Guild Wars 2

Evalana.5480:

Alissa isn’t even in this matchup.

Problem?

Shifty.4985:

Not meaning any disrespect, but cant ZDs run tagless and fight us?
that way both will enjoy the fights

We did run tagless until the last few minutes of our raid when we had too little people to make a difference inside the borderland, the problem is that it seems like we run tag because we have 20 non ZD’s running with us. We don’t do it on purpose, they just follow us by their own accord.

Evalana.5480:

What is this thread? I don’t even…. I am speechless. We are ALL delusional, Alissa isn’t even in this matchup. Roaming doesn’t exist for anyone. Again, all the solo roamers complaining about x server not having solo roamers…. my head is going to explode. This thread, omg. I am so dumbfounded. Wow. Wow….. woooooow. Just…..wow.

I need a drink.

Look at them. So kitten cute! Who’s a good boy!

Jon.5271:

Shifty.4985:

Not meaning any disrespect, but cant ZDs run tagless and fight us?
that way both will enjoy the fights

We did run tagless until the last few minutes of our raid when we had too little people to make a difference inside the borderland, the problem is that it seems like we run tag because we have 20 non ZD’s running with us. We don’t do it on purpose, they just follow us by their own accord.

Just leave your commander tag off, have decent 30 v 30 or whatever the number is than a blob vs 30, we do it, just asking why dont you.

Israel.7056:

Jaxs.5830:

It just so happens that only one of the items in the list above has nothing to do with personal skill and is entirely outside of any one persons control. It is the least personal form of winning in the game.

WvW is more about working together as a server. I didn’t always see it that way but I’ve really had a change of heart over time. Now if I’m leading our group in WvW I’ll try to steer it towards making ourselves helpful to whatever the rest of our server is trying to achieve on the map.

Did your change of heart come while playing on one of the only three servers that have a reason to play for PPT? In other games I would agree with you, but not in GW2, the system is too broken. There is not enough off-hour population to support enough balanced servers for the much larger NA population. If everyone lumped up to make balanced servers based on the availability of off-hour population, all of the NA folks would spend most of their time in the upcoming overflow map.

When close match-ups become the norm rather than a once in a blue moon event, I might have a change of heart, until then WvW is all about roaming open world fighting.

Them fight with RK and their militia at and around the bridge to south camp just now yo!

Cod on Cod.3694:

Evalana.5480:

What is this thread? I don’t even…. I am speechless. We are ALL delusional, Alissa isn’t even in this matchup. Roaming doesn’t exist for anyone. Again, all the solo roamers complaining about x server not having solo roamers…. my head is going to explode. This thread, omg. I am so dumbfounded. Wow. Wow….. woooooow. Just…..wow.

I need a drink.

Look at them. So kitten cute! Who’s a good boy!

Whaa?

#confused

Who is kitten cute?

I am certainly not a good boy, LOL!

Jaxs.5830:

Did your change of heart come while playing on one of the only three servers that have a reason to play for PPT? In other games I would agree with you, but not in GW2, the system is too broken. There is not enough off-hour population to support enough balanced servers for the much larger NA population. If everyone lumped up to make balanced servers based on the availability of off-hour population, all of the NA folks would spend most of their time in the upcoming overflow map.

When close match-ups become the norm rather than a once in a blue moon event, I might have a change of heart, until then WvW is all about roaming open world fighting.

Fair enough. And the answer to your question is “yes.” But BG has had some very close matches with SoR and JQ in recent months so I suppose I have had a very different experience of WvW.

Israel.7056:

Jedge.3619:

I run full zerker shatter mesmer in wvw. I think that the prismatic understanding builds are way too forgiving and easy to play : )

That 20/20/30/0/0 mesmer build is nasty though.

I’ve used it a lot before, it is an extremely good dueling and 1vX build.

Shoutouts to Sparkalicious (SOR) and Ted (Magg). Were fun duels yesterday : )

Also, my funeral:

Rennoko.5731:

Dabachelor.1736:

Every thief I fight on both sides have perplexity runes!

I fought several thieves in the dueling area last night that were not running perplexity. As much crying is going on in the forums right now it should be noted that I met several nice folks from OPP, so apparently their loud forum minority isn’t representative of the guild as a whole.

I haven’t have a thief take more fights off me than I took off him in a really long time, so that was refreshing.

If you don’ t like the condi meta, run the -condi food, and even the runes if you want to really stick it to them. Don’t run your 10% crit and 100 precision food and cry that perplexity engineers are owning your face. Everyone know the runes are out of line and will get nerfed, but you have to live with it until they do.

Also, this goes for Mag folks… why on earth would you expect fair fights against servers that massively outnumber you? Who cares if you can 1v1 them…. they have enough people to 2v1 our entire server…. so why wouldn’t they?

I personally will go enjoy the 1v1 duels at the windmill if I want a fair fight, and continue to roam and hope that my smaller group/solo can take the outnumbered fight I am guarateed to face. What fun is roaming if it is always fair? Then you never have that spectacular fight you won against all odds.

Excellent post good sir. /Respect

evrilysis.8549:

Downed/dead players = 0 DPS.

This

Jaxs.5830:

Israel.7056:

Jaxs.5830:

It just so happens that only one of the items in the list above has nothing to do with personal skill and is entirely outside of any one persons control. It is the least personal form of winning in the game.

WvW is more about working together as a server. I didn’t always see it that way but I’ve really had a change of heart over time. Now if I’m leading our group in WvW I’ll try to steer it towards making ourselves helpful to whatever the rest of our server is trying to achieve on the map.

Did your change of heart come while playing on one of the only three servers that have a reason to play for PPT? In other games I would agree with you, but not in GW2, the system is too broken. There is not enough off-hour population to support enough balanced servers for the much larger NA population. If everyone lumped up to make balanced servers based on the availability of off-hour population, all of the NA folks would spend most of their time in the upcoming overflow map.

When close match-ups become the norm rather than a once in a blue moon event, I might have a change of heart, until then WvW is all about roaming open world fighting.

This. I’ve found that no matter how hard a group may play for any given week, I would estimate that 95%+ of Mag match outcomes are predetermined by sheer coverage difference between servers we face, with individual player and group skill having relatively little impact on outcome.

As long as coverage matters dramatically more than skill for PPT, I have no real motivation to participate “how Anet intended” chasing PPT, bashing on doors for PvD or sitting on siege for hours.

I think maybe your (Isreal) BG perspective is different, since you normally (almost always) have a good outcome in terms of your server’s ability to gain PPT. However, come to Mag for a bit and see how different it is when you consistently outplay groups twice your size in primetime only to watch a huge point deficit drag your server down on off-hours because some clueless bearbow PvDers beat down doors with no defenders while you sleep, or dramatically defend a keep with inferior numbers and/or outnumbered and watch the rest of the BL turn the color of your opponent by spare opponents breaking down doors around the BL.

Then wake up the next day and find every keep and tower held by then opponents in every BL upgraded with full siege and manned by overnight/early morning scouts. PPT just means nothing to us Mag at this point.

Sometimes its just depressing that, for a game with such a large NA audience, most of the matches are pre-determined by the dramatically fewer oceanic players who play on these servers. In that sense, any 1 oceanic player on a server is probably worth close to 10 NA players in terms of their value for protecting PPT. There’s only so many oceanic players and naturally (like most people), they’ve bandwagoned onto servers with already-winning records for an easier time achieving personal rewards.

Buzzcrave.6197:

You don’t get the point here. There is no way mag can bring up that number that your server have 24/7, outside of NA prime Mag is pretty much dead. Mag doesn’t have the coverage nor the numbers, so instead of playing the spamming 1 game, some of us try a different method. It does work at times, but when it is against a 50 man PVT melee in a 80 man blob, it’s hard to crack. One mistake, and we’re wiped. While you guys can have as many mistake as you want, but your numbers will carry you with the fight. And with the broken chain ressing mechanism, its even worst.

And if I take your suggestion, and make all the guild do PVT, do you think a 25 PVT can win against 50 PVT in a 80 man blob? Coverage yo. Much strong. Many people. Wow.

So your argument against PVT is that it’s too good? Bad argument is bad.

Also as has been mentioned it is possible to defeat greater numbers. That’s where the skill that you seem to be trying to imply is non existent in T1 comes in. It’s about your forces sticking tight to the commander tag and moving and positioning so you can cut the tail and whittle down the opposition while avoiding the bulk of the opposing forces’ AoEs. It’s about having the right group composition and running synergistic builds. It’s about having survivability so you don’t become rally bait.

There is a depth here that you are purposely ignoring with your ‘lol spam 1 moar bads’ replies. If you like small scale pvp more then that’s well and good but some of us enjoy mass GvG; neither one requires more or less skill, just different ones.

Edit:
For the record I don’t know anyone that rolls full PVT gear in every slot. Most of the builds I look at tend to have a core of PVT then round out the other stats as required.

Deathtouch, you could always move to a server where that won’t happen.

If you choose to play on a server that can’t compete 24/7 then that’s on you.

Mag- bg you only have numbers
Bg-deal with it. This is why we are better than you.

Pretty much sums this up

Israel.7056:

Deathtouch, you could always move to a server where that won’t happen.

If you choose to play on a server that can’t compete 24/7 then that’s on you.

But I (and I think I can safely say I speak for AoN) don’t play WvW for the PPT. We’re in it because we love being outnumbered and having really challenging fights.

Now, if the gamemode promoted repeatedly winning outnumbered fights somehow leading to us having a chance at winning server match-ups, then I personally would view that as an ideal system and I think we’d all love playing toward an objective-oriented goal at that point in time. If skill of players translated into which server won the week’s match-up, then that would really be an ideal system in my opinion.

Right now though, we have to make a choice given Anet’s design decisions. Either face consistent, challenging outnumbered fights but lose the PPT fight every week, or join a zerg server and play for PPT but feel like we’re steamrolling over people through sheer numbers advantage. And there’s no question we’d rather have the former than the latter.

I think the thing that stands out, though, is that not many people think like us. Most people would prefer to run in a zergball of 80 and 111111 with no real personal responsibility as long as there is a karma/loot/dolyak finisher carrot at the end of their efforts. And that’s exactly the type of playstyle Anet is tailoring GW2 toward.

I don’t get all these “roamers” complaining that they don’t get good fights in WvW. If you want good small scale fights go do PvP.

deathTouch.9706:

Blah blah blah blah blah PPT blah blah blah blah.

DeathTouch actually explained Maguuma’s attitude towards PPT perfectly here, and it’s absolutely true. We’ve long abandoned the PPT game because it wasn’t worth the effort. There in’t a single server on the same level as Maguuma. In the PPT game, everyone either completely rolls us over or we would completely roll them over. There hasn’t been a close matchup with Maguuma in it in a very very long time. But at the end of the day we’d prefer to lose the “war” and have realms like BG and SoR who actually show up and fight. (Even if it’s in overwhelming numbers and ya’ll’re stinky and poopy and bad.)

When we found out that there was a possibility of us making gold league, we put on our try-hard pants and played the PPT game really hard. Even though we have absolutely no business playing WvW against T1 servers, we went for it. As soon as we clinched the 6th seed we turned in our Flame Rams and immediately went back to our old ways.

My guild doesn’t really even go for territory anymore. We roam around looking for your blobs to try and break open. Most of the time when we do take something, it’s in an effort to get you guys to pay attention to us come out and play. (Why else would we set up trebs in the middle of an open field? :P)

Maguuma knows that we’re not going to win the PPT game against you guys unless Australia collectively decides to transfer, so we’re just going to keep doing our thing: looking for fights on the road, in the field, in the ruins, and on the forums. ‘cuz we don’t want first place. We don’t want your fancy Golden Dolyak finishers. We want YOUR DELICIOUS LOOT BAGS!

sweg

deathTouch.9706:

But I (and I think I can safely say I speak for AoN) don’t play WvW for the PPT.

Speak for yourself. I’m spending the rest of the week sitting on a cannon.

Mag does care about PPT – until it’s time for gold league qualifiers

we’ll be here with yall ~every season~

Ricey.3821:

I don’t get all these “roamers” complaining that they don’t get good fights in WvW. If you want good small scale fights go do PvP.

Wvw roaming is pvp… If you meant spvp well that gets completely boring after a while. The same case comes from wvw zerging. Solo/small group roaming is the most fun aspect of pvp in this game imo.

Israel.7056:

Deathtouch, you could always move to a server where that won’t happen.

If you choose to play on a server that can’t compete 24/7 then that’s on you.

Mag had the option to be top of silver league but the consensus was we would prefer to play out manned. At the same time, we were hoping to come across more organized guilds in the T1 servers who would welcome the challenge of facing a few of our guilds in GvGs.

This is just the culture that has developed on this server. We went into PPT tryhard mode to secure our spot in Gold league and that is honestly the hardest I have seen this server try to PPT. We look for good fights and respect opponents who do the same, especially those willing to indulge on the GvG side of things.

EDIT: I should also add that our roaming population is consistent during the week and one of the major benefits to small man roaming guilds on this server is that they enjoy virtually no queues.

Ricey.3821:

I don’t get all these “roamers” complaining that they don’t get good fights in WvW. If you want good small scale fights go do PvP.

Show me how we can 8v20 on a large open-field sPvP map and I’m there.

And it’s not just the imbalanced fights. It’s roaming around, cresting a hill and seeing a big group in front of you and having to make quick decisions about what you want to do with it. It’s the impromptu nature of WvW that I love too, something that, for me, is a bit stale in sPvP type arenas that I have been doing for close to 7 years now if you include other games.

You need to get the fact right a little bit …

Zerg / blob around here is around 40 – 60 … not 80

it’s very hard to get more than 50.. Half of guilds around here prefer to run tagless …

some do roaming and their own things …. Maybe SoR can get 80. their players are

willing to stick togeter.

And There are no lagging at all unless it’s 3 Blobs in one place Bg SoR Jq..

if you have lag then that’s your own problem …

deathTouch.9706:

Right now though, we have to make a choice given Anet’s design decisions. Either face consistent, challenging outnumbered fights but lose the PPT fight every week, or join a zerg server and play for PPT but feel like we’re steamrolling over people through sheer numbers advantage. And there’s no question we’d rather have the former than the latter.

I think that’s a false dichotomy. But it also seems like a manufactured psychological win-win. If you lose no one cares because no one expects you to win and if you win you get to gloat and feel superior because no one expects you to win. See what I mean? That’s the psychological advantage of being the underdog and I think why so many people like to see themselves cast in that role.

I can understand this. There’s a psychological pressure in being the top dog and the favorite to win. Every win is taken for granted, no one is ever surprised or impressed. Every loss is seen as being an indication of weakness or lack of skill. Losers deride winners with bitterness and resentment and winners are hardly ever popular. There are few things that humans enjoy more than seeing a winner disgraced. Misery loves company as they say.

I’d still rather be in a position to win. I’d rather know that my side has the strength to come out victorious. It’s nice to be the underdog but I feel that it’s more frustrating to feel that my efforts are ultimately going to be for nothing. If that frustration ever outweighs the self-satisfaction you get to feel from being the underdog I would advise that you consider a transfer.

robocafaz.9017:

deathTouch.9706:

Blah blah blah blah blah PPT blah blah blah blah.

DeathTouch actually explained Maguuma’s attitude towards PPT perfectly here, and it’s absolutely true. We’ve long abandoned the PPT game because it wasn’t worth the effort. There in’t a single server on the same level as Maguuma. In the PPT game, everyone either completely rolls us over or we would completely roll them over. There hasn’t been a close matchup with Maguuma in it in a very very long time. But at the end of the day we’d prefer to lose the “war” and have realms like BG and SoR who actually show up and fight.

snip for brevity

Maguuma knows that we’re not going to win the PPT game against you guys unless Australia collectively decides to transfer, so we’re just going to keep doing our thing: looking for fights on the road, in the field, in the ruins, and on the forums. ‘cuz we don’t want first place. We don’t want your fancy Golden Dolyak finishers. We want YOUR DELICIOUS LOOT BAGS!

sweg

Pinko.2076:

Mag does care about PPT – when it’s time for gold league qualifiers

we’ll be here with yall ~every season~

This is what #magswag is all about. Respect.

Ricey.3821:

I don’t get all these “roamers” complaining that they don’t get good fights in WvW. If you want good small scale fights go do PvP.

sPvP doesn’t offer the same diversity as WvW. The gear is too limited and the class balance is even more out-of-whack. Also there is still zero incentive to play. The rankings don’t even mean anything anymore thanks to that nasty glory farming exploit.

WvW is special in the way that the consumables, gear, and stacking bonuses allow so many different builds to be viable. I don’t remember who said it—one of my old Warrior podcast buddies—but he put it best: “People can be so overpowered, it practically balances it out. Because _everyone can be overpowered!”

Pinko.2076:

Mag does care about PPT – until it’s time for gold league qualifiers

we’ll be here with yall ~every season~

Maybe u should move to SoR. They claim they dont play for PPT neither but they at least can put numbers in open field fight.

eithinan.9841:

This is what #magswag is all about. Respect.

Yeah, for real, this page of the thread got extremely ‘Football Movie’-esque.

I can’t help but wonder about the frightful number of posts this thread would have had, had it been Maguuma in the place of SoS last week back when SoR was losing it’s mind on the forums.
The fact that you are at almost 700 posts just from BG and Mag, it quite astounding.
I’m looking forward to the BG reaction when Maguuma declares victory based on their superior roaming.

Sunt.6835:

Maybe u should move to SoR. They claim they dont play for PPT neither but they at least can put numbers in open field fight.

You’re never gonna get it, are you? Maguuma isn’t just about chest-pounding, PvF, and complaining. Maguuma is about chest-pounding, PvF, and complaining together.

You can’t find brotherly swag like that anywhere else!

robocafaz.9017:

eithinan.9841:

This is what #magswag is all about. Respect.

Yeah, for real, this page of the thread got extremely ‘Football Movie’-esque.

The correct term for this is “World of Cardboard” speech. Look it up on tvtropes

Chris.3290:

I’m looking forward to the BG reaction when Maguuma declares victory based on their superior roaming.

I claimed victory over this matchup in the name of Maguuma like last Wednesday.

robocafaz.9017:

Chris.3290:

It’s already Wednesday, is Maguuma ready to declare victory yet?

For next week’s matchup? Yeah, calling it now: Maguuma will be Blue team with 432,123 points at the end. Mal’ganis will be Green team with 21,231 points. Yak’s Bend will be Yellow team with a participation award.

… in fact, it looks like I was responding to you!

My prediction was off a little in that Maguuma is the Red team this week, but the rest is still looking pretty good!

deathTouch.9706:

I think the thing that stands out, though, is that not many people think like us. Most people would prefer to run in a zergball of 80 and 111111 with no real personal responsibility as long as there is a karma/loot/dolyak finisher carrot at the end of their efforts. And that’s exactly the type of playstyle Anet is tailoring GW2 toward.

You really unfairly characterize the large group play in this game when you say there’s no skill involved. You also seem to be saying in your last few posts how terrible it is to be outnumbered and that it’s disheartening, but that you prefer to be outnumbered. It’s a confusing read.

But tanks for the post (MLP right?).

Chris.3290:

Look it up on tvtropes

It’s 4:45 PM here and I intend to go to bed in the next 12 hours. Ain’t no way in hell I’m going to tvtropes!

robocafaz.9017:

Chris.3290:

Look it up on tvtropes

It’s 4:45 PM here and I intend to go to bed in the next 12 hours. Ain’t no way in hell I’m going to tvtropes!

What is tvtropes?

Israel.7056:

deathTouch.9706:

Right now though, we have to make a choice given Anet’s design decisions. Either face consistent, challenging outnumbered fights but lose the PPT fight every week, or join a zerg server and play for PPT but feel like we’re steamrolling over people through sheer numbers advantage. And there’s no question we’d rather have the former than the latter.

I think that’s a false dichotomy. But it also seems like a manufactured psychological win-win. If you lose no one cares because no one expects you to win and if you win you get to gloat and feel superior because no one expects you to win. See what I mean? That’s the psychological advantage of being the underdog and I think why so many people like to see themselves cast in that role.

I can understand this. There’s a psychological pressure in being the top dog and the favorite to win. Every win is taken for granted, no one is ever surprised or impressed. Every loss is seen as being an indication of weakness or lack of skill. Losers deride winners with bitterness and resentment and winners are hardly ever popular. There are few things that humans enjoy more than seeing a winner disgraced. Misery loves company as they say.

I’d still rather be in a position to win. I’d rather know that my side has the strength to come out victorious. It’s nice to be the underdog but I feel that it’s more frustrating to feel that my efforts are ultimately going to be for nothing. If that frustration ever outweighs the self-satisfaction you get to feel from being the underdog I would advise that you consider a transfer.

And I’d rather run with a group that wants to take on any other roaming group of similar size/larger size on any other server and be confident we’d come out on top, or as an 8 man group chop a 25 man group into little bits until we wipe them. The way I view victories is on the battlefield, when players are actually engaging each other in a test of skill and coordination, rather than the artificial scorecard at the end of the week which, as most people agree, is mainly influenced by number of warm bodies on each server and how much PvD they are able to accomplish during oceanic hours.

It’s all in what you’re looking to get out of the game. I feel we just have differing metrics on how we evaluate our personal performance.

Execrable.1064:

deathTouch.9706:

I think the thing that stands out, though, is that not many people think like us. Most people would prefer to run in a zergball of 80 and 111111 with no real personal responsibility as long as there is a karma/loot/dolyak finisher carrot at the end of their efforts. And that’s exactly the type of playstyle Anet is tailoring GW2 toward.

You really unfairly characterize the large group play in this game when you say there’s no skill involved. You also seem to be saying in your last few posts how terrible it is to be outnumbered and that it’s disheartening, but that you prefer to be outnumbered. It’s a confusing read.

But tanks for the post (MLP right?).

To clarify things a bit, we’re disheartened by the server metric system that Anet came up with and wish it would place heavier emphasis on the skill of the players on each server. Most of us on Mag have (outside of qualifier matches) come to the general consensus to ignore it and focus on really challenging outmanned fights.

I’m not complaining about being in Gold, in fact I’m really glad we’re here instead of silver. What I do wish is that, overall, the PPT game was less focused on pure coverage (especially oceanic coverage) and more focused on skillful play.

And my 80 man zergfest comment was a bit of a hyperbole, but I think the general point still stands. I personally believe anything past 30 and most of the “skill” comes down to following a dorito/ghost, dropping water fields, earthshakering the marked target, and then continuing to follow the dorito. I’d be willing to stake that lesser-skilled players prefer to ball up in large zergs and wear PVT because, outside of those zergs they are run-down like gazelle on open plains. Their survivability dramatically increases if they can benefit from massive healing and less focus fire as a result of a bunch of other friendly players around them.

And yeah, former MLP commander

deathTouch.9706:

Israel.7056:

Deathtouch, you could always move to a server where that won’t happen.

If you choose to play on a server that can’t compete 24/7 then that’s on you.

But I (and I think I can safely say I speak for AoN) don’t play WvW for the PPT. We’re in it because we love being outnumbered and having really challenging fights.

Now, if the gamemode promoted repeatedly winning outnumbered fights somehow leading to us having a chance at winning server match-ups, then I personally would view that as an ideal system and I think we’d all love playing toward an objective-oriented goal at that point in time. If skill of players translated into which server won the week’s match-up, then that would really be an ideal system in my opinion.

It may not be obvious in lower tiers, but in tier 1, the recent bloodlust addition has made small roaming teams really valuable for a T1 server to win in a T1 matchup. If you can continuously win outnumbered and allow your server to keep the bloodlust (or occupy the focus of opponent’s large guild forces in the area like oPP did some time ago), the T1 server will be able to pull ahead in T1 matches. I know BG made a strong point in fighting for bloodlust and our roamers have really contributed significantly.

I know SoR and JQ also tried to compete with us but they don’t have the amount of skilled roamers like we do. So I guess if you truly think winning small fights while contributing to a server wide objective is an ideal system, I would suggest you considering transferring to either SoR or JQ. You would get plenty of fights against roamers from BG and your winning may actually contribute to something greater besides the fun of fighting:)

Chris.3290:

I can’t help but wonder about the frightful number of posts this thread would have had, had it been Maguuma in the place of SoS last week back when SoR was losing it’s mind on the forums.
The fact that you are at almost 700 posts just from BG and Mag, it quite astounding.
I’m looking forward to the BG reaction when Maguuma declares victory based on their superior roaming.

All i have seen most of time were like a couple mags ran into bg area and got ganked by around 5+ random ppl that just ran around the map….

Execrable.1064:

deathTouch.9706:

I think the thing that stands out, though, is that not many people think like us. Most people would prefer to run in a zergball of 80 and 111111 with no real personal responsibility as long as there is a karma/loot/dolyak finisher carrot at the end of their efforts. And that’s exactly the type of playstyle Anet is tailoring GW2 toward.

You really unfairly characterize the large group play in this game when you say there’s no skill involved. You also seem to be saying in your last few posts how terrible it is to be outnumbered and that it’s disheartening, but that you prefer to be outnumbered. It’s a confusing read.

But tanks for the post (MLP right?).

Being outnumbered has different scales. 8-10 man group vs 20 is viable depending on relative skill levels involved. 8-10 man vs 30 to 40? Definitely not fun. AoN is a guild that wants challenge and there is no challenge in terms of skill in outnumbering an opponent.

Given the choice of the two, at least being outnumbered offers the possibility of peeling a larger group to more manageable chunks. That’s what successful roamers try to do.

@ Entioch/Jax; I’d say we roughly were 50/50 like Entioch said, a few months back ago! Great fights and I’ll always miss those!

@Israell; it’s really unfortunate we took our break right when you joined us.. we would love to have you around again. You’re definitely right, I don’t care about “cheese” or any of these subjective crap that matter only to serve ego purposes. To be effective is my only concern. And I am pretty uptight about builds to be honest… if one of my members will refuse to run a build simply because it’s “cheese” when we all consider that it’s the most effective right now for our group, then I’d probably kick him.

@Cliques; great fun! Excellent fights and hope to see you again.

@oPP; wow! Great fights even if we outnumbered you guys (at least when I was on).

deathTouch.9706:

And I’d rather run with a group that can be confident to take on any other roaming group of similar size/larger size on any other server and be confident we’d come out on top. The way I view victories is on the battlefield, when players are actually engaging each other in a test of skill and coordination, rather than the artificial scorecard at the end of the week which, as most people agree, is mainly influenced by number of warm bodies on each server and how much PvD they are able to accomplish during oceanic hours.

It’s all in what you’re looking to get out of the game. I feel we just have differing metrics on how we evaluate our personal performance.

I think you could just as easily find what you’re looking for on BG but the difference would be that you’d have the support of a server with 24/7 presence at your back as well.

I know from personal experience that finding an outnumbered fight against SoR or JQ is never difficult and they’ve got people on at all hours.

This thread’s starting to get really civil and it’s making me uncomfortable.

Convenant.7092:

@Israell; it’s really unfortunate we took our break right when you joined us.. we would love to have you around again. You’re definitely right, I don’t care about “cheese” or any of these subjective crap that matter only to serve ego purposes. To be effective is my only concern. And I am pretty uptight about builds to be honest… if one of my members will refuse to run a build simply because it’s “cheese” when we all consider that it’s the most effective right now for our group, then I’d probably kick him.

Can always come to BG

And yeah man you really earned my utmost respect as a leader and as a theorycrafter. No moves were ever off the table, nothing was ever considered off-limits or unacceptable if it meant a potential increase in effectiveness from your group. You always knew what you wanted your members to be running and you didn’t tolerate insubordination and I thought it was brilliant.

Too bad you guys just wanted to play Smite when I was there lol.

Reslinal.2359:

deathTouch.9706:

Israel.7056:

Deathtouch, you could always move to a server where that won’t happen.

If you choose to play on a server that can’t compete 24/7 then that’s on you.

But I (and I think I can safely say I speak for AoN) don’t play WvW for the PPT. We’re in it because we love being outnumbered and having really challenging fights.

Now, if the gamemode promoted repeatedly winning outnumbered fights somehow leading to us having a chance at winning server match-ups, then I personally would view that as an ideal system and I think we’d all love playing toward an objective-oriented goal at that point in time. If skill of players translated into which server won the week’s match-up, then that would really be an ideal system in my opinion.

It may not be obvious in lower tiers, but in tier 1, the recent bloodlust addition has made small roaming teams really valuable for a T1 server to win in a T1 matchup. If you can continuously win outnumbered and allow your server to keep the bloodlust (or occupy the focus of opponent’s large guild forces in the area like oPP did some time ago), the T1 server will be able to pull ahead in T1 matches. I know BG made a strong point in fighting for bloodlust and our roamers have really contributed significantly.

I know SoR and JQ also tried to compete with us but they don’t have the amount of skilled roamers like we do. So I guess if you truly think winning small fights while contributing to a server wide objective is an ideal system, I would suggest you considering transferring to either SoR or JQ. You would get plenty of fights against roamers from BG and your winning may actually contribute to something greater besides the fun of fighting:)

We do try to secure bloodlust for our team, and it usually works ok for the most part and can get decent fights, until a bored BG or SoR zerg comes crashing in with 60 people because there’s nothing left for them to contest on the map cause Mag doesn’t have any coverage to pressure elsewhere. There’s certainly no way we can do it on more than one BL, that’s pretty much out of the question.

deathTouch.9706:

Reslinal.2359:

deathTouch.9706:

Israel.7056:

Deathtouch, you could always move to a server where that won’t happen.

If you choose to play on a server that can’t compete 24/7 then that’s on you.

But I (and I think I can safely say I speak for AoN) don’t play WvW for the PPT. We’re in it because we love being outnumbered and having really challenging fights.

Now, if the gamemode promoted repeatedly winning outnumbered fights somehow leading to us having a chance at winning server match-ups, then I personally would view that as an ideal system and I think we’d all love playing toward an objective-oriented goal at that point in time. If skill of players translated into which server won the week’s match-up, then that would really be an ideal system in my opinion.

It may not be obvious in lower tiers, but in tier 1, the recent bloodlust addition has made small roaming teams really valuable for a T1 server to win in a T1 matchup. If you can continuously win outnumbered and allow your server to keep the bloodlust (or occupy the focus of opponent’s large guild forces in the area like oPP did some time ago), the T1 server will be able to pull ahead in T1 matches. I know BG made a strong point in fighting for bloodlust and our roamers have really contributed significantly.

I know SoR and JQ also tried to compete with us but they don’t have the amount of skilled roamers like we do. So I guess if you truly think winning small fights while contributing to a server wide objective is an ideal system, I would suggest you considering transferring to either SoR or JQ. You would get plenty of fights against roamers from BG and your winning may actually contribute to something greater besides the fun of fighting:)

We do try to secure bloodlust for our team, and it usually works ok for the most part and we usually get decent fights, until a bored BG or SoR zerg comes crashing in with 60 people because there’s nothing left for them to contest on the map cause Mag doesn’t have any coverage to pressure elsewhere. There’s no way we can do it on more than one BL though, that’s pretty much out of the question.

I guess I did not make my point clear. What I am saying is bloodlust actually plays a much more important role in deciding who is going to win in a T1 match-up than in lower tiers where coverage completely dictates results. As a result, small team roaming and winning outnumbered fights in T1 actually contributes significantly to a server’s success.

So if you are looking for an ideal system where “gamemode promoted repeatedly winning outnumbered fights somehow leading to us having a chance at winning server match-ups”, you should consider transferring to a T1 server like JQ or SoR. You will get plenty of fights, both outnumberer and against skilled roamers in BG, while also contribute significantly to your server’s goal of winning T1 matches.

I’ve never seen such walls of text in response to mag trolls

t1 is much more uncomfortable with us than i thought they would be rofl

Israel.7056:

deathTouch.9706:

And I’d rather run with a group that can be confident to take on any other roaming group of similar size/larger size on any other server and be confident we’d come out on top. The way I view victories is on the battlefield, when players are actually engaging each other in a test of skill and coordination, rather than the artificial scorecard at the end of the week which, as most people agree, is mainly influenced by number of warm bodies on each server and how much PvD they are able to accomplish during oceanic hours.

It’s all in what you’re looking to get out of the game. I feel we just have differing metrics on how we evaluate our personal performance.

I think you could just as easily find what you’re looking for on BG but the difference would be that you’d have the support of a server with 24/7 presence at your back as well.

I know from personal experience that finding an outnumbered fight against SoR or JQ is never difficult and they’ve got people on at all hours.

Yeah I have no doubts you can find outmanned fights on BG, I just love that you can find them constantly on Mag

We also do play for some PPT (well honestly its more for the bags) like keep defense/attack etc. if we’re in the nearby area and there’s another Mag guild we trust in the area, that type of play just doesn’t dictate how we normally play the game.

Reslinal.2359:

deathTouch.9706:

Reslinal.2359:

deathTouch.9706:

Israel.7056:

Deathtouch, you could always move to a server where that won’t happen.

If you choose to play on a server that can’t compete 24/7 then that’s on you.

But I (and I think I can safely say I speak for AoN) don’t play WvW for the PPT. We’re in it because we love being outnumbered and having really challenging fights.

Now, if the gamemode promoted repeatedly winning outnumbered fights somehow leading to us having a chance at winning server match-ups, then I personally would view that as an ideal system and I think we’d all love playing toward an objective-oriented goal at that point in time. If skill of players translated into which server won the week’s match-up, then that would really be an ideal system in my opinion.

It may not be obvious in lower tiers, but in tier 1, the recent bloodlust addition has made small roaming teams really valuable for a T1 server to win in a T1 matchup. If you can continuously win outnumbered and allow your server to keep the bloodlust (or occupy the focus of opponent’s large guild forces in the area like oPP did some time ago), the T1 server will be able to pull ahead in T1 matches. I know BG made a strong point in fighting for bloodlust and our roamers have really contributed significantly.

I know SoR and JQ also tried to compete with us but they don’t have the amount of skilled roamers like we do. So I guess if you truly think winning small fights while contributing to a server wide objective is an ideal system, I would suggest you considering transferring to either SoR or JQ. You would get plenty of fights against roamers from BG and your winning may actually contribute to something greater besides the fun of fighting:)

We do try to secure bloodlust for our team, and it usually works ok for the most part and we usually get decent fights, until a bored BG or SoR zerg comes crashing in with 60 people because there’s nothing left for them to contest on the map cause Mag doesn’t have any coverage to pressure elsewhere. There’s no way we can do it on more than one BL though, that’s pretty much out of the question.

I guess I did not make my point clear. What I am saying is bloodlust actually plays a much more important role in deciding who is going to win in a T1 match-up than in lower tiers where coverage completely dictates results. As a result, small team roaming and winning outnumbered fights in T1 actually contributes significantly to a server’s success.

So if you are looking for an ideal system where “gamemode promoted repeatedly winning outnumbered fights somehow leading to us having a chance at winning server match-ups”, you should consider transferring to a T1 server like JQ or SoR. You will get plenty of fights, both outnumberer and against skilled roamers in BG, while also contribute significantly to your server’s goal of winning T1 matches.

Right, it can have an advantage, but simply securing it and holding onto at least one as Mag facing SoR and BG can be a pretty big challenge.

Overall I think bloodlust was a not-horrible attempt at balancing coverage out a tiny but, but the implementation still favors the higher coverage servers who can afford extra players to deny bloodlust to one or more opponents.

Israel.7056:

I think you could just as easily find what you’re looking for on BG but the difference would be that you’d have the support of a server with 24/7 presence at your back as well.

I know from personal experience that finding an outnumbered fight against SoR or JQ is never difficult and they’ve got people on at all hours.

Perhaps I am wrong, but right now BG seems too congested to roam on. Every time you turn around you seem like you would have friendlies adding on your fight or acting as rally bait, plus you would always be waiting on someone to get through que.

deathTouch.9706:

---

Reslinal:
I guess I did not make my point clear. What I am saying is bloodlust actually plays a much more important role in deciding who is going to win in a T1 match-up than in lower tiers where coverage completely dictates results. As a result, small team roaming and winning outnumbered fights in T1 actually contributes significantly to a server’s success.

So if you are looking for an ideal system where “gamemode promoted repeatedly winning outnumbered fights somehow leading to us having a chance at winning server match-ups”, you should consider transferring to a T1 server like JQ or SoR. You will get plenty of fights, both outnumberer and against skilled roamers in BG, while also contribute significantly to your server’s goal of winning T1 matches.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————-

Right, it can have an advantage, but simply securing it and holding onto at least one as Mag facing SoR and BG can be a pretty big challenge.

Overall I think bloodlust was a not-horrible attempt at balancing coverage out a tiny but, but the implementation still favors the higher coverage servers who can afford extra players to deny bloodlust to one or more opponents.

What I am trying to say is holding bloodlust won’t help Mag beating BG, but may actually help JQ to beat BG if you guys are on JQ. So if you want to make a difference to a server’s performance as a roamer (your ideal gamemode), you should consider transferring to a T1 server where coverage problem is less severe. You will still get plenty of fights as you are on Mag, but now your winning will actually have a greater purpose.