Guild Wars 2

I get it that people operate on the classic rule of “everything I can do is too easy and everything I cant do is too hard”. Same as “all who did something I cant are no-lifers and all who cant do what I did are noobs”. I get that, I am sometimes also guilty of that.

Will I complain that Liadri is too hard and must be nerfed? No. At least not yet. I’ll give it few more weeks to see. As the matter of fact I already managed to beat her on my thief and now I am trying to get the 8-orb challenge on my guardian (which for now seems to be impossible for my skill level, but who knows, maybe I will come up with something later).

I just wanted to address people who say that she is quite easy (yes, you can find such posts, look around the forums). Saying like they defeated her within 10 tries and how lots of player must be “terrible” at this game and “entitled”.

Well. For what it is worth, I believe that Liadri is the hardest “skill” challenge in any MMO released in the past decade. I played a lot of them and some on highly competetive level. People say that some heroic raid content in WoW is hard (HC Ragnaros, Sunwell, HC Lich King etc. etc.). Truth is, none of those are even close to Liadri in terms of reflex and multitasking requirements from a solo player. Big bulk of HC raiding challenge comes from the need of coordinating 10 or 25 people. Now imagine closing 25 people in 25 domes, each with his own Liadri. And they all must kill her together or a single KO will reset it for everyone. Although I dont play WoW since over a year, I had my fair share of cutting edge content, and nothing, absolutely nothing from their hardcore content was even close to Liadri in terms of how much skill it demanded from me.

Single player games? I believe for example that infamous Dark Souls is easier from Liadri. Mainly becouse it punishes mistakes but it is easier to master over time while Liadri is still a mess even on the 200th try. No area or boss in Dark Souls challenged me so much as Liadri does atm.

The only game I played and I believe it to be harder from Liadri is I Wanna Be The Boshy by Solgryn. I played it a bit for amusement and eventually I gave up. But Boshy (or Touhou Project series) is a joke indie project. A game created solely for the purpose of being as hard and sadistic as possible. Its sole purpose is to kill you 5000 times and laugh at you while doing so.

Do people beat all games? Sure they do. Every single game these days is ripped apart and dissected by speedruns posted on Youtube. Some people are extremely talented. That is their benefit and rightfully so. But I would really ask to stop alluding that Liadri is easy. If someone beat her easily, it means he is very skilled or very lucky. Either way good for him. But please, tell me what other content in MMO games in the last 10 years (or mainstream single player games) was clearly harder than this (speaking about skill here, not required grind)? Please tell me becouse I will be glad to argue with that. Nothing so far in GW2 was even close as hard as her (Halloween JP was a joke in comparison). Nothing in GW1 ever was even close in terms of difficulty as well. Liadri is a huge step-up from that. She is one of the hardest things I have ever done in video games. And I am playing games hardcore since more than 20 years. Is it nice to have such a challenging niche content in a game? I guess it is. Is it nice to call people “bad” and “horrible” becouse they cant beat her? Not by a long shot.

Wow, this is fantastic. +1 well deserved!

It’s true; I’ve done high-end raids and I’ve played tough single player games, and nothing comes close to the difficulty demanded by Liadri. Am I turned off by that? Not at all. I just wish some of the Punishments associated with her and with Queen’s Gauntlet in general would be removed. But as it is, she is very, very tough – along with the OP, she is the toughest fight I’ve ever done.

This is just going to turn Ito a thread of people giving opinions and you saying their opinion is wrong and yours is right.

The logic you used for dark souls can be very easily applied to liadri.

A 1v1 wih a very skilled player is harder than liadri. You can use the same strategy over and over again and always beat liadri. A player is capable of adapting in accordance with the situation at hand, liadri is not.

I think being good at TF2 or CS:GO/1.6 on a competitive level is harder than liadri for the same reasons stated above. In addition both those games have higher skill ceilings than GW2…

Difficulty is subjective.

Beautiful post. Agreed completely.

Liadri is hard. It took me well over 100 tries to beat her and finish Light Up The Darkness. If you spent any significant time and/or effort to beat her, turning around and calling it easy would be belittling your own achievement.

And yes, I do think liadri was easy.

1) Don’t stand in red circles
2) Kill floating orb
3) Don’t stand next the shadowy thingies

Don’t tell this was hard, even WoW has harder and more complex mechanics than that….

If you make that in Dark Souls you can dodge only 2 times in a row, you would die 100 more often. Entire DS combat based on stamina: block for heavy, and dodge for light wearer.

For me in DS hardest encounter was first human from DLC. He is just big and making mess on combat field. But he was still easy beatable if you can dodge right.

And overall basically in DS you could counter every enemy move. here you can’t. Nuff said.

Anyway as i said in other topic: not everyone could be an astronaut.

I came from an mmo, a very boring, VERY grindy mmo, but somehow i was addicted to it for years.

It was one of the bosses that mmo made imo, it was a yellow demon that you had to kill 4 machines powering it, it drops lightning attacks constantly those lightning attacks 1 shot you and it is a patterned where they are dropped. When you break those machines he has a huge amount of other enemies attacking you, while firing beams of lightning, and still dropping the lightning at the same time. If he hits you with his non 1 shot wep attack he heals i think it was 10-25% health forget which.

I consider him insanely kittenly difference is you could have a team of 5 players to join you, but you can solo him which alot of people have done. I consider him one of the hardest bosses in any game way tougher than liadri,

Liadri reminds me alot of that boss i mentioned, alot of the same concept only no orb, and the enemies dont run after you.

Liadri i do not consider a challenge i consider it just pure and simple frustration no learning curve, being cramped inside a tiny bubble, with hard to see aoes, you die you have to walk all the way back, grind tickets to try again, and let us not forget the bugs, sure the game i came from before this i quit because of how grindy it was i joined this game to get rid of that and just play a game for fun.

Dark souls i consider way way WAY tougher than liadri, very fun game, great learning curve, definitly for hardcore players.

Dark souls easier than liadri? Get yourself demon souls then its like dark souls on steroids.

Archon.6481:

This is just going to turn Ito a thread of people giving opinions and you saying their opinion is wrong and yours is right.

The logic you used for dark souls can be very easily applied to liadri.

A 1v1 wih a very skilled player is harder than liadri. You can use the same strategy over and over again and always beat liadri. A player is capable of adapting in accordance with the situation at hand, liadri is not.

I think being good at TF2 or CS:GO/1.6 on a competitive level is harder than liadri for the same reasons stated above. In addition both those games have higher skill ceilings than GW2…

Difficulty is subjective.

We speak about PvE content. Surely beating a world champion in 1v1 PvP will be harder. But PvP and PvE are two entirely different beasts so comparing them is pointless.

Archon.6481:

And yes, I do think liadri was easy.

1) Don’t stand in red circles
2) Kill floating orb
3) Don’t stand next the shadowy thingies

Don’t tell this was hard, even WoW has harder and more complex mechanics than that….

Complexity does not define difficulty alone. One of your examples… red circles? OK. But what about visibility of said circles? What about their frequency of spawning and area coverage? What about the fact that they always 1-shot you? In WoW 1-shot mechanics are actually rare even on most demanding HC encounters. If they do happen, they usually have a build-up (so you must complete some task to avoid it happening) or a very significant telegraph. They are not spammed at you every few seconds during the entire fight. In WoW HC raids failure comes when your raid caves in to the pressure over the period of time. Not when they slip by half second with awereness check which happens every 2 seconds.

Awe.1096:

Archon.6481:

This is just going to turn Ito a thread of people giving opinions and you saying their opinion is wrong and yours is right.

The logic you used for dark souls can be very easily applied to liadri.

A 1v1 wih a very skilled player is harder than liadri. You can use the same strategy over and over again and always beat liadri. A player is capable of adapting in accordance with the situation at hand, liadri is not.

I think being good at TF2 or CS:GO/1.6 on a competitive level is harder than liadri for the same reasons stated above. In addition both those games have higher skill ceilings than GW2…

Difficulty is subjective.

We speak about PvE content. Surely beating a world champion in 1v1 PvP will be harder. But PvP and PvE are two entirely different beasts so comparing them is pointless.

I’m just going to say this again.
How to beat liadri:

1. Do not stand in red circles
2. Kill the floating orb
3. Don’t melee the visions
4. Shoot liadri

There are much more complex mechanics in WoW or Rift that take more effort than a few dodges here and there. This fight is not hard, it is a dungeon boss stuffed in a cramped space with an AoE on par with lupi’s, but wih the health of a veteran.

Awe.1096:

Archon.6481:

And yes, I do think liadri was easy.

1) Don’t stand in red circles
2) Kill floating orb
3) Don’t stand next the shadowy thingies

Don’t tell this was hard, even WoW has harder and more complex mechanics than that….

Complexity does not define difficulty alone. One of your examples… red circles? OK. But what about visibility of said circles? What about their frequency of spawning and area coverage? What about the fact that they always 1-shot you? In WoW 1-shot mechanics are actually rare even on most demanding HC encounters. If they do happen, they usually have a build-up (so you must complete some task to avoid it happening) or a very significant telegraph. They are not spammed at you every few seconds during the entire fight. In WoW HC raids failure comes when your raid caves in to the pressure over the period of time. Not when they slip by half second with awereness check which happens every 2 seconds.

Complexity doesn’t define difficulty? Lets play chess with only pawns.

Red circles shouldn’t be difficult to see. Relying on something like that to define “difficulty” is poor design. That’s like removing the animation from eviserate or kill shot and saying that’s how you make warriors harder to fight.

Their frequency and area coverage is similar to that of lupi, who, surprise surprise, is not hard either. It’s another dodge and reaction check, just like lupi.

Archon.6481:

Awe.1096:

Archon.6481:

And yes, I do think liadri was easy.

1) Don’t stand in red circles
2) Kill floating orb
3) Don’t stand next the shadowy thingies

Don’t tell this was hard, even WoW has harder and more complex mechanics than that….

Complexity does not define difficulty alone. One of your examples… red circles? OK. But what about visibility of said circles? What about their frequency of spawning and area coverage? What about the fact that they always 1-shot you? In WoW 1-shot mechanics are actually rare even on most demanding HC encounters. If they do happen, they usually have a build-up (so you must complete some task to avoid it happening) or a very significant telegraph. They are not spammed at you every few seconds during the entire fight. In WoW HC raids failure comes when your raid caves in to the pressure over the period of time. Not when they slip by half second with awereness check which happens every 2 seconds.

Complexity doesn’t define difficulty? Lets play chess with only pawns.

Red circles shouldn’t be difficult to see. Relying on something like that to define “difficulty” is poor design. That’s like removing the animation from eviserate or kill shot and saying that’s how you make warriors harder to fight.

Their frequency and area coverage is similar to that of lupi, who, surprise surprise, is not hard either. It’s another dodge and reaction check, just like lupi.

Difference is this is a 1v1 fight, it’s not a 5v1 fight…and I think everybody would be okay with this fight if it was 5v1, as then it would be possible to survive using teamwork. But since you’re on your own…it’s like soloing Lupi. A few can do it, but the vast majority can not.

Archon.6481:

Complexity doesn’t define difficulty? Lets play chess with only pawns.

Red circles shouldn’t be difficult to see. Relying on something like that to define “difficulty” is poor design. That’s like removing the animation from eviserate or kill shot and saying that’s how you make warriors harder to fight.

Their frequency and area coverage is similar to that of lupi, who, surprise surprise, is not hard either. It’s another dodge and reaction check, just like lupi.

I am affraid you dont understand me. I said complexity does not define difficulty alone.

And how would you define “skill” in a video game? Skill and thing to which I am reffering to in case of Liadri is more “physical”. It is defined by your reflex, eye-hand coordination, ability to multitask and see several things at once, good “micro” and things like that. By this definition, beating Liadri is much harder from playing chess. A 110 year old can play chess and still be a great player becouse he has experience and knowledge. Would he get enough “skill” to challenge Liadri in GW2? I highly doubt. If you say that complexity is “hard” than I would say that EVE Online is much harder from GW2 becouse it requires a great deal of experience to be good at. But truth is, EVE Online is played at extremely slow pace and thus it demands nothing close to dexterity skill required by Liadri. That is the “skill” I am talking about.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Archon.6481:

Awe.1096:

Archon.6481:

And yes, I do think liadri was easy.

1) Don’t stand in red circles
2) Kill floating orb
3) Don’t stand next the shadowy thingies

Don’t tell this was hard, even WoW has harder and more complex mechanics than that….

Complexity does not define difficulty alone. One of your examples… red circles? OK. But what about visibility of said circles? What about their frequency of spawning and area coverage? What about the fact that they always 1-shot you? In WoW 1-shot mechanics are actually rare even on most demanding HC encounters. If they do happen, they usually have a build-up (so you must complete some task to avoid it happening) or a very significant telegraph. They are not spammed at you every few seconds during the entire fight. In WoW HC raids failure comes when your raid caves in to the pressure over the period of time. Not when they slip by half second with awereness check which happens every 2 seconds.

Complexity doesn’t define difficulty? Lets play chess with only pawns.

Red circles shouldn’t be difficult to see. Relying on something like that to define “difficulty” is poor design. That’s like removing the animation from eviserate or kill shot and saying that’s how you make warriors harder to fight.

Their frequency and area coverage is similar to that of lupi, who, surprise surprise, is not hard either. It’s another dodge and reaction check, just like lupi.

Difference is this is a 1v1 fight, it’s not a 5v1 fight…and I think everybody would be okay with this fight if it was 5v1, as then it would be possible to survive using teamwork. But since you’re on your own…it’s like soloing Lupi. A few can do it, but the vast majority can not.

You see, lupi takes a very long time to solo, which is the real difficulty. The longer the fight, the more likely a mistake.

Liadri takes less than 2 minutes.

I don’t know about you, but I stand in a fight with lupi for 2 minutes. Can I solo him? Maybe. But I can definitely last as long as I do with liadri. It’s the same thing except with a bigger arena and different animations and models.

Archon.6481:

even WoW has harder and more complex mechanics than that….

Are you being serious? I….I don’t even know where to begin.

I don’t claim that she’s easy (for me she isn’t), but after having defeated her, I do think she is significantly easier than she was when I fought her the first time. It’s just all got to do with knowing what to do, and to be able to execute it well enough to not die before she dies.
Of course, it’s not the same for everyone. Some players may have slow computers that run at horrible FPS. They’ll have it much harder than those who can comfortably play at 30+FPS. Others may have bad connection that causes so much lag that their actions are delayed too much to do anything.

Awe.1096:

Archon.6481:

Complexity doesn’t define difficulty? Lets play chess with only pawns.

Red circles shouldn’t be difficult to see. Relying on something like that to define “difficulty” is poor design. That’s like removing the animation from eviserate or kill shot and saying that’s how you make warriors harder to fight.

Their frequency and area coverage is similar to that of lupi, who, surprise surprise, is not hard either. It’s another dodge and reaction check, just like lupi.

I am affraid you dont understand me. I said complexity does not define difficulty alone.

And how would you define “skill” in a video game? Skill and thing to which I am reffering to in case of Liadri is more “physical”. It is defined by your reflex, eye-hand coordination, ability to multitask and see several things at once, good “micro” and things like that. By this definition, beating Liadri is much harder from playing chess. A 110 year old can play chess and still be a great player becouse he has experience and knowledge. Would he get enough “skill” to challenge Liadri in GW2? I highly doubt. If you say that complexity is “hard” than I would say that EVE Online is much harder from GW2 becouse it requires a great deal of experience to be good at. But truth is, EVE Online is played at extremely slow pace and thus it demands nothing close to dexterity skill required by Liadri. That is the “skill” I am talking about.

For brevity’s sake lets call that skill you described as twitch.

I do think that twitch is skill, and is important, but to me, strategy and creativity is far more skillful.

Spy in TF2 is a good example. Trickstabs take skill but if you’re not creative or strategic in your use of them, they will never work. If you e never played TF2 before or don’t know what it is, here is a video of this in action.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7DGr85c3rsY

Twitch definitely enhances a spy’s capability, but it is not the defining characteristic of the class.

SallyStitches.4096:

Archon.6481:

even WoW has harder and more complex mechanics than that….

Are you being serious? I….I don’t even know where to begin.

I’m going to assume you started playing when Wrath was released, because I can assure you that the game was much harder during vanilla and the burning crusade.

Archon.6481:

For brevity’s sake lets call that skill you described as twitch.
[… snip …]

So be it. Lets call it twitch. So Liadri requires twitch on levels to which all that I stated in my original post still applies.

You put another example of TF2. Which is a PvP experience and really should not apply as a valid comparison. Especially playing with a spy which relies on deception and playing mind games with your human oponents. Lets just put this argument to an end. Dont compare PvE difficulty and PvP. PvP is always subjective and even best players will loose. PvE is something you can master. Or at least to a level which varies for people. Liadri will never be mastered by majority of GW2 players in the current state of the game. Practice can make you better but every person has a certain skill (or twitch as you call it) ceiling.

Also as to WoW. Overall WoW was “harder” during Vanilla and TBC but specific heroic raid encounters were not. Heroic Lich King in Wrath was just as hard as Naxxramas in Vanilla. Yet none of those required “twitch” on level which I experienced on Liadri. She is not easy. She may be easy for you. But in this case almost nothing in the entire world of video games will be hard for you. Unless, again, we use a totally different definition of hard. I explained what I mean by “hard” and “skill” few posts above. You could argue that even extreme grind can be perceived by some people as hard. It all boils down to definition. Just please stop comparing Liadri to PvP mastery in any game becouse it does not serve any purpose for the sake of this argument.

Exosferatu.2961:

I beat Liadri on my 10th try. I ran full Berserker Warrior - Greatsword / Axe & Mace. 30/0/0/10/30: V, IX, XI / 0 / 0 / VI / VI, IX, XII: Healing Signet, Frenzy, For Great Justice, On My Mark, Signet of Rage – on Liadri and rotated counter-clockwise (doesn’t matter) on 2nd Phase.

I’m not a maso- or anything but I honesty like Gambles and bugged Conjured Greatswords at Kuraii the Cruel. I want more insane content. I hope World Event Bosses are more difficult than they are now as well.

Your opinion is now null and void. It’s nothing personal…but Warriors are known to trivialize the hardest possible content.

I wouldn’t call it easy but is not THAT hard.

First, there’s an artificial dificculty caused for an awful camera and a really uncomfortable FPS rate if you happen to had a bad PC (I was playing at about 12 FPS most of the time).

After that, it’s mostly getting accustomed to pattern and timing, and it’s going to improve as long as you keep trying.
On my first tries I was watching other players and counting for myself in order to get timing. Then, when fighting myself I repeated the count; sometimes worked, sometimes not.
After many tries, however, you get naturally accustomed to it; you don’t count anything, you just naturally evade at the right time and it’s not going to fail unless you are disturbed by a pull or a charge.
Same happens with the pattern. On my last tries before achieving 8 orbs I was doing phase 1 exactly the same way over and over.

So regular Liadri isn’t hard at all. Once you are familiar with patterns and timing is, in fact, rather “easy”, easier than Chomper and Strugar (who throws the meat wherever he wants) I would say. It just require a long learning process (it will vary depending on the player).

Light up the Darkness, however, is a completely different beast.
Phase 1 is still the same so you can complete it on an almost mechanical way, but Phase 2 gets A LOT harder.
On regular fight you pretty much need to run in circles following the safe spot and bursting her from time to time, but for Light up the Darkness you are going to be in the middle of everything, being attacked by Liadri (and conditioned) much more frequently, dancing with the clones (which are almost ignored on the regular fight) and entering danger zones on purpose, while you still need to damage her from tiem to time.

On comparision with Lupicus, I would say that Light up the Darkness is harder than Lupi phase 1 and 2. Lupicus on Phase 3 is still harder (and way longer), at least on an engineer (Before the rework of rocket boots. I think that the new ones could ease the fight A LOT; haven’t tried yet).

Awe.1096:

Archon.6481:

For brevity’s sake lets call that skill you described as twitch.
[… snip …]

So be it. Lets call it twitch. So Liadri requires twitch on levels to which all that I stated in my original post still applies.

You put another example of TF2. Which is a PvP experience and really should not apply as a valid comparison. Especially playing with a spy which relies on deception and playing mind games with your human oponents. Lets just put this argument to an end. Dont compare PvE difficulty and PvP. PvP is always subjective and even best players will loose. PvE is something you can master. Or at least to a level which varies for people. Liadri will never be mastered by majority of GW2 players in the current state of the game. Practice can make you better but every person has a certain skill (or twitch as you call it) ceiling.

Also as to WoW. Overall WoW was “harder” during Vanilla and TBC but specific heroic raid encounters were not. Heroic Lich King in Wrath was just as hard as Naxxramas in Vanilla. Yet none of those required “twitch” on level which I experienced on Liadri. She is not easy. She may be easy for you. But in this case almost nothing in the entire world of video games will be hard for you. Unless, again, we use a totally different definition of hard. I explained what I mean by “hard” and “skill” few posts above. You could argue that even extreme grind can be perceived by some people as hard. It all boils down to definition. Just please stop comparing Liadri to PvP mastery in any game becouse it does not serve any purpose for the sake of this argument.

You missed my point. TF2 spy was an example of what I think skill should be. Twitch should complimentary and enhance your other skills or get you out of situations because you lack those certain other skills. Spy is a good example because you don’t need twitch, but it helps you in certain situations. Mess up your stabs? Good revolver aim may get you out alive.

Unfortunately, twitch in this game is the only skill required in pve.

I fail to see why pvp is not valid to this argument. You seem to think that twitch is the ultimate testament to skill. So why not do what requires more twitch skill than anything else: pvp?

Archon.6481:

I fail to see why pvp is not valid to this argument. You seem to think that twitch is the ultimate testament to skill. So why not do what requires more twitch skill than anything else: pvp?

Becouse PvP cannot be scripted. The PvE content is a all or nothing case. You either beat a challenge or you do not. Developer will script that challenge to a desired level. At some point this level becomes hard, at some it becomes easy. Definition will vary from person to person, that is why I refered to difficulty of Liadri specifically in comparison to other solo challenges in games which are known among many people to be hard.

PvP requires twitch? For sure! But how much is enough? You need X of twitch to beat Lupicus. You need Y of twitch to beat Liadri. How much twitch you need in PvP? When does the challenge in PvP become complete? If you manage to beat Liadri, thats it, you’ve done it. You are now in the “I beat Liadri” club. Mission complete! PvP? Loosing is part of a cycle for every PvP-er. You win, you loose, you win, you loose. If you win a single PvP match, do you crown yourself a master of PvP? Beating Liadri even once seals the deal, you are now a Master of Liadri. Many people will never beat her while even the loosiest of PvP-ers will still win sometimes. PvP <> PvE.

Awe.1096:

Single player games? I believe for example that infamous Dark Souls is easier from Liadri. Mainly becouse it punishes mistakes but it is easier to master over time while Liadri is still a mess even on the 200th try. No area or boss in Dark Souls challenged me so much as Liadri does atm.

This reminds me of a conversation I had someone which started with: “Kushala Daora is dead simple to take care of, at any rank, as long as you time your attacks right you can snipe the head . . . why are you shaking your head at me?”

Though to be fair, I’d more want to see bosses inspired off Ys. Usually a pattern recognition exercise, usually a matter of using the openings you get to win, and almost always awesome music.

Main problem here is not the combat. Are the BEAUTIFUL cameras. If you have a correct set of views you can do this combat easy. But cameras are spawns from hell so the combat is fictionally “hard”. Just that.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Though to be fair, I’d more want to see bosses inspired off Ys. Usually a pattern recognition exercise, usually a matter of using the openings you get to win, and almost always awesome music.

This gauntlet event was sorely asking for some intense, upbeat music to go along with the battles. Really hope they have something when the event returns later.

Well. For what it is worth, I believe that Liadri is the hardest “skill” challenge in any MMO released in the past decade. I played a lot of them and some on highly competetive level. People say that some heroic raid content in WoW is hard (HC Ragnaros, Sunwell, HC Lich King etc. etc.). Truth is, none of those are even close to Liadri in terms of reflex and multitasking requirements from a solo player.

Well, it’s tough to draw a direct comparison here. The biggest problem is the assertion that Liadri requires a lot of “reaction time”, when really it’s the pre-planning that’s important.

Shadowfall, for example, should never be a surprise. You should never be “reacting” to it. Especially in Phase 2, it’s just alternating between one half and the other. If a place was struck by Shadowfall a few seconds ago, it won’t be getting it now, and vice versa. It’s incredibly predictable, and I think that’s the first real “A-ha” moment that people have on this fight.

The other issue with the comparison is that Liadri doesn’t really require much from you other than dodging the Shadowfall. You don’t have to maintain a rotation of skills, or pay attention to resources, or group health, or anything like that. Most classes can beat Liadri with just any ranged auto attack while avoiding Shadowfall.

That said, I wouldn’t really compare Liadri to progression raiding in WoW, for instance. Now if you’re just talking about LFR or something, then yeah. But LFR isn’t meant to be anything more difficult than your average group event in GW2. If you’re pushing for a realm first on a heroic boss in WoW, the fights are generally more taxing on every level than Liadri.

There’s actually nothing wrong with complaining and demand things get changed. Stuff happens.

However, there is something very wrong when it’s not even been 2 weeks, and suddenly something is decried impossible when it clearly isn’t.

It is certainly fair to complain about lag, having to run all the way back, or camera angles. That’s fake difficulty. Other stuff needs much more compelling arguments.

I just beat her 8 orbs on my condi P/D thief.

This wouldn’t have been nearly as bad if, and I guess I’ll say it on the forum for at least the fifth time: the red AoE circles weren’t so hard to see, turning off post processing was a requirement for me (MY EYES AUGH), the obstructed thing with the orbs, and having the cool down period of hiking back or waiting for a rez or just waiting in line.

I LIKE the concept of the fight. Graphics and some clunky controls feel, things beyond our direct control, not so much. Bloody frustrating overall.

It took me about 70 or so tickets. Every 10 fights or so I noticed I was getting better and better at dealing with each thing. I’m used to the old brute force method of learning. Yeah, stuff happens. Frequently. I don’t want to see Liadri happen ever again.

At least, not for now, for sure.

I do think Liadri can be challenging, but not mechanically harder than Heroic Lich King. Sunwell, or Firefighter. While as i don’t believe all players are able to complete this, previous raiders should have no problem

1) don’t stand in the red circles. They may be hard to see, but the pattern is set.
2) range kite the mobs to a certain place, typical of many raid encounters.
3) kill the orb. Projectile obstruction is annoying but timed spawns and bursting down specific mobs are not that new or difficult for raiders.
4) avoid the big attacks from boss in p2. basic tank cd management skill.

For liadri you don’t have the crutch of boss timers so you have to practice and learn it old school. Also you have to do all these things at the same time. For tanks this should be second nature, but for some healers and dps this maybe new for them.

As for one shot mechanics, GW2 has a more action oriented combat system (dodge) and has no trinity. Spike damage for raids is meant to be tanked via, cd’s or brute healing throughput. If the tank misses a CD, he dies, raid wipes. If healers mismanage mana and fail the HPS tests, tank/raid dies and wipes. In GW2 we have dodge to completely mitigate any spike damage, and its on a 10s cd. This is no different than managing tanking/healing cds. If you don’t dodge correctly, you die. The timing is not terribly hard, as you have 2-3 seconds to move, standing in fire for 2-3 seconds will get you killed in a lot of raids.

You have your minor damage from liadri that is easily healed through using yourself heal. The cripple is cleansed via managing your cleansing cds like any good healer should be able to do, or use a sigil of purity/generosity). Liadri is by no means “easy” but if you have the skills to complete Heroic ICC, then liadri should not present too much of a challenge