Guild Wars 2

Ok, after beating Liadri, I thought I’d point out some issues I’ve come across when fighting her.

AoE rings blend in really well with the floor.
I mean they blend in really, really, REALLY well with the floor. As other topics have said, it’s incredibly difficult to see them. To be honest, this seems more like an inherent flaw with the ground targeting “artwork” that has been made much more apparent. Why aren’t there any colors that can make the red, thin AoE outlines stand out? Why not make the AoE rings into an actual AoE field with a repeating pattern that rises from the floor to show where an AoE attack is about to hit?

Pressure. Lots of it:

1. Time – you have two minutes
2. Grasping claws – constantly firing off
3. Insta-kill shadowfall
4. Insta-kill clones
5. Kill cosmic rifts before they pull you

That’s a lot of pressure elements and while you guys (dev team) might laugh or smirk at my assumptions (most players only see the tip of the iceberg here folks), I think that the so called “challenge” is the ability to manage all of the pressure that you are under.

If you ask me, that is frustrating. Just off the top of my head, the most memorable one-on-one fights I’ve ever experienced happened in Devil May Cry 3. The fights against Virgil were truly challenging and I honestly was hoping for the Queen’s Gauntlet fights to be similar to those fights.

If I had to be specific about what I’m talking about for those fights, I’m talking about the “tell” of his attacks, his counter attacks, the amount of times you can actually hit him before he performs a counter, how he can CC you, the frequency of his attacks, and his various counters.

One hit knock outs aren’t challenging, they’re frustrating and feel cheap.
The point of being challenging is to push players to the brink of their skill. If you have fights that combine past mechanics, that’s fine. But when you have a fight that combines past mechanics and introduces more than one new mechanic, then things are no longer going to feel challenging (at least for me).

Frustrating gauntlet mechanics seem to bring the worse out in people.
I’ve been in situations where people don’t even bother to rez you since that would somehow take away their precious time in the arenas. It doesn’t help that you die outside instead of appearing back alive.

It seems to me that this was intended to be a gold/consumable sink what with the high amount of deaths that a player is likely to face. I don’t know about other players, but I burned through all my achievement chest rez orbs (selfish people), more than 2/3rds of my repair canisters, and a medley of consumables.

Various other issues

1. Targeting is crap.
2. Camera zoom inside close quarters (near walls/solid objects).

You actually have longer than 2 minutes.
If they weren’t insta kill it’d be too easy… and you can block/evade, that’s very forgiving.
Grasping claws can be dodged with movement only.
Also, the rifts only pull you. If you keep track of the darkness you can use it at your advantage as well.

To me this kind of felt like one of those mario games in one of those maps where the screen kept on going and you had to avoid all of the shots fired at you. If you removed all the shots fired at you it’d be super easy… but that’s the point of the map.

I’ve gained more money from it then I’ve spent. And I haven’t farmed it. And that’s simply because of the 3.5g that you got from the bags. That’s about 90 tickets you get to buy with, aside from getting 5 per character. So I doubt it’s much of a money sink to most people.

Í’ve read a lot of comments about this boss and for the first time I have to disagree with people. In all honesty for the first time I’m getting somewhat sick of people complaining about this.

Lots of people say that it’s luck based and that it’s cheap to 1 shot kill you. After spending 80 tickets on just normal kill and another 100+ tickets on Light up the darkness achievement, I can safely say that it is NOT luck based fight.

If you are only after the kill, it’s quite simple. First phase is ridiculously easy once you learn the pattern, you can finish it in 30 seconds. Second phase you just run around the circle and 9 times out of 10 you’ll be in a safe spot if you just keep moving.

It’s not about luck, it’s about endurance, dedication and awareness. Eventually you’ll get so used to the fight, that you automatically do every ability right and evade all 1 shot moves. Just keep at it.

PS. The timer is around 4.30-5.00 minutes, not 2 minutes.

Edit: The timer should be 10-30 secs longer though to make it easier for non-zerg players though. With that I agree.

The fight is fine except the camera issue and timer. I’d give it 10-20 more seconds.

It’s all about trial & error. You must repeat is so many times you get used to it. Just like riding a bike, playing a guitar, … And noone argues playing a guitar isn’t skillful.

I want more of the same content. More hard stuff please. At least one hardcore thingy per update. Anet is already catering too much to casual players. Let us who want more hard stuff have at least one thing per update. Please? Pretty please?

Kapina.9012:

Í’ve read a lot of comments about this boss and for the first time I have to disagree with people. In all honesty for the first time I’m getting somewhat sick of people complaining about this.

Lots of people say that it’s luck based and that it’s cheap to 1 shot kill you. After spending 80 tickets on just normal kill and another 100+ tickets on Light up the darkness achievement, I can safely say that it is NOT luck based fight.

If you are only after the kill, it’s quite simple. First phase is ridiculously easy once you learn the pattern, you can finish it in 30 seconds. Second phase you just run around the circle and 9 times out of 10 you’ll be in a safe spot if you just keep moving.

It’s not about luck, it’s about endurance, dedication and awareness. Eventually you’ll get so used to the fight, that you automatically do every ability right and evade all 1 shot moves. Just keep at it.

PS. The timer is around 4.30-5.00 minutes, not 2 minutes.

Edit: The timer should be 10-30 secs longer though to make it easier for non-zerg players though. With that I agree.

I don’t remember mentioning anything on my post about RNGs. I did mention that one shots do feel cheap which you mentioned.

As for the increased timer, where was this information conveyed? I was operating under the assumption that all matches were two minutes and if I knew that I had more time, I would have made a lot less mistakes.

Don’t forget about lag and skill lag messing up a lot of people while inside the dome. Can’t tell you how many times I died due to my toon not picking up the crystal after I pressed F three times.

That’s a lot of pressure elements and while you guys (dev team) might laugh or smirk at my assumptions (most players only see the tip of the iceberg here folks), I think that the so called “challenge” is the ability to manage all of the pressure that you are under.

What is it about the gaming community that makes them always feel the need to re-define what “challenge” or “skill” means, anyway? Has to be one of the most annoying things about any discussion.

One hit knock outs aren’t challenging, they’re frustrating and feel cheap.

Then ask ANet to remove the dodge system or do something else with it. In a game where, “Avoid ALL the damage!” is actually a pretty reasonable goal, about the only way to make encounters threatening is to make the damage completely overwhelming when it does manage to land.

DanteZero.9736:

Frustrating gauntlet mechanics seem to bring the worse out in people.

Not to mention all the elitists who think they’re “hardcore” now because they beat Liadri once out of 70+ tries, then come on the forum talking about how it isn’t that hard, and praise Anet for creating content that alienates most of their player base and want more of it.

I’m okay with punishing hardcore content, but mixing it in with casual content is stupid. Creaitng a gauntlet in which 90% of people will probably never complete is poor game design. They could easily have removed the orbs from Liadri to make the fight fair, then had a “hard mode” battle with the orbs for the few people who like dieing repeatedly.

Bovinity.8610:

Then ask ANet to remove the dodge system or do something else with it. In a game where, “Avoid ALL the damage!” is actually a pretty reasonable goal, about the only way to make encounters threatening is to make the damage completely overwhelming when it does manage to land.

Dodge is negated when an orb spawns across the arena and you can’t get to it and it pulls you into the shadow bast or clones and you die instantly.

Not to mention all the elitists who think they’re “hardcore” now because they beat Liadri once out of 70+ tries, then come on the forum talking about how it isn’t that hard

I keep seeing posts like this, claiming that somewhere these “hardcore” people are being all elitist and mean and saying the fight isn’t hard.

Almost every post on this board by someone that has beat it is simply saying, “It IS possible. It’s not RNG. You CAN do it. Here’s some tips for it.”

It’s funny how that gets skewed like this. Maybe the idea that it’s not impossible is threatening to some people because “Its Impossible” is how they’ve rationalized their failures thus far. I dunno.

Bottom line though? You CAN do it. You want some ideas, some class-specific tips or something, some strategies to try, just ask. All of this raging doesn’t help.

Creaitng a gauntlet in which 90% of people will probably never complete is poor game design.

Totally not a made up statistic, right?

Dodge is negated when an orb spawns across the arena and you can’t get to it and it pulls you into the shadow bast or clones and you die instantly.

That’s not really the point. The game design is such that you can evade most damage in almost any encounter. Because of that, hits HAVE to be extremely hard when they do land.

But as to your point, yes the orb pulls into a Shadowfall do happen and they do suck. They also give you a chance to rally off of it. (Granted, the obstructed thing is annoying.) Most classes also have ample opportunities to kill orbs before they get their pull off.

DanteZero.9736:

Kapina.9012:

Í’ve read a lot of comments about this boss and for the first time I have to disagree with people. In all honesty for the first time I’m getting somewhat sick of people complaining about this.

Lots of people say that it’s luck based and that it’s cheap to 1 shot kill you. After spending 80 tickets on just normal kill and another 100+ tickets on Light up the darkness achievement, I can safely say that it is NOT luck based fight.

If you are only after the kill, it’s quite simple. First phase is ridiculously easy once you learn the pattern, you can finish it in 30 seconds. Second phase you just run around the circle and 9 times out of 10 you’ll be in a safe spot if you just keep moving.

It’s not about luck, it’s about endurance, dedication and awareness. Eventually you’ll get so used to the fight, that you automatically do every ability right and evade all 1 shot moves. Just keep at it.

PS. The timer is around 4.30-5.00 minutes, not 2 minutes.

Edit: The timer should be 10-30 secs longer though to make it easier for non-zerg players though. With that I agree.

I don’t remember mentioning anything on my post about RNGs. I did mention that one shots do feel cheap which you mentioned.

As for the increased timer, where was this information conveyed? I was operating under the assumption that all matches were two minutes and if I knew that I had more time, I would have made a lot less mistakes.

Well I kinda figured it out once I fell through the floor about 20 times. Since I usually used food item right before I stepped in the arena, it was easy to check how many minutes of the boon had gone after I fell. the timer is around 4 minutes.

Bovinity.8610:

That’s a lot of pressure elements and while you guys (dev team) might laugh or smirk at my assumptions (most players only see the tip of the iceberg here folks), I think that the so called “challenge” is the ability to manage all of the pressure that you are under.

What is it about the gaming community that makes them always feel the need to re-define what “challenge” or “skill” means, anyway? Has to be one of the most annoying things about any discussion.

One hit knock outs aren’t challenging, they’re frustrating and feel cheap.

Then ask ANet to remove the dodge system or do something else with it. In a game where, “Avoid ALL the damage!” is actually a pretty reasonable goal, about the only way to make encounters threatening is to make the damage completely overwhelming when it does manage to land.

To answer your first part, challenge is based on an individual’s preferences. That’s why people redefine it—because there are so many different views that some want to be heard. However, in regards to my statement, I’m not trying to redefine it, but rather, I was trying to point out that it seemed to me that the developers intended for the fight’s difficulty to stem from managing so much pressure (that’s why I listed all those things).

About your second part, incredibly threatening attacks aren’t the only option. Undesirable status effects (not conditions) that punish the player and rapidly builds up over time with each mistake is also a possible route. Incredibly punishing attacks that are one hit knockouts aren’t the only route and I was attempting to point out (rather badly now that I’ve reread my original post for the 5th time) that there are alternatives.

Bovinity.8610:

One hit knock outs aren’t challenging, they’re frustrating and feel cheap.

Then ask ANet to remove the dodge system or do something else with it. In a game where, “Avoid ALL the damage!” is actually a pretty reasonable goal, about the only way to make encounters threatening is to make the damage completely overwhelming when it does manage to land.

I’m going to quote your reply because it was the last one about this; others have made the same point that OHKO damage is necessary, in various threads, so please don’t think I’m singling you out for any reason.

Obligatory disclaimer: I enjoy that this fight is challenging, and I’m glad people are fine with the fight and think it’s fun. I enjoy most of it as well, and I’m enjoying the challenge of defeating her (got her to 5% 3 times and ran out of time all 3), but I believe the fight can be better and more varied.

With that said, I’m still on the side that says one-shot mechanics are boring design. It’s uncreative and an easy/quick way to add challenge when you’re on, say, a 4-month design schedule like the LS teams are and can’t QA anything new properly (not a knock on the teams, btw, it’s just reality). The dodge system has nothing to do with it.

What’s a more creative solution? The arena already has gambits, so how about this: Every time you’re hit by one of Liadra’s (former) OHKOs or her visions, you’re given an uncleansable random gambit (or could be a pattern, like burning first, less damage next, etc). This will allow enough leeway for people to continue on while punishing players for not moving out of the red or avoiding the kamikaze visions and rewarding players who do. This would also make the fight more palatable and give it less of the “RNG” feel that players are, falsely, experiencing.

Another creative alternative: Every time you run into a vision, it morphs into a player class. So instead of fighting just Liadri, you now have to take on, say, a guardian NPC. These extra NPCs can’t be insta-destroyed by the light pools, so you’re essentially giving Liadri an army the more you get caught running into her visions. As far as the OHKO rain of death, it’s solely used in phase 1. The catch: every time it lands, it “poisons” that area of the floor, so every time you step on it you take DoT damage. The DoT strengthens with every “fall” of it, so the longer phase 1 takes, the more damage you’ll take throughout the fight. Essentially, you could have 1/4 of the floor dishing out 50hp/tick, another part 200hp/tick, and a 3rd 400hp/tick. Perhaps running the visions into a light pool will cleanse that area of the arena by 1 notch?

The orbs are perfectly fine, and I like their inclusion in the fight. Without the OHKO mechanics, they would also feel less “cheap”. Plus it’s nice you can use them for rallying.

While these may not be perfect solutions, they’re something I came up with in the past 2 minutes. My point being: There are creative alternatives that can be implemented; the issue is ANet has no time to play with anything different during their 2-week release schedule. The 4 month time limit these teams have is insanely fast, and what we’re experiencing is the growing pains of trying to develop MMOG content in a completely new way.

Which is also why feedback for these fights is necessary. The LS teams are trying to build a vault of various games/mechanics and will refine them as they continue along. We’re essentially the guinea pigs during this first year.

Undesirable status effects (not conditions) that punish the player and rapidly builds up over time with each mistake is also a possible route.

But that simply allows the player to make multiple mistakes and still survive, and in a system where making no mistakes means that the enemy can barely even hit you, being able to make multiple mistakes would throw any encounter into “Extremely Trivial” very quickly.

It really is a core flaw of the combat system design, and as I said before it’s something that people raised concerns about as far back as beta. There are simply too many ways to avoid damage, plus the downed system, plus an assortment of class abilities that give blocks/invulnerability/heals/etc.

With that said, I’m still on the side that says one-shot mechanics are boring design. It’s uncreative and an easy/quick way to add challenge when you’re on, say, a 4-month design schedule like the LS teams are and can’t QA anything new properly (not a knock on the teams, btw, it’s just reality). The dodge system has nothing to do with it.

I agree that it’s boring. That’s why people brought it up as a concern very early on, because it encourages boring mechanics like this. It’s not a QA issue either, it’s the combat system.

What’s a more creative solution? The arena already has gambits, so how about this: Every time you’re hit by one of Liadra’s (former) OHKOs or her visions, you’re given an uncleansable random gambit (or could be a pattern, like burning first, less damage next, etc). This will allow enough leeway for people to continue on while punishing players for not moving out of the red or avoiding the kamikaze visions and rewarding players who do. This would also make the fight more palatable and give it less of the “RNG” feel that players are, falsely, experiencing.

Another creative alternative: Every time you run into a vision, it morphs into a player class. So instead of fighting just Liadri, you now have to take on, say, a guardian NPC. These extra NPCs can’t be insta-destroyed by the light pools, so you’re essentially giving Liadri an army the more you get caught running into her visions. As far as the OHKO rain of death, it’s solely used in phase 1. The catch: every time it lands, it “poisons” that area of the floor, so every time you step on it you take DoT damage. The DoT strengthens with every “fall” of it, so the longer phase 1 takes, the more damage you’ll take throughout the fight. Essentially, you could have 1/4 of the floor dishing out 50hp/tick, another part 200hp/tick, and a 3rd 400hp/tick. Perhaps running the visions into a light pool will cleanse that area of the arena by 1 notch?

While creative, these solutions drain all the challenge out of the fight. That’s the whole point. It’s not that ANet can’t be creative with mechanics (There are a lot of nice mechanics in the Gauntlet) it’s that anything short of “If this hits you, it kills you” makes for incredibly easy fights when you already have a ton of ways to keep it from hitting you.

matjazmuhic.1649:

The fight is fine except the camera issue and timer. I’d give it 10-20 more seconds.

It’s all about trial & error. You must repeat is so many times you get used to it. Just like riding a bike, playing a guitar, … And noone argues playing a guitar isn’t skillful.

I want more of the same content. More hard stuff please. At least one hardcore thingy per update. Anet is already catering too much to casual players. Let us who want more hard stuff have at least one thing per update. Please? Pretty please?

When did challenging and fun become “repeat this event over and over until you have memorized the mechanic thoroughly and can repeat it in your sleep to win”? Good boss fights are ones that introduce mechanics over time and can be beat on the first or second run through (eg: Metroid Prime, never had to do a boss more than twice because learning their mechanics was intuitive and well planned) not one that require as some people have stated, 80 – 180 runs to complete. That is not fun, that is punishing.

Zhavari.7190:

Bovinity.8610:

One hit knock outs aren’t challenging, they’re frustrating and feel cheap.

Then ask ANet to remove the dodge system or do something else with it. In a game where, “Avoid ALL the damage!” is actually a pretty reasonable goal, about the only way to make encounters threatening is to make the damage completely overwhelming when it does manage to land.

I’m going to quote your reply because it was the last one about this; others have made the same point that OHKO damage is necessary, in various threads, so please don’t think I’m singling you out for any reason.

Obligatory disclaimer: I enjoy that this fight is challenging, and I’m glad people are fine with the fight and think it’s fun. I enjoy most of it as well, and I’m enjoying the challenge of defeating her (got her to 5% 3 times and ran out of time all 3), but I believe the fight can be better and more varied.

With that said, I’m still on the side that says one-shot mechanics are boring design. It’s uncreative and an easy/quick way to add challenge when you’re on, say, a 4-month design schedule like the LS teams are and can’t QA anything new properly (not a knock on the teams, btw, it’s just reality). The dodge system has nothing to do with it.

What’s a more creative solution? The arena already has gambits, so how about this: Every time you’re hit by one of Liadra’s (former) OHKOs or her visions, you’re given an uncleansable random gambit (or could be a pattern, like burning first, less damage next, etc). This will allow enough leeway for people to continue on while punishing players for not moving out of the red or avoiding the kamikaze visions and rewarding players who do. This would also make the fight more palatable and give it less of the “RNG” feel that players are, falsely, experiencing.

Another creative alternative: Every time you run into a vision, it morphs into a player class. So instead of fighting just Liadri, you now have to take on, say, a guardian NPC. These extra NPCs can’t be insta-destroyed by the light pools, so you’re essentially giving Liadri an army the more you get caught running into her visions. As far as the OHKO rain of death, it’s solely used in phase 1. The catch: every time it lands, it “poisons” that area of the floor, so every time you step on it you take DoT damage. The DoT strengthens with every “fall” of it, so the longer phase 1 takes, the more damage you’ll take throughout the fight. Essentially, you could have 1/4 of the floor dishing out 50hp/tick, another part 200hp/tick, and a 3rd 400hp/tick. Perhaps running the visions into a light pool will cleanse that area of the arena by 1 notch?

The orbs are perfectly fine, and I like their inclusion in the fight. Without the OHKO mechanics, they would also feel less “cheap”. Plus it’s nice you can use them for rallying.

While these may not be perfect solutions, they’re something I came up with in the past 2 minutes. My point being: There are creative alternatives that can be implemented; the issue is ANet has no time to play with anything different during their 2-week release schedule. The 4 month time limit these teams have is insanely fast, and what we’re experiencing is the growing pains of trying to develop MMOG content in a completely new way.

Which is also why feedback for these fights is necessary. The LS teams are trying to build a vault of various games/mechanics and will refine them as they continue along. We’re essentially the guinea pigs during this first year.

Excellent suggestions and nail on the head. There are much more interesting and challenging ways to approach the OHKO problem than are currently used. Now if only they had time and would use them. Please back off on the launch schedules for better content.

In pretty much every video that I have seen where somebody beat the boss, at some point the player was caught inside the shadowfall, couldn’t get out, and had to dodge.

However, there is no visual or audio tell for when the shadowfall is coming. The only way to know when to dodge is to memorize the timing by dying so many times that you know the timing. This is cheap design. It is not skill, it is just twitch gameplay combined with memorization.

nekretaal.6485:

In pretty much every video that I have seen where somebody beat the boss, at some point the player was caught inside the shadowfall, couldn’t get out, and had to dodge.

However, there is no visual or audio tell for when the shadowfall is coming. The only way to know when to dodge is to memorize the timing by dying so many times that you know the timing. This is cheap design. It is not skill, it is just twitch gameplay combined with memorization.

Or, and I’m just making a suggestion based on this post and am in no way trying to sound snide, they could change the AoE indicators so that it’s much more apparent than using a thin red outline that blends in with the arena floor. Seriously, I wouldn’t mind seeing the indicators have some sort of extra effect so that the area inside the AoE circles are more easily seen.

The hard to see circles are an indicator of WHERE the shadowfall is coming, they are not an indicator of WHEN the shadowfall is coming. The only way you can know when they are coming is by cheaply dying a bunch of times.

The boss is not skill it is just cheap twitch plus memorization.

The hard to see circles are an indicator of WHERE the shadowfall is coming, they are not an indicator of WHEN the shadowfall is coming. The only way you can know when they are coming is by cheaply dying a bunch of times.

It’s not like it varies, or is some hidden secret. You see it one time, you know the timing of it.

Bovinity.8610:

The hard to see circles are an indicator of WHERE the shadowfall is coming, they are not an indicator of WHEN the shadowfall is coming. The only way you can know when they are coming is by cheaply dying a bunch of times.

It’s not like it varies, or is some hidden secret. You see it one time, you know the timing of it.

Well, maybe not the first time. For most, I would assume after quite a few attempts. However, my constant highlighting of the AoE indicators assumes that a player that can properly see the AoE field means they will avoid it. I know it’s a logical fallacy, but I just want to be able to see the enemy AoE fields without having to squint hard at the floor.

DanteZero.9736:

Ok, after beating Liadri, I thought I’d point out some issues I’ve come across when fighting her.

AoE rings blend in really well with the floor.
I mean they blend in really, really, REALLY well with the floor. As other topics have said, it’s incredibly difficult to see them. To be honest, this seems more like an inherent flaw with the ground targeting “artwork” that has been made much more apparent. Why aren’t there any colors that can make the red, thin AoE outlines stand out? Why not make the AoE rings into an actual AoE field with a repeating pattern that rises from the floor to show where an AoE attack is about to hit?

Pressure. Lots of it:

1. Time – you have two minutes
2. Grasping claws – constantly firing off
3. Insta-kill shadowfall
4. Insta-kill clones
5. Kill cosmic rifts before they pull you

That’s a lot of pressure elements and while you guys (dev team) might laugh or smirk at my assumptions (most players only see the tip of the iceberg here folks), I think that the so called “challenge” is the ability to manage all of the pressure that you are under.

If you ask me, that is frustrating. Just off the top of my head, the most memorable one-on-one fights I’ve ever experienced happened in Devil May Cry 3. The fights against Virgil were truly challenging and I honestly was hoping for the Queen’s Gauntlet fights to be similar to those fights.

If I had to be specific about what I’m talking about for those fights, I’m talking about the “tell” of his attacks, his counter attacks, the amount of times you can actually hit him before he performs a counter, how he can CC you, the frequency of his attacks, and his various counters.

One hit knock outs aren’t challenging, they’re frustrating and feel cheap.
The point of being challenging is to push players to the brink of their skill. If you have fights that combine past mechanics, that’s fine. But when you have a fight that combines past mechanics and introduces more than one new mechanic, then things are no longer going to feel challenging (at least for me).

Frustrating gauntlet mechanics seem to bring the worse out in people.
I’ve been in situations where people don’t even bother to rez you since that would somehow take away their precious time in the arenas. It doesn’t help that you die outside instead of appearing back alive.

It seems to me that this was intended to be a gold/consumable sink what with the high amount of deaths that a player is likely to face. I don’t know about other players, but I burned through all my achievement chest rez orbs (selfish people), more than 2/3rds of my repair canisters, and a medley of consumables.

Various other issues

1. Targeting is crap.
2. Camera zoom inside close quarters (near walls/solid objects).

Some very good points.

I found that until I had the shadowfall pattern memorized, every time I even made it to phase two was just a lucky coincidence. Then, once I knew exactly where I was going to start phase two at every time, and where the first shadowfall was going to drop, and where all the clones would be, and where I needed to look to destroy an orb at any of the three spawns, I felt like I could start to make a serious attempt at killing her. Once I could get to phase two reliably and survive for ~20 seconds in phase two and get into a rhythm, it took a few tries, but was doable.

To be fair, the camera is annoying, but if the camera is messing you up, you haven’t practiced and memorized enough.

If you have multiple classes at 80, try it with different classes. I tried many many times on my ranger, and gave up and switched to guard. Got it on my sixth try with a guardian (just using staff auto/occasional 3 and a shout build).

Also, some arenas are definitely easier than others. I was watching some people last night at different arenas, some were downright horrible. It took twice as long (minimum) as it should to get to phase two, just based on where the pools, clones, and shadowfalls spawned. If you’re in an arena where there is any downtime waiting for the shadowfall to move so you can lure clones, switch arenas.

Barabbas.8715:

I’m okay with punishing hardcore content, but mixing it in with casual content is stupid. Creaitng a gauntlet in which 90% of people will probably never complete is poor game design. They could easily have removed the orbs from Liadri to make the fight fair, then had a “hard mode” battle with the orbs for the few people who like dieing repeatedly.

It’s obviously not casual content. You don’t need to do it either. The main reason to do it is for a pretty cool mini. It’s a pretty decent reward for a hard fight. You don’t even need it for the big meta achievement for Queen’s Jubilee.

I do wish they had a normal mode and hard mode but it doesn’t really make much of a difference. It’s the same name for a different boss if that’s the case. Might as well just consider a different gauntlet challenge the “Story Mode” and her the hard mode. It doesn’t need to be done but if you want the mini you have to do it. That seems extremely fair to me.

Liadri reminds me a lot of the Mad King’s clock-tower from the Halloween patch: It’s really hard and frustrating because you fail constantly, but the instant you do it, it suddenly becomes one of the easiest things in the world and you can auto-pilot it every time.

When I first did it, I had no idea what any of the mechanics were or the patterns, and most of my runs were simply dedicated to figuring out what the fight was all about. After about 10 runs or so, I figured out that phase 1 had the exact same patterns for the shadow-fall each game, the exact same patterns for the clone spawns, and that the orb spawned in even increments in 1 of 4 places that was easy to see. I also realized the light swirls also had a set pattern and appeared in the same places every time.

Then, after I was able to do phase 1 every time, without fail, phase 2 became easier when I realized there were only 2 shadow-fall patterns that alternated each time, and all you had to do was kite her in a circle with range.

I can’t say I’ve had as much fun with this game as I did with this one fight. Very rarely do I have to stop and think about how to approach a specific fight in this game. Liadri reminded me a lot of my gw1 days, and the nostalgia made the experience for me. Yes, the fight is very unforgiving, but at the same time, if any of the mechanics were toned down a bit, the fight would be a cinch with no challenge at all. How many times can you say you had to stop and actually think about how to beat a certain part of the game? How many times have you had to change your build for that content? In my experience, I have a single build that I can use for pretty much everything PvE and excel at it. This was a fantastic change of pace.

I do agree that the floor was poorly chosen for the arenas. If there was a solid floor instead of a grid, then all the AoEs would be fairly easy to spot and easier to predict and avoid. A lot of players would probably have beaten her faster if they could see what was happening more clearly.

grey.8504:

Barabbas.8715:

I’m okay with punishing hardcore content, but mixing it in with casual content is stupid. Creaitng a gauntlet in which 90% of people will probably never complete is poor game design. They could easily have removed the orbs from Liadri to make the fight fair, then had a “hard mode” battle with the orbs for the few people who like dieing repeatedly.

It’s obviously not casual content. You don’t need to do it either. The main reason to do it is for a pretty cool mini. It’s a pretty decent reward for a hard fight. You don’t even need it for the big meta achievement for Queen’s Jubilee.

I do wish they had a normal mode and hard mode but it doesn’t really make much of a difference. It’s the same name for a different boss if that’s the case. Might as well just consider a different gauntlet challenge the “Story Mode” and her the hard mode. It doesn’t need to be done but if you want the mini you have to do it. That seems extremely fair to me.

I am going to agree that the decision to split the Gauntlet and the regular content was a great idea and having achievements for each that rewarded players with an item was more than fair.

The Gauntlet doesn’t fit my play-style or my disabilities, much like games like “I Want To Be the Guy” are waaay too punishing and tedious for me for even attempt and get an ounce of enjoyment from. But hey, I see a lot of gamers who enjoy that challenge and are even suggesting ways to make it less “punishing” and better designed. Awesome. I’d love to see events have tiers like this to challenge different types of gamers.