Guild Wars 2

As a helpful note to all players, contrary to the complains being placed on the forums, there’s no such thing as “RNG” with Liadri.

RNG means Random Number Generator. This would be the equivalent of the term “luck of the draw” when it comes to loot or chests. Most people who say that there’s luck or RNG associated are using the incorrect term. What they mean is the Liadri fight requires skill. Those without it (myself included) usually suffer the agony of defeat.

Everything with the fight has patterns. From the frequency, pattern, and shape of the 1-hit mechanics, to the timing of the orb spawns and pulls, to the amount of time you have to finish the fight. Hit her three times with the crystal thingies that you throw at her, she then starts to gank you. It’s all there each and every matchup. The problem is, because you are so focused on the fight, somethings you don’t see the patterns that present themselves. This is partly the reason why people make up complaints like luck or RNG, since fighting and watching from above at two different perspectives.

As I’ve mentioned in other threads, the only time Lady Luck plays a factor is when you beat Liadri with failed strategies.

The Orb/Rifts have timing patterns but you’re incorrect to deny there is no randomness or luck to the fight whatsoever.

Whilst the orbs have set spawning locations, which one of them it spawns in seems to be entirely random. Combine this with the AoE field with set positions and sometimes the orbs will kill you, sometimes they’ll actually pull you to safety and save the fight.

Because of the nature of their spawns, it’s entirely possible for an orb to spawn on the other side of the room during Phase 2 when you can’t easily cross and then to activate it’s pull just as the AoE is detonating underneath it.

The orbs not spawning in the same set locations compared to everything else seems an oversight on ANet’s part. It is something that is genuinely down to luck in an otherwise well designed and pattern based fight.

liadri is as much RNG based as megaman bosses.

There’s still a luck factor involved. Sometimes I’m just extra focused. Sometimes I did not tap my keys correctly. Sometimes my cat jumped on my desk which led me to notice with the corner of my eye that there’s a Liadri shadow almost about to touch me.

However, Liadri’s MECHANICS are not random at all.

Null.9743:

The Orb/Rifts have timing patterns but you’re incorrect to deny there is no randomness or luck to the fight whatsoever.

Whilst the orbs have set spawning locations, which one of them it spawns in seems to be entirely random. Combine this with the AoE field with set positions and sometimes the orbs will kill you, sometimes they’ll actually pull you to safety and save the fight.

Because of the nature of their spawns, it’s entirely possible for an orb to spawn on the other side of the room during Phase 2 when you can’t easily cross and then to activate it’s pull just as the AoE is detonating underneath it.

The orbs not spawning in the same set locations compared to everything else seems an oversight on ANet’s part. It is something that is genuinely down to luck in an otherwise well designed and pattern based fight.

I’m pretty sure it also depends on what gauntlet arena you go to. If you stick to one, the orb pattern tends to be the same

I haven’t watched enough to see whether the orbs follow the same set of patterns every time (and it’s just a matter of which set you get) or whether they’re randomized, but they’re certainly not as predictable as the wells or the AoE field. They certainly have multiple possible starting locations, but I never bothered to track whether they all followed the same patterns thereafter. Without any onscreen timer or any real warning about their spawns you can’t predictably know where/when to look to keep track of them; that’s not exactly randomness, but being how hampered your field of view in the arena is it’s not pure skill either.

There is also of course the issue of not all arenas playing the same exactly, which may or may not matter. Just something else to keep track of if you notice it being an issue.

iddles.9280:

Null.9743:

The Orb/Rifts have timing patterns but you’re incorrect to deny there is no randomness or luck to the fight whatsoever.

Whilst the orbs have set spawning locations, which one of them it spawns in seems to be entirely random. Combine this with the AoE field with set positions and sometimes the orbs will kill you, sometimes they’ll actually pull you to safety and save the fight.

Because of the nature of their spawns, it’s entirely possible for an orb to spawn on the other side of the room during Phase 2 when you can’t easily cross and then to activate it’s pull just as the AoE is detonating underneath it.

The orbs not spawning in the same set locations compared to everything else seems an oversight on ANet’s part. It is something that is genuinely down to luck in an otherwise well designed and pattern based fight.

I’m pretty sure it also depends on what gauntlet arena you go to. If you stick to one, the orb pattern tends to be the same

I’d heard the pattern of the pools is exactly the same as long as you remain in the same arena but I’ve not heard this about the orbs.

You could be correct however, I often changed arenas due to queues when I was fighting Liadra so it may have seemed more random to me than it actually is.

Null.9743:

The Orb/Rifts have timing patterns but you’re incorrect to deny there is no randomness or luck to the fight whatsoever.

Whilst the orbs have set spawning locations, which one of them it spawns in seems to be entirely random. Combine this with the AoE field with set positions and sometimes the orbs will kill you, sometimes they’ll actually pull you to safety and save the fight.

Because of the nature of their spawns, it’s entirely possible for an orb to spawn on the other side of the room during Phase 2 when you can’t easily cross and then to activate it’s pull just as the AoE is detonating underneath it.

The orbs not spawning in the same set locations compared to everything else seems an oversight on ANet’s part. It is something that is genuinely down to luck in an otherwise well designed and pattern based fight.

the orbs like to take their time before they pull. more than enough time to cross the arena and take it down before a second AoE lands

I believe that the orbs take at least 3 seconds to form, then another few seconds to activate. That’s usually enough time to get to one and kill them. But there is a pattern as to the timing of the orb spawns.

Complaining that the fight is RNG is usually an excuse to not being able to complete it.

Even if the rifts are “RNG”. They have around 5 seconds until they pull you. They die in one hit. So if you have an AOE attack they should be trivial. If you fail to see it then it’s really your fault.

There is definitely an excess of people complaining the fight is ‘RNG’. After finally beating it I realised the majority of the raging at her I’d done previously was the result of my own failures, not because of luck.

However I do still think the orbs should have their locations fixed since they decided to make a pattern out of everything else.

lol the only RNG I seemed to have encountered was whether or not my rifle shots would get ‘obstructed’ for shooting the orbs or not.

Even if the orbs are RNG and we are not fast enough to get out of the way of the aoe, downed skills can destroy them, so we can rez from the downed state.

From my understanding, you can’t used Ranged attacks (bow, pistol, rifle) to kill the orbs.

Baladir.2736:

Even if the orbs are RNG and we are not fast enough to get out of the way of the aoe, downed skills can destroy them, so we can rez from the downed state.

I always attack orbs from downed position if they pull me into AoE but from some reason it does not always work before I die completly. Either becouse they take more than one hit from downed skill to kill or perhaps the obstructed glitch/mechanic manifests itself again. Not to mention the fact that getting downed in this fight is a serious blow to your chance of success for some professions specs (assuming you manage to rally). In particular those more squishy ones. Loosing 80% of HP bar becouse of an orb pull may put you behind and soon another KO will follow. I beat her on my zerker thief but she was damaging me with her charge attack for 7000 HP which was more than 50% of my max HP. Therefore my “strategy” for beating her was basically: “keep running around the arena while spamming DPS and waiting for that one try where I get lucky with the orbs”. And that try did come. And yes. It was based on luck. I won becouse I had luck and in previous tries I had not. Therefore I conclude that this encounter is luck based to some extent. Now working on 8-orb on my guardian. From the looks of it I will need massive luck with orbs to complete it. After several tries and doing some math I am pretty confident that all I need now is luck with orbs. Again luck.

And yes. It was based on luck. I won becouse I had luck and in previous tries I had not. Therefore I conclude that this encounter is luck based to some extent

No.

Null.9743:

iddles.9280:

Null.9743:

The Orb/Rifts have timing patterns but you’re incorrect to deny there is no randomness or luck to the fight whatsoever.

Whilst the orbs have set spawning locations, which one of them it spawns in seems to be entirely random. Combine this with the AoE field with set positions and sometimes the orbs will kill you, sometimes they’ll actually pull you to safety and save the fight.

Because of the nature of their spawns, it’s entirely possible for an orb to spawn on the other side of the room during Phase 2 when you can’t easily cross and then to activate it’s pull just as the AoE is detonating underneath it.

The orbs not spawning in the same set locations compared to everything else seems an oversight on ANet’s part. It is something that is genuinely down to luck in an otherwise well designed and pattern based fight.

I’m pretty sure it also depends on what gauntlet arena you go to. If you stick to one, the orb pattern tends to be the same

I’d heard the pattern of the pools is exactly the same as long as you remain in the same arena but I’ve not heard this about the orbs.

You could be correct however, I often changed arenas due to queues when I was fighting Liadra so it may have seemed more random to me than it actually is.

I always fight in the arena with the human ringleader (I like his top hat), and the orb spawn location is random between 3 of the 4 locations each time, this even happens at the start, sometimes the orb will spawn right next to me, sometimes it’ll spawn across the room, sometimes it’ll spawn under the first explosions etc.

Not to mention that there’s also the RNG of “Will you be obstructed this time!?” And “will my pet magically dodge the AoEs in P1 and live longer than one auto in P2?” Then there’s also the whole, “will the vision kill me for no reason as its in the middle of the vortex? Or will it become a crystal like its supposed to?”

“will my pet magically dodge the AoEs in P1 and live longer than one auto in P2?”

Forget the pet. The pet is dead. It’s just how it is. You can still DPS her down without it in the given time. (Though I do agree it’s a little unfair to Rangers here)

“will the vision kill me for no reason as its in the middle of the vortex? Or will it become a crystal like its supposed to?”

Why are you standing IN the vortex? Don’t do that.

Bovinity.8610:

And yes. It was based on luck. I won becouse I had luck and in previous tries I had not. Therefore I conclude that this encounter is luck based to some extent

No.

Care to elaborate rather than implying that I am mentally handicapped? If was able to beat her thanks to luck, why loosing becouse of bad luck is impossible?

Care to elaborate rather than implying that I am mentally handicapped? If was able to beat her thanks to luck, why loosing becouse of bad luck is impossible?

Because it’s not luck. Once you have the pattern down, you can beat her every single time. If I had the time and inclination, I could probably go in with my Necro and win 100% of the time just because the pattern for completing the encounter is the same each time.

The only thing that’s “luck” about what you did is that you probably just stumbled into “doing it right” one time without knowing it.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

From my understanding, you can’t used Ranged attacks (bow, pistol, rifle) to kill the orbs.

While I never got a successful pistol shot at them, I can tell you for sure that I’ve sometimes hit them with my shortbow. The randomness in this bug does however not become obvious until you try to rally on them – I throw one projectile at them, obstructed. I throw another projectile on them, from the exact same position at a target in the exact same position, hit, rally.
Whether you’ll hit them or not I think depends on the exact starting position that your projectile is sent from, which is randomized (try guardian scepter 1, as the most obvious example, and you’ll see that some of the projectiles come from you left and some from you right). The slightly randomized projectile path combined with an odd hit box makes projectiles randomly miss, and since most of them do… well, they might want to take a look at that.

Bovinity.8610:

Care to elaborate rather than implying that I am mentally handicapped? If was able to beat her thanks to luck, why loosing becouse of bad luck is impossible?

Because it’s not luck. Once you have the pattern down, you can beat her every single time. If I had the time and inclination, I could probably go in with my Necro and win 100% of the time just because the pattern for completing the encounter is the same each time.

The only thing that’s “luck” about what you did is that you probably just stumbled into “doing it right” one time without knowing it.

I still believe that cosmic orb spawn location is randomized (unlike rifts). Will test this tomorrow on single arena to get conclusive data.

I still believe that cosmic orb spawn location is randomized (unlike rifts). Will test this tomorrow on single arena to get conclusive data.

Even if Orbs are random (which I doubt, but possible) it’s barely even a factor. Worst case scenario is that an orb will pull you into Shadowfall, and even then you can rally off the orb.

(Yes, sometimes the orb is bugged, but that’s not RNG in the fight mechanics itself.)

Actually Spawns orbs and rifts are luck based (not truly random), but not because the reasons one might think, its because not all arenas are the same and the fight doesnt rotate with them/the map.

What is RNG is blind, when the camera decides to spaz out and her attack patterns.

Andele.1306:

Actually Spawns orbs and rifts are luck based (not truly random), but not because the reasons one might think, its because not all arenas are the same and the fight doesnt rotate with them/the map.

What is RNG is blind, when the camera decides to spaz out and her attack patterns.

Blind can be disabled by setting post-processing to “off”.

If you’re not paying attention to your surroundings, you won’t see the orb’s spawn tells. So then, if you leave them along long enough, they pull you. It’s a pretty simple concept.

It’s not luck to kill the orbs, it’s skill.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If you’re not paying attention to your surroundings, you won’t see the orb’s spawn tells. So then, if you leave them along long enough, they pull you. It’s a pretty simple concept.

It’s not luck to kill the orbs, it’s skill.

An orb can spawn right in front of me and for about 5 seconds all I see is ‘obstructed’ whilst it pulls me. Tell me again how its skill.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

From my understanding, you can’t used Ranged attacks (bow, pistol, rifle) to kill the orbs.

Well you can’t use direct ranged attacks, but you can plant ranged attacks…in my case (Guardian), I can plant scepter 2 or staff 3 on it to kill orbs. Staff 1 also never misses. I never try an melee them.

Well you can’t use direct ranged attacks, but you can plant ranged attacks…in my case (Guardian), I can plant scepter 2 or staff 3 on it to kill orbs. Staff 1 also never misses. I never try an melee them.

Also, any ranged attack that doesn’t rely on a projectile (Necro Scepter 1) will kill them.

It’s really just projectiles, which have ALWAYS had issues in this game. =/

Null.9743:

Andele.1306:

Actually Spawns orbs and rifts are luck based (not truly random), but not because the reasons one might think, its because not all arenas are the same and the fight doesnt rotate with them/the map.

What is RNG is blind, when the camera decides to spaz out and her attack patterns.

Blind can be disabled by setting post-processing to “off”.

That should not be a option nor is it a fix, broken game design must be removed by the developers, not bandaided by the user.
Same thing applies to camera and attacking objects.

RNG or random number generator is literally just another term for luck,
if something requires a number 3 in the random number generator to get it, then guess what. you better be lucky enough for the generator to pick 3.

if you think RNG does not mean luck then you really need to do some research, RNG is just internet speak for luck since you are on a computer and when getting things that dont always drop on a computer generated game, its going to rely on a RNG.

and if you think that liadri does not require you to have the favor of the RNG gods then you just simply got lucky and don’t know it.

and if you think that liadri does not require you to have the favor of the RNG gods then you just simply got lucky and don’t know it.

So those of us can that consistently beat it now, we’re….magically delicious or something?

Dagraan.2854:

RNG or random number generator is literally just another term for luck,
if something requires a number 3 in the random number generator to get it, then guess what. you better be lucky enough for the generator to pick 3.

if you think RNG does not mean luck then you really need to do some research, RNG is just internet speak for luck since you are on a computer and when getting things that dont always drop on a computer generated game, its going to rely on a RNG.

and if you think that liadri does not require you to have the favor of the RNG gods then you just simply got lucky and don’t know it.

RNG =/= actually random
RNG is in set parameters, something being actually random meand that it (like the movement changes of electrons in changing frequency fields) cannot be predicted, something/someone being lucky means he had no actual chance to influence a result (something you can do in well designed RNG systems, reason why mathematicians with good attention for detail can always win at card games and why there are ways to cheat a slot machine).

Bovinity.8610:

and if you think that liadri does not require you to have the favor of the RNG gods then you just simply got lucky and don’t know it.

So those of us can that consistently beat it now, we’re….magically delicious or something?

I want your lucky charms. ;p
It seems to be more related to weapon/skillset more than anything overall. If you aren’t using a certain set, you are typically boned by some of the RNG flaws in the dome. Such as using projectile weapons against orbs.

Talonblaze.3175:

I want your lucky charms. ;p
It seems to be more related to weapon/skillset more than anything overall. If you aren’t using a certain set, you are typically boned by some of the RNG flaws in the dome. Such as using projectile weapons against orbs.

Projectiles aint so much rng, its a well already known problem/bug with hit detection that for our knowledge cannot be fixed so easy, the camera however is known just to be lazy design because hacks of the dat file not only unlocked its zoom (to way above the dragon cam level and to first person mode), but also its collision (but it doesnt put a invsibility filter on textures for the viewer like stealth for a enemy does).

There are only 3 random factors in the fight:
- In which of the available positions (4 in total iirc) the orbs spawn.
- How far from the center/close to the walls the light pits spawn (only, and the variation is small. Their radial placement and order is always the same).
- Which attack Liandri herself will use when in phase 2 (as far as I bothered to check at least, might actually have a pattern).

Ultimately except for some reaaaaally poor luck, which is super rare, it doesn’t matter. The people saying it’s luck based are simply bad players that fell in the old trap of complaining about things instead of learning to beat them.

Bovinity.8610:

“will my pet magically dodge the AoEs in P1 and live longer than one auto in P2?”

Forget the pet. The pet is dead. It’s just how it is. You can still DPS her down without it in the given time. (Though I do agree it’s a little unfair to Rangers here)

“will the vision kill me for no reason as its in the middle of the vortex? Or will it become a crystal like its supposed to?”

Why are you standing IN the vortex? Don’t do that.

I did forget the pet, it’s why I don’t play my ranger anymore since Anet likes to make BS to kitten them every patch.

And I don’t stand IN the vortex I stand on the far side (or push them in, but that’s never killed me) and sometimes they will walk all the way through the vortex to my side, kill me, rally me, and leave a crystal…

Got a question for the devs…did you intend to allow people to be grouped while in the gauntlet to allow targeting? I would think this would be an exploit since this is a solo fight.

Amun Ra.6435:

Got a question for the devs…did you intend to allow people to be grouped while in the gauntlet to allow targeting? I would think this would be an exploit since this is a solo fight.

really? having someone tag stuff for you is an exploit?

might as well say asking for a couple guardians to empower you is exploiting.

Dagraan.2854:

and if you think that liadri does not require you to have the favor of the RNG gods then you just simply got lucky and don’t know it.

Please re-read the title of this thread.

Luck does not equal skill. Skill does not equal luck. This fight requires SKILL. Is it luck that I’m able to dodge the 1-hit AOE that comes crashing down on my head? No. There’s a timer for each and every one. Learn the timing, and roll out of the way.

Also, killing orbs isn’t luck based either. If you’re trying to Range projectile it, you will fail. Run up and melee it with 1 strike. Done.

BrunoBRS.5178:

liadri is as much RNG based as megaman bosses.

Dude if this game was half as hard as classic mega man, can you imagine the forum complaints?

Chopps.5047:

BrunoBRS.5178:

liadri is as much RNG based as megaman bosses.

Dude if this game was half as hard as classic mega man, can you imagine the forum complaints?

If this game was as hard as dark souls, people would die alot, but have fun and learn from their mistakes.

Thomassassinate.9370:

Chopps.5047:

BrunoBRS.5178:

liadri is as much RNG based as megaman bosses.

Dude if this game was half as hard as classic mega man, can you imagine the forum complaints?

If this game was as hard as dark souls, people would die alot, but have fun and learn from their mistakes.

not really, going by the reaction here.

Agreed. Liadri is very easy if you understand the mechanics.

The orbs are very much luck-based. From when they pull you, to where they spawn.

even if liandi doen’t require luck (IF) it’s still stupid the punishing mechanic behind a failed try. There is a huge gold (or time) sink just to try one time and sometimes a single try lasts only mere seconds.

I completed both dark soul and demon sould (1000) and they are not as hard as this boss.
Maybe i’ll complete but it’s not related to me being more skilled than anyone else.

What was that one game? Ninja Gaiden? I remember that being a challenge.

There are two random factors in the fight. The Gravity Rifts pulling you, which will change positions between fights, even in the same arena. And the blinding effect that you can “cheat” around and turn off through disabling Post Processing, which most people who beats her and say there’s no RNG to the fight have done, that much is obvious. I agree that the fight is not overly complicated once you learn your patterns though. But some luck will likely be involved in the runs where you do win (Gravity Rifts popping where you quickly kill them, and the blind effect occuring while you are in a safe spot (unless you “cheat” and turn it off of course)).

The arena however, is quite frankly and in my opinion undeniably terribly designed. The camera does get cramped, and I noticed it being far easier to get my bearings with a tiny Asura, since at least the camera rather zoomed in towards the top of her head, unlike when it was staring at my buttox while I was on my tallest possible Norn, smallest possible Charr or tallest possible Human in example. That makes a difference, and it shouldn’t have been designed in this way when they are fully aware of their own camera limitations.

The flooring is even worse, but this comes mainly from the perspective of being color weak and/or blind—I am the former, color weak. I was completely unable to see any red circles at all during these fights. Were you? With the camera issues, combining with the inability to even see a red circle, it became a lot of trial and error until I had my own perfect movement from point A, to point B, to point C, to point D, etc.—perhaps you would have been rather irked off as well, if they had for this encounter completely disabled red circles? If I recall correctly, they can be turned off in the options as well, so why don’t you devote one token to doing the fight while they’re disabled to get that perspective of things? Do you think it is as easy now? Or is this making it more annoying? Poor game design != challenge, poor game design == poor game design.

I was able to overcome it, but that doesn’t mean the encounter is perfectly fine. As for not being as random as some people may think, yes I agree on this, but saying nothing is random, that’s not true.

Random is a concept, as soon as code is created to imitate this concept it is no longer random. QED.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

From my understanding, you can’t used Ranged attacks (bow, pistol, rifle) to kill the orbs.

You can use Ranged attacks IN MELEE RANGE to kill the orbs. It’s just wierd but keep that in mind so you don’t have to switch weapons. Also, if you’re downed, autoattack seems to work at range for some reason.