Guild Wars 2

An observation regarding the tower and complaints about its difficulty: people are still REALLY bad at the basics of the game and don’t seem to pay much attention to what’s going on around them. The tower is really good at exposing those two issues and punishing offenders accordingly.

I have run bottom to top numerous times in a desperate – and so far futile – bid to get the apparently mythical “green key” (notably even getting multiple keys on level two of only the blue and pink varieties…) and I’ve seen a couple of things over and over and over since the start of this event.

1. People pay no attention to the mines or the rings they create. Repeatedly I’ve seen groups run through the first and third floor mine fields with large numbers of individuals making absolutely no attempt to roll out of the blasts. I even see people who were downed by those blasts later run right next to mines and trigger them even when they could easily run wide around them

2. People repeatedly get hit with the warlock’s Life Blast volley because in Champ fights they just focus fire and ignore everything else. They stand there and watch it coming and don’t even blink, then wonder why they go down as if they just magically lost all their health with no warning

3. Not only do people frequently not bother to try and break cocoons, when cocooned themselves, they often just stand there waiting for others to break them out. Since the damage done by hitting 1 when cocooned is considerable, it makes it very difficult for everyone else to break people out if they don’t participate in the process themselves

4. People STILL, even after Southsun, pay absolutely no attention to stacking confuse and just continue to slap away at buttons even as they do thousands of points of damage to themselves in the process

5. People don’t understand how revives workittenep seeing people stopping an attack on an enemy with low HP that would rez a downed player on death to manually rez the person, even standing in AoE rings to do it so that they then go down as well. Obviously this is somewhat short-circuited by the annoying PvP-kill that was introduced for certain enemies, but many enemies in the tower don’t require that and killing them would still be a superior option to stopping an assault to rez a downed player

6. People will just mindlessly follow a blue hat no matter what even though that means nothing more than that they spent a hefty chunk of gold. On my last run we were running with a Commander who had absolutely NO idea where he was going and people kept following him anyway. I finally gave up and started running ahead to pop champ events so people would follow the map waypoints instead

I agree that there are some design issues with the tower. Notably the problem of having a large group that just runs through an area creating spawns they don’t kill that makes it extremely hard for a smaller group that follows behind to get through. However, it’s sort of hard for me to take complaints about difficulty seriously when I continually see a considerable chunk of the player base simply not exploiting basic controls available to them or applying a basic level of critical thought to their surroundings.

Part of what makes a game a game is that you are given a set of rules by which you operate in order to achieve some goal or best some opponent. If you’re not going to use those tools given to you, you can’t really complain that it’s too hard because you haven’t really tried to play it in the first place.

The problem is the game doesn’t teach the players these things. Unless you go to PvP or WvW or (later on in your levels) do dungeons, there is absolutely NOTHING that shows you how to use the game mechanics or how to do anything in the game. The personal story doesn’t even tell you anything, and its the first “quests” players take.

The only way to learn in this game is through experience, and given that you have to be experienced to begin with in order to be accepted into the things that teach you experience (such as FotM and dungeons), it creates a negative feedback loop that results in the majority of the player population being kind of dumb.

Combine this with most of PvE being mind-numbingly easy due to the developers taking to many shortcuts to make mobs seem hard when they’re not.

Introduce a set of hands-on tutorials at the start of the game and as players reach higher levels and you would see things get alot better. The strange part is, almost every game has this except GW2, Anet just skipped it for some reason.

Its like blaming a kid that can’t write instead of his parents for not schooling him.

I kind of tend to agree with the OP.. I’ve run this area in both berserker gear and defensive/regen spec. It actually amazes me say on Warlock how I was the only one that remained standing when I was sitting in berserker spec.

It’s far easier to run with the zerg; every zerg i’ve gone with kills everything along the way. Trying to run solo however (on level 3) I find next to impossible.. even with a toughness, vitality, regen spec. This is where I think the tower could use some work. Even though the game is basically built around team work, not everybody wants to group up or run with a zerg.

I’ve been playing since launch and didn’t know the “Confuse” thing. I learned most of the things you mention just by playing, but that one was never explained and I never caught on (I did miss Southsun so if it was talked about a lot at that time I missed it).

I figured out the “mines” quickly, but didn’t quite understand the Life Blast thing until someone said something. I was seeing the animation, but since I was focusing so much on not becoming dead I didn’t put 2+2 together until someone said something.

I do think people can be really helpful if we talk to each other in-game. I helped people with understanding the “Toxic Debuff” part of the previous LS achievement multiple times and when we would/would not get credit for a kill – after someone had explained it to me. On one hand, this “tell the players nothing” thing can encourage that kind of helpful interaction and thinking together – on the other, yeah, it would be great to have a “you are new” guide for super basic things like Confusion because that’s just basic game mechanics – especially because this is an MMO with people playing TOGETHER and not Legend of Zelda where you’re sharing tips with other people playing their own totally different solo game where mistakes either of you make won’t really impact the other.

I work and go to college full-time, so while I do log on most every day it’s not for dungeons and things like that, but to do dailies and participate in LS so I haven’t gotten heavily into the “theory” of the game. I was happy that when I did the Toxic Hybrid instance with a PUG that I didn’t drag everyone down. I would love to do more of the dungeon content with other “noobs” like me who are willing to learn as we go because we still have a lot to learn.

The champ warlocks lifeblast attack doesn’t always show up visually.

I wouldn’t call the majority of players dumb, it’s more an issue of being ignorant. The problem is that Anet still advertises that this game can be played the way you want it. Standing in the middle of an aoe for 20 minutes is the way they like to play. They think that this statement applies to everything. This won’t change even if Anet would release a game tutorial of in game mechanics. Most people would even skip that just to play the way THEY want.

Those players get an awakening really fast when it comes to temporary or permanently “challenging” content. Teq, Mad Realm, Tower of Nightmares and even Jormag is to much for some players to handle. Yet those players don’t think it’s their fault but Anets for releasing content that’s impossible to finish.

It’s a matter of time till people start using their head on their own and stop repeating a sentence or statement by a company that just tries to advertise their game. That’s also the day those people stop complaining and we won’t have to revive 25+ players laying in a puddle of aoe toxin, or being called selfish for not wanting to lay on top of them.

After all I am very happy that these people do not spend their time inside the tower any longer. Makes it more enjoyable for me when farming and not having to read the insults some people post on map chat.

Phy.2913:

The champ warlocks lifeblast attack doesn’t always show up visually.

How do they, then ? I assumed it was the green thingies because I kept missing dodging those at first because I didn’t (and still don’t) have the best understanding about how dodging works when there’s a long animation (I didn’t know that by dodging it at first it would evade the entire thing).

I always roll eyes on those who don’t know mechanics of rally and confusion.
Few hours ago, I had to explain to 5 players that if they want to progress further they need to complete the event. It’s really hard to play on european servers where 80% of playerbase don’t understand English, or don’t read UI at all

I always see people split up and let others, who are down, die only to die in the next room and I think, why do they split up? In a group they would have less problems with the content, but they keep banging their head against a wall.

Today, I was there with a three man group and it went really smoothly, in floor three, we rezzed people who were downed and they stayed with us to get this floor done and this was real fun.

Most of the people there are not only ignorant, but also selfish, as long as they can go to the top they don’t care about others.

Remember when daily dodges where first introduced and people had trouble with them — having to find mobs with extremely slow animations in order to dodge successfully?

They obviously weren’t dodging in their day-to-day gameplay. The open world is just too easy. And it can’t be made harder because players aren’t taught the mechanics of the game properly. The open world should have more tutorial content — perhaps skill challenges in the early zones can be modified to serve this purpose.

For the same reason, people have huge trouble in the first dungeon — even though it’s not bad at all if you know the basic mechanics of the game.

I believe you can get green keys as a random drop from the chest at the end of level 2 chambers.

I completely disagree with the opener.

1) When there is a lot of kitten going on and a lot of particle effects on screen, especially in the tight corridors of the tower it is extremely hard to see those red circles that let you know you are standing in something.

2) Players have fewer dodges available than number of things that need to be dodged in the tower.

3) Some of us either lag or just have kittenty reaction times. We are being penalized for things that are essentially out of our control. And then you are calling us crap players simply because we aren’t you.

This content wasn’t challenging, it was just way overtuned. There were too many mobs doing too much damage with too much hp who were given too many CC and debuff abilities.

You hit the nail on the head OP.

Was running with some guildies told them lookout for the explosions from the spores, yet after six times of them getting killed in it I just rage quit.

The same with the random one person running past us and en up dead at the next corner where a explosion got him and he is like screaming rez me rez me.

Some of the places are a bit insane need some work but mostly I feel the same way with people just not paying attentions.

Ellisande.5218:

I completely disagree with the opener.

1) When there is a lot of kitten going on and a lot of particle effects on screen, especially in the tight corridors of the tower it is extremely hard to see those red circles that let you know you are standing in something.

2) Players have fewer dodges available than number of things that need to be dodged in the tower.

3) Some of us either lag or just have kittenty reaction times. We are being penalized for things that are essentially out of our control. And then you are calling us crap players simply because we aren’t you.

This content wasn’t challenging, it was just way overtuned. There were too many mobs doing too much damage with too much hp who were given too many CC and debuff abilities.

I agree 100% plus don’t forget where most die is on the 3rd floor, everyone thinks its cause we suck its never the fact we can’t break combat due its constant effect EVEN while in bubble, and actually heal yourself and/or at least pace it to match your skill or non-OP warrior abilities. I swear the Anet designers don’t play anything but f’n warriors. I’d like to see them try to get thru the 3rd floor with two or three non-stealthy non-OP warrior types. and not get whacked near the end.

i agree to a certain extent. perhaps some of these players are new and HOPEFULLY they learn after being downed a few times.

although, there are certain one-shot mechanics that have no tells in this game. and there’ not much that can be done about that, ESPECIALLY if you’re with a zerg and half your screen is covered in particle effects. not complaining, just that i felt some of your observations were slgihtly unfair. : ))

very good points though and hopefully more people becaome aware of these thigns – rezzing vs rallying, confusion self-drops, etc etc

Ceallach.8740:

Phy.2913:

The champ warlocks lifeblast attack doesn’t always show up visually.

How do they, then ? I assumed it was the green thingies because I kept missing dodging those at first because I didn’t (and still don’t) have the best understanding about how dodging works when there’s a long animation (I didn’t know that by dodging it at first it would evade the entire thing).

1/3 volleys would be invisible on my screen.

Black Regent.5897:

1. People pay no attention to the mines or the rings they create. Repeatedly I’ve seen groups run through the first and third floor mine fields with large numbers of individuals making absolutely no attempt to roll out of the blasts. I even see people who were downed by those blasts later run right next to mines and trigger them even when they could easily run wide around them

This is a bit short sighted. Most of the times I’ve been downed by those stacks of mines is because I’m out of energy. I simply cannot roll out of two circles when I’ve just rolled out of another AoE circle. Also, people can get disoriented, after being blasted by a mine and roll/run into another one, trying to get away from it. And thirdly, and I don’t think I’m alone in this, I’ve rolled in completely different directions than I wanted to, especially in tense fights. So, there are several (valid) reasons why people don’t roll out of (or roll into) a blast area.

Black Regent.5897:

2. People repeatedly get hit with the warlock’s Life Blast volley because in Champ fights they just focus fire and ignore everything else. They stand there and watch it coming and don’t even blink, then wonder why they go down as if they just magically lost all their health with no warning

Not everybody is as good in reacting quickly, or has a good situational awareness sense. That doesn’t mean they’re bad players, it just means they shouldn’t lead.

Black Regent.5897:

4. People STILL, even after Southsun, pay absolutely no attention to stacking confuse and just continue to slap away at buttons even as they do thousands of points of damage to themselves in the process

Please tell me how I can stop attacking. As escape often doesn’t work for me (and my character keeps on attacking). The only way I can stop attacking is turning my back to the foe…

Black Regent.5897:

5. People don’t understand how revives workittenep seeing people stopping an attack on an enemy with low HP that would rez a downed player on death to manually rez the person, even standing in AoE rings to do it so that they then go down as well. Obviously this is somewhat short-circuited by the annoying PvP-kill that was introduced for certain enemies, but many enemies in the tower don’t require that and killing them would still be a superior option to stopping an assault to rez a downed player

That also depends on the situation. Sometimes you should revive (especially if you see the person is getting very low in health and the foe is still high in health or needs to be finished) and sometimes you should just kill the foe. As a ranger, I usually do both. I set my pet to attack the foe (hoping it’ll be killed before the person dies) while I keep the person alive with my reviving.

Black Regent.5897:

6. People will just mindlessly follow a blue hat no matter what even though that means nothing more than that they spent a hefty chunk of gold. On my last run we were running with a Commander who had absolutely NO idea where he was going and people kept following him anyway. I finally gave up and started running ahead to pop champ events so people would follow the map waypoints instead

Yes, I 1000% agree with that. People don’t want to think for themselves, or so it seems and just follow anybody around that can be followed around…

While I don’t consider myself a bad player, nor great, but somewhat above average, I have to admit that I’m guilty of a couple of these points you bring up.

However, in my defence, I find it very hard to keep an overview over combat when so much is going on at the same time. I’ll take the champion spider’s cocoons as an example.

You can see the cocoons made more often than not. So I’d go damage it. In the meantime there are red rings and mines popping up everywhere. Sometimes the mines detonate, but sometimes they are just visual glitches. Meanwhile there is so much sparkle flowing around and people going everywhere that it’s not always clear if there’s enemies around to kill so others can rez and they might be of the Sylvari kind making it even less clear.

I mean you make good points and these things should be considered when there’s only a few people playing, but in a huge sparkling mess I find it really difficult to keep reacting correctly to everything.

Ellisande.5218:

I completely disagree with the opener.

1) When there is a lot of kitten going on and a lot of particle effects on screen, especially in the tight corridors of the tower it is extremely hard to see those red circles that let you know you are standing in something.

2) Players have fewer dodges available than number of things that need to be dodged in the tower.

3) Some of us either lag or just have kittenty reaction times. We are being penalized for things that are essentially out of our control. And then you are calling us crap players simply because we aren’t you.

This content wasn’t challenging, it was just way overtuned. There were too many mobs doing too much damage with too much hp who were given too many CC and debuff abilities.

1.) i agree with this point, in certain situations you just can’t see the circles from all the effects. However, this is not really an excuse for ppl standing in the circles while there aren’t so many effects around, or just walking straight into triggered and clearly visible circles as if not knowing what will happen. Seen this countless times.

2.) People have 2 dodges, some classes like thief can dodge a bit more often, but eg. when i’m out of dodges and trigger a plant, i just run back out of its red circle. Also, i can see that i’m approaching the kitten thing so i don’t try to run past it with zero energy but try to step close enough to trigger it and then step back out of range. It’s not that hard.

3.) Some of us lag and have crappy reaction times. If that’s the case you clearly shouldn’t be offended because you know that it’s not your fault. But some people really just don’t pay attention to things. Which only bothers me when they cause a zerg to wipe out and leave downed players to die, just to run straight into a mine and die themselves.

At first, i also thought this content was overwhelming, i even doubted i could make it to the top of that towet. But after numerous attempts i got the hang of it pretty quickly, and i’m no great player, hell i can’t even concentrate on 2 things simultaneously IRL.

I agree whit OP.
As for that post whit lack of tutorials, its only 50% of game or dev fault that players cant play well because of lack of explenations/tutorials in said game.
I mean, i play the same game as the new players and yet i knew almost all condition and mechanics this game has to ofer in 1st day, am i genius or something that i decided to read some sites with info/guide about this game so i wont cause problems to other players. I think its normal to learn thing or two about the game you are going to play , especialy if its mmo.

Also so people dont think that im rageing or something, im not trying to be an as* hole by saying all that, im just stateing the obvious.
I understand that learning take time, but if game dosnt give you enough information why dont you try to look for them somewher else like gw2 wiki or even gw2 oficial forum.

p.s. when people say to learn to dodge, they dont mean to dodge every single attacks, cause that impossible(endurance limit), they simply want you to learn what you should dodge and what you can take on, cause not every single attack will 1-shot you, and ther are also other ways of avoiding takeing damage(blind, block, sometimes even just moveing out of the way).

Cold Hearted Person.6154:

I agree whit OP.
As for that post whit lack of tutorials, its only 50% of game or dev fault that players cant play well because of lack of explenations/tutorials in said game.
I mean, i play the same game as the new players and yet i knew almost all condition and mechanics this game has to ofer in 1st day, am i genius or something that i decided to read some sites with info/guide about this game so i wont cause problems to other players. I think its normal to learn thing or two about the game you are going to play , especialy if its mmo.

Some people like to read things up front. Others (like me) like to learn the mechanics in the game by actually playing the game. I ignored everything published before the game came out as I didn’t want my surprise ruined.

And people make mistakes. Simple as that. However good somebody is, he will make a mistake at some points. And in this tower, a simple mistake (like not keeping one dodge available at all times) can cost you your life. And with a small area, lots of foes, incorrectly scaled foes, and releashing of drag-alongs, a small mistake is very easily made.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Cold Hearted Person.6154:

I agree whit OP.
As for that post whit lack of tutorials, its only 50% of game or dev fault that players cant play well because of lack of explenations/tutorials in said game.
I mean, i play the same game as the new players and yet i knew almost all condition and mechanics this game has to ofer in 1st day, am i genius or something that i decided to read some sites with info/guide about this game so i wont cause problems to other players. I think its normal to learn thing or two about the game you are going to play , especialy if its mmo.

Some people like to read things up front. Others (like me) like to learn the mechanics in the game by actually playing the game. I ignored everything published before the game came out as I didn’t want my surprise ruined.

And people make mistakes. Simple as that. However good somebody is, he will make a mistake at some points. And in this tower, a simple mistake (like not keeping one dodge available at all times) can cost you your life. And with a small area, lots of foes, incorrectly scaled foes, and releashing of drag-alongs, a small mistake is very easily made.

You know, if you dont want to read some info on the net despite the fact that game dosent provide that info, than its mainly your fault if you fail at something in that game.
Game had failed by not having that info, but its only 50% of fault other 50 its your fault for not looking for that info in diferrent sources.

Also OP dosent state that “pro” players dont make mistakes, its true that everyone makes mistakes, but if someone make the same mistake 3+ times in a row, it mean something, right?

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Most of the times I’ve been downed by those stacks of mines is because I’m out of energy.

So are you unwilling to compensate for that by using different traits or foods? My wife was having the same problem until I mailed her a stack of ten “Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew.” That’s 5 hours of increased energy regeneration right there. As the OP stated, it is for the most part a l2p issue and people are just too complacent or ignorant to adapt.

I’m one of those who reads things outside of the game because I enjoy the research. I play with someone who doesn’t because that makes it less of a game and more like work to them. To them, the fun is in figuring things out within the game.

I’ve had no problem getting through when people stick together and kill the foes instead of training foes along, spreading out into a long thin line of people with more and more foes behind, dying one by one, with eventually the result being dead people splattered along the path.

Learn to play. Magical words if there ever were. There’s a skillset requirement for this patch. You don’t have to know ALL the skills available in the game, or ALL the tips and tricks, but you do need a minimum. Instead of the discussion that questions the player’s competence on a personal level, a better discussion is how the average player gets or learns the skillset for this patch.

Is going outside the game to read up an acceptable requirement? Is getting with a guild that is helpful enough to train the player an acceptable requirement? Is somehow being wonderful a video games an acceptable requirement. That’s the discussion we should be having. Not another tired thread complaining about the complainers. If the player base doesn’t want to learn the game, they sorta deserve to die. Whether the content is fair with the skillset requirement is another matter.

My opinion is that it is high for this one. I’m not great, I’m better than the average (I’m assuming) and it’s still tough for me – I haven’t learned to play this one yet. Will I invest my time in learning this patch when there’s so much more to do in the game? Probably not.

“Please tell me how I can stop attacking. As escape often doesn’t work for me (and my character keeps on attacking). The only way I can stop attacking is turning my back to the foe…”

Just click on something that’s not an enemy. You’ll stop attacking. Or you can clear the condition.

People are lazy, mash buttons, and leave others to pick up the slack they create. It’s how the world works. If I join a pug and see more lazy people than actual players who want to be better, I just leave mid-dungeon. I don’t bother even wasting my breath anymore. Whatev.

KyreneZA.8617:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Most of the times I’ve been downed by those stacks of mines is because I’m out of energy.

So are you unwilling to compensate for that by using different traits or foods? My wife was having the same problem until I mailed her a stack of ten “Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew.” That’s 5 hours of increased energy regeneration right there. As the OP stated, it is for the most part a l2p issue and people are just too complacent or ignorant to adapt.

I play a ranger, which means I already have a faster regen of energy. And I still sometimes run out of energy. Sometimes because of a silly mistake (whoops, didn’t mean to dodgeroll there…) and sometimes because of massive AoE where even two dodge rolls won’t get you out in time. And if you’re walking around near those bombs, they can spawn right underneath you, and without dodge roll, you cannot walk out of range in time.

RoseofGilead.8907:

“Please tell me how I can stop attacking. As escape often doesn’t work for me (and my character keeps on attacking). The only way I can stop attacking is turning my back to the foe…”

Just click on something that’s not an enemy. You’ll stop attacking. Or you can clear the condition.

Does a search on condition removal for ranger

Nope, only a passive one that activates every 10 seconds. Or a spring that is only useful if you stay put.

And clicking something that isn’t an enemy? What can I click in that tower?

I think the learn to play card is played way too often. I know exactly how to play this game, but that doesn’t mean I should like OP effects we see in the tower: massive respawn rate, elite foes when there’s only player around, massive AoE without any place to hide. I think it’s a cheap way of “increasing” difficulty and, at least for me, absolutely not fun. And the average player might be able to deal with two of those effects, but a third one might just confuse them so much, that they’ll start making stupid mistakes they wouldn’t make during normal gameplay.

LadyRhonwyn.2501

“I think the learn to play card is played way too often. I know exactly how to play this game, but that doesn’t mean I should like OP effects we see in the tower: massive respawn rate, elite foes when there’s only player around, massive AoE without any place to hide. I think it’s a cheap way of “increasing” difficulty and, at least for me, absolutely not fun. And the average player might be able to deal with two of those effects, but a third one might just confuse them so much, that they’ll start making stupid mistakes they wouldn’t make during normal gameplay.”

Yes I have to agree with this, there’s only so much you can do to combat all the stuff going on, often trying to get through a trail of mobs left by other people.

I don’t find it fun, or clever of Anet, and agree it’s just cheap “content” if you can even call it that.

The design of the tower is brilliant, but there’s no real tactics, it’s just a mess of mobs, mines and overlapping red circles, when you can even see them.

Anet can do better, lets have stuff where tactics and planning come into it, like UW and FOW in GW1.

Edit…………….

Just seems every post I read when people say they are having problems or don’t like the content is the same, L2P, zerg it, get in a party, guest to another server, I killed the champ/elite/everything solo, I ran solo to the top in 10 minutes with my level 63 (Insert prof here).

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

And clicking something that isn’t an enemy? What can I click in that tower?

I think many people encounter this problem (not knowing how to stop attacking) and we really don’t have a clear method to stop. What i usually do is click an empty spot on the ground or the sky or somewhere where there’s no enemy nearby. But i can see that in the tower this can be difficult. So the other thing i do is that i have “draw/seathe weapon” bound to a button and when i want to stop attacking i just seathe my weapon with that button. (This way the character doesn’t draw it again, even if it is hit. It’s only drawn when you attack manually)
Hope i could help.

Ellisande.5218:

I completely disagree with the opener.

(…)

We are being penalized for things that are essentially out of our control. And then you are calling us crap players simply because we aren’t you.

This content wasn’t challenging, it was just way overtuned. There were too many mobs doing too much damage with too much hp who were given too many CC and debuff abilities.

Is this serious!?!? People find the tower “hard content”? I am amazed. Finally content that requires me to play my abilities and think a bit about which skills to choose! Yeah! But ‘hard’? No. Not even close to hard.

I cleared it on second evening with my Ranger, then again a few times with my Zerk Guardian. The “3rd floor run” to get to top is a bit tricky, but nothing that cannot be compensated by using a minimal level of thinking and planning – choose your skills well and time your dodges. I bet most of those who QQ did not even bother respecc to skills that grant Stability or stun-breaks.

And of course, those same players that find the tower hard do not make it easier on themselves by keyboard-turning….

Zel

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

KyreneZA.8617:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Most of the times I’ve been downed by those stacks of mines is because I’m out of energy.

So are you unwilling to compensate for that by using different traits or foods? My wife was having the same problem until I mailed her a stack of ten “Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew.” That’s 5 hours of increased energy regeneration right there. As the OP stated, it is for the most part a l2p issue and people are just too complacent or ignorant to adapt.

I play a ranger, which means I already have a faster regen of energy. And I still sometimes run out of energy. Sometimes because of a silly mistake (whoops, didn’t mean to dodgeroll there…) and sometimes because of massive AoE where even two dodge rolls won’t get you out in time. And if you’re walking around near those bombs, they can spawn right underneath you, and without dodge roll, you cannot walk out of range in time.

RoseofGilead.8907:

“Please tell me how I can stop attacking. As escape often doesn’t work for me (and my character keeps on attacking). The only way I can stop attacking is turning my back to the foe…”

Just click on something that’s not an enemy. You’ll stop attacking. Or you can clear the condition.

Does a search on condition removal for ranger

Nope, only a passive one that activates every 10 seconds. Or a spring that is only useful if you stay put.

And clicking something that isn’t an enemy? What can I click in that tower?

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I think the learn to play card is played way too often. I know exactly how to play this game, but that doesn’t mean I should like OP effects we see in the tower: massive respawn rate, elite foes when there’s only player around, massive AoE without any place to hide. I think it’s a cheap way of “increasing” difficulty and, at least for me, absolutely not fun. And the average player might be able to deal with two of those effects, but a third one might just confuse them so much, that they’ll start making stupid mistakes they wouldn’t make during normal gameplay.

You don’t know how to turn off your autoattack or stow your weapons away?

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

I think the learn to play card is played way too often. I know exactly how to play this game, but that doesn’t mean I should like OP effects we see in the tower: massive respawn rate, elite foes when there’s only player around, massive AoE without any place to hide. I think it’s a cheap way of “increasing” difficulty and, at least for me, absolutely not fun. And the average player might be able to deal with two of those effects, but a third one might just confuse them so much, that they’ll start making stupid mistakes they wouldn’t make during normal gameplay.

While I partly agree with you objections, and for the record (since you may have missed it in my signature) I play a ranger too, in this case you don’t (yet) know how to play this content. You seem unable to adapt to this more difficult content and come across as simply lumping it in a convenient ‘ArenaNet made cheap OP content again’ QQ basket.

I too died a lot more the first few times I tried getting anywhere in the tower, but I adapted after learning when and where to run, where to dodge and where to stand and fight before moving on. There are safe spots. There are areas where you should cleanse conditions as fast as possible and others where you needn’t. There are times to help fallen players and places you should just leave the ‘weak’ (those that have not learned your lessons yet) behind.

As always, you are free to play—or not play—any released content. If you choose not to, make peace with your decision and move on.

_KyreneZA.8617

“As always, you are free to play—or not play—any released content. If you choose not to, make peace with your decision and move on.”_

I think you’ll find that they would prefer people to “play” the content, rather than just skip it.

If people find the content too hard or frustrating, they will likely “move on” to another game.

There’s a happy medium to be found here, and I don’t think ArenaNet has quite reached it yet.

Hannelore.8153:

The problem is the game doesn’t teach the players these things. Unless you go to PvP or WvW or (later on in your levels) do dungeons, there is absolutely NOTHING that shows you how to use the game mechanics or how to do anything in the game. The personal story doesn’t even tell you anything, and its the first “quests” players take.

Edit

Introduce a set of hands-on tutorials at the start of the game and as players reach higher levels and you would see things get alot better. The strange part is, almost every game has this except GW2, Anet just skipped it for some reason.

Its like blaming a kid that can’t write instead of his parents for not schooling him.

YES! Kitten yes!

ArenaNet has this unfortunate tendency to expect players to have telepathic powers and just understand the game mechanics by touching the keyboards. Making great game mechanics is only half of the job of a game developer IMO. The other half is making sure your players fully understand those mechanics, because if they don’t the best mechanics in the world don’t matter.

This was a big problem in GW1 where the game did little to explain itself. If you wanted to avoid completely making a kitten character you needed to do a good deal of out-of-game research. It’s unfortunate to still see the same tendencies (although lessened somewhat) with GW2.

I suspect ArenaNet put in the Dodge Daily and the WvW Badge of Honor Daily in an effort to get players to understand how they worked. This is indirect and inefficient. The game itself should clearly explain these mechanics, not just try and push players into looking them up.

The ironic thing is that video games are an excellent way to teach people. The military and FAA use video games for training all the time. It’s bizarre to see a game company not using the tremendous teaching capacity of games to teach players the mechanics of the game.

Tutorials are sorely, sorely needed for GW2. I’ve heard they are planned to be implemented for the China-release of GW2 which means that ArenaNet seems to finally be recognizing their importance. We can hope that we will see Western versions of the tutorials released as well. They should be made accessible to level cap characters and perhaps even offer rewards to do them to make up for their lack on release.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Remember when daily dodges where first introduced and people had trouble with them — having to find mobs with extremely slow animations in order to dodge successfully?

They obviously weren’t dodging in their day-to-day gameplay. The open world is just too easy. And it can’t be made harder because players aren’t taught the mechanics of the game properly. The open world should have more tutorial content — perhaps skill challenges in the early zones can be modified to serve this purpose.

I wanted to comment on this. My initial problem with the Daily Dodger was that I was always avoiding the attacks of high level attacks before the ‘Evade’ proc would occur. The attack would still miss but one wouldn’t get any credit on the Daily count.

Eventually I realized I had to either deliberately slow down my dodge to get the ‘Evade’ proc on high level mobs or I had to find low level mobs which had a much longer attack time and would get ‘Evade’ proc even if you did it early.

The upshot is that this was a less than effective way to get players to learn to properly dodge. I agree entirely with you that the open world should have more tutorial content. Modifying the existing Skill Challenges is a good idea but tutorial content needs to be very accessible. Of course, there’s nothing wrong with designing multiple layers of such content. A tutorial combined with Skill Challenges or a PS mission that focuses on dodging or crafting or other mechanics could be good reinforcement.

I can mostly get from the bottom to the top with no issues, provided:

1. I don’t get blocked off by a Group Event. Sometimes, if it hasn’t been scaled up, I’ve been able to complete them solo, but if I get the Champ Spider? Forget it. There’s no way I’m getting past her alone.

2. Some players run past from behind me and train a bunch of Elites/Veterans onto me. If this happens I try to break off the fight and join the others in running, but other times I get immobilised and/or Feared in the wrong direction and end up going down.

With regards to the mines, it’s much easier to watch the mines themselves than look out for the red circles. The mines flash for a second before exploding, so if you’re forced to run through a patch (always go around them if you can), keep an eye on them and dodge if you see the warning sign.

Of course, if you’re in a group, it’s easiest to go “third”, since the first guy triggers the mines (but is usually Swifted or dodging so he doesn’t get hurt), but the second guy is likely to run into them. Wait for the mines to explode first before following.

Arah p4 Lyssa fight is the most effective way to learn not to DPS while confused. 25 stacks = instadowned

Hannelore.8153:

The problem is the game doesn’t teach the players these things. Unless you go to PvP or WvW or (later on in your levels) do dungeons, there is absolutely NOTHING that shows you how to use the game mechanics or how to do anything in the game. The personal story doesn’t even tell you anything, and its the first “quests” players take.

slurpey.6014:

I wouldn’t call the majority of players dumb, it’s more an issue of being ignorant.

I’m sorry but if you get to lvl 80 and haven’t figured out 90% of the kitten OP is talking about, “cognitively limited” is the best I can say about you.

How big a tutorial do you need for “dodge red circle that kills you!” ? If you need to hit a mine more than once to figure out “go in range, circle pops up, 2-3 seconds and you go boom” you’re not exactly bright.

In 80 levels you never had an hint that, maybe, dodging high damage moves is a good idea? You’ve never learned how rallying works? You’ve never had or witnessed a rally in PvE? I’m, therefore, assuming you’ve never done PvP or WvW at all, nor have you ever even gone through Heart of the Mists, since the first time you go there you’re treated to a mini-tutorial.

I never expect the average player to be as “good” at gaming stuff as I am. I realize that even though I’m hardly the best I do spend more time doing this than many other people… But good heavens, I’m not asking you to do a rocket jump railgun headshot or anything like that. I’m not asking for a sako-combo, or a godkitten perfect score…. Just be barely competent. It’s not that most players aren’t amazing, it’s that they’re kittening horrible…. They can’t figure kitten like “RED CIRCLES ARE BAD MHHKAY?!” out for months. How?

It baffles me that this has been out for days, and even on levels 2 and 3 (i.e.: not people that just walked into the tower for the first time) I see people continuously running into the mushroom-mines like lemmings. I saw people continuously dying to the first 3 bosses of the Queen’s Gauntlet! I see people dying to kittening VETERANS their level, one on one!

Good heavens, how do some people manage to not kill themselves on a daily basis?

ProxyDamage.9826:

Hannelore.8153:

The problem is the game doesn’t teach the players these things. Unless you go to PvP or WvW or (later on in your levels) do dungeons, there is absolutely NOTHING that shows you how to use the game mechanics or how to do anything in the game. The personal story doesn’t even tell you anything, and its the first "quests" players take.

slurpey.6014:

I wouldn’t call the majority of players dumb, it’s more an issue of being ignorant.

I’m sorry but if you get to lvl 80 and haven’t figured out 90% of the kitten OP is talking about, "cognitively limited" is the best I can say about you.

How big a tutorial do you need for "dodge red circle that kills you!" ? If you need to hit a mine more than once to figure out "go in range, circle pops up, 2-3 seconds and you go boom" you’re not exactly bright.

In 80 levels you never had an hint that, maybe, dodging high damage moves is a good idea? You’ve _never_ learned how rallying works? You’ve _never_ had or witnessed a rally in PvE? I’m, therefore, assuming you’ve never done PvP or WvW at all, nor have you ever even gone through Heart of the Mists, since the first time you go there you’re treated to a mini-tutorial.

I never expect the average player to be as "good" at gaming stuff as I am. I realize that even though I’m hardly the best I do spend more time doing this than many other people... But good heavens, I’m not asking you to do a rocket jump railgun headshot or anything like that. I’m not asking for a sako-combo, or a godkitten perfect score.... Just be barely competent. It’s not that most players aren’t amazing, it’s that they’re kittening horrible.... They can’t figure kitten like "RED CIRCLES ARE BAD MHHKAY?!" out for months. How?

It baffles me that this has been out for days, and even on levels 2 and 3 (i.e.: not people that just walked into the tower for the first time) I see people continuously running into the mushroom-mines like lemmings. I saw people continuously dying to the first 3 bosses of the Queen’s Gauntlet! I see people dying to kittening *VETERANS* their level, one on one!

Good heavens, how do some people manage to not kill themselves on a daily basis?

Ah, you’re not sorry at all. :P

Maybe a fair whack of people running the tower aren’t technically level 80 with a year or more experience behind them. They might not have those cognitive abilities at your level. Indeed, they might be without other skills you take for granted and not just in the game, either - I, for example, have photo-sensitive epilepsy, depth perception issues, plus a touch of arthritis in the hands, and believe me when I say as much as I rock, I can lose the epicness in the next moment with little warning.

There are a stack of other reasons, some mentioned in the thread, some not. If you can think of something (however much it baffles you), then it’s a reason why another player isn’t doing so well (it’s sort of like rule 34*). Your next choice, of course, is if you actually want to be proactive in finding out from the horse’s mouth - not that that’s entirely practical, of course, but it’s a new tower challenge for those who excel. You don’t get any achievements, however, but perhaps a warm glowy feeling you didn’t realise you were missing until saving the horse from being glue.

Of course, there could always be this:

They may also have inadvertently turned their red circles off. Which would be problematic when being told to dodge out of the red stuff.

* Which reminds me of the lemmings you spoke of. Perhaps someone is taking video of the proceedings and having fun in a masochistic way. Yes, it could be intentional stupid death ftw that day.

If a person has red color deficiency, the AoE circles may be invisible. Players may not be aware that there are circles meant to be seen.

Yeah that “mines” especially are a problem at spider queen where they get spawned fast while people AoEing the queen are just standing there and then a lot get downed… when it is so easy to just move around and avoid them(but still a bit harder with other people triggering them).