Guild Wars 2

…not on the wurm please. The reasons for that are:

• There are no 1-hit kill mechanics.
• There are no annoyingly long stuns or immobilizes.
• The organization required for the boss can be done without third-party software.
• There is room for error.
• What you do as an individual matters (you’re not just one of many auto-attackers).
• There are various different roles for players to perform.
• Siege equipment matters but is not vital.
• One inexperienced player cannot make the event fail for everyone else (though several can make it hard, but that’s ok).
• It’s not just a single mechanic that you either master or not, making the fight more interesting.
• It scales better so you don’t lose automatically just because you don’t get 80 players together, but only managed 70.
• It’s accessible to casuals and other non-hardcore organized guilds, without being an instant win faceroll boss.
• It’s appearance isn’t random so you can prepare for it without using websites.
• You get loot even for partial completion so you don’t waste your time completely (the same goes for Tequatl, but if you get to the first stage, chances are very high you’ll beat the event anyway so it’s a fairly useless addition there).
• added: Non-structure setup means precision and critical damage aren’t useless.
• added: The split up fights with the wardens means conditions aren’t useless.

As you can tell, I dispise the wurm…and tequatl to some extent…but I don’t like stuff like the Shatterer much either. The marionette however, I’ll go to just for the fight. The loot is pretty much irrelevant to me (but I added it to the list because it’ll matter to others). That’s how much I enjoy the fight.

I agree with almost all OP points.
I think Marionette has just the right scale, balance and mix of mechanics for open world bosses.

Ray.6149:

I agree with almost all OP points.
I think Marionette has just the right scale, balance and mix of mechanics for open world bosses.

Yes, “just the right scale”, which is why unless you’re in TTS or you hang out in a big server’s LP main all day, you fail the event 90% of the time.

Qaelyn.7612:

Yes, “just the right scale”, which is why unless you’re in TTS or you hang out in a big server’s LP main all day, you fail the event 90% of the time.

Agreed, it’s not perfect, but it’s easier on smaller groups than the wurm and tequatl. Ideally, you’d want platforms that can be soloed and then scale with the amount of players, or maybe a 4 out of 5 platform setup. However, the boss can be done with as little as 10 players per lane (beaten a platform once with just 1 other player) which is a lot better than the 80 minimum the other bosses have.

EDIT: The one thing I would change is the dependency on all platforms. I’m not sure if being able to help out other platforms would be the way to go though, as it could make things too easy. But a 4/5 setup would be good enough to give some leeway.

Qaelyn.7612:

Ray.6149:

I agree with almost all OP points.
I think Marionette has just the right scale, balance and mix of mechanics for open world bosses.

Yes, “just the right scale”, which is why unless you’re in TTS or you hang out in a big server’s LP main all day, you fail the event 90% of the time.

Nothing wrong with failing. It makes winning actually means something. When was last time you felt good about defeating Svanir Shaman at Maw?

Well if they do, hopefully they’ve learned that basing personal achievements on content requiring the actions of others is not going to go over well with us. Just because one platform fails, shouldn’t mean I lose out on my achievement for killing/dodging my own warden/platform.

Agree with OP; although individual players make a huge contribution, one inexperienced player won’t necessarily cause the whole event to fail (can make it much harder, though…).

I think the Tower was also a good stab at open world content, though it was very different. I’m impressed by the variation between the two events. (However, the Tower’s scaling had some issues).

The wurm… not so much.

I like the marionette, although I never managed to beat it myself, it seems pretty doable. The worms might be interesting for more “hardcore” players, but I think for casual players it’ll be too difficult. Maybe if fewer champions spawned around it but as it is now, I think it’s very, very difficult to beat it.

Well. i dont think think they should copy it too much, but i think it shows very good strengths, many of which you hit on.
Ill add to that, its a fairly dynamic, and can be different every time you do it. You arent 100% sure if you will face the same wardens, and you can start out in different lanes. I think its good if future events try to have some more alterable, and some more random elements. Splitting the group up is an excellent idea, and allows the whole event to feel like you matter more.

Id like to see these ideas implemented with a greater scale range, not just content for 60+
i also would like to see maybe more of a dungeon or area, success/actions of other parties can change the path other groups take.

I really do feel the overall direction here is very good, and makes playing it multiple times more entertaining, if they advance even more on these paths, the game could really become a full expression of its potential.

Qaelyn.7612:

Ray.6149:

I agree with almost all OP points.
I think Marionette has just the right scale, balance and mix of mechanics for open world bosses.

Yes, “just the right scale”, which is why unless you’re in TTS or you hang out in a big server’s LP main all day, you fail the event 90% of the time.

That is not entirely true, i just completed it in a overflow and did it severall times in overflows also and the boss is more balanced than most world bosses were you take ages to kill them if you have a small group due to the bad scale, i wish the marrionette was here to stay.

Qaelyn.7612:

Ray.6149:

I agree with almost all OP points.
I think Marionette has just the right scale, balance and mix of mechanics for open world bosses.

Yes, “just the right scale”, which is why unless you’re in TTS or you hang out in a big server’s LP main all day, you fail the event 90% of the time.

I agree. I’ve not beaten Mario although I’ve attempted it on avarage 2-3 times a day. I’m sure I’ve been mega unlucky, but that said. Unless I’m lucky tomorrow the. Between work and social engagements that I can not miss. I’ll never beat her. I really don’t fancy more contnt that I’ll never beat. Don’t get me wrong I’ve had fun doing it. And if it was perminant then I’d be all for it. As sooner or later I’d beat her. But as LS content no thanks.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Qaelyn.7612:

Ray.6149:

I agree with almost all OP points.
I think Marionette has just the right scale, balance and mix of mechanics for open world bosses.

Yes, “just the right scale”, which is why unless you’re in TTS or you hang out in a big server’s LP main all day, you fail the event 90% of the time.

I agree. I’ve not beaten Mario although I’ve attempted it on avarage 2-3 times a day. I’m sure I’ve been mega unlucky, but that said. Unless I’m lucky tomorrow the. Between work and social engagements that I can not miss. I’ll never beat her. I really don’t fancy more contnt that I’ll never beat. Don’t get me wrong I’ve had fun doing it. And if it was perminant then I’d be all for it. As sooner or later I’d beat her. But as LS content no thanks.

Its probably going to be here till march. Its definately going to still be here for the next release, i think colin mentioned in interview people would still be attempting it and edge of mists at same time

This is to OP (wouldve quoted, but then message would be too long)

Let me making something clear first. I do somewhat agree with you. More bosses based on either Mario or Wurm, with actual mechanics rather than “Zerg here” would be great. I would like bosses to actually require conscious thought, instead of the almighty power of zerg autoattack.

My issue is your request that they not be based on the wurm. You do realize most of your points also apply to wurm? These points are in no particular order.

Wurm appears regularly (It and marionette swap hours, soone hour is mario, the other is wurm).

Wurm may not be so much reliant on an individual, Ill give you that, but more of what a squad does. Heck, zerging a wurm is a quick way to fail, since its invincible until you stun it with its particular mechanic.

Room for error? How about that, “If one circle fails to kill their warden, the entire attempt fails”? Wurm has more space for error than that, albeit, not much.

Crit damage and precision are HUGE for the Wurm battle. Yes, that first phase, wurm is structure, and thus no critting it. However, those mobs around, that need to be cleared away? Those can be critted. Phase two wurm, where you have to kill the head in two minutes, and it is a legendary creature? That can DEFINITELY be critted.

Single mechanic? The three wurms EACH have their own mechanic. These mechanics aren’t necessarily easy, but neither are they complex.

One inexperienced player cannot make the event fail. For starters, Mario, more than ANY other boss, suffers from this. One person messing up in the warden fight screws it up far worse than one person messing up than any other boss in general.

Loot for partial completion. Each wurm head you DECAPITATE (not kill, just cut off), you get a better chest. One head-bronze, two-silver, three-gold. You get loot for partial completion.

Various different roles? I don’t seem to understand how that applies to Mario. You are a zerg, repelling mobs from a path. Each path is literally doing the same thing. Yes, there is building of defenses, but more often than not, people build those and drop their wrenches. Inside, you are fighting the same mob the rest of your group is fighting. In wurm, there are DEFINITE roles. You might be on a dps team fighting off the mobs, so objective teams can do their thing. You might be on a condi team, taking out the husks. Maybe you are a keg runner for cobalt, stacking the bombs so people can hit the wurm. There are SO many roles to play in wurm.

One hit Kill? Seriously, what boss in the game has one? Not Mario, Not wurm, not anything that I can think of. Yah, there are some hard hitting attacks, but nothing that is guaranteed to kill you regardless of what you do.

Condis not being useless. I love that Anet decided to make condi classes way more important with these bosses. On wurm, you are pretty much screwed if you do not have condi teams. The husks that wander around the area, ccing you and being a general pain? They have SO much armor, that a full zerker, critting him? Yeah, he’ll do 40 damage crits. They have a relatively low health pool, so condi classes will mess husks up so bad. A necro with Epidemic is worth his weight in gold on wurm.

Accessibility to casuals: Ill give you that mario is more easily accessed. However, people should still just be able to pay attention to strategies being discussed.

Why is everyone hating on coordination via TS? In Marionette, in the battles I’ve seen, the commanders were still on TS, and urged everyone around to get on too. People seem to think that coordination is terribad, and should NOT happen. Is it really so bad that people want to be able to chat while still fighting?

Siege equipment….Why is this a plus? Not ragging on you, just curious.

Ill give you the points on stun, accesibility to casuals, and scaling (wurm has scaling bug), but all of those other points also apply to wurm. I’ll agree wurm is a bit hard, but I believe mario is a bit too zergy. A happy medium would be nice.

All what has been designed in a more proper way is non-permanent while bad designs are.

OP is on the right track, but the Marionette is already dead on my server (Borliss Pass) for 80% of the day. The wurm died the second day and Tequatl has been dead forever.

1. Content needs to scale so that groups can make a realistic attempt with 40-50

2. Content needs to have a legit chance of success or some sort of carrot reward on a fail (Wurm fails awarding one champ box or even less are insulting)

3. One shot mechanics need to be minimized (OP said this, but perhaps didn’t realize how many players get one shot by boss 3 or 4 AoE even while loading into a chain)

Scaling the content so that only huge zergs can complete it is killing the Borliss Pass community. We are the median server (half of servers are smaller than us) so I can only imagine that it gets worse the further own you go. There’s no guarantee enough players will show up so

1. the dedicated players will guest away to other servers where they lack 3rd party voice chat information and thus are little better than leeches to the big servers, who take spots from big server players.

2. Borliss Pass main server attempts don’t have the dedicated players and so fail more often and lack for players more often.

The number of players required to beat an event shouldn’t push up against server limits, that’s what’s causing the overflows and waits.

Scale the fights down for groups reasonable on all servers (there is more to GW2 than Blackgate and Desolation) or fix population numbers, and, yes, it is a good model to use. Otherwise, it sets a bad precedent.

I hate that populations should have such an impact on fight design, but until a better solution for low population servers is found, I dont see these huge fights being fun for large percentages of the population.

Fights that require 80-125 just arent sustainable given the current numbers on most servers. Its that simple and I wish ArenaNet would, at minimum, acknowledge the fact and, at best, let us know they are working to fix the issue.

nekretaal.6485:

OP is on the right track, but the Marionette is already dead on my server (Borliss Pass) for 80% of the day. The wurm died the second day and Tequatl has been dead forever.

1. Content needs to scale so that groups can make a realistic attempt with 40-50

2. Content needs to have a legit chance of success or some sort of carrot reward on a fail (Wurm fails awarding one champ box or even less are insulting)

3. One shot mechanics need to be minimized (OP said this, but perhaps didn’t realize how many players get one shot by boss 3 or 4 AoE even while loading into a chain)

Scaling the content so that only huge zergs can complete it is killing the Borliss Pass community. We are the median server (half of servers are smaller than us) so I can only imagine that it gets worse the further own you go. There’s no guarantee enough players will show up so

1. the dedicated players will guest away to other servers where they lack 3rd party voice chat information and thus are little better than leeches to the big servers, who take spots from big server players.

2. Borliss Pass main server attempts don’t have the dedicated players and so fail more often and lack for players more often.

The number of players required to beat an event shouldn’t push up against server limits, that’s what’s causing the overflows and waits.

Ah, a fellow Borlis Pass player! I agree with many of these points. The primary point that I agree with is that the bosses really do need to scale better with player numbers. Not to the point that you could complete a boss with only ten people per boss, but without requiring that you hardcap the map to even have a chance.

Honestly, the only reason I went to BG was to learn strategies to kill the wurm, and then come back and try to lead BP to victory (“FOR THE PASS!”).

Also, they can’t make the reward for partial completion too good. As we learned from the Clockwork Invasions, if you can get decent loot without even completing the event, people are GOING to farm the event, and not even try to complete it.

Qaelyn.7612:

Ray.6149:

I agree with almost all OP points.
I think Marionette has just the right scale, balance and mix of mechanics for open world bosses.

Yes, “just the right scale”, which is why unless you’re in TTS or you hang out in a big server’s LP main all day, you fail the event 90% of the time.

there is 25% completion on random servers so you % is off by a bit

@Fafnir.

I would guess total completion is about 8% for all servers. I guested on Maguuma yesterday only to find that the event was dead during off hours. Dead meaning nobody. That’s a gold league server too.

If the 6-15 servers are auto fails, how can the total success rate be anywhere decent?

phys.7689:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Qaelyn.7612:

Ray.6149:

I agree with almost all OP points.
I think Marionette has just the right scale, balance and mix of mechanics for open world bosses.

Yes, “just the right scale”, which is why unless you’re in TTS or you hang out in a big server’s LP main all day, you fail the event 90% of the time.

I agree. I’ve not beaten Mario although I’ve attempted it on avarage 2-3 times a day. I’m sure I’ve been mega unlucky, but that said. Unless I’m lucky tomorrow the. Between work and social engagements that I can not miss. I’ll never beat her. I really don’t fancy more contnt that I’ll never beat. Don’t get me wrong I’ve had fun doing it. And if it was perminant then I’d be all for it. As sooner or later I’d beat her. But as LS content no thanks.

Its probably going to be here till march. Its definately going to still be here for the next release, i think colin mentioned in interview people would still be attempting it and edge of mists at same time

I got lucky on Friday and beat her. So not going back now unless it’s a guild attempt.

I agree, the Marionette is a great boss, which can be done even in oveflows with a bit of organisation and luck and it does not have the “stupid” 15min fail mechanic but a cool one. So please bring more bosses like this. I know here in the forums it sounds like it is failing all time, but 1/3 of the time it worked for me and that is a fine success rate. And this was most often on overflows, so it is not server specific.