Guild Wars 2

So I understand that this game was made to be care bear friendly… and im totally fine with that… but this QQ really has got to stop…….. this game is hard…. but the fact that you can pay for an item that doesnt give you an advantage ANYWHERE in game is not a pay to win scenario because your not winning anything.

With that rational if they made an endless guantlet ticket that would be pay to win because the content is hard….Why? All you get if you beat the guanttlet is a mini pet and some gold……

Or the rez stones they have are pay to win because they rez you…….

People need to think things through before QQ about stuff.

This is a game, everything you do is optional- by that logic, there is no such thing as a pay to win game ever.

stof.9341:

Kal Spiro.9745:

No, skill and memorization allows you to win. The cash only allows you to keep playing without having to go back and farm more lives. The cash didn’t allow you to win at all.

You work with a definition of P2W that is completely opposite to what I (and most people that talk about that use)

P2W is a shortcut to wining, it’s not the only path. This coin is INCREDIBLY convenient. We do not even begin to touch how convenient it is here. Remember that when you respawn, you only get one life. That when you go out to farm lifes/coins/baubles, you need to restart a zone from the first checkpoint. Hey, you didn’t farm enough lives and you were at the last checkpoint already? Too bad, go back to farm and start again from the zone entrance.

The difference in effort to win between the Payers and the NotPayers is huge, so it is P2W plain and simple.

Raid gear is a necessity to winning a raid. It is generally not possible to get raid gear on your own. If it is possible to circumvent the necessity of finding a group to complete the content necessary to get the gear needed to raid by simply buying it you are paying to win.

Lives are necessary to winning SAB in any mode. It’s incredibly easy, with only a small amount of effort to get a substantial amount of lives without any assistance or anything, just playing the game. Being able to buy a way to get lives easier isn’t paying to win.

I’ll assume you don’t see the difference, but there is a very significant one.

I dont like the attitude of OP but IMO he has some point. Please correct me if I am wrong, but since when pay-to-win is defined as only valid for PvP scenarios? I think P2W can also apply to PvE and the only question is how deep will it go. If you take two players with same skill and one of them will buy gems and buy infinite coin, he will be more successful in completing SAB in tribulation mode. Depending from the skill involved, the guy without the coin might not even finish it in time while the guy with coin will. The definition of “win” is broad. It does not have to apply only to PvP stomping. You may “win” by doing PvE content someone else cant complete. You may “win” by getting more gold, more items, more achievements, more legendaries… whatever floats your boat. SAB coin is not an extreme example (like for example would be an item which would allow you to fly) but it certainly has traits of P2W.

Awe.1096:

I dont like the attitude of OP but IMO he has some point. Please correct me if I am wrong, but since when pay-to-win is defined as only valid for PvP scenarios? I think P2W can also apply to PvE and the only question is how deep will it go. If you take two players with same skill and one of them will buy gems and buy infinite coin, he will be more successful in completing SAB in tribulation mode.

This is only true if you define success as the speed with which they complete tribulation mode.

With the same skill they should both be equally successful at completing tribulation mode, the one with the infinite coin will simply do it faster because he doesn’t have to keep stopping to farm more lives.

Depending from the skill involved, the guy without the coin might not even finish it in time while the guy with coin will. The definition of “win” is broad. It does not have to apply only to PvP stomping. You may “win” by doing PvE content someone else cant complete. You may “win” by getting more gold, more items, more achievements, more legendaries… whatever floats your boat. SAB coin is not an extreme example (like for example would be an item which would allow you to fly) but it certainly has traits of P2W.

The only legitimate definition of winning is success. You can attribute artificial conditions on it, like winning the fastest, with the most points and the most baubles, but ultimately winning is winning regardless of how long it took. If there was some tracker that marked the fastest completion time, somehow, then the coin would be pay to win because now there is a time limit being imposed as a condition of success. Since this isn’t the case the coin isn’t making nor allowing you to win better. It is simply facilitating your ability to continue playing, whether you are even able to win or not.

the coin is P2W, pure and simple. Anyone arguing against that is just blinded by their love for SAB. It really doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. I think it crosses the line into P2W territory, and until they remove it I will discontinue my financial support of the game and only buy gemstore items through in-game gold, end of story.

I may be inclined to side on the convenience side if this wasn’t time limited content and they didn’t nerf to hell all the legitimate ways of getting continue coins. But the fact is the only reasonable way for the average player to win this content is through the use of this gemstore item. That is pure P2W.

Having to add multiple qualifiers onto your definition of P2W to make this item fall into the convenience category is just sad.

The infinite coin is kinda overrated. It’s only necessary for those exploring tribulation mode, which is intended for the true-blooded hardcore noble minority anyway.
It’s easy to beat the normal mode using just continue coins. And they require minimal daily grinding.

Of course if you’re incompetent and finding yourself dying on the same spots and eating up continue coins, it is a question of personal skill, not of the game trying to get you to pay for a convenience item.

The reason I think the infinite coin is kind of pay to win-ish is 1. Whoever uses the infinite continuation coin is going to be able to finish tribulation mode a lot faster than someone who has to farm all those coins. And 2. Anet changed it so the dig spots and reward chests are only once a day. It doesn’t make much sense why they care after they already removed the obsidian shards from moto and everything else he sells is account bound. But this comes back full circle, because now it’s harder to farm bauble bubbles and continuation coins than it was before, it makes it a lot more enticing for the players to turn to the gemstore instead and buy their continuation coins if they want to do tribulation mode a lot.

If anything the nerfs to the dig spots/end chests was more than likely to push people to the gem store.

RyanCid.9270:

RyanCid.9270:

ITT: ppl who never played a REAL p2w game

Dash.7108:

ITT: people who don’t know the difference between pay to win and pay for convenience

Called it

Definition “pay2win” – Access to premium items, increasing stats of the paying player which are unattainable or extremly hard to obtain for the non-paying player. Resulting in an easy win in a PVP-Situation.

SAB = NOT pvp, NO stat advantage – the only thing you have to do without the infinite coin is to run some W1 zones to grind some bubbles if you die extremely often.

I’m gonna keep bumping my post since you guys obviously never dumped 1000+ euro into a game just to keep up with with the top 1% of the ranking.

Beat W2 normal, and W1 z1&2 trib without an infinite coin. Took 78 lives, which required only a small amount of bauble farming in combination with the free coins handed out. Most of those deaths were trib mode.

Infinite coin is a crutch for bad players, and nothing more. Looking forward to more SAB. Does it even need to be mentioned that the coin can be bought without spending a dime? Hard to be pay to win when you can get it through normal game play just as easily. Roughly 3 total hours of champ farming.

Sounds like nothing more than a convenience item to me. We can talk again when they introduce a SAB item in the gem shop that 1 hit K.O.s all of the assassins, or makes you invulnerable/float.

Captain H J Fluffington Jr.9378:

Beat W2 normal, and W1 z1&2 trib without an infinite coin. Took 78 lives, which required only a small amount of bauble farming in combination with the free coins handed out. Most of those deaths were trib mode.

Infinite coin is a crutch for bad players, and nothing more. Looking forward to more SAB. Does it even need to be mentioned that the coin can be bought without spending a dime? Hard to be pay to win when you can get it through normal game play just as easily. Roughly 3 total hours of champ farming.

Sounds like nothing more than a convenience item to me. We can talk again when they introduce a SAB item in the gem shop that 1 hit K.O.s all of the assassins, or makes you invulnerable/float.

I think it cost about 36 gold. And it isn’t for bad players, it’s for average or worse players, also lazy players. You sir are clearly not a representative of that set of people.

Lazy players? Ah. All continues and life farming is for bad players in truth which is the main reason I don’t want those.

Problem is, Tribulation Mode is basically unplayable without doing that.

Wow….every content release these posters show up with some twisted definition of what Pay 2 Win is (and how GW2 is now OFFICIALLY P2W).

Reasons it is not P2W:
1) Content you are “winning” is optional and not required to progress in the actual game.
2) “Paying” in this case gives you no actual gameplay advantage in the actual game itself.
3) Content CAN be completed without PAYING at all (so I’ve read….have no intention of entering SAB at all).

So this is NOT Pay 2 Win….at all.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Wow….every content release these posters show up with some twisted definition of what Pay 2 Win is (and how GW2 is now OFFICIALLY P2W).

Reasons it is not P2W:
1) Content you are “winning” is optional and not required to progress in the actual game.
2) “Paying” in this case gives you no actual gameplay advantage in the actual game itself.
3) Content CAN be completed without PAYING at all (so I’ve read….have no intention of entering SAB at all).

So this is NOT Pay 2 Win….at all.

1) By that definition, playing any game is optional, so no game can ever be P2W.
2) Infinite Continue Coin means : no need to “grind” beforehand continue coins or lives. No need to abandon the instance and lose all checkpoint progress to get more lives/coins if you died more than expected.
3) Pay2Win is bad but would be an all time low if it was just plain impossible to win without paying. That becomes more Pay to Play at this point :p

Brother Grimm.5176:

Wow….every content release these posters show up with some twisted definition of what Pay 2 Win is (and how GW2 is now OFFICIALLY P2W).

Reasons it is not P2W:
1) Content you are “winning” is optional and not required to progress in the actual game.
2) “Paying” in this case gives you no actual gameplay advantage in the actual game itself.
3) Content CAN be completed without PAYING at all (so I’ve read….have no intention of entering SAB at all).

So this is NOT Pay 2 Win….at all.

The game is optional in its entirety- so by your twisted definition of what p2w is, there’s absolutely no such thing as p2w since all games are completely optional.

Also- almost all games called ‘p2w’ can be completed without paying anything too- they simply give you items you’d likely have taken hours of grinding to obtain normally. Unless you’re implying that if say, in WoW you could buy the best arena or raid gear for real money that wouldn’t be p2w since you can also earn it over weeks/months of raiding/pvp- after all, you can still earn it.

Also- doesn’t have a stat bonus so it isn’t p2w/doesn’t help you complete the game so it’s not p2w. These are both flawed- one, GW2 isn’t about stats, so by your logic they could sell virtually anything and it could never be considered p2w for you- in which case Anet has found their perfect audience for sucking up your cash. Two, what is completing the game exactly? This is an mmo, and it seems most people consider achievements to be GW2’s endgame since there isn’t progression dungeons, and fractals are for a niche crowd- almost everyone though is invested in achievements.

And since SAB is full of achievement points, and is the content for this month- the infinite coin is essentially giving players who buy it infinite life/checkpoint use without having to farm excessively for it.

That’s extremely pay to win.

stof.9341:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Wow….every content release these posters show up with some twisted definition of what Pay 2 Win is (and how GW2 is now OFFICIALLY P2W).

Reasons it is not P2W:
1) Content you are “winning” is optional and not required to progress in the actual game.
2) “Paying” in this case gives you no actual gameplay advantage in the actual game itself.
3) Content CAN be completed without PAYING at all (so I’ve read….have no intention of entering SAB at all).

So this is NOT Pay 2 Win….at all.

1) By that definition, playing any game is optional, so no game can ever be P2W.
2) Infinite Continue Coin means : no need to “grind” beforehand continue coins or lives. No need to abandon the instance and lose all checkpoint progress to get more lives/coins if you died more than expected.
3) Pay2Win is bad but would be an all time low if it was just plain impossible to win without paying. That becomes more Pay to Play at this point :p

2 sounds like a convenience buy to me, which is what the gem shop is suppose to be. Seems to be fitting into their stated intent. Either way, 3 hours of champ farming should cover most of the cost of the coin anyway. . So, you’re basically buying 3 hours worth of time and little more. We aren’t talking about an item that can’t be acquired without paying, and we certainly aren’t talking about an item that takes a small eternity to acquire through the game (giving more of an illusion of being able to get the item realistically without paying.)

Most of all, you get nothing of real value with your purchase of the coin. Last I checked, the tribulation mode skins were all bound so there’s no profit to be made from running tribulation mode. It’s basically the same as complaining about Transmutation stones being pay to win. In the end it’s all about a few personal item skins, cosmetics certainly aren’t advantageous unless being a kitten somehow translates into extra damage or health. The day they put in a legitimate pay 2 win item, I’ll be right here kittening with you, but today just isn’t that day.

With that said, I’ll leave this thread to you gentlemen to continue bickering about as it pleases you. Good luck with the rest of your SAB time.

I love it how people are always complaining: “Uggh, GW2 has no true challenging endgame!”, and now when something actually difficult turns up, everyone is complaining thakittens too difficult. I mean, jeez, make up your mind, do you want it to be difficult or not?

Xaphen.8670:

I love it how people are always complaining: “Uggh, GW2 has no true challenging endgame!”, and now when something actually difficult turns up, everyone is complaining thakittens too difficult. I mean, jeez, make up your mind, do you want it to be difficult or not?

When Difficult is Fun

In my opinion is P2W Skins and Achievements, wich are the “High end things of the game”. While in other games you pay for better weapons here you pay for better skins. The problem is thakittens almost imposible to get one of those skins without paying, so, as the high end content takes a price, and the high end content are skins, is a P2W.

RyanCid.9270:

RyanCid.9270:

RyanCid.9270:

ITT: ppl who never played a REAL p2w game

Dash.7108:

ITT: people who don’t know the difference between pay to win and pay for convenience

Called it

Definition “pay2win” – Access to premium items, increasing stats of the paying player which are unattainable or extremly hard to obtain for the non-paying player. Resulting in an easy win in a PVP-Situation.

SAB = NOT pvp, NO stat advantage – the only thing you have to do without the infinite coin is to run some W1 zones to grind some bubbles if you die extremely often.

I’m gonna keep bumping my post since you guys obviously never dumped 1000+ euro into a game just to keep up with with the top 1% of the ranking.

—Your definition of P2W is not only Not the Only One, but it’s not even on the Top of Google’s List as Most Cached Answer for the search term: define: pay to win
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win
However, this is ^
and here’s the answer:
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

So…
Yes, by world-wide definition, the Coin is p2w.
Also, there is a current thread on the difficulty of W2 closely being followed by It’s Dev/Creator Josh Foreman that you can follow here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/sab-bts/Is-it-too-hard/first

And see the reasoning behind Player Thought of why it’s a p2w item, as well as what that truly means to the rest of you.

For those of you who believe Players who are ‘too lazy’- you should read Josh’s posts as well as watch the videos in the feedback. You’ve obviously not actually encountered ‘Piranha Rapids’.

Happy Day!

tovadaun.6304:

RyanCid.9270:

RyanCid.9270:

RyanCid.9270:

ITT: ppl who never played a REAL p2w game

Dash.7108:

ITT: people who don’t know the difference between pay to win and pay for convenience

Called it

Definition “pay2win” – Access to premium items, increasing stats of the paying player which are unattainable or extremly hard to obtain for the non-paying player. Resulting in an easy win in a PVP-Situation.

SAB = NOT pvp, NO stat advantage – the only thing you have to do without the infinite coin is to run some W1 zones to grind some bubbles if you die extremely often.

I’m gonna keep bumping my post since you guys obviously never dumped 1000+ euro into a game just to keep up with with the top 1% of the ranking.

—Your definition of P2W is not only Not the Only One, but it’s not even on the Top of Google’s List as Most Cached Answer for the search term: define: pay to win
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win
However, this is ^
and here’s the answer:
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

So…
Yes, by world-wide definition, the Coin is p2w.
Also, there is a current thread on the difficulty of W2 closely being followed by It’s Dev/Creator Josh Foreman that you can follow here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/sab-bts/Is-it-too-hard/first

And see the reasoning behind Player Thought of why it’s a p2w item, as well as what that truly means to the rest of you.

For those of you who believe Players who are ‘too lazy’- you should read Josh’s posts as well as watch the videos in the feedback. You’ve obviously not actually encountered ‘Piranha Rapids’.

Happy Day!

tovadaun.6304:

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

We have people clearing W2 and Tribulation on W1 without paying for the coin. Your move.

Yeah, the moment that the coin also not only grants immunity to things in-game making it easier, but the SAB gives rewards that will make money, this will be considered P2W. Buying minis is more pay to win, but no one QQ’s about that.

My theory is you’re just upset you can’t complete the tribulation mode /and/ can’t afford a coin.

sab is optional content.

you dun win anything.

It’s not P2W per se, but it’s very close to “Freemium”.

@Deimos Tel Arin

Which part(s) of the game are considered “mandatory”?

What the hell are you even talking about? Pay 2 Win? It is a side event, it has absolutly no impact in the game, you get no advantages for completing it only then satisfaction and maybe some cosmetics.
And the W1 is pretty enjoyable and you can pretty easily get 5 coins per run.
Stop crying for god’s sake, the W2 is completly hard and I hate what they did, but this no way is pay 2 win.

Mif.3471:

It’s not P2W per se, but it’s very close to “Freemium”.

That would be pay to win. -_-

I’m assuming you’ve never played a real pay 2 win game if you think this is pay 2 win.

Come back when Anet releases weapons in the gem store that have superior stats to ascended.

The issue is more that they redesigned the game to make it significantly more difficult to function without a great deal of continue coins.

Imagine if when they introduced the infinite gathering tools at the same time they changed it so that gathering had a chance to fail but still consumed a tool, reduced the size of the tool stacks, increased the cost of the tools, etc. It’d appear sketchy for good reason. This is no different.

Had they left bauble farming the way it was, kept starting lives at 5, and had Trib Mode not consume lives, then I doubt anyone would have an issue with the Infinite Continue Coin. Unfortunately, everything points to them very deliberately making a hard sell for this item (whether intentional or not).

Doomdesire.9365:

I’m assuming you’ve never played a real pay 2 win game if you think this is pay 2 win.

Come back when Anet releases weapons in the gem store that have superior stats to ascended.

Unlike you, most people here don’t play terrible games, sorry that you’ve been playing p2w games.

Course, if GW2 keeps up with p2w crap, then most people here won’t be here anymore. People hate p2w- and Anet cranked up the difficulty of SAB2 at the same time they nerfed your lives and ability to farm lives, and then put out the continue coin- that’s not just offering a p2w item, but it’s also changing the actual game itself to make that p2w item more valuable than it normally would have been.

It’s a convenience item. You can show your support to ANet by purchasing it, or by farming the gold in game and buying it that way. You can always wait for more detailed guides on how to do Tribulation Mode and use your own Continue Coins if you still do not want to buy it.

Radio Isotope.3045:

Even world 2 zone 2 on infantile mode is way too hard for majority of people “who end up running out of continue coins (pay for this kitten kitten Infinite Continue Coin to keep playing)”.

Infantile mode way to hard for the majority of people? It lets you skip every single hard thing about zone 2, it gives it absolutely no challenge. The only thing able to kill you are assassins that die in two hits – that is not too hard.

Furthermore, baubles are easy to gather all around the zones, making continue coins easy to buy. It is also possible to gather a collection of continue coins from jumping puzzle chests, so you can go in there with enough lives to last you. There is no way anyone has to buy the infinite coin – it is a choice, you can not have it and still finish the zones.

Sawnic.6795:

Mif.3471:

It’s not P2W per se, but it’s very close to “Freemium”.

Yeah, the moment that the coin also not only grants immunity to things in-game making it easier, but the SAB gives rewards that will make money, this will be considered P2W. Buying minis is more pay to win, but no one QQ’s about that.

That would be pay to win. -_-

Uhh…no it’s not. First of all, there’s an entry cost to get into the game. Second, access to anything crucial game wise has not been forbidden to non-gem store users. The gem store only offers quality of life and cosmetic goods that do not affect or alter the core gameplay in which it would give a massive advantage over another player who does not use it.

The Infinite Token is a convenience item at that, but it doesn’t bar the non-Infinite Token player from doing Tribulation. Players have already discovered they don’t need the token. Not to mention the rewards for doing Tribulation are account bound and that the skins you can sell are available from each daily boss chest you can do quite fine without the Infinite Token.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/sab-bts/Infinite-Coin-is-NOT-Required

“Pay2Win” was coined, by the player community, as a game where they offered paying players an advantage (usually massive in terms of stats/attack power) over free players. Buying minis gives you NO advantage whatsoever over another player other than cosmetic showing off. The Infinite Token gives you ease of replayability, but is in no way a direct, superior advantage over another player. Especially, when you can spend the same time Champion/Dungeon multi-path farming, which is FAR more lucrative instead of suffering in SAB like everyone says they are.

I suggest you take a serious look at Nexon if you think cosmetic and convenience goods are Pay2Win. Some of their games are straight up Pay2Gamble2Win. Gambling for a RNG possibility to get a weapon to the next tier, which is already absurdly low, and even then you might not even get the stats you wanted. Each try is usually a dollar, with players spending upwards of 300 dollars A DAY and not even getting above the first tier. And non-paying players left in the dust damage wise to their far superior paying players. GW2 has none of this, it’s easy to gear and the jump from exotic to ascended is miniscule to what you see in a real Pay2Win game.

Younha.3170:

Sawnic.6795:

Mif.3471:

It’s not P2W per se, but it’s very close to "Freemium".

Yeah, the moment that the coin also not only grants immunity to things in-game making it easier, but the SAB gives rewards that will make money, this will be considered P2W. Buying minis is more pay to win, but no one QQ’s about that.

That would be pay to win. -_-

Uhh...no it’s not. First of all, there’s an entry cost to get into the game. Second, access to anything crucial game wise has not been forbidden to non-gem store users. The gem store only offers quality of life and cosmetic goods that do not affect or alter the core gameplay in which it would give a massive advantage over another player who does not use it.

The Infinite Token is a convenience item at that, but it doesn’t bar the non-Infinite Token player from doing Tribulation. Players have already discovered they don’t need the token. Not to mention the rewards for doing Tribulation are account bound and that the skins you can sell are available from each daily boss chest you can do quite fine without the Infinite Token.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/sab-bts/Infinite-Coin-is-NOT-Required

"Pay2Win" was coined, by the player community, as a game where they offered paying players an advantage (usually massive in terms of stats/attack power) over free players. Buying minis gives you NO advantage whatsoever over another player other than cosmetic showing off. The Infinite Token gives you ease of replayability, but is in no way a direct, superior advantage over another player. Especially, when you can spend the same time Champion/Dungeon multi-path farming, which is FAR more lucrative instead of suffering in SAB like everyone says they are.

I suggest you take a serious look at Nexon if you think cosmetic and convenience goods are Pay2Win. Some of their games are straight up Pay2Gamble2Win. Gambling for a RNG possibility to get a weapon to the next tier, which is already absurdly low, and even then you might not even get the stats you wanted. Each try is usually a dollar, with players spending upwards of 300 dollars A DAY and not even getting above the first tier. And non-paying players left in the dust damage wise to their far superior paying players. GW2 has none of this, it’s easy to gear and the jump from exotic to ascended is miniscule to what you see in a real Pay2Win game.

I’m not even sure what you’re talking about.

I said the coin is not pay to win, and that the minis are more pay to win that the coin is. I didn’t say the mini’s were. You read what I said and twisted it to fit your essay.

You also mangled two of my posts together in a quote, both of which were addressing two different points. My second quote basically said freemium is another word for pay to win.

Sawnic.6795:

I’m not even sure what you’re talking about.

I said the coin is not pay to win, and that the minis are more pay to win that the coin is. I didn’t say the mini’s were. You read what I said and twisted it to fit your essay.

You also mangled two of my posts together in a quote, both of which were addressing two different points. My second quote basically said freemium is another word for pay to win.

Then, my sincere apologies for misinterpreting your posts. I’ll leave it there however, for others to see unless you want me to edit it to be not directed at you.

Slide it anyway you want, compare it to any game you want.

On it’s own merits this is a dangerous direction for GW2.

When the gauntlet comes back you can only get tickets through heavily gated daily account bound events OR buy an infinite continue coin. THIS is the real possibility now.

Some people minimise the impact of the continue coin in this thread without understanding the implications of it for the future of GW2.

Younha.3170:

Sawnic.6795:

I’m not even sure what you’re talking about.

I said the coin is not pay to win, and that the minis are more pay to win that the coin is. I didn’t say the mini’s were. You read what I said and twisted it to fit your essay.

You also mangled two of my posts together in a quote, both of which were addressing two different points. My second quote basically said freemium is another word for pay to win.

Then, my sincere apologies for misinterpreting your posts. I’ll leave it there however, for others to see unless you want me to edit it to be not directed at you.

It’s k. Accidents happen :3

Younha.3170:

“Pay2Win” was coined, by the player community, as a game where they offered paying players an advantage (usually massive in terms of stats/attack power) over free players.

Seeing as how SAB has no stats, and we’re talking about P2W in regards to SAB, stats are irrelevant. P2W as you say, is offering players who buy with real money an advantage over players who don’t pay with real money.

A player who buys the Infinite Coin has an advantage over those who don’t: ease of mind (not having to worry about farming) and what content they choose to play. Yes, you can go spend a ton of time farming champs for the coin drops, but then you’re not in SAB are you? Also, the coin buying player can then pick and choose what content he wishes to play, without having to worry about being locked out of content because he failed to farm enough.

So, if we define P2W has giving paying players an advantage over non-paying players, then the Infinite Coin is absolutely P2W. Just because its not as obvious as offering super weapon stats on the BLTC just means its a sneakier and more subtle tactic at a cash grab.

Kaleban.9834:

Younha.3170:

“Pay2Win” was coined, by the player community, as a game where they offered paying players an advantage (usually massive in terms of stats/attack power) over free players.

Seeing as how SAB has no stats, and we’re talking about P2W in regards to SAB, stats are irrelevant. P2W as you say, is offering players who buy with real money an advantage over players who don’t pay with real money.

A player who buys the Infinite Coin has an advantage over those who don’t: ease of mind (not having to worry about farming) and what content they choose to play. Yes, you can go spend a ton of time farming champs for the coin drops, but then you’re not in SAB are you? Also, the coin buying player can then pick and choose what content he wishes to play, without having to worry about being locked out of content because he failed to farm enough.

So, if we define P2W has giving paying players an advantage over non-paying players, then the Infinite Coin is absolutely P2W. Just because its not as obvious as offering super weapon stats on the BLTC just means its a sneakier and more subtle tactic at a cash grab.

“The gem store only offers quality of life and cosmetic goods that do not affect or alter the core gameplay in which it would give a massive advantage over another player who does not use it.” I would rather define P2W when it involves core gameplay, not something extraneous that doesn’t relate to the core of game and has no adverse effects where it matters, SPVP, PvE Dungeons, WvW, and the market in this particular game. Where a massive P2W advantage would skew over player skill, we don’t see that yet and hopefully won’t. If by your definition of P2W, all the player is winning is a cosmetic showoff skin, which I can deal with since there are many.

The worry of not having to farm is a convenience. Much like Transmutation Stones are a convenience. Now, if the Infinite Token was the only possible way to get into SAB, I would be worried. Not to mention that it is possible that even players with the Infinite Token may possibly be stuck in Tribulation World 1, Zone 1 for the entire month due to the skill requirement like Liadri. It’s not a direct ticket to winning, it’s a convenience and an optional one at that. I will attempt Tribulation without an Infinite Token because I don’t feel like investing in something that’s a seasonal convenience.

Arenanet and NCsoft are here to make money, that’s no secret. But they haven’t done anything massively alarming to me yet which is why I continue to play and support GW2. I imagine once the guides for Tribulation are out, more and more players will get through it without a need for an Infinite Token.

Sawnic.6795:

Buying minis is more pay to win, but no one QQ’s about that.

That’s not P2W, mini’s are a cosmetic feature. The infinite coin DIRECTLY impacts on how you play the game.

The argument being does the heavily gated account bound activities around baubles/continue coins prevent people from playing SAB and achieving in it compared to those that buy the infinite coin.

SoPP.7034:

Sawnic.6795:

Buying minis is more pay to win, but no one QQ’s about that.

That’s not P2W, mini’s are a cosmetic feature. The infinite coin DIRECTLY impacts on how you play the game.

The argument being does the heavily gated account bound activities around baubles/continue coins prevent people from playing SAB and achieving in it compared to those that buy the infinite coin.

Directly impacts the game…in order to get more cosmetic skins. All you’re winning in the end is a cosmetic skin. There’s six boss chests, if I remember correctly, that are currently available. Each one gives you two plus the one each for the two bonus rounds, 50 for the your pick in the next blue weapon set. I’ve finished SAB World 1 and 2 twice now for 28 Bauble Bubbles. Every four days for a skin and 1g isn’t that bad especially once you get used to the runs.

I think the backlash and outcry towards this is only this bad because of the high skill cap. There was similar outcry with Liadri, that just didn’t have a Infinite Token available. It’s still entirely doable without the Infinite Token. Once people figure it out and the guides pop up, it’ll be much easier.

Edit: Even with the Infinite Token, it’s still possibly for the skill requirement for Tribulation being too much for a player and not resulting in any special skins. And someone from my friend’s list has just gotten World 1 Tribulation farm down with using only 5-7 continue tokens. And I’m seeing more threads pop up saying the Infinite Token isn’t necessary.

fungihoujo.8476:

Doomdesire.9365:

I’m assuming you’ve never played a real pay 2 win game if you think this is pay 2 win.

Come back when Anet releases weapons in the gem store that have superior stats to ascended.

Unlike you, most people here don’t play terrible games, sorry that you’ve been playing p2w games.

Course, if GW2 keeps up with p2w crap, then most people here won’t be here anymore. People hate p2w- and Anet cranked up the difficulty of SAB2 at the same time they nerfed your lives and ability to farm lives, and then put out the continue coin- that’s not just offering a p2w item, but it’s also changing the actual game itself to make that p2w item more valuable than it normally would have been.

I like how you completely ignore my argument that this isn’t P2W and retort with a insult that only shows how little you know about real P2W games and how childish you are. This isn’t pay to win. Convenience =/= pay to win. You aren’t winning anything by paying. Get over it. Not to mention that you don’t need real money to get it. In fact the gold can be farmed quite easily.

P.S. Just because you played a P2W game doesn’t mean you like it and play them all the time. It’s like arguing what prison is to a guy who has been in prison and knows more about it than you. Think before you post or you’ll make yourself look unintelligent.

SoPP.7034:

Sawnic.6795:

Buying minis is more pay to win, but no one QQ’s about that.

That’s not P2W, mini’s are a cosmetic feature. The infinite coin DIRECTLY impacts on how you play the game.

The argument being does the heavily gated account bound activities around baubles/continue coins prevent people from playing SAB and achieving in it compared to those that buy the infinite coin.

I was saying the minis are more pay to win than the coin is. Not that they /are/ pay to win.

P2W, really? This is a serious topic? If you don’t play SAB at all you are in no way at a disadvantage in this game than if you do play SAB, so how is being able to conveniently continue in your game within the game a play to win scenario.

Personally I don’t mess with SAB. I think it is a cool idea, and other enjoy it so great. As for me, I got enough the first time and am frankly glad for this content so I can get back to do other things rather than just living story. That said, I will not be at a disadvantage to other players in the game to somebody else who does SAB all day every day until the end. P2W, I don’t think you really know what that means.

Younha.3170:

Directly impacts the game…in order to get more cosmetic skins.

Cosmetic skins are the end result, you still have to play the game irrespective of what’s at the end of it.

SoPP.7034:

Younha.3170:

Directly impacts the game…in order to get more cosmetic skins.

Cosmetic skins are the end result, you still have to play the game irrespective of what’s at the end of it.

And that’s all you’re taking away from all these posts? A seasonal, convenience good that’s slightly better than what’s been offered in the gemstore thus far. The same argument could be made for any of the harvesting tools, but all these convenience goods are marginal in what they offer as a straight, coined P2W advantage.

If you’re so worried about them heading in a dangerous direction which I assume is towards real P2W. Straight advantages over non-paying players, not harvesting tools, not transmutation stones, not convenience goods; just pure straight stats upgrades or weapons. When and if they even start introducing that in any way shape or form, I will worry or quit, but it hasn’t even happened yet. There’s nothing wrong with time gating with how they’ve done it so far, we’re all here for the long haul, we’re going to craft/obtain w/e it may be eventually.

tenavis.8942:

@Deimos Tel Arin

Which part(s) of the game are considered “mandatory”?

the level 1 personal story quest. i think.

that one must be completed first before can go anywhere else, right?

can one access the heart of the mist or WvW before completing the first personal story quest?

Younha.3170:

And that’s all you’re taking away from all these posts?

You seem to be missing the point of these posts.

By all means argue the extremes, that is real P2W is some for of stat boost unachievable by any other mean than through the gemstore. It’s extreme because ANet won’t ever do it, they’ve stated clearly they won’t do it.

However, that doesn’t mean they won’t push the boundaries of it. The infinite coin is seen by some as an example of such.

Our responsibility as consumers is to remind them of our concerns. ANet aren’t insensitive to that and they will see people have raised questions regarding this.

P2W doesn’t have to be breached per say, one is allowed to raise concerns before it becomes an irretrievable issue, and one simply quits, as you said yourself.

i say vote with your wallets! errr i mean gems. or in game gold.

dun like an gem store item? dun buy it!

Two things:

a) I’ve been pretty bitter about this entire thing, but (taking his comments at face-value), it seems clear that Josh Foreman didn’t design the content with the ICC in mind.

b) Yes, the ICC is P2W. It gives you a massive boost to earning AP that others won’t have access to, meaning you can can AP rewards faster – improvements to your account-wide MF, gold gain, XP gain, etc. The infinite tools are NOT P2W, they’re a convenience item — the only benefit to owning them is that you save maybe a minute running back to town, and an infinitesimal amount of silver compared to the value of resources.