Guild Wars 2

Frankly, I’d rather see more slim options for Norn males and more stocky, thick options for Norn females, even a bit overweight. Norn males all look like pro wrestlers on steroids. I’m sorry but I like my men to be pretty, if I make a male toon – it’s partly for eye candy. I was lured here by how pretty the men are as opposed to some other popular MMO where they’re all ugly as sin.

More scars? All for it. Scars add character, I’d love to see body scars – marks of a true warrior!

KrakenAZ.9367:

I’m happy with the body types overall, though I wish there was a muscular skin version of the largest form.

I hear ya. i’d like to “upgrade” to the largest body type but i don’t want to give up the awesome 6-pack.

I love the body type for the Nord women, but the facial models could use some scarred and weathered options.

For those citing studies about when men and women want in their male and female video game characters, and saying both want “pretty” female characters, could you provide sources? I’m interested in whether age was taken into account, and what age ranges the study subjects were in.

Because I’ve also heard citations for studies (which I need to also track down) where women into their 30s and up don’t necessarily consider tiny waist to be important in attractiveness, as long as there’s a differential in proportions.

From anecdotal experience, most people who I know are playing are in their 30s and 40s, and the women playing this or other games prefer fantasy women characters who are on the wider side (whether they are in RL or not), and give the impression that they can really kick kitten Most of us are to varying degrees, disgusted that boots with heels are even an option offered for barbarian giants who run around and can fight anything. Attractive is nice, but for a fantasy giant warrior, that can include more scarring. Since one of the conversations you hear around Hoelbrak is between two male Norn talking, and one is concerned that if he fights with his wife, she might beat him up, the extent of sexual dimorphism seems somewhat ridiculous. They’re a different species, they’re not human, but the idea that men need that mass of muscle and women of the same species have at their most muscular and biggest, so much less, is incredibly inconsistent. If it’s a concern that a huge muscular man thinks it’s a real option that his wife would beat the crap out of him.

It’s about choice. If someone wants their super skinny human, but taller, the option is there. Why not have options for more variation into plainness and scarring, and more variety in builds? As pointed out, it’s a fantasy game. To be more immersed into fantasy, some people would like to build a character that fits a fighting woman mental view without stretching the imagination to breaking.

Neferteri.7342:

Since one of the conversations you hear around Hoelbrak is between two male Norn talking, and one is concerned that if he fights with his wife, she might beat him up, the extent of sexual dimorphism seems somewhat ridiculous. They’re a different species, they’re not human, but the idea that men need that mass of muscle and women of the same species have at their most muscular and biggest, so much less, is incredibly inconsistent. If it’s a concern that a huge muscular man thinks it’s a real option that his wife would beat the crap out of him.

Yeah, because winning in fights is definitely defined by who has the biggest muscle mass. It’s definitely not about speed, tactics, or experience. Just strength.

The whole reason that conversation is put in the game is to reinforce the norn flavor that Anet has built around the norns regarding their women being equal to men. In that context, its pretty ironic that they have to cop-out, reinforcing RL social norms and gender roles when it comes to norn aesthetics by making the women look like barbie next to the hulk. Its an old, and frankly tired, double standard.

Holm.7058:

Yeah, because winning in fights is definitely defined by who has the biggest muscle mass. It’s definitely not about speed, tactics, or experience. Just strength.

Past a certain point, yes, sheer size and muscle mass will trump speed, tactics or experience in any fight (unless weapons are involved). There is no way that a chihuahua could win in a fight against a lion, for example.

But strictly speaking about humanoid combat, experience, speed and technique can count for a lot, but you still need a certain amount of bulk and strength to pull it off. Take a look at professional female fighters or athletes. They have physiques and musculature that are equal to that of a male counterpart. The idea that frail, delicate females with no obvious muscles or bulk can hold their own in a fight against tougher opponents (known as “waif-fu”) is frankly a myth. Everything else being equal, the bigger, stronger opponent will always win.

panzer.6034:

The whole reason that conversation is put in the game is to reinforce the norn flavor that Anet has built around the norns regarding their women being equal to men. In that context, its pretty ironic that they have to cop-out, reinforcing RL social norms and gender roles when it comes to norn aesthetics by making the women look like barbie next to the hulk. Its an old, and frankly tired, double standard.

I thought it was for getting more body builds? If you played GW1, you should know that Anet built norns to be thicker and more muscular in GW2. And it’s really tiring to hear you keep saying that it’s keeping to double standards or whatever standards… Norn women does not look like barbie at all, especially if you dress your characters properly. Also, don’t be undressing your characters and looking at them >.>. Put on some nice armor and you’ll see there’s more to a character than just their body shape…

[I was about to cite sources for some of the research things and a page long response but my session timed out and I lost my post… Not going to spend another hour writing it lol].

I’m all for adding more body customizations because people all have different tastes.

Oh also, there’s a limitation on how muscular bodies can get. That goes for both female and male bodies. Muscles can build more based on testosterones I think, and I have never seen a female athlete that has muscles big as how big guys can get, unless they were using steroids.
The average female gamer (teens to late 20s) do not like their characters being a sex symbol. They do like their characters to be strong, smart, dressed practically, and decent looking (these values are subjective).
Games are following the trend of going for less oversexualized/damsel in distress/useless eye candy female characters to stronger/tougher female characters. And GW2 follows that, giving you these norns here (when compared to past game character designs and from past games, they’re a HUGE improvement over the past). Maybe it’s not yet at the point where it’s completely balanced, but I say they did a dang good job at making beautiful but tough characters that fit quite well with what I imagine the fictional Norn race of Tyria to be.

kenshinakh.3672:

And it’s really tiring to hear you keep saying that it’s keeping to double standards or whatever standards… Norn women does not look like barbie at all, especially if you dress your characters properly. Also, don’t be undressing your characters and looking at them >.>. Put on some nice armor and you’ll see there’s more to a character than just their body shape…

Someone would have to have their head pretty deep in the sand to not recognize the huge double standard at play here. The males are giant hulks and the women are positively tiny by comparison. The barbie vs. hulk analogy is very appropriate.

Its also interesting that you bring up armor too, since it merely exacerbates the problem. When you see a full-sized norn female next to a norn male and they are both wearing the exact same armor, they barely look like the same species. I remember seeing a norn male wearing a sweet pauldron and i was about to ask him what it was, until i realized it was the same one i was currently wearing … only 8x larger (because the volume of his character was THAT much greater).

Oh also, there’s a limitation on how muscular bodies can get. That goes for both female and male bodies. Muscles can build more based on testosterones I think, and I have never seen a female athlete that has muscles big as how big guys can get, unless they were using steroids.

1. This argument has no weight when you are talking about a made-up race in fantasy game where tiny blue people shoot fireballs at dragons.

2. Even in RL, there are women with far more proportional muscle mass than the norn women in GW2. The norn men are far larger, proportionally, than a “normal” human male in RL while the norn women look like every other “normal” human female is see running on a treadmill.

There is no reason to keep reinforcing the barbie vs hulk double standard. It would be refreshing (plus more balance and veristic) to get this as an option:

You’re serious o.O? That woman has more muscles than an average fit male. But if that’s your taste, fair enough. Just don’t force your ideals as being true. Keep it as an opinion.

I’m just arguing that the current portrayal of norns are okay to me. The female norn is about 2/3 the width of a male, so that’s not like barbie vs hulk… Also, when you say barbie, you imply the character is stick skinny, and norns are nothing like that. And by the way, norn women do not look like every other “normal” human female… I say they’re like some super humans, above Olympic athletes depending on which build you pick. Very few women in real life have such muscle proportions as the most muscular norn body you can get. Though I’ve seen women with more muscles than norn… they used steroids and that stuff really messes up people’s bodies >.>. I’m not interested in my characters looking like they’re pumped up on steroids lol. Even so, this is a fantasy world right? Then why can’t I imagine all my characters, men and women alike to be proportionally nice, and beautiful to my standards while being really strong? Norns are supposed to be able to lift bolders the size of trucks, and well… that’s physically impossible. The realm of reality is already out the window. So that brings it around to why we even need to make absurdly large and muscled races when we could say “This is a fantasy world and these humanoid creatures are not required to follow realism”.

And about the armor thing, armor does seem to “transform” when going from male to female, but modify my armor anyways to something else. The options are there to hunt down designs you like. Also, realize that it’s a preference of taste. Some people like designs on females more while some like designs on male. That’s why armor modification exists in the first place.

Get this… I am REALLY for additional bodies because that way it fits more people, but I’m also defending my own view, which is I strongly believe the current norns are very well designed and are both beautiful and tough. They’re like diamonds. I love the portrayal and the art design of the norn and strongly believe they are what they are in Tyria. I really don’t see it reinforcing the barbie standards because I just don’t every look at my character and say she’s just a pretty stick figure (I find barbie kinda scary though btw…). Instead, she’s a beautiful but deadly Norn and despite her size (she’s shortest), she can take down the largest Norns. That’s just view though.

Just to emphasize, I’m for more body options… I’m against some of the portrayals of what Norns should look like and what they look like currently.

kenshinakh.3672:

You’re serious o.O? That woman has more muscles than an average fit male. But if that’s your taste, fair enough. Just don’t force your ideals as being true. Keep it as an opinion.

Then why can’t I imagine all my characters, men and women alike to be proportionally nice, and beautiful to my standards while being really strong?

How exactly do you reconcile these two statement? When i tell you what i’d like to see you give me “You’re serious o.O?” and “Just don’t force your ideals as being true. Keep it as an opinion.” but then you turn around and want your own standards of what is beautiful. Remember, i said up thread that i wanted the OPTION for body types that actually looked like female counterparts to the males.

Though I’ve seen women with more muscles than norn… they used steroids and that stuff really messes up people’s bodies >.>. I’m not interested in my characters looking like they’re pumped up on steroids lol.

You claim you’re not interested in steroids and yet you say you’re fine with the norn design, including males!? You don’t see the glaring hypocrisy and double standard here? Its fine when men are superhumanly broad and massive, but when women have muscles its “eww, gross, steroids!” IRL, women can have more proportional muscle mass than the female norn presented, without steroids, and the fact that you’re playing the “eww, steroids” card is a symptom of the exact sort of society-enforced beauty standards and general B.S. that i’m lamenting in the first place.

Just to emphasize, I’m for more body options… I’m against some of the portrayals of what Norns should look like and what they look like currently.

Fair enough. All i’m saying is that it would be nice for once if a game gave the option for females to generally look big and powerful when the option is everywhere for the males already. If males get to be big and bulky, its only fair to let that be a female option too, especially in this sort of game where it fully fits with the flavor of the race/lore.

The “You’re serious o.O?” part was meant for the sentence that accompany it, to show I was amazed at how much muscles that woman had compared to an average fit male. I’m sorry if it came off confusing or offending.

Spoiler is my text that is a lot of my own opinion. Continuing off it would detract from the point of the thread, but I wanted to say it so you see what I meant.

Anyways, we both agree for more body options and that’s all that really matters for this. More options to make bulky females, and more options to make thinner males. That sounds like a good compromise that can fit the tastes of a lot of gamers.

kenshinakh.3672:

I have not yet extensively played with that to know how much bigger they could be, but I felt that the typical male model for norn seems “believable”.

Just for a frame of reference, this is a maximum-sized heavy armor female norn next to the sort of typical male norn i see all the time. Notice how his arm is the size of her ENTIRE TORSO. lol. They don’t even look like the same species.

I would check it out closely and screenshot some but I’m out of character slots lol.

But I just think it’s personal preferences and views. To me that seems like they’re the same species. That’s just my opinion though. Also, the armor designs on male characters add a big amount of bulk to them compared to the designs for females.

I don’t know. That Spartian chick I saw in 300 didn’t have scars.

I agree the Norn female are pretty much oversize human females players that have intentions to create a female human use norn female as an alternative

“Norn Females are too pretty”

I completely disagree. This a is a computer game. It’s supposed to represent a stylized version of reality, in other words “fantasy”. Who fantasizes about playing a roid popping bodybuilder female? No body. Who fantasizes about playing an overweight, average looking woman. No one. I play games to escape reality and to be visually “wowed”. So if I’m going to be staring at the backside of a woman all day, roaming the lands, it better be a darn fine backside!

I give full commendations to the devs and designers on this one. I think they got the balance perfect on the Norns (Who are we kidding, they are meant to be “Nords” Right?) in general. I really like how the females look and also how they emote. Stubborn, hardy, and abrasive, yet confident, wistful and beautiful too. Its a wonderful mix.

Norn females are fine with that they are now. You look at a Norn female and get a feeling that she ain’t interested in BS and they’re definitely not into loli couture/looks; we leave that sort of stuff for the female humans.

However, that doesn’t mean that Norn females don’t have a sense of style or don’t give a kitten about their looks. As for their cleavage, remember that they live in the frozen norths; they need to store fat somewhere.

LydonB.6293:

As for their cleavage, remember that they live in the frozen norths; they need to store fat somewhere.

Yeah, i love how well endowed they are. The Norn women, are very amazonian in their appearance and physic. Actually if you think about it…

Nord + Amazon – Amazo = Norn

Who’s up for snuu snuu?

What really annoyed me with the Norn women is that there are too pretty for the voices they have!

i wouldn’t mind seeing bulkier norn females with scruffier faces.. though lot of norn girls look like human males from the back… >.> um but i would also like to see more of a youthful smooth faced not too skiny norn male… but i am ok with what we have

Norns look like Norn women, Human women look like human women i dont see the point in this post. you can make a norn look like anything you want there are far many customizations if you have a problem with how other people make their norns women well thats their problem.

I don’t know about the rest of this thread, but I just wanted to say that Eir Stegalkin is way hotter than she has any right to be.

JMadFour.9730:

I don’t know about the rest of this thread, but I just wanted to say that Eir Stegalkin is way hotter than she has any right to be.

agreed.

again: norn arent humans, someone in this thread said in these times people usually didnt got older than somewhere between 25-40, however the norns reach ages of up to 120 “human” years, based on their lore. and during the storyline it is mentioned sometimes that eir actually is quiet old, if not one of the oldest norn alive, howver i couldnt figure out her real age in the story, nor does she look old in any way (male norns can look damn old / experienced)

to those guys who think slim, athletic = fit: Norns arent athletes, they are warriors, they eat pork and drink beer all day long. And NO, experience/technique/speed does NOT win over pure strength in a fair fight without dirty tricks(by the way, speed comes ONLY from Strenght, not from a tiny, thin body (less wind resistance hurr durr). This is just some weird modern anime/ninja delusion that has taken over). As it stands now, norn females would in no possible way stand a chance against a male in a fight, which doesnt reflect their background and lore or what they are supposed to be, at all.

but it wont matter how much is discussed about if they look like they should, because players dont care, they want their pretty model faces to fap to while playing.

Remember when Skyrim came out, most females in the game actually looked quiet realistic, dirty, natural, less or even no makeup, only very few female npcs in the game were actually considered hot. What happened to that game? people didnt like the females, and had do release their own Mods to replace female faces with anime girls and supermodels and put a ton of makeup on all the female faces.

The Norn female faces have perfect complexion without any wrinkles or scarring, but they look a lot more mature and older than human faces.

Johnson.3874:

Greetings here,

So, here is my statement : Norn female are far too pretty. They look like models. And I’m not only talking about their real hot body (Did you take a look at those boobies ? Gosh, with the Tier 1 cultural chestpiece, when I see a norn female running, it’s like time has stopped… seeing those poor constricted melons yelling “free me ! It’s so tight in here !” always bring a tear to my eyes), but mostly about their faces. Those are only cute dolls faces.
.

It’s a computer animated woman. When that starts to turn you on, you need to get laid BIG TIME =P

I realize that folks consistently try to remove the parallel to a normal human physique, but it is undeniably there.

Warriors are fit. Warriors of any era are no exception. Time spent training creates strength, and with strength speed and athletic dexterity. The notion that all the time a “warrior race” would spend drinking and eating and partying it up would leave them overweight is a huge stretch.

Look at the warriors, athletes, essentially anyone capable of physical prowess in the human race. They are invariably fit. Directly to the topic, look at women as military personel, martial artists, and athletes. While certainly not all “ripped”. they are universally all quite fit. As am odd twist, a great majority of the very fit wind up with a “pretty” face as well, because being fit and health directly creates the physical attributes that the human race relates to as being attractive: in fact, the human race is unique in that the unattractive even have mating opportunies. Mating possibilities rapidly deteriorate and undesirable characteristics are bred out of other species because they instinctively do not create fat, unfit generations that may not survive to continue the species.

So….the moral of the story is that a warrior race WILL instinctively continue the survival of its species exclusively through body types that guarantee its continued survival.

On a decidedly less scientific note, I have three daughters and a wife. They invariably opt for traits on character creation that they find attractive. Clothing choices, however, are usually conservative.

Chipster.6713:

Johnson.3874:

Greetings here,

So, here is my statement : Norn female are far too pretty. They look like models. And I’m not only talking about their real hot body (Did you take a look at those boobies ? Gosh, with the Tier 1 cultural chestpiece, when I see a norn female running, it’s like time has stopped… seeing those poor constricted melons yelling “free me ! It’s so tight in here !” always bring a tear to my eyes), but mostly about their faces. Those are only cute dolls faces.
.

It’s a computer animated woman. When that starts to turn you on, you need to get laid BIG TIME =P

if that DOESN’T turn you on, you are either a kitten or you need imagination BIG TIME :O

It’s a beautiful fantasy world with beautiful people, let it be.

Ok ok… yeah more variety maybe, would be nice, sure (more face customization options, scars, more varied results with more sliders for different facial proportions, etc). But please don’t remove the existing ones or don’t temper with them at all (just add stuff if you want, that’s it).

curtegg.5216:

The term is voluptuous :-)

The term is delicious.

panzer.6034:

kenshinakh.3672:

I have not yet extensively played with that to know how much bigger they could be, but I felt that the typical male model for norn seems “believable”.

Just for a frame of reference, this is a maximum-sized heavy armor female norn next to the sort of typical male norn i see all the time. Notice how his arm is the size of her ENTIRE TORSO. lol. They don’t even look like the same species.

I agree.

I think it’s just a bit ridiculous. Same species, no difference in strength between genders, and yet, this gets completely thrown out the window when designing them. It’s utterly confusing how the models (in comparison to each other) got accepted in the first place.

Just look at the different models: The ratio in bulk-size difference between male and female norn is proportional to the difference between female norn and humans. That’s just not right.

Tarn.1374:

It’s utterly confusing how the models (in comparison to each other) got accepted in the first place.

While sad, its not incredibly surprising considering its the same gender stereotypes you see throughout pretty much every media. Males are allowed to be massive, far beyond your average man, in video games and comics while the women who are supposed to be their physical counterparts have to fit into a relatively narrow socially-defined ideal of femininity. See the Hulk vs. his female opposite. Guys are basically allowed to be superhumanly big in fantasy media, but if a woman even starts to even approach the size of a RL bodybuilder, people cry “roids” and start making rationalizations for an arbitrary double standard.

Guys if your female character is too pretty and distracting for you, go play a male.

I only like 1 female face I think the rest are a bit manly/ugly due to the huge jaw and thick einstein eyebrows.

However, norns are prettier than humans in my opinion as they look more mature. This is a difference I’m happy with because I don’t wanna run around on something that looks like a child from an anime (young face huge kitten .

I’d rather see the male norn less freakishly huge than see the females larger.

Female norns look like they did in gw1, if not slightly larger (i.e. how they should look). If your barbie doll looks like a female norn, your barbie doll was accidentally made with somewhat realistic proportions.

Male norns look like 2 gw1 male norn glued together. I understand they didn’t want norn to “just be big humans”, but the proportions of the male norns are absurd. They don’t even look like the same species as the gw1 MALE norn, forget comparing them to females from either game.

tl;dr: I’d rather see the male norn turned back into norn instead of misshapen roid monsters than see the females turned into misshapen roid monsters with boobs.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

I’d rather see the male norn less freakishly huge than see the females larger.

Female norns look like they did in gw1, if not slightly larger (i.e. how they should look). If your barbie doll looks like a female norn, your barbie doll was accidentally made with somewhat realistic proportions.

Male norns look like 2 gw1 male norn glued together. I understand they didn’t want norn to “just be big humans”, but the proportions of the male norns are absurd. They don’t even look like the same species as the gw1 MALE norn, forget comparing them to females from either game.

tl;dr: I’d rather see the male norn turned back into norn instead of misshapen roid monsters than see the females turned into misshapen roid monsters with boobs.

My thoughts exactly. I love the lore and atmosphere of the norn race but both of my norn characters are female because I cannot stand the bizarre proportions they gave the male norn. In my opinion they messed up the male norn and got the females exactly right.

Indeed Norn chicks are the hotest chicks in game
I’ve just created two new characters because of this an elementalist and mesmer (not quite typical proffesions for norn)

I like my purty norn gals (nice change of watching the running backside of my male norn Guard).

I don’t want realism. Its a kitten game, fer petes’ sake.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

Male norns look like 2 gw1 male norn glued together. I understand they didn’t want norn to “just be big humans”, but the proportions of the male norns are absurd. They don’t even look like the same species as the gw1 MALE norn, forget comparing them to females from either game.

I disagree. In fact, whenever I see this argument I always wonder if the person even played the first Guild Wars at all. Yes, it’s possible for male norn in GW2 to be much larger than the GW1 norn…if they take the bulkiest body type. The “average” norn male body type in GW2 is roughly the same size as the GW1 norn, however. I think this is only a trick of perception because most people, when making norn, go for the thickest body type because people play norn to be a huge brick.

The norn females could be a little broader/bigger, yes. But the human female bodies are more important to fix…

Human female bodies are far, far worse.

Compare the sizes of their arms and legs for a second. Even if their torsos were remotely possible in real life, them arms and legs…..

Personally, I don’t think game models should resemble too much of a real life model. This is a fantasy game, after all.

I like the way it is.

kuora.5402:

Personally, I don’t think game models should resemble too much of a real life model. This is a fantasy game, after all.

I like the way it is.

You say you like it the way it is but irony is that they DO resemble a real life model a million times more than the male. That’s part of the issue with sexual dimorphism is that the female are stuck looking like “real life” while the men get fantasy proportions.

panzer.6034:

kuora.5402:

Personally, I don’t think game models should resemble too much of a real life model. This is a fantasy game, after all.

I like the way it is.

You say you like it the way it is but irony is that they DO resemble a real life model a million times more than the male. That’s part of the issue with sexual dimorphism is that the female are stuck looking like “real life” while the men get fantasy proportions.

If you want to go down that far, norns don’t really resemble anyone in real life… :]

Female Norn models look like supermodels, and male norns look like a fat german guy or something. That’s not really fantasy.

Grakor.3450:

Terra Dactyl.2047:

Male norns look like 2 gw1 male norn glued together. I understand they didn’t want norn to “just be big humans”, but the proportions of the male norns are absurd. They don’t even look like the same species as the gw1 MALE norn, forget comparing them to females from either game.

I disagree. In fact, whenever I see this argument I always wonder if the person even played the first Guild Wars at all. Yes, it’s possible for male norn in GW2 to be much larger than the GW1 norn…if they take the bulkiest body type. The “average” norn male body type in GW2 is roughly the same size as the GW1 norn, however. I think this is only a trick of perception because most people, when making norn, go for the thickest body type because people play norn to be a huge brick.

yup, you got me, I got gwamm and filled my hall without ever playing gw1 for 4 years.

The bulkiest body type male norn was linked earlier on this page and described as “typical”, so I was responding as though that were true.

attachments: the largest female physique (if this is a stick, it’s a tree limb, if not a tree trunk. If this is “fat”, it pretty much explains why girls in the US have such an issue with body image), the medium male physique (fairly close to gw1 norn, pretty obviously the same species as the female), and the “typical male norn” most people use. His arms are more than half the size of his OWN torso. He barely looks like the same species as the smallest male physique.

tl;dr: If there’s any problem with norn physiques, gender stereotyping, or anything that doesn’t look like a norn is “supposed to”, it’s the raging musclebound steroid monster option for males, not the females’ lack of a similar raging steroid monster option.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

tl;dr: If there’s any problem with norn physiques, gender stereotyping, or anything that doesn’t look like a norn is “supposed to”, it’s the raging musclebound steroid monster option for males, not the females’ lack of a similar raging steroid monster option.

Its only a male stereotype if women don’t get to be steroid monsters too. If everyone is, then there is no double standard. Its the combination of both extremes that makes it an issue, not the present of one extreme or the other in a vacuum.

Of course, having a raging steroid male in itself is not a bad idea because it actually makes them distinct from the human physiques in the game. Its would be pointless to give them the exact same bodies as humans if they’re supposed to be completely different races, especially when you have sylvari, charr and asura who are obviously non-human.

My only comment is that, for me, Norns are big humans. Playing my norn and my gf playing her human, I normally think that I am the human, and she is a halfling.

Talking not only about norns, I hope ANet add soon more body tipes: fat bodies, “old” faces, hunched bodies, more scars, more tatoos, and so on.

After all, any race should be able to get tattooed.

I love my norn – the only drawback is that I see the same female norn face- which is why I chose a face that for some reason reminded me of Jill Valentine from the RE series shes a mesmer— plus legendaries are better on norns and charrs since they are bigger and you can see all the pretty details!

but about norn bodies- honestly, the male body model makes sense compared to the female but the females are soooo much smaller than the males – its just like a giant woman.

I agree, femnorns needed more options in the rugged department. You can argue that you want a ‘hot babe’ or whatever, but that’s kind of another peeve I have with the norn.

They’re just a slightly different flavour of human being presented as another race.

panzer.6034:

The whole reason that conversation is put in the game is to reinforce the norn flavor that Anet has built around the norns regarding their women being equal to men. In that context, its pretty ironic that they have to cop-out, reinforcing RL social norms and gender roles when it comes to norn aesthetics by making the women look like barbie next to the hulk. Its an old, and frankly tired, double standard.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head, especially in making humans in any game. Auto-makeup implies that “this is what women look like!” when they really under all the gloss, they don’t. They look normal, they look like people. GW2 is only showing a reflection of culture, but still…

I want a female norn with bulging legs like these:
http://www.muscleandfitness.com/sites/muscleandfitness.com/files/styles/650x360_rotator/public/leg.jpg

Women where I grew up look like the first woman here, but with wider hips (hourglass): http://ninamatsumoto.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/athletes10.jpg
Actually I’d say we have a bit more muscle definition (she looks very tense like she’s flexing, but we look more muscular than that when relaxing). Women at home looked like that from 20 – 50 years old, just a bit more muscular than that. Even after 5-6 kids.

(Every family was responsible for their own food, because we didn’t have grocery stores back then… so women and men both worked really hard)

If we look like that without exercising… a norn, who hunts and fights, should be even more muscular.

So the photo of Stacy Bowers wouldn’t be unreasonable. I think even more muscular would be good.
(first woman from the right) http://ninamatsumoto.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/athletes09.jpg
.
.

I want wide shoulders with clear muscle definition on the neck area, and then beefier arms:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kzsfbuMb4Ys/TFg4AxWabPI/AAAAAAAAEUw/rtNcOTI7bjA/s1600/dscf7373-blogbiceps.jpg
.
.

A lot of the norn faces are really good, but the make up is just wrong for a norn.
And I prefer more realistic faces. “Perfect faces” like models look very creepy to me. It makes me cringe…

I’m a hunter. I’m a fighter. I’m not a samba dancer or model. I want a face that reflects that.
.
.

I’m way more attracted to normal faces. Normal lips. Plain natural make up is fine, but not too much. Even in the military they wouldn’t wear as much make up as norn women do. But I think it would be FUN to have “make up” headgear. Specially for light armor.
Instead of 100 different masquerade masks that all look the same anyway, they could make a “make-up mask”. So you could pick which make up you want, if any, by buying a certain kind of headpiece. Different styles of make up: plain, medium, heavy makeup; Then different colors: natural, subtle, heavy; Tattoos, war paint, piercings, chains, (not that these are my kind of thing, but it would be cool for a norn!).

I hate perfect eyebrows. I want messy eyebrows. It doesn’t have to be unibrow, it doesn’t have to have lots of stray hairs. The eyebrows can be well-kempt, but not so perfect that it looks like fake penciled eyebrows.

I don’t want bulging botox lips, why do all the norns have it? I know certain races have bigger lips, but they would still look natural, not caked with make up.
It makes it difficult to make thinner lips, because the lips were designed to be big . When you make them thinner, the texture looks wrong. It would be good to have some lip designs that work for thinner lips too.

Compared to norn, angelina jolie’s lips look thin ^^
Heck, even angelina jolie looks like an “average girl” compared to norn women!

I want more unperfect faces like male norns have. It doesn’t have to be “ugly” or “brute” faces, just more… realistic.
Actually, I think the faces on those images of atheletes I linked look very, very beautiful. I would be happy to have a character with those faces. I would like those a lot more than the “magazine cover” faces we have in game right now.
.
.

Whatever happened to Gw1 warpaint? :-(
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Highlander_Woad
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Norn_Woad
I guess we have those as tattoos, but it would be nice to have it as armor.