Guild Wars 2

So it being the city for the ‘Represent Kryta’ daily, is a bit…special.

Not really, since Ebonhawke is a Krytan Outpost, with people from Kryta living there.

I noticed this the first day. No time for fact checking when they need to release something every other week. Not sure why they wanted such a tight schedule, I’d have to wager 99% of the players would prefer more time between temporary content updates if that meant said content was thoroughly checked & tested for playability and position in the lore.

If you look at Kryta as a geographic region, it doesn’t make as much sense. If you look at it as a political entity, the relationship with Ebonhawke at this point is strong enough for it to count. It’s in Ascalon the region; it’s part of Kryta the kingdom.

lordkrall.7241:

Not really, since Ebonhawke is a Krytan Outpost, with people from Kryta living there.

Nooooot really.

Webba.3071:

Nooooot really.

I believe you’ll find that Ebonhawk was the last outpost being held against the Char by the Krytans before the dragons awoke. It IS a “Krytan” outpost that happens to reside on Ascalonian soil.

I agree for the full 100% with Xalugami.2096, content comes at us way too fast. Too hard to keep up and yeah, I never bother with lore anymore, it’s impossible to keep track -.-
So Ebonhawke in Ascalon or not, don’t care, don’t have the time for it, it’s sad

lordkrall.7241:

Not really, since Ebonhawke is a Krytan Outpost, with people from Kryta living there.

That is completely false.

Paken Kai.5970:

Webba.3071:

Nooooot really.

I believe you’ll find that Ebonhawk was the last outpost being held against the Char by the Krytans before the dragons awoke. It IS a “Krytan” outpost that happens to reside on Ascalonian soil.

No. It is the last outpost being held against the Charr by the Ascalonians. Go there, talk to the npcs.
They are getting help from the queen of Kryta, Jennah, and her Seraph (The Fallen Angels), but they have their own guard (Ebon Vanguard) and they consider themselves independent from Kryta, politically speaking. It is the same with the Ascalon Settlement (North of LA), even though the Ascalon Settlement is technically in Kryta.

Gabby.3205:

No. It is the last outpost being held against the Charr by the Ascalonians. Go there, talk to the npcs.
They are getting help from the queen of Kryta, Jennah, and her Seraph , but they have their own guard (Ebon Vanguard) and they consider themselves independent from Kryta, politically speaking.

True, its people consider themselves to be Ascalonian, but on at least one occasion, the king of Kryta sent his son over to Ebonhawk to command. This may have just been to command the Seraph or the entire outpost, we don’t know. But it is said that the prince successfully defended against the Charr at a cost of thousands of lives on both sides. This leads us to believe that he was commanding the entire outpost, unless it was just a slow trickle of deaths over a long time.

Gabby.3205:

It is the same with the Ascalon Settlement (North of LA), even though the Ascalon Settlement is technically in Kryta.

I know, I was there when it was founded. (Useless Rurik ….)

Paken Kai.5970:

Gabby.3205:

It is the same with the Ascalon Settlement (North of LA), even though the Ascalon Settlement is technically in Kryta.

I know, I was there when it was founded. (Useless Rurik ….)

Alas, poor Rurik, I knew him well…

Aerial.4380:

Alas, poor Rurik, I knew him well…

Sadly I don’t think you know him as well as those stairs & Devourers, since they spent a lot of time together.

Xalugami.2096:

Aerial.4380:

Alas, poor Rurik, I knew him well…

Sadly I don’t think you know him as well as those stairs & Devourers, since they spent a lot of time together.

Well this is getting rather awkward…

Xalugami.2096:

Aerial.4380:

Alas, poor Rurik, I knew him well…

Sadly I don’t think you know him as well as those stairs & Devourers, since they spent a lot of time together.

Aw, come on. It’s Hamlet (though, now that I google it to doublecheck, it turns out it’s a misquote of Hamlet. Sigh.)

Paken Kai.5970:

Gabby.3205:

No. It is the last outpost being held against the Charr by the Ascalonians. Go there, talk to the npcs.
They are getting help from the queen of Kryta, Jennah, and her Seraph , but they have their own guard (Ebon Vanguard) and they consider themselves independent from Kryta, politically speaking.

True, its people consider themselves to be Ascalonian, but on at least one occasion, the king of Kryta sent his son over to Ebonhawk to command. This may have just been to command the Seraph or the entire outpost, we don’t know. But it is said that the prince successfully defended against the Charr at a cost of thousands of lives on both sides. This leads us to believe that he was commanding the entire outpost, unless it was just a slow trickle of deaths over a long time.

Source on this King of Kryta sending a prince to Ebonhawke? I have never heard of this especially the fact that I only know Princess/Queen Salma after King Jadon fled the throne. Ebonhawke was definitely established by the Ebon Vanguard and resides in Ascalon.

Ebonhawke had a strong alliance with Kryta as Divinity’s Reach provided supplies from an Asura gate when they were still fighting with the Charr as seen from the novel, Ghosts of Ascalon; however, there were strong implications that most residents were of Ascalonian descent based on Dougal Keane’s description of the city and area.

lordkrall.7241:

Not really, since Ebonhawke is a Krytan Outpost, with people from Kryta living there.

The Stronghold of Ebonhawke is an Ascalonian city in the foothills of the Blazeridge Mountains.

In 1080 AE, King Adelbern sent Gwen Thackeray and the Ebon Vanguard to the city of Ebonhawke in order to solidify supply lines to Ascalon City and to act as a last-ditch holdout position. When Gwen arrived, she fortified the city and withstood siege after siege. After the Foefire, Ebonhawke became the last place in Ascalon to be controlled by humans. The people who control this fortress are the last patriots of Ascalon, the rest of their countrymen having taken refuge in Kryta or turned into ghosts by the Foefire. The fortress is supplied by Divinity’s Reach through its asura gate, without which it would have most likely fallen already to the relentless attacks of the charr. Separating it from most of the charr-controlled lands is the Dragonbrand.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ebonhawke

Source on this King of Kryta sending a prince to Ebonhawke? I have never heard of this especially the fact that I only know Princess/Queen Salma after King Jadon fled the throne. </quote>

Looks like someone has not read the latest Novel. “Guild Wars: Sea of Sorrows”

Its mentioned in the book a couple times.

Skipper De Longmont.8734:

<quote>
Source on this King of Kryta sending a prince to Ebonhawke? I have never heard of this especially the fact that I only know Princess/Queen Salma after King Jadon fled the throne. </quote>

Looks like someone has not read the latest Novel. “Guild Wars: Sea of Sorrows”

Its mentioned in the book a couple times.

Actually, it doesn’t matter. I remember something about a king from Spain ruling Portugal in the past, and Portugal was still Portugal, not Spain. There was also that portuguese king that left his son in Brazil, and that prince (as a king) later declared independency from Portugal (Brazil then became a country ruled by a portuguese king).
Ebonhawke is still Ascalon, not Kryta.

Skipper De Longmont.8734:

<quote>
Source on this King of Kryta sending a prince to Ebonhawke? I have never heard of this especially the fact that I only know Princess/Queen Salma after King Jadon fled the throne. </quote>

Looks like someone has not read the latest Novel. “Guild Wars: Sea of Sorrows”

Its mentioned in the book a couple times.

Right, I haven’t read the book especially after I felt that the 2nd book was mediocre compared to the first. And here I thought that the Krytan royalty was ruled by Queens after Jadon’s cowardice.

As Gabby stated though, it doesn’t really matter. Geographically, Ebonhawke is in Ascalon and most of the people are of Asalonian descent. It’s quite a long shot to argue that Ebonhawke is a Krytan city.

cpg.7140:

If you look at Kryta as a geographic region, it doesn’t make as much sense. If you look at it as a political entity, the relationship with Ebonhawke at this point is strong enough for it to count. It’s in Ascalon the region; it’s part of Kryta the kingdom.

The human kingdoms of Kryta and Ascalon are separate entities. The Ascalonian humans actually waged war on the Krytans during the historical Guild Wars. This is where the game’s name comes from, guilds from the three human kingdoms of Orr, Kryta and Ascalon fought in a war against each other. It only ended because the charr attacked leading to Orr and Ascalon nuking themselves.

There are refugees from Ascalon in Kryta (as well as refugees from Cantha and Elona) and to a certain extent they are why Kryta stands today. It was only through the aid of the Ebon Vanguard (the Ascalonian army that formed in the north and took the fight to the charr while still serving under the Ascalonian King Adelbern) that the Krytans were able to win the War in Kryta and bring Jennah’s ancestor Salma to the throne by taking the power back from the White Mantle and pushing out the mursaat. In this sense, present day Kryta may still be the territory of the old kingdom of Kryta, but between the Krytan refugees and the aid of the Ebon Vanguard (I would say Ebon Falcons, Keiran Thackeray’s elite soldiers, but Langmar was involved), present day Kryta is a creation of both the Krytans and the Ascalonians (as well as those to come afterwards).

Ebonhawke is another story. It’s the last stronghold of the Ascalonian humans. It was founded by the Ebon Vanguard with some of the last refugees to leave Ascalon before Adelbern pulled an Orr. Kryta has had relatively little to do with it. From my understanding, most of the interest in Ebonhawke comes from the ancestors of the Ascalonians. The Queen does provide aid and she was there during the ogre attacks, but in my opinion, Ebonhawke is a separate entity from Kryta.

The Ebon Vanguard were working under King Adelbern when they founded Ebonhawke. I don’t see why the city would be ruled by the Queen. She provides aid and might have influence, but as far as I know, she does not rule over Ebonhawke.

Indeed, she does not. The fact that Ebonhawke AND Kryta both have delegations at the peace talks in Fields of Ruin indicates that they are independant sovereign states. That said, Wade Samuelsson is the “Duke of Ebonhawke”, which suggests that the Ascalonians still don’t have an official ruler. If the peace treaty takes hold, they may give more serious consideration to crowning an official ruler and having a King/Queen of Ascalon once more.

Newbies in my guild often ask “Where is Kyrta?” or “Where is such and such daily event?” I think Ebonhawke is considered Kryta for these achieves because it’s easier to think of Kryta as “any human settlement” than explain the history of each region to each newbie before they’ve encountered much lore. As far as I’m concerned the people arguing that they’re different are right. I just don’t think it was sloppiness on Arenanet’s part. I think it was a choice.

I’d argue that making the delegate from Ebonhawke rather than Kryta has the potential to make things even MORE confusing to those new to the game. It’s not like you can visit Ebonhawke to get your Krytan daily achievements.

Considering the wording all of the human delegate achievement revolves around Kryta (i.e. “Champion of the Crown,” “Represent Divinity’s Reach in the Crown Pavilion,” etc.), the delegate should have been Krytan, not from Ebonhawke to keep things consistent with the rest of the game.

This game has a rich lore and part of that rich lore is the separate political entities of Ebonhawke and Kryta and the tensions between them. There’s an alliance between the two, but an alliance doesn’t mean Ebonhawke was incorporated into the Krytan kingdom. And having the delegate hailing from Ebonhawk and cheering for the crown ignores that rich history.

It may have been a conscious choice on ArenaNet’s part. But’s still a mistake (a consistency error, albeit a small one) and a bit sloppy.

Isnt Gwen and Thackery burried in Ebonhawk…?

I think i saw her camp the other day.

lordkrall.7241:

Not really, since Ebonhawke is a Krytan Outpost, with people from Kryta living there.

Making a point to stop posting on these forums anymore, but this is simply ludacris..

Typical crude tone instead of of tyring to help or give an informed opinion

Ebonhawke was an old Ascalonian Mining Village re-established by the Ebon Vanguard as a last stronghold against the Charr.

It’s still the last Ascalonian Stronghold for the Ascalonian people with a recent establishment of an Asuran Gate by the Queen of Kryta (Jennah) to ensure supplies and reinforcements are readily available.

Ebonhawke and Kryta share a mere alliance between one another, but Ebonhawke is the last standing Human “town” for Ascalon.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stronghold_of_Ebonhawke

Aeolus.3615:

Isnt Gwen and Thackery burried in Ebonhawk…?

I think i saw her camp the other day.

Yes, she was the major character in establishing Ebonhawke.

Sitkaz.5463:

Newbies in my guild often ask “Where is Kyrta?” or “Where is such and such daily event?” I think Ebonhawke is considered Kryta for these achieves because it’s easier to think of Kryta as “any human settlement” than explain the history of each region to each newbie before they’ve encountered much lore. As far as I’m concerned the people arguing that they’re different are right. I just don’t think it was sloppiness on Arenanet’s part. I think it was a choice.

It, and the area it is in, count for Ascalon dailies/kills, though.

I can give you a nice example: the Spanish cities Ceuta and Melilla are located in Morroco but are considered a part of Spain. Gibraltar is located in Spain but is part of the UK. So, Ebonhawke can easily be located in Ascalon and still be considered a part of Kryta if Krytan law etc applies there.

IceVyper.6810:

I can give you a nice example: the Spanish cities Ceuta and Melilla are located in Morroco but are considered a part of Spain. Gibraltar is located in Spain but is part of the UK. So, Ebonhawke can easily be located in Ascalon and still be considered a part of Kryta if Krytan law etc applies there.

But that’s not the case. Ebonhawke is the last remaining vestige of the human’s presence in Ascalon (i.e. the Ascalonian kingdom) and is a separate political entity from the Krytan kingdom. Royals do not enter into alliances with subjects. They enter into alliances with separate political entities.

Manoa.5897:

IceVyper.6810:

I can give you a nice example: the Spanish cities Ceuta and Melilla are located in Morroco but are considered a part of Spain. Gibraltar is located in Spain but is part of the UK. So, Ebonhawke can easily be located in Ascalon and still be considered a part of Kryta if Krytan law etc applies there.

But that’s not the case. Ebonhawke is the last remaining vestige of the human’s presence in Ascalon (i.e. the Ascalonian kingdom) and is a separate political entity from the Krytan kingdom. Royals do not enter into alliances with subjects. They enter into alliances with separate political entities.

This. At least, right now, for all that we know.
Unless ANet simply decided to change the lore, which of course they can do anytime. I mean, Jennah’s announcement might include that Ebonhawke was just incorporated to Kryta.
That would explain why the emissary for the crown is from Ebonhawke.

Gabby.3205:

This. At least, right now, for all that we know.
Unless ANet simply decided to change the lore, which of course they can do anytime. I mean, Jennah’s announcement might include that Ebonhawke was just incorporated to Kryta.
That would explain why the emissary for the crown is from Ebonhawke.

That is an interesting theory. And would make a lot of sense as to why the teaser page was “vandalized.”

But as of now, the terms of the alliance appear to be just “If Ebonhawke agrees to enter into a peace treaty with the Charr, Kryta will provide Ebonhawke with aid.”

Avatara.1042:

Sitkaz.5463:

Newbies in my guild often ask “Where is Kyrta?” or “Where is such and such daily event?” I think Ebonhawke is considered Kryta for these achieves because it’s easier to think of Kryta as “any human settlement” than explain the history of each region to each newbie before they’ve encountered much lore. As far as I’m concerned the people arguing that they’re different are right. I just don’t think it was sloppiness on Arenanet’s part. I think it was a choice.

It, and the area it is in, count for Ascalon dailies/kills, though.

Huh. Well there goes that theory, then.

“Their kingdoms, once spanning the entire continent, lie in ruins, leaving only Kryta.” (-)

“The human race is governed by a hereditary monarch and a body of ministers which contains representatives of all the human nationalities.” (-) (—)

Are the people of Ebonhawk mostly comprised of descendants of the founders from Ascalon? Yes (‘The people who control this fortress are the last patriots of Ascalon…’ Ebonhawk wiki page)
Does the kingdom of Ascalon still exist? No
Does ones ancestry automatically determine ones citizenry? No

All humans on the continent of Tyria (aside from the people living in the free state of Lions Arch) are considered citizens of Kryta according to Anet.

In neither the Ebonhawk page nor the Ascalon Settlement page (or anywhere else that I could find) does it say that they are self-governed. Also, nowhere does it say that they are not, but since Anet has decided that the dignitary of Kryta comes from Ebonhawk, it’s safe to say that they consider Ebonhawk to be Krytan.

(-) Both quotes taken directly from the human wiki page.
(—) Taken from the first paragraph of the Government section of the page.

^Again, please talk to the npcs/overhear conversations between them.
The Fallen Angels are in Ebonhawke because the Queen has interests there (the peace treaty). That’s what one of them says, I’m not just deducing it. Nothing about this statement implies that the Queen governs Ebonhawke.
The people of Ascalon Settlement do not recognize Queen Jennah as their ruler. Talk to them. They are not happy with the presence of the Seraph.

I prefer to take into account information that is in the game.

Edit: The kingdom of Ascalon does not exist anymore. However, the nation of Ascalon does.

Gabby.3205:

^Again, please talk to the npcs/overhear conversations between them.
The Fallen Angels are in Ebonhawke because the Queen has interests there (the peace treaty). That’s what one of them says, I’m not just deducing it. Nothing about this statement implies that the Queen governs Ebonhawke.
The people of Ascalon Settlement do not recognize Queen Jennah as their ruler. Talk to them. They are not happy with the presence of the Seraph.

I prefer to take into account information that is in the game.

Edit: The kingdom of Ascalon does not exist anymore. However, the nation of Ascalon does.

Just because NPCs are disagreeing with something doesn’t mean it ceases to exist.
Jennah is the regent of Ascalon therefore it is part of her Kingdom, her kingdom being Kryta this makes Ascalon part of Kryta and abider to the laws of Kryta.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Queen_Jennah

alexjolly.1463:

Just because NPCs are disagreeing with something doesn’t mean it ceases to exist.
Jennah is the regent of Ascalon therefore it is part of her Kingdom, her kingdom being Kryta this makes Ascalon part of Kryta and abider to the laws of Kryta.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Queen_Jennah

To the Wiki again, then.
“In 1320 AE, Queen Jennah had the asura gate fixed after years of mismanagement and created a stronger alliance between Kryta and Ebonhawke, allowing refuge and support for those within the city fortress. "
Alliance. Not incorporation. Two different things.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ebonhawke

I believe this was mentioned already.

It’s like Alaska. It’s attached to Canada, but it’s part of the U.S. You wouldn’t say Alaska is part of Canada, so maybe Ebonhawke isn’t part of Ascalon.

That’s the way I’m gonna stretch this.

The citizens of Ebonhawke view themselves as Ascalonians though, not Krytans. (In fact, some members of the Ascalon Settlement in Gendarran Fields still think of themselves as Ascalonians, even though they are technically Krytan citizens.) It’s a bit of a strange mix between geopolitical interests and cultural heritage, like how if you are of English heritage, but your family moved to India and you were born there. Although India is for all intents and purposes your home, your parents’ attitudes and the fact that you look quite different to the Indian locals means you’d probably think of yourself as English rather than Indian.

Paken Kai.5970:

In neither the Ebonhawk page nor the Ascalon Settlement page (or anywhere else that I could find) does it say that they are self-governed. Also, nowhere does it say that they are not, but since Anet has decided that the dignitary of Kryta comes from Ebonhawk, it’s safe to say that they consider Ebonhawk to be Krytan.

Given that the entire point of this thread is to point out that Anet may have made a mistake in associating the Ebonhawke Emissary with Kryta, there is nothing “safe” in saying that they consider Ebonhawke to be Krytan. That would be begging the question.

If I remember correctly Samuelson is a Duke that has sworn fealty to Queen Jennah.

So technically speaking Ebonhawke is the capital of the Duchy of Ascalon, under Queen Jennah of the Kingdom of Kryta

Also, really… no matter where the city I believe this is more about the races than kingdoms, there is no Kingdom of Ascalon anymore after all. Besides the concept of a kingdom or a monarchy seems to be limited to humans, the other races are each governed very differently. Point being there is only one political entity that is exclusively human.

And, you don’t represent the political entity but the races (with the exception of LA, being race neutral) as far as I recall.

Crise.9401:

Also, really… no matter where the city I believe this is more about the races than kingdoms, there is no Kingdom of Ascalon anymore after all. Besides the concept of a kingdom or a monarchy seems to be limited to humans, the other races are each governed very differently. Point being there is only one political entity that is exclusively human.

And, you don’t represent the political entity but the races (with the exception of LA, being race neutral) as far as I recall.

The daily is ‘Represent Kryta.’ The buff is Ebonhawke.

Pacifica.9576:

If I remember correctly Samuelson is a Duke that has sworn fealty to Queen Jennah.

So technically speaking Ebonhawke is the capital of the Duchy of Ascalon, under Queen Jennah of the Kingdom of Kryta

Player: “I’m sorry, who are you again?”
Commander Samuelsson: “My name’s Commander Samuelsson, and I am the Duke of Ebonhawke.”

Player: “By what authority do you rule this city?”
Commander Samuelsson: “My forefathers were kings of Ascalon, and I’ll be kitten ed if I let those renegades destroy their last legacy!”

Player: “Who are the Ebon Vanguard? Are they part of Kryta?”
Commander Samuelsson: “We are sons and daughters of Ascalon. Jennah is our ally – but not our Queen.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Fragile_Peace

I think in this case, “Krytan” really just means “Human”. I mean, yes, it is in Ascalon, and most likely still filled with Acalonians, but these days…Well, I think Charr are the new Ascalonians, if you know what I mean.