Underworld vs Ruins of Surmia vs Fort Ranik

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Posted by: Cradorell.3941

Cradorell.3941

20 RiOT + 5 VcY vs FR 50+
Better quality coming soon… enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o74Mgg_gYk0

Óne Pulse – OP – Raid Leader

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Posted by: kribre.9683

kribre.9683

@ aZm at hills we got warned by our commander that was on inner about a big FR blob, we saw u guys outside/ontop, the outer gate got repaired and we didn’t have supply at that time. Dont see the point of waiting outside the gate for your 20 to charge into us, for having RED, BL and LEAD follow 30sec behind u, when we only were about 15 ourself.

But as other people say, we are looking for guild vs guilds this week also! Would be nice to fight u guys with equal numbers as you guys seem good
Would also like to fight RED, BL, LEAD and the other LDF or something similar to that

If u Underworld got any guilds that can field 15-25 people we would also like to fight u, still havn’t seen a Underworld guild running :/

Tripilios
[VII] – Seventh Legion – retired
[Dius] – Semper Dius – Kodash

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Posted by: flameinabox.8913

flameinabox.8913

There is a gap between words and actions. It seems that the FIRE is fearing our storm. You got a big group, we got a guild group, you flee …. ok very nice, but don’t say we’re the runners

On behalf of FIRE I apologise we we’re unable to attend that fight. Our original push towards Hills was to assist the commander inside however his assault was unsuccessful and the gates we’re closed, so it was impossible for us to get in. All we could see was a 50 million man blob so it seemed rather silly to proceed with a pointless push, so we turned around and merrily skipped away. If we had noticed you guys had veiled out and rushed us I’m sure we would have stayed and played for a while until the other 50 FR ran in for the kill >.>

Sorry we couldn’t stay but we hope to see your storm again some day soon, we have our umbrellas at the ready so we will be ready next time!!! Hope to see you Azm’s soon <3

Much love from [FIRE]

AG-Commander: Mesmer Mukuro
Flare[FIRE] #1 Fabulous Mesmer-
Official Flare PR Manager

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Posted by: kribre.9683

kribre.9683

I love u Mesmer.
Ur words are sparkling like flames, will u marry me?

Tripilios
[VII] – Seventh Legion – retired
[Dius] – Semper Dius – Kodash

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Posted by: flameinabox.8913

flameinabox.8913

I love u Mesmer.
Ur words are sparkling like flames, will u marry me?

My words are a passionate fire,
They burn as bright as day.
I must say I love you to Trippy,
but unfortunately I am not gay…

AG-Commander: Mesmer Mukuro
Flare[FIRE] #1 Fabulous Mesmer-
Official Flare PR Manager

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Posted by: kribre.9683

kribre.9683

But my Asura is a girl….
No matter how passionate ur wordas are sparkling with fire
Little Trippy will never get a stiffy
As I’m neither are gay

Tripilios
[VII] – Seventh Legion – retired
[Dius] – Semper Dius – Kodash

(edited by kribre.9683)

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Posted by: yroeht.5843

yroeht.5843

20 RiOT + 5 VcY vs FR 50+
Better quality coming soon… enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o74Mgg_gYk0

For kitten’s sake Crad, pay more attention, it has already been linked by Sceinna ;o

Necromancer – Xexa The Machine [RiOT] | Ruins of Surmia
http://www.thecivilrebels.com

(edited by yroeht.5843)

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Posted by: flameinabox.8913

flameinabox.8913

Yes that’s undeniable, but it’s not an aZm Blob
Don’t say FR is blobing when there are one guild and many pick up. I don’t know how your server works, but on FR we try to get one PU lead on each map.
Yesterday, we fought a blob too on your border (in your Bay) but it’s not a guild alliance or something so it’s not shamefull to blob with PU.

We don’t have 50-60 blobs (because that’s what it really is) covering each map at any time of the day. It’s not aZms fault, neither Ranik.. you guys are just ranked incredibly low. Reason can easily be found in the video I posted a few posts higher.

Ranik has an insane amount of people but none of them have a clue of what they’re doing (thank god they don’t o.o). We don’t have the people to cover multiple borders, this is why we are ticking last.. because RiOT hasn’t wiped a single time in a fair fight, hell.. we haven’t even met a good guild in either UW or RoS that gave us a challenge lol.

We even struggle to find anyone to GvG with.. :| which is pitty because GvG improves you a lot as a guild.

Do you mean ‘we haven’t even met a good guild in either UW or FR that gave us a challenge lol.’??

AG-Commander: Mesmer Mukuro
Flare[FIRE] #1 Fabulous Mesmer-
Official Flare PR Manager

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Posted by: kribre.9683

kribre.9683

Thanks for the fights at UW borderland tonight, SPGR, RDT and GROU

Tripilios
[VII] – Seventh Legion – retired
[Dius] – Semper Dius – Kodash

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Posted by: syphou.6320

syphou.6320

Yep nice fights but you were to many for us

Mesmer
[WAR]

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Posted by: yroeht.5843

yroeht.5843

Awww, this matchup is so much fun.

Necromancer – Xexa The Machine [RiOT] | Ruins of Surmia
http://www.thecivilrebels.com

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Posted by: JeroenXP.5364

JeroenXP.5364

Pffft both sides us those boring AC’s shooting through gates even when out numbered :P I can say a lot about how FR plays the last week but I wont, except I had to laugh a bit when FR got sandwiched on there BL by us and RoS at mid day > : ) That’s how UW felt the last days before the reset when we got sandwiched.

For the rest nice games and plz folks less AC’s more PvP

Kemy Support ele – Kesia Berserker War – Miruto Wolfhowl Berserker ranger:
Sakurashi Tank Mesmer – Cutie Pewpie Grenadier Engineer – Neesa Misaki Support Guard:
[Underworld]

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Posted by: Liquid Storm.8097

Liquid Storm.8097

Staff elementalist @ [SOUL]
Far Shiverpeaks EU
http://fspsoul.enjin.com/

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Posted by: Nymph of Meliai.6739

Nymph of Meliai.6739

BOO!!!!

I have had a blast on this match up…. was great fun successfully defending garrison on my own against 15-20 UW

Not many 1v1 fights though.

Also had great fun in one of the bl towers dodging 2 people chasing me before I finally mistimed a skill and got caught out… Still was good practice, good fun, and helped distract you long enough for the rest of RiOT to cap bay.

Nymeria Meliae | SoS
Acid Bath Babies Go Plop Plop [FizZ]

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Posted by: Epikindinos.9476

Epikindinos.9476

Hey guys been great WvWing. (No need for the “No guild can give us a challenge” bit though, didn’t expect it from sceinna :P )

SPGR thanks for the fights and hope to see you tonight too

Commander Jack Da Black/Kindinos[GRTS]
Greek Titans
Gunnars Hold

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Posted by: Sceinna.3561

Sceinna.3561

Hey guys been great WvWing. (No need for the “No guild can give us a challenge” bit though, didn’t expect it from sceinna :P )

SPGR thanks for the fights and hope to see you tonight too

Sorry I didn’t mean to come off as kitteny as I did there. It’s just that we haven’t really encountered anyone yet.. I should know how good SPGR is (seeing UW used to be my home server) but we haven’t spot you a single time yet in WvW..

(edited by Sceinna.3561)

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Posted by: kribre.9683

kribre.9683

It’s raining cow’s in EB now!!!!

Tripilios
[VII] – Seventh Legion – retired
[Dius] – Semper Dius – Kodash

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Posted by: Amshaa.7492

Amshaa.7492

18:00 GMT+1
FR BL

On the road to Hills north gate, 2 groups (or so, 10-12) of almighty RiOT got stomped by 2 groups (or so, 10-13) of Ranik’s Pugs. No siege assist, no guild group… I guess that might have been too much of challenge atm.
Can’t wait to see it in your next video

(if you can’t bring peace to the forum war then just spit some oil on the fire) :P

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Posted by: JeroenXP.5364

JeroenXP.5364

Wow… FR is winning the coward award this hour… every FR is running back to the zerg when you kite a few of them into a fair small group fight. Apparently the french prefer zerg lag fest fights i guess

Kemy Support ele – Kesia Berserker War – Miruto Wolfhowl Berserker ranger:
Sakurashi Tank Mesmer – Cutie Pewpie Grenadier Engineer – Neesa Misaki Support Guard:
[Underworld]

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Posted by: kribre.9683

kribre.9683

WOAH, that was a lot of action on RoS borderland tonight guys! Many nice fights, many awefull blob fights aswell :P but all in all a good night I had fun!

Tripilios
[VII] – Seventh Legion – retired
[Dius] – Semper Dius – Kodash

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Posted by: Liquid Storm.8097

Liquid Storm.8097

18:00 GMT+1
FR BL

On the road to Hills north gate, 2 groups (or so, 10-12) of almighty RiOT got stomped by 2 groups (or so, 10-13) of Ranik’s Pugs. No siege assist, no guild group… I guess that might have been too much of challenge atm.
Can’t wait to see it in your next video

(if you can’t bring peace to the forum war then just spit some oil on the fire) :P

Um… I hate to break your bubble but at 18:00 GMT+1 some of us were still at work. Or on the way home at least. And FR without siege?? Riiiight…

Anyway, it was wild in the RoS BL tonight. Can’t say I enjoyed lagwars2, but it made me giggle to see FR, despite their huge annoying effort and a gazillion arrow carts on outer walls, couldn’t cap Bay due to the application of the server patch. Nice timing Anet, I think RoS nearly died of laughter. ^^

Staff elementalist @ [SOUL]
Far Shiverpeaks EU
http://fspsoul.enjin.com/

(edited by Liquid Storm.8097)

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Posted by: Cradorell.3941

Cradorell.3941

Kudos to GuM on UW bl tonight. Your tough individuals to fight! As for FR… weve started calling you Vizunah 2.0

Óne Pulse – OP – Raid Leader

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Posted by: poisskai.8452

poisskai.8452

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Posted by: The Umpire.9510

The Umpire.9510

cheers to Underworld… you wanne get us from last night?…

xD

Ros showed you after we got our homeborder back how to play nightcapping, like last night hahahaha

sleep time for me now!! this night i will be back for more

we are 1 again and that with less numbers then both other servers…

respect for the few UW fellows who defended there keep in EB we needed 3 times to get that inner down because all the ac fire…

Fort rannick keep on running cowards!!… running in every keep and tower and build tons of ac’s keep up the good work frenchies lol….

Raidleader stikkomaniacs
Guild: SFRJ
Server: FSP

(edited by The Umpire.9510)

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Posted by: Shakki.3219

Shakki.3219

you are the best we got it the last 20 posts already.

Reaper – Anguîsh

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Posted by: Cameirus.8407

Cameirus.8407

Had fun last night in ros bl, found some great fights, though i have to say seiging up the supply camp to treb inner bay and camping the choke point with a massive zerg was kind of lame, but we eventually managed to get your seige down with several suicide charges!

I may not like seige wars, but FR putting a line of trebs on outer bay wall looked pretty impressive!

We had to keep porting between bay and hills to try to defend both, though i think we would have lost them at one point…..if not for that timely server reset (honestly we had nothing to do with that, those cookies we sent anet are totally unconnected… :p).

Good night last night. Would be nice to see more guild groups running outside the FR blob, but there are a few who do and well done for that, some good fights all round.

(edited by Cameirus.8407)

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Posted by: Liquid Storm.8097

Liquid Storm.8097

Cookies? I thought we agreed on cake!

Staff elementalist @ [SOUL]
Far Shiverpeaks EU
http://fspsoul.enjin.com/

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Posted by: Newagi.8056

Newagi.8056

Hey guys been great WvWing. (No need for the “No guild can give us a challenge” bit though, didn’t expect it from sceinna :P )

SPGR thanks for the fights and hope to see you tonight too

Sorry I didn’t mean to come off as kitteny as I did there. It’s just that we haven’t really encountered anyone yet.. I should know how good SPGR is (seeing UW used to be my home server) but we haven’t spot you a single time yet in WvW..

had the same impression of this sentence kindinos. but nice to see that i wasnt ment like that
@sceinna, dont know about SPGR but lots of our ppl are busy in rl atm.

Madness Rises [Rise] – Gunnar’s Hold [EU]
Nimodem / Sempros

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Posted by: yroeht.5843

yroeht.5843

@sceinna, dont know about SPGR but lots of our ppl are busy in rl atm.

Feels bad when RL interferes with our gaming : (

Necromancer – Xexa The Machine [RiOT] | Ruins of Surmia
http://www.thecivilrebels.com

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Posted by: Newagi.8056

Newagi.8056

well feel happy otherwise we would have heard more blaming UW having massiv public blobs

Madness Rises [Rise] – Gunnar’s Hold [EU]
Nimodem / Sempros

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Posted by: Verloren Stilte.9623

Verloren Stilte.9623

Had a fun fight at RoS Hills last night, we just got into the lord room and RoS starting waypointing en masse, I ran off to quickly hit a gate, sadly I missed out on some loot bags because of that.

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Posted by: Enocka.7421

Enocka.7421

You are joking right all ive seen from Ros this week so far is huge zergs and people exploiting ac

(edited by Enocka.7421)

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Posted by: zonderbon.5871

zonderbon.5871

You are joking right all ive seen from Ros this week so far is huge zergs and people exploiting ac

What planet are you from?

Feras Pridestalker/Acamar Blazeclaw of <Waking January>, the in-game and real-life band!

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Posted by: Sceinna.3561

Sceinna.3561

You are joking right all ive seen from Ros this week so far is huge zergs and people exploiting ac

Err, I’m Outmanned on every bl everyday, even home at times lol.. and exploiting happens on every server mate.

UW has a horrible reputation when it comes down to cheating (I know a lot of that is false or just due to individuals since UW was my home..) but that sorta makes it UW can’t complain about some individuals using “ac hacks”, because your people do literally the same and I see none of us crying about it (for a change, because I remember people accusing UW in every matchup lol).

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Posted by: Cameirus.8407

Cameirus.8407

You are joking right all ive seen from Ros this week so far is huge zergs and people exploiting ac

Could you let us on RoS know where this huge zerg we have is? because we seam to beoutmanned on most BL, and running as a small-medium guild group we find it very difficult to find anything but multiguild blobs to fight.

Which is fine, but we dont really have the peoplet to run blobs except at prime time in EB, and thats all pugs.

(edited by Cameirus.8407)

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Posted by: Liquid Storm.8097

Liquid Storm.8097

You are joking right all ive seen from Ros this week so far is huge zergs and people exploiting ac

You sure you’re fighting RoS mate? Or have you mistaken us for FR?

Staff elementalist @ [SOUL]
Far Shiverpeaks EU
http://fspsoul.enjin.com/

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Posted by: Okaishi.8320

Okaishi.8320

Well, yesterday night there were come people using very questionable angles on their ACs in the Bay lord’s room @ RoS border, but as has been previously stated every server has its black sheep and such matters should be dealt with outside the forums.

As for the matchup itself, it’s very close still and anyone can still win. Personally I’m really enjoying it, for the small scale and the larger encounters. Gonna try to poke at RiOT groups whenever we have the opportunity, it can be quite deadly but fun at the same time

Member of TUP on Gandara

(edited by Okaishi.8320)

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Posted by: The Umpire.9510

The Umpire.9510

had some awesome fights this night against UW

respect guys to get so many ppl in wvw this night you’re outnumberd us and get a lot of EB….

realy good matchup!!… like it, sad that we dont meet up again after friday

nightcapping done for me… need some sleep xD

Raidleader stikkomaniacs
Guild: SFRJ
Server: FSP

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Posted by: Nymph of Meliai.6739

Nymph of Meliai.6739

You are joking right all ive seen from Ros this week so far is huge zergs and people exploiting ac

I spend 90% of my time in the game soloing outmanned maps… 1% in small roaming groups trying to sneak down walls and gates. 9% in a small zerg.

I have yet to see a huge RoS zerg… we simply do not have the server numbers to blob.

Nymeria Meliae | SoS
Acid Bath Babies Go Plop Plop [FizZ]

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Posted by: Madthunder.6581

Madthunder.6581

Only surnia zerg i seen alot is in home bl and you mean you go to a enemy bl and expect not to get zerged by the owner?

Smashys – 80 – Commander of [A]dvanced [T]atics – Ruins of Surmia

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Posted by: Atlanis.1473

Atlanis.1473

Err, I’m Outmanned on every bl everyday, even home at times lol.. and exploiting happens on every server mate.
RoS has a horrible reputation when it comes down to cheating (I know a lot of that is false or just due to individuals since RoS was my home..) but that sorta makes it RoS can’t complain about some individuals using “ac hacks”, because your people do literally the same and I see none of us crying about it (for a change, because I remember people accusing RoS in every matchup lol).

And yea i just replaced UW with RoS, fun eh?

See how easy it is to post some random junk, it proves nothing.

No matter how much Server X cheat’s, it doesn’t give you a freeride to cheat too.

Justifying it by saying but but but you cheat too, and your reputation is so bad, which it isnt btw. maybe in your shaded biased view it is, but only that.

I totally hate cheating, no matter if its done by an ally or by a foe, it’s foul play.

I enjoy the matchup, i don’t care who wins in the end, but stop acting like your the topdogs here, cause the few RioT i saw in eb where barley noticable.

Let the flaming begin!

Keva
[Rain]

(edited by Atlanis.1473)

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Posted by: yroeht.5843

yroeht.5843

I enjoy the matchup, i don’t care who wins in the end, but stop acting like your the topdogs here, cause the few RioT i saw in eb where barley noticable.

Who is RioT? We are RiOT.

(We rarely play on eb, and yesterday was pve night).

Necromancer – Xexa The Machine [RiOT] | Ruins of Surmia
http://www.thecivilrebels.com

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Posted by: Suspicious Nija.6790

Suspicious Nija.6790

about the ac’s in bay lord room: we had a kittenload of them and not all were in the lord room. 2 or so were “hidden” behind the middle inner gate. maybe those confused you. but im 90% sure there were no zoom-hacks used in that fight.
and unlike other servers we dont use tactics like reviving dead mesmers through gates which already happened in this matchup from “respected” enemy guilds so pls dont make complain posts about cheating when it sadly happens on every server ( here i have to add that i cant say for sure that we dont do it its just that i and some others encourage our derps to not use exploits etc.)

all in all its a close and enjoyable matchup! keep up the fun till the end

Dreamland of Cookies [mmmh]
Never let facts interfere with your opinion.
R.I.P. Liquid World Experience

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Posted by: Epikindinos.9476

Epikindinos.9476

It’s been a very fun week of WvW I must say
Best fight I’ve had was last night in EB in Overlook keep against RoS. (you made me hate banner warriors)
No need to start the “hacking” stuff on this thread, since we all know its noob players.

Commander Jack Da Black/Kindinos[GRTS]
Greek Titans
Gunnars Hold

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Posted by: VaaCrow.3076

VaaCrow.3076

Err, I’m Outmanned on every bl everyday, even home at times lol.. and exploiting happens on every server mate.
RoS has a horrible reputation when it comes down to cheating (I know a lot of that is false or just due to individuals since RoS was my home..) but that sorta makes it RoS can’t complain about some individuals using “ac hacks”, because your people do literally the same and I see none of us crying about it (for a change, because I remember people accusing RoS in every matchup lol).

And yea i just replaced UW with RoS, fun eh?

See how easy it is to post some random junk, it proves nothing.

No matter how much Server X cheat’s, it doesn’t give you a freeride to cheat too.

Justifying it by saying but but but you cheat too, and your reputation is so bad, which it isnt btw. maybe in your shaded biased view it is, but only that.

I totally hate cheating, no matter if its done by an ally or by a foe, it’s foul play.

I enjoy the matchup, i don’t care who wins in the end, but stop acting like your the topdogs here, cause the few RioT i saw in eb where barley noticable.

Let the flaming begin!

Keva
[Rain]

10/10. i love you keva, don’t ever change!

And yeah, matchup thread seems to be dominated by the same few riot blowing smoke up their own kitten-holes, funny that.

Hows dat band-wagoning working out for ya scienna?

GJ so far underworld, keep up the good fighting guys!

[Rise] Madness Rises Guild Leader [Kei Shade-ranger]
May our BL break all foes. Fear our babou!
Gunnars Hold Represent! <3

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Posted by: Nymph of Meliai.6739

Nymph of Meliai.6739

Err, I’m Outmanned on every bl everyday, even home at times lol.. and exploiting happens on every server mate.
RoS has a horrible reputation when it comes down to cheating (I know a lot of that is false or just due to individuals since RoS was my home..) but that sorta makes it RoS can’t complain about some individuals using “ac hacks”, because your people do literally the same and I see none of us crying about it (for a change, because I remember people accusing RoS in every matchup lol).

And yea i just replaced UW with RoS, fun eh?

See how easy it is to post some random junk, it proves nothing.

No matter how much Server X cheat’s, it doesn’t give you a freeride to cheat too.

Justifying it by saying but but but you cheat too, and your reputation is so bad, which it isnt btw. maybe in your shaded biased view it is, but only that.

I totally hate cheating, no matter if its done by an ally or by a foe, it’s foul play.

I enjoy the matchup, i don’t care who wins in the end, but stop acting like your the topdogs here, cause the few RioT i saw in eb where barley noticable.

Let the flaming begin!

Keva
[Rain]

You didn’t notice me Keva for two reasons… firstly, I am the mesmer that hides and portals people in when you have gone (except when I get caught it a lag spike)… secondly, I am the person on the top of SM holding you off with the canons… on the weekend I solo defeated both UW and FR attacks on the SM gates and on a couple of garrisons with my uber canon skills.

Besides… RoS does not equal RiOT and nobody in RiOT thinks that we are the only and best guild on RoS… we have some brilliant players and guilds on RoS that are not RiOT. We are honoured to be playing alongside them. We are merely one guild among equals.

Nymeria Meliae | SoS
Acid Bath Babies Go Plop Plop [FizZ]

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Posted by: Nymph of Meliai.6739

Nymph of Meliai.6739

And yeah, matchup thread seems to be dominated by the same few riot blowing smoke up their own kitten-holes, funny that.

Do you get higher doing that?

Nymeria Meliae | SoS
Acid Bath Babies Go Plop Plop [FizZ]

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Posted by: Panos.9427

Panos.9427

Yeah guys, keep up the forum fights, its nice, but I would love to see some action tho …

-Rerolled [Re]
-Typhons Bane

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Posted by: Sceinna.3561

Sceinna.3561

Err, I’m Outmanned on every bl everyday, even home at times lol.. and exploiting happens on every server mate.
RoS has a horrible reputation when it comes down to cheating (I know a lot of that is false or just due to individuals since RoS was my home..) but that sorta makes it RoS can’t complain about some individuals using “ac hacks”, because your people do literally the same and I see none of us crying about it (for a change, because I remember people accusing RoS in every matchup lol).

And yea i just replaced UW with RoS, fun eh?

See how easy it is to post some random junk, it proves nothing.

No matter how much Server X cheat’s, it doesn’t give you a freeride to cheat too.

Justifying it by saying but but but you cheat too, and your reputation is so bad, which it isnt btw. maybe in your shaded biased view it is, but only that.

I totally hate cheating, no matter if its done by an ally or by a foe, it’s foul play.

I enjoy the matchup, i don’t care who wins in the end, but stop acting like your the topdogs here, cause the few RioT i saw in eb where barley noticable.

Let the flaming begin!

Keva
[Rain]

I’m actually saddened getting this response from you. I clearly stated not all of it is true and spoke in defense of what Enocka typed. There are a lot of screenshots/videos on youtube to begin with but hell.. I have always been the first person to defend Underworld in every matchup thread even while being in RoS.

My point was clearly that you got cheaters, we got cheaters, everyone has their cheaters.. and accusing an entire server of cheating is just lame and I do take it personal as I am part of that server. But +1 at completely failing to understand my comment.

Underworld vs Ruins of Surmia vs Fort Ranik

in Match-ups

Posted by: Bloodstealer.5978

Bloodstealer.5978

Goota say I am hopin g RoS and UW are matched up again this week I have had a real blast with you guys.. the chicken bloober FR can go play elsewhere, they are no fun and lack anything other than blob – AC drench – run.

Funny highlight for me last night.. on EB around midnight we formed up on for a late night push and took all of FR teriroty (we left ya Mendons to bury ya dead in… did ya notice), then we played with RoS.. first we took Durios then off to SM.. exept I stayed behind in Duriod with one battered AC behind gate, no supply and after holding the 12 Ros for 25mins I cryed tears of joy when you unleashed that Alpha golem on little old me and a busted up wooden gate.. priceless fun ty.

Was a little disappointed that one of your lot had to resort to the pin point zoom hack on me at the back of the tower though, spoiled the fun for a while.. in any case…. we took SM and came back and busted that golem up good and proper… ooh and the gate was still at 20% and I luckily got out of downed state ready to go again….. but you ran away

Anyhow all silliness aside, the scoring tells the story all 3 sides in touching distance of each other and RoS have put in some hours to get ya noses in front so well done thus far.. but UW is gunna get ya … one way or the other