Guild Wars 2

Spot on Manijin. I think a distinction really should be made between casual gamers and BAD gamers. I never really thought of it before but the introduction of this content by Anet could indeed raise the overall skill level of the population.

Still, content like dungeons and these raids are accessible to every single player. The “play how I want” debate arises from willingness to learn the game not willingness to grind I think.

I have about 2-3 hours to play during the work week and a bit more on the weekends. I’ve been speed clearing for a while now; dungeons and fractals both. I think your skill in this game comes down to a basic understanding of the underlying mechanisms. Past that, each encounter is a tweak to that basic foundation.

I’ve never booted a player for non ascended gear and neither has anyone in my group of clearers. We do however boot for players who cannot stack might, lay worthless fields, bring substandard gear, do not use utilities to help the team, ignore their class basics, and fail to gear for DPS. Why? Because once the game basics are learned, the focus should be placed on these finer points.

I think a big reason events like these are failing is because they are revealing a large chunk of players that cannot play yet. They got to 80 pressing 1 and spamming their skills without any purpose. These players are interrupting stacks, not using DPS gear or boosters, dying and not WPing, not using utilities to raise team DPS and survivability.

I don’t know Anet’s official stance on this but I think this content is a wake up call to these players. If a server can only hold 150 players, each player needs to bring their A game. We wouldn’t take 2 crappy players into a fractal . Why take a 30 crappy players to the Wurm?

The phenomenon of OF instancing is a result of these players that do not know the basic game and refuse to learn. If this sort of content continues, I hope to see a change in these gamers. Then perhaps instancing OFs will not be necessary.

I’ve got no problem with hard content. But, I want good content. And the wurm just isn’t good content. On the other hand the Puppet is extremely Good content.

I tired of listening to players whine about bad players. I love the open world content of which the Puppet is a wonderful example of players working together to do something using what’s available. Learning to achieve bigger goals. The wurm is just a gizmo fest of boringly difficult goals that have very little to do with fighting or using you skills. The wurm is a challenge to do once and forget kind of like Tequatl. The Puppet is fun and could generate interest for some time. Unfortunately, we’re going to keep the Wurm.

Perhaps you should take the Wurm and put it in an instance and then those of us who like to pretend dungeon instances don’t exist can happily go about having fun wiping the Puppet. So keep the Puppet and loose the Wurm.

That’s one of the reasons I dislike wurm and wish we could keep marionette. I really hate the gizmo/gadget fest of the wurm. I have abilities and I would like to use them please, not rely on silly barrels or some other nonsense. If only we could keep the puppet…

These updates are a metaphor for life. I suspect most of the people complaining things are too hard and don’t understand why they can’t have everything with no work are under about 25.

We need to define hard content.

Hard content is content that is made to challenge the players skill to the highest level. The player should be required to have nearly flawless execution of their skills and a thorough understanding of their class in order to pass here said content. Liadri, Lupi and Alphrad are examples of excellent hard content.

The wurm is not hard content. There is nothing challenging in running bombs, running toxins, or standing next to an exploding abomination. The challenge in the wurm encounter stems entirely from trying to organize a collection of 150 random players. Not only is it not hard content, it’s not even video game content. This is kind of challenge that you would find in a college course for business management.

This kind of content, non-video game related content does not belong in a video game.

I am just affraid that hard content like the wurm will be abandoned in a short time because the novelty is over and people go back to other parts of the game.

Why can’t we have both? Because the casual fanbase won’t let it.

Hardcore players have the ability to do anything. They can do everything from wurm to FE. You don’t hear many complaints from them.

But you hear tons of complaints from the casuals who seem like they are entitled to doing everything and anything in this game on their own terms.

Legendary? I want it in a week.
Ascended? I want it in a day.
Crafting? Why must I be forced to spend money crafting?
Hard content? How come it’s not designed for me so I can beat it on first try?

so on and so forth

I think casual players just need to admit to themselves that the game will not revolve only around them and that they need to adjust their expectations on what they can do. You’re not going to get a legendary anytime soon if you play 1 hour a week.You’re not going to kill the wurm or karka if you refuse dodge. You’re not going to afford The Emperor title by making 20s a day

Vol.7601:

Why can’t we have both? Because the casual fanbase won’t let it.

Hardcore players have the ability to do anything. They can do everything from wurm to FE. You don’t hear many complaints from them.

But you hear tons of complaints from the casuals who seem like they are entitled to doing everything and anything in this game on their own terms.

Legendary? I want it in a week.
Ascended? I want it in a day.
Crafting? Why must I be forced to spend money crafting?
Hard content? How come it’s not designed for me so I can beat it on first try?

so on and so forth

I think casual players just need to admit to themselves that the game will not revolve only around them and that they need to adjust their expectations on what they can do.

A post that screams bad. Casual encounters exist in the game but their relation to the Living Story have been, to say the least, dwindling terribly. I think Teq and the Marionette (while the Marionette is not a terribly difficult encounter, it’s difficult by contrast) were kind of established in the Story part. Wurm wasn’t really and hopefully will never be needed for anything Story-related.

I think we can all fondly remember both Halloweens and the Queen’s Jubilee, when LS content was loleasymode, you got it done and took a break from Guild Wars 2 until the next installment.

It may be easy but don’t let difficulty and timeliness be interchangeable.

Vol’s post is the summary of GW2 casuals.

The reason you can’t, or they shouldn’t have content for both (at least the way they have it set up now) is because they will inevitably alienate a portion of the player base, a very large one at that. Obviously, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that alienating the largest part of your player base will spell out dire consequences for the longevity and health of the game. Imagine if the casual base is around 80% and those 80% decided to walk because they felt the content was not made for them. It’s not just 80% walking, that’s 80% of people possibly putting money into the game.

How likely is it that Anet or NCsoft will continue to support their game if their revenue suddenly dropped 80%?

Now, this isn’t to say both can’t exist in the game, but it has to exist in such a way that your largest base doesn’t feel dis-included. Preferably, a system that makes nobody feel dis-included.

I’ve suggested this in the past, and I don’t see why it can’t work here. Have an open world versions of the new bosses, and instanced versions. Instanced versions pose a much bigger challenge. The key though is keeping the rewards the same. Not doing so is likely to, again, make the casual players feel like they are missing out. This way, the hardcore players get their hardcore content and the casuals can do all the content, everyone is rewarded the same. Technically, this should appease everyone, but we all know, there will be some hardcore players complaining that the casuals shouldn’t be getting the same rewards.

That is an entirely a different issue all together related soley to the player. If their enjoyment on the game relies on what other rewards people are getting, that is their own problem.

Your suggestion has only one flaw. Casuals will whine in forums “Why do we have to get bad rewards than that small portion of community? We are the majority, give us everything and give them immediately!”

Phoenixlin.8624:

Your suggestion has only one flaw. Casuals will whine in forums “Why do we have to get bad rewards than that small portion of community? We are the majority, give us everything and give them immediately!”

It has nothing to do with that. Both groups get what they want: rewards, easy content, and hard content. Nobody should be complaining at that point. The only ones would be a collective few that feel casuals shouldn’t be getting the same rewards, which again, is their own problem.

Hardcore players wan’t their hardcore content.. well give it to them; just don’t reward them any better than an open world loot Pinata.

I don’t understand why there is such a fear of elitism here. It already exists in dungeons, fractals, pvp, etc - it is rampant in this game. There is also no reason that fun open world bosses couldn’t continue to exist with the additional introduction of hardcore, instanced content. Just as casuals want to bearbow and do their thing, hardcore players would like to have an environment that is supportive of the play style they enjoy. I tried for 4 days straight to get a Wurm kill, but we were warn down by a lack of dps and the popularity of guesters spamming to join blackgate main flow. I witnessed countless times random players filling timers too early despite our repeated pleas to stop or dps falling entirely short because PVT shout heal builds were brought. Open world hardcore content goes against the entire idea of play how you like/do you own thing content - this content (Wurm) actually requires you to organize, spec correctly, etc and there is a significant portion of players who refuse to do so at the simple claim of elitism. It further questions the point of guilds, friend lists, etc. If we’re just supposed to do everything with the server than why do these features even exist? There is no actual, logical argument to support this current system other than ArenaNet is either 1) complete care bears or 2) unwilling to dedicate the necessary resources to satisfy the full spectrum of its player base. We had 100+ constantly on TS attempting to kill this boss attempt after attempt and there was no single person who ever indicated in any sense whatsoever that they were happy with the open-world approach; in fact a vast majority constantly expressed their frustration with guest spammers, afk’ers, play-how-you-want bearbowers, and those who outright refused to hop on TS and work as a team.

This content itself has been fun; the system around it is unfortunately flawed and I have since refused to participate in it until there is some reasonable resolution to address these issues. Many others feel the same way.

I see claims of ’want hardcore content, go back to WoW’. This is a completely ridiculous statement. Look at the history of any successful online game; LoL, SC2, Dota 2, WoW, Counter-Strike, War 3, C&C, Halo, CoD, fighting game communities, etc. They all have 1 thing in common; hardcore-skilled communities with large populations of casual players as well. It’s a proven concept that communities like this setup; it gives all player types of all skill and interest to set or evolve their level of interest and dedication at the level they currently find appropriate for themselves. ArenaNet did some amazing things here by removing unncessary gear grind and the ability to pick up or set down this game at any point and not be left behind. However, forcing these two types of communities (hardcore/casual) to mix with each other will only lead to toxicity amongst ourselves and it is already quite evident this is the case based on the fact alone this discussion is occurring and popping up often on these forums, reddit, gw2guru, team speak servers, etc.

It saddens me because the only thing holding me in Guild Wars 2 is the stellar combat mechanics; the supportive system around the game has always been lacking and over 1 1/2 years later, this is still the case.

In summary, I have no problems with casual or hardcore players or anything in between; I’m a firm believer in surrounding yourself with like-minded players just as we surround ourselves in real life with like minded individuals because that is what fosters an enjoyable experience. But forcing these worlds to collide only leads to headaches.

I don’t think the problem is the addition of hardcore content. It’s hardcore content put in causal areas, but causal players cannot complete it. The new wurm event is a good example.

How many times have servers beaten the wurm in the last week, since it’s release? Once? Twice? Out 164 possibilities between the European and NA servers….I know a lot of hard core players who no longer bother and hate the event all together.

Every one should be able to complete Every single event playing which ever way they want period. " that was the motto of the game when it was released" where is this “hardcorism” coming from. More stuff like worm comes out more elitists appear that give this game a horrible name, stigma and pollute map chat that make my head hurt. What if you don’t have a guild of 400 people? what if your server constantly overflows and you cant get every one in the guild on the event in order to do it together? What happened to that – “doing things together”? now we are constantly split apart from each other by overflows and elitist flamers – which by the way have turned these forums into a cesspool of idiocy. People guest bomb servers that are successful and abandon their own home server. Before guesting went in people actually learned events and tried harder, now = “why bother i’ll just ride Blackgates coattails”. This needs to be addressed imo Guesting to other servers to mooch content kills and creating content for “hardcore” players is destroying this game.

And before you flamers start flaming, I like the new content i enjoy it and i enjoy the harder events, I got 3600 hours played and 3 legendaries crafted and a wolf rank in spvp i don’t consider myself a casual but i don’t think there should be “hardcore” some stuff should be difficult but not inaccessible to public.

Just looking out for the little guys

Kargath.6598:

Every one should be able to complete Every single event playing which ever way they want period. " that was the motto of the game when it was released" where is this “hardcorism” coming from. More stuff like worm comes out more elitists appear that give this game a horrible name, stigma and pollute map chat that make my head hurt. What if you don’t have a guild of 400 people? what if your server constantly overflows and you cant get every one in the guild on the event in order to do it together? What happened to that – “doing things together”? now we are constantly split apart from each other by overflows and elitist flamers – which by the way have turned these forums into a cesspool of idiocy. People guest bomb servers that are successful and abandon their own home server. Before guesting went in people actually learned events and tried harder, now = “why bother i’ll just ride Blackgates coattails”. This needs to be addressed imo Guesting to other servers to mooch content kills and creating content for “hardcore” players is destroying this game.

And before you flamers start flaming, I like the new content i enjoy it and i enjoy the harder events, I got 3600 hours played and 3 legendaries crafted and a wolf rank in spvp i don’t consider myself a casual but i don’t think there should be “hardcore” some stuff should be difficult but not inaccessible to public.

Just looking out for the little guys

Hey man, I think your post is an excellent one to reply to and I hope it gets the right message across. DocMed had a great post above as well about players flooding servers with sub standard builds.

Now, as I said in my post at the top of the thread, everything in this game is doable by anyone. The Wurm is no exception. The Marionette is no exception. I will grant that they should be level 80 but I doubt that’s the concern. The reason these events are not being completed is because of these OF flooders and server rushers who are just coming for easy achievement points.

The last Wurm attempt I had was this weekend when I had time to play. TTS was running it all afternoon and we were doing better and better on each run. It was exciting, it was fun, and it brought everyone together. Yes, an OF was created (and not everyone on there was TTS) but almost all of those people were on TS or listening intently to commanders and party leaders on what to do.

Some players were still running cleric of healing and whatnot of course but they listened. They listened and they learned. Maybe next time 10% of those players will bring DPS gear. Next time after that 25 %… etc… There is improvement, there is learning, and there is cohesion.

When you compare it to random people who rush to a server for easy achievements you see the inexperienced players who don’t even know the basics of their class or the game as a whole. With these sort of players, you have no chance at all of beating the Wurm. If your server is full of these players, you will have to find a way to get them on the right track. That is the only way. The hard cap will not make it possible to carry this many players who “play how they want”.

For this reason, I’m very much in support of private instances for raid content. Not for the sake of alienating casual gamers. I myself only can play a few hours during the work week. I think it’s for the sake of enjoying content without being hassled by people who just do not care.

If you don’t care about the team, if you don’t care about working together, if you don’t care about what someone more experienced has to say, you don’t deserve to reap any rewards. There is a world of difference between the aforementioned ignorant player and a new or casual gamer. If you don’t know but are willing to listen, to learn, to adapt, to communicate, I find it hard to believe that any team would cast you out. There are a lot of great people with experience who are amazing at this game. Just because there are a few kittenheads out there, doesn’t mean no one will stop to help you learn.

The trouble comes with people who don’t know and don’t care. It’s at that point that I get frustrated. If you don’t care, then you need to get out of this server and make room for someone else who does.

Phoenixlin.8624:

Your suggestion has only one flaw. Casuals will whine in forums “Why do we have to get bad rewards than that small portion of community? We are the majority, give us everything and give them immediately!”

The only whining I see being done currently is by self proclaimed hardcore players.

Phoenixlin.8624:

Your suggestion has only one flaw. Casuals will whine in forums “Why do we have to get bad rewards than that small portion of community? We are the majority, give us everything and give them immediately!”

There is an easy solution here; make the rewards only slightly better for the hardcore content (like 1 unique skin, a unique title, achievements, or just higher overall drop rates of the rare loot table, more gold, etc). It doesn’t have to be ground breaking, but there’s no reason that the base loot tables have to be drastically different.

No there shouldn’t be any distinction at all and every one should be able to enjoy content and rewarded based on same standards

Kargath.6598:

No there shouldn’t be any distinction at all and every one should be able to enjoy content and rewarded based on same standards

Fine, I would even take a system that gives the same loot; I really don’t care. I’ve already said 100x I like the encounters and find them fun; I find it extremely frustrating to have to constantly prod a portion of the community that flood the map to try. Tell me where or how that is fun to anyone? Who likes to be the person that has to constantly ask people to do things that have no interest in doing it all for the sake of completing the content? Which by the way; we’ve still yet to do.

Edit ** - Forgot to point out, Guild Missions & Fractals are also a great example of content that is extremely gated based on game stye and play that also yield unique rewards for these players.

DeadlySynz.3471:

I’ve suggested this in the past, and I don’t see why it can’t work here. Have an open world versions of the new bosses, and instanced versions. Instanced versions pose a much bigger challenge. The key though is keeping the rewards the same. Not doing so is likely to, again, make the casual players feel like they are missing out. This way, the hardcore players get their hardcore content and the casuals can do all the content, everyone is rewarded the same. Technically, this should appease everyone, but we all know, there will be some hardcore players complaining that the casuals shouldn’t be getting the same rewards.

That is an entirely a different issue all together related soley to the player. If their enjoyment on the game relies on what other rewards people are getting, that is their own problem.

I don’t think it’s fair at all to give casual and hardcore players the same rewards. But content, especially content that has some meaningful impact to the LS, is becoming somewhat shrouded in “metagame” mentality. LS content should, and usually does, appeal to a casual playerbase and changes every two weeks – with changes that may impact hardcore players.

A casual gamer looking to enjoy the ride, the lore and the story should be able to do it. One thing I miss about Guild Wars 1 were the schematic differences between Easy (Sorry, Normal) Mode and Hard Mode. Normal Mode was easily accomplished by any means necessary, a way for people to enjoy the game and what it had to offer. Hard Mode, in contrast, was a way for “hardcore” gamers (although by the end of the game’s life Hard Mode was just as easy as Easy Mode) to get more bang for their buck.

With Guild Wars 2 though there’s not really a way to null content and make it a walk for players only interested in the progression. Instead it’s either do the content as provided or not do it at all and never experience it.

I would take your idea but expand it that instanced areas award, at least, twice as much as the explorable world.

I think what we have here isn’t a discussion concerning casual or hardcore content, but yet another thread trying to define the difference between casual and hardcore players. The fact of the matter is that there will not ever be a definitive answer to the question of what a casual or hardcore player is. If you ask 1000 different people, you will get 1000 different answers.

Therefore, I will try to discuss only the content without discussing play styles.

While experienced players consider the marionette “casual” content and the wurms “hardcore” content, someone who has never played games like GW2 would consider both “hardcore” content, and vanilla EQ players would call them both “casual” content.

So it all boils down to perception.

The developers at Anet are trying to give GW2 both types of content. I am sure that they are well aware of the fact that if they go too far one way, they will alienate one set of players, and if they go too far the other, they will alienate another.

The marionette was designed specifically to last through the LS cycle and be gone. By its very nature, it has to be winnable by large groups of people who are only in it for the achievements or to be able to run through an event without worrying to much as to whether they can pewpew better than anyone else. Yes, there are a few mechanics that have to be learned (kittened bosses 2 and 3) but in general, one can pop into the zone, and with a minimum of planning, be able to participate and gain the rewards for doing so.

The wurm, on the other hand is designed as a permanent addition a la Tequatl, only much more difficult to complete (notice I didn’t say that it’s more difficult to participate…) I am by no means an inexperienced player, but I have yet to make more than one attempt, and what I saw going on during that time was mass confusion. As time goes on, people will learn the mechanics, and it will not seem as daunting as it does now, but it is still going to be something that is beyond the player who wants to simply pop in and DPS for a bit and expect to get rewards.

In the end, my opinion (and only mine, as I am not speaking for anyone else) is that there is room in GW2 for both types of content. Players are simply going to have to decide for themselves if they are willing to go through the planning and prep necessary to do a large-scale event such as the wurm, or if being able to jump in and participate on a whim is more to their liking. Personally, I like both, but my time is limited, and planning ahead is the ONLY way I am going to be able to do the wurm. If I want to do that content, then it’s on me to learn it and do it, not on ANet to make it easier for me.

DarcShriek.5829:

Phoenixlin.8624:

Your suggestion has only one flaw. Casuals will whine in forums “Why do we have to get bad rewards than that small portion of community? We are the majority, give us everything and give them immediately!”

The only whining I see being done currently is by self proclaimed hardcore players.

By checking the first two pages in this forum section, most of the complains are because the content is “too hard”.

I think both types of players should be able to coexist. I think both types of content can certainly exist in one game. The problem is that both groups feel entitled to both types of content. Honestly though is the real problem not the attitude of the players? This groupism is so tiresome. Everyone makes up words to describe people. These people are black, white, christian, atheist, tall, short, fast, slow, etc.

In reality there is a broad spectrum of players in GW2. Anet has to draw a line on that spectrum and say “hard content beyond this point.” People who want to do the hard content have to shift themselves beyond that line. If they don’t, they end up here… complaining about “elitism.”

“Casual” content have so much better reward… Just look dj, and look fractal.
Look tequatl, and look how many WB you can do during this time.
Isnt worth it.

And remember… At start, ALL the game is for casual. Nothing hard, nothing for hardcore. Totaly lack of difficulty.

Then yes, they add some content harder than the release content… But, well, actualy i dont think anything in this game is really “hard”. Tequatl isnt… Just really try to do it, and you do it. (Look where ppl do it and come, just have to listen/follow, fight itself is easy in “individual perspectiv”, only organization need some effort, like Wurm.)
Fractal 50 its the same.. Seriously i do regular 49 i cant say is hard… Just need AR and little knowledge. You think is difficult but you try ? Isnt really. But yes, isnt too easy like all other dj.(Only some part is pretty hard, but… Its just cause of stupid amount of damage and random agro. In fact you just try some time and its fine.)

Casual can do ALL content if they look for it. Only fractal need some time now for hit lvl 50 and get AR.
But if you go alone and just wait, dont ask other for know where and how, then yes, isnt so easy.

Actualy for me we have “easy content”, “normal content”, “hard organized WB”, but no real hard content at all.
And.. Well, i dont think i’m so good. Really. xD

I dont think hardcore do something in “normal way” for now except Wurm… Or not for the chalenge.
Speedrun, solo, or something like that, but not normal way, cause its easy.

I have no problem with them including hardcore content, but I do have a few requirements:

1. “Hardcore” content cannot have better/unique rewards. Anything you can get via hardcore content, you should be able to get elsewhere. If a perfect run of the content takes longer than a perfect run of other stuff, then it can offer a higher quantity of reward, like how the Marionette fight offers dozens of greens when you clear it, but it cannot offer a better RNG chance on high rarity loot, or offer anything that similar but non-hardcore content does not offer.

2. It cannot be narrative important. If a player dos not participate in the “hardcore” content, he should still get the full story that the participating player would.

My preferred way to resolve this is the same way that most single player games do it, and the way SAB does it, for that matter, offer different difficulty levels. Have a casual version that presents a reasonable level of challenge, but not too crazy, and which players can be reasonably successful at, and then also offer a “hardcore” version that requires expert skills and coordination, and only a few are expected to complete it. So long as the latter version does not offer any extra rewards, I don’t see the problem in making it available to those who want to do it.

Oh my god, there is a single encounter I cannot beat. This game sucks now.

Ohoni.6057:

I have no problem with them including hardcore content, but I do have a few requirements:

The self-entitlement!
You don’t get to say what’s in the game and what isn’t. You only get to decide whether you play it or not.

Phoenixlin.8624:

Your suggestion has only one flaw. Casuals will whine in forums “Why do we have to get bad rewards than that small portion of community? We are the majority, give us everything and give them immediately!”

And the hardcore will whine, “It’s not hard enough! the normals can do it… and we need gear progression to make it more obvious how good we are”. The Casual / Hardcore debate has been going on for decades.

The original GW2 design was not for a hardcore game, it’s being perverted into one. The best solution I’ve seen was normal mode and hardcore mode in Wrath. Have wurm and marionette being reasonably easy in open world and drop tokens for a hardcore attempt on a much upgraded instanced version that gives some ego-title or skin.

Do hardocre players really need events like this? Where they need to team up with 100 or so people they do not know and failing is quit possible?
Or do they need areas like in GW1, Underworld, domain of anguish and a bit hardmode fissure of Woe. I think these areas in gw1 are much more suited small scale hardcore content the players are looking for.
I always saw people doing these areas, and I do not think the wurm is being done in a few weeks/months?

Kageru.9124:

Phoenixlin.8624:

Your suggestion has only one flaw. Casuals will whine in forums “Why do we have to get bad rewards than that small portion of community? We are the majority, give us everything and give them immediately!”

And the hardcore will whine, “It’s not hard enough! the normals can do it… and we need gear progression to make it more obvious how good we are”. The Casual / Hardcore debate has been going on for decades.

The original GW2 design was not for a hardcore game, it’s being perverted into one. The best solution I’ve seen was normal mode and hardcore mode in Wrath. Have wurm and marionette being reasonably easy in open world and drop tokens for a hardcore attempt on a much upgraded instanced version that gives some ego-title or skin.

I have yet to see a post complaining about something being too easy.

Misty Red Rose.9320:

I don’t think the problem is the addition of hardcore content. It’s hardcore content put in causal areas, but causal players cannot complete it. The new wurm event is a good example.

How many times have servers beaten the wurm in the last week, since it’s release? Once? Twice? Out 164 possibilities between the European and NA servers….I know a lot of hard core players who no longer bother and hate the event all together.

I didn’t know, as a hardcore player, that I wasn’t allowed to do content in ‘casual areas’.

Curious to hear what maps you consider ‘hardcore’

Vol.7601:

I didn’t know, as a hardcore player, that I wasn’t allowed to do content in ‘casual areas’.

Because you totally can. Which is part of the problem – you can, but casual players trying to do content in casual areas are told to GTFO, because they are not hardcore enough.

Ohoni.6057:

1. “Hardcore” content cannot have better/unique rewards.

Selfish. They have to get uniqe reward. Only comestic, yes, but still. Like color skin un SAB.

And.. Actualy the ONLY real hardcore content i see in this game is tribulation in SAB, and many casual do it with tutorial.
(As i say fractal HL isnt hardcore, some is pretty hard, but isnt hardcore at all.)

In my guild i see for sure 5 casual who are done Tequatl many time and run fractal 30+.
And i’m sure in some time its the same for Wurm.

Hardcore, for now, dont run content in normal way and isnt the “masse” of tequatl/wurm first down. Maybe some organize, but isnt the 100player.

Say “casual cant do all content” is false : they can. They just have to searsh for it, like all other player, “normal” or “hardcore”.

Lack of difficult is totaly obvious when you look all content in the game.

The only disadventage for casual is time consuming actualy. (Like.. Get 55 AR…)
But is for all, not only casual. I dont think any hardcore player is happy to grind for 55AR before start fractal 40+.

But i’m ok for one point : no hard/hardcore story content, only “optional”.

Ohoni.6057:

2. It cannot be narrative important. If a player dos not participate in the “hardcore” content, he should still get the full story that the participating player would.

Well don’t play GW1 then. There was a lot of story in the elite dungeons:

1) Sorrow’s Furnace – This place gave us the first real look into dredge society and their fight for freedom, as well as some dwarven history, including the Tome of the Rubicon, a very important book that talks about the Great Destroyer and the Great Dwarf years before Eye of the North brought all that to the forefront.

2) The Deep – A look into the consequences of the Luxon mining activities, what’s lurking down in the depths of the Jade Sea, and why the Outcasts went mad and are killing everyone.

3) Urgoz’s Warren – Similarly, a look at how the Jade Wind affected the guardians of Echovold, causing Urgoz and all of his wardens to go mad and kill everyone, like the Outcasts.

4) Domain of Anguish – A very interesting look at what happens to a fallen god’s minions when he’s defeated and they’re left in the remnants of his realm. Also, we finally got to see the Foundry of Failed Creations, where all of the titans are made.

5) The Underworld – Awesome insight into the workings of Grenth’s realm, including his fight for control with Dhuum and what happens to dead spirits (bringing Gwen down there FTW.)

6) The Fissure of Woe – Similar insight into Balthazar’s realm and his fight for control with Menzies.

Lots of lore and story in all of those, and they certainly were not doable by casuals (until everyone was OP by EoTN anyway.) Look, we need difficult content too, and making that content completely void of plot for the sake of casuals is ridiculous. Get over yourself.

The self-entitlement!
You don’t get to say what’s in the game and what isn’t. You only get to decide whether you play it or not.

Duh.

Selfish. They have to get uniqe reward. Only comestic, yes, but still. Like color skin un SAB.

No. Even the SAB rewards push a little too far, and I mostly don’t care because I only wanted the blue versions anyways, but I would have been very upset about it if they’re made yellow the default and blue the Tribulation versions.

No, the hardcore path does not need and should not recieve unique rewards. That is not selfish,quite the opposite, in fact. Selfish is insisting that only a small group of people should have access to a reward, I’m suggesting that MORE people should have access to it, so I cannot fathom how that could be considered “selfish.”

Say “casual cant do all content” is false : they can. They just have to searsh for it, like all other player, “normal” or “hardcore”.

Lack of difficult is totaly obvious when you look all content in the game.

The only disadventage for casual is time consuming actualy. (Like.. Get 55 AR…)
But is for all, not only casual. I dont think any hardcore player is happy to grind for 55AR before start fractal 40+.

I think you’re confusing the term “casual” for “not very good at the game.” You can be one of the best players in the game and still be casual. What is not “casual,” for example, is joining a specific boss raid guild, guesting to a specific server an hour before the event in question, and camping out there until the event starts. That is not casual, even if the player in question is an idiot who just runs around in circles as the event happens. Casual is just being able to log on right as an event starts, on your home server, with no prior coordination or outside tools, and still stand a reasonable chance of beating the encounter.

Well don’t play GW1 then. There was a lot of story in the elite dungeons:

I don’t plan to.

Look, we need difficult content too, and making that content completely void of plot for the sake of casuals is ridiculous.

First, we don’t need difficult content. You want it, but you’re outnumbered. Second, there is nothing ridiculous about making sure that the story is available to the largest possible number of players. What would be ridiculous would be taking important story information and locking it in a box that only a small portion of the players can open.

Kalarchis.8635:

Ohoni.6057:

2. It cannot be narrative important. If a player dos not participate in the “hardcore” content, he should still get the full story that the participating player would.

Well don’t play GW1 then. There was a lot of story in the elite dungeons:

1) Sorrow’s Furnace – This place gave us the first real look into dredge society and their fight for freedom, as well as some dwarven history, including the Tome of the Rubicon, a very important book that talks about the Great Destroyer and the Great Dwarf years before Eye of the North brought all that to the forefront.

2) The Deep – A look into the consequences of the Luxon mining activities, what’s lurking down in the depths of the Jade Sea, and why the Outcasts went mad and are killing everyone.

3) Urgoz’s Warren – Similarly, a look at how the Jade Wind affected the guardians of Echovold, causing Urgoz and all of his wardens to go mad and kill everyone, like the Outcasts.

4) Domain of Anguish – A very interesting look at what happens to a fallen god’s minions when he’s defeated and they’re left in the remnants of his realm. Also, we finally got to see the Foundry of Failed Creations, where all of the titans are made.

5) The Underworld – Awesome insight into the workings of Grenth’s realm, including his fight for control with Dhuum and what happens to dead spirits (bringing Gwen down there FTW.)

6) The Fissure of Woe – Similar insight into Balthazar’s realm and his fight for control with Menzies.

Lots of lore and story in all of those, and they certainly were not doable by casuals (until everyone was OP by EoTN anyway.) Look, we need difficult content too, and making that content completely void of plot for the sake of casuals is ridiculous. Get over yourself.

kitten how could I forget the deep and urgoz. Best dungeons on the game. Just didnt like the endboss in urgoz but kanaxai was awesome. And his mini was legendary, remember the kamadan shouts? wts kanaxai mini…. and there he was..

Ohoni.6057:

The self-entitlement!
You don’t get to say what’s in the game and what isn’t. You only get to decide whether you play it or not.

Duh.

Selfish. They have to get uniqe reward. Only comestic, yes, but still. Like color skin un SAB.

No. Even the SAB rewards push a little too far, and I mostly don’t care because I only wanted the blue versions anyways, but I would have been very upset about it if they’re made yellow the default and blue the Tribulation versions.

No, the hardcore path does not need and should not recieve unique rewards. That is not selfish,quite the opposite, in fact. Selfish is insisting that only a small group of people should have access to a reward, I’m suggesting that MORE people should have access to it, so I cannot fathom how that could be considered “selfish.”

Say “casual cant do all content” is false : they can. They just have to searsh for it, like all other player, “normal” or “hardcore”.

Lack of difficult is totaly obvious when you look all content in the game.

The only disadventage for casual is time consuming actualy. (Like.. Get 55 AR…)
But is for all, not only casual. I dont think any hardcore player is happy to grind for 55AR before start fractal 40+.

I think you’re confusing the term “casual” for “not very good at the game.” You can be one of the best players in the game and still be casual. What is not “casual,” for example, is joining a specific boss raid guild, guesting to a specific server an hour before the event in question, and camping out there until the event starts. That is not casual, even if the player in question is an idiot who just runs around in circles as the event happens. Casual is just being able to log on right as an event starts, on your home server, with no prior coordination or outside tools, and still stand a reasonable chance of beating the encounter.

Well don’t play GW1 then. There was a lot of story in the elite dungeons:

I don’t plan to.

Look, we need difficult content too, and making that content completely void of plot for the sake of casuals is ridiculous.

First, we don’t need difficult content. You want it, but you’re outnumbered. Second, there is nothing ridiculous about making sure that the story is available to the largest possible number of players. What would be ridiculous would be taking important story information and locking it in a box that only a small portion of the players can open.

The easier something is the lower the reward so you are asking to lower the reward of what people find very rewarding so that u can complete the content. This makes u selfish.

I want challenging content. I don’t want zerg content. Where does that leave me?

Fungalfoot.7213:

I want challenging content. I don’t want zerg content. Where does that leave me?

apparently with the hardcore players.

IS selfish.
In ideal perspective, all content have this own reward, like gw1, like ascended skin tequatl and wurm. Its selfish to stat “i cant do this, so you dont have to get that and not me”. In fact, you’are worng, i do this content so i have reward of this content, its all. ALL game have this, is just normal. And we dont speak about anything better here, only cosmetic.

For your stat about casual : i log at 16h50 today, go lornar pass, and we kill the boss without any lan fail, witout any specific organization, and without the overflow issue. I wait 10min.
What your point about that ?

Its the same for tequatl, except early after release, you can easly join an overflow/server with a serious try at the last moment. Just ask people or searsh for know where and when.
Or, like me and many player, just join a big “fake-guild” with a lot of player who regulary do that event, look who is in the area for easy join.

And, for your last point : the game need difficult content. Player get bored, many ppl leave cause of this : everthing is too easy, its boring if we dont have something other than just “zerg” or “zerk”. Its one the most annoying issues from the game since the release.
Just let them try to fix this, they dont delete all existing content, you lost nothing.

Fafnir.5124:

apparently with the hardcore players.

But the self-professed hardcores on here are currently fawning over content like the wurm, content which I actively loathe and really don’t want to see any more of. The more players you involve the more you diminish the importance of individual skill.

Phoenixlin.8624:

Your suggestion has only one flaw. Casuals will whine in forums “Why do we have to get bad rewards than that small portion of community? We are the majority, give us everything and give them immediately!”

I class my self as a casual player. I’ve been playing since launch. Not once have I asked for anything to b handed to me. I’ve asked for things to be made more fun. Like doing a long possibly time gated treasure hunt for precursors, and or legendary’s, making sure you could craft one way faster than the treasure hunt. As I would find that fun and I’m incapable of saving in game money. But I’ve crafted up acended weapons so it’s not an issue for me. So saying than we all want things given to us is bull. I’m sure there are players out there than after killing there first champ wanted to know where there epic loot was, can here demanding what ever it is, are probably teenagers who just want to stroke there egos.

I’ve enjoyed Mario even though I’ve never seen the event get past 2 chains. But the Wurm is not my cup of tea. It seems to have been made hard and with fiddaly mechanics just for the sake of it. I’ve tyres the fight 3-4 times and didn’t enjoy it once. But I’m sure there are people who love it and I’m glad there is content that will keep them going.

For one all new bosses have scaled rewards so you are reward based on completion so to not to get anything you have a really really bad group. 2nd new bosses are rewarding you based on the skill you exemplify and have scaled rewards based on how u perform.

Wurm cant be comapared to other bosses currently because it had over 5 bugs since its release and is still currently buged and being balanced. So if you don’t want the challenge don’t do him now…

3rd Marionett is considered hard core on the forums and people don’t want more content like it added and rather have constant zerg fests where if u brind the people everything dies. which is currently being complete 1/4 which I feel is an acceptable %success for rewards it gives.

Know how to play you build know boss mechanics and know group mechanics and I think you will find any bosses they add are surprisingly easy.

The easier something is the lower the reward so you are asking to lower the reward of what people find very rewarding so that u can complete the content. This makes u selfish.

I’m not asking anyone’s reward to be lowered. Whatever rewards are given out should be given out, I’m just saying that the rewards should not only go to the most hardcore players. Unselfish.

Casual players spend real cash in the game while hardcore players farm gold. This is what A-net should consider when adding content. I am casual, why would I buy the Mini wurms with my cash if I don’t have a good feeling about the wurm event?
Hardcore players have already made 50 golds to buy gems and get the wurms.
If they want “me” to spend money in their game, they should give “me” something I “can” do. A few tries to succeed is a challenge, more then 20 fails is a “give up”

I see some of you guys hate Triple Trouble, i can understand why.
It’s hard.
But you know what?
I’ve done it. And it was amazing
But the best thing about this encounter was about community.
130-170 ppl on TeamSpeak figuring out what/when/how to beat wurms for couple of days, communication and coordination. And Victory

This would never happen without such kind of content. Thank you for this ANet

If you wish to take a look and hear for yourself, check those videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EWqRdw87Ls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4KNWDqb8Tk

Ronah.2869:

Casual players spend real cash in the game while hardcore players farm gold. This is what A-net should consider when adding content. I am casual, why would I buy the Mini wurms with my cash if I don’t have a good feeling about the wurm event?
Hardcore players have already made 50 golds to buy gems and get the wurms.
If they want “me” to spend money in their game, they should give “me” something I “can” do. A few tries to succeed is a challenge, more then 20 fails is a “give up”

if we put what u say into practice with current marionette 20 tries = 5 wins with the current 25% success rate if you are looking to rng servers. If you are doing with a group u know it is a 100%success rate. Hard content =/ impossible. possibility of failure with each attempt doesn’t=/impossible

Wurms are in a liege of their own in difficulty due to numerous glitch and ridiculous time constraints. Finally there is not a lot about the mariounet you can complain about because the rewards almost exactly scale with the %sussess you have for it for a run. And if you cant do bosses 1 and 2 4 and 5 there with a random group then you should really re-evaluate how u approach the bosses.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Ohoni.6057:

I have no problem with them including hardcore content, but I do have a few requirements:

The self-entitlement!
You don’t get to say what’s in the game and what isn’t. You only get to decide whether you play it or not.

This is the same for both sides of the debate here so what is your point?