Guild Wars 2

We do have some semi-serious WvW guilds on the server I mean no disrespect to them with my post. For example LOM opened up and encouraged open use of the TS3 and SoH is who started running the server training. (If only more people would show up.) And obviously for where we are ranked we don’t need to be super-serious about WvW all the time. That’s fine because I think a lot of people would find that less fun.

There just seems to be a disproportionately large number of egos among our WvWers as a whole in relation to the quality of our WvW skill. This causes a great deal of inertia in any sort of change because they think they’re the kitten. You’ve seen how closed minded some (but not all please do not mistake these kids as representative of CD generally) of CD is to actually improving, as demonstrated by some of the delusional chest-thumping on this thread. But that may be the price you pay for being in a mid-tier server which is stuck between people who want to WvW and people who want to pretend that WvW is sPvP.

I have to say that hearing the self-righteous posts from a few commanders who barely command and who abandoned us for months only to scream righteous indignation when they found out people left makes me chuckle.

I do think we in CD (for the sake of CD) could afford to take a look at where we can improve instead of QQing about it. From the private frustrations I’ve heard from fellow CDers I think my outline is fairly accurate and I know I’m not the only one who would like for us to do some actual reflection instead of… whatever THIS is on the forums.

I also wanted to let the other servers know that we’re not all delusional children.

And Hickeroar, mind you, you stole two of our serious WvW guilds. I knew they were sharp here but now that I get to feel it on the other side of their blades…I feel a little proud for some reason. They may be on the Coast but they were raised in the Desert, sir!

Zaulhghev.5308:

Except for rare occasions 40 of us are consistently melting under their organized 20. You know why TC is destroying us when we meet them on the field?

Because they care about what armor and runes they are wearing. We do not. Why is berserker gear in WvW the norm? When did this become a good idea. Especially given how easy it is to pick up a second set now with the WvW exotic armor vendor. Your CoF grinding gear and trait build makes you a free rally.

Fwiw, SoR told us the exact same thing when they steamrolled us last weak – wear tougher gear and use bunker builds. Here’s one example, several more in that matchup thread.

Not sure if/how many TC’ers took it to heart. Our WvW guilds are generally built tough, but not all our militia are, and there are some new players who may not be aware.

But yeah, it’s interesting how the PvE and WvW gear meta’s are so extremely diametrically opposed – full zerker everything for PvE, full Sentinels/Soldiers everything for WvW.

Zaulhghev.5308:

Because if you watch the way TC moves on a commander, it is obvious that they are on TS.

…

Do you know how difficult it is for the commander to write everything out in /t? Especially in the middle of a fight?

Our guilds are in TS (or Mumble), but our most popular commanders actually relay their commands to /s too. We have a lot of militia that can’t/won’t use Mumble (have to keep an ear out for crying baby in the next room, stuff like that), and many of our commanders try to be accommodating to that.

So it is possible to command with very terse /s commands, but it depends on the militia knowing what they all mean:

Stack: Stack on the commander, spam fire fields and blast finishers, and only fire fields unless something else is specifically called for.
Push: Push all the way through the enemy zerg to the safety of the other side, don’t stop in the middle, don’t stop to stomp, don’t chase stragglers, stay on the commander
Fall Back: Back up, don’t get drawn into their kill zone, stay on your commander
Follow: We’re moving, stay with me
Build: Flash build this siege ASAP
Use this: Man this siege

Those few used in /s pop a chat bubble over the commander’s head that everyone can see, even militia not on TS, and as long as they have some idea what zerg fights are about they can figure out the rest.

And all the militia really need to know is just two things – be tanky, and stick on the commander like glue. If they can do those two things reliably, they at least won’t be free revives. We’re still having to reinforce that point too.

JakobGW.5730:

I’ve noticed that you guys say this a lot: that you have a large amount of PvE’ers. It certainly seems like you’re implying that this is the reason you have bad players. . . .

That’s all and well, but I can tell you that we don’t even consider guesting on TC anymore when we (God forbid!) have to PvE karma train in Orr. We never see anyone there. Hell, just yesterday we tried to guest on TC to run a few quick CoFs and, of course, the dungeon was contested and no one was anywhere on the map to un-contest it.

In my experience, you have no more PvE’ers than any other T4 server and above.

If we so tragically fail at WvW and PvE, we still have RP to fall back on! (Sorry for feeding the troll :\ )

Zaulhghev.5308:

Screw it I’ll just write one.

@CD:

TC is going to win because of coverage yeah. Should they be pounding us this badly no.

Except for rare occasions 40 of us are consistently melting under their organized 20. You know why TC is destroying us when we meet them on the field?

Because they care about what armor and runes they are wearing. We do not. Why is berserker gear in WvW the norm? When did this become a good idea. Especially given how easy it is to pick up a second set now with the WvW exotic armor vendor. Your CoF grinding gear and trait build makes you a free rally.

Because they care about what professions they bring and we do not. We have almost no necromancers and the ones we do have for some reason are running minions. Almost all of our eles are d/d. We have maybe 2 mesmers at any time and they don’t veil nor are they ever asked to. Why are they running moas as their elites? I cant tell you.

(That TC group that destroyed us in TC BL Hills on reset was like 10 guys. We were in the most easily defensible room in the map, they were outside, the Lord was down. We outnumbered them. I am not going to sit here and pretend like they are not built better than we are. We too could do that with 10 guys if we cared to build it.)

Because if you watch the way TC moves on a commander, it is obvious that they are on TS. Outside of organized planned pushes, it is hard to get CD into it. And then the separate guilds don’t want to get in the same channel. Do you know how difficult it is for the commander to write everything out in /t? Especially in the middle of a fight?

Because we’re useless without a commander. People log into a WvW map and if there is no commander, leave without bothering to ask on /m if something is going on.

Because for some reason we don’t include food in our build. I don’t know how many friendlies I see never using it. I go from target to target on an organized TC group and most had some consumable boons.

We make emo decisions. Sat morning you all abandoned EBG to come throw bodies at TC in CD BL bay. SoS took all of our stuff in EBG and TC methodically took all of our holdings in CD BL. Because of the coverage disparity EBG is the only map where we can hold our own. When we took our third of EBG back it was all freakin paper again.

We do not push, we only react and usually poorly. We run. When we run, they destroy us because we’re stringed out. Collect, turn around and fight guys. When we push as a group, we are stronger than when we spread out and let them focus us down.

We are easily broken. Our “big rallied push” to take back our garry on Saturday was not 50 but more like 60 of us. That humiliating wipe cleared us in seconds. Did we re-rally? No. That 20 RE or whatever group hit us like a freight train and destroyed us – get over it. Try again or elsewhere. Everyone fell apart after that.

And to answer the question I keep hearing in /m as to how TC seems to know where we are all the time on our BL, open up your map. Draw a large circle around Citadel. Then mark it with “<—— CD is here.”

It is not like I am giving away big secrets here. I am sure they can tell and that is why they are now throwing uplevels at us. 25 of us just got smashed by a naked roaming party of like 15.

We have server training and nobody shows up. If at this point you do not think we need it then maybe its that ego that is to blame as much as Anet’s screwy system.

We should be losing yeah but not this terribly.

I keep hearing from CDers that we have no interest in getting better. That would have flown before though that attitude lost us a lot of our best but going forward these matchups are going to happen. Unless Anet fixes this, this is what WvW we are going to see. If you want to continue to pretend that WvW is sPvP, you’ll need to transfer down a few notches. Are these mismatches ANet’s fault? Yeah. So get mad at them if you want to.

But we can either adapt, make the best of a bad situation, or we can sit here and pretend we are salvaging our pride by trolling the forums or whatever it is you guys think you are doing. When did we turn into Maguuma? For the small amount of WvWing you are doing you guys certainly are all over this thread.

Anyways I hope our conduct straightens up next time we are up against a real challenge after everyone is all rested up. We worked hard these two past weeks everyone, but we could also work smarter and the way that CD is representing itself on this forum is a joke. I’m definitely not coming back to these forums its painful to see what we’re painting ourselves as. SoS, cheers mates. You guys are putting on a much better show than we are. TC, I know we’re boring you to tears but it is at least a WvW break for you.

Going to quote this for more awareness. Excellent summary. The best thing I’ve read on the forums so far.

Estaily

I’ve said some things, not kind things, about CD in the past. Their WvW community the first month and a half was toxic and the QQ in some of the SoS-CD-SBI threads was pitiful.

Yet I see this situation here, see the effort they put in the last 2 matches; and think they are about to really get their ship in order.

It all starts at the guild level. Call your guildies out on their dungeon build. I have guildies I really like, but I still give them crap when they are the first to die.
Build a comprehensive strategy on how you will play as a group. Have a role for every profession, recommended builds that they are encouraged to use.
Your guild’s play will stand out, and militia will flock to you when you show up on the map.
You find guilds and commanders you want to work with, avoid the egotists and trolls. You build an alliance.

This does not happen easily or quickly. It takes people time to realize that VoiP is the only way to WvW properly, and that if they don’t like eating dirt for a week straight; that you need to adapt the game and stop waiting for the game to adapt to you.

ANet has made it clear that they are going to continue to implement policies that value coverage over play. We need to face the grim truth that the developers have no plans, outside of ceasing letting the enemy see your outmanned buff, to address this.

Only you and your guild can affect how WvW will go for your server.

Zaulhghev.5308:

Because they care about what armor and runes they are wearing. We do not. Why is berserker gear in WvW the norm? When did this become a good idea. Especially given how easy it is to pick up a second set now with the WvW exotic armor vendor. Your CoF grinding gear and trait build makes you a free rally.

Because they care about what professions they bring and we do not. We have almost no necromancers and the ones we do have for some reason are running minions. Almost all of our eles are d/d. We have maybe 2 mesmers at any time and they don’t veil nor are they ever asked to. Why are they running moas as their elites? I cant tell you.

Perhaps because they are a zerg T2 server and we are not? Perhaps it’s because we let our players play how they want, and they have zerglings? Perhaps their main goal is to zerg/PvD and ours is to have fun on a different level.

I didn’t read the rest of your post.

To my server mates: play how you want, when you want. Enjoy the game on your terms, and don’t let someone tell you how to play. If you want organized, large blobs of goo zergs running amok in the borderlands, maybe this isn’t the place for you.

I, for one, enjoy the small man fights. I enjoy running a havoc squad. I enjoy making videos of our outmanned fights. I do not enjoy zergs or PvD. I’d appreciate it if you didn’t tell me how you want me to play the game, or what armor I need to wear, or what spec I need to run, or what utilities/elites I need to have ready.

Let me, and my entire server, play the game how I/we want.

While I think being serious in WVW is okay, but sometimes, we have to remember to have fun too. And how do we measure fun might be different for other players. So, are the amount of time, money and effort they spend and we spend in making sure our hero is at his or her peak.

JakobGW.5730:

Zaulhghev.5308:

Because they care about what armor and runes they are wearing. We do not. Why is berserker gear in WvW the norm? When did this become a good idea. Especially given how easy it is to pick up a second set now with the WvW exotic armor vendor. Your CoF grinding gear and trait build makes you a free rally.

Because they care about what professions they bring and we do not. We have almost no necromancers and the ones we do have for some reason are running minions. Almost all of our eles are d/d. We have maybe 2 mesmers at any time and they don’t veil nor are they ever asked to. Why are they running moas as their elites? I cant tell you.

Let me, and my entire server, play the game how I/we want.

I think you 2 are on the same server. If I am wrong then forgive me.

Kreaven.3172:

JakobGW.5730:

Zaulhghev.5308:

Because they care about what armor and runes they are wearing. We do not. Why is berserker gear in WvW the norm? When did this become a good idea. Especially given how easy it is to pick up a second set now with the WvW exotic armor vendor. Your CoF grinding gear and trait build makes you a free rally.

Because they care about what professions they bring and we do not. We have almost no necromancers and the ones we do have for some reason are running minions. Almost all of our eles are d/d. We have maybe 2 mesmers at any time and they don’t veil nor are they ever asked to. Why are they running moas as their elites? I cant tell you.

Let me, and my entire server, play the game how I/we want.

I think you 2 are on the same server. If I am wrong then forgive me.

I know we are.

Kreaven.3172:

JakobGW.5730:

Zaulhghev.5308:

Because they care about what armor and runes they are wearing. We do not. Why is berserker gear in WvW the norm? When did this become a good idea. Especially given how easy it is to pick up a second set now with the WvW exotic armor vendor. Your CoF grinding gear and trait build makes you a free rally.

Because they care about what professions they bring and we do not. We have almost no necromancers and the ones we do have for some reason are running minions. Almost all of our eles are d/d. We have maybe 2 mesmers at any time and they don’t veil nor are they ever asked to. Why are they running moas as their elites? I cant tell you.

Let me, and my entire server, play the game how I/we want.

I think you 2 are on the same server. If I am wrong then forgive me.

lol. That is atleast one of CDs (& other developing servers) problems. People get all defensive when few guilds try to organize/teach a server militia. Honestly if you can’t help, and have nothing constructive to say stop talking. If you have the right to play how you want, the others have the right to organize your new players and teach them, it is the responsibility of the veterans to pass the knowledge to new players or alts; it’s how you play the game.

JakobGW.5730:

Kreaven.3172:

JakobGW.5730:

Zaulhghev.5308:

Because they care about what armor and runes they are wearing. We do not. Why is berserker gear in WvW the norm? When did this become a good idea. Especially given how easy it is to pick up a second set now with the WvW exotic armor vendor. Your CoF grinding gear and trait build makes you a free rally.

Because they care about what professions they bring and we do not. We have almost no necromancers and the ones we do have for some reason are running minions. Almost all of our eles are d/d. We have maybe 2 mesmers at any time and they don’t veil nor are they ever asked to. Why are they running moas as their elites? I cant tell you.

Let me, and my entire server, play the game how I/we want.

I think you 2 are on the same server. If I am wrong then forgive me.

I know we are.

Ahh my bad then, I misunderstood the direction you were coming from. My bad!

Jakob’s group are one of the best hitman teams in all of WvW. No straggler is safe from them. I will put their 4-7 people against any other team of similar size in the game and bet on them.

I also think their collective contribution to PPT can be measured in single digits and they haven’t done a single thing for their server and should be the last people anyone on CD should listen to when it comes to bettering their situation.

If your goal is to flip camps and kill stragglers, you play like Jakob. If you want to capture keeps and hold them against waves of attackers, you’ll start finding like-minded folks and start training.

Chris.3290:

Jakob’s group are one of the best hitman teams in all of WvW. No straggler is safe from them. I will put their 4-7 people against any other team of similar size in the game and bet on them.

I also think their collective contribution to PPT can be measured in single digits and they haven’t done a single thing for their server and should be the last people anyone on CD should listen to when it comes to bettering their situation.

If your goal is to flip camps and kill stragglers, you play like Jakob. If you want to capture keeps and hold them against waves of attackers, you’ll start finding like-minded folks and start training.

There’s nothing wrong with flipping camps as long as the main zerg is taking advantage of it and is aware of the ops team.

Aieo.2815:

There’s nothing wrong with flipping camps as long as the main zerg is taking advantage of it and is aware of the ops team.

Judging by the tone he set towards a member of his own server, I don’t think he talks to anyone in the ‘main zerg’

It’s fine that he plays that way, but he has no business trying to stop a servermate from trying to fix their crapped out situation.

Chris.3290:

Jakob’s group are one of the best hitman teams in all of WvW. No straggler is safe from them. I will put their 4-7 people against any other team of similar size in the game and bet on them.

I also think their collective contribution to PPT can be measured in single digits and they haven’t done a single thing for their server and should be the last people anyone on CD should listen to when it comes to bettering their situation.

If your goal is to flip camps and kill stragglers, you play like Jakob. If you want to capture keeps and hold them against waves of attackers, you’ll start finding like-minded folks and start training.

It is true that I’ve made it clear that PPT is secondary to our little team. We like fights, pure and simple.

However, when there are more than 3 of us on at a time, we always have a secondary goal when roaming. If our zerg is attacking Bay, you’ll find our squad in the valley just North between Bay and the Garrison, picking off stragglers, halting enemy reinforcements, causing havoc away from the ultimate goal of seizing the keep.

If our zerg is attacking a tower, you’ll see us on the flanks, waiting for straggling enemy reinforcements to arrive and we’ll make kitten sure they don’t get into the tower to man the arrow carts inside.

Our favorite pastime is taking the North camp, seizing it up, watching the enemy numbers grow and grow trying to take it back, while our zerg is down south; their enemy numbers dwindling because the enemy is so obsessed with taking back the North camp they will forget the primary objective to the South.

Basically what I’m trying to point out is that saying our squad hasn’t done a single thing for our server may be a stretch, in my humble opinion. =P

Chris.3290:

Jakob’s group are one of the best hitman teams in all of WvW. No straggler is safe from them. I will put their 4-7 people against any other team of similar size in the game and bet on them.

I also think their collective contribution to PPT can be measured in single digits and they haven’t done a single thing for their server and should be the last people anyone on CD should listen to when it comes to bettering their situation.

If your goal is to flip camps and kill stragglers, you play like Jakob. If you want to capture keeps and hold them against waves of attackers, you’ll start finding like-minded folks and start training.

I don’t recall anywhere in Jakob’s post where he’s trying to give advice in order to “better” the situation for CD. He’s merely stating that he thinks people (and this goes for all servers, not just CD) should play the game the way they like to play it. Seeing as how we all have our different play styles and we all bought our own copy of the game, I tend to agree.

That being said, havoc squads can and do contribute. I’ll put it out here that I don’t give a kitten about the score. I play this game to have fun and running in my small squad is what I enjoy. All the same, the things we do in WvW contribute to our server, just not in the way that a 50-man zerg does. The best example I can think of is when we take and hold (OK, you might call it troll) the north camp. I can’t count how many times we’ve taken the north camp, sieged it, upgraded it and held it for several ticks. Meanwhile, a force is amassing at spawn to take back their north camp. Why? Because let’s face it, we all hate it when we lose that north camp. While we’re holding the north camp and the opposing force is building I’ve watched on numerous ocassions as our PPT has slowly crept up as we’ve managed to lure more and more people away from other objectives. Eventually a group (or even a full out zerg) shows up and sends us packing.

Also keep in mind that until we lose it, we’ve just scored our server a fully upgraded camp with full supply. Why is that less important than the 50-man zerg that rolls around and takes a tower? Where are they going to supply up to build the siege to take the tower without the supply? Can they go get a supply camp to build their siege? Absolutely – but if you’ve got havoc squads running the camps, escorting yaks and killing enemy supply then that frees up the zergs to take the objectives.

Chris.3290:

Aieo.2815:

There’s nothing wrong with flipping camps as long as the main zerg is taking advantage of it and is aware of the ops team.

Judging by the tone he set towards a member of his own server, I don’t think he talks to anyone in the ‘main zerg’

It’s fine that he plays that way, but he has no business trying to stop a servermate from trying to fix their crapped out situation.

Ugh. Again I think you misunderstand. Doesn’t look to me like he’s trying to stop anyone from fixing our “crapped out situation.” He’s simply saying play the way you want to play. If this guy (can’t remember his name) wants to form training for our server, etc. than more power to him. But people shouldn’t feel the least bit bad for not wanting to change their spec, gear, etc.

Oh, and I don’t think we have a crapped out situation at all. We simply don’t have the numbers to be competitive with TC, and to a lesser extent, SoS. I think we have a great server with some equally great players. Just got some bad RNG in this matchup roll.

As I have been saying for closing on a year, Players bring the fun in WvW. For me the variety of builds and playstyles adds to the experience. I like the RNG matches, I also like tankier builds but that is my choice..

CD, SoS, TC you all have some terrific players, please continue bringing the fun. . Please treat server mates and enemy as fellow gamers where possible.

Good luck, see you on the battlefields fellow gamers!

/me gets popcorn

Had fun with the TC/SOS jump party by SM….good times.

This thread is depressing on so many levels. If CD ever “improves” to the level of TC where players have to do sentry duty, players must be on VoIP, players must run around in at least 15-20 man zerg balls dutifully following the commander, and players must all wear PVT gear with masses of AoE fields/finishers for their utilities… I will say that I will be one of the first to transfer off.

Waffler.1257:

This thread is depressing on so many levels. If CD ever “improves” to the level of TC where players have to do sentry duty, players must be on VoIP, players must run around in at least 15-20 man zerg balls dutifully following the commander, and players must all wear PVT gear with masses of AoE fields/finishers for their utilities… I will say that I will be one of the first to transfer off.

If you dislike it, then you can pretty much except to be at a disadvantage. The Mists is at war. You can’t prance around a battlezone wearing your favorite My Little Pony cosplay.

That said, when I came into WvW at a low level (around 45, kinda crap when up against FA and DB) I did not follow the main zerg. It was a death sentence; AoE murdered me before I could even fire off a shot. Uplevels should be scouts. That’s how we know where everyone is. We have people who don’t want to follow the ball around—that’s fine. The least we request of them is to relay enemy positions in /m.

It’s much easier to hide/escape as one man rather than an entire zerg.

Mordecai.6318:

Sovereign.1093:

MomentofWeakness.1246:

SoR was the most exciting server I ever played. Although I am a new TC player, I can tell you I learned more fighting them than I have learned my entire WvW experience. I will take losing to them more often if we get fights like we did last week. It helped me step up my play because of the high tempo that SoR plays at. Special thanks to [FEAR], [TSYM], [IRON], and [HELIOZ] for the tough fights!

To show you what I mean you can watch these:

[RE] Rethesis vs Sanctum of Rall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek28C8758P0

[RE] Rethesis & [CERN] vs Sanctum of Rall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbfqGv3-E-s

Note: We unfortunately didn’t get all the fights here on the second video from the SoR Guilds vs. TC Guilds matchup on SoS BL. Us on TC lost the first 2, took 1, lost 1 more, then won the next 5.

Nice, The HOST OST. >3< hmmm

OST.The Host – Radioactive – Imagine Dragons

Good job RE and CERN. Two guilds worth emulating.

RE worth emulating? ROLFME

You just jelly of our overflowing barrel of swag and cookies. We stole the swag from maguuma and the cookies were our welcome present from TC

Waffler.1257:

This thread is depressing on so many levels. If CD ever “improves” to the level of TC where players have to do sentry duty, players must be on VoIP, players must run around in at least 15-20 man zerg balls dutifully following the commander, and players must all wear PVT gear with masses of AoE fields/finishers for their utilities… I will say that I will be one of the first to transfer off.

This. It’s good to consciously try to better yourself. And it’s great that there are training sessions to raise awareness of how to play better, etc. But when you’re just a body using cookie cutter builds and equips, on a voip 24/7, basically just being a slave with few to no choices of your own, is it still fun? When does it stop being a game?

The tiers separate servers with different philosophies in this subject. The higher tiers are more disciplined. When I see TC, they seem extremely disciplined, very military-like. From watching them, I can tell that I would hate to play on TC. Brom’s response that “uplevels should do nothing but scout” cements this. And no offense to them either; different people like different things. But I like the atmosphere of the mid-tiers where it’s less serious and more fun. The last couple weeks against YB and KN were great match ups; I’m sure everyone that played in them can agree. No one was complaining about how undisciplined we are then.

Basically, and to state the obvious, this whole mess is just because the system put us in a league above our own this week. The fault isn’t in the players.

Mif.3471:

:3

That asura is flat out adorable. Ain’t gonna lie.

And here I was, thinking that our zergs are some of the goofiest one’s around. Military? Gimme a friggin break!

I don’t think it’s very fair to brand us as playing in a way that is “not fun” by simply observing – sure maybe it just looks like a mass of tags rolling over your outnumbered group every time, but if you ever saw TC map chat or hop onto the mumble channels it might change your opinion! Everyone plays the game to have fun so please don’t have the idea that “high tier servers” somehow are just mindless robots following an icon and spamming buttons =(

Sorry if I implied that TC itself was robotic, I was more so criticizing what previous posts were saying about how CD should become. Your zergs are extremely well-disciplined, though.

Ninya.3942:

Mordecai.6318:

Sovereign.1093:

MomentofWeakness.1246:

SoR was the most exciting server I ever played. Although I am a new TC player, I can tell you I learned more fighting them than I have learned my entire WvW experience. I will take losing to them more often if we get fights like we did last week. It helped me step up my play because of the high tempo that SoR plays at. Special thanks to [FEAR], [TSYM], [IRON], and [HELIOZ] for the tough fights!

To show you what I mean you can watch these:

[RE] Rethesis vs Sanctum of Rall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek28C8758P0

[RE] Rethesis & [CERN] vs Sanctum of Rall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbfqGv3-E-s

Note: We unfortunately didn’t get all the fights here on the second video from the SoR Guilds vs. TC Guilds matchup on SoS BL. Us on TC lost the first 2, took 1, lost 1 more, then won the next 5.

Nice, The HOST OST. >3< hmmm

OST.The Host – Radioactive – Imagine Dragons

Good job RE and CERN. Two guilds worth emulating.

RE worth emulating? ROLFME

You just jelly of our overflowing barrel of swag and cookies. We stole the swag from maguuma and the cookies were our welcome present from TC

Magswag is basically an STD at this point.

Zaulhghev.5308:

…

WTF???

You must be blind for saying our group of 40 dies to there 20. You obviously weren’t there for the reset then. Quit while you’re ahead with your ‘politeness’.

Huygens.4075:

Ninya.3942:

Mordecai.6318:

Sovereign.1093:

MomentofWeakness.1246:

SoR was the most exciting server I ever played. Although I am a new TC player, I can tell you I learned more fighting them than I have learned my entire WvW experience. I will take losing to them more often if we get fights like we did last week. It helped me step up my play because of the high tempo that SoR plays at. Special thanks to [FEAR], [TSYM], [IRON], and [HELIOZ] for the tough fights!

To show you what I mean you can watch these:

[RE] Rethesis vs Sanctum of Rall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek28C8758P0

[RE] Rethesis & [CERN] vs Sanctum of Rall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbfqGv3-E-s

Note: We unfortunately didn’t get all the fights here on the second video from the SoR Guilds vs. TC Guilds matchup on SoS BL. Us on TC lost the first 2, took 1, lost 1 more, then won the next 5.

Nice, The HOST OST. >3< hmmm

OST.The Host – Radioactive – Imagine Dragons

Good job RE and CERN. Two guilds worth emulating.

RE worth emulating? ROLFME

You just jelly of our overflowing barrel of swag and cookies. We stole the swag from maguuma and the cookies were our welcome present from TC

Magswag is basically an STD at this point.

LOL.

actually if ur running around solo use w/e gear u want same if ur with ur friends ina small group

The only u should wrry about ur gear and build is if ur with the main group trying to cap towers or defends cause if ur using zerker gear and u die and rally the other team u hurt ur side more then help

Great fights tonight in SoS bl and CD BL , taking bay and garrison was a little surprise ?

I like this.

Dog power.

JakobGW.5730:

Zaulhghev.5308:

Because they care about what armor and runes they are wearing. We do not. Why is berserker gear in WvW the norm? When did this become a good idea. Especially given how easy it is to pick up a second set now with the WvW exotic armor vendor. Your CoF grinding gear and trait build makes you a free rally.

Because they care about what professions they bring and we do not. We have almost no necromancers and the ones we do have for some reason are running minions. Almost all of our eles are d/d. We have maybe 2 mesmers at any time and they don’t veil nor are they ever asked to. Why are they running moas as their elites? I cant tell you.

I didn’t read the rest of your post.

Well, here are some highlights you may have missed:

Zaulhghev.5308:

Except for rare occasions 40 of us are consistently melting under their organized 20.
…
That TC group that destroyed us in TC BL Hills on reset was like 10 guys. We were in the most easily defensible room in the map, they were outside, the Lord was down. We outnumbered them.
…
Our “big rallied push” to take back our garry on Saturday was not 50 but more like 60 of us.

It’s pretty clear from actually reading it that the focus of his comments are people who are already zerging (even though some points, like using food, apply to anyone). He also mentioned way up front that coverage was enough to keep you from actually winning, which ultimately seems to be what ‘tier’ has come down to thus far, so I don’t know why you’re saying ’they’re tier 2’ as though it was being ignored.

If you’re under the impression that doing what he suggested would somehow require the smaller groups like yours to join zergs – it doesn’t. I’ve often seen TC commanders actually call for volunteers to do pretty much what you describe yourself doing, and (from observation and on principle) I don’t believe havoc groups are useless as far as points go; it’s a support role, albeit a pretty indirect one. Like any support role, its usefulness relies on the people it supports being capable in their own area, which (allegedly) a lot of them aren’t, hence his shopping list of improvements to zergs.

And yes, there are always going to be people doing stuff that doesn’t work very well just because it amuses them or whatever, but I think they’re largely written off and implicitly ignored in ‘this is what we’re doing wrong’ speeches. It’s just common sense to direct that kind of effort toward people who actually want to make improvements to their approach, and unless otherwise specified it makes sense to assume it has been so directed; there’s no point adding a disclaimer before every piece of generic advice you ever give that says ‘Excepting those persons who don’t care’ because they’re perfectly capable of excepting themselves.

Waffler.1257:

This thread is depressing on so many levels. If CD ever “improves” to the level of TC where players have to do sentry duty, players must be on VoIP, players must run around in at least 15-20 man zerg balls dutifully following the commander, and players must all wear PVT gear with masses of AoE fields/finishers for their utilities… I will say that I will be one of the first to transfer off.

Let’s group and eat popsicles and watch Adventure Time and race go-carts because that would be fun.

Chris.3290:

It’s fine that he plays that way, but he has no business trying to stop a servermate from trying to fix their crapped out situation.

There is no crapped out situation.

CD is fine, in a great spot too. Just because some guy is QQ’ing does not make it so that we aren’t having fun.

The guy has no clue about the match either from his pointing out the numbers.

Brom Malochson.9306:

If you dislike it, then you can pretty much except to be at a disadvantage. The Mists is at war. You can’t prance around a battlezone wearing your favorite My Little Pony cosplay.

I’m far from cosplaying when I go into WvW. Just this morning I went out to SoS BL where a CERN thief tried to cap the south camp so I killed him. He came back and tried again, and against I killed him. He came back a third time and killed all the NPCs, but when he saw me coming he just up and ran out of the cap circle and that was the last I saw of him. Next a group of 3 TC from random guilds came and tried to cap. I killed 2 of them and the third got to 1/2 health and ran off. Then a group of 4 TC from a guild called VSGo or something similar came and tried to cap. They managed to kill all the NPCs, but by that time I had either defeated or downed all of them, so I simply finished them off and rezzed the NPCs once again. They came back a second time, but this time they just stood at the edge of the camp surveying for awhile despite the fact that I was the only defender, unfortunately for them backup came and wiped them once again. I know it’s been awhile since TC has seen the lower tiers, but PVT zerging isn’t the meta in WvW, it’s the meta in Tier 1/2 and one of the most brain-dead forms of PvP I’ve ever seen.

Kreaven.3172:

I would be hard pressed to find another server as resilient as yours.

From everything I’ve heard, and even seen a bit of last week:
Looked in the mirror lately? :p

You’re not the Zombie Coast for nothing.

kurtosis.9526:

So it is possible to command with very terse /s commands, but it depends on the militia knowing what they all mean:

Seconding this. We were actually celebrating last night ’cause one of the better commanders on SoS finally got a mic. He still hardly used it :p

Waffler.1257:

but PVT zerging isn’t the meta in WvW, it’s the meta in Tier 1/2

So… it’s not the meta in WvW, it’s just the winning meta in WvW?

Isn’t that, you know, one of the main objectives of meta? To determine winning strategies?

Waffler.1257:

This thread is depressing on so many levels. If CD ever “improves” to the level of TC where players have to do sentry duty, players must be on VoIP, players must run around in at least 15-20 man zerg balls dutifully following the commander, and players must all wear PVT gear with masses of AoE fields/finishers for their utilities… I will say that I will be one of the first to transfer off.

Hey, iwe been on TC since start, and we are what you say to some extent, but that is among the core, the experienced wvw guilds, but yet their not, no one ever forces anyone, and there is very little yelling or drama ewen in defeat… Sure we have the discipline, but its in a relaxed way, they will help you, show you, if you want, but its up to you… when there is need for a sentry, or rear guard duty, there is general a call for a voulunteer and someone steps up “mostly”

So yes we TC have a very organiced wvw guilds, and we also have the loose militia, and in some magic way, it works, its very much agree to disagree and help each other out anyway, and if that fails, well, then we can allways just zombie attack ;P

It comes down to share the burdons, the more that does it, the less of the boring and more of the fun for everyone, sure not allways it works, but mostly

Have funs !

Waffler.1257:

…and one of the most brain-dead forms of PvP I’ve ever seen.

If your enemies splatter all over you because they’re not familiar with it and are largely frail builds designed for PvE and/or roaming, then yeah, it isn’t going to make you think a whole lot. Like most things it’ll be as ‘braindead’ as it can get away with at the time, and yes, when it’s very mindless it’s also very boring – which is probably why people come here and suggest improvements, and why the same thing was happening last week in our match with SoR.

Mattimeo.2146:

Waffler.1257:

but PVT zerging isn’t the meta in WvW, it’s the meta in Tier 1/2

So… it’s not the meta in WvW, it’s just the winning meta in WvW?

Isn’t that, you know, one of the main objectives of meta? To determine winning strategies?

Wrong again. It’s the meta in Tier 1/2 because they have overwhelming amounts of players. In those tiers, even when servers split their forces up on any map, they will still end up with groups of 20-30 at least. In the lower tiers at most times during the day you may only have 5-15 players on an enemy BL map, so you will often have fights in the range of 3v3 to 6v6. In small group play PVT gear isn’t necessary because you can track all of the opponents you are fighting, take notice of their classes/builds, and read their actions to predict how they will attack you. This allows you to avoid all or most of their damage through well-timed dodges, blocks, blinds, invulnerability skills, evades, and interrupts which is one of the biggest differences between a good player and a bad one. When you are fighting 30 players, it is impossible to micro-manage them in this way resulting in you taking damage no matter how good your timing/reflexes are, which is why everyone is forced to wear PVT gear. If you have a typical 5v5 mid to low-tier fight over a supply camp, and one team wears all PVT, stacks up, and runs around in circles balled up while spamming AoE they would be destroyed.

The pure and simple truth of this match is numbers. Yeah, tactics, planning, buffing, all apply but this game WvW is about numbers. As a CD we can’t match TC, and we don’t have any hope to. I’ve seen incredible defenses by CD, I’ve seen smart, slow sieges from TC as well. The bottom line is, if you have the numbers, and between CD and TC I honestly haven’t seen a situation where we outnumbered you in a siege, it’s the numbers that make the difference.

We all talk about tactics, and they are important, I’ve seen it, but if you outnumber your opponent 2 to 1, or even 3 to 1, your tactics don’t matter so much. As long as your group/zerg aren’t complete morons, you’re going to win. Yeah, alot of people should have more non-squishy gear, etc, etc. But the fact is, squishy or not, if you have 20, and your opponent has 60, and neither group are complete morons, the 60 is gonna win. It’s not that complicated really.

When CD faced the Yak’s and Kain for 2 weeks, with very close numbers and coverage, do you think we were magically better then them? We worked hard to stay together, and siege up as best we could. Do the higher tiers think they’re actually THAT much better then the lower tiers? It comes down to numbers people, and yes it’s important where you put those numbers, in close matches. If you have 500, to your opponents 100, what the hell do you think is gonna happen?

@Waffler

Every server has bad players, whats your point? I could say the same for many of the players who basically backpedaled and stood in spot for my backstabs and did nothing to stop me from killing them 3v1 with ease. This doesn’t represent CD as a whole, it just means every server has bad players, or players who aren’t suited for that situation.

You shouldn’t assign a whole label on a server on their pvp competence based on 1 event, nor should you suggest WvW can ever be PvP meta, its Spvp that holds that crown, and it’s community.

@jschultz

Its more than just numbers though. Tonight during our roaming WvW small guild group of about 7-8 people, the number of times CD fell for baits that would never work on a tier 2 server, repeatedly was shocking. It was insane how basic the tactics we could use were that worked on CD players. It isn’t just numbers, its more than that, its experience, its dedication (which doesn’t mean the military style you seem to indicate, our mumble channel is actually very relaxed and has a lot of stupid silly stuff as a guild). Ultimately, a server having spent enough time in tier 2 has had to accommodate to its difficulty and thus come out stronger than it ever was back in tier 3. CD has the potential to do the same.

TC also has a very welcoming and inclusive community, so a lot of guilds transfer in, and not a lot transfer out, it is just fun to be on a server where almost all maps are lively and people are genuinely friendly to strangers.

To cut it short, its numbers, but its also experience, its also tactics and it is also wisdom. Like I said, baits that worked tonight on CD groups, and I counted about 4 different groups it worked on the same tactic 3 times on 1 of them, would not work on our love hate friends FA.

PistolWhip.2697:

@Waffler

Every server has bad players, whats your point? I could say the same for many of the players who basically backpedaled and stood in spot for my backstabs and did nothing to stop me from killing them 3v1 with ease. This doesn’t represent CD as a whole, it just means every server has bad players, or players who aren’t suited for that situation.

You shouldn’t assign a whole label on a server on their pvp competence based on 1 event, nor should you suggest WvW can ever be PvP meta, its Spvp that holds that crown, and it’s community.

I didn’t assign any labels to any servers. Brom made a statement that implied if you aren’t playing the PVT zerg game, then you are prancing around cosplaying. I provided an example to illustrate otherwise.

That’s a zerging idea, which works very well I must add, but CERN is a zerging guild, they have their own focus they cater to.

Our guild dont do it, neither do a lot of small roam groups.

Yes the game is about numbers atm,yes cd cant match tc.
We got that part.
SoR had us undermanned almost 24/7 in the previous match up,we still took sm from them 5 times.
And SoR was kept outside our towers for hours.
Personaly i am looking down on CD atm not because of theyr coverage or people that are in but because they just surrendered.
I am on SoS 9 months,i hate my own server at times yet there are two things i hate more.
Giving up and Surrendering.
Each day i wake up,i recap what we lost and siege it up and defend it.
And i do that everyday ,no matter how i much i dislike the rest commanders that the first thing they do when they get in is to run to headbutt the enemy dragging more down with them.
If you were for a momment on our side during our overlook defences,you wont see despair drama and nagging (except mez,he is our drama mascot so we let him rant) .
You would see that we are actually haveing fun,that instead of going into panic we are actually farming the enemy for badges since we dont cling like morons to the guardian/ele/hammer warrior combo zerg.
So CD please WAKE UP and start defending at least something with pride instead of lifting your legs and surrendering.

/rant off
Call me offensive if you want but you needed a slap there,better see the advice on it before you earn a reputation of beeing a pushover.
And i have respect to those few CD that go around EB recaping after TC flips everything before dying on overlook.

Just stop telling other servers what they should do, or that they are doing whatever wrong and that they should learn from whoever. It never ends well.

People who don’t like how things are either try to change the way they and their guild play, or they move to other servers that fit their playstyle. People who want to play the way they do will continue to do so. All the kitten flinging is getting boring to read.

Be more specific. I’ve already seen a lot of improvement from SoS overall, but a generic “teach us something” doesn’t really explain what you want.

Her point was that you don’t seem to have anything genuinely new to teach us. It’s just an awful lot of stuff that we knew already or mild variations on what already existed. The only thing we can be genuinely thankful for in this match is that in losing in this kind of situation, it makes the militia much more inclined to listen to how they can win in the form of actually getting onto TS3, playing as a group, not making stupid build choices, etc. as opposed to them just being able to randomly run around and zerg mindlessly.