Guild Wars 2

The release page said content is available until the heart of the tower is destroyed. Does this mean that the the tower is temporary?

As in, it gets destroyed, leaving no trace of it left and theres no core content additions that comes out of these updates?

Hey now. For all we know, it will take 2 years to effectively kill the heart of the tower.

more like 1 shot of a vigil megalaser

Its a story…. whats the alternative…. Scarlet wins, Krait and Nightmare court turn out to be unbeatable, nightmare tower here to stay cause players cant do anything about it?

Galen Grey.4709:

Its a story…. whats the alternative…. Scarlet wins, Krait and Nightmare court turn out to be unbeatable, nightmare tower here to stay cause players cant do anything about it?

Tower is indestructible/potentially too dangerous to be destroyed. Scarlet dies, Toxic Alliance decides to stay together under new leadership. There are really a lot of ways you can go.

I’m with Valenthor. Plenty of creative ways to keep the tower. Partially destroyed, lingering toxins, too risky to destroy completely, become a haunted krait burial tower…..Plenty of ways to progress the story & still make it permanent.

It just says that this content wont be available. Unlike the past updates, this one has a large impression on the map of Kessex Hills. I do remember a post somewhere from a developer that this will be a change that will last some time. If we do take the tower down in two weeks time, I don’t think it will just vanish. There will be more to the story.

i hate the argument about no core updates… play the game in 2 weeks you wont wanna see the tower so whats it matter when its gone

BlackWolf.8605:

i hate the argument about no core updates… play the game in 2 weeks you wont wanna see the tower so whats it matter when its gone

That’s the problem.

They;re coming out with all these trivial updates which no one cares about after a week. FotM was made a year ago, everyone still runs it daily. That’s what you call a core update.

I haven’t been back to Divinity’s Reach in a while, but last time I was there the Queens’ Pavilion was still standing and had not reverted into a giant hole in the ground.

If I was working on the game and I had made such a drastic change to a map, I’d be certain that once the temporary content was over that there would be a lasting remnant (such as a ruined tower and some lingering corruption, possibly a modification to a Renown Heart or two).

This update for me:

Pros: None

Cons: Recycled garbage, Indoor Zergs.

Excitement: None, I just keep doing what I do daily.

Galen Grey.4709:

Its a story…. whats the alternative…. Scarlet wins, Krait and Nightmare court turn out to be unbeatable, nightmare tower here to stay cause players cant do anything about it?

Nightmare Krait betray Scarlet, she turns coat to briefly help us while “promising” to turn herself in at the end, she doesn’t, Nightmare Krait eventually kill her but are very weakened now.

Her last words are ramblings about all her toys and some experiment to take on a Crystal Dragon. She dies.

Nightmare Krait still become a menace to us, but lost a lot of power due to our accomplishments, Scarlet dies (waiting for applause to die down before continuing) but leaves a tease about potential plot point ANet could pick up some day in the far future.

Valenthor.4052:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its a story…. whats the alternative…. Scarlet wins, Krait and Nightmare court turn out to be unbeatable, nightmare tower here to stay cause players cant do anything about it?

Tower is indestructible/potentially too dangerous to be destroyed. Scarlet dies, Toxic Alliance decides to stay together under new leadership. There are really a lot of ways you can go.

wouldnt that mean we cannot win? All Scarlet has to do is stay out of sight let Krait and Nightmare court do their thing. Eventually the spores would spread the whole of Tyria goes mad . I personally would rather we blow it up to pieces then have it available through the mists as a sort of historical event.

Atlas.9704:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its a story…. whats the alternative…. Scarlet wins, Krait and Nightmare court turn out to be unbeatable, nightmare tower here to stay cause players cant do anything about it?

Nightmare Krait betray Scarlet, she turns coat to briefly help us while “promising” to turn herself in at the end, she doesn’t, Nightmare Krait eventually kill her but are very weakened now.

Her last words are ramblings about all her toys and some experiment to take on a Crystal Dragon. She dies.

Nightmare Krait still become a menace to us, but lost a lot of power due to our accomplishments, Scarlet dies (waiting for applause to die down before continuing) but leaves a tease about potential plot point ANet could pick up some day in the far future.

A few issues with this story.

1. The only reason why the Krait are working with the nightmare court is because Scarlet promised them the obelisks and a means to get their prophets back. They’re extremely xenophobic and view all races as inferior, imagine a race thats merely a few decades old. Scarlet has a big hold on the Krait, if they betray anyone it will be the nightmare court not Scarlet.

2. Scarlet would never, ever … EVER come to the players for help. She has her clockwork, she has the steam creatures and never mind the molten alliance and aetherblades. Even if that wasnt enough she’s resourceful. she already got 6 groups of diverse cultures to work together for her. That’s including this last group thats essentially an impossible alliance. I am sure if she needed more power she could persuade others to join her cause and she would not owe anyone anything and more importantly then that she wouldnt have to give up her freedom.

3. Scarlet has seen the meaning of the universe. Do you seriously expect her to ever do anything that has her go from seeing everything to living in a tiny cell voluntarily? That would be actual bad writing.

4. A very weakened nightmare alliance is impossible to beat?

5. With Scarlet dead what possible reason would the Krait have to continue their collaboration with the nightmare court?

Arena will not admit it openly (and I understand that of course) but I am almost certain that the whole temporary content gimmick is going here to stay. At least for as long as they dont take a big paradigm shift with their intentions. It’s not some random idea or experiment. Its a carefuly planned and executed business plan. Most people hate the idea of this “available for two weeks only” routine but I suppose they calculated that this will bring them better retention and profit. Creating a sense of urgency and trying to addict players, that is what they aim at. I just really hope for their own and GW2’s sake that it will not bite them in the kitten at some point (ie. with the amount of people fed up with the temporary rush reaching critical mass and doing more harm than good for the condition and population of the game).

Galen Grey.4709:

Its a story…. whats the alternative…. Scarlet wins, Krait and Nightmare court turn out to be unbeatable, nightmare tower here to stay cause players cant do anything about it?

We also beat Zhaitan but his minions are still running around everywhere. I am personally getting sick of all this temporary content, i want more stuff that will stay around other than crappy minigames that noone likes or plays. I want more permanent content that they actual put effort into rather than temporary content that is riddled with bugs until they day it gets taken down. I want more updates that fix bugs and bad design that has been around since day 1, like everything in the orr zones.

The only reason why the Krait are working with the nightmare court is because Scarlet promised them the obelisks and a means to get their prophets back. They’re extremely xenophobic and view all races as inferior, imagine a race thats merely a few decades old. Scarlet has a big hold on the Krait, if they betray anyone it will be the nightmare court not Scarlet.

I agree on the first part, but I still can’t stomach the idea that this extremely xenophobic race can be handled by such upstart youngling races.
In my earlier writing I can still see the Krait go blood mad against Scarlet, true they would also attack the Court and I’m perfectly fine with this.

Honestly I don’t care that she has a big hold on them. You promise a group of religious xenophobes the return of their prophet and then don’t deliver.

Then count the seconds before they try to make you a sacrifice, I bet it would be a short time.

Galen Grey.4709:

3. Scarlet has seen the meaning of the universe. Do you seriously expect her to ever do anything that has her go from seeing everything to living in a tiny cell voluntarily? That would be actual bad writing.

Rule number (random number inserted here) on being a bad guy: always lie.
This is why “promising" was in quotes, she wouldn’t really and the players know it.
As for the rest of the characters, well they haven’t been so bright with this leaf being the main villain lately so I would not be surprised if they think now’s our chance.

As players we’d just simply tick off the seconds before she tried to slip away from us, but

4. A very weakened nightmare alliance is impossible to beat?

Never said impossible to beat. In fact I’m rereading my earlier post and can’t even find the part where that’s implied. All I’m saying is Nightmare powered Toxic Krait can still be a thing on this map after the release is done. I’ll go even further in breaking this down and add that it could very well be possible to allow them a fight against the Court elements that betrayed them after they killed Scarlet.

Yes I know, Court potions and magic were a factor in making them toxic. Then have them scrounge up the notes from the corpses of these plants. There wouldn’t be a lot of Nightmare Krait, these toxic abominations, after the release is done. They would be rare enemies to kill, something to break up the numbers of normal Krait we’ve been skinning for a while.

5. With Scarlet dead what possible reason would the Krait have to continue their collaboration with the nightmare court?

Going back to point 4, I’m totally fine with the Krait just going blood thirsty and killing the Court splinter that helped them. Maybe the Courts’ poisons help fuel their power boost like Bane Venom in the Batman universe. This way the only thing keeping them alive is their skill to trade with the Krait.

At the very best for the Court it becomes a horrible drug dealer/user relationship with the Court elements still in some measure of power.

At the absolute worst for them, it turns into a master/slave relationship with the Krait constantly keeping them on their toes. They never know when they’ll die. They could try to escape, but then they will probably be killed.

Without the alliance, the special Toxic infused Nightmare Krait would fall in numbers.
Their potential rise would be diminished like a collapsing star. Showing how a folly can befell a race, much like the mighty Jotun now aren’t even a powerful race anymore. The Krait’s evil tendencies yet again brought them doom.

I know I’m going a bit long in this post, but ANet could have really workable alliances without Scarlet. The Molten were an okay example of this, the Aetherblades were a better example of this. The Toxic… not really so well thought out when you really put together how fracking blood thirsty and evil the Krait are.

The Court aren’t even up to that level of pure hatred yet.

Whatever, kill her off or send her far away so better writing attempts can be made.

Finaldeath.1059:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its a story…. whats the alternative…. Scarlet wins, Krait and Nightmare court turn out to be unbeatable, nightmare tower here to stay cause players cant do anything about it?

We also beat Zhaitan but his minions are still running around everywhere. I am personally getting sick of all this temporary content, i want more stuff that will stay around other than crappy minigames that noone likes or plays. I want more permanent content that they actual put effort into rather than temporary content that is riddled with bugs until they day it gets taken down. I want more updates that fix bugs and bad design that has been around since day 1, like everything in the orr zones.

And the living world is an initiative to solve that exact problem. how many people dont like the fact beating zhaitan doesnt change anything?

They have stated that there will be permanent changes to Kessex Hills as a result of this. What exactly we don’t know, maybe it’s going to remain as an open world dungeon to some degree, maybe one massive glorious jumping puzzle, maybe even a pile of rubble… we simply don’t know what’s staying or going.

@Atlas

Who says she isn’t able to deliver? we dont know what seeing the fabric of reality did to her but for one thing she managed to get to the steam creates which arent of this time and space according the dynamic events and personal story related to the steam creatures.

She simply doesnt need us so why even do the charade in the first place?

If we beat them it doesnt make sense that they would stick around! Beating them means killing them all or having them retreat in either case staying in the area wouldnt be realistic. Just like stopping the molten alliance meant invasion stopped and stopping the aetherblades meant raids stopped. You might encounter them here and there again, of course its impossible to fully defeat an opponent there will always be elements remaining but those elements can be running around in the open because if they did we’d attack them and stop them.

I dont agree. Giving a religious zealous the object of his worship is plenty of motivation to have them do what you want even if it might go against their very nature. I mean even without actually give them the object of their worship religion has in the past been used to do stuff people dont condone. Just look at the dark ages, more then one religion was used to justify killing and torture even though said religion strictly prohibited it and you think its not plausable to abuse religion and get one group of people to ally themselves with someone they’d generally never go for?

She’s also using plenty of hallucinogenics on the krait. Could be why they are OK with working with her, they might think she’s a krait for all we know. But as far as the krait gods thing goes, I know if I was a krait and I saw the evolved form of the final boss in the Tower, I would totally think that was a god. Sounds like she is delivering for them.

Actually the devs specifically stated that the area will NOT return to the way it was before. Even if the tower is destroyed the ruins will still be there and new events will stay in the area.

While the tower itself is temporary, the changes and events it brought are permanent.

Galen Grey.4709:

Just look at the dark ages, more then one religion was used to justify killing and torture even though said religion strictly prohibited it and you think its not plausable to abuse religion and get one group of people to ally themselves with someone they’d generally never go for?

I’m agreeing to disagree about your assessment on Scarlet, but I highlight this part to say one thing:
Don’t assume that I " think its not plausable to abuse religion and get one group of people to ally themselves with someone they’d generally never go for?"

I know people use and abuse religion to get their means done.
We see it in the bloody news nearly every day.
In fact it was used in GW1 with the White Mantle.
It is one of the most used themes in storytelling.
I’ve used it in some gaming sessions at my table.

So yes I know full well that people will bend a religious order or ideal to their means.

What raises my hackles specifically about the Krait in this release is they are the blackest black hat that GW2 had to offer. Yet now they’ve lost some of that edge in my eyes because of a supposed personal nemesis that really hasn’t earned that title yet to a good portion of the players here.

ANet already admits they kind of dropped the ball with her progression in the Collaborative Development Topic, to which I respect that admission.

You say, “we dont know what seeing the fabric of reality did to her..” well I hope ANet one day does give us a blasted clue. I have faith they will some day. Then maybe I can re-evaluate my stance on her a third time (I started supporting her, now after this Krait business I’ve turned sour) and salvage something from this experience.

So while I disagree with some of your statements, I too want to see if ANet will provide some more on Scarlet’s background or motivations. I want to get back that feeling she was fun.

I wonder what happens when players stop running the tower before the heart gets destroyed. Will it stay forever?

At the moment it’s pretty easy to zerg through it with enough people, but how long will it stay this way?

I can understand the temp content issue, but the zerg complaints confuse me?

What exactly do players expect when you remove hard trinity from game play? This is the result of not having a hard(classic) trinity in a MMO.

Wetpaw.3487:

I can understand the temp content issue, but the zerg complaints confuse me?

What exactly do players expect when you remove hard trinity from game play? This is the result of not having a hard(classic) trinity in a MMO.

Not really. If a trinity were added all you’d have is someone “tank” first then the zerg would hit it. The reality is that it’s difficult to scale things properly from a small number of people to a zerg. Now, if enemies had skills that did increasing damage based on the number of players within a certain radius (to the point that over a certain number you’re nearly assured of a one-shot of everyone in the radius) you’d see the zergs break up in a hurry.

But keep in mind… right now you see a zerg of say 50 people. With a similar world cursed with the trinity you’d see a zerg of one healer, one tank and 48 dps.

Wetpaw.3487:

I can understand the temp content issue, but the zerg complaints confuse me?

What exactly do players expect when you remove hard trinity from game play? This is the result of not having a hard(classic) trinity in a MMO.

How does that relate to zerg content?
Anet could always make another permanent instance (and Molten Facility showed that they can add some really entertaining content there) with arah-level rewards (and lupi-level boss) so that people could add some variety to their daily dungeon runs.
But instead we get this stupid zergfest with soloable chambers.
I mean it’s an MMO, I want party content. If I wanted to do staff solo there’s plenty of that in single layer games.
At least Teq update required cooperation and was fun for a while, made me work with a lot of people from big guilds on my server etc.
Compared to that, Tower is just stupid and uninvolving.

Isslair.4908:

Wetpaw.3487:

I can understand the temp content issue, but the zerg complaints confuse me?

What exactly do players expect when you remove hard trinity from game play? This is the result of not having a hard(classic) trinity in a MMO.

How does that relate to zerg content?
Anet could always make another permanent instance (and Molten Facility showed that they can add some really entertaining content there) with arah-level rewards (and lupi-level boss) so that people could add some variety to their daily dungeon runs.
But instead we get this stupid zergfest with soloable chambers.
I mean it’s an MMO, I want party content. If I wanted to do staff solo there’s plenty of that in single layer games.
At least Teq update required cooperation and was fun for a while, made me work with a lot of people from big guilds on my server etc.
Compared to that, Tower is just stupid and uninvolving.

You do realize that you can take a party into the chambers and they scale up, yes? They give people solo as an option, not as a requirement.

You have to be kidding. Plenty of things in this game don’t scale down enough and while the game is mostly for soloers most of the solo content is utterly boring compared to the content that is available for parties and groups (dungeons, FotM, the harder world bosses, etc.). This is partly why smaller servers are suffering.

We do not need more party content. We do not need more soloable content. We need all content to scale depending on the number of players involved, a feature that GW2 was heavily advertised for but only partially implements. For example, some living story instances were single player (e.g Dragon Bash), while some living world events were dungeons that required parties (Aetherblades Retreat), and its examples like this of the lack of scaling that is irritating to people who want to play their own way. Especially since not all classes are created equal and each one solos or parties better than others.

This living world event was actually finally a step in the right direction. The instances support multiple people (scaling up to dungeon-sized parties), but it can all also be soloed if you have the time and are willing to make the effort.

Galen Grey.4709:

Valenthor.4052:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its a story…. whats the alternative…. Scarlet wins, Krait and Nightmare court turn out to be unbeatable, nightmare tower here to stay cause players cant do anything about it?

Tower is indestructible/potentially too dangerous to be destroyed. Scarlet dies, Toxic Alliance decides to stay together under new leadership. There are really a lot of ways you can go.

wouldnt that mean we cannot win? All Scarlet has to do is stay out of sight let Krait and Nightmare court do their thing. Eventually the spores would spread the whole of Tyria goes mad . I personally would rather we blow it up to pieces then have it available through the mists as a sort of historical event.

It doesn’t mean they win either. They could be pushed to a stalemate and stay as a lingering enemy.

Look at the Risen. We killed Zhaitan, we cleansed Orr. They;re still around.

Look at the Flame Legion. We killed Baelfire, we killed him again when they tried to raise him form the dead. We killed their new tribune as well. And the Citadel of Flames is still there.

We don’t need to blow everything up.

Seras.5702:

I’m with Valenthor. Plenty of creative ways to keep the tower. Partially destroyed, lingering toxins, too risky to destroy completely, become a haunted krait burial tower…..Plenty of ways to progress the story & still make it permanent.

We don’t know that the tower structure is going away. It only says that the content will be available until the heart is destroyed. This sort of makes me think of the ability to get into the interior, which is itself a world map. Additionally, the devs have said that the Kessex map will not revert to how it was.

We could see some of those things still after the heart is destroyed. Lingering toxin in the water, lingering alliance remnants, the remains of the tower structure (though no longer accessible because we destroyed it), etc.

I thought we had a consensus that bringing in new content like dungeons, then removing them, was a mistake. Lots of people lived the molten alliance dungeon and were sad to see it go. Taking away what could have been a new permanent dungeon just because the story says it should be so is bad design. The gameplay should come first and the story should mold around it.

My guess is that the Tower will be destroyed once we’ve injected enough Antitoxin. We won’t be able to enter the Tower anymore, but we’ll still see the ruins of it in Kessex Hills. The Toxic Alliance mobs will still have a small presence in Kessex (as evidenced by the new events around Viathan Lake), and we’ll occasionally still see Toxic Seedlings scattered throughout the world, but on the whole Kessex will start to return to its former beauty (forests regrow etc.)

mtpelion.4562:

I haven’t been back to Divinity’s Reach in a while, but last time I was there the Queens’ Pavilion was still standing and had not reverted into a giant hole in the ground.

If I was working on the game and I had made such a drastic change to a map, I’d be certain that once the temporary content was over that there would be a lasting remnant (such as a ruined tower and some lingering corruption, possibly a modification to a Renown Heart or two).

There’s nothing to do in the pavilion now and you can’t get into the “special” area so even if it reverted to a hole, which wouldn’t make any sense, it wouldn’t change how often it’s used.

Before everyone gets upset, lets remember that the tower is essentially zerg content. That isn’t good permanent content since zergs gets boring faster than some other content. As soon as players drift off and spend time elsewhere there won’t be enough people inside to keep it going and it’ll be a deathtrap for the solo players walking through.

Removing the tower also lets the living story put out more temporary zerg content later (hurray!). There will never be enough interested players to keep the Mad King’s Labyrinth, the Nightmare Tower, the Queen’s Pavillion, a Scarlet invasion, orrian temples, Jormag etc, and any new living story content all going at the same.

Atlas.9704:

What raises my hackles specifically about the Krait in this release is they are the blackest black hat that GW2 had to offer. Yet now they’ve lost some of that edge in my eyes because of a supposed personal nemesis that really hasn’t earned that title yet to a good portion of the players here.

I think this part here is something thats important to address. When you’re simulating the passage of time it is important to evolve characters there in. Shaping them to follow the dynamics of the story.

You mentioned the white mantle so I will use them as an example. Putting it in spoiler tags for whoever didnt play gw1 and wants to experience it still.

The small detail is important, even something as seemingly trivial as a simple skill can change something that’s the poster child for good into the poster child of evil in a realistic manner.

Wetpaw.3487:

I can understand the temp content issue, but the zerg complaints confuse me?

What exactly do players expect when you remove hard trinity from game play? This is the result of not having a hard(classic) trinity in a MMO.

I personally dont think that zerging is an issue of removing the trinity. Zerging happens because gw2 gives credit to everyone and doesnt have mob tagging like other MMOs. If Champions, world bosses or even dynamic events would give xp, karma and gold only to the player or team that attacked it first you’d have no zerging because well it would be useless to spend 2 minutes killing champion you’re getting nothing out off.

Trinity doesnt get into it, if you had trinity and still had no mob tagging all DPS would still attack the champion / world boss, tanks will still go tanking and dps a little for the credit and so would healers.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Galen Grey.4709:

Valenthor.4052:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its a story…. whats the alternative…. Scarlet wins, Krait and Nightmare court turn out to be unbeatable, nightmare tower here to stay cause players cant do anything about it?

Tower is indestructible/potentially too dangerous to be destroyed. Scarlet dies, Toxic Alliance decides to stay together under new leadership. There are really a lot of ways you can go.

wouldnt that mean we cannot win? All Scarlet has to do is stay out of sight let Krait and Nightmare court do their thing. Eventually the spores would spread the whole of Tyria goes mad . I personally would rather we blow it up to pieces then have it available through the mists as a sort of historical event.

It doesn’t mean they win either. They could be pushed to a stalemate and stay as a lingering enemy.

Look at the Risen. We killed Zhaitan, we cleansed Orr. They;re still around.

Look at the Flame Legion. We killed Baelfire, we killed him again when they tried to raise him form the dead. We killed their new tribune as well. And the Citadel of Flames is still there.

We don’t need to blow everything up.

And dont you feel thats an issue? Cause story wise it doesnt make sense that Orr still has risen at all.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Actually the devs specifically stated that the area will NOT return to the way it was before. Even if the tower is destroyed the ruins will still be there and new events will stay in the area.

While the tower itself is temporary, the changes and events it brought are permanent.

If that is the case then the humans and centaurs in the area need to become aware of its existence.

Galen Grey.4709:

Its a story…. whats the alternative…. Scarlet wins, Krait and Nightmare court turn out to be unbeatable, nightmare tower here to stay cause players cant do anything about it?

The alternative? Oh, I don’t know. How bout continuing with the kitten premise of the game and pursuing the elder dragon war? You know, the entire kitten premise of the game? The reason we are here?
You know, picky little alternatives like that. Just the CORE of the whole kittening game!? \o/

Imaginos.3756:

mtpelion.4562:

I haven’t been back to Divinity’s Reach in a while, but last time I was there the Queens’ Pavilion was still standing and had not reverted into a giant hole in the ground.

If I was working on the game and I had made such a drastic change to a map, I’d be certain that once the temporary content was over that there would be a lasting remnant (such as a ruined tower and some lingering corruption, possibly a modification to a Renown Heart or two).

There’s nothing to do in the pavilion now and you can’t get into the “special” area so even if it reverted to a hole, which wouldn’t make any sense, it wouldn’t change how often it’s used.

The fact that it is void of action doesn’t change the fact that it was changed permanently. Let’s not forget that they have stated their intention of bringing back the pavilion on a regular basis.

Sleel.8365:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its a story…. whats the alternative…. Scarlet wins, Krait and Nightmare court turn out to be unbeatable, nightmare tower here to stay cause players cant do anything about it?

The alternative? Oh, I don’t know. How bout continuing with the kitten premise of the game and pursuing the elder dragon war? You know, the entire kitten premise of the game? The reason we are here?
You know, picky little alternatives like that. Just the CORE of the whole kittening game!? \o/

Sure nothing against any of that but I dont see how the whole tower staying there or not makes any difference for what you’re saying!

Galen Grey.4709:

Sleel.8365:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its a story…. whats the alternative…. Scarlet wins, Krait and Nightmare court turn out to be unbeatable, nightmare tower here to stay cause players cant do anything about it?

The alternative? Oh, I don’t know. How bout continuing with the kitten premise of the game and pursuing the elder dragon war? You know, the entire kitten premise of the game? The reason we are here?
You know, picky little alternatives like that. Just the CORE of the whole kittening game!? \o/

Sure nothing against any of that but I dont see how the whole tower staying there or not makes any difference for what you’re saying!

Doesn’t. You’re comment was more of a vehicle to aim a comment at ANet. Not that I expect them to hear it, hear or anywhere else. I’ve long since abandoned any hope of seeing a continuation of the dragon war. I was hopeful that Flame and Frost was gonna intro Jormag or Primordious, so the whole direction of LS has been nothing but a disappointment for me. Story wise. Enjoyed MF Dungeon, and the Jubilee stuff, the arena, not the ‘story’. And Rox and Brahm are fun enough. (Ohhhh, we’re so dead!) Their banter wherever I see em is entertaining. But overall……. I came here for the Dragon War, and it’s an arc that’s pretty much been abandoned, as far as I can see.

Galen Grey.4709:

You mentioned the white mantle so I will use them as an example. Putting it in spoiler tags for whoever didnt play gw1 and wants to experience it still.

I’ll have to put in some spoilers for this reply, and I’m really sorry for it.

Flat out, at least based on what I’ve played in the Bonus Missions, they were destined to be evil no matter what. Without the Unseen Ones there is no White Mantle.

But that’s enough thread drift from me.

Sleel.8365:

Galen Grey.4709:

Sleel.8365:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its a story…. whats the alternative…. Scarlet wins, Krait and Nightmare court turn out to be unbeatable, nightmare tower here to stay cause players cant do anything about it?

The alternative? Oh, I don’t know. How bout continuing with the kitten premise of the game and pursuing the elder dragon war? You know, the entire kitten premise of the game? The reason we are here?
You know, picky little alternatives like that. Just the CORE of the whole kittening game!? \o/

Sure nothing against any of that but I dont see how the whole tower staying there or not makes any difference for what you’re saying!

Doesn’t. You’re comment was more of a vehicle to aim a comment at ANet. Not that I expect them to hear it, hear or anywhere else. I’ve long since abandoned any hope of seeing a continuation of the dragon war. I was hopeful that Flame and Frost was gonna intro Jormag or Primordious, so the whole direction of LS has been nothing but a disappointment for me. Story wise. Enjoyed MF Dungeon, and the Jubilee stuff, the arena, not the ‘story’. And Rox and Brahm are fun enough. (Ohhhh, we’re so dead!) Their banter wherever I see em is entertaining. But overall……. I came here for the Dragon War, and it’s an arc that’s pretty much been abandoned, as far as I can see.

Or they might have simply wanted to do something different just so the whole game doesnt turn into fight dragon A, then B then C then D… 4 years of fighting dragons would be a bit monotone so to speak. Not just that but fighting a new dragon requires new zones and those take time to build so personally I hope they using the scarlet story line to buy time to their long term team to build the new zones and at the same time not make the game exclusively about dragons and that once this is done they can start a new LS dealing with their chosen dragon.

Atlas.9704:

Galen Grey.4709:

You mentioned the white mantle so I will use them as an example. Putting it in spoiler tags for whoever didnt play gw1 and wants to experience it still.

I’ll have to put in some spoilers for this reply, and I’m really sorry for it.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

I get your meaning that we don’t have a proper scale of time with Scarlet on some things, but that stems from ANet moving to the new alliance on the block instead of reinforcing the story they already started. I’ve already gone through that too many times on this forum so I’ll stop here.

As for your White Mantle part, we honestly don’t know what Saul was to become. He was taken away “to ensure his silence”. Though from the Bonus Mission (I liked Gwen’s more, but whatever ) considering how he wept for all those dead I’d assume he would have rebelled against the organization in time. All but the most loyal to the Mursaat were killed. In fact they flat out said “Only the truly worthy may see the Unseen and live to tell the tale” so you know bad ju-ju was going to happen.
His followers, the survivors, served the Unseen Ones now at this point either because of fear (getting the Saul treatment) or from actual devotion because they saw the power of the Unseen Ones. Saul wasn’t a factor anymore. He was just the figurehead icon they needed because he was “matyred”.

Flat out, at least based on what I’ve played in the Bonus Missions, they were destined to be evil no matter what. Without the Unseen Ones there is no White Mantle.

But that’s enough thread drift from me.

I think you missunderstood what I meant.

Disclaimer: Beware of spoilers to the original gw bonus mission pack below.

BlackWolf.8605:

i hate the argument about no core updates… play the game in 2 weeks you wont wanna see the tower so whats it matter when its gone

I think the issue is more about events like these leaving 100% no trace they were ever there when they are done. If they instead left a crumbled tower and maybe some toxic alliance forces here and there with maybe a toxic offshoot around the world once in a while, then it would be far more acceptable. Maybe even have some minor dynamic events for cleaning up the mess over time.

Its just dramatic changes such as these should always leave traces. It shows a history of the game and how it has evolved.

I see people bring up topics like this every time an update occurs. At the root of the matter, I believe it’s a conversation about players and the mindset that the most profitable thing is the only thing worth touching. In a month or so, this update, like most updates will be out of everyone’s mind. If it were to be left in the game the amount of people visiting it would be trivial at best in most cases, essentially degrading it’s worth to “giant phallus spewing poison everywhere, taking up space that no one cares about”.
In my own opinion I believe keeping it leaves room for old school D&D style game play which to me is what this games core concept was all about. “There’s a huge tower full of Nightmare krait no one seems to be doing anything about. You should probably get a group of people together and go kill everything inside.” That would be cool.
Combating that view however is the story. Everyone wants this thing gone. Everyone wants to crush this new alliance in the same fashion Norwegian teenagers crush lemmings with ridiculously large boots. There’s even evidence that new enemy alliance’s never last long with us around. So it’s safe to say this content will go the way of le dodo shortly.

Lazarus.3970:

BlackWolf.8605:

i hate the argument about no core updates… play the game in 2 weeks you wont wanna see the tower so whats it matter when its gone

I think the issue is more about events like these leaving 100% no trace they were ever there when they are done. If they instead left a crumbled tower and maybe some toxic alliance forces here and there with maybe a toxic offshoot around the world once in a while, then it would be far more acceptable. Maybe even have some minor dynamic events for cleaning up the mess over time.

Its just dramatic changes such as these should always leave traces. It shows a history of the game and how it has evolved.

Every living story update left traces like the ones you mention…

Flame and Frost left the gyzers, the burned out ground where the refugee camps where and all of Cragstead. Secrets of southsun left the infrastructure the refugee built while working for the consortium. Sky pirates left the no so secret jumping puzzle. The Queen Jubilee left the pavilion. Clockwork chaos left the invasions. tequalt rising and twilight assault left all their content in.

See the progress bar tracking the injections made into the tower? (it appears in the living story tracker on your UI)

On my server it is going up all very slowly (maybe 20% after eight days). I suspect that when the bar is full the tower will collapse on itself from its core having been corroded by the antitoxin. I suspect this is when the tower will go away.

Probably Kessex will then look like something halfway between what it was before and what it is now – with a collapsed giant thistle in the middle.

Zel