Guild Wars 2

Too much fapping in this thread.

It’s a game.

Isn’t the whole point of this, is to have as many options as possible? We should simply be asking for more options. Body sliders for muscle volume and body fat would be great. Additional options for scars and tattoo’s are fine. (Even though I personally do not wish to promote tattoo’s Additional zones for dyeing armor and hopefully weapons. I’d say yes to it all because each of us should be happy with our character creations.

I read yesterday they’re working on character customization for after the roll. So, we’ll be able to modify our current builds as more options come on line.

or you could wear a mask… i personally don’t think Norns are too pretty, cause you actually have lots of ways to make em “ugly” plus you have tatoos

I like way norn women looks, very mature looking which is a REAL WOMEN SUPPOSE TO LOOK LIKE!, while human girls looks like……… anime high school chicks from your typical “Kawaii Onii-chan” anime

It’s a fantasy game… If you want real life, look away from the screen o.O. Now, if you consider that back then in the past, nutrition isn’t that great. People back in the past aren’t big and muscled as athletes nowadays due to nutrition. How can we even guess how Norns look o.O? Personally, I like Anet’s interpretation. The female norn can look deadly while pretty.

Also, one more funny thing xD. Aren’t female characters meant to be played by girls? There are game studies that show girls tend to like feminine characters more (and so do guys).

I have to agree that Norn females are by far the hottest thing in this game and I can say that in all of the cut-scenes with Eir I have absolutely no idea what was being said or what was even going on. However, in response to people complaining that characters look too young, you should remember that Guild Wars likely takes place a long time ago and back then it was common for people to die at 40, so at 25 you would be considered middle-aged. They didn’t have the medicine to keep people alive until they resemble a shriveled up plum.

I’ll keep my nine foot tall supermodel, thank you very much.

You can make some giant helga beast woman on your own dime.

KyleQuest.4639:

Isn’t the whole point of this, is to have as many options as possible? We should simply be asking for more options. Body sliders for muscle volume and body fat would be great. Additional options for scars and tattoo’s are fine. (Even though I personally do not wish to promote tattoo’s Additional zones for dyeing armor and hopefully weapons. I’d say yes to it all because each of us should be happy with our character creations.

I read yesterday they’re working on character customization for after the roll. So, we’ll be able to modify our current builds as more options come on line.

Haha I love how contradictory this post is… essentially saying: “don’t let your personal opinions sway the fact that more options are always better… apart from tattoos, no one should have tattoos, bloody hooligans with tattoos!”

I actually think Norn females look like people while human females look like plastic barbie dolls.

What alot of you need to remember is that Norns aren’t human. We need to stop comparing Norns to Humans we see in real life.For all we know their muscles could be laced with magic or something thus allowing for thinner (in proportion to body) arms.

Remember Norn =/= Human

RoflandRoll.2810:

Remember Norn =/= Human

However, I think that it’s this logic that’s causing the breakdown. Norn as they are now are really dimorphic, with the men getting to be positively huge while the women can’t even get close to reaching the same kind of size difference (in comparison to human builds, that is.) Now, I understand that the female form is typically slimmer and has a harder time building muscle bulk than the male form, but it still seems like there’s some bizarre sexual dimorphism when you compare the two genders.

I actually like how I can make my Norn streamlined and athletic but not bulky. What’s cooler than a cool Norn Thief that looks deadly and beautiful? Plus, it rocks when my character elegantly takes down someone that looks meaner and tougher.

I think the Norn female could use some facial or body scars. I really think they did a great job on voice acting and zone creation. I think that all armor sets should be more practical and less frilly for the Norn. I think I found a normal looking body size and face without makeup for Norn Female Elementalist. I would love the Stag Cultural Armor if she could wear it.

Actually if you look at the lore in viking times the chief, and pretty much only, physical trait mentioned about beautiful women is their hair. To be beautiful the hair had to be long.

Other than that you don’t get much details about other traits that were considered “hot” looking for vikings.

My problem with female norn are the twig body type where their boobs are individually almost as wide as their waist. Their arms and legs in that body type are extremely unbelievable as well since (Most people that make them) use cultural armor or heavy armor types.

Let me put this into perspective for you, you are walking around with a multi hundred pound suit of plate/metal armor you’re going to develop some muscle mass… same can be said for the light armor cultural variants as well as medium (Leather… REAL leather isn’t light)

The ability to select this body type leads to everyone picking it because they want their COMBAT character to look like a porn star. Variety is why I picked the skinniest male norn, because they look like someone of reasonable Nordic Ancestry which was the intent with Norn.

tl;dr Female Norn have the option to be oversexualized, and I think giving people that option leads to a lack of diversity.

Both my female characters are Sylvari with small bust… you can in fact make a female character without making her looking rediculously over sexualized.

Dark Revan”

Read what charlie posted above your posts, i completely agree with what he said on there. Also you are the one being narrow-minded here, it almost seems like you don’t want slim characters and find it “crude” that other people do, lastly athletes aren’t all extremely buffed up and a lot of them are slim toned depending on what sport they do.

Always a sign of a bad argument when you have to ‘make up’ what the other person thinks in order to have something to lay into.

Of course I have no problem with the option of ‘slim’ characters in a fantasy MMO. I have a problem with there being no choice whatsoever outside of slim characters. Charlie is totally wrong to suggest those two thickest available female bodies are anything other than slim. They might not be skinny or willowy, but nor are they curvy; they’re neat and slim, just a little thick-necked.

The fact is the range of bodies is absurdly restricted. You can change the waist to boob size proportionally by an inch here or there, widen the shoulders and hips by an inch or so, and that’s about it. Women have a multitude of healthy body shapes. So do athletes, depending on their event. Neither range is represented here; we’re restricted to pole-vaulter and super-model type shapes.

So don’t make my opinion out to be something it isn’t, please. You can still have your precious skinny wench – but other people, women players in particular, should have a choice of body shapes which better represent the real range of shapes healthy women come in. I’m a male player and I’ll probably always pick slim women myself, realism be d***ed , but I’m tired of this widespread cultural discrimination against the majority of women.

And before anyone comes up with the old ‘men are equally stereotyped’ nonsense, nope. I’m a scrawny scarecrow of a guy and I can find my exact body double just by playing a Sylvari, and not get too far off with humans either.

Sorry, but I love my Norn female ranger! She is the most normal looking out of all the races in my opinion. She isn’t thick or overly curvy or a stick. Her build fits my build in rl, I like to make my toons realistic. I am a woman. I’m not butch or thick, I’m not a bean pole for that matter either. My toon is on the shortest setting and one of the smallest builds. The deep voice is a turn off, but I can live with it. I choose this race because of their natural beauty. Being a natural beauty is part of the allure of the Norn race in my opinion.
My Norn Ranger Aislin Akkadian

I personally think the norn bodies are pretty athletic. The thinnest is like very healthy athlete compared to like humans in Olympics.
What sort of sports did you guys expect from Norns o.O? I can imagine people growing rather nice proportional bodies if they exercised various muscles evenly, and that’s what I expect of the norn since they live and hunt outside. They’re not sitting at home and weight lifting XD. It wouldn’t make sense to see a Norn who muscle builds only and has poor cardio due to not exercising the other muscles evenly…
And I got to say, p-stars do not look like athletes… >.<.

Btw, if you want a build that looks like they have a normal bust size, choose the default for Norn Thief. That’s a pretty natural sized bust if size is so important lol.

kenshinakh”

It wouldn’t make sense to see a Norn who muscle builds only and has poor cardio due to not exercising the other muscles evenly…

Firstly, realism is out the window in this game. People can’t use wooden longbows or swing giant metal swords without being pretty ripped up. Human females are way too willowy in general.

Secondly, women simply come in a wider variety of shapes and no amount of muscle-toning changes your basic frame.

That’s one way to see it too lol. Doesn’t that ask what we’re comparing Norns with? As it is right now, Norns can’t be asian. There are exceptions to larger and tall asians, but general asians are smaller. Heck, norns are like 9ft+ right xD? So they’re huge!

There’s interesting things about the human body though. Like, I have a friend, and she’s smaller than me and thinner, but she can out run me in any race lol. And I have my own body to compare with. I can lift as much as someone who looks like they have more muscles than me because my muscle density is higher or something, not puffed up to look large only. Bigger muscles != more strength.

I mean, I’m all for adding new options and making it possible to design ANY type of norn or character with certain body sizes. I was just arguing that current norns now seem to have pretty nice options that make sense in the context of the game xD. And another factor that makes it even more confusing is that Norns aren’t humans. Genetically too according to the wiki. So they aren’t held to any standards I guess.

I think a real life Norn woman would be comparable to this..

Our beloved Xena

Ansatsushaa.6103:

I think a real life Norn woman would be comparable to this..

Our beloved Xena

Careful there, Focks gets cranky when you make real world analogies that don’t fit
his perception.

Witnezz.8147:

Ansatsushaa.6103:

I think a real life Norn woman would be comparable to this..

Our beloved Xena

Careful there, Focks gets cranky when you make real world analogies that don’t fit
his perception.

I get cranky when people use real world comparisons in some misguided attempt to prove that all women have the same body structure. Or when people who can’t debate civilly resort to snide remarks. ;-)

I picked a Norn female because I was both amused and grateful to find Anet had made a character model that was hot without being an unrealistic body shape.

Norn females are not pretty enough, the body anyways, I want my norn to be slimmer and curvier !

Oddly I find female Norns actually look closer to real life humans than the in game humans themselves. The female humans in this game have this very Japanese doll look.

i like female norn alot too,but the voice probably sounds a little too old,like 40ish women,not that it’s bad tho…

So males norns get the option to be superhumanly broad and hulky, but somehow we have to stick with society’s standards and a certain selection of what “real” human women look like for the norn females? Its just a lame double standard.

Focksbot.6798:

Witnezz.8147:

Ansatsushaa.6103:

I think a real life Norn woman would be comparable to this..

Our beloved Xena

Careful there, Focks gets cranky when you make real world analogies that don’t fit
his perception.

I get cranky when people use real world comparisons in some misguided attempt to prove that all women have the same body structure. Or when people who can’t debate civilly resort to snide remarks. ;-)

civ·il (svl)
adj.
Sufficiently observing or befitting accepted social usages; not rude: a civil reply.

snide
adj. snid·er, snid·est
Derogatory in a malicious, superior way.

“It’s got nothing to do with the Scandinavian pornstars you’ve been ogling.”
“I find the attitude of you and others here narrow-minded and crude.”
“Charlie is totally wrong (period, end of story)”
“You can still have your precious skinny wench”

;-)

OP , GW2 is based on good looks.

Did you see the humans? They are mostly pretty (think the woman got 1 ugly face tops?)

So ofc norn are pretty.

Im glad my norn is this way. But if people feel bad about it , maybe they could add one or two ugly faces, still , you maybe ugly , my norn will still be … awesome.

If male norns look like this, then it makes all the sense in the world that we at least get the OPTION for female norns to remotely look like the same race.

Yeah, the real problem is that while Norn males are pretty distinctive from human males, the females are not. This also means that there’s too much distinction between norn males and norn females.

I couldn’t stand how in WoW the males of every race had way more exaggerated features than the females. It needs to be one way or the other. I’m with the OP, the female norn need to look less like human females and more like the rugged winter-bitten half-giants they’re supposed to be.

If i had option 2 of those photos directly above me available to make for my norn woman, that’s what I would have chosen.

It’s not that they are pretty, it’s that there aren’t enough body and facial archetypes that say makeup? useless, I need to be able to run around and kick kitten if i want to. At least my norn looks like she squats.

There’s something amusing I wanted to point out about this debate XD. (But sure, more ugly builds are fine because it’s just more options for customization).

Go make a poll asking what FEMALE gamers want their FEMALE characters to look like, and then go make a poll asking what a MALE gamer wants their MALE character to look like. Now do the same, except this time, swap it, so ask what a FEMALE gamer wants their MALE characters to look like and what a MALE gamer wants their FEMALE character to look like.

There’s been some interesting research in these things (and I don’t have time to open up articles my college gave me). But it’s out there. The thing you’ll find is that FEMALE gamers tend to like pretty/girly female characters, and slim/cool male characters. Male gamers tend to like pretty/girly female characters, and bulky/muscular male characters.
Now, there’s statistics that show most gamers are male (but there’s more and more girl gamers lately). As game designers, you’re trying to reach out to as wide of an audience as you can, but in the time limits you have. So what’s the most obvious choice? Pretty female characters and tough looking male characters. However, a lot of game designers now are trying to make it have more powerful female characters vs old games with weaker female characters. So you have a lot of games that are making pretty but TOUGH female characters. Like in Gears of War 3 with Anya. Actually, GoW3 is a pretty good example of an attempt to balance between genders… You got bulky tough guys, and pretty but tough girls.

Okay. So there’s my explanation that comes from what I learned game designing lol. Have a good day.

I agree. I picked the bigger bodystyle because they’re supposed to be warriors but it just looks like the only things bigger are the boobs and the hips. The arms did get a little bigger so that’s good, I guess.

We also need a Norn female face with wrinkles around the eyes maybe even chapped skin. I mean they live in the tundra after all.

Witnezz.8147:

Focksbot.6798:

Witnezz.8147:

Ansatsushaa.6103:

I think a real life Norn woman would be comparable to this..

Our beloved Xena

Careful there, Focks gets cranky when you make real world analogies that don’t fit
his perception.

I get cranky when people use real world comparisons in some misguided attempt to prove that all women have the same body structure. Or when people who can’t debate civilly resort to snide remarks. ;-)

civ·il (svl)
adj.
Sufficiently observing or befitting accepted social usages; not rude: a civil reply.

snide
adj. snid·er, snid·est
Derogatory in a malicious, superior way.

“It’s got nothing to do with the Scandinavian pornstars you’ve been ogling.”
“I find the attitude of you and others here narrow-minded and crude.”
“Charlie is totally wrong (period, end of story)”
“You can still have your precious skinny wench”

;-)

I’ll give you the fourth one.

First one is an adroit riposte. Second is a fair statement of my opinion. Third wasn’t me. I know that without looking because I’m English, and we don’t say ‘period’ to mean a full stop.

I can’t play norn females/any norn cause they are just too built. I tried making a necromancer one and I just couldn’t stand the way norns running animation is and the manly arms. I mean sure charr females have built arms but it matches with there ‘beastly’ structure. Norn females are more thicker then peanut butter!

Alurazle.5430:

Norn females are more thicker then peanut butter!

More to love

Yeah, god forbid you want to make an average looking female face in this game…yeah not even ugly, but just plain average. Tyria has suffered much it seems, but the females look like they’re ready for a fashion show rather then fighting. It’s stupid

While I absolutely love the female Norn’s bodies (we need more muscular women in RPGs), it really galls me that all their faces are cookie-cutter Hollywood “beautiful” and look like the result of dozens of plastic surgeries covered with tons of make-up.

There are only two faces I deem appropriate for a hardy norse woman. The one with the scars is very fitting, but the other one (second last in the top row), while it has sharp features, also has abominable rubber-boat lips.

They got the bodies right (breast size is debateable), why did they mess up the faces so badly?

“I am Norn, born of the rugged Shiverpeek Mountains. My people knows hardship like no other and one day, we will defeat our ancient foe with our cunning and strength. Come, danger, come adventure… but not untill I’m perfectly clean of skin, free of wrinkles and have applied a massive amount of mascara and lipstick.”

Here’s a little real life concept for you who get way into pointless debates like this:
Natural Selection.

Those who played Guild Wars 1 know Norns were hunters, and that they would rarely hunt with others unless they were worth hunting with. This goes with relationships too. We know ancestry and accomplishments matters a lot too.
Resulting from this cultural adaption you can easily visualize the selection process, in order for two norns to be interested in each other they’d have to find each other impressive. This means only the most impressive Norns breed because they were the ones getting approved for marriage. Ergo, the best norns continues their heritage, and that’s probably why you consider Norn females so pretty.

Then some of you argue that only the females are ‘forced to be pretty’. Again, simple biology folks. The goal of the male is to spread his seed. How does he find the superior partners? He looks.
Females? They have to make sure they get someone who will take care of them when they’re pregnant and vulnerable. This means we have different established values for each gender.

Then how come it doesn’t count for humans when it counts for these romanticized vikingsinsque hunters? Different cultures. Humans don’t share the same value with norns, and that’s why we have different outcomes.

Now the interesting part is that since they’ve lost a lot of their old hunting culture, we could expect to have less strict relationship, and they could probably lose their attributes, but that would probably not be until Guild Wars 3.

And yeah, I know this is probably not the intention behind norn females beauty, probably just because that’s what people want. But it’s pretty pointless complaining about it when it can actually be explained through reasoning. Arenanet offers us a world to play in, their rules their lore. If they want big beautiful humanoids they’re going to make them.

Be careful touting evo-psych as if it was absolute truth. For one, “beauty standards” are neither objective nor universal, especially when it comes to different species. And if you think that hetero women don’t care about looks, think again. Not to mention that it’s established that norn only go for people whom they consider equals. An untested, scrawny, helpless-acting woman-child isn’t going to cut it in the eyes of the hetero norn guys. They want someone who can drink them under the table and still shoot a minotaur at a hundred paces afterwards. :p

Also, the “their game, their rules” angle is just irritating. Goodness forbid that women (or gays, or blacks, or other generally marginalized people) ask for better representation. Or that we have more options in general. Does “their game, their rules” apply to everything else that people voice concern, frustration or suggestions about, too?

@Rial and CharrGirl: thumbs up. Sadly, when it comes to women’s looks, it’s usual all seen in black or white. Either you’re Hollywood-gorgeous or you’re “ugly”. Either you’re stick-thin or you’re “fat”. Either you have huge kitten spilling out of your skimpy dress, or you “look like a man”. Goodness forbid we’re “allowed” look average, as you said.

Rial.3798:

While I absolutely love the female Norn’s bodies (we need more muscular women in RPGs).

I think this is sort of ironic and funny because i personally think they’re not muscular enough. lol. I train girls with bigger biceps (proportional to height) than these norn women.

Holm.7058:

Here’s a little real life concept for you who get way into pointless debates like this:
Natural Selection.

“Natural selection” is a completely pointless argument in this context because these races and women are completely made up. Anet could have made them obese or have wolf heads or blue skin and it could be rationalized somehow in this fantasy setting. Many people just get tired of seeing the same old tired gender-based double standards regarding how women are “supposed” to look in RL and other media and feel that in a scenario where you have the opportunity to create a female image, you should have as much freedom to make that image be what you want (especially when it knocks down double standards).

Chadramar.8156:

Be careful touting evo-psych as if it was absolute truth. For one, “beauty standards” are neither objective nor universal, especially when it comes to different species.

Considering they’re heavily inspired by romanticized vikings, I don’t think I’d be far off comparing the two. Also if there’s different beauty standards, how do you know if norns consider each other to be pretty?!

And if you think that hetero women don’t care about looks, think again.

Never said otherwise.

Not to mention that it’s established that norn only go for people whom they consider equals. An untested, scrawny, helpless-acting woman-child isn’t going to cut it in the eyes of the hetero norn guys. They want someone who can drink them under the table and still shoot a minotaur at a hundred paces afterwards. :p

Confirms my point

Also, the “their game, their rules” angle is just irritating. Goodness forbid that women (or gays, or blacks, or other generally marginalized people) ask for better representation. Or that we have more options in general. Does “their game, their rules” apply to everything else that people voice concern, frustration or suggestions about, too?

Yeah it’s their rule. Sorry to say but norn females were “too pretty” in Guild Wars 1, if their prettiness lore is too much to handle you shouldn’t have bought the sequal. And you keep being a hypocrite, first you say I can’t use evolution theory to explain a phenotype, and then you say the problem with norn is they make an unfair representation of a real life thing. Your own argument is I can’t apply evolution because it’s fiction, and then you complain about something fictional.

panzer.6034:

Holm.7058:

Here’s a little real life concept for you who get way into pointless debates like this:
Natural Selection.

“Natural selection” is a completely pointless argument in this context because these races and women are completely made up. Anet could have made them obese or have wolf heads or blue skin and it could be rationalized somehow in this fantasy setting. Many people just get tired of seeing the same old tired gender-based double standards regarding how women are “supposed” to look in RL and other media and feel that in a scenario where you have the opportunity to create a female image, you should have as much freedom to make that image be what you want (especially when it knocks down double standards).

These gender based standards are all in your head. Are Charrs also the medias way of portraying cats the way they should be? Are Sylvari really how plants should be?
If Arenanet wants to make Norn females pretty, they’re kitten going to do so. If I made a game I wouldn’t care at all what people saw in my lore, it’s my lore so you either enjoy it or not.

If anything you should be complaning about how little clothes light armor female human/norn have on. That’s silly.

And to those who think you can only make a pretty norn:

I find it interesting that this sort of discussion appears in pretty much every MMO. And yet, if the choice to be “average” or “ugly” or “fat” or “old” or “thick” is there…next to nobody ever uses it. Can it just be that the vast majority of us wants to be pretty and young rather than bland and old? And with that in mind, making those body models would just be a giant waste of resources, perhaps?

I -will- admit that given the Norn lore making women physically equally strong as their men, the males’ much thicker bodies don’t make a a whole lot of sense (why is nature giving males biceps like tree trunks if the women can achieve the same strength with a less energy consuming body?). But then again, neither do modern aviator glasses in a fantasy game make any sense, so I will just cast the mantle of disbelief on that. shrug

Personally, I’d rather change the males than the females. I don’t like their over-exaggerated bodies at all, as I picture nordic warriors to be tall and well-trained instead of the brutish bear shapes they gave them. They look more like bouncers that way.

Taste is a funny thing…

Kimyrielle.3826:

I find it interesting that this sort of discussion appears in pretty much every MMO. And yet, if the choice to be “average” or “ugly” or “fat” or “old” or “thick” is there…next to nobody ever uses it. Can it just be that the vast majority of us wants to be pretty and young rather than bland and old? And with that in mind, making those body models would just be a giant waste of resources, perhaps?

I remember once reading an article about this. Some game studio (don’t remember who) wanted to address the issue of not making female characters all look like supermodels, so they went out of their way to model “realistic” faces and body shapes, along with realistic armor and costumes. However, after the game was released, they were flooded with complaints from players (male AND female) that they couldn’t make “pretty” characters.

What the entire episode revealed was that the majority of players DO want to look young, sexy and gorgeous, so it makes sense for a developer to provide mostly models that do just that. As a roleplayer, I’m all for including plain/pudgy/grotesque face and body options too, but I can guarantee that only a minority of players would actually use them (and usually these are joke characters where the goal is to make them as hideous as possible).

Kimyrielle.3826:

Personally, I’d rather change the males than the females. I don’t like their over-exaggerated bodies at all, as I picture nordic warriors to be tall and well-trained instead of the brutish bear shapes they gave them. They look more like bouncers that way.

I actually lean the other way. I’d prefer it if Norn females had a body type closer to their male counterparts; more stocky and barrel-shaped. Norn females have more or less the same proportions as Human females; put a very short Norn woman and a very tall Human woman together, and you can barely tell who is who without being familiar with the hairstyles available to each race. But put a very short Norn man and a very tall Human man together and you can instantly tell at a glance who is the Norn.

if you think about Jora, I’m agree…
got hope for pretty face, nice looking armor and got big fat slow moving horror….

Norn have been around since 2007. It’s not like they’re a brand new race that didn’t exist in GW(1). Most of the female norn NPCs in GW1 look like the female norn in GW2. If anything, the males are the ones that don’t look like norn are “supposed to”.

I’m not saying you can’t ask for more options, but saying the current options are “wrong” or “not muscled/rugged enough” for a norn when the females of the race have looked like Jora or Sif Shadowhunter (a warrior and a ranger respectively, not even casters) since norn were first created is a little ridiculous.

I’m happy with the body types overall, though I wish there was a muscular skin version of the largest form.

Faces I agree are a little on the barbie-doll side. With a little work at the sliders you can make a look that is still attractive but not so supermodely (it’s a word, cuz I say so). I’d post mine, but I’m at work.