Guild Wars 2

“Let them add content for this type of player” and “Dont add something i cant do, or without any specific reward cause i cant have it” isnt the same, i think.

Astralporing.1957:

Vol.7601:

I didn’t know, as a hardcore player, that I wasn’t allowed to do content in ‘casual areas’.

Because you totally can. Which is part of the problem – you can, but casual players trying to do content in casual areas are told to GTFO, because they are not hardcore enough.

If you are referring to players attempting to do the wurm and asking people to either participate or leave, then why shouldn’t we have instanced raids? It would keep the hardcore people out of the casuals way and vice versa.

[sarcasm=Oh but wait that will somehow create elitism (as if it didn’t exist before) and split the community (as if it weren’t split before) and toxify the community… [/sarcasm]

HOW?

I actually wish for more hardcore content in the game to challenge myself. I do not see tequatl or the wurm as hardcore content…it is not…it is actually very easy content that was made into ANNOYING content that relies on 149 other random people to complete. The fact that ANET placed it in lower level areas in my opinion is a huge fail. These two events should be instanced or nerfed. They are stupid. You cannot put an event that requires well-geared, well-organized groups of players in an area that is frequented by level 50-65 medium geared players who most often are in those areas to mine the rich platinum and rich gold nodes (or finish their personal story).

ANET needs to give more hardcore content, but they need to give it an instance or put it in a level 80 zone. The problem with Teq and Wurm is not between hardcore players and casual players, the problem is between good players and bad players…and quite simply, someone who is only level 50 is not a good player yet….they might be super hardcore….but are definitely not good yet at their class. (Although arguably, probably still better than many bad players).

However, if someone happens to be in a level 50 zone and sees an event and joins it because they see the event pop up and think “this could be fun” it is not their fault, it is the fault of the developer who put the event in the level 50 zone where that player could see it and join it since they were already in the zone.

Harder content should give cosmetic or vanity rewards, but not better gear…because that starts a REALLY stupid trend of the good players getting better and better gear and then demanding harder and harder content because the previous content got too easy because they now have better gear…but they should definitely have something to show that the accomplished the feat.

Claiming yourself to be “HARDCORE” in this game is like winning special Olympics – yes you can sit on your kitten for 8-12 hours kudos. Yes you can zone into a map with 150 people on it concentrating on the same thing – kudos.
That doesn’t make you hardcore and it never has. I don’t understand where the “hardcore” title is coming from. What makes you hardcore? Claiming that you can do content that most people cant, DOES NOT MAKE YOU HARDCORE, you didn’t accomplish a worm kill by yourself now did you? It took a collaborated effort of 150 or so people that worked together.

Its not right that some one who plays 8-10 hours a day thinks themselves any different from some one who plays 2-3.

Now as far as content goes people need to stop labeling is x – is hardcore y – casual
content is content because a) all forms of content require some sort of minimal organization/participation. b) every one CAN and SHOULD BE ABLE TO participate in this games’ content. The choice is always yours to go or not to go.

But but but… “i watched videos on dulfy.net” “i read ahead and came prepared” “i used a potion/food/consumable and therefore i am elite hardcore player!” WRONG you are not, you simply made a choice to do so as you participated in content AVAILABLE TO PUBLIC.

“i am getting bored because content is too easy for me” – perhaps you should mow the lawn, rake up leaves, shovel driveway, plant a tree and raise a family? Now i am not saying you should quit the game because you specifically find this game not challenging enough but then again you didn’t kill the worm by yourself did you? you might be slightly better at dodging or removing conditions, in the end the result is always the same 150 or so people did it and its the way it should be

EVERY ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN EVERYTHING, PLAYING HOW THEY WANT – WIN AND GET REWARDED ACCORDING TO THE SAME STANDARDS

that is what this game was when it came out and that is how it should stay.

Fungalfoot.7213:

I want challenging content. I don’t want zerg content. Where does that leave me?

I don’t know, somewhere that is Not Here? All the “challenging” bosses we’re talking about promote zerging, and cannot be done with skill alone, without having huge numbers on your side. The only one that cares about individual skill is Marionette, and does it in the worst possible way.

Fafnir.5124:

if we put what u say into practice with current marionette 20 tries = 5 wins with the current 25% success rate if you are looking to rng servers. If you are doing with a group u know it is a 100%success rate. Hard content =/ impossible. possibility of failure with each attempt doesn’t=/impossible

Let’s say i AM doing the event with a group i know, that we improved event after event, until we do everything perfectly. There are 30 of us in the zone. By your reasoning we should have 100% (or close) succes rate, right?

Before you say something, this is something that actually happens on low pop servers.
No, sometimes “impossible” means “impossible”.

Not really about how casual or hardcore, it’s about how much you care to learn the encounter and not screw over the team.

There are people trying to get into your server/OF…people that care. If you don’t care, please leave and let them in.

Gbok.1039:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Ohoni.6057:

I have no problem with them including hardcore content, but I do have a few requirements:

The self-entitlement!
You don’t get to say what’s in the game and what isn’t. You only get to decide whether you play it or not.

This is the same for both sides of the debate here so what is your point?

Difference is that the self-proclaimed hardcore players are not asking the devs to dumb the game down to the point that you’re rewarded for breathing and drooling.

I’ve always thought that rewards should be based on the effort put to obtain them, not on how much you claim that you deserve them.

I don’t mind if there are rewards only available through the toughest content… As long as other players can acquire the same reward through other means. Namely, the TP. Everything should be able to be bought and sold on the TP.

Zaxares.5419:

I don’t mind if there are rewards only available through the toughest content… As long as other players can acquire the same reward through other means. Namely, the TP. Everything should be able to be bought and sold on the TP.

Almost everything can be sold on the TP these days, except for a few things such as Fractal weapons.

aspirine.6852:

I am just affraid that hard content like the wurm will be abandoned in a short time because the novelty is over and people go back to other parts of the game.

99% of the games servers will have abandoned the wurm within a week, if they haven’t already. Only TTS and Anet’s golden servers (the biggest ones) will ever touch it again.

You know, exactly what happened to Tequatl months ago.

The issue is not whether the content is challenging for serious players or casual players. The issue is about how serious players can exclude casual players to the extent the server can win. In other words, it is about server population and casual vs serious make-up.

That is what takes the fun out of the game. Individual skill will never give you a win. Even three highly-skilled groups will fail perpetually with 135 other random players so skill no longer has anything to do with winning.

Wining these events has become all about server organizational skill. If you have a large guild or alliance, you can port each other into an overflow. You can even guest on servers with better win probabilities. None of that requires individual player or team skill. All you have to do is find a winning team and face-roll to a victory.

That method of achieving success is actually very practical in real life. I think that is what Arenanet’s message to player is: Find better players and insert yourself into their group for an easier ride.

Exactly, they want you play with other player( welcome to MMO world), and if they are beter, hope your learn something.

But, you know, after this maybe the nextnewcomer in that type of event follow you.

And… What is bad in that ? You can do the event, casual or not, help other in the same moove, maybe involontary incrase your skill, and maybe the next casual learn something from you. Totaly worth it.

Ho, and, we have free guesting for that type of event, server isnt a valid excuse. If you want to do something, you can.

But yes, like in gw1 and many other game, new event need lot of time at the start.

(But now, actualy, if you want marrionette in EU srv just guest server like Vizunah or Desolation, you can do it easly now… Down almost all try except night… I’m sure some other server do this too and/or its the same for some NA srv. Same for tequatl…)

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Zaxares.5419:

I don’t mind if there are rewards only available through the toughest content… As long as other players can acquire the same reward through other means. Namely, the TP. Everything should be able to be bought and sold on the TP.

Almost everything can be sold on the TP these days, except for a few things such as Fractal weapons.

Yes, exactly. EVERYTHING should be tradable; Fractal weapons, LS back skins, SAB TM skins, crafted Ascended gear etc.

I believe all players should be able to experience and enjoy all content, that there should be no gated content. Yet I also agree that there should be content for all types of players, that hardcore players wants should not be dismissed simply to gain casual players approval. Hardcore players should have challenging and rewarding content, that makes them enjoy the game, otherwise, what is the point of playing? Or should GW2s forsake one player base for another? You could say hardcore content excludes casual players, but doesn’t it go both ways?

And really, hardcore player content is not impossible for casual players, it simply requires them to go the next step, to do their best, and possibly, even improve as players. Maybe we cant win it all the time, but would it really be fun if all victories were assured, handed to us? And when you get that ONE victory, and swear never to do it again, you still feel proud, don’t you?

Finally Fantasy 13, Mission 51… if I ever manage to defeat it… after hours and countless attempts… NEVER AGAIN! But I still want to do it.

And dully noted, there is also the option to make two versions of content, such as how fractals have levels, there could be a casual player and hardcore player mode, the latter of which more challenging and rewarding.

Kargath.6598:

PLAYING HOW THEY WANT

This is the most disgusting excuse in this forum. Sorry but, for instance in Wurm fight you are not allowed to play how you want. It is not because we are elite or hardcore, it is because there is a working system in that fight. Every single player in that map HAVE TO play according to that system. It is not because we are elite and you are not, it is because we are wasting our times to do something in there, and your ignorance can cause us a failure. Just because you wanna play as you want, you can’t waste x many players’ time that are participating to an event.

You have to understand that whether you are playing +10 hours or -10 hours, if you participate a big event, you have a responsibility to other players in that map, like the other players have a responsibility to you.

Chris RJ.1843:

Not really about how casual or hardcore, it’s about how much you care to learn the encounter and not screw over the team.

There are people trying to get into your server/OF…people that care. If you don’t care, please leave and let them in.

Best meme I’ve seen in a long time.

Kargath.6598:

Claiming yourself to be “HARDCORE” in this game is like winning special Olympics – yes you can sit on your kitten for 8-12 hours kudos. Yes you can zone into a map with 150 people on it concentrating on the same thing – kudos.
That doesn’t make you hardcore and it never has. I don’t understand where the “hardcore” title is coming from. What makes you hardcore? Claiming that you can do content that most people cant, DOES NOT MAKE YOU HARDCORE, you didn’t accomplish a worm kill by yourself now did you? It took a collaborated effort of 150 or so people that worked together.

Its not right that some one who plays 8-10 hours a day thinks themselves any different from some one who plays 2-3.

Now as far as content goes people need to stop labeling is x – is hardcore y – casual
content is content because a) all forms of content require some sort of minimal organization/participation. b) every one CAN and SHOULD BE ABLE TO participate in this games’ content. The choice is always yours to go or not to go.

But but but… “i watched videos on dulfy.net” “i read ahead and came prepared” “i used a potion/food/consumable and therefore i am elite hardcore player!” WRONG you are not, you simply made a choice to do so as you participated in content AVAILABLE TO PUBLIC.

“i am getting bored because content is too easy for me” – perhaps you should mow the lawn, rake up leaves, shovel driveway, plant a tree and raise a family? Now i am not saying you should quit the game because you specifically find this game not challenging enough but then again you didn’t kill the worm by yourself did you? you might be slightly better at dodging or removing conditions, in the end the result is always the same 150 or so people did it and its the way it should be

EVERY ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN EVERYTHING, PLAYING HOW THEY WANT – WIN AND GET REWARDED ACCORDING TO THE SAME STANDARDS

that is what this game was when it came out and that is how it should stay.

Pretty certain I lost some brain cells reading this pile of contradiction.

Zaxares.5419:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Zaxares.5419:

I don’t mind if there are rewards only available through the toughest content… As long as other players can acquire the same reward through other means. Namely, the TP. Everything should be able to be bought and sold on the TP.

Almost everything can be sold on the TP these days, except for a few things such as Fractal weapons.

Yes, exactly. EVERYTHING should be tradable; Fractal weapons, LS back skins, SAB TM skins, crafted Ascended gear etc.

No. Please, no. We need less tradable rewards, not more. Tradable rewards have many inherent problems:

• Lack of prestige. If a reward is tradable it no longer signifies an accomplishment, it signifies that you either accomplished something or chickened out and farmed the gold/paid the real money to get the gold for it.

• Leads players to seek out uninteresting reward loops. Seriously, grinding gold isn’t interesting, Being presented with a challenge and having a reward associated with defeating that challenge is interesting.

Also, I don’t see what your problem is with rewards being accessible only through difficult content. If we were, say, gating high stats behind something like the wurm I’d see your point. But why shouldn’t people who accomplish things get something to signify that accomplishment?

Why would the fact that something is tradable diminish its prestige? If you earned it yourself, you KNOW you got it the “hard way”. Why do you care what some random stranger thinks about how you got it? Get rewards because YOU think it’s cool or that it looks good on you, not because other people think it’s cool. Public opinion changes all the time, but at the end of the day, it’s you who has to live with the choice.

As an example, back in GW1 I earned my Legendary Survivor title on my Paragon by taking him through all 3 campaigns, both Normal Mode and Hard Mode. Then, Eye of the North came out, and the title got trivialised by Fronis dungeon runs. Was I upset? Heck no. I had the satisfaction of knowing that I got it the hard way, and nobody can ever take that away from me. I don’t care if someone looked at me and says that I probably just did Fronis runs; I don’t have to prove anything to him. I got the title for my own satisfaction, not to show it off to strangers.

And besides, even if someone did just farm the gold and buy the item, they still had to put in a lot of work to get it. (Maybe more. If you did Fractals level 21 for the first time and got a lucky Fractal skin drop, does that mean you earned the skin more than the guy who had to farm for 100+ hours to get the gold to buy it from you?) Is that work somehow worth less than yours? Even if they just opened their wallet and bought gems to trade for gold, they’re still giving up something of value.

Shouldn’t the title of this thread be Hardcores > All Others? Because most of you are not even discussing the content, just proclaiming you are entitled to content to show off how great you are. Btw… chest thumping is rather appalling behavior if no one ever taught you.

For a hard mode or higher level of difficulty, you do know you can easily and cheaply obtain White gear. Which is a far cry from the expense stemming from Anet’s implementation of newer “Challenging” content.

For the future, how much new content should be “hardcore” content? Because if a high percentage of players are beneath you Elites, then a large percentage of new content should be beneath you too, right?

It’s always this way DeWolfe, the forums are a self-selected sample of the most dedicated players. I would expect the vast majority of GW2 players have never checked out the forums and certainly do not read them regularly. These more dedicated players want hardcore content (because ego has been attached to in-game achievement and / or they’re bored) and they want people to know about it (forum boasting and the demand for exclusive signs in game of their achievements). This has been the case since EQ1.

In the end though Anet has the tools, and I’m pretty sure interest, enthusiasm and successes in these new events has involved a subset of the server population and rapidly dropped. Whether this is through the skilled / dedicated getting what they want and moving on or the less skilled / dedicated giving up.

Zaxares.5419:

Why would the fact that something is tradable diminish its prestige? If you earned it yourself, you KNOW you got it the “hard way”. Why do you care what some random stranger thinks about how you got it? Get rewards because YOU think it’s cool or that it looks good on you, not because other people think it’s cool. Public opinion changes all the time, but at the end of the day, it’s you who has to live with the choice.

As an example, back in GW1 I earned my Legendary Survivor title on my Paragon by taking him through all 3 campaigns, both Normal Mode and Hard Mode. Then, Eye of the North came out, and the title got trivialised by Fronis dungeon runs. Was I upset? Heck no. I had the satisfaction of knowing that I got it the hard way, and nobody can ever take that away from me. I don’t care if someone looked at me and says that I probably just did Fronis runs; I don’t have to prove anything to him. I got the title for my own satisfaction, not to show it off to strangers.

And besides, even if someone did just farm the gold and buy the item, they still had to put in a lot of work to get it. (Maybe more. If you did Fractals level 21 for the first time and got a lucky Fractal skin drop, does that mean you earned the skin more than the guy who had to farm for 100+ hours to get the gold to buy it from you?) Is that work somehow worth less than yours? Even if they just opened their wallet and bought gems to trade for gold, they’re still giving up something of value.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Having things to show off your accomplishments to other players (in a non-chest-thumping sort of way) is a fundamental design concept that has been part of MMORPGs since they were first conceived.

Manijin.3428:

.

This idea that EVERYBODY needs to be capable of doing all of the available content in the game has been executed, I believe, incorrectly. While everyone should have ACCESS to the game they paid for (no IRL cost-gating for content), and all content should be completable (no 5 second rage timers or something silly :P), there can, and should, exist difficult content that only the well-practiced and prepared teams can overcome. This gives people something to work towards, and truly rewards them for their effort.
:P

OP what server are you on?

I am on the median server, right in the middle of servers. Half of the servers are bigger, half are smaller than us.

At this point, Tequatl and the Wurm (and even the marionette during 80%) of the day are impossible. The reason: not enough players. Yeah, guesting exists, dedicated TTS guilds exists, but these make the problem WORSE. We hardly have enough players to o something, and 25% of the possible population ditches us. (They ditch us because there is no guarantee that enough players will show to make an attempt).

At this point, I don’t even care about the bosses, I am more concerned about what the constant emigration is doing to the community (even less players, dedicated players, community players, and organization than before).

And I am on the median server, half of servers are in even worse shape than we are.

Tl;DR. These mega Zerg events are killing servers that have trouble fielding a mega Zerg, which is over half of all NA servers.

DeWolfe.2174:

Shouldn’t the title of this thread be Hardcores > All Others? Because most of you are not even discussing the content, just proclaiming you are entitled to content to show off how great you are. Btw… chest thumping is rather appalling behavior if no one ever taught you.

For a hard mode or higher level of difficulty, you do know you can easily and cheaply obtain White gear. Which is a far cry from the expense stemming from Anet’s implementation of newer “Challenging” content.

For the future, how much new content should be “hardcore” content? Because if a high percentage of players are beneath you Elites, then a large percentage of new content should be beneath you too, right?

you realize that people dont simply want the type of difficulty you get from lowering stats right? whats hard about these events isnt even stat based, its skill/organisation based.

And the reason why its not a discussion about casual content, is because there is loads of casual content, and hardcore people arent trying to get rid of it.

Also this whole debate isnt really about casual and hardcores, its more about the people who want everything in the game to fit their desires, and the people who want a variety of content of varying scales. There are many casual players who are fine with this content existing, many hardcore who dont really like the content, many casual who do the content with their friends who do the dirty work of organization.

Kageru.9124:

It’s always this way DeWolfe, the forums are a self-selected sample of the most dedicated players. I would expect the vast majority of GW2 players have never checked out the forums and certainly do not read them regularly. These more dedicated players want hardcore content (because ego has been attached to in-game achievement and / or they’re bored) and they want people to know about it (forum boasting and the demand for exclusive signs in game of their achievements). This has been the case since EQ1.

In the end though Anet has the tools, and I’m pretty sure interest, enthusiasm and successes in these new events has involved a subset of the server population and rapidly dropped. Whether this is through the skilled / dedicated getting what they want and moving on or the less skilled / dedicated giving up.

no the forum is the forum goers, they range from dedicated, to people who just like talking, to people who have an opinion. The truth is the people who claim the represent casuals really dont. People complaining about achievments are probably not that casual, because having to get every achievement isnt very casual. In all honestly this debate is probably more between the hardcore time investers (even if you only play a little, if you are commited to play continously, you are a time invester) versus the hardcore skill rewarders.

phys.7689:

Kageru.9124:

It’s always this way DeWolfe, the forums are a self-selected sample of the most dedicated players. I would expect the vast majority of GW2 players have never checked out the forums and certainly do not read them regularly. These more dedicated players want hardcore content (because ego has been attached to in-game achievement and / or they’re bored) and they want people to know about it (forum boasting and the demand for exclusive signs in game of their achievements). This has been the case since EQ1.

In the end though Anet has the tools, and I’m pretty sure interest, enthusiasm and successes in these new events has involved a subset of the server population and rapidly dropped. Whether this is through the skilled / dedicated getting what they want and moving on or the less skilled / dedicated giving up.

no the forum is the forum goers, they range from dedicated, to people who just like talking, to people who have an opinion. The truth is the people who claim the represent casuals really dont. People complaining about achievments are probably not that casual, because having to get every achievement isnt very casual. In all honestly this debate is probably more between the hardcore time investers (even if you only play a little, if you are commited to play continously, you are a time invester) versus the hardcore skill rewarders.

You have a point, a “casual” probably doesnt come onto the forum, I have lots of friends in that category, who could care less about what people talk about on the forum. They are not here. Pretty much if you come to the forum, you are probably not “casual” anymore, because you are putting in extra effort towards the game.

Twisted, Wurm, and Teq ought to be instanced. Make it group alliances. Enable stat and gear check by alliance leaders who can decide whether to accept a group. Elitist or not, it should help ensure all participants are prepared and serious.

I honestly do not understand the disdain towards making Raid Instances (or Lairs, or whatever the hell you want to call them) in Guild Wars 2 that accommodates 20 some odd people, I really don’t.

Nothing is stopping you, the casual player, from getting nineteen other like minded individuals and zoning into the Raid and attempting Tequatl, The Wurms, or Raid Boss #3, and with the good ’ole Group Finder system, you can easily flag your group, find a party, or merge your current party with another and get in there and tackle the content.

The only problem that I see, and I think this is the big issue, is that your chances of success are suddenly wholly dependent on your personal skill, and that small group you associate with, since you’re not longer that one person out of over a hundred riding on others success praying you complete the encounter, and at the end of the day, I really do think that’s the issue with these arguments of “Casual Vs Hardcore”.

Just because you’re a casual player does not mean you get a pass for being a bad player. I know of plenty of casual players in other MMOs and games I play that, while they may not be on as much as others, they still know their class, come to Raids and Dungeons with their A-Game, and learn the encounters before hand so they aren’t a detriment to the group. A casual player refers strictly to the amount of time they can invest into the game, it has no bearing on their actual skill.

However, players that have no interest in learning how to play their classes properly, tout the almighty “I play the game however I want” motto, and are actual detriments to their groups likely wouldn’t like Raid Dungeons, as suddenly they’re being held a lot more accountable for their actions, their gearing choices, and their individual skill. While I would love to believe in Anet’s optimism that events like these will change individuals such as those, it won’t, which is why the idea of instanced raid content likely terrifies them, because suddenly it’s content they can’t participate in because they have no desire to become a better player, and can no longer ride in the shadows of a hundred other people in a world boss zerg.

But at the end of the day, a group of twenty casual players, that know their Classes, how to use their skills correctly, and know how to dodge and follow encounter mechanics would have no problem downing a boss like the Wurm after a little practice, even in a pick up group, so explain to me again how placing these bosses in raid dungeons is a bad thing? Just start up your own group if you don’t want to deal with “elitism” or requirements that you can’t fit, but if you fail, you only have yourself to blame.

And really, is personal accountability really that bad of a thing to have in an MMO?

Simple – people don’t want to work in their free time, they want to relax. Work is to get money and the opposite of fun. I guess people who never worked can’t understand that. At least that’s my understanding why so many young players are so annoyingly obnoxious against people just having fun…

I honestly do not understand the disdain towards making Raid Instances (or Lairs, or whatever the hell you want to call them) in Guild Wars 2 that accommodates 20 some odd people, I really don’t.

I’d have no problem with them adding raid instances, so long as you could get the same rewards for doing something else for the same amount of time. I wouldn’t want to be in the position of “do the raid or you don’t get this cool thing,” but so long as the raid is added as something for people to do, rather than as a way for them to get exclusive loot, I’d have no problem with it.

nekretaal.6485:

OP what server are you on?

I am on the median server, right in the middle of servers. Half of the servers are bigger, half are smaller than us.

At this point, Tequatl and the Wurm (and even the marionette during 80%) of the day are impossible. The reason: not enough players. Yeah, guesting exists, dedicated TTS guilds exists, but these make the problem WORSE. We hardly have enough players to o something, and 25% of the possible population ditches us. (They ditch us because there is no guarantee that enough players will show to make an attempt).

At this point, I don’t even care about the bosses, I am more concerned about what the constant emigration is doing to the community (even less players, dedicated players, community players, and organization than before).

And I am on the median server, half of servers are in even worse shape than we are.

Tl;DR. These mega Zerg events are killing servers that have trouble fielding a mega Zerg, which is over half of all NA servers.

What if i told you they have right, and YOU have wrong ?

Dont need more explain than the current situation for FR server :
If you are right, only 1 server can do that type of event : Vizunah.
Current situation : ALL server can do this.
We know we cant alone (Vizunah too now, early we can, now.. not enough people doing this.)
So we create “inter server” guilde, not restricted, only “we do that type of event, be serious, come”, inter-server. So now, we just go in a random fr server, PM all guy in this guild, send annouce in LA, and do the event.(i see 3 or 4 PM all time i play, and i dont play so much this time.) So Median, little, and big server can do this. We have 2 or 3 guild like this, all of them have fr pple from diferent server, we dont care of main server. And you can come if you are not in the guild, just need 1 player per guild : if he want invit other people its ok. So all fr in fr server can do tequatl. Easy trick.
Some time we are “forced” to run the event in 2 server at the same time…

If you speak english, please, dont tell me you are not enought…

Just pull your head out of this kittening box.

You can guest, you can multiguild, use this.

Manijin.3428:

Do you remember the first time you beat a video game, only to discover that you’d missed a whole bunch of side quests or bonus content? Did it cheapen the experience for you?

The problem is, the answer to this question is yes. And this is one of the biggest problem with casual vs. hardcore content.

First, I have to say this: difficult does not mean hardcore. What differentiates a casual gamer from a hardcore gamer is time investment. There are games out there that require literally days of grinding to get the necessary stats or items to even attempt content, and then it is really easy. There are games that are difficult, but you can just pick up and play quickly. The confusion comes from hardcore players having more practice, which leads to them generally being better at the game.

Now, with that misconception out of the way… there has always been a very big issue with gated content, whether it be skill based, gear based, or time based: inequality in rewards. Reward not just being shiny trinkets or new gear, but also story based or fun based rewards. Yes, that is right: the reward can be where you have fun with the game. I’ve seen it a lot in older MMOs, that require weeks of grinding and praying to the RNG gods before you can get to the part of the game that is supposed to be fun to play.

GW2 is trying to have it so there is content for everyone, but which content you like to play depending on skill level, time dedication, hardware specs, timezone, and personal preference ultimately leads to which rewards you have access to. By making one thing a “casual” part of the game, and another thing a “hardcore” part of the game, what Areanent is doing is just cutting off the casual players from some of the rewards of the game. The unfortunate part is that hardcore players often demand that casual players be cut off from their “special places”.

Now, this is not a unique problem. Thankfully, game designers figured out how to deal with this issue decades ago: It’s called a difficulty slider. It lets players have a customizable experience without detracting from the content or rewards of the game as a whole.

As for how GW2 could do this, it is quite simple: have two instances of all non-PVP areas of the game: a normal mode, and a hard mode. Normal mode would basically be the game we have now, with a few things made easier. Hard mode would be… harder, but would give some paltry higher reward, like 10% increase on gold or item rarity or something. Enough to entice players, but not enough to make it overpowered.

That way, the game can really be designed to appeal to both categories, but without withholding rewards from one group.

This wasn’t hardcore content. This was content that was not thought out correctly.

The Marionette fight is a great fight, well thought out. However it had a flaw in the platforms when only 1-2 people would be teleported up to kill the warden. This issue was never addressed and made the encounter difficult. I only once got into my own serves map during the event. The rest of the time I was in overflows.

The Wurm event however was a very very poorly implemented fight. This fight forced people to attempt to organise 150+ people. All fine and well. Where the issue lies is that I never got into my own servers zone, I was always in an overflow. What makes it even worse is that you are then trying to organise an overflow where people speak 5 different languages (EU servers). Add to that at times we only had maybe 30 players in the overflow to attempt the boss’s.

I am all for hard content, however it has to be tested properly, implemented properly, and scale properly for those of us unfortunate enough to be always in overflows.

On a side note, you can tell if something has been successful by the amount of people that have completed it. The Marionette fight I would say has been very successful. Alot of people have completed it and alot of people found it challenging. The Wurm event on the other hand I feel (and this is my own opinion) has been a resounding failure. How many servers have beaten it ? 3 I think. Can this be called a success ?

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Manijin.3428:

Do you remember the first time you beat a video game, only to discover that you’d missed a whole bunch of side quests or bonus content? Did it cheapen the experience for you?

The problem is, the answer to this question is yes. And this is one of the biggest problem with casual vs. hardcore content.

First, I have to say this: difficult does not mean hardcore. What differentiates a casual gamer from a hardcore gamer is time investment. There are games out there that require literally days of grinding to get the necessary stats or items to even attempt content, and then it is really easy. There are games that are difficult, but you can just pick up and play quickly. The confusion comes from hardcore players having more practice, which leads to them generally being better at the game.

Now, with that misconception out of the way… there has always been a very big issue with gated content, whether it be skill based, gear based, or time based: inequality in rewards. Reward not just being shiny trinkets or new gear, but also story based or fun based rewards. Yes, that is right: the reward can be where you have fun with the game. I’ve seen it a lot in older MMOs, that require weeks of grinding and praying to the RNG gods before you can get to the part of the game that is supposed to be fun to play.

GW2 is trying to have it so there is content for everyone, but which content you like to play depending on skill level, time dedication, hardware specs, timezone, and personal preference ultimately leads to which rewards you have access to. By making one thing a “casual” part of the game, and another thing a “hardcore” part of the game, what Areanent is doing is just cutting off the casual players from some of the rewards of the game. The unfortunate part is that hardcore players often demand that casual players be cut off from their “special places”.

Now, this is not a unique problem. Thankfully, game designers figured out how to deal with this issue decades ago: It’s called a difficulty slider. It lets players have a customizable experience without detracting from the content or rewards of the game as a whole.

As for how GW2 could do this, it is quite simple: have two instances of all non-PVP areas of the game: a normal mode, and a hard mode. Normal mode would basically be the game we have now, with a few things made easier. Hard mode would be… harder, but would give some paltry higher reward, like 10% increase on gold or item rarity or something. Enough to entice players, but not enough to make it overpowered.

That way, the game can really be designed to appeal to both categories, but without withholding rewards from one group.

problem with your solution is, anet doesnt want to split the playerbase up. And they have some good reasons not to. But yeah, going from this forum (which is only 1 source of feedback) it may be possible that they will have to start doing this type of thing. Perhaps all they have to do is message harder content better, so that people know that if they dont consider them selves liking difficult, they may not like X content.

phys.7689:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Manijin.3428:

Do you remember the first time you beat a video game, only to discover that you’d missed a whole bunch of side quests or bonus content? Did it cheapen the experience for you?

The problem is, the answer to this question is yes. And this is one of the biggest problem with casual vs. hardcore content.

First, I have to say this: difficult does not mean hardcore. What differentiates a casual gamer from a hardcore gamer is time investment. There are games out there that require literally days of grinding to get the necessary stats or items to even attempt content, and then it is really easy. There are games that are difficult, but you can just pick up and play quickly. The confusion comes from hardcore players having more practice, which leads to them generally being better at the game.

Now, with that misconception out of the way… there has always been a very big issue with gated content, whether it be skill based, gear based, or time based: inequality in rewards. Reward not just being shiny trinkets or new gear, but also story based or fun based rewards. Yes, that is right: the reward can be where you have fun with the game. I’ve seen it a lot in older MMOs, that require weeks of grinding and praying to the RNG gods before you can get to the part of the game that is supposed to be fun to play.

GW2 is trying to have it so there is content for everyone, but which content you like to play depending on skill level, time dedication, hardware specs, timezone, and personal preference ultimately leads to which rewards you have access to. By making one thing a “casual” part of the game, and another thing a “hardcore” part of the game, what Areanent is doing is just cutting off the casual players from some of the rewards of the game. The unfortunate part is that hardcore players often demand that casual players be cut off from their “special places”.

Now, this is not a unique problem. Thankfully, game designers figured out how to deal with this issue decades ago: It’s called a difficulty slider. It lets players have a customizable experience without detracting from the content or rewards of the game as a whole.

As for how GW2 could do this, it is quite simple: have two instances of all non-PVP areas of the game: a normal mode, and a hard mode. Normal mode would basically be the game we have now, with a few things made easier. Hard mode would be… harder, but would give some paltry higher reward, like 10% increase on gold or item rarity or something. Enough to entice players, but not enough to make it overpowered.

That way, the game can really be designed to appeal to both categories, but without withholding rewards from one group.

problem with your solution is, anet doesnt want to split the playerbase up. And they have some good reasons not to. But yeah, going from this forum (which is only 1 source of feedback) it may be possible that they will have to start doing this type of thing. Perhaps all they have to do is message harder content better, so that people know that if they dont consider them selves liking difficult, they may not like X content.

If they are making hardcore content, then they are already dividing up the playerbase.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

phys.7689:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Manijin.3428:

Do you remember the first time you beat a video game, only to discover that you’d missed a whole bunch of side quests or bonus content? Did it cheapen the experience for you?

The problem is, the answer to this question is yes. And this is one of the biggest problem with casual vs. hardcore content.

First, I have to say this: difficult does not mean hardcore. What differentiates a casual gamer from a hardcore gamer is time investment. There are games out there that require literally days of grinding to get the necessary stats or items to even attempt content, and then it is really easy. There are games that are difficult, but you can just pick up and play quickly. The confusion comes from hardcore players having more practice, which leads to them generally being better at the game.

Now, with that misconception out of the way… there has always been a very big issue with gated content, whether it be skill based, gear based, or time based: inequality in rewards. Reward not just being shiny trinkets or new gear, but also story based or fun based rewards. Yes, that is right: the reward can be where you have fun with the game. I’ve seen it a lot in older MMOs, that require weeks of grinding and praying to the RNG gods before you can get to the part of the game that is supposed to be fun to play.

GW2 is trying to have it so there is content for everyone, but which content you like to play depending on skill level, time dedication, hardware specs, timezone, and personal preference ultimately leads to which rewards you have access to. By making one thing a “casual” part of the game, and another thing a “hardcore” part of the game, what Areanent is doing is just cutting off the casual players from some of the rewards of the game. The unfortunate part is that hardcore players often demand that casual players be cut off from their “special places”.

Now, this is not a unique problem. Thankfully, game designers figured out how to deal with this issue decades ago: It’s called a difficulty slider. It lets players have a customizable experience without detracting from the content or rewards of the game as a whole.

As for how GW2 could do this, it is quite simple: have two instances of all non-PVP areas of the game: a normal mode, and a hard mode. Normal mode would basically be the game we have now, with a few things made easier. Hard mode would be… harder, but would give some paltry higher reward, like 10% increase on gold or item rarity or something. Enough to entice players, but not enough to make it overpowered.

That way, the game can really be designed to appeal to both categories, but without withholding rewards from one group.

problem with your solution is, anet doesnt want to split the playerbase up. And they have some good reasons not to. But yeah, going from this forum (which is only 1 source of feedback) it may be possible that they will have to start doing this type of thing. Perhaps all they have to do is message harder content better, so that people know that if they dont consider them selves liking difficult, they may not like X content.

If they are making hardcore content, then they are already dividing up the playerbase.

They player base is already divided in those who want hard content and those that want easy. honestly only thing that really falls under hard content is Wurm which is such a small part of the content I don’t see how people are complaining. The idea you cant stack to kill something is so dreadful to some that. People who do easy complain that there is content they cant complete. Where people who like hard content and don’t care how many times they fail for the prestige of completion argue just get better. Anet through catering to both is getting flack from both sides instead of support from both.

If 99% of the game is easy why cant 1% be hard/impossible to complete?

You cant solo a dragon +> well maybe you weren’t meant to…

Let the epic battle keep rolling. Be great if we got to pilot air ships against a dragon champion as one of the phases.

Everyone just needs to realize that content u want isn’t content everyone wants but Anet through its releases have been trying to give something to everyone.

Hard content does not necessarily mean “you must have <X> numbers of players, or do not pass GO” though. I believe it’s possible for ANet to make tough, challenging content that’s just as accessible for a group of 10 as it is for a group of 100. (Or if an encounter does need a minimum number of players for a reason, then make it so that one or a handful of players can get the ball rolling so other players can see the event is up, and join in to help. They already have the architecture to do it with their dynamic scaling; it just needs encounters to be designed to take this into account.

Remember Vizunah Square from Factions? That was an example of mass content done well, IMO. It was much more fun seeing other players on the other team and combining your forces to take down Shiro’s Afflicted, but if you were playing at some odd hour in the dead of night and nobody else was around, you still got computer-controlled henchmen that could do the job.

Both playstyles are supported = all players are happy. This is what ANet should strive for, not inadvertently dividing the player base by creating different content that’s designed for “casuals” and “hardcores”.