Guild Wars 2

So, I hope no one takes this as a qq thread, or a qq about qqing.

First, some disclaimers. I have not opened any chests for halloween. I have not bought any keys for the event and, in fact, have not bought any lottery type item ever. I’m not against the gem store in principle – at some point I’ll likely get an extra character slot, maybe some storage, possibly even a skin if one shows up I like.

Second, I personally don’t particularly care for the halloween skins. The Mad Moon shield slightly interests me, but my only shield user is one of my least used alts. And, in general, most of the hard to get skins (dungeons, etc) also don’t interest me. So, I’m not really looking to make anything easier to get (ie gimmee now on a platter).

One argument is that rare skins have to be rare – otherwise they don’t give the owner a sense of “uniqueness” and feeling special. I remember in one thread a player talking about how one dungeon skin was his favorite looking, but because it had an easy to farm path at the time, too many people had gotten the set. And so it was “ruined” for him to wear, despite him liking it the most of all sets. I personally find that bizarre. If a set is my favorite, I’ll wear it because its so, not because of who else is wearing it. Heck, my favorite (overall) weapon set are the Krytan weapons, and they are super easy to get.

The second argument for rarity is that too many players are from the “instant gratification” or “WoW easy” mentality. That there should be effort and/or skill involved in getting rare stuff. Okay, let’s go with that. How is getting lucky with a super rare skin using chests a measure of effort or skill? I have about a dozen keys I’ve earned in game that I haven’t bothered to use. Say I use them for this event, and get a rare skin – I’m either instantly “special and unique” or potentially very rich, through no effort of my own, just luck. It likely won’t happen, but odds are, given the number of players, it will happen that some will open just a few chests and get really lucky.

So, my questions, in summary – does a skin really have to be owned by just a few people to make it special? Is it not cool because of the way it looks to you? And if rare skins are to signify specialness, is a random lottery the way to hand them out? A Legendary weapon (minus the randomness of the precursor) basically requires a huge amount of effort – completing/farming nearly the entire game’s content. Halloween skins are just dumb luck – so any specialness you may try to associate with them being rare really just seems an illusion to me.

Joiry.2504:

So, my questions, in summary – does a skin really have to be owned by just a few people to make it special?

Yes, same as pretty much any real world product (excluding things that are special for sentimental reasons of course).

Skins that take a lot of work or skill to get (rather than RNG) are of course a lot more special, but if they’re challenging to get then the result is still that only a few people will have them.

My view on this:

I try feel unique with my characters by making original combinations.
Those can include rare pieces, but that’s not necessary as such.
it’s the combo that makes it stand out, for me.

This is exactly my problem with the gear in this game.
For a game being ALl focused on the looks or skins of gear and weapons, I find very little variety to work with for creating a personal look.

Most sets look simular, and what’s worse: those few sets that have pieces that stand out, are usually very hard to obtain.
‘Hard’ bieng: it takes ages or tons of mats, or gold, or incredible luck, etc.

I don’t mind having lots of gear in the game that is so hard to get.

I do mind having so little options with gear that isn’t hard to get.

As for WoW, where the diversity is immensely bigger I’m sad to admit. Bit weird that a game like Wow has so much more gear variety than a game like GW2 that is based on the skins as incentive for everything.
WoW has a ton of very ugly gear in my view, but it has more variety and that’s important for me.

Not all ‘skins’ in WoW (so basically transmogging pieces) are that easy to get by the way.
I can spend more time chasing one elusive low lvl chestpiece i want for transmogging, than it takes me to win a raid roll on the latest set piece.
If you’re discussing skins and looks in GW2, you need to take the transmogging route when comparing to WoW, not the raid gear grind route

I really wish I could obtain a lot more interesting little pieces in GW2 that would allow me to make unique combinations.

Halloween could help for that, since the looks stand out from the rest for example (at least some do).
I see it as a missed opportunity that event gear should be so hard to get as well.
It’s an event, let the players have some fun gear without much hasstle for a change.

Holliday events are the ideal way to introduce several different pieces that people can use.

In short: I find the game very lacking in easy to obtain gear that has variety in looks.
Not even talking about special looks, just a bit more different looks…

Kimbald.2697:

I don’t mind having lots of gear in the game that is so hard to get.

I do mind having so little options with gear that isn’t hard to get.

As for WoW, where the diversity is immensely bigger I’m sad to admit. Bit weird that a game like Wow has so much more gear variety than a game like GW2 that is based on the skins as incentive for everything.

I didn’t play WoW long enough to have some solid opinion on this topic so I just believe you. And it is for sure sad and should be (and hopefully will become) better.

But do not forget you are comparing a 7,5 years old game to a 2 months old game. And Blizzard is not a bunch of free working lefties… so GW2 has a good excuse to have less content, don’t you think?

Having gear diversity isn’t that much of a strain on ‘content’ I think.

I don’t really care if Wow has more by itself, as most of it is utterly not my style anyhow.
Wow can be extremely cartoonish and silly in gear, but when you have other options, you can pick and chose.
So the point is: diversity in looks gives you options.

I turned my hunter in WoW into a moon huntress-priestess in pve and a forrest stalker in pvp for example, but for that I used different pieces from all over the game.

In GW2 I tried to do simular things, but I simply can’t.
Except for the really special looks, my engineer always looks the same, give or take a pvp hat.
But I can’t combine here in a way it makes a difference.

GW2 obviously sold itself as a game where the looks, and skins, are very important. opposed to the stats and all that.
So new game or not, I was hoping for more diversity in those looks.

I like some of the things my characters wear, but when I see other pieces I can hardly see a very big difference.

Important note: the dying system is brilliant and by itself offers a lot of possibilities.

You want to have every player and their grandma walking around with the Halloween themed weapons for the rest of the year?
That’s why they are hard to make/get. Same for any other unique skin.

You can still get the temporary skins somewhere in LA if you wish to. Why don’t you use that option?

Plunder.8195:

You want to have every player and their grandma walking around with the Halloween themed weapons for the rest of the year?
That’s why they are hard to make/get. Same for any other unique skin.

You can still get the temporary skins somewhere in LA if you wish to. Why don’t you use that option?

that works the other way just the same you know: the more special an item is, the longer someone will use it.

If the Halloween or other event items are common, people won’t use them all that long.

My point for making them easier, or at least some pieces, is that you might use a single piece in combination with something else for your character.

People focus a lot on ‘total’ sets when discussing skins. I tend to focus on single pieces I see opportunities for. Creating my own look is part of the story telling aspect of this game (or any other MMO I tried, not that many).

Kana.6793:

Yes, same as pretty much any real world product (excluding things that are special for sentimental reasons of course).

Skins that take a lot of work or skill to get (rather than RNG) are of course a lot more special, but if they’re challenging to get then the result is still that only a few people will have them.

So the skins being “rare” is not the reason for them being special, the fact that they took a lot of effort is. Just like in real life! I mean, if I work hard to buy my own car, let’s say, a modest Nissan Micra, it will still be special, even if millions of people have the same kind of car.

See, I’m down with that. I’m down with “special” things taking effort and dedication. What I am not down with is this “I have mine but now I have to make sure nobody else gets it or I won’t be special anymore” hogwash. What I am not down with, is things being a lottery.

What I am especially not down with, is people who think having won the lottery somehow elevates them above the masses of “noobs”, “bads” and “whatever else insult you can come up with to validate yourself over others”.

Joiry.2504:

So, my questions, in summary – does a skin really have to be owned by just a few people to make it special?

Both I think. Some items can be rare and expensive but cheap or easily attainable alternatives should exist, and this is the important bit, they need to be just as cool as the rare stuff.

The Halloween event has two sets of weapons, the craftable ones which take a lot of effort and grind to get, and this is fine with me, some people enjoy having something to work for so they can.

There’s also the black lion chest weapons, which should have been available easily for all but because of how rare the chance of getting one is they go for 40g anyway and that sucks.

I totally agree with you, Kimbald, that more skins would be great for GW2. And more different but good “crosscombinable” skins would be even better (come on, Arena, give us some elegant looking swords in addition to all this anime shovels). I think through it is a big bunch of work to create them that can’t be done right now and hope that it will be done during the coming weeks, months and years.

If some of this skins are available to heavy grinding or money spending players only… who cares as long as enough alternatives exist?

Kana.6793:

Joiry.2504:

So, my questions, in summary – does a skin really have to be owned by just a few people to make it special?

Yes, same as pretty much any real world product (excluding things that are special for sentimental reasons of course).

Any real world item?

If I buy a high end graphics cards and processor, I do it for better gaming performance, not because few other people have them. If I buy a coat that’s more expensive because the materials its made of work better to keep me warm, that’s the value I get out of it. If I buy more expensive ingredients to make dinner, I do it because they taste better.

Skins that take a lot of work or skill to get (rather than RNG) are of course a lot more special, but if they’re challenging to get then the result is still that only a few people will have them.

So, you’re sidestepping one of my points/questions. If the argument against making halloween items more available is that rarity makes them special, but the specialness is random, why make them rare in the first place? Everyone knows the “specialness” is dumb luck.

Plunder.8195:

You want to have every player and their grandma walking around with the Halloween themed weapons for the rest of the year?
That’s why they are hard to make/get. Same for any other unique skin.

You can still get the temporary skins somewhere in LA if you wish to. Why don’t you use that option?

The question is (if you read my post), why do you care if everyone and their grandma is walking around with halloween items? Does that really impact you? That is the heart of the questions I ask. Why are people hung up on a random, dumb luck obtained skin be a sign of uniqueness and specialness? I know, I know, people aren’t exactly always very rational, but still…

And second, again if you read my post, I have little interest in the halloween skins. I’ll likely save the keys I’ve earned in game for a holiday that does have skins I like (which, given my tastes, is unlikely – I find most skins like these too gaudy).

Radene.3194:

So the skins being “rare” is not the reason for them being special, the fact that they took a lot of effort is. Just like in real life! I mean, if I work hard to buy my own car, let’s say, a modest Nissan Micra, it will still be special, even if millions of people have the same kind of car.

See, I’m down with that. I’m down with “special” things taking effort and dedication. What I am not down with is this “I have mine but now I have to make sure nobody else gets it or I won’t be special anymore” hogwash. What I am not down with, is things being a lottery.

What I am especially not down with, is people who think having won the lottery somehow elevates them above the masses of “noobs”, “bads” and “whatever else insult you can come up with to validate yourself over others”.

Some thing rare like a diamond is special. Something that takes work and skill like an Olympic medal is special. Something that most people can’t afford like a Ferrari is special. There are special skins in the game that fit each of those criteria. Halloween weapons, Legendary weapons, Cultural T3 for example. The OP asked a general question about rare skins.

I don’t really understand why your post sounds so hostile? I don’t have any Halloween weapon skins and I haven’t bought a single chest. I just opened some with the few keys I had sitting in the bank from story quests and drops and got the usual chest junk.

Chests are a waste of money, just as lottery tickets are. I’ll never pay for either since I know full well I’ll never win. Far more sensible to just buy the things from the TP. They aren’t soulbound.

I find rather interesting the fact that people will make sure things are out for everyone else or make it availabe for 1% of the gw2 population, i find funny the fact that they need to look a fantasy toon and say " i got this and nobody can get this, now look at me and drool about how am i better than you" its their lives that sad?.

Games are meant to be fun but when people agree that special event where items can only be get by extremely RNG something is wrong if an special item in holidays its awarded to everybody IT MEANS you where in that event and the simple fact you are wearing it means you have been here for a long time (or you participated in the event)

im ok with all that its hard to get stuff about legendaries because at some point if you keep playing you will be able to obtain it, but defending a holiday item that its only accesable from RNG and make sure nobody else can get it (heck some white knight here even didnt got it) its plain stupid for me.

1 advice ENJOY the game, let the others have fun as well your character its unique if you feel unique about your character not if your sword its shinier than mine.

my war its dressed in the most realistic way possible and i feel he is unique but if im beside a lvl 20 there wont be much difference, only the fact that my warrior ITS my warrior and i put effort collecting the pieces i wanted for my set.

STOP hardcore elitism with special events if you dont realize when people its not having fun they quit the game when an special event in a holiday its so ELITIST people will feel excluded and when you feel excluded you dont have fun.

my 2 copper.

Kana.6793:

Some thing rare like a diamond is special. Something that takes work and skill like an Olympic medal is special. Something that most people can’t afford like a Ferrari is special. There are special skins in the game that fit each of those criteria. Halloween weapons, Legendary weapons, Cultural T3 for example. The OP asked a general question about rare skins.

I don’t really understand why your post sounds so hostile? I don’t have any Halloween weapon skins and I haven’t bought a single chest. I just opened some with the few keys I had sitting in the bank from story quests and drops and got the usual chest junk.

Chests are a waste of money, just as lottery tickets are. I’ll never pay for either since I know full well I’ll never win. Far more sensible to just buy the things from the TP. They aren’t soulbound.

Why so hostile you ask?

Well, the most accurate answer would be something that reaches far beyond the scope of this game, and has a lot to do with my worldview. But let’s say I’ve been “around” and that’s made me cynical.

So all I can do is say again, I don’t mind things taking effort.

What I do mind is elitism.

Oh, and that “one time event” thing I have too little information on. That’s making me cranky too, because some of us have to work and can’t really schedule our lives around where a game event we want to see is going to happen.

I just want my games to be a pleasant, fun experience. Because the moment I shut the game off, it’s back to the drudgery of responsibility, work, making ends meet.

Radene.3194:

Kana.6793:

Some thing rare like a diamond is special. Something that takes work and skill like an Olympic medal is special. Something that most people can’t afford like a Ferrari is special. There are special skins in the game that fit each of those criteria. Halloween weapons, Legendary weapons, Cultural T3 for example. The OP asked a general question about rare skins.

I don’t really understand why your post sounds so hostile? I don’t have any Halloween weapon skins and I haven’t bought a single chest. I just opened some with the few keys I had sitting in the bank from story quests and drops and got the usual chest junk.

Chests are a waste of money, just as lottery tickets are. I’ll never pay for either since I know full well I’ll never win. Far more sensible to just buy the things from the TP. They aren’t soulbound.

Why so hostile you ask?

Well, the most accurate answer would be something that reaches far beyond the scope of this game, and has a lot to do with my worldview. But let’s say I’ve been “around” and that’s made me cynical.

So all I can do is say again, I don’t mind things taking effort.

What I do mind is elitism.

It would be elitist if they made you do a difficult dungeon in blues without dying and then a lore exam about GW1 before selling you a key. Everyone can buy a key, everyone has the same chance of getting an item.

Plunder.8195:

You want to have every player and their grandma walking around with the Halloween themed weapons for the rest of the year?

Sure, why not?

People should pick the gear they like the best and feel looks the nicest for their character, not jump on the Chaos Glove bandwagon just because of expense/rarity.

I started out in PSO, and nothing was really rare due to the abundance of hacks/dupes around. I played legitimately, but nobody was going to be impressed by my Bringer’s Rifle regardless of how I got it. Still loved the Hell out of that thing and felt amazing when I managed to get it.

If I ever bothered to do the dungeons to get the armour setup I wanted, I wouldn’t particularly care if EVERYONE had those skins available to them. I’d be using them because I like the way it looks on my character, and while the lack of diversity in the playerbase would suck if everyone latched onto them, the lack of ‘prestige’ wouldn’t bother me in the slightest.

So I’ve been reading threads on skins for a while and at the core of them is a fundamental disagreement. There are those who view skins as aesthetic choices and those who view them as a status symbols.

Those in the aesthetic choice camp want skins to make there hero look cool. They want a variety of interesting skins along an entire spectrum of difficulties. Some you get just for showing up, others takes months of grind. The biggest thing they want is variety and choice.

Those in the status symbol camp want rarity. They want their skins to somehow prove they are somehow “better” than someone who didn’t prioritize the resource (time, money) to getting that skin.

So far whenever the two groups try and communicate they fail because they are beginning from different premises. As a member of the aesthetic choice group whenever a member of the status symbol says something to the effect “of course the rare skin is rare” I always have to ask why do we assume the skin is rare? It is new and different and time will eventually make it rare, but for the time being it could be meant as a common skin. For example the book you get for completing act 1 is a common skin, though in 8 months you won’t see it much.

So far it looks like anet is agreeing with the status symbol interpretation and completely ignoring the aesthetic choice group. I personally think they are doing a disservice to the game by doing that. However if each act releases a new decent common skin by the end of the event the balance will be closer to correct between rare and common skins for this event. The marketing issue is that the rare skins are front loaded while the common skins may be back loaded.

Another thing I hear a lot from the status symbol group is “use the 4 hour rental if you don’t want to put in the time” This clearly mis-understands what the aesthetic choice group wants out of a skin. They want to have a choice of how to decorate their hero, that is not offered in any real way by the four hour rental.

As you have said, I agree that if something is nice for you, regardless how many have it or dont have it shouldnt influence that fact.

this matter of people not liking the chest drop rate was completely blown out of proportion, everyone anti or pro that drop rate all recognize that it is so lousy they themselves wont do it, so isnt that the real problem? There was no need to look into every aspect of the fact with a microscope such as whether people need skins or not etc.

Now I’m in now way pro of items being given freely, it should be that people need to work in some measure to have them, just that it shouldnt be completely luck based and with a lousy chance at it to top it off. What Op mentioned about too many people with the same skin, there are some issues involved such as the CoF exploit where it was easy to do the first boss or so and many many people started running around with that easy to get armor regardless they liked it or not, now I personally dont like that armor but I can understand why some who do like it would feel it was cheapened because of the unfortunate exploit situation…all in all rarity is good but it shouldnt be impossibly ridiculous to get as these chests seem to be, opening 50+ chests that cost more then a gold each and getting barely 1-2 and quite possibly not even the one you wanted is a crappy situation to be in.

How come no one talks about the free devil horns? I think they’re pretty cool. Oh wait, everyone gets them, therefore it’s meh?

Kana.6793:

It would be elitist if they made you do a difficult dungeon in blues without dying and then a lore exam about GW1 before selling you a key. Everyone can buy a key, everyone has the same chance of getting an item.

No no, elitism as in “I have this thing and you don’t therefore I am better than you and you should just shut up and know your place, if you were too lazy to work for it.”

That’s what I have a problem with, and that’s what I’ve run into one time too many throughout my MMO career.

Also, not everyone can buy the same amount of keys. Some of us live in countries where the wages are lower and we have less disposable income to burn.

Spendrik.2961:

How come no one talks about the free devil horns? I think they’re pretty cool. Oh wait, everyone gets them, therefore it’s meh?

Are you comparing tiny devil horns that you can only wear on your town set, to sweet sexy items that you can permanently apply to your weapons? Sure, it’s all subjective, but let’s get real, you know it doesn’t compare.

Trust me, if the weapon skins or witch costume were free, or at least easier to obtain, I could care less who else has it, I’d feel awesome repping any of it. On that note, I don’t think people are really asking that the skins be handed to them for free either, but right now people are being rewarded for dumb luck, not skill or any sort of accomplishment in the game.

EricGORE.7896:

Trust me, if the weapon skins or witch costume were free, or at least easier to obtain, I could care less who else has it, I’d feel awesome repping any of it. On that note, I don’t think people are really asking that the skins be handed to them for free either, but right now people are being rewarded for dumb luck, not skill or any sort of accomplishment in the game.

All of these things are available for in game gold.

Spendrik.2961:

How come no one talks about the free devil horns? I think they’re pretty cool. Oh wait, everyone gets them, therefore it’s meh?

Actually it’s because they are town clothes.

Spendrik.2961:

How come no one talks about the free devil horns? I think they’re pretty cool. Oh wait, everyone gets them, therefore it’s meh?

Well, its a matter of taste I suppose. Personally I find them subpar – feels like Anet just didn’t put much effort into them. Nearly every GW1 holiday hat from the first couple of years looks better imo.

Awesome.6120:

All of these things are available for in game gold.

Cause in game gold is easily came (come?) by. With all the gold sinks, its hard for people myself included) to get any sort of quantity of in game gold (since we either don’t have the time to gather stuff for the market, or are unlucky and can’t get anything worth any kind of gold) . I think the most I had at one point was 4g on a single character. Even if you had some IRL wealth, it would take a lot of cash to get the kind of gold it requires to acquire one of the permanent items, let alone some of the BLC skins (scythe/greatsword). They should all be available in the gem shop or make the items a lot easier to acquire.

I really don’t care if everyone is running around with the same skins. All I care is how I look. If anything, those people with either these skins, or possibly the normal legendaries (less so since the mats can be gotten all year and haven’t even seen one in my server), cause resentment in me, just because they have the time/luck required to get the items.

Does anyone remember Guild Wars 1?

How 90% of the veteran players were all unique little butterflies in their black obi with glowing hands and assorted hats?

…that’s what happens when you make stuff rare. by making stuff widely available people are more likely to dress in a way that is personal to them, as opposed to “whatever shows off my infintie wealth best”.