Guild Wars 2

How do you guys feel about the combat in SAB? I personally feel it’s a bit wonky combined with SAB’s sensitivity to lag, hit detection issues and Josh fighting the engine etc. To me personally combat feels like just an obstacle between me and the next part, rather than part of the fun.

Enemy designs are quite nice overall I think, they have simple and easy to understand attack patterns with clear telegraph animations, you quickly learn how they work and are given reasonable window to work with what you have learned. I think this direction is very good.

But with lag screwing up you and your enemy’s position, hit detection being less than ‘pixel perfect’(both understandably a technical issue), the type of combat SAB is trying to simulate, those 8-bit metrovania(or spelunky for a more recent example) style combat, doesn’t quite work as it should. Those games rely on pixel perfect hit box and responsive/razor sharp controls. What you see and expect is exactly what happens. However in SAB, you cannot exactly afford these for technical reasons.

Position/distance of you and your enemy can be off, especially against enemies that move a lot(assassins, beedogs, sometimes even bunnies!). Hitboxes are largely invisible and somewhat arbitrary(not that it’s a bad thing inherently, it just doesn’t mix well with this type of combat). And compared to general GW2 combat, each hit counts a lot. With 2 seconds CC that can screw up your platforming.(which goes on to further exaggerate every little kinks in the combat) All of these combined, You cannot accurately gauge the distance between you and your enemy/range of your attacks, and I often find myself desperately strafing and auto-attacking in the air, praying that it hits the enemy before it hits me. That’s not very 8-bit.

One thing I noted is that I really enjoyed the boss battles however. I think it works so nicely since it’s more about learning the enemy, knowing what to do and using the right tools, as opposed to being reliant on precision maneuver. You could say it’s controlled and gimmicky, but it works in the context of SAB. It fits nicely with the platformer/adventure side of things. I do not think every single encounter with enemies should feel like this, since it’s also an action platformer, but I think there are ways to find the middle ground that works and fits better. (Maybe a block/counter mechanic, if you want to keep the ‘each hit counts’ aspect? Or make each hit easier/safer to connect while enemies are more aggressive and persistent?)

Additionally, more specific complaints.

• Movement/dodge roll as primary means of defense is a nice mechanic, but one that does not always work in a platformer environment, especially in tight spaces and near ledges. Perhaps if we could replace dodge roll with a stationary channeled block that drains endurance meter….(SAB team against the engine part 3 coming soon!) Whip can sort of work like this on 1v1 situations, but as stated above, hitbox/position lag isn’t all that reliable.
• Enemies charging through you and damaging you on touch. I don’t know if it’s an intended behavior or just another case of lag doing its magic(the fact that i cannot tell them apart is… :/ ), if it’s a bug or a lag issue, please fix it!
• If it is intended, I do not think it works too well in GW2 environment. They are hard to see coming, and sort of not fitting since your main attack is melee. I think it’d be better if this was given to select enemies as a well-telegraphed attack pattern, or remove it entirely, or at least make it do 0 damage + stationary knockdown, not a launch.
• monkey projectiles/racoon kingpin bombs/ etc. should do damage only when they land on the target location, not on the way there. We have shuriken assassins for that. It will also make it easier to balance the time it takes for them to throw those projectiles, since you now know exactly when the damage will be dealt.
• Assassins. omg those red assassins. They provide the prime example of a combat where ‘you desperately strafe and auto-attacking in the air, praying that it hits the enemy before it hits you’. Break up their movement in multiple parts(for example, moves less frequently but dashes at you faster after a wind up), or make them pause for a second before doing their leap attack, or something.
• Assassins. omg those flail assassins.
• As I said before, you guys did a great job at clearly telegraphing enemy attack patterns, but some attacks still feel a little bit too fast/unclear. For example, compare polar bears’ snowball throw and claw attack.

Monsters hurting you on touch is one of my biggest problems with the sab.
Most monsters are more dangerous when they are running toward you to attack than when they are actually attacking. The hurt on touch is also very lag sensitive, and tends to throw me off edges.

Did the polar bear’s claw attack even have a wind up or warning? After the first few attempts at fighting one, I gave up ever getting near those things and just bombed them or ran past.

the only thing that ive found to be especially irritating is that if an owl hits you when youre about to jump… you get an “in-combat” jump distance instead of a “normal” jump distance.

as for what youve detailed op, i dont really take issue. maybe thats cuz i expect arbitrary combat quirks out of 8bit games.

I kill Polar Bears by using the Whip to stunlock them. Whip, attack once, whip, attack once etc. You can use the same trick on Bananas, but it’s a lot harder to close the distance since Bananas throw their projectile really quickly and are extremely accurate.