Guild Wars 2

I agree. I’m a hardcore PvE’er but was unable to beat her, so seeing folks with the mini is actually semi impressive.

If it weren’t for the fact that so much of Liadri is fake difficulty via bad design, the whole encounter wouldn’t be so bad.

Oh man, fake difficulty and bad design! If we listened to forum posters no boss would have any mechanic ever.

Wolfheart.1938:

Oh man, fake difficulty and bad design! If we listened to forum posters no boss would have any mechanic ever.

I don’t know about bad design, but there’s a fair amount of difficulty that should probably not be present due to functionality and technical issues.

Well done, Tolmos

You know a genre has problems when gamers praise a game with horrible and cheap mechanics are great and hard.

Read up SNK boss syndrome for more information and see where Liadri stands.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

If it weren’t for the fact that so much of Liadri is fake difficulty via bad design, the whole encounter wouldn’t be so bad.

The only mechanic I can see that fits that, for Liadri at least, is the arena itself. Having my screen do the mambo when I get too close to the edge isn’t fun, and being colorblind I actually can’t see the AOE on the honeycomb floor at all (I had to dodge by seeing the black stuff forming overhead, and learning the AOE rotation). Those are two things I hope that Arenanet looks into and perhaps improves upon in the future. A dome shape simply isn’t ideal in such close quarters.

But by way of the fight itself? I have no complaints on the mechanics.

Tolmos.8395:

Since I started MMOing in 1997, I have found very VERY few PvE encounters that I considered to require any level of “skill”. I was a hardcore raider in college (the free time allowed it), raiding for 4 of my 5 years in WoW and almost all of my 1.5 in Rift (didn’t really raid in the rest of the games I played, since I mostly played them for PvP). 90% of that raiding was as the main tank or one of the main healers in the raid. In all of that time, I can count the number of fights that I felt required true “skill” one 1 hand.

Liadri is in that category.

Because of the Liadri fight, I had to realize the flaws in my playstyle and my reaction speed, as well as create a new build specifically for the fight. Even with all of that, it was still probably one of the most difficult (by way of player skill) encounters I’ve seen in an MMO to date, if not THE most difficult.

It wasn’t about arbitrarily bigger numbers on my armor, or whether the tank knew the rotation of the AOEs or anything like that. It is about timed dodges while keeping up with your environment. It was about MY ability to play, not my ability to rely on someone else to keep me afloat. Any single mistake meant the end of the match And I loved every second of it.

So thank you. The mini I received from that encounter is probably the first virtual item, far above and beyond any “tier #” gear I RNGed into in a raid, that I actually feel accomplished having and showing off.

Definitely hope to see more like this fight in the future.

You value individual skill over group skill. I wonder why you play MMOs to be honest. Most GW2 boss encounters can’t hold a candle to WoW’s finer boss fights (assuming one refers to 25mans/heroic). I find most of Arena Net’s boss design to be mediocre at best and rely mainly on two factors. Tons of health and dodge. Only recently have they gotten better and I look forward to trying out Liadri. But it’s a solo fight and I will always find those fun, but nothing truly as memorable as many raid-esque fights I have done in other games.

Valenthor.4052:

Most GW2 boss encounters can’t hold a candle to WoW’s finer boss fights

Hahaha. As an ex-WoW hardcore raider, those “finer fights” boil down to gear checks with trinity training wheels. Tank takes aggro, healers play whackamole, Dps autopilot rotations and every now and then you stack or spread out and get out of the fire. Addons tell you what to do when and the fights are tuned so they cannot be completed with current gear thus giving the illusion of ‘progressing’.

Jeez, can’t you guys just say. “I don’t agree with how liadri was designed but i’m glad you enjoyed the boss fight, and you were finally able to beat it.” Or something around those lines. People need to learn to be civil. Its just a Video game my goodness.

Karizee.8076:

Valenthor.4052:

Most GW2 boss encounters can’t hold a candle to WoW’s finer boss fights

Hahaha. As an ex-WoW hardcore raider, those “finer fights” boil down to gear checks with trinity training wheels. Tank takes aggro, healers play whackamole, Dps autopilot rotations and every now and then you stack or spread out and get out of the fire. Addons tell you what to do when and the fights are tuned so they cannot be completed with current gear thus giving the illusion of ‘progressing’.

I agree with this. After 4 years of hardcore WoW raiding, starting in 40 mans and ending in 20-25 mans, it pretty much comes down to trinity basics + simon says. The only job that could maybe be remotely difficult is the healer. I main tanked and was one of the main healers (there is no single “main healer” in a 40 or 20 man raid) for the majority of those 4 years. We were always on the cutting edge, and competing with world firsts on each of those raids. I never once felt like it required actual skill on my part, or really the part of anyone else in the group. It just required a basic game of simon says and for me not to mess up my rotation. Every once in a while a boss would have a strange mechanic that required me to not hit them at a specific time, to stand in a specific spot… simon says, basically.

So it’s not a matter of preferring individual skill over group skill… it’s a matter of preferring to be challenged myself, as opposed to standing around being bored and pretending like I’m supposed to be challenged, when in fact I am not.

Tolmos.8395:

Karizee.8076:

Valenthor.4052:

Most GW2 boss encounters can’t hold a candle to WoW’s finer boss fights

Hahaha. As an ex-WoW hardcore raider, those “finer fights” boil down to gear checks with trinity training wheels. Tank takes aggro, healers play whackamole, Dps autopilot rotations and every now and then you stack or spread out and get out of the fire. Addons tell you what to do when and the fights are tuned so they cannot be completed with current gear thus giving the illusion of ‘progressing’.

After 4 years of hardcore WoW raiding, starting in 40 mans and ending in 20-25 mans, it pretty much comes down to trinity basics + simon says. The only job that could maybe be remotely difficult is the healer. I main tanked and was one of the main healers (there is no single “main healer” in a 40 or 20 man raid) for the majority of those 4 years. We were always on the cutting edge, and competing with world firsts on each of those raids. I never once felt like it required actual skill on my part, or really the part of anyone else in the group. It just required a basic game of simon says and for me not to mess up my rotation. Every once in a while a boss would have a strange mechanic that required me to not hit them at a specific time, to stand in a specific spot… simon says, basically.

I have to +1 this. I didn’t realize it until GW2 was almost out and all of a sudden most of WoW just seemed so bland and trivial.

Wolfheart.1938:

Oh man, fake difficulty and bad design! If we listened to forum posters no boss would have any mechanic ever.

The only things that could be considered fake difficulty are
1) bad camera angles causing zoom in- only a problem to very large characters and even then, it’s only if they stay on the sides of the arena
2)AoE visibility- I personally had no problem with this, but apparently some people have difficulty seeing the aoe circles of her falling darkness. This could be a legitimate concern for the colorblind.

Otherwise, it’s all patterns and/or reaction.

silvermember.8941:

You know a genre has problems when gamers praise a game with horrible and cheap mechanics are great and hard.

Read up SNK boss syndrome for more information and see where Liadri stands.

Yeah. Many of hose fights are known for being unforgiving with human error and easily doable with glitches.

The kind of stuff that either a bot does better than a human, or becomes trivial when a certain tactic or exploit is used.

That’s a design flaw in which many action games fall. They forget about “being smarter than the AI”, and become “doing the things in the right order at the right time, like a machine”, which is ultimately bad design.

Excepting Rugal, of course.
No one badmouths Rugal.
Best SNK boss ever. All of his versions.
No discussion here.
Period.

Oh, that would be great. They should make a a challenge GW1 style against a boss that is inspired by Rugal. The guy can’t be killed, so the challenge is about how much you you can endure while doing something else, until this “Rugal” ultimately defeats you, turns you into a stone, and puts you in his collection.
Lasting enough would give you a Mini-Me Statue Miniature. A miniature that looks like you with the petrified effect (e.g.: Obsidian Flesh).

…

What was talking about?

Ah, yeah.

Skill in games should not be centered about machine-like precision, but give leeways though strategy and tactics. Strategy other than copying some cookie cutter build someone else came up with, I mean.

Yeah, because running in circles require so many skills -_-

Liadri isn’t hard, it’s just discriminating. If you have a physical/mental problems (like colorblind people or not so-sharp reflex like me) or get easily dizzy for running in circles with the kittenty camera ever conceived by game developers (again, like me) then, she is hard. Other ways, she is just another spam #1 mob.

Strategy? New builds? Are you kittening serious?

I killed her with full soldier gear (rare quality with soldier crest in every single piece) and Lich auto-attack. No food, no buffs, no special build. You don’t even have to dodge a single time. Once you know how the AoE works and where the clones/rifts spawn, it’s done (jeez, even Horace or the Krait Witch in starting zones are way harder to solo).

So no, game devs can’t make hardcore content, they just have the choise to discriminate people (which in theory is illegal but well, who cares).

Tolmos.8395:

Since I started MMOing in 1997, I have found very VERY few PvE encounters that I considered to require any level of “skill”.

There’s your problem. You’re playing the wrong type of games. Not every game has to be about “How elite are YOU?” to be good or fun.

Maybe you should devote your time to Shooters. Or fighting games. or Mobas. Or RTS. Perhaps you do, but then… if you really want to be challenged and prove how skillful you are… why do you play this instead of those? Lack of skill perhaps?

arjeidi.2690:

Tolmos.8395:

Since I started MMOing in 1997, I have found very VERY few PvE encounters that I considered to require any level of “skill”.

There’s your problem. You’re playing the wrong type of games. Not every game has to be about “How elite are YOU?” to be good or fun.

Maybe you should devote your time to Shooters. Or fighting games. or Mobas. Or RTS. Perhaps you do, but then… if you really want to be challenged and prove how skillful you are… why do you play this instead of those? Lack of skill perhaps?

Cheap shot, and totally unnecessary.

I find that much of MMO design is not to my tastes. However, what an MMO usually provides is a large world, a lot of content, and new content on a more or less regular basis. SP games don’t (or don’t often) offer any of that. So, I also play MMO’s to scratch certain itches.

arjeidi.2690:

Tolmos.8395:

Since I started MMOing in 1997, I have found very VERY few PvE encounters that I considered to require any level of “skill”.

There’s your problem. You’re playing the wrong type of games. Not every game has to be about “How elite are YOU?” to be good or fun.

Maybe you should devote your time to Shooters. Or fighting games. or Mobas. Or RTS. Perhaps you do, but then… if you really want to be challenged and prove how skillful you are… why do you play this instead of those? Lack of skill perhaps?

With the exception of mobas, I play all of those regularly. But minus a few exceptions like Planetside 2, none offer a persistent world in which I can regularly play with friends. I play MMOs accepting that I won’t be challenged, but that’s not why I play them.

It has nothing to do with proving how skillful I am. I could give 2 craps if anyone outside of those I’m beating know how good I am. What I care about is personal enjoyment and betterment through high skill challenges. If I can get that in an MMO, then outstanding.

IndigoSundown.5419:

arjeidi.2690:

Tolmos.8395:

Since I started MMOing in 1997, I have found very VERY few PvE encounters that I considered to require any level of “skill”.

There’s your problem. You’re playing the wrong type of games. Not every game has to be about “How elite are YOU?” to be good or fun.

Maybe you should devote your time to Shooters. Or fighting games. or Mobas. Or RTS. Perhaps you do, but then… if you really want to be challenged and prove how skillful you are… why do you play this instead of those? Lack of skill perhaps?

Cheap shot, and totally unnecessary.

I find that much of MMO design is not to my tastes. However, what an MMO usually provides is a large world, a lot of content, and new content on a more or less regular basis. SP games don’t (or don’t often) offer any of that. So, I also play MMO’s to scratch certain itches.

Absolutely agree with this.

daimasei.4091:

Yeah, because running in circles require so many skills -_-

Liadri isn’t hard, it’s just discriminating. If you have a physical/mental problems (like colorblind people or not so-sharp reflex like me) or get easily dizzy for running in circles with the kittenty camera ever conceived by game developers (again, like me) then, she is hard. Other ways, she is just another spam #1 mob.

Strategy? New builds? Are you kittening serious?

I killed her with full soldier gear (rare quality with soldier crest in every single piece) and Lich auto-attack. No food, no buffs, no special build. You don’t even have to dodge a single time. Once you know how the AoE works and where the clones/rifts spawn, it’s done (jeez, even Horace or the Krait Witch in starting zones are way harder to solo).

So no, game devs can’t make hardcore content, they just have the choise to discriminate people (which in theory is illegal but well, who cares).

How did you even dps her down in full soldier only doing auto attack before the timer ran out?

well said Tolmos and congratulations on your win. Guess you knew a million entitlement voices would cry out at this – kudos!

I beat her and completed light up the darkness, but I didn’t really enjoy the experience for a number of reasons that could of been avoided. Such as the overpopulation lag, the floor, the waiting for turn, time limit and camera. ;/ Couldn’t help torturing myself for it though. I’m a completionist and wanted revenge for all the damage she did to my Sylvari’s colon.

Karizee.8076:

Valenthor.4052:

Most GW2 boss encounters can’t hold a candle to WoW’s finer boss fights

Hahaha. As an ex-WoW hardcore raider, those “finer fights” boil down to gear checks with trinity training wheels. Tank takes aggro, healers play whackamole, Dps autopilot rotations and every now and then you stack or spread out and get out of the fire. Addons tell you what to do when and the fights are tuned so they cannot be completed with current gear thus giving the illusion of ‘progressing’.

Top tier raiders clear new fights with inferior gear all the time. WoW is very forgiving in the gear check department. Unless of course, your guild is struggling then that’s where the gear comes in. It is used more as a “okay you have spent too much time on this boss, here’s some gear, move on”. I question how far you actually raided into the game, if that is what you think WoW raiding is. Every fight was patchwork, according to you.

Tolmos.8395:

Karizee.8076:

Valenthor.4052:

Most GW2 boss encounters can’t hold a candle to WoW’s finer boss fights

Hahaha. As an ex-WoW hardcore raider, those “finer fights” boil down to gear checks with trinity training wheels. Tank takes aggro, healers play whackamole, Dps autopilot rotations and every now and then you stack or spread out and get out of the fire. Addons tell you what to do when and the fights are tuned so they cannot be completed with current gear thus giving the illusion of ‘progressing’.

I agree with this. After 4 years of hardcore WoW raiding, starting in 40 mans and ending in 20-25 mans, it pretty much comes down to trinity basics + simon says. The only job that could maybe be remotely difficult is the healer. I main tanked and was one of the main healers (there is no single “main healer” in a 40 or 20 man raid) for the majority of those 4 years. We were always on the cutting edge, and competing with world firsts on each of those raids. I never once felt like it required actual skill on my part, or really the part of anyone else in the group. It just required a basic game of simon says and for me not to mess up my rotation. Every once in a while a boss would have a strange mechanic that required me to not hit them at a specific time, to stand in a specific spot… simon says, basically.

So it’s not a matter of preferring individual skill over group skill… it’s a matter of preferring to be challenged myself, as opposed to standing around being bored and pretending like I’m supposed to be challenged, when in fact I am not.

You basically proved my point. MMOs will never be a good taste of individual skill by nature. They are designed to be played in a group. You aren’t supposed to feel “I am so good!”, you are supposed to feel “We did it!”. A bunch of simple jobs all executed to perfection by each member of the group to accomplish something. The challenge comes in organizing all the group to function that way. I take it you have never tried to raid lead? Or build a guild from the ground up? That is where MMOs succeed, not on individual skill. And I wish more MMOs realized that.

Valenthor.4052:

Tolmos.8395:

Karizee.8076:

Valenthor.4052:

Most GW2 boss encounters can’t hold a candle to WoW’s finer boss fights

Hahaha. As an ex-WoW hardcore raider, those “finer fights” boil down to gear checks with trinity training wheels. Tank takes aggro, healers play whackamole, Dps autopilot rotations and every now and then you stack or spread out and get out of the fire. Addons tell you what to do when and the fights are tuned so they cannot be completed with current gear thus giving the illusion of ‘progressing’.

I agree with this. After 4 years of hardcore WoW raiding, starting in 40 mans and ending in 20-25 mans, it pretty much comes down to trinity basics + simon says. The only job that could maybe be remotely difficult is the healer. I main tanked and was one of the main healers (there is no single “main healer” in a 40 or 20 man raid) for the majority of those 4 years. We were always on the cutting edge, and competing with world firsts on each of those raids. I never once felt like it required actual skill on my part, or really the part of anyone else in the group. It just required a basic game of simon says and for me not to mess up my rotation. Every once in a while a boss would have a strange mechanic that required me to not hit them at a specific time, to stand in a specific spot… simon says, basically.

So it’s not a matter of preferring individual skill over group skill… it’s a matter of preferring to be challenged myself, as opposed to standing around being bored and pretending like I’m supposed to be challenged, when in fact I am not.

You basically proved my point. MMOs will never be a good taste of individual skill by nature. They are designed to be played in a group. You aren’t supposed to feel “I am so good!”, you are supposed to feel “We did it!”. A bunch of simple jobs all executed to perfection by each member of the group to accomplish something. The challenge comes in organizing all the group to function that way. I take it you have never tried to raid lead? Or build a guild from the ground up? That is where MMOs succeed, not on individual skill. And I wish more MMOs realized that.

GW2 does this how?

Dungeons> face roll (Except Arah some parts)

General PvE> zerg fest

WvW > Yes, it does require origination to an extent. But in most scenarios it’s numbers vs numbers.

Dunno really where GW2 succeeds in any of those points you said.

Liadri is fine, except the camera inside the dome, is really irritating.

Tolmos.8395:

How did you even dps her down in full soldier only doing auto attack before the timer ran out?

Shocking right? Wanna know something even more shocking?

I got downed just before throwing the 3rd orb and I rally myself only because I was over one rift and the clones kill themselves so, I don’t only kill her with soldier gear and lich auto-attack, I did it with only about 30% of my health which of course, proof how hard she really is.

And no, I don’t kill her in my first try, I didn’t take note but it took me over 50 tries if I’m correct.
But as I said, I got really dizzy. Outside the cage, she wouldn’t lasted for more than 30sec, though.

Pandeh.5248:

Valenthor.4052:

Tolmos.8395:

Karizee.8076:

Valenthor.4052:

Most GW2 boss encounters can’t hold a candle to WoW’s finer boss fights

Hahaha. As an ex-WoW hardcore raider, those “finer fights” boil down to gear checks with trinity training wheels. Tank takes aggro, healers play whackamole, Dps autopilot rotations and every now and then you stack or spread out and get out of the fire. Addons tell you what to do when and the fights are tuned so they cannot be completed with current gear thus giving the illusion of ‘progressing’.

I agree with this. After 4 years of hardcore WoW raiding, starting in 40 mans and ending in 20-25 mans, it pretty much comes down to trinity basics + simon says. The only job that could maybe be remotely difficult is the healer. I main tanked and was one of the main healers (there is no single “main healer” in a 40 or 20 man raid) for the majority of those 4 years. We were always on the cutting edge, and competing with world firsts on each of those raids. I never once felt like it required actual skill on my part, or really the part of anyone else in the group. It just required a basic game of simon says and for me not to mess up my rotation. Every once in a while a boss would have a strange mechanic that required me to not hit them at a specific time, to stand in a specific spot… simon says, basically.

So it’s not a matter of preferring individual skill over group skill… it’s a matter of preferring to be challenged myself, as opposed to standing around being bored and pretending like I’m supposed to be challenged, when in fact I am not.

You basically proved my point. MMOs will never be a good taste of individual skill by nature. They are designed to be played in a group. You aren’t supposed to feel “I am so good!”, you are supposed to feel “We did it!”. A bunch of simple jobs all executed to perfection by each member of the group to accomplish something. The challenge comes in organizing all the group to function that way. I take it you have never tried to raid lead? Or build a guild from the ground up? That is where MMOs succeed, not on individual skill. And I wish more MMOs realized that.

GW2 does this how?

Dungeons> face roll (Except Arah some parts)

General PvE> zerg fest

WvW > Yes, it does require origination to an extent. But in most scenarios it’s numbers vs numbers.

Dunno really where GW2 succeeds in any of those points you said.

It doesn’t. I wasn’t arguing that it does. In fact, I would argue it is significantly worse in that department compared to most MMOs. Especially on the PvE side.

daimasei.4091:

Outside the cage, she wouldn’t lasted for more than 30sec, though.

Well yeah, there’s a zerg out there :p

Wolfheart.1938:

Oh man, fake difficulty and bad design! If we listened to forum posters no boss would have any mechanic ever.

I went into much more detail in other places:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

My biggest gripe is the fake difficulty of it all.

#1: The camera. It is extremely limited, making it so you can’t see what is going on. Half the fight is zoomed on the back of my character’s head.
#2: The random object pull. This would be fine if we could see the whole field, and that stupid pulling orb wouldn’t get “obstructed” every time you attacked it. But, game glitches and camera angles, ho! It isn’t like the random pull is pure RNG here.
#3: One hit kill mechanics are never fun. They just discriminate against builds.
#4: The grates on the ground make it so you can’t see the AoE circles that well. In the second phase of the fight, I basically have to guess whenever I’m in an AoE or not.
#5: OH THE LAG! This comes from two sources.
a)Zone lag. Due to the large amount of people zerging this area at 3:00 AM, every action you take can have anywhere from a 0.5 to 1 second delay on it. Because of this, you’ll end up squatting stationary in on area trying to pick up an orb of light, resulting in death.
b)There are huge lag spikes that delay the game 5-10 seconds, and you get these every few minutes. If you get one in the fight, fight is over.
#6: Time limit. Due to the extremely limited space of the gauntlet, to make it so no on can abuse the “whole server shares 6 domes” system they made, they put a time limit in the fight, so you have to rush ahead to beat the bosses when the smart thing to do otherwise would’ve been to wait for a better opportunity. Again, this just discriminates against builds.
#7: It is punishing and expensive. The truffle soups are 30 silver each, and you have to pay to get more tickets, and then you have to pay the repair bill. On average, each “fight” costs about 10 silver. Worst part is when people don’t rez you, and you have to run throughout the entire map to get another shot, getting more people to queue up before you and wasting more time off of food bonuses.

If they just took this fight, and changed it so it was in an individual instance with an open camera view,not in an area suffering from zerg lag, with an opaque ground, without a time limit, and just made her attacks do immense damage instead of instant death, then Liadri would be hard for all of the right reasons.

lol wow.
‘liadri was so easy (even though it took me over 50 times to kill her, but i didn’t need to change my build or gear)’
‘liadri would be so easy if it wasn’t for (insert thing that makes her hard)’

Why cant people just agree that it was hard, everything that made it harder was just part of it being hard.

I loved this fight and gave up MANY times before i finally beat her. Im a mainly PvE player so i dont get the chance to test out my skills all that often. 1V1 Vs a boss in a controlled environment was awesome! And i still thought the same even when i thought i would never beat her.

Anyway, i know what you are saying OP and i agree totally! and congratz to you

(we need ’I beat liadri t-shirts!!)

Twiggy.2138:

Why cant people just agree that it was hard, everything that made it harder was just part of it being hard.

It took me more time to find an open arena than it did to beat her. =/

It was actualy first real challenge in this game since launch.

I don’t know about you but I found soloing Lupicus quite challenging.

Wethospu.6437:

I don’t know about you but I found soloing Lupicus quite challenging.

I soloed lupi on about 10 try. Liadri on 8 orbs took me about 50:-)

And those 10 attempts also included making your tactic from scratch and without any previous experience?
Or did you just copy someone else’s tactic while having done it 100+ times with a group?

Sil.4560:

Twiggy.2138:

Why cant people just agree that it was hard, everything that made it harder was just part of it being hard.

It took me more time to find an open arena than it did to beat her. =/

did you try guesting to a quiet server? on anvil rock there are nearly always empty arenas (at least when i have gone to look)

Wethospu.6437:

And those 10 attempts also included making your tactic from scratch and without any previous experience?
Or did you just copy someone else’s tactic while having done it 100+ times with a group?

Well I did about 20 regular runs since launch with group before so I basicly know what Lupi doing. I cant copy tactic because I never saw engineer do it before:-)

And never watched a video about it?

Wethospu.6437:

And never watched a video about it?

I watched some warrior do it loooong time ago:-)

So what was your initial tactic (before any attempts) and final tactic? If you already knew every mechanic and had counter for everything then you were using a premade tactic (either by you or someone else, not exactly same as going without any info).

What about Liadri? How often you changed your tactic?

I know basicly what he doind but knowing exact pattern and timing nope:-)
Well at first time I tried simillar tactic to pug runs so keep range but it dont work well:-) End up with condi build with tons of evade (sigil, runes, trait) and block where first phase was on range and rest on semi-melee trying stay behind him.

What did you use for Stability? How did you deal with grubs?
Anyways, do you have any kind of proof (video, picture)?

On topic: I prefer fights with some depth. Fights which are so hard that you are literally forced to make mistakes and then have to recover from them. Instead of executing a pattern flawlessly which is what we currently have.

I take my hat off to the OP, who beat Liadri being colorblind and not seeing the red stuff on the floor. I am impressed. I mean that.
I beat Liadri in the very last second, downed, throwing dirt at her (ranger, downed skill 1).

Wethospu.6437:

What did you use for Stability? How did you deal with grubs?
Anyways, do you have any kind of proof (video, picture)?

On topic: I prefer fights with some depth. Fights which are so hard that you are literally forced to make mistakes and then have to recover from them. Instead of executing a pattern flawlessly which is what we currently have.

I did it for myself not for showing off so I havent video but I can do it again and film it if you want it so much:-)

silvermember.8941:

You know a genre has problems when gamers praise a game with horrible and cheap mechanics are great and hard.

Read up SNK boss syndrome for more information and see where Liadri stands.

I freaking love SNK bosses though. Do you have any clue how satisfying it is to not only unlock the Geese boss fight in Art of Fighting 2 but actually beat him?

Liadri isn’t nearly as bad as most SNK bosses. If anything, I’d say Meatless Murder is closer to being an SNK boss due to ACTUAL RNG complaints like Strugar throwing meat directly under Chomper.

Valenthor.4052:

Most GW2 boss encounters can’t hold a candle to WoW’s finer boss fights (assuming one refers to 25mans/heroic).

Comparing GW2 to WoW makes me chuckle. GW2 is barely 1 year old. You must have not played WoW in its infancy, because the encounters they created then were incredibly buggy, simplistic and boring. You mentioned “heroic”, which was not even something that was designed until about 4 years after WoW’s release; until then there was only one mode of raiding.

Anyways, after several years, the raid designers of WoW began to learn their craft in addition to them gaining new tech to make the encounters more interesting. Why was Molten Core more simplistic than Ahn’Qiraj? Not only were the designers new to making raids, but programmers were developing new tools for them as well to make things more fun! GW2 is a relatively young game, so their tools at the designers disposal are going to be limited at first.

Speaking from experience as someone who did bleeding edge progression for Hard Modes and later Heroic encounters, many of the fights did not require overwhelming amounts of personal responsibility. Most of the difficulty came from a raid of 25 players working together as cogs in a machine, each only worrying about 1 or 2 additional levels of personal responsibility at any given moment. (There were some exceptions of course, like Hard Mode Mimiron)

It’s basically a “multi-thread” battle with major annoyance from below but hardly that much challenging. It also takes less than 3 minutes, even less than 1 minute in some cases, meaning much less time to make a fatal mistake. I found other encounters in this game more challenging.

Me and the future Missus. :P