Guild Wars 2

Okay, I’ve read all these types of threads before. A lot of them. So before I begin, let me state a few things:

- I understand Norn and Charr are large and it works well with their “Lore”. Please do not bring that up as a valid defense for their sizes.

- I understand these races are supposed to be bulky due to what and who they are. However, once again. This will not be a valid defense or excuse for their sizes in this thread.
—-

So as I said, I know the Norn are big and it goes along with their lore and persona. I get that. I honestly do. That’s not the issue. The issue is that from a gameplay perspective it seems like a less than desirable move. Why make them that big?

I know you can make both races smaller but all (or most) of the races NPC’s will always be max height. So that won’t fix it. It’s just odd.

This game is an RPG. An MMO, yes. But still an RPG. One of the main goals of a game like this is too become better and better. To become stronger and advance. But as an Asura or any other of the races that aren’t at their max height sliders, whats the point? Why would I bother working so hard for this awesome looking armor and weapons when most of the other players cant even see me? It feels awkward fighting something when you’re up to its waist.

Max Norn height is around 8"7 if I can remember correctly. And I think max human height is 6"3-6"7. I know Norns are supposed to be huge. But thats way too big of a gap. As a norn, humans look stupid. They just look ridiculous. They look like tiny little sprites. And as a human or even an asura the norn just look stupid, they look like huge compared to me and if I happen to be playing a Human warrior at the time then I just feel silly. Im supposed to be “The big bad powerful warrior” but its hard to feel that way when im up to this norns chest or lower.

I agree that the Norn and Charr should be larger than other races, but the gap between the max heights needs to be shortened by a good amount.

Sorry for the long post by the way.

Any thoughts? (Once again, please do not bring up the “lore”. This is from a gameplay perspective)

Sounds like the problem is with the tiny races. Not Norn and charr in all our granduer.

I have to agree with Dustfinger. It seems your problem is that smaller races are smaller, not that large races are large.

Also, without bringing up lore, how, exactly, are we supposed to defend our magnificence? We were created large because that’s how ANet wanted us, based on the lore. There’s nothing more to it.

That aside, my Asura that I placed at the bottom end of the height slider is rocking his T3 Cultural armour. Just because other people may not stare in awe as he walks around doesn’t reduce the satisfaction of finally getting him fully equipped. I can always see him properly.

If you’re only getting armor and weapon skins so that others look at you, you’re not doing it right, in my opinion.

Also it sounds like a personal problem if you somehow feel weaker as a human warrior standing next to norn or charr. You should be stronger in your conviction and self-image. Even a fierce asura warrior could make those races back away. Your strength is in how you lay to waste your enemies and protect your allies, not your stature.

Yep. from a gameplay perspective I have no problem fighting a Jotun as a Norn or Charr. Or an Ogre or any other NPC that is bigger than my character. I don’t automatically feel silly just because my race is smaller than theirs. If you feel inferior by choosing some of the smaller races, there are other options. pick a different race or dodge more in combat to simulate your character not wanting to get hit by such a big npc.

even if they were all the same height, you’d have to take teeth and claws away from charr, muscles away from norn. Intelligence away from asura. I think this would be a very boring game that I couldn’t get into because it would be a world full of “star trek aliens” (Humans with odd heads and different color skin). Except, you might still feel silly fighting a Klingon because they are so war like and your chosen species might not be.

Variation? I like how different the races are. Makes it more worth it to play all of them. Most people hated when The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion made the beast races more human like. Sure they could now wear helms and shoes, but it made them less interesting.
I wish more games were bold enough to make more varied races.

This. ^

You might as well complain that Norn aren’t as smart as asura. Why try to make all the races equal, that’s boring. Charr aren’t as strong as Norn but they can still holf their own because they are so warlike. Asura aren’t as strong as humans but an asura warrior can still give their enemies a real bad day. Conan the barbarian is the quinticential human warrior who uses his strength a lot in combat. But he isn’t always the strongest one in his fights. In times when he fights stronger opponents, he also uses sneaks past emenies he knows he can’t beat and he uses skill to outfight stronger opponents.

This complaint echos of something all RPers have done at one time or another. We get an idea of a warrior and we want him to be the “strongest warrior ever!”. Then the GM says “Nope, this guy you are fighting is stronger. You need to figure out a different way to beat him.” You can either rage that your guy isn’t the Mary Sue you envisioned or you can accept that you character isn’t the “chosen one” of the entire world. Humans are weaker than charr and Norn. That’s not a problem unless you can’t accept it. But Humans can still beat charr and Norn with tactics that don’t engage charr and norn on their own terms.

I actually agree with the OP – I think the Charr or alright but the Norn are simply too big. They should be roughly 25-50% larger than humans at most, not more than double their size, and there should be some overlap – the smallest norn should be smaller than the biggest humans.

Norn have already been scaled down for gameplay purposes. They were bigger in GW1. Making them smaller wouldn’t make them the giants they are supposed to be in lore.

Einlanzer.1627:

I actually agree with the OP – I think the Charr or alright but the Norn are simply too big. They should be roughly 25-50% larger than humans at most, not more than double their size, and there should be some overlap – the smallest norn should be smaller than the biggest humans.

No way, I love having my max height Norn Warrior tower over everyone else. Especially with a Vigil Helmet and his gear it gives him an air of leadership. Plus in wvw I use my character’s height to act as a body shield for my allies if they’re trying to get targeted (easier to misclick on my character than the little Sylvari Thief or Asura Elementalist running under my feet).

You (OP) have a lot of opinions, all of which I seem to disagree with.

I love that the norn and charr are so much bigger than humans. My norn warrior looks like an impressive, towering giant of destruction. And when my short human female with her plain but practical armor and plain but practical greatsword stands next to a norn, the fact that she CAN stand next to a norn and hold her own just as well drives home the fact that she is one little lady you DO NOT torque off.

So… yeah. I like them how they are, and I see no problems with it. (Aside from the camera problems, which have nothing to do with the topic here, really.)

If it makes the OP feel any better, I won’t be looking at your armor no matter how tall you are. I will be looking at mine because that is what I’m interested in.

I admit I really don’t get the notion that other players will generally give a toss about what one’s character looks like, because in my experience they don’t. And neither do I, unless a rare or creative combination of colors, dyes, armor pieces and body features makes a character stand out from the crowd. So what if someone wears whatever the “best” items are at a given moment? There are thousands of clones with exactly the same outfit, it’s nothing special at all (IMO, obviously). Maybe I’m just weird this way? In fact, if I get the impression that someone is being all lookatmelookatmelookatme, I automatically filter them out altogether.

The only characters I actively noticed during seven years in WoW where the ones with unique and thematic RP outfits. And in this game, the only characters I actively notice are sylvari and charr with neat fur/bark patterns and colors, sylvari in cultural armor (because almost everything else looks like crap on them), and occasionally a well-done dye job on the other species.

They already shorted norn from the betas and it made me really angry. In GW1 they were even bigger than they had been in the betas! If the ended up shortening them again, I’d honestly probably quit, or at least stop playing as often I do.

You can’t look at the game from a purely gameplay perspective, because that’s not the entire perspective. Racial height adds novelty and variation to the game. They are supposed to be big; you simply cannot say that is not a valid argument.

I don’t understand why you’re so upset because you’re -assuming- that players playing norn or charr judge you for being smaller. ??

I love being taller than the other races. We are giants after all.
Also, situations when I’m with other races remind me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdN2TO8ktEg

I kind of agree with the OP. Nothing wrong with norns being big but as a playable race they feel weirdly big compared to other races. And I have no problem with the humans being smaller then other races, but compared to the charr and especially norn they look ridiculous. They look like shrimps! It’s hard to grasp that the norns would have any problems taking down other races with that size.

Well, I DID chose a male norn over anything else for my warrior, just to make it as big and bulky as it can get(Kratos fk yea!!).
If you rolled a lolsura or human and find yourself to small/norns too big, it’s your own fault for taking an (obviously) lesser race.
Norn masterrace!

Mejo.3198:

It’s hard to grasp that the norns would have any problems taking down other races with that size.

They really wouldn’t, one on one. That’s part of their lore. That as individual as the Norn are, they gave the the bigger, more organized and more militant force of the charr a run for their money, thereby gaining respect for the other side in each species eyes. Now that doesn’t mean that a hero such as playable characters can’t kill bigger beings but the layman human won’t go around slaying norn left and right. In fact the layman Norn is more likely to slay bigger ettin and jotun than a layman human is to slay a norn. The majot flaw the norn have when thinking about “who would win in a fight” is that the norn are far less organized, possesing no centralized government or standing army.