Guild Wars 2

I believe Scarlett is Trahearne’s ex-wife (A woman scorned and all that.)

Either that or she doesn’t really exist (Mesmer trick) and that the “real” enemy is yet to be revealed.

Farzo.8410:

Nah, people are overanalyzing as usual.

ArenaNet just thought it was cool to add a creature with six eyes, nothing more, nothing less.

There’s no connection to either margonites or Abaddon.

Yeah, the thing looks more spider/plant (slap some more arms on it, and it would be definitive). Possibly fueled by a necromantic spirit.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Fiend

I still think Scarlet is a figment of our collective imagination, controlled by whatever entity we will eventually face.

As for Abbadon, what if Kormir finally couldn’t contain Abbadon’s power within her soul and the “bad” energy absorbed all the “good” energy and corrupted Kormir. The reason that the human gods have been silent for so long is that Kormir has kept them bound, sapping their power in order to “heal” for the last 251 years.

Now that Kormir’s stronger, she has released a terrible illusion (Scarlet) to irritate us and give us a false sense of security.

We’ll end up fighting Kormir until we are assailed by the “unnamed water elder dragon” that is being quietly forgotten except in a small wiki article:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deep_sea_dragon

Once upon a time, Anet said that Abaddon was dead and done and that we won’t hear anything from him ever again.

Of course, by now, we learned that Anet loves to play with words and they are the kings of retcons.

well if you would have asked me a few months ago, id say no way, not related, just coincidence. I actually think alot of the gw1 lore was left in gw1 cuz either they felt they can work on new stuff (scarlet) or that the majority of the players wont know any gw1 lore. In any case is this Abaddon related? maybe and only maybe cuz Anet did say they would make an Abaddon fractal if it was voted in, so maybe that was due to the fact that the LS would somehow be linked to it? Who knows…

Abaddon and Menzies work for Scarlet now.

An alliance between Abbadon and Menzies…. hmm

There is so uh potential for cheesy names. Diabolical Duo (cringe).

No. There is a thread literally below yours that is the same thread.

Jeff.4680:

PopeUrban.2578:

No.

Abbaddon was the Scarlet of GW1 lore.

Everything made sense, and then all of a sudden “Abbaddon was behind all of everything since the beginning! We just never told you because we made it up just now and retconned it to make him seem more important.”

Don’t you ever, ever, compare Scarlet to godly lore such as Abaddon again. EVER…
However, I do see your point to a degree, especially with the fortune teller being a demon. But in actuality, it made sense. Without this being true, she was just a crazy lady with no apparent motives to cause chaos. Hmmm kinda sounds like another character we know…

I think everything being tied to Abaddon fit quite superbly. He was mentioned in the first game, and at the end of Nightfall it was almost like he was there the entire time. Right infront of our faces, he was playing us, where the veil to the mist was thin, from the very beginning. Was Abaddon the bad guy, or was it us the players?

Not to mention that Nightfall was by far the best writing Arena Net has produced thus far.

Nightfall was a very well written campaign, and my favorite of the three (and factions was an abortion of a plot saved only by the well designed continent/gameplay/background lore it was set in)

That doesn’t change the fact that the heavy-handedness of retconning him in to two other completely unrelated plots watered down the narrative and made a mockery of the villains in said narrative.

Making evil monolithic makes it less believable, and a lot less interesting. That’s WHY nightfall was so much fun. Joko’s subplot made it that much more belivable. If that plot were written today, we’d just encounter Joko as a midboss, kill him, kill the mama worm, and ride all over the wastes in helicopters. He’d never grow as a character, and he’d be just a footnote in Tyrian history.

Also, enlighten me to where Abby was mentioned in prophecies. I played GW1 from just before release onward and recall no mention of abby until they changed the HoH to have it taken over (As nightfall was being released, as part of the retconning) and turned in to a new dungeon when they were moving all the PvP to the shiny new battle isles.

If Abby was present in the game prior to nightfall I’d love to see that as it would add just a smidge of legitimacy to him.

Just so we’re all clear, you all know fractals take place in the past, right? We could have a fractal dedicated to glint if they wanted, in fact if it was a copy and paste of the mission where we fight glint in prophecies, I’d be ok with that. But back to topic; it seems far more likely that the dragons are why the gods are absent, and this having 6 eyes being pure coincidence. I really hope it is at least, scarlet borrowing credibility from abaddon would just bring down abaddon, not make scarlet more interesting or anything like that.

I still don’t understand why everyone disliked factions story so much, to me, I loved factions and I thought nightfalls story was awful, in terms of characters and actions, and it retconned so much. My favorite part of nightfall was Palawa Joko, because he was the one character actually fleshed out and made interesting, and the desert had neat mechanics.

A Massive Headache.1879:

Just so we’re all clear, you all know fractals take place in the past, right? We could have a fractal dedicated to glint if they wanted, in fact if it was a copy and paste of the mission where we fight glint in prophecies, I’d be ok with that. But back to topic; it seems far more likely that the dragons are why the gods are absent, and this having 6 eyes being pure coincidence. I really hope it is at least, scarlet borrowing credibility from abaddon would just bring down abaddon, not make scarlet more interesting or anything like that.

Fractals take place in the mists, inspired or influenced by events that happened, might have happened, or could have happened, could happen one day, or could be completely random.

In the Mists a fractal or entire plane of existance as big as tyria or larger could exist where there were never any dragons, or the Charr never destroyed ascalon, or the world is ruled by intelligent beavers with assault rifles.

Fractals, and anywhere not on tyria and thus across the mists is literally “the multiverse”

A Massive Headache.1879:

I still don’t understand why everyone disliked factions story so much, to me, I loved factions and I thought nightfalls story was awful, in terms of characters and actions, and it retconned so much. My favorite part of nightfall was Palawa Joko, because he was the one character actually fleshed out and made interesting, and the desert had neat mechanics.

I find people that like the Faction’s storyline really just like Asian themed anything. The same sort of people that fall over themselves for Anime, no matter how bad it really is, just because it’s anime.

Yes, its a beautiful asian inspired continent… but the cutscenes were B-movie kungkittenfilms, and the overall plot was long strings of nothing happenning broken up by flashbacks about a guy who murdered someone a long time ago… for no apperant reason at all (until they decided it was abby… because everything is abby)

As a story, it was poorly written, the dialogue was bad, the villain was bland and ineffective, the whole thing was predicated on a series of flashbacks, and there were so many Deus Ex machina moments that it was entirely unbelivable. I mean it STARTS with you getting killed and then mirculously chosen to be not-dead by some wardens of a spirit world… that outside of that plotline do not and never have existed. From there you chase a guy across a map, getting nowhere, meanwhile nothing happens. Then you take a side trip to hang out with Kurzicks/Luxons and that whole section is okay… and then you’re back to the business of being repeatedly told how awesome some guy is while he actually does nothing awesome.

And then there’s a dragon that gives you superpowers, and then you kill him.

The end.

Didn’t the Krait in the first game have some statues to the Margonites in the desert sort of near the Arid sea? I could be wrong they’re probably not Krait but they made a Hisssing noise when you ran past them?

They had all kinds of statues built around there and there was a link to Nightfall?

Zappix.7928:

Didn’t the Krait in the first game have some statues to the Margonites in the desert sort of near the Arid sea? I could be wrong they’re probably not Krait but they made a Hisssing noise when you ran past them?

They had all kinds of statues built around there and there was a link to Nightfall?

There were no krait in the first game until the EOTN expansion, in which they, like many things (Asura, Norn, Elder Dragons, etc.) , were added scpecifically because they were going to be in GW2.

You’re thinking of the Forgotten, which are a whole different race. Originally they were very scarce, having been said to have pre-dated humanity in tyria. You got an important 15 Sp quest from one IIRC. In Nightfall they decided they should be the wardens of Abby’s prison. In Nightfall, once you wnet to the Realm or Torment, they were all over, as the gods had left it to them to maintain his prison.

I could have sworn there was an official statement from anet that all the fractals take place in the past. As for factions, yes I liked the asian theme, but I don’t care for anime. we were essentially chosen because we were the heroes of tyria. There was more depth in shiro than a majority of npcs in nightfall, and it may have been a lot of flashbacks but that makes for a more entertaining game than reading the wall of text from an npc. I kind of feel like the writing style of nightfall is spilling over into these living stories and it’s atrocious

A Massive Headache.1879:

I could have sworn there was an official statement from anet that all the fractals take place in the past. As for factions, yes I liked the asian theme, but I don’t care for anime. we were essentially chosen because we were the heroes of tyria. There was more depth in shiro than a majority of npcs in nightfall, and it may have been a lot of flashbacks but that makes for a more entertaining game than reading the wall of text from an npc. I kind of feel like the writing style of nightfall is spilling over into these living stories and it’s atrocious

yeah they originally said the past then doubled back and said past present or possible futures( probably to cover all ground so they can keep it creative). But yes i mention the fractal not as a current thing but just a oddity that they would do a Abaddon fractal and now were seeing these trademark 6 eyes. Im not holding my breath or anything, just curious notion cuz like you said , it could have just as well been glint, but it wasn’t. why Abaddon specifically?

A Massive Headache.1879:

I could have sworn there was an official statement from anet that all the fractals take place in the past. As for factions, yes I liked the asian theme, but I don’t care for anime. we were essentially chosen because we were the heroes of tyria. There was more depth in shiro than a majority of npcs in nightfall, and it may have been a lot of flashbacks but that makes for a more entertaining game than reading the wall of text from an npc. I kind of feel like the writing style of nightfall is spilling over into these living stories and it’s atrocious

You’re welcome to your opinions about the Factions storyline, but I’ll maintain mine.

The mists are, essentially the formless aether that makes up all things. They are reactive and semi-sentient. Fractals are “echoes” of events, places or ideas, the same way that GW2’s mists pvp maps are echoes. These Echoes are often distorted or even only barely inspired by actual events. The best example of this is the solid ocean fractal, an echo of the Jade sea only barely conforming to the laws of our reality.

A better way to understand it is that fractals are like small volcanic islands, wheras tyria proper is a continent. The islands tend to form around continents because their structure makes it so much easier, but it is possible, and even likely that they can form in much more out of the way places.

The harpy fractal is a puzzling examply of the protean nature of the mists. is it an echo of a real place, left to fester for ages? It is an echo of the future of a place we know? Is it a twisted version of some place in the present simple inhabited by a traveller that got lost?

In addition, the Mists as a whole are responsible for the formation of all realities in the GW lorescape. Tyria itself was once just a tiny island in the mists, and out among and beyond the mists lie a potentially infinite collection of other realms just as intriciate and large. The human gods initially hail from one such realm (or were formed from the mists themselves, this is unclear) and it’s been said that they “brought” humans to tyria from another place.

Kingmutez.4931:

A Massive Headache.1879:

I could have sworn there was an official statement from anet that all the fractals take place in the past. As for factions, yes I liked the asian theme, but I don’t care for anime. we were essentially chosen because we were the heroes of tyria. There was more depth in shiro than a majority of npcs in nightfall, and it may have been a lot of flashbacks but that makes for a more entertaining game than reading the wall of text from an npc. I kind of feel like the writing style of nightfall is spilling over into these living stories and it’s atrocious

yeah they originally said the past then doubled back and said past present or possible futures( probably to cover all ground so they can keep it creative). But yes i mention the fractal not as a current thing but just a oddity that they would do a Abaddon fractal and now were seeing these trademark 6 eyes. Im not holding my breath or anything, just curious notion cuz like you said , it could have just as well been glint, but it wasn’t. why Abaddon specifically?

OH, I missed that they changed that. Alright then. thank you.

Romo.3709:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Also, we know the origins of steam creatures. One user on the wiki was just making an edit war claiming that those in Lornar’s Pass may hold a different origin than those in the personal story where it is stated the Grand Sovereign invented them.

Still doesn’t explain the origins. And one person’s speculation doesn’t make it true.

Excuse me, but how does that not explain the origins?

The Grand High Sovereign – the future version of the asura player character – made the Steam creatures. This is fact and is their origins.

And who’s speculating here? This comes straight from the horse’s mouth so I’m certainly not speculating.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

[…]

Also, we know the origins of steam creatures. One user on the wiki was just making an edit war claiming that those in Lornar’s Pass may hold a different origin than those in the personal story where it is stated the Grand Sovereign invented them.

Oh, no, no.

We just know that guy used them too. And nothing else. We don’t know if the Grand Sovereign made them all, or if he was the one that originally developed them, or if Scarlet is using the same ones, or some she made herself, not even if hers are related to his, or if she simply saw them through the mists and decided to make her own.

All we know for sure is “The Grand Sovereign had steam creatures as minions” and “Scarlet has steam creatures as minions”, as player characters haven’t seen anything else, and we can’t trust what Scarlet and the Grand Sovereign themselves say.

That’s why the steam creatures are one of the few good edges in Scarlet’s story. The other ones being whatever she saw that ‘turned’ Ceara into Scarlet, and — needless to say — Hobotron.

Ahem

" Wait until you get to know my creations. In my reality, they conquered Tyria. "

To be his creations, he must have created them. This point blank states that the Grand High Sovereign made the Steam creatures.

Why can’t we trust what the bragging villain says? Sure, he could be lying, but the rule of thumb when it comes to lore is “truth until proven otherwise” when it comes to non-contradicted information.

Madora.9340:

The guy on the left of Scarlett looks more like a minotaur or an Axon (The demons near Shadow Behemoth) to me than the molten berserker if you ask me, I mean, look at the horns.

The guy on the left is the Molten Berserker from Flame and Frost. Without a doubt. The blue glow, the cybornetic metal in his body. The gloves. Definitely the Molten Berserker – even if the concept art doesn’t fully match the in-game model.

Also, Aatxe, not Axon.

A Massive Headache.1879:

Kingmutez.4931:

A Massive Headache.1879:

I could have sworn there was an official statement from anet that all the fractals take place in the past.[…]

yeah they originally said the past then doubled back and said past present or possible futures( probably to cover all ground so they can keep it creative). But yes i mention the fractal not as a current thing but just a oddity that they would do a Abaddon fractal and now were seeing these trademark 6 eyes. Im not holding my breath or anything, just curious notion cuz like you said , it could have just as well been glint, but it wasn’t. why Abaddon specifically?

OH, I missed that they changed that. Alright then. thank you.

Actually, what was said about the Fractals is that all current Fractals in Fractals of the Mists dungeon are about the past (excluded from the statement being Dessa’s lab and possibly Uncategorized Fractal), but that the Mists – and by extension the Factals of the Mists – can be about past, present, or future. There was no “backtracking” involved in this statement.

Oh. ok then, so I was still suffering from a misunderstanding. So if fractals could be about the future… I forget the relevance. I mean yeah the mists can be past/present/future, but if abaddons power was absorbed, would he be able to go to the mists and come back? that just seems like poor writing.

The fractals can be about the past, present, or future, but they aren’t the past, present, or future. They are simply echoes of events that the Mists copied, and bad copies at that.

Obviously it’s just an experiment of mixing Krait and Sylvari (like clockwork tree in TA)

A Massive Headache.1879:

I mean yeah the mists can be past/present/future, but if abaddons power was absorbed, would he be able to go to the mists and come back? that just seems like poor writing.

Abaddon’s dead so if he returns it’d be some “Abaddon from the distant past” if anything.

I’m sure it has to do with the awakening of Mordremoth and all his magic is probably twisted scarlet somehow and she’s basically Zhaitan’s Eye but WAY more effective.

Here is a FAR stretch, but maybe Mordremoth has the 6 eyes and maybe Abbadon somehow knew about this dragon (He was the god of secrets) and so he probably modeled himself after Mordremoth long ago and the Margonites thought they were modeled off him but in actuality are modeled off of Mordremoth .

I’ll pick my baseball up from let field now.

The krait did exist in Factions (in a way) They were called Naga (same form, same basic professions.) and they had similar appearances. The biggest difference is the origins. I don’t know where the Naga originated, but the krait didn’t appear until the unnamed sea elder dragon forced them out of their preferred environments.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.

A twist? in Guild Wars lore? I think you guys confused this game with something else.

Ashabhi.1365:

The krait did exist in Factions (in a way) They were called Naga (same form, same basic professions.) and they had similar appearances. The biggest difference is the origins. I don’t know where the Naga originated, but the krait didn’t appear until the unnamed sea elder dragon forced them out of their preferred environments.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.

Naga are completely different from krait. Naga were not xenophobikittenil the sea turned solid and forced them out of where they had lived, where they had an increase of problems with the other races, nor do they transform/molt/mutate whatever it is krait can do, they also didn’t have a crazy religion where they’d wipe everything out. I would not imagine krait would be too accepting of naga.

That’s like calling the forgotten krait.

VitalSuit.1980:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/5/5e/Mini_Toxic_Hybrid.png

No it’s not Abaddon.

Man I got all excited for a minute thinking the big guy behind scarlet and the hints at a “more insidious enemy” might give us the real mastermind behind everything. But no it’s just another mashup enemy like the clockheart. Scarlet Sue’s still in control and I can go back to ignoring the LS.

It maybe a recycle/rework of some stuff from the abaddon fractal we wont get. Remember how they made us vote for it and the reactor fractal won.

ANet said there would be no dragon-related content in the LS this year. +1 if this is mordremoth, though.

Zevilo.9304:

It maybe a recycle/rework of some stuff from the abaddon fractal we wont get. Remember how they made us vote for it and the reactor fractal won.

That is entirely possible, but from the way they talked about it, it sounded as though they weren’t going to start working on it until after the election, though, enemy types would be a good thing to work ahead on regardless.

PopeUrban.2578:

Jeff.4680:

PopeUrban.2578:

No.

Abbaddon was the Scarlet of GW1 lore.

Everything made sense, and then all of a sudden “Abbaddon was behind all of everything since the beginning! We just never told you because we made it up just now and retconned it to make him seem more important.”

Don’t you ever, ever, compare Scarlet to godly lore such as Abaddon again. EVER…
However, I do see your point to a degree, especially with the fortune teller being a demon. But in actuality, it made sense. Without this being true, she was just a crazy lady with no apparent motives to cause chaos. Hmmm kinda sounds like another character we know…

I think everything being tied to Abaddon fit quite superbly. He was mentioned in the first game, and at the end of Nightfall it was almost like he was there the entire time. Right infront of our faces, he was playing us, where the veil to the mist was thin, from the very beginning. Was Abaddon the bad guy, or was it us the players?

Not to mention that Nightfall was by far the best writing Arena Net has produced thus far.

Nightfall was a very well written campaign, and my favorite of the three (and factions was an abortion of a plot saved only by the well designed continent/gameplay/background lore it was set in)

That doesn’t change the fact that the heavy-handedness of retconning him in to two other completely unrelated plots watered down the narrative and made a mockery of the villains in said narrative.

Making evil monolithic makes it less believable, and a lot less interesting. That’s WHY nightfall was so much fun. Joko’s subplot made it that much more belivable. If that plot were written today, we’d just encounter Joko as a midboss, kill him, kill the mama worm, and ride all over the wastes in helicopters. He’d never grow as a character, and he’d be just a footnote in Tyrian history.

Also, enlighten me to where Abby was mentioned in prophecies. I played GW1 from just before release onward and recall no mention of abby until they changed the HoH to have it taken over (As nightfall was being released, as part of the retconning) and turned in to a new dungeon when they were moving all the PvP to the shiny new battle isles.

If Abby was present in the game prior to nightfall I’d love to see that as it would add just a smidge of legitimacy to him.

It really is a bit of a stretch, but you do fight the Lich after breaking the seals of the Door of Komalie in Abaddon’s Mouth.. :P And since there are places such as “the Heart of Abaddon” later on in Nightfall, you could literally take Abaddon’s Mouth as a place where Abaddon is able to somehow influence/overflow into Tyria.

Wild guess time! The sylvari are a reflection of Kormir’s fight and the dream is a reflection of Kormir’s knowledge. Abaddon’s the one corrupting it, the Nightmare Court is trying to bring about their own version of the nightfallen lands. Scarlet, as knowledge driven as she was, fell for Abaddon’s promises as well!

Meh XD;.

Kiayin.3427:

PopeUrban.2578:

Jeff.4680:

PopeUrban.2578:

No.

Abbaddon was the Scarlet of GW1 lore.

Everything made sense, and then all of a sudden “Abbaddon was behind all of everything since the beginning! We just never told you because we made it up just now and retconned it to make him seem more important.”

Don’t you ever, ever, compare Scarlet to godly lore such as Abaddon again. EVER…
However, I do see your point to a degree, especially with the fortune teller being a demon. But in actuality, it made sense. Without this being true, she was just a crazy lady with no apparent motives to cause chaos. Hmmm kinda sounds like another character we know…

I think everything being tied to Abaddon fit quite superbly. He was mentioned in the first game, and at the end of Nightfall it was almost like he was there the entire time. Right infront of our faces, he was playing us, where the veil to the mist was thin, from the very beginning. Was Abaddon the bad guy, or was it us the players?

Not to mention that Nightfall was by far the best writing Arena Net has produced thus far.

Nightfall was a very well written campaign, and my favorite of the three (and factions was an abortion of a plot saved only by the well designed continent/gameplay/background lore it was set in)

That doesn’t change the fact that the heavy-handedness of retconning him in to two other completely unrelated plots watered down the narrative and made a mockery of the villains in said narrative.

Making evil monolithic makes it less believable, and a lot less interesting. That’s WHY nightfall was so much fun. Joko’s subplot made it that much more belivable. If that plot were written today, we’d just encounter Joko as a midboss, kill him, kill the mama worm, and ride all over the wastes in helicopters. He’d never grow as a character, and he’d be just a footnote in Tyrian history.

Also, enlighten me to where Abby was mentioned in prophecies. I played GW1 from just before release onward and recall no mention of abby until they changed the HoH to have it taken over (As nightfall was being released, as part of the retconning) and turned in to a new dungeon when they were moving all the PvP to the shiny new battle isles.

If Abby was present in the game prior to nightfall I’d love to see that as it would add just a smidge of legitimacy to him.

It really is a bit of a stretch, but you do fight the Lich after breaking the seals of the Door of Komalie in Abaddon’s Mouth.. :P And since there are places such as “the Heart of Abaddon” later on in Nightfall, you could literally take Abaddon’s Mouth as a place where Abaddon is able to somehow influence/overflow into Tyria.

Wild guess time! The sylvari are a reflection of Kormir’s fight and the dream is a reflection of Kormir’s knowledge. Abaddon’s the one corrupting it, the Nightmare Court is trying to bring about their own version of the nightfallen lands. Scarlet, as knowledge driven as she was, fell for Abaddon’s promises as well!

Meh XD;.

I’ll give you that one, but the question here is whether abby as a god was planned at that stage, or whether they had a name of a place and went “well lets call him that”

I’m inclined, based on the lore-vaccum and “erased from history” shtick (a common one used when retconning) surrounding #6 To believe the latter, otherwise I would have really expected to see the lich say one thing or another about working for abby-as-god

The retconning present in GW2 at the Vizier’s tower indicates that the guy was obviously aware of abby, and was purposefully his minion, however nothing he says or does (especially during his big evil mastermind speech) indicates this.

Smells like retconning to me

A Massive Headache.1879:

Just so we’re all clear, you all know fractals take place in the past, right? We could have a fractal dedicated to glint if they wanted, in fact if it was a copy and paste of the mission where we fight glint in prophecies, I’d be ok with that. But back to topic; it seems far more likely that the dragons are why the gods are absent, and this having 6 eyes being pure coincidence. I really hope it is at least, scarlet borrowing credibility from abaddon would just bring down abaddon, not make scarlet more interesting or anything like that.

Fractals are multi-dimensional. They can be past, present, future, non-existant or a consequence of actions you may take. You could theoretically have a fractal of saving yourself from a wipe as you do a fractal. Or one where you kill a dragon-corrupted version of yourself.

I’m just gonna call; Aliens.

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

A Massive Headache.1879:

Just so we’re all clear, you all know fractals take place in the past, right? We could have a fractal dedicated to glint if they wanted, in fact if it was a copy and paste of the mission where we fight glint in prophecies, I’d be ok with that. But back to topic; it seems far more likely that the dragons are why the gods are absent, and this having 6 eyes being pure coincidence. I really hope it is at least, scarlet borrowing credibility from abaddon would just bring down abaddon, not make scarlet more interesting or anything like that.

Fractals are multi-dimensional. They can be past, present, future, non-existant or a consequence of actions you may take. You could theoretically have a fractal of saving yourself from a wipe as you do a fractal. Or one where you kill a dragon-corrupted version of yourself.

That was already dealt with, it was a misunderstanding of the quote from anet, that all current fractals took place in the past, but then they said the uncatagorized fractal might not be. That still doesn’t solve that abaddon could still be around, as if past abaddon could go to the future, he would have done so, all the gods could, so I still don’t think it’s viable to speculate that.

PopeUrban.2578:

-snip-

Abaddon was not really a retcon. While never mentioned by name, there was always hints of a dark force behind things. Dark Oak’s little prophecy was never clearly about the White Mantle and Mursaat, and was possibly a hint to Khilbron (the “lion” via the Chimera of Intensity skill, or w/e it was called) and the forces behind him. Shiro was even more hinted to be having string/forces behind him. Firstly, he was hinted to be a little influenced by dark forces in An Empire Divided while still alive – though this didn’t really make it into the game. And when we stopped Shiro’s actions, Suun said that our deeds had greater consequences than we knew – again, a hint that there was more to Shiro than met the eyes. Furthermore, even the Realm of Torment and that Shiro was to be taken to some extremely punishing afterlife (aka the Realm of Torment though never named in that situation) was shown in Prophecies and Factions respectively.

By the way, Tombs of the Primeval Kings wasn’t a retcon, nor was it done prior to Nightfall but rather prior to Factions – specifically after the first Wintersday, 3 or so months prior to Factions’ release and iirc happened around the same time the Factions preview quests in Kryta appeared. Furthermore, rather than a retcon, it was a progression of story – since it didn’t retroactively alter the canon (retcon literally being short as “retroactive continuity”). It’s no different than the GW2’s Living Story altering Auld Red Wharf from a ruined town to nothing but rubble because the krait tore it down. But the tendrils present at Tombs that was later seen as Abaddon’s “hair” was always there – as were the earliest of his forces, the torment demons. It also included some of Dhuum’s forces, whom were allied with Abaddon as it was revealed later. The lead-up to Nightfall was actually Dragon Festival 2006, which happened between Factions’ and Nightfall’s release and featured The Fury and the same minions as from the Tomb of the Primeval Kings.

The thing was that it was just more hinting to Dhuum being the mastermind pulling strings rather than Abaddon, during Prophecies at least.

Either way, hidden dark forces were hinted upon since day one, it’s just that the hints seemed to point in one direction but were pointing in a close-but-not-quite direction (thought to be Dhuum, was Dhuum’s partner-in-crime using parts of his forces).

Khilbron is a bigger “possible retcon” but you do have to keep in mind that when writing Prophecies, there were opposing views of how to take that story (which is why, I believe, it seems to go back and forth between undead and mursaat as the main enemies – though this was one of the things that made it so good despite the sub-par writing and voice acting).

If you must scream ‘Abaddon was a retcon added in!’ then scream it as something added between Prophecies and Factions, as that when the real undeniable and non-retconning hints to him – even if never named – were put in. Though it’s my belief that, in development, it was planned for Dhuum to take the stage initially, but the spotlight got moved to a dark ancient god who was originally to be Arachnia (as there’s a lot of concept art for Factions have spider-related aspects) but got changed to Abaddon.

BrotherBelial.3094:

I’m just gonna call; Aliens.

But in Tyria… the aliens are humanity!

That means… humans did it!

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Yeah I played through GW1 I know all about the events that took place. I’m just thinking it’d be interesting if they were somehow related in any way… I’m tryin to find hope for this living story here lol.

You really want Scarlet to be related to Abaddon in some way? How is that to make the LS better? To me, that’d just make it worse because lo-and-behold, now a dead gods’ minions fall in line behind the scrambled-salad-brain.[/quote]
Agreed. The worst thing they could do to something awesome like Abbadon is tie it to something idiotic like Scarlet. It’s like SW Ep1. it’ll just poop on everything that was cool.

I sincerely hope we never get Abaddon in any way shape or form. Why? Because I got spare popcorn lying around, and it seems to somehow strike a nerve with a whole lot of people.

(No clue why though, it’s just one human god. The most boring race, and one god they no longer actually have. Plus oh noes, someone has fallen, coming from WoW that’s the only MO they have for generating antagonists there. It’d be more creative if we had to fight Marjory, at this point…)

Nilkemia.8507:

Interesting idea…except for one problem.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

He died at the end of Nightfall, and Kormir took his power. So he’s pretty much all but guaranteed to be a no show except for fractals.

Actually I think….

Shin Phoenix.9243:

[…]

She had to contain his power because “his will was broken”.

To put it simply, there’s the power, and there’s the “will” controlling it. Like someone at the controls of a vehicle.
When the heroes damaged enough the remains of Abaddon’s body in Gate of Abaddon, Abaddon could not contain his power anymore, and he broke. With Abaddon gone, there was nobody at the wheel and all that power was going to explode, only gods know what a massive explosion of magical power could do to Tyria while it was merging with the real of Torment because of Nightfall. So Kormir sacrificed herself, losing her physical body in the process, to put use her “soul” to give a new “will” to the power.

Abaddon was no more, and a new god was born.

Some say that Razah was a new body that was being prepared for Abaddon, or the remains of Abaddon’s soul, but even if that was the case, he was a blank slate who had no memories. Abaddon’s will was broken, Abaddon was no more. Just a memory, like anything in the mists that cannot affect the world anymore.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Stuff

On Shiro: Don’t get me started. Shiro’s entire concept, plotline, etc. was symptomatic of lazy writing looking for a way to engineer a fallen hero. It wouldn’t suprise me at all if Shiro’s “dark master” was another made up on the fly denizen of the apperantly separate afterlife from which the spiritual wardens hail.

On tombs: Tombs was corrupted shortly before the release of factions, when Nightfall was already under development as factions had already gone gold They needed to do something with the place as they were moving pvp to the battle isles, they saw a quick and dirty way to spruce the place up while legitimizing the upcoming plot, they went with it.

On Shiro: Shiro “Chasing dark forces” and the “Has further reaching consequences” bits of that plotline are standar trope invocation which now make sense in context only because they were intentional blanks left to be filled in later. Grub and Soesbee have stated openly that Anet’s writers will often purposely NOT write something in the manner so that it doesn’t conflict with some plot they may come up with later. This is exactly why Abby was able to fill in the blanks. Because those blanks were intentionally designed as blanks.

A great example of this is Doern’s questionable origin. There are some ideas in place at Anet right now about what to do with that, but everything avaliable to the end user is intentionally vague in order to allow them to shoehorn it in when it seems appropriate.

In addition, Anet routinely repurposes content when it is decided that a narrative shifts. This is best seen with the repurposing of Utopia assets in EOTN, and the long reaching effects of those assets (originally human) have come to define the cultural aesthetic of the Asura, and the look and feel of coastal areas like sparkfly, as those assets were originally intended for a completely different continent.

Abby was shoehorned in to two plots as fast as they came up with him because in once case they purposely left a questionable blank he made sense in and in the other case because people would complain if they didn’t fanservice two campaigns with the same shtick.

All of this doesn’t change the fact that monolithic evil is lazy writing, and tying everything up with a bow, regardless of how that bow was tied, makes for far less interesting stories, villains, and content.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Romo.3709:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Also, we know the origins of steam creatures. One user on the wiki was just making an edit war claiming that those in Lornar’s Pass may hold a different origin than those in the personal story where it is stated the Grand Sovereign invented them.

Still doesn’t explain the origins. And one person’s speculation doesn’t make it true.

Excuse me, but how does that not explain the origins?

The Grand High Sovereign – the future version of the asura player character – made the Steam creatures. This is fact and is their origins.

And who’s speculating here? This comes straight from the horse’s mouth so I’m certainly not speculating.

He’s not from the future. He specifically said he’s from another reality.

Romo.3709:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Romo.3709:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Also, we know the origins of steam creatures. One user on the wiki was just making an edit war claiming that those in Lornar’s Pass may hold a different origin than those in the personal story where it is stated the Grand Sovereign invented them.

Still doesn’t explain the origins. And one person’s speculation doesn’t make it true.

Excuse me, but how does that not explain the origins?

The Grand High Sovereign – the future version of the asura player character – made the Steam creatures. This is fact and is their origins.

And who’s speculating here? This comes straight from the horse’s mouth so I’m certainly not speculating.

He’s not from the future. He specifically said he’s from another reality.

an alternate reality future, one where zojja isn’t around.