Guild Wars 2

you want to talk out of place? Since when do the brainy asura value something like hitting a person with a blunt object until they’re dead like a caveman? Why would a Silvari, a creature made from wood specialize in fire-based magic, or even poison based attacks like a Necromancer? Magic’s looked down on in the Charr society, why would any of them focus on being a mesmer, elementalist, or necromancer?

Just a pet peeve of mine, but big does not equal slow, stupid, unskilled, or loud. Should you wish to disagree, I have some counter-examples for you:

Achilles (the original in the Iliad, not Brad Pitt): when he lost his armor to Hector, he argued that he could not fight because there was no fitting armor to be found, except, perhaps, Ajax’s. AJAX’S. Nobody would argue he was small. I know this is fictitious, but the implication is that the Greeks associated size with skill instead of opposed to it.

Military men: some buff kitten Navy Seals would disagree and could kick your kitten either quickly or quietly, regardless of their size.

And of course, there is the realm of sports. Here are some vids of huge dudes with speed and skill taking thoughful, decisive action:

This guy would like a word with you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRix6bbR-cY

And there is this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDg47aRXDB0&

This guy was no lumbering moron either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H56dQ5Lm298

Also, though it is CGI, watch this, because never before has a big dude been given so much respect in a video game trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwUAv-SSZqw

I literally made a Norn Thief with the height all the way up, and the beefiest body type just to level him in Metrica province. So many lulz.

“Ahm so sneeky, u little asura guyz!”

Aramanth.1546:

you want to talk out of place? Since when do the brainy asura value something like hitting a person with a blunt object until they’re dead like a caveman? Why would a Silvari, a creature made from wood specialize in fire-based magic, or even poison based attacks like a Necromancer? Magic’s looked down on in the Charr society, why would any of them focus on being a mesmer, elementalist, or necromancer?

Well flesh is flammable too, doesn’t stop humans from being elementalists.

I like to imagine they can hear the screaming of the carrots whenever they harvest them though.

I play a Norn thief, but she’s more of a stealthy hunter, rather than a bandit.
Even if classes have names it doens’t necessarily mean they have to be specifically the interpretation of a stereotype.

biggerthanthesun.2397:

Just a pet peeve of mine, but big does not equal slow, stupid, unskilled, or loud.

This. In fact, generally speaking, larger predators are more sneaky than their smaller counterparts, this because a long chase burns too many calories for a large heavy predator.

Take for example the siberian tiger compared to the wolf, both live in cold climates and so do not risk heat exhaustion on long chases, but while wolves often chase prey for many kilometers, tigers are not known to give chase if the stalk is unsuccessful.

Besides, sneakiness is not so much about not being discovered when looked at, it’s about being where they’re not looking. This is why polar bears are one of the sneakiest predators there is, as by the time a seal is in position to check if there’s one lurking up there, the bear’s already got him by the face.

And if you consider humans (or something humanlike, such as a norn), never has there been a negative correlation between size and intelligence or skill, and if anything, longer, stronger legs are only gonna make you faster (and give you more options as to where to plant your feet without making any noise), and longer, stronger arms can only give you a larger window of time in which to stop or deflect an attack.

Cuddlesworth.3187:

This. In fact, generally speaking, larger predators are more sneaky than their smaller counterparts, this because a long chase burns too many calories for a large heavy predator.

True. Large predators usually have adaptations or hunting styles that enable them to bring down prey with a minimum of effort. Lions hunt in packs so that no one predator has to expend too much energy. Tigers are ambush predators that attack from hiding and kill prey with a single bite to the neck. Sharks prefer to attack suddenly, take one huge bite out of their prey, then retreat and wait till it dies of blood loss before moving in to feed.

Although with polar bears, they generally feed on seals that are hiding in their burrows within the ice sheet. They listen carefully to hear the seals (usually young pups) moving around in their burrows, then use their strength to break down through the ice to grab them. (This is also why global warming is affecting the polar bears so badly. The melting ice means that they can no longer use this tactic of hunting.)

Zaxares.5419:

Although with polar bears, they generally feed on seals that are hiding in their burrows within the ice sheet. They listen carefully to hear the seals (usually young pups) moving around in their burrows, then use their strength to break down through the ice to grab them. (This is also why global warming is affecting the polar bears so badly. The melting ice means that they can no longer use this tactic of hunting.)

Yes, but another common polar bear hunting strategy is called still-hunting, which is when the bear lies in wait near a seal breathing hole, then when it smells a seal exhaling it reaches down and pulls the seal up with its forepaw. That’s what i was refering to.

This hunting method too is getting harder to use with the melting ice since more open water means seals don’t have to rely as much on breathing holes.

Also, concerning

Video James.9218:

#1. It defies their very concept of honor.

So why would that even happen? It’s so confusing! The incredible Anglo-Saxon style of culture that the Norns hold makes thievery near impossible.

I know of no culture that does not consider thievery dishonourable, and also of no culture that does not have thieves. This includes the anglo-saxons and other germanic cultures.

And

Aramanth.1546:

you want to talk out of place? Since when do the brainy asura value something like hitting a person with a blunt object until they’re dead like a caveman? Why would a Silvari, a creature made from wood specialize in fire-based magic, or even poison based attacks like a Necromancer? Magic’s looked down on in the Charr society, why would any of them focus on being a mesmer, elementalist, or necromancer?

Firstly i’d have to say that intelligence and head bashing are not at all polar opposites. Intelligence simply makes us better able to find the most efficient solution to a problem, the nature of the problem is what determines whether bashing in a skull or firing up the flamethrower is the most efficient solution.

Secondly as to your objection to sylvari using poison, i think you need to take a long hard look at all the poisonous plants out there then decide if it’s really that big a stretch.

And about magic in charr society, there are many things in human society that are looked down on, that doesn’t mean that people don’t do them. Why should charr be so conformist?

Man guys, thanks again for all of this input. Seeing things in a new light.

And for those of you who are butthurt, calm down. I just wanted to see what the community thought.

Norns were also in history, an ancient tribe of swedes. If you know anything about ancient vikings, they were the terrors of the seas and robbed europe of its treasures as far back as Roman historians can remember. Norn Thief? Absolutely believable. Also, Norn in game are far more into glory then honor, and this is demonstrated routinely by the Svanir (who are allowed to coexist with the rest of the norn). They are all about “what kinda story will this make!” so doing acrobatic aerial maneuvers to amaze onlookers seems even more legit to me. Don’t let the beefcake fool you into lumping all Norn into the HULK SMASH because that just paints the norns into being slowbrained brutes, which is far from the truth.

Sarisa.4731:

Thieves/assassins aren’t always about sneaking. A major part of infiltration is sometimes just blending in to get close to a target. A cover as a waiter, cleaner, or butler will often able to gain access to secure targets more easily than someone trying to sneak in.

And I agree with Riot Inducer. Snow Leopard emphasises stealth, and what some would consider “unethical”, but is natural for a sneaky hunter. The story in A Spirit of Legend is a good example.

I remember the 1st I read this…

Norn Thief all the way in for me man…

While the actual coastal raiding and piracy practices of real world Nordic peoples have been somewhat distorted by legend and fiction, those legends are a major source of inspiration for the Norns. If I were to make a Pirate character, Thief would be my first choice. As has been noted, Raven and Snow Leopard both heavily endorse “clever” tactics, and Wolf’s preference for brutal pragmatism is quite compatible with stabbing a guy in the back – especially if your “packmate” is distracting him from the front. Only Bear favors the kind of stand-up-and-fight mentality being suggested, and beyond that she seems indifferent to Norn who fight a little dirty.

The other most prominent inspiration for the Norn is the “fantasy huntsman”, who’s a little bit Tolkien Ranger, a little bit Native American hunter thanking the spirits of his prey, and a lot Teddy Roosevelt taking diplomats on safari to shoot the living crap out of some lions and rhinoceroses. Obviously, Ranger is the easiest conceptual fit for this ideal, but Thieves draw from the same skill set. They just apply it more to taking down other people than critters.

The fundamental Norn Cultural Axiom is “Be so awesome that people talk about it long after you’re dead.” There are no real qualifiers attached to that limiting how you go about being awesome. So long as you don’t flat out oppose the Spirits of the Wild, like the Sons of Svanir, you’re pretty much good building your legend however you like. If you can brag about it later, you’re good. If you’re using your Thief-ish powers to do stuff you’re ashamed to tell the other Norn about, like carrying out inter-tribal assassinations that weaken the collective Norn ability to carry out war against Jormag & Co., then yeah, that’s messed up. Fortunately, the default storyline doesn’t give your Norn Thief opportunities to get up to those kinds of shenanigans.

As a final thought, here’s a link to a story from my family history (relevant story starts 8 paragraphs down, indented by a picture of a castle to the left):
http://www.mcnabb.us/history/mcnabblegend.htm

To summarize, a bunch of Scotsmen stole some stuff from a bunch of other Scotsmen and thought they were safe from retaliation because they lived on an island and owned the only boat on the lake. Their rival clan responded by having four big giant bruisers carry a boat several miles over land, row silently to the fort in the middle of the night, kick in the door, and slaughter everyone. To this day, the McNabb Clan crest bears the image of the Neish Clan Chief’s severed head, which was brought back as a trophy.

That’s how a Norn Thief gets things done.

Have you tried playing a light armor profession? Now that’s what I call unfitting.
Especially the low level armor sets look very silly on Norns, in my opinion.

People forget norn are pretty quick for their size

I made a Norn thief and my made him the shortest you can be and the skinniest body type, which was still big, but on well

My main is a tall deep voiced Norn thief woman. Be afraid I’ll make you my rubber ducky lol

Lets also not forget one of the most famous thieves was Conan the Barbarian. If anyone could qualify a Norn Thief, it would be him.

“a norn who achieves respect from their peers through deeds that might be considered “underhanded” by human standards has still accomplished what the norn value most, and is seen as equal to a norn who has performed more “respectable” acts. "

from GW wiki

If you simply rename the “steal” skill to “Mimic” then it would fit the lore completely.

Amarithel – 17 Norn Thief

I saw a pair of comics about this very subject, the other day.

Norn Thief? NO

Norn Thief? YES

haha, nicely done. I would just imagine that thieves among the Norn just have different approaches. After all, it’s not really stealing to a Norn if the bad guy lets you walk away with his prized and mostly unguarded possessions.

Someone stole my horn and made it a ice dragon weapon! Totally epic story.

That was totally worth necroing a three months old thread, Supernatural Dawn.

A Norn thief doesn’t look nearly so big when you are relieving Jotans of their ill-gotten potatoes.

Humans and their silly obsesssion with being the center of the universe .

(actually I find fighting centaurs a completely different experience on my Human and Norn characters. To the Human they look rather intimidating. My Norns keep wondering whey they don’t have a button to just pick up and carry the pony off draped over one shoulder…)

I respectfully disagree with OP. There is a saying that “There is honour among thieves”.

In fact I would have more trouble with Norn necromancy or Norn engineers (they seem to be a bit too advanced for their simple lifestyles). But I am open minded and not every character has to be the stereotype either.

Just re-reading The First Law Trilogy, and had the overwhelming urge to make a Norn Thief called Dogman.
The name ofc had gone, which was a shame.

SanityAssassin.8795:

I respectfully disagree with OP. There is a saying that “There is honour among thieves”.

In fact I would have more trouble with Norn necromancy or Norn engineers (they seem to be a bit too advanced for their simple lifestyles). But I am open minded and not every character has to be the stereotype either.

This part made me laugh. My Norn’s an Engineer. She’s been around those Charr too frigging long. Although, a Techie Norn that works for Raven makes a certain sense …

Have you looked at lions, or tigers, or jaguars, or Bears? They’re incredibly effective ambush hunters despite their size.

Fox.1054:

So imagine this:

You are just sitting peacefully in the living room with your wife enjoying a cup of tea. Then this huge towering norn bashes your door, comes into your house, picks up your television and starts walking away with a grin, whispering ‘and I’m not even using my bear form’. Would you even dare to stop this humongous beast? This is why the norn are the best thieves.

I lol’d at this. Good one.

EricGORE.7896:

A Norn can be a great thief, he simply doesn’t have to be sneaky, he takes what he wants from you by using only his (or her sometimes) beard. Then… He does other unthinkable things to you, again, with his beard.

The beard was honestly the reason I rolled Norn first. If they’d fix the feet to match the smaller, less bulky body types, I’d play my Norn more. As it stands he sort of looks like a goofy huge-footy klutz.

You want to know how Norn thieves work?

Like this.

Blades.9417:

1. Honor, not sure, norn value great accomplishments and individuality, so a thief can pretty much accomplish great stuff on his own.

1. yeah… but stealth covers it all i guess. (well, a good example of big “thiefs” is shiro tagachi, ok he was an assassin, but you get the point, stealthy and sneaky is ok, but shiro was a big guy, and look at what he did)

Btw, theres an old post on the arena blog named “a spirit of legend”, im pretty sure the guy in there is a thief, pretty entertaining.

Someone’s never seen a big cat hunt prey.

Personally I’ve never accepted class name and am calling it “assassin”.
With Leopard or Raven as totem animal I see no problems with my main char

Video James.9218:

I love the absolute flexibility GW2 gives the player. It’s one of the many things that make me consider this game the greatest MMO ever. But…
Norn Thieves?

How does that even work?

I just got into the game. My main is currently only level 10, but I’m absorbing a lot of information. So even I know this is waaayy too out of place.

#1. It defies their very concept of honor.

So why would that even happen? It’s so confusing! The incredible Anglo-Saxon style of culture that the Norns hold makes thievery near impossible. Not only that..

#2. They’re freakin’ huge.

How would a Norn sneak up on someone to either assassinate them or steal their stuff?

Discuss!

Have you watched Riddik? He is huge too and he is kinda assassin.

Thief =/= Ninja, despite most people going for that look and how some of the moves available look. But also, Ninja also =/= a super agile, smaller, clad-all-in-black lurker in the shadows. A ninja will work in the cornfield in plain sight for several days waiting for the perfect opportunity for a kill. A samurai warlord will hear his assassination is inevitable and will triple the security and be waiting for a warrior in black coming from the shadows, when in actuality the assassin is the pig farmer who’s already been in the compound for a week. But I digress. Sure, Norn don’t exactly have the build for covert ops, but there is more to being a good thief than being small or adequate size. And despite it being a fictional character and a video game, I bet Efut from the vigil could throw a whoopin on some people twice or even thrice her size xD.

My Norn reminds me of a bad biker dude in trenchcoat with long switchblades ready for use.
Sometimes i think he misses only the BLS logo on his back and a guitar.

Anyway, Norn thieves to me are predators; they aint the big grizzly bear huntin style, but the leopard one; i see them huntin their prey in the black of a forest at night, or followin snowprints so fast they’ll soon be one the back of someone, or ambushin with feline grace form a big rock.
Surely no ninjas guys/gals, simply predators.

Talking about how Norn can’t be thieves when there’s an evil Norn mesmer that protects a skill point in Snowden drifts
She focused more on the dark side of Raven and kidnapped and killed children to increase her own power

There is even a thief somewhere in Hoelbrak. A young person who steals things. She says something like she will take advantage of some naiv Asura. Maybe I can find a screen about that.

As average thieves go, no I couldn’t see a Norn as one, but as a mugger, definately. You would be handing over your gold before he even spoke a word.

… Yautja (The Predator). ’Nuff said.

“Shhh … up there … past the treeeeeeees.” O_O