting it on a fantasy race, naturaly their viewpoint is that of western nations, since they are from there.
Might also be that they oppose communism and want to express it that way, wouldn´t be first nor last time video games are used as a medium for showing political beliefs.
Also when has political commentation ever been fair or balanced? The whole idea of politics is to drive certain ideology and values, not to be friends with everyone.

But what i tried to tell you earlier is not what modern russia is like, nor try to enlighten you on russian politics. I tried to tell you that it´s not racist simply because there´s no certain races involved. Communism, is a political ideology, it´s not a racial matter. Neither is Russia a race, it´s a nation. No race, no racism.

I’m a charr. I think it’s hilarious that people freak out when I do Clock Tower. “GET YOUR FAT kitten OUT OF THE WAY MEDICAT” all the time ahahaha

Hey man, i’m just trying to get my treat bags. If you can’t see, that’s not my problem.

mischwoof.9785:

Hey man, i’m just trying to get my treat bags. If you can’t see, that’s not my problem.

that’s sort of a rude attitude to have too…

I see alot of hatred and rudeness towards the bigger characters. playing an asura first taught me how to “see” myself without seeing myself, and now I don’t have a problem with the bigger characters. I don’t need to see myself to know where I am or where I’m jumping to.

I don’t see the point in directing failure at someone else, because really that is what the hatred is.

DinoDoll.3682:

mischwoof.9785:

Hey man, i’m just trying to get my treat bags. If you can’t see, that’s not my problem.

that’s sort of a rude attitude to have too…

But somewhat justifiable after being attacked in just about every group you go to.

When I was in a really small group (only 5 of us, and usually only 3 are running because the other two always made it), I made a joke that a bad thing about small groups is that I can’t blame a bigger Norn or a Charr for my failures anymore. They laughed, but it’s actually true. I realized that in the small group, I was still falling in the same places I usually fall.

Oh, the big races aren’t that much of an issue(yes they can block all your screen at the start when the camera starts acting funky), what bothered me the most where these grievers that kept summoning minions(Golems mostly).
When I jumped trough instances to find an appropriate group composition I stumbled on this group with like 6 asura, and I said: “Cool, I’ll have no trouble here seeing the puzzle”. But when the puzzle started they all had summoned golems and other minions, doubling the party size. I was pretty mad at that time failing repeatedly at this one spot that I sent them all to hell and left that instance. Luckily for me the next instance only had 4 persons in it 1 norn, 1 human and another asura. This was just golden, and I managed to complete it!

Yes, turning chat off helps big time!

I don’t find them to be a problem. I think people just want to blame something for their own failures. Honestly, after the first hard jump (immediately after the pause), 90% of the people die regardless of race.

I honestly find the puzzle to be harder when there were more naked human men in the group. I kept losing track of which hot, manly beefcake I was controlling.

mischwoof.9785:

I’m a charr. I think it’s hilarious that people freak out when I do Clock Tower. “GET YOUR FAT kitten OUT OF THE WAY MEDICAT” all the time ahahaha

Hey man, i’m just trying to get my treat bags. If you can’t see, that’s not my problem.

So players like this intentionally agitate other players who are struggling with the puzzle.

Then other players start spawning their elite summons, and dragging more trash into the puzzle.

Suddenly a minute or two is entirely wasted while excess pets are all over the screen.

I’m happy that some of you can do the puzzle blindfolded. That’s nice.

Many of us are visually oriented. No amount of telling us to do things ‘blindly’ is going to make it happen suddenly.

It might happen after a 30 or so successful attempts at something (30 or so being a ‘nice’ number at which something can become habitual); however, in order for this to happen, we’d have to be able to see what we were doing in the first place to be successful.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

Why is their immediate response “sorry you fail and are incompetent, go do something else” ???

I won’t lie it was a little difficult doing this puzzle with larger toons, but it was not their fault. It took awhile to for me to focus on what I was doing and to stop watching EVERYTHING going on around me. It was stupid mistakes on my part that caused me to fail at this jumping puzzle.

But I eventually managed to finish the puzzle with the help of a Norn nice enough to show me where I kept slipping off and what to do toward the end. (It was that half cog after you jump down) I did some kidding with the Charr and Norn toons around me, but not once was I hateful or mad at them.

As others have said it is easy to blame this or that when you are frustrated, after 100+ tries I finished.

Oh and for those who have not finished the puzzle, if you are an Ele I sugguest changing your traits to air and using air signet for the speed boost.

zaneber.6908:

I won’t lie it was a little difficult doing this puzzle with larger toons, but it was not their fault. It took awhile to for me to focus on what I was doing and to stop watching EVERYTHING going on around me. It was stupid mistakes on my part that caused me to fail at this jumping puzzle.

But I eventually managed to finish the puzzle with the help of a Norn nice enough to show me where I kept slipping off and what to do toward the end. (It was that half cog after you jump down) I did some kidding with the Charr and Norn toons around me, but not once was I hateful or mad at them.

As others have said it is easy to blame this or that when you are frustrated, after 100+ tries I finished.

Oh and for those who have not finished the puzzle, if you are an Ele I sugguest changing your traits to air and using air signet for the speed boost.

I tried doing this with my thief but speed boost wouldn’t hold. How do you make it hold with your elementalist?

sushihead.9360:

zaneber.6908:

I won’t lie it was a little difficult doing this puzzle with larger toons, but it was not their fault. It took awhile to for me to focus on what I was doing and to stop watching EVERYTHING going on around me. It was stupid mistakes on my part that caused me to fail at this jumping puzzle.

But I eventually managed to finish the puzzle with the help of a Norn nice enough to show me where I kept slipping off and what to do toward the end. (It was that half cog after you jump down) I did some kidding with the Charr and Norn toons around me, but not once was I hateful or mad at them.

As others have said it is easy to blame this or that when you are frustrated, after 100+ tries I finished.

Oh and for those who have not finished the puzzle, if you are an Ele I sugguest changing your traits to air and using air signet for the speed boost.

I tried doing this with my thief but speed boost wouldn’t hold. How do you make it hold with your elementalist?

one of the air traits is Zephyr’s Speed – Move 10% faster while attuned to air
Signet of Air – Passive: Grants a 10% increase in movement speed.
Just made sure I was attuned to air and my signet was working. I blazed through pretty quick

@sushihead:
Only passive traits work(You skills are disabled), warrior banners and boosters bought from the gem store(there might be more that I don’t know about). But for some people(like me) the speed buffs only make us perform worse.

as an asura i hate norn and char for the following reason

your so big and bulky i cant see my asura at all when waiting to jump on certain parts.

you block my landing path so when i try and move ahead i end up going the wrong way.

on normal puzzles when u decided to just afk at the edge of an important jump also sucks.

other then that i have no real issues with you,

one posative thing. in pvp norns are basicly a giant GANK ME sign

thief does have a passive Signit of Shadows but it never seemed to carry over (icon never showed up) once I got into the tower.

The hate is simple: Norn players who have large flowing outfits that block the entire landing square with their clothes.

I’m not heaping hate on them, it’s just that when I first tried to do the tower there was this Norn elementalist with his witches broom and large flowing outfit that was so LARGE that I couldn’t see where to land ahead of me because he overlapped the entire landing area (and blocked the view trying to get there).

He pretty much laughed when people asked him to change to another outfit which caused a lot of rage quitting by other players. I’ll admit i was getting angry too since I’m bad at timed jumping puzzles especially when the in-game camera doesn’t help and these were must first tries at the tower. But i’ll wager this guy drove a dozen people away from trying that tower.

That’s why the hate for norn and other larger players wearing armor/outfits that purposely block other players from seeing stuff.

I find it ironic there are a ton of videos on youtube with people doing the puzzle with their inventory screens blocking their view, and yet people complain my Charr’s body is the sole reason they cannot complete the tower.

Masher.8051:

I find it ironic there are a ton of videos on youtube with people doing the puzzle with their inventory screens blocking their view, and yet people complain my Charr’s body is the sole reason they cannot complete the tower.

I find it ironic that people can make a perfect score on the SATs and yet others still can’t get above 2000.

Then again there are bots that can record your movements, then you play them back and they will effectively run the entire tower even if your inventory is blocking the WHOLE screen.

It’s annoying to have to ask you chunky monkeys to take your clothes off so the rest of the players can see what they’re doing. After the first time I failed the puzzle I took my Norn’s clothes off except the shoulder pads to remove clutter from the screen yet keep her distinguishable. Everyone else in the instance did the same thing. I find it incredible that anyone even has to ask. And yes, it is a pain in the kitten to have to run with some fatty who dies at the same bloody place in the puzzle over and over again, meaning that up until their very obvious point of demise everyone else has to suffer.

What they need is a separate instance for large characters, where those with eating disorders or obsessions with fur can go after they inevitably fail three or four times what is in actuality a fairly easing jump challenge (it has nothing on Mario, Sonic, Megaman or any other REAL platformer).

What the hell is up with these forums? slow as hell.

sushihead.9360:

Masher.8051:

I find it ironic there are a ton of videos on youtube with people doing the puzzle with their inventory screens blocking their view, and yet people complain my Charr’s body is the sole reason they cannot complete the tower.

I find it ironic that people can make a perfect score on the SATs and yet others still can’t get above 2000.

Then again there are bots that can record your movements, then you play them back and they will effectively run the entire tower even if your inventory is blocking the WHOLE screen.

Exactly, it’s down to player ability, people get frustrated with their failure and look for an easy excuse. Hence the sudden Charr/Norn hate.

When learning the puzzle, you have to see the puzzle. It’s not about seeing where you are, but seeing where you need to go. That’s why norn and charr are so obnoxious, because you can’t see where you need to be.

Obviously once you learn the puzzle they cease to be a problem. Once you learn the puzzle you don’t need to see anything to do it. Of course, people who have learned the puzzle are not the ones hating on charr and norn characters. It’s those still trying to learn the puzzle, that actually need to see the next jump, that have the problem.

And yes, for the record, I finished the puzzle, and I hated every minute I had to spend in there with a huge norn blocking my view.

I actually read about the Norn/Charr size problem prior to trying the jumping puzzle and made a conscious decision to use a Human character I had stowed away rather than my high level (and very large and armored) Charr. Didn’t bother me using a different character, since the achievement and all of the loot is account bound, so it doesn’t matter WHO on my account completed it, just that it got done.

On a side note, though, my puzzle ‘group’ that I was with for a good hour or so consisted of a couple of Charr and a large shirtless Norn in bright red pants. They didn’t really affect me too much, except for the very few times that the Norn and I would be jumping at the same exact time in the same exact places for the majority of the puzzle. Other than that, once I got the layout of the puzzle down, it wasn’t such a big deal. I also learned to hesitate for half a second on some of the easier jumps so that they would get ahead of me and I could see myself again.

It was really a non issue and I can only think of maybe two or three instances in that whole hour I spent where their size actually affected me and only one case where it lead to my death. That one case was more that I subconsciously followed the Norn off a ledge ’cause we were jumping in sync, though. :P

Can someone tell me how to disable the double tap dodge forward (fell off multiple times because my W key was pressed too quickly)