Guild Wars 2

While I agree with you this is what happens when your personal success is tied to the ability of others, especially when these other people appear to you as a large faceless crowd.

This is madness. I smell a plot.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I have really noticed a poor trend in calling everyone who does not instinctively know how to do everything in the game, derogatory names. Not everyone is level 80. Not eveyrone has played 3,000 hours of this game. English is not everyone’s first language. I am sure there are many, many, many peolple who are intelligent and experienced with MMORPGs that can have a tough time figuring out what to do for these events, due to those reasons, if not many more reasons.

Please refrain from calling people names and being insulting simply because their level of play does not meet your elite expectations at every single moment. By doing so, you give the game in general a bad vibe and are probably, unnecessarily and incorrectly, turning off new players all together.

What are you implying?
You’re kind of doing the same thing now.

It is not the “elite” players’ fault if there are events open to everyone that require previous knowledge of what is going to happen, certain degrees/types of equipment, high levels even if the map itself is a low-level one and that can be failed due to a small amount of inexperienced or not well prepared players.
Blame the design of the events – the issues are all there.

This is what happens when you make content that relies on large amount of randoms to do it. Lowbies ruin it for everyone else. Think I’m joking? I’m not. Only takes one lowbie to make a group fail. The effect is the entire map then fails.

Anet, PLEASE make more content like Queens Jubliee (solo-able) so I don’t have to rely on lowbies to ruin my experience in game. Thanks.

MassDelusion.9130:

What are you implying?
You’re kind of doing the same thing now.

Maybe ozmaniandevil is referring to some of the comments on these forum threads. For instance, there’s a lot of rage being directed towards players who haven’t figured out how to do some of these new events, and they are carrying a lot of the blame for the failures.

Manuhell.2759:

It is not the “elite” players’ fault if there are events open to everyone that require previous knowledge of what is going to happen, certain degrees/types of equipment, high levels even if the map itself is a low-level one and that can be failed due to a small amount of inexperienced or not well prepared players.
Blame the design of the events – the issues are all there.

This.

The way this content was designed was with a particular play style and level of skill in mind, for both the Marionette and the Wurms. The reason peoplea re getting irritated and insulting players is because they’re getting fed up with loosing because of a few bad eggs who think it’s perfectly okay to come into content like this sub level 80, with no idea how to play their profession, with a mix match of affix gear and sub optimal quality (Blues and Greens), and jump right into the fights having no idea what’s going on, and likely ruining up what little coordination there is.

This content was not designed with casual players in mind, period. Both encounters require a good deal of coordination, skill, and gear to complete, and when you have people coming into this content with none of those traits, it does in fact ruin it for the others.

I’m sorry, but one persons personal enjoyment does not outweigh everyone elses. If you don’t know how the fights work, don’t jump into them blindly. Read up on the encounters, wait until you’re level 80 or have gear that’s appropriate for your Profession and Play Style, and make sure you know how to dodge.

One person can ruin an entire marionette run if they don’t know what they’re doing, it’s as simple as that.

I’m not calling anyone “leet”. I’m simply saying that players can’t and should not expect every player to be at an elite level for every piece of content. This is a game. It’s played by those new and not new, good and not so good, experienced and unexperienced.

What I’m saying is that there is no reason for some of the entirely INSULTING comments I’ve seen. I won’t give specific examples here. Just read, say 3 random threads regarding this content/LS and you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about.

Misty Red Rose.9320:

MassDelusion.9130:

What are you implying?
You’re kind of doing the same thing now.

Maybe ozmaniandevil is referring to some of the comments on these forum threads. For instance, there’s a lot of rage being directed towards players who haven’t figured out how to do some of these new events, and they are carrying a lot of the blame for the failures.

Misty gets it. It’s not the “fault of the lowbies”. Part of being commander and having large groups of random people is to learn HELP others, not insult them. I don’t think any of the LS content should be ONLY for level 80s. How does that help new players feel included? Just because someone bought the game 2 weeks ago doesn’t mean they should automatically be excluded from, nor INSULTED for trying, the content they paid for.

If content is meant for a specific level, it should be instanced, like dungeons, maybe. If it’s open world, it’s OPEN for everyone.

I’m just sad and tired of seeing all these negative, harsh, unwarranted comments.

Yeah people can die due to missing a dodge, getting hit by a red circle or something. However, I think everyone should take a bit of self-responsibility and at least read up on the new events on dulfy or reddit or on the forums here to familiarize themselves with what to do because other people are depending upon you to succeed (obviously this isn’t the case the first day when no info is available but it’s already been quite a while). I also think people should be responsible and use DPS specs instead of play how you want builds. I also think not bringing level 80’s with at least exotic gear is irresponsible unless you don’t have a level 80 yet. In short, while people might not be good at dodging or rotations or whatever they should at least have the responsibility to do basic preparation before the fight.

I don’t think name calling gets anyone anywhere. But I think that some criticisms towards people that are responsible for failing the world event are justified.

Blade Syphon.4325:

I’m sorry, but one persons personal enjoyment does not outweigh everyone elses

Hmmmm… so does YOUR personal enjoyment (ensuring everyone meets YOUR requirements) outweigh the personal enjoyment of the new player who wants to try the new content because they think it might be fun to feel like a part of the big open world they paid to use just as much as you did? You are implying that more experienced players deserve more enjoyment, are you not?

The insults are warranted so they know they are messing up everyone else’s enjoyment thinking that inexperience is an excuse to just waltz in an event thinking they can leech off the loot. Plain and simple.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Blade Syphon.4325:

I’m sorry, but one persons personal enjoyment does not outweigh everyone elses

Hmmmm… so does YOUR personal enjoyment (ensuring everyone meets YOUR requirements) outweigh the personal enjoyment of the new player who wants to try the new content because they think it might be fun to feel like a part of the big open world they paid to use just as much as you did? You are implying that more experienced players deserve more enjoyment, are you not?

I left my computer on in Lornar’s Pass on Deso main when I went to bed last night to see what would happen. I got the reward chest for completing the entire event without doing anything and going AFK. That brought me a HUGE amount of enjoyment getting free loot. Since the other people’s enjoyment don’t outweigh mine, people shouldn’t be criticizing me for going AFK and getting free loot, right?

Nolimitz.9467:

The insults are warranted so they know they are messing up everyone else’s enjoyment thinking that inexperience is an excuse to just waltz in an event thinking they can leech off the loot. Plain and simple.

No they are not.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Blade Syphon.4325:

I’m sorry, but one persons personal enjoyment does not outweigh everyone elses

Hmmmm… so does YOUR personal enjoyment (ensuring everyone meets YOUR requirements) outweigh the personal enjoyment of the new player who wants to try the new content because they think it might be fun to feel like a part of the big open world they paid to use just as much as you did? You are implying that more experienced players deserve more enjoyment, are you not?

Implicit attacking of someone’s character is fun.

No one is arguing that anyone can’t have any personal fun, but this is a MMO, a massively multiplayer online game. It literally means you aren’t the only one playing this game, that you influence the enjoyment of others with your actions for the good and the bad.

It would be one thing if the content were in a competitive environment like WvW, but instead it is PvE content requiring the cooperation of many individuals to gain a greater reward than one’s own self can gain normally. If said selfish players do not want to listen to feedback by their server comrades on how to do a certain mechanic correctly and act of their own accord, thereby ruining the experience of everyone who is actually trying to do the encounter together…

Then it is the outlier that’s the issue. You SHARE enjoyment in an MMO, you don’t take it all for yourself. Otherwise you are toxic to the MMO environment.

Note: This only applies in instances where said selfish player is going above and beyond to ensure he enjoys himself far more than everyone else, to the scope of practically making content impossible for everyone due to his actions. EVEN after repeat attempts to tell him/her what they can do to be helpful rather than hurtful.

It does NOT apply if it is meaningless badgering, or insults for the sake of insulting. Toxicity goes both ways.

Pretty sure we have had this discussion before, and the consensus was that the sake of the many did in fact outweigh the few in practically every case. (Think it was a talk about Dungeons, Berserker vs. Tanky runs, etc.)

So you are saying that unless you meet “x” specifications you should not participate in any PvE content. Do I have that correct? Who decides what the specifications are? And then it’s ok to insult players who just happen to want to play the game? Sure am glad I am learning such new things here.

I get WHY people insult others for failing on an event but I do not agree with insulting others for failing on a event. Seems to make more sense to work with players after a fail rather than try to one up Map Chat by ripping them a new one.

Insults and put downs don’t appeal to me in RL therefore they don’t appeal to me in a game. All I know is, lashing out over a game is silly business to me. Games used to be about having fun and for me that is still true. I do the min/max route and learn the mechanics of a fight because that IS how I have fun. Some players idea of fun is to grief and troll others. While other players idea of fun is to log in to a virtual environment to escape their personal troubles in the world while relaxing.

Having fun to me does not include trolling other players or insulting them. Regardless, name calling and insults are not going anywhere. Best to realize that and take it into your own hands as a player if it really bothers you.

Manuhell.2759:

It is not the “elite” players’ fault if there are events open to everyone that require previous knowledge of what is going to happen, certain degrees/types of equipment, high levels even if the map itself is a low-level one and that can be failed due to a small amount of inexperienced or not well prepared players.
Blame the design of the events – the issues are all there.

So it is ArenaNets fault that people behave like children when stuff doesn’t go the way they want?

I get a bit annoyed as well when we fail, but for some reason I have never attacked anyone about it, but I suppose I might be an unique snowflake.

Are u referring to a statement like the following: “Those nublets need to get on my level”

If yes then I think people should refrain from using such a statement.

Nodo I agree totally that in actual map/say chat you should report anyone who is specifically calling names or being rude. What I’m trying to discuss in particular in this thread is the toxicity of the forums, especially in regard to the new LS events. So many places I see absolute insults to others. How about taking some responsibility for your own/your group’s failures? If someone does not know what to do, help them to learn it. Don’t try to pass the failures off to “idiot”, or “lowbie” players “who don’t belong”. ANet designed these events for the community to come together to learn how to beat it, not lay insults and blame on each other for failures.

There will always be griefers and haters. Best to ignore and move on. People won’t get anything out of it by confronting these people.

The best way to deal with it is to simply report them for Verbal abuse.
Hopefully that will mean we will get rid of them, at least temporarily.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Nodo I agree totally that in actual map/say chat you should report anyone who is specifically calling names or being rude. What I’m trying to discuss in particular in this thread is the toxicity of the forums, especially in regard to the new LS events. So many places I see absolute insults to others. How about taking some responsibility for your own/your group’s failures? If someone does not know what to do, help them to learn it. Don’t try to pass the failures off to “idiot”, or “lowbie” players “who don’t belong”. ANet designed these events for the community to come together to learn how to beat it, not lay insults and blame on each other for failures.

Agreed, I have a few level 80s but do not believe others should be excluded because they do not have a fully equipped character at max level. On the flip side, this LS story is sort of community driven and requires other players to pay a little more attention than they are used too. That is why I mentioned in my last post as to the WHY people throw out insults. This happens in a lot of games too, not just GW2 of course.

On the contrary, I just don’t understand the justification and reasoning behind doing so when it doesn’t benefit anyone. The benefit to everyone here is to help each other achieve what we all want, understanding mechanics and downing these events.

Sure, let ANet know your opinions and concerns about the content they release but taking it out on the community seems to be a step backwards. Maybe I am gullible, but I do believe devs read these forums more than a lot of games devs and I appreciate their efforts in making GW2 better in the future.

This is only my 2 cents.

when my wife and I first had children, the people who were first to tell us everything we were doing wrong as parents were those people who had no children of their own. Similar mindset, when I see people name calling I think. hmmm, are they QQ or insulting others because they are lacking in the experience department? Are they just looking to place their own faults on others to pacify themselves?
Name calling, insulting others is childish behavior at its finest. For those who can’t see that, there is a reason why.

I understand why people get upset, and agree with many of the comments on this thread about people doing their homework. But really? name calling and insulting benefits others? For those who believe that, thank you for my daily chuckle.

Blade Syphon.4325:

Manuhell.2759:

It is not the “elite” players’ fault if there are events open to everyone that require previous knowledge of what is going to happen, certain degrees/types of equipment, high levels even if the map itself is a low-level one and that can be failed due to a small amount of inexperienced or not well prepared players.
Blame the design of the events – the issues are all there.

This.

The way this content was designed was with a particular play style and level of skill in mind, for both the Marionette and the Wurms. The reason peoplea re getting irritated and insulting players is because they’re getting fed up with loosing because of a few bad eggs who think it’s perfectly okay to come into content like this sub level 80, with no idea how to play their profession, with a mix match of affix gear and sub optimal quality (Blues and Greens), and jump right into the fights having no idea what’s going on, and likely ruining up what little coordination there is.

One person will not cause the event to fail. I’m sorry but that’s just bull.

[quite]This content was not designed with casual players in mind, period. Both encounters require a good deal of coordination, skill, and gear to complete, and when you have people coming into this content with none of those traits, it does in fact ruin it for the others.[/quote]

I’m sorry but that’s just bull. I class my self as a casual player, and to say I have no place doing this content is just crazy. I payed for the game, like you did. I but from the gem store every few weeks-month as you probably do also. So I don’t see how you have any more “right” to do this content over me, or anyone else for that matter.

I’m sorry, but one persons personal enjoyment does not outweigh everyone elses. If you don’t know how the fights work, don’t jump into them blindly. Read up on the encounters, wait until you’re level 80 or have gear that’s appropriate for your Profession and Play Style, and make sure you know how to dodge.

That’s right one persons personal enjoyment does not outweigh everyone else’s. But yet you seem to think you can tell people what content they can and can not play. And how to play. What level they should be. Surly this go’s against what you just said?

One person can ruin an entire marionette run if they don’t know what they’re doing, it’s as simple as that.

No. Just no. One person can not do that.

the thing is this is not even hard content thus the insults from myself and many others who think people should actually take the time to get better at the game and stop messing it up for others! No amount of advice through chat can help the person behind a keyboard to play better. If they suck they suck let the insults FLY

That’s my 2 cents.

lordkrall.7241:

So it is ArenaNets fault that people behave like children when stuff doesn’t go the way they want?

If by “behave like children” you mean “pointing out who made a map full of people waste hours for no rewards”, then yes. It is just a matter of taking responsability.

They are the ones who made those events to begin with, after all. With all those waiting times, failure conditions/timers, boss mechanics, poor rewards for failures (albeit, the ones of the marionette aren’t so bad) and so on.

I get a bit annoyed as well when we fail, but for some reason I have never attacked anyone about it, but I suppose I might be an unique snowflake.

And neither i’ve done it – but i can perfectly understand why some people could be angry when it happens. This patch could have been named “The Origin of Coffee” – as one will drink so many of them to know anything about it – to stay awake during the waiting times. And failing gives near to no reward for events like the two new permanent bosses.

With the amount of time the event has been live and the amount of guides available that describe the encounter entirely. There really shouldn’t be anyone who doesn’t know what’s going on anymore.

Nolimitz.9467:

The insults are warranted so they know they are messing up everyone else’s enjoyment thinking that inexperience is an excuse to just waltz in an event thinking they can leech off the loot. Plain and simple.

It’s sad to hear you feel that way. I know when I command I take anyone that wants to try out the content, lvl 80 or lowbie. How else are they going to learn? If you have a good commander and a willing team you can win. Makes me sad when people exclude others simply because they don’t meet some stupid gear check…

Kumu Honua.2751:

With the amount of time the event has been live and the amount of guides available that describe the encounter entirely. There really shouldn’t be anyone who doesn’t know what’s going on anymore.

What about those who have not had any free time to log in? Or people who don’t even visit the forums or dulfy?

Not trolling, just stating that not everyone who plays this game can be on every day and every hour or cares to do homework prior to exploring the game. To think of it in this way seems unrealistic to me. Yes, there are guides and people can view them however there are some players who enjoy doing content before actually spoiling it by reading a “How To”. People play games and handle content differently. This game encourages it even if it seems punishing when events fail. You log in and the game tells you to go to this place…it is my opinion that your first time player should not be expected to read up on this encounter.

Afterwards, once they fail more than likely, they will to better understand what was going on. People say this all the time, before going into a dungeon, you should watch a video first. Personally, I will but not because I want to know the ins and outs of a dungeon before actually attempting it…I do it so people don’t get so kitten if I don’t stand exactly where I need to be or if I don’t skip a section in the manner that they do.

I’m not really disagreeing with you. Yes, it has been out for 50 hours now and there are guides already written but I’m pointing out that not every one has it like you or me where we can get on the game nightly or whenever we want. Some people learn through seeing it first then they understand what is being told to them in map chat or in these guides. There are a lot of factors behind an individual person…not always that they just suck

sad fact is sad fact do something about it and meet those standards stop messing it up for the people that actually meet those said thresholds that anet put up again no amount of polite map chat is going to make the noob/scrub actually run proper utilities even when it is said in map chat thus my only action is to maybe have a .1% chance at embarrassing them through digital chat and force them to actually think about what they run