Guild Wars 2

In one of the early reactions, Josh Foreman reacted that one of the goals of the event was to teach the community a new skil: ”self organization”. However in the way the whole event is set up is not really helping.

The Main “new skill” players on my server seem learning is guesting. I have never seen so many guesting as during this event. The reason for this is the new event, the achievements tied to it.

This is the story of our server, Fissure of Woe, who did not manage yet to beat the event yet (but we keep trying)

Many of our community do not have a lot of hours to play the game so it is hard to get larger multi-guild events going during the week. In the weekend we can get it done once a day, however you need a few rounds of the event to get used to it and manage to beat it. Since we do not know when the event will end (might be with the next release) we have only 2 days left to try and beat it in a large multi guild group.
Getting everyone together and on the same map costs time (overflows and such). Our main issue is that you then only get 1 attempt to try it and due to the way the event is set up, if only a few fail it is game over. Waiting 2 hours to try again is too long.

Events like Balthazar and Karka Queen are set up that they can be learned fast as you can retry straight after a failure. Like these events, Marionette also has a learning curve. However having 2 hour breaks between each attempts is a real problem here.

After a few days of failure while other servers begin to succeed, the next problem starts: guesting. Specially the achievement hunters get tired of not getting achievements even though they did what had to be done, but one of the other groups failed= no achievement. They give up and guest in the hope to get their achievements done. Main server is left without these players for the event (usually good players) so next times the event goes worse than it did the first 2 days. Morale goes down and more players think their server just can’t do it and start to guest. This goes on till you are left with a main server were you can just get on the main map during the 5 min countdown of the event start, at 10 pm on weekdays. (this was the case for FoW on friday evening).

To sum it up:
If the event has a learning curve like marionette has, give us the ability to retry it straight away so we can learn it as long as you see progress most will stay with it and keep trying. If the event is then learned and beaten it will also keep the community together instead of falling apart due to all the guesting (after it is beaten, 2 hour respawn timer can start, or just give rewards for the event once a day)

Note Tri-Wurm and TEQ have a similar problem however since it is permanent content it has a much smaller effect.

I hope these issues can be taken into account for further LS updates so we can keep the server community together and get events done.

Vin Lady Venture -Leader of RiFa on FoW

The wurm is for hard core players Anet made clear of that(I guess theres no argument in this). Marrionet is a great update and they’re teaching players to be organize. The problem is people doing the event not the server. Killing champs in the ring is not a server problem but the players trying to do it that couldnt even dodge attacks. They guest because they want someone capable of leading them that they cant find in their servers. And imo reward after failed attempt is good enough. Don’t forget people had requested this that they want an event that will actually fail if they dont do something…

Vin has a point here. Personally I love the Marionette fight, and so do a great many of the YORK members, but Fissure of Woe runs into the repeating problem of bad morale and negativity. The wait time tends to foster more of these unfortunate occurrences, but then I can’t really see it having a reduced spawn time without somehow making it an Instanced Event.

The Commanders in Fissure of Woe do try hard to make sure all participating players know the mechanics of each Warden groups but it’s also unfortunate that in many cases (Wardens I & II for sure) one single player who doesn’t read the Champ description can ruin the entire event for a map full of players. All that can be done is to try get as many players as possible to read up on the event, or at least listen to the advice in the Map Chat.

On a brighter note, Fissure of Woe successfully completed the Marionette kill on Sunday at 20:00 GMT for the first time and I was incredibly proud of all those who turned up and fought alongside us

Jarl Rossco, of the Knights of the White Rose [YORK] – Fissure of Woe

Then there is the issue of getting time to read.

Port in and you are dropped in the middle of a compact arena with 4 other people and a champion milling about doing something, while the big bad in the background is dropping AOEs ever so often.

Yeah, lets try to read that text while trying to figure out where it is safe to stand, where the champ walked off to, and what animation it is winding up.

Never mind that thanks to the camera, if i back off far enough all i see is the backside of my character.

If i had either permanent mouse aim or a camera that allowed me a proper overview of the fight i would try to read.

Information overload is a concept that i think ANet should take a long hard look at.

Actually this event has served to only strengthen the community of my server. We’ve had more people in our ts than ever before and a primarily positive review altogether. Sorry to hear it’s not working that way for others.

It’s not like Anet could remove guesting just for the raid boss.

But I think the OP is right. Open world boss isn’t new. It actually works pretty well in other mmorpg because “you can’t guest”. People would actually come together server wise to kill world boss.

But with guesting, people’ll just guest to the “better” server.

Syryn.7591:

Actually this event has served to only strengthen the community of my server. We’ve had more people in our ts than ever before and a primarily positive review altogether. Sorry to hear it’s not working that way for others.

I don’t think that’s what the OP literally means

He means the “guesting function” breaks the server community. This world raid boss would work better if people can’t guest.

But Anet can’t just take out the guesting function for the raid boss.

Well in my opinion removing guest option will end up forcing players only to buy gems and transfer to the best server available. Sorry to dissappoint you.

I didn’t say anything about removing guesting.

I’m just saying open world boss is in other game. They works much better than that in GW2 because GW2 have a guesting function.

I didn’t say any remove guesting is a good idea.

Ok, must have misunderstood. Sorry

I am on the Fissure of Woe server and I would like to make a few comments:

1. We have beat it at least twice (I have done it twice, both times 8pm main map – not overflow)
2. I have found it great for the community. I have tried it about 15 times, for 2 victories, and many of the same players were there each time – discussing tactics and commanders ensuring lanes are balanced out. Myself and my guild mates have all felt it gave us a good sense of being part of the FoW community.
3. On Fow the main map fills up quickly. On 4 separate occasions this weekend I logged on 15ins before the start and went into an overflow (on at least 2 occasions there were multiple overflows)

Here on Aurora Glade we’ve managed to defeat the marionette multiple times now, but I feel like Fissure of Woe really isn’t doing anything different from what we’re doing… I think you’re just unlucky to have bad players.

We’ve got a couple of excellent commanders, but sometimes even with the best commanding in the world, a lane will fail. Sometimes it’s simply out of your hands. And like the OP said, people are properly instructed before the battle, but will still wipe at some of the wardens. That’s because some of the wardens hit like a truck.

One thing you could try, is having dedicated tanks in some of the lanes. Bring guardians with lots of support for some of the harder wardens, so they can keep the weaker players up. It’s no magic answer to success, but it’s worth a try.

When we best it yesterday, we had guilds focus on 2 of the lanes to ensure we progressed forward (you can cope with a couple of fails). In the end it wasn’t necessary as every lane won I dont think it was a coincidence that on FoW the main map (where people choose to arrive in plenty of time and make sure they know what to do) do better than overflows (random last minute players)

I dont think the problem is the event, the problem is that too many people want everything handed to then… too many lazy players.

I have found the community spirit inside the home instance of the zone to be quite good (was there for 3 of the events today, overflow for the rest). I think it’s mainly because there are some people that are effectively living in the zone and chatting away while they want the 1.5 hours to the next event.

In the overflow servers though… not so good. Lots of whinging, complaining, picking on other players etc.

Ah good to hear we got it down on sunday (unfortunately we all got stuck in an overflow at that time due to running guild missions before it. To be clear i’m not proposing to remove guest feature, just pointing out that it can cause some problems. The event is good in it self, it only has a learning curve that most of the players need to go through and understand for the event to work out (given the 5 separate champs that need to be defeated to break a chain, 1 group fails, well you get the point) Therefore it is important that as many as possible join the event a couple of times.

I agree that you can read up all you want but for many the first time you acually face a champ you do have to get used to them and see how it works. some do that really fast and can still complete the event in 2 min, while others fail. In our example my guild got the 3rd chain champ on both saturday and sunday. on saturday many saw it for the first time and we failed with 3 out of 5 broken. The next day we got it again and we completed it. (however then many had still to get used to phase 4 champs which failed 3 times in a row in other lanes). in the end we will get there (and also did it) but it takes a lot of time and i have seen many that just guest away due to it taking to long/ concerns they will not manage to get all their achievements in time.

So having the opertunity to do a short ‘pre’ event and then try the boss again immediately after a fail, much like karka queen/baltazar would help speed up the learning process. (does not need to be unlimited but 1 or 2 more attempts after a large organization would be really help full.

As i said Wurm and Teq are hard end PERMANET content so for that the current system is ok…

Event though i think it would encourage more servers/groups to try and organize these large events if there is a bit more margin for a failure and have up to 2 extra tries to beat the event before 2 H re-spawn timer kicks in.

To reward those that manage it in one go, nothing should change for the 1st encounter. If this is however failed, there would spawn a “retry event” (taking 5-10 min.) that needs to be completed before you can try again, however if you beat it on the retry everyone only gets 50% of the normal rewards. if you fail, again a retry event and a 3rd attempt for 25% of the normal reward. if this fails, its over and you have to wait for the next time it spawns.

doing it perfect is more rewarding and less time needed, but having the retries in you can potentially learn the event 3 times faster that we can right now.

again for Puppet fast learning is key as its temporary, for the hard end bosses if would be nice to have and i think get more players willing to try them, but not required.

I believe the problem is that Anet has spoiled players with bad boss fights which only require them to stand in one place, auto attack and occasionally dodge. Most dungeon bosses are this way and most open world bosses are this way. What do players do at maw? Stand and auto attack. What do players do at shat? Stand and auto attack. What do players do at karka? Stand and auto attack and maybe dodge when it stomps and rolls.

Now they introduce a fight that requires players to use more than one button and requires movement. Skills that most players failed to develop because of earlier game mechanics.

I do not know how many times I watched players fail to kite the spinning champion into mines. How many failed the 4th champ because they stood in aoe. The element of utilizing skills and tactics are devoid in most players due to the reasons I named. Its unfortunate, I don’t necessarily blame them. But the boss mechanics in game before this event.

Overall I feel marionette is a good start to solving the mindless stacking, standing still and auto attacking mentality.

First of all you don’t have two days, you have a week. This event last until Feb 4th.

Second this event has been very good for building community on most main servers. It sounds like you’ve got terrible luck with people on your server and I apologize for that. Guesting b/c they didn’t win and they’d rather go to a different server than keep trying for victory on their own? Talk about laziness and cowardice.

I don’t think the event itself needs a rework, I think the players on your server just need a swift kick in the kitten.

Tequatl, wurm, and marrionette has been a sharp "survival of the fittest". Only makes it clear which servers will get bombarded with guests and transfers.

Off-topic insert: wvw has been affecting our population too.
>-Match ups lead to Ehmry bay to get stomped.
>-WvW guilds decide enough is enough and 3 of 4 of our wvw guilds are moving out. (Over 400 active players are currently leaving Ehmry bay now)
>-All i can do is 1)leave too 2)hope new players choose my server 3)watch more players bandwagon leave to fort aspenwood, tarnished coast, sea of sorrows, or jade quarry.

Kalarchis.8635:

First of all you don’t have two days, you have a week. This event last until Feb 4th.

Second this event has been very good for building community on most main servers. It sounds like you’ve got terrible luck with people on your server and I apologize for that. Guesting b/c they didn’t win and they’d rather go to a different server than keep trying for victory on their own? Talk about laziness and cowardice.

I don’t think the event itself needs a rework, I think the players on your server just need a swift kick in the kitten.

Yeah because that would work…………. People who are fedup with failing a event that many call easy and guesting to try there luck elsewhere are hardly lazy or cowereds. Everyone has a limit. Once you reach that they try another way. If this event has a retry after 5-10 mins so people know where they are going wrong and retry then maybe it would be better on all servers not just FoW. I remember one attempt of Mario where if it wasn’t for one guild the battle would not have got past the first warden. If they had not moved players to reinforce lain 5 we would not have got past one chain. That guild knows who they are, and I’m thankful for there hard work.

What is the general population of your server? Because on Crystal Desert we may have an healthy PvE population, but we are far away from some other server (our Zerg in Frostgorges Sound is usually small and we don’t do Teq. But still we have enough ppl to fill the main server and an overflow for most marionette attempts (at least when i play) and we succeed most of the time (when we failed its almost never because of too few numbers).

On our server, the last update help a lot the community. A lot more people go on the Teamspeak, people organize at lot in the map chat before the event and more Commander tag up.

Thaddeus.4891:

What is the general population of your server? Because on Crystal Desert we may have an healthy PvE population, but we are far away from some other server (our Zerg in Frostgorges Sound is usually small and we don’t do Teq. But still we have enough ppl to fill the main server and an overflow for most marionette attempts (at least when i play) and we succeed most of the time (when we failed its almost never because of too few numbers).

On our server, the last update help a lot the community. A lot more people go on the Teamspeak, people organize at lot in the map chat before the event and more Commander tag up.

We burn down The Shatterer and Claw of Jormag no problem. But I’ve never done Teq on FoW when ever I’ve gone there it’s been a ghost town. With that said I’ve attempted teq 4 times and have a 50/50 win lose against him.