Guild Wars 2

This was noted in Wooden Potatoes’ video, but it bears repeating.

The second phase in the wurm fight is completely random. All the servers and guilds that killed it got lucky with the wurms getting stuck and not moving. That’s also why no server or guild has managed to consistently farm the encounter.

The issue: During the second phase, there’s no tell for when the wurm will move and where it will move. There doesn’t even seem to be a cooldown on its movement. The wurm sometimes moves so often that it’s impossible to land even one good melee burn during the two minutes provided to get a kill.

It makes no sense that the deciding mechanic in a supposedly skillful fight is the boss’s totally unpredictable movement.

Compared to the first phase and the coordination it requires, the second phase is disappointing.

The problem is is that the results can swing wildly. I’ve had some runs where the Wurm head keeps Chomping into a wall, and it dies with 30 seconds to spare. The very next run it can chain Chomp, gaining distance every time and outmaneuvering our raid, with out timer running out with the head at 30%.

Nokaru.7831:

The problem is is that the results can swing wildly. I’ve had some runs where the Wurm head keeps Chomping into a wall, and it dies with 30 seconds to spare. The very next run it can chain Chomp, gaining distance every time and outmaneuvering our raid, with out timer running out with the head at 30%.

Yup. This happens way too often.

Downing the boss comes down to smartly, skillfully navigating through the first phase until the stars finally align in the second phase to secure a win.

Honestly I’ve had a lot of fun working with TTS trying to down this wurm when we were working on phase 1 but phase 2 has been nothing but pure frustration and honestly the only reason I’m sticking with it is to finish what I started.

We’ve tested this on deso, and it is 100% sure that the wurm head randomly targets a member of the group and “literally” becomes his/her pet. So the tactic that comes to mind is to bundle up, however, this is not as easy as it sounds. It targets downed people as well and there is ALWAYS that one person that refuses to get on team speak and running aimlessly.

Taisia.2813:

We’ve tested this on deso, and it is 100% sure that the wurm head randomly targets a member of the group and “literally” becomes his/her pet. So the tactic that comes to mind is to bundle up, however, this is not as easy as it sounds. It targets downed people as well and there is ALWAYS that one person that refuses to get on team speak and running aimlessly.

Wait what!?!

Then does that mean…. hold on I need to do some tests.

Taisia.2813:

We’ve tested this on deso, and it is 100% sure that the wurm head randomly targets a member of the group and “literally” becomes his/her pet. So the tactic that comes to mind is to bundle up, however, this is not as easy as it sounds. It targets downed people as well and there is ALWAYS that one person that refuses to get on team speak and running aimlessly.

Are you completely certain or is it only a theory that sounds promising?

Yes, the head turns to a player and charges at them with Chomp. We had someone notice they had aggro and they managed to steer the head. It might be possible to lure it somewhere consistently and get it stuck on something like one of the Crimson extractors, but you might end up wasting a lot of time with re-positioning.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Taisia.2813:

We’ve tested this on deso, and it is 100% sure that the wurm head randomly targets a member of the group and “literally” becomes his/her pet. So the tactic that comes to mind is to bundle up, however, this is not as easy as it sounds. It targets downed people as well and there is ALWAYS that one person that refuses to get on team speak and running aimlessly.

Are you completely certain or is it only a theory that sounds promising?

We are pretty sure this is true from experience on Blackgate as well. The most telling evidence was the time we had Amber bug out and never came out of the ground – the underground wurm would target one player and follow him/her relentlessly. We couldn’t figure out the aggro variable (perhaps its a stat, perhaps it is random), but that wurm (which existed for over and hour before we all left the map) would pick someone and stick them like glue.

Pretty sure the same thing happens when it comes above-ground.

It may simply use classic mob behavior to determine who has aggro using factors including. According to the wiki 4 factors determine aggro.

1. closest target to them
2. who is dealing damage
3. top damage dealers
4. who is using a shield / has more toughness and overall armor
others

It may be possible to manipulate the wurm’s behavior by having one player stack far more toughness then the others and attempting to hold aggro (old Anchor Guardian builds used it). I’ve attempted it on world bosses before and it works (like on priest of grenth). Otherwise it could just be completely random.

I really wish I’d seen that post before the TTS wurm raids ended for me tonight.

So the same old opaque aggro is at work with phase 2 as it is with every other part of this game. Nice job there, ANet. How about giving mobs a target of target readout so we can tell who the heck it has picked as its chew toy?!

I’ll pay more attention to see if there’s a pattern. But I doubt it.

Just did an attempt in which we all stacked up on the wurm. It still moved in random directions.

The wurm died, but only because it got stuck on a hill toward the end.

The wurm doesn’t use the person he’s targetting to determine how far he charges, only in what direction he moves because the charge attack has a set range. It’s similar to when NPCs use a whirling charge attack.

If that’s the case, it might as well be random. The only way to really solve that problem is stand against the wall. But then the wurm is going to hit the raid multiple times, much like Fiery Greatsword No. 3.

It will be interesting to see people trying to glitch out the wurm in the next few days just to farm the fight. I doubt that’s what ArenaNet was going for, but it’s how people have to deal with such a terribly designed phase.

It shouldn’t be luck, if you’re trying to melee it you’re probably doing it wrong. Use Range, you don’t have to wait for it to stop moving, because obviously that may never happen.

you should really be doing both, although it depends on the class.

Warcry.1596:

It shouldn’t be luck, if you’re trying to melee it you’re probably doing it wrong. Use Range, you don’t have to wait for it to stop moving, because obviously that may never happen.

You cannot do enough DPS with only range to kill the wurm.

Besides, the wurm’s sporadic movement affects range as well because it moves further than 1200 range at times.

It shouldn’t be luck, but it is.

I find that very hard to believe. The way it is now, the wurm head has to be “vulnerable” for at least 45 seconds of the two minutes in order to down it in melee. The rest of the time he is unattackable in melee because of his movements and AoE. But in range, that full two minutes he is taking damage, consistently. 2 minutes of range can deal more damage than 45 seconds of melee.

Phase 2 is so frustrating!
On one hand, I have really enjoyed the time spent on this world boss for the organization and coordination needed for phase 1 and the mechanism put in place: well done DEV team.
Nevertheless, I don’t see the purpose of phase 2? Maybe we did not find the correct trick but it seems to be only DPS and luck…I would have preferred something like phase one in more complex.

nico.1240:

Phase 2 is so frustrating!
On one hand, I have really enjoyed the time spent on this world boss for the organization and coordination needed for phase 1 and the mechanism put in place: well done DEV team.
Nevertheless, I don’t see the purpose of phase 2? Maybe we did not find the correct trick but it seems to be only DPS and luck…I would have preferred something like phase one in more complex.

Phase 2 is “pray that all three heads get stuck on something within the first forty seconds. Oh, and then DPS them.” It desperately needs some attention. Right now, there’s pretty much nothing anyone can do to influence where the wurms are going to move, and that’s the primary reason why there have only been four kills of this thing. Also, bear in mind that a 10% PvE direct damage reduction is coming in a few months, which is only going to make this phase that much more frustrating.

Phase 1 is beautiful – it requires teamwork and coordination, and it’s fun. Phase 2 is none of these things. It’s frustrating for all the wrong reasons.

Nope, the head tries follows a pattern (getting to one of several potential resting positions). Players have to stay away from it when it runs. If too many players are to close to it when the head wants to rest, it will skip a resting phase.

It’s not luck based. You are just not playing to the mechanics. The slime behind the head, tells you to stay away from it when it runs and not to chase it. Just do what the games tries to teach you and you will be fine and get the kill.

Not saying that there are no issues and glitches with phase 2 (there are several), but it has nothing to do with luck.

WilliamDaBloody.2591:

Nope, the head tries follows a pattern (getting to one of several potential resting positions). Players have to stay away from it when it runs.

This is quite false. I’ve seen enough of phase 2 to see that the head does not follow any confirmed pattern of movement (through position or distance).

WilliamDaBloody.2591:

It’s not luck based. You are just not playing to the mechanics. The slime behind the head, tells you to stay away from it when it runs and not to chase it. Just do what the games tries to teach you and you will be fine and get the kill.

As for playing to the mechanics of the fight, you are mostly correct. The wurm head has several mechanical tells to indicate the flow of the phase. We are still testing and analyzing to determine if there are any mechanics that we may have missed (this goes for both phase 1 and phase 2).

Pexx.6327:

This is quite false. I’ve seen enough of phase 2 to see that the head does not follow any confirmed pattern of movement (through position or distance).

That’s because too many players were where it wants to go or where chasing it. That’s what makes it look more random than they are.

But I fully agree that there are some issues with the head. But these issues do not mean its movement is fully random.

The problem are that Anet internally seem to use how fear works based on players close to the wurm and that does not work really well and is causing some glitches.

With the fix to the initial invulnerability, it’s much more doable. But it’s still largely luck. The wurm just moves way too much.

And even though the wurm does seem to focus one person before it darts off, that’s still largely RNG because one PUG can randomly ruin the encounter for everyone.

It’s luck because the groups doing it are going entirely for melee burns with fiery greatsword rushing. The strategy MAKES it RNG. You can complain all you want that ranged damage is weak, but when you only have 50% melee uptime… figure it out.

It’s obvious that the fight is build around ranged damage while chasing the Wurm, THEN melee burns when he stacks up. There’s nothing wrong with burning when it stops, but there should be damage going out while you’re chasing… not 100% downtime until melee catch up. Go ahead and survey your groups and see how many of them aren’t even using ranged weapons, making them completely useless for half the fight unless you get “lucky” and it gets stuck in a wall.

Crying RNG is an excuse for the inability to adapt. Stop bumping your thread with the incessant whining, you do enough of it in mapchat.

WilliamDaBloody.2591:

But I fully agree that there are some issues with the head. But these issues do not mean its movement is fully random.

The Wurm is a creature, and like any creature is has an aggro table. It Chomps in the direction of its primary aggro.

That’s it.

The recent patch seems to have increased the recharge of Chomp, making its behavior way more consistent.

@Celeras

It’s luck because the groups doing it are going entirely for melee burns with fiery greatsword rushing. The strategy MAKES it RNG. You can complain all you want that ranged damage is weak, but when you only have 50% melee uptime… figure it out.

For most classes it takes 10 seconds to weapon switch. That is FAR too long. Also consider that all the gapclosers to catchup with the wurm (Warrior GS 3+5, Thief DD etc) are on melee weapons. Yes, switching out to ranged might be fine for an extra 5 seconds of DPS while you catchup, but where does that put you when you DO catchup and you are still stuck for 5seconds in a ranged weapon.
I do somewhat agree though. Most classes should be keeping %100 dps uptime with weapon switching when they can but it is not as easy as you make it sound. I encourage my groups to melee when they can, range when they cant already. But some take that as “range it all the time”.

Celeras.4980:

It’s obvious that the fight is build around ranged damage while chasing the Wurm, THEN melee burns when he stacks up. There’s nothing wrong with burning when it stops, but there should be damage going out while you’re chasing… not 100% downtime until melee catch up. Go ahead and survey your groups and see how many of them aren’t even using ranged weapons, making them completely useless for half the fight unless you get “lucky” and it gets stuck in a wall."

The other problem with this is that the wurm actually charges OUT of most 1200 range weapons’ range. If you swap to a ranged weapon, you might only get 2 hits in before you start getting ‘Out of Range’ markers. Everything the fight has showed me so far has told me that its NOT promoting ranging the wurm. Its promoting catching up with it at high-speed and continuing the melee burn.

Celeras.4980:

Crying RNG is an excuse for the inability to adapt. Stop bumping your thread with the incessant whining, you do enough of it in mapchat.

Wurm Phase 2 is completely RNG whether you think its players whining or not. Even considering the fact that the Wurms does aggro to one player, the very nature of a player is RNG in such a way that you can’t completely control %100 of your group to do exactly as you need them to do. The human brain is an RNG machine. My point being that its kind of hard to get players to adapt in the first place. The problem with Deso’s first kill is that because we did it and because videos went out, now EVERYBODY thinks thats pretty much the way to do it and it might not be the most efficient way. In fact i can guarantee it isnt. But it will be hard as nails to get players to change their minds.

Personally, I think there is a way to influence phase 2’s flow. But that’s just it. It’ll only be influenced. We won’t be able to actually control the flow of that fight. But that’s fine. Now it’s just about strategy refinement and getting everyone under my charge to listen and follow directions. Since we figured out the trick to phase 1, all it is now is to refine phase 2.