Guild Wars 2

Josh Foreman.8250:

This is as designed. Dungeons are designed for up to 5 people. If you choose to solo a dungeon you should expect this sort of thing. At leas that’s how I look at it. Maybe because SAB doesn’t look like a dungeon there are different expectations? We did clearly communicate when you enter a world that 5 are recommended.

it’s hard to find a group of 5 people that have enough money to buy infinite coin or did enough farming last SAB to have bunch of coins. With how hard it is, people will just quit midway due to no more coin.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Draygo.9473:

My problems all stem from attempting it solo. Fighting assassins solo is a grinding experience. When I’m grouped up with guildies we can often kill them quickly, but when your fighting 2-3 of them alone its really hard to avoid taking damage.

It ends up being frustrating and tedious. With a group its much easier to deal with the assassin mobs.

This is as designed. Dungeons are designed for up to 5 people. If you choose to solo a dungeon you should expect this sort of thing. At leas that’s how I look at it. Maybe because SAB doesn’t look like a dungeon there are different expectations? We did clearly communicate when you enter a world that 5 are recommended.

People in the SAB are telling others to solo it and not group – I’ve found out this is a BAD idea. The group mechanics in this are a hundred times more forgiving – kinda like when you’d pass off the controller to your friend to get you past a bad part since checkpoints apply to everyone and as long as someone is alive in the instance, you can pop back in. Nice mechanic there.

Aerlen.5326:

People in the SAB are telling others to solo it and not group – I’ve found out this is a BAD idea. The group mechanics in this are a hundred times more forgiving – kinda like when you’d pass off the controller to your friend to get you past a bad part since checkpoints apply to everyone and as long as someone is alive in the instance, you can pop back in. Nice mechanic there.

… Except all need to reach the said checkpoint to activate it and you can’t really “pass off the controller” for the difficult parts.

Maybe they updated it though, but back in April when SAB 1 was there, all 5 needed to reach the checkpoint.

NickChabby.8907:

Aerlen.5326:

People in the SAB are telling others to solo it and not group – I’ve found out this is a BAD idea. The group mechanics in this are a hundred times more forgiving – kinda like when you’d pass off the controller to your friend to get you past a bad part since checkpoints apply to everyone and as long as someone is alive in the instance, you can pop back in. Nice mechanic there.

… Except all need to reach the said checkpoint to activate it and you can’t really “pass off the controller” for the difficult parts.

Maybe they updated it though, but back in April when SAB 1 was there, all 5 needed to reach the checkpoint.

Hmn… while I was grouped in Normal Mode, I got a yellow message if someone reached a checkpoint before me telling me I’d spawn there if I died. I did die once before reaching a checkpoint and was able to hit the keys with the group because I spawned right on it where they were waiting. I’m not sure if this works in World 2 though…

Aerlen.5326:

Josh Foreman.8250:

Draygo.9473:

My problems all stem from attempting it solo. Fighting assassins solo is a grinding experience. When I’m grouped up with guildies we can often kill them quickly, but when your fighting 2-3 of them alone its really hard to avoid taking damage.

It ends up being frustrating and tedious. With a group its much easier to deal with the assassin mobs.

This is as designed. Dungeons are designed for up to 5 people. If you choose to solo a dungeon you should expect this sort of thing. At leas that’s how I look at it. Maybe because SAB doesn’t look like a dungeon there are different expectations? We did clearly communicate when you enter a world that 5 are recommended.

People in the SAB are telling others to solo it and not group – I’ve found out this is a BAD idea. The group mechanics in this are a hundred times more forgiving – kinda like when you’d pass off the controller to your friend to get you past a bad part since checkpoints apply to everyone and as long as someone is alive in the instance, you can pop back in. Nice mechanic there.

I’ve been offering this advice because in all honesty this was true in W1 for me. I can’t speak for everyone but I can speak for the few dozen people I consistently play this game with and that seems to be the consensus. None of the mobs were complicated to take out solo, and the frog’s HP was scaled so that you only had to hit him with the chipped ruby 3 times to get him to go down. And with the checkpoint system, solo you just moved on when you got there.

Apparently this is bad advice for W2 however lol. I’ve finished solo W2, but haven’t tried grouping it yet. Perhaps for some of the later achievements I’ll give grouping a go.

Sorin.4310:

Aerlen.5326:

Josh Foreman.8250:

Draygo.9473:

My problems all stem from attempting it solo. Fighting assassins solo is a grinding experience. When I’m grouped up with guildies we can often kill them quickly, but when your fighting 2-3 of them alone its really hard to avoid taking damage.

It ends up being frustrating and tedious. With a group its much easier to deal with the assassin mobs.

This is as designed. Dungeons are designed for up to 5 people. If you choose to solo a dungeon you should expect this sort of thing. At leas that’s how I look at it. Maybe because SAB doesn’t look like a dungeon there are different expectations? We did clearly communicate when you enter a world that 5 are recommended.

People in the SAB are telling others to solo it and not group – I’ve found out this is a BAD idea. The group mechanics in this are a hundred times more forgiving – kinda like when you’d pass off the controller to your friend to get you past a bad part since checkpoints apply to everyone and as long as someone is alive in the instance, you can pop back in. Nice mechanic there.

I’ve been offering this advice because in all honesty this was true in W1 for me. I can’t speak for everyone but I can speak for the few dozen people I consistently play this game with and that seems to be the consensus. None of the mobs were complicated to take out solo, and the frog’s HP was scaled so that you only had to hit him with the chipped ruby 3 times to get him to go down. And with the checkpoint system, solo you just moved on when you got there.

Apparently this is bad advice for W2 however lol. I’ve finished solo W2, but haven’t tried grouping it yet. Perhaps for some of the later achievements I’ll give grouping a go.

Might be worth a test to see if the checkpoint mechanic I saw is only a w1 normal mode thing. I recall guildies also saying that only one player had to reach the checkpoint for it to count as the new spawning spot.

Aerlen.5326:

Hmn… while I was grouped in Normal Mode, I got a yellow message if someone reached a checkpoint before me telling me I’d spawn there if I died. I did die once before reaching a checkpoint and was able to hit the keys with the group because I spawned right on it where they were waiting. I’m not sure if this works in World 2 though…

Oh, yeah, perhaps, but needing to die/sacrifice a life to reach the others during a challenging part isn’t very “helpful” for less skilled players. It’s counterproductive and you don’t end learning anything.
Note also that lives become very important in World 2, so avoiding sacrifice (except if you bought infinite coin) would be a good thing.

Like you said, normally you could just pass the gamepad to somebody else to complete it for you, it wouldn’t require you to sacrifice yourself to skip a part. There is no proper way to help other players in jumping puzzles and this is an important issue in something like the SAB.

Like I said in an earlier post, if only we could climb on someone’s back, we could not only study the path he takes, but less skilled players could go through challenging paths more easily without much loss AND more experienced ones could physically help others. It’s a win win scenario.

Please don’t water down the SAB just because an extremely vocal group of people don’t like it. I love the grueling difficulty of it and have been having more fun in GW2 than I have in a long time. One of my favorite things about the Living Story events is that they don’t have to cater to every player since they come and go so fast. Not every living story event is for every player. I personally play every single one that involves a jumping puzzle, but I don’t really do much with the dungeons. It doesn’t bother me that the dungeons don’t cater to my specific tastes because 1, I enjoy the base game a lot, and 2, I know that there’s always more content right around the corner.

If you don’t like the SAB, just don’t play it. If you feel World 2 is too hard for you, just play World 1. Games are supposed to get harder as you go along, and the SAB should be no exception. I had a ton of trouble with World 2, but by the time I got through it, I had gotten really good at it. That feeling of mastery is so much more rewarding for gamers like me than any item or title – although those are nice too. (Please make a title for Tribulation Mode.)

The main thing I’m trying to say here though is please don’t make the SAB any less difficult. I honestly hope that World 3 is more challenging than World 2 too.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Draygo.9473:

My problems all stem from attempting it solo. Fighting assassins solo is a grinding experience. When I’m grouped up with guildies we can often kill them quickly, but when your fighting 2-3 of them alone its really hard to avoid taking damage.

It ends up being frustrating and tedious. With a group its much easier to deal with the assassin mobs.

This is as designed. Dungeons are designed for up to 5 people. If you choose to solo a dungeon you should expect this sort of thing. At leas that’s how I look at it. Maybe because SAB doesn’t look like a dungeon there are different expectations? We did clearly communicate when you enter a world that 5 are recommended.

I have to admit I am disheartned that it isn’t made be solo even though we can try running it solo anyways. I actually thought it was meant to be solo since it bascially trying to recreate a lot of old single player games.

Running it with two people I think would be ok but with more then that it sours the concept of the world for me cause having more people takes away the vinatge feel and just makes it look like a weird dungeon rather then a retro return to the past.

Hello
Tonight I finally did world 2 zone 3 and I thought giving some feedback on this zone as well might be useful.

It’s LONG. Way too long. Took us around two hours and a half and we lost a guildmate near the end. He was just tired and couldn’t stand more jumping. The other 3 of us tho, are highlanders, we did it and took a ton of screens to prove it, getting to the end felt awesome
To me it was nowhere as frustrating as zone 1 was and better than zone 2 too, even if I liked that one. I only used 5 continue coins, that’s definitely a step forward. The baubles tho were still scarce, we often refrained from exploring and sometimes even left behind a bauble because it was on a tricky spot, it didn’t feel worth risking a life to get it.
One thing that got me irritated was the unintended backtracking after a fall. Sometimes you fall down, you’re happy you’re still alive and then you realize you’re back to the very beginning. At first, after one checkpoint, I tried to run back every time, but then I decided it was wiser to listen to the little lemming inside me and I started jumping down to my death.
I really wish there was a way to come back to our last checkpoint at will, without having to sacrifice a life. It could work just like waypoints do, maybe at the cost of a bauble. Will you think about that if it’s doable?
The only other thing I didn’t like about zone 3 was the artificial difficulty of some jumps. There’s a closed cavern where you have to do a lot of jumps and some were really cheap. Two jumps in particular (I’m sorry I didn’t think about taking screens, looked for a video but couldn’t find any so I tried to recreate it and added a couple images, hoping it’s clearer this way.). On one, you HAD TO stand on thin air to do it, and not just slightly, it was a matter of guessing how far over the rock you could go, the answer was totally out and then a little more. The other one seemed like an impossible jump until I realized you had to jump on a tiiiiny little, little and very inclined slope just in front of you in order to make it possible. The issue here is it was so tiny and inclined the game still showed me as standing on the rock I was formerly, except that I was not and that bit of height made all the difference.
Now, I don’t fully understand the difficulties you’re facing with GW2 engine but there’s no reason why I should be put in a situation like that EVER. If the engine can’t do it, don’t fill the zone with steps so little that I can’t tell whether I’m standing on them or not and if I need to go further away to make a jump, please provide me space to do so, trying and failing repeatedly until you realize you need to walk over the rock just doesn’t feel right.
As a final note, I’m still firmly convinced two hours and a half for a run without secrets is worth way more than just 3 bauble baubles and a single coin :S
And the whole world 2 on normal mode is worth a thousand scarlet invasions but only rewarder me with 10 achievement points, disappointing.
If I voice my disappointment on the lack of achievement in this thread will it be heard? Or I need to go somewhere else where the right person can see it?

I know I wrote a lot but these are just little issues in the big picture and aside for them zone 3 was awesome, I really enjoyed the time spent in there
I’m afraid of what you may come up with for world 3 and 4 tho :p

Johabi.4275:

Please don’t water down the SAB just because an extremely vocal group of people don’t like it. I love the grueling difficulty of it and have been having more fun in GW2 than I have in a long time. One of my favorite things about the Living Story events is that they don’t have to cater to every player since they come and go so fast. Not every living story event is for every player. I personally play every single one that involves a jumping puzzle, but I don’t really do much with the dungeons. It doesn’t bother me that the dungeons don’t cater to my specific tastes because 1, I enjoy the base game a lot, and 2, I know that there’s always more content right around the corner.

If you don’t like the SAB, just don’t play it. If you feel World 2 is too hard for you, just play World 1. Games are supposed to get harder as you go along, and the SAB should be no exception. I had a ton of trouble with World 2, but by the time I got through it, I had gotten really good at it. That feeling of mastery is so much more rewarding for gamers like me than any item or title – although those are nice too. (Please make a title for Tribulation Mode.)

The main thing I’m trying to say here though is please don’t make the SAB any less difficult. I honestly hope that World 3 is more challenging than World 2 too.

There’s a hard mode for people who want punishing difficulty. This thread has NOTHING to do with it. Your punishing difficulty is perfectly safe.

We’re requesting fixes to Normal, which should be Normal.

NickChabby.8907:

Aerlen.5326:

Hmn… while I was grouped in Normal Mode, I got a yellow message if someone reached a checkpoint before me telling me I’d spawn there if I died. I did die once before reaching a checkpoint and was able to hit the keys with the group because I spawned right on it where they were waiting. I’m not sure if this works in World 2 though…

Oh, yeah, perhaps, but needing to die/sacrifice a life to reach the others during a challenging part isn’t very “helpful” for less skilled players. It’s counterproductive and you don’t end learning anything.
Note also that lives become very important in World 2, so avoiding sacrifice (except if you bought infinite coin) would be a good thing.

Like you said, normally you could just pass the gamepad to somebody else to complete it for you, it wouldn’t require you to sacrifice yourself to skip a part. There is no proper way to help other players in jumping puzzles and this is an important issue in something like the SAB.

Like I said in an earlier post, if only we could climb on someone’s back, we could not only study the path he takes, but less skilled players could go through challenging paths more easily without much loss AND more experienced ones could physically help others. It’s a win win scenario.

Ala New Super Mario World’s feature? If you failed a level too many times, you had the option of the game actually taking over and showing you how to do it then asking you if you wanted to try yourself. It’s a neat concept but I don’t think it could have been implemented here Closest thing you can get is a guide. I had a great one for 1-1 and 1-2 and I actually made the jumps! Still, it was nice to know that if I failed, I could be “carried” by skipping ahead. Took the pressure off, made it fun but challenging.

I’m not at w2 yet (and I likely won’t be. 1-3 is giving me vertigo and migraines, even in baby mode) so I can’t say how important lives are.

I hate how infinite coin is looking better and better :c

RvLeshrac.2673:

Johabi.4275:

Please don’t water down the SAB just because an extremely vocal group of people don’t like it. I love the grueling difficulty of it and have been having more fun in GW2 than I have in a long time. One of my favorite things about the Living Story events is that they don’t have to cater to every player since they come and go so fast. Not every living story event is for every player. I personally play every single one that involves a jumping puzzle, but I don’t really do much with the dungeons. It doesn’t bother me that the dungeons don’t cater to my specific tastes because 1, I enjoy the base game a lot, and 2, I know that there’s always more content right around the corner.

If you don’t like the SAB, just don’t play it. If you feel World 2 is too hard for you, just play World 1. Games are supposed to get harder as you go along, and the SAB should be no exception. I had a ton of trouble with World 2, but by the time I got through it, I had gotten really good at it. That feeling of mastery is so much more rewarding for gamers like me than any item or title – although those are nice too. (Please make a title for Tribulation Mode.)

The main thing I’m trying to say here though is please don’t make the SAB any less difficult. I honestly hope that World 3 is more challenging than World 2 too.

There’s a hard mode for people who want punishing difficulty. This thread has NOTHING to do with it. Your punishing difficulty is perfectly safe.

We’re requesting fixes to Normal, which should be Normal.

^^^^

In fact, I will defend TM until I’m blue in the face. This is about Normal being buggy and in need of fixes, no one wants to nerf TM!

It’s really great to get so much direct Dev response. I am once again looking forward to new SAB content.

That said, I still would like to hear more about the decision to reward much fewer Baubles in World 2 than in World 1.

First, Josh, I’d like to thank you for your calmness… And your responsiveness. And I’m very happy to hear that the current difficultness of world 2 wasn’t intended that way. Looking foward to the changes (I’m one of those that doesn’t have a lot of time to play each day, added to the fact that I am still kitten ed I can’t get all the skins this time round, because somebody at ANet decided to make those chests a daily account one, instead of a daily character one, but that’s for another thread, though it cannot be stressed enough that this fact will cause people to farm levels 1 and 2 of world 1 over and over and over and over and yes, I did put this all in one sentence on purpose, that’s how kitten ed I am over that, because I want to enjoy world 2 and not having to do world 1 over and over to even get a shot at at least 3 weapon skins!) takes breath

Josh Foreman.8250:

Thedenofsin.7340:

I’m really curious if SAB was thoroughly tested with a Norn or big Charr. In fact, I think it would make sense to exclude Asura during the testing process. SAB is significantly easier when run through using an Asura.

Sadly that is the case with all jumping puzzles. Our QA embed plays as the largest fattest Norn possible with the crazy giant shoulder spikes. Generally when I test my JPs I rotate between all the races, and near the end I usually play as a giant Charr.

I love doing this on my Asura. As a matter of fact, she’s done nothing but SAB (being lvl2, she’s not been outside Rata Sum and only actually done the Box…)

But doing this on a Charr is even better. I love the tail when you’re on a stool, jumping up and down!

And to end it, I also want to thank you for even coming up with this thing, even though it’s apparently stretching the MMO engine. Because of SAB, I’m even willing to try your other monster this halloween again. SAB did give me some confidence in jumping…

Looking forward to the changes to world 2!

Now that I’ve had a chance to try world 2 I have to admit that it’s too much of a leap from world 1.

The rapids were annoying, a tad long but quite ok all in all.

However, zone 2 is so long. And you have to do it slowly too. The assassins are such a pain to kill and at the parts past the gong, where you have to pick a teleport route they just constantly kicked me off the platform before my screen changed to the new area.

Zone 3, well I wasn’t able to finish it yesterday because it just kept going on and on and on. Every time I thought, yes here comes the boss, there was another tedious slip and slide part. After over an hour I just got so motion sick that I gave up in the blizzard.

I really enjoy the concepts of the worlds, thematic they are so much more interesting than world 1. But they really are too hard and too long for a second world.

CommodoreSkippy.2657:

It’s really great to get so much direct Dev response. I am once again looking forward to new SAB content.

That said, I still would like to hear more about the decision to reward much fewer Baubles in World 2 than in World 1.

I’m glad Josh is responding (even if his earlier responses were terribad). I’m not holding my breath, but it at least SOUNDS like he cares as much about these issues as the rest of us, as hard a time as we’re giving him. There are plenty of devs and designers who would just say everything is as-designed.

Hopefully, whomever is responsible for rewards and itemization will respond, eventually. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an itemization response that wasn’t really just “deal with it,” though.

(Ha. And while I type this, Josh responds to the question of fewer bubbles.)

RvLeshrac.2673:

I’m glad Josh is responding (even if his earlier responses were terribad). I’m not holding my breath, but it at least SOUNDS like he cares as much about these issues as the rest of us, as hard a time as we’re giving him. There are plenty of devs and designers who would just say everything is as-designed.

Those would be bad devs and designers then. Because a good developer or designer doesn’t make it for him or herself, but because they like to know that the people who use their products likes to use their products. There’s nothing worse as a developer to know that something you made isn’t used because people don’t like to use it. It hurts your professional pride.

Hopefully, whomever is responsible for rewards and itemization will respond, eventually. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an itemization response that wasn’t really just “deal with it,” though.

True. I’d really love to hear the real reason for that.

Josh Foreman.8250:

CommodoreSkippy.2657:

Rather than decreasing the Baubles earned, increasing the prices would have been a better solution. Yes, it’s artificial, but it’s about the FEEL of earning more.

I think you’re right about this and I’m going to see what I can do.

Wow, that was fast! I posted, logged on to play the SAB , Alt+Tab’d out during a load screen, and what do I find but a direct response.

This kind of back and forth over the forums, and quickly, is really encouraging and makes me glad I play GW2. You’ve caught a lot of flak in this thread, some even from me, so I wanted to point out how grateful I am that you’ve been taking the time to listen to the players so intently and respond genuinely rather than with generic diplomatic answers.
Thanks, Josh.

Just want to say that so far I have loved world 2 and tribulation mode, but there are parts that I can see being not fun fun for those who don’t enjoy difficulty spike. Namely the gong run in 2-2. I thought of a couple things that might make it a bit smoother (sorry if they’ve already been mentioned). For one, putting a check point at the top of the tower instead of the bottom. The climb to the top is difficult the first time, and just plain tedious after that. Putting the checkpoint at the top would allow people to quickly retry the gong run without the frustration of stepping slightly too far on the climb for the 5th time in a row. Second, you might consider slowing the speed of the gong. As it is right now, its pretty tricky to switch from one side to the other before the gong gets too far. I think that would make a huge difference in the difficulty. I haven’t made it to 2-2 trib mode yet, but as it currently is, the gong run FELT like tribulation. I personally enjoy the difficulty, but I know many others don’t!

Overall, great job on the SAB, can’t wait to see more of it!

Perhaps instead of insisting on 3 zones per world, you break up your ideas into 4 or 5 zones? In future, at least.

I enjoyed most of World 2 (and zone 3 was refreshingly fun compared to some of the frustrating stuff in zone 2, including a bug where the second scale refused to be weighed down all the way), but it would be nice if zone 2 wasn’t zone 2, but instead zone 2 and zone 3, and zone 3 was zone 4.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Epicrandom.5817:

Hey Josh, I’ve been following this thread for quite a while and I thought you might like some feedback.

Thanks for the quality feedback. I agree with most of what you say. One problem I’m realizing now is that when I first built 2-2 it was not a long level. I never changed the layout, but as we had more and more ideas for new mechanics they kept getting packed into that space. (and subsequently meant a bunch of 36 hour days for me and Lisa!) I’ve now come up with the ultimate idea: The Anti-Idea Helmet. (Please don’t steal this idea, I want to patent it.) It’s a helmet that the each member of the SAB team is given. Like a construction helmet, but it’s got brain reading electrodes or what-have-you that can sense when you start to get creative. At that point a spring loaded mallet pivots down from its mount on the top/front of the helmet, smacking you in the forehead, discouraging new ideas. With this invention I can guarantee that the next release for SAB will be shorter, less dense, and have fewer new mechanics. (and the subsequent bugs that accompany them)

Lol, I would so get one of those helmets xD. If only i was as creative as you.

raahk.2786:

Siphaed.9235:

My biggest complain of difficulty:

- Where’s the sword?

Sure, we originally get the Pointy Stick in W1-Z1, but how come it hasn’t upgraded yet? The torch has an upgrade, the shovel has an upgrade, but the stick is still a stick? Why? Especially when it comes to the bears -polar and forest- as well as bananas, hillbillies, and raccoon mafia. Those things just laughing at the player’s Pointy Stick.

(Oh, and if there is a stick upgrade that I’m completely overlooking, please point it out and ignore this post).

There’s a hidden shop in world 2-2, all I’m gonna say.

Could you say a bit more? Like, at least how many baubles it costs so when I do find it I don’t waste my time?

Josh, about the rapids part. What I don’t like much is how random it feels between when you managed to jump again or when the rapids decide to chain knockdown you 4 times in a row. I think you should take a clue from old games and give us enough invulnerability frames after such a knockdown that say, we can stand around for just 1s in the water just to be sure we get some control before the next push. Same when we get knocked down into water by a monster.

It was part of the fun in Megaman to get hit and be allowed to walk a couple frames on instant death spikes thanks to the invulnerability frames :p

For the long levels, they are a bit too long, even ignoring all the different mechanics in them. I’d say Zone 1 could basically be about half the size. Right after the raft ride would be a fine separation. Zone 2 could be split as well. Right after the poison dart puzzle would probably be fine.

While there is a lot going on in each of the new zones, there’s also just a lot really difficult jumps. Now, those jumps existed in World 1 too, but it was mostly for the unique achievements and finding secrets. They weren’t required to progress. In World 2, it feels like I’m constantly being asked to make many jumps that are either timed (geysers/clouds), require a full length jump (which can be easy to cut short), or have to navigate midair around an object to reach the platform. That combined with missed falls equaling death leads to a lot of added frustration, especially when the rest of the world has some difficult battles as well.

I’m not saying World 1 didn’t have instant death jumps either, but they were a bit more sparse. Usually a fall meant loss time or hearts. Zone 3 had all the poison water, but that still only knocked off a little health. It was a little more forgiving anyway.

Edit: Now, I really don’t want to say “Make it all shorter.” Because in some ways, I do kind of like it. But it does mean that if I get mid-way through a zone in World 2 and then have to take off, or I lose all my continues, it’s just a little depressing knowing I’ll have to start back over from the beginning rather than my last checkpoint.

i just did a first run of world 2 zone 1.
infantile mode.

gets a bit hard at the end.

maybe i am just tired.

world 2 zone 1 is very much longer than world 1 zone 1 also.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Lafiel.9372:

The biggest fail of this SAB is that it’s too long.

Lesson learned. I get it.

Lafiel.9372:

I guess the first one was successful because it was new, innovative and they wanted to get it right. Now when they made the second one, they’re just throw in a bigger team, a bigger budget and demand lengthier contents and say yup, that’s what players want. Like the say, the sequels are always crap until the next fresh reboot.

Smaller team, actually. And the length was my own desire to get as many ideas as I could in there. I spent several months pulling 16 hour days and a couple weeks where I did a couple 36 hour stretches, went home, slept and came back and did it again. No one else wanted me to do that. In fact those sort of crazy hours are discouraged at ArenaNet. I did that because I freeking love what I do and wanted this release to be the best thing ever. Turns out I pushed too hard to get those new mechanics in there and I’m being told here over and over that all that work was wasted and it’s making people miserable. I’ve learned my lesson. Won’t happen again! And for that, my family thanks you!

Aww jeez Josh. You made me log into the forums after being off of them for months. I’m going to college currently to make games, and let me tell you. This month’s patch for SAB was NOT bad. It just needs some tweaking, that’s all. I really love the vertical nature of world 2-2, and I love the dojos, I love the idea of the rapids and jumping and danger, and I love the frost and ice of the snowy level. It’s all very old school, and reminds me of Super Mario 64 and my childhood. This was all designed great, it’s just the numbers that need to be tweaked, and the fact that the infinite coin was released at this time just made people upset about it being unfair etc etc. Cmon man, be proud of what you’ve made, everything has issues and bugs, you make games, you should know that! But even so, this is something that you need to take in pride.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Smaller team, actually. And the length was my own desire to get as many ideas as I could in there. I spent several months pulling 16 hour days and a couple weeks where I did a couple 36 hour stretches, went home, slept and came back and did it again. No one else wanted me to do that. In fact those sort of crazy hours are discouraged at ArenaNet. I did that because I freeking love what I do and wanted this release to be the best thing ever. Turns out I pushed too hard to get those new mechanics in there and I’m being told here over and over that all that work was wasted and it’s making people miserable. I’ve learned my lesson. Won’t happen again! And for that, my family thanks you!

Well you shouldn’t feel bad about it. In fact, it shows in the game how passionate you and your team are about it. But at some point it hits the “Too much, Darling. Too much.”-mark

Josh Foreman.8250:

Lafiel.9372:

The biggest fail of this SAB is that it’s too long.

Lesson learned. I get it.

Lafiel.9372:

I guess the first one was successful because it was new, innovative and they wanted to get it right. Now when they made the second one, they’re just throw in a bigger team, a bigger budget and demand lengthier contents and say yup, that’s what players want. Like the say, the sequels are always crap until the next fresh reboot.

Smaller team, actually. And the length was my own desire to get as many ideas as I could in there. I spent several months pulling 16 hour days and a couple weeks where I did a couple 36 hour stretches, went home, slept and came back and did it again. No one else wanted me to do that. In fact those sort of crazy hours are discouraged at ArenaNet. I did that because I freeking love what I do and wanted this release to be the best thing ever. Turns out I pushed too hard to get those new mechanics in there and I’m being told here over and over that all that work was wasted and it’s making people miserable. I’ve learned my lesson. Won’t happen again! And for that, my family thanks you!

I learned a long time ago that the longer you work at a stretch, the worse your work gets!

Especially if you’re designing or writing code, doing it for 8 hours + solid is just a recipe for disaster. Moreso if you’re trying to one-up your previous work.

For what it’s worth, I think your responses here have made most of us feel better about the content. I think now we’re arguing more among ourselves about what’s wrong than at you.

(I guess it would also help if everyone would read your responses in the thread before posting, but that’s a pipe dream!)

[Also, maybe this should spark a discussion at ANet about how careless item placement in a cash shop can have a massive negative effect on our perception of the content and the designers. Myself included, a lot of us had a knee-jerk reaction to the Infinite coin, thinking the content was designed by you explicitly with the goal of selling more of them. Since you’ve made it pretty clear that wasn’t the case, sorry about that.]

Josh Foreman.8250:

Lafiel.9372:

The biggest fail of this SAB is that it’s too long.

Lesson learned. I get it.

Don’t take it the wrong way Josh, the length is absolutely great. It’s not a fail at all. I think what that poster fails to clarify is that the length in itself isn’t a problem, but how they are organized. If Zone 2 was split into, say, 3 zones, there’d be absolutely no complaints about length at all.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Smaller team, actually. And the length was my own desire to get as many ideas as I could in there. I spent several months pulling 16 hour days and a couple weeks where I did a couple 36 hour stretches, went home, slept and came back and did it again. No one else wanted me to do that. In fact those sort of crazy hours are discouraged at ArenaNet. I did that because I freeking love what I do and wanted this release to be the best thing ever. Turns out I pushed too hard to get those new mechanics in there and I’m being told here over and over that all that work was wasted and it’s making people miserable. I’ve learned my lesson. Won’t happen again! And for that, my family thanks you!

Now see, this is sad to read. I hate that anyone could spend so much time and put so much effort into something they love, only to be shrieked at by everyone and feel like it was “a waste”.

SAB is something special and forget anyone who can’t see it’s something that you’ve been absolutely dedicated to. W2 definitely needs some tweaks, but that’s all it is. Tweaks. Tweak it a bit, and it’ll be fun again, and we’ll all have a good time.

I’m sure MORE work is not what you were looking forward to, but it’s all that stands between this release and perfection.

As for everyone having a meltdown… maybe we should all relax for a little while, and go back to having fun after the tweaky-patch hits.

Actually I love this release a lot more than the last one. There is just so much cool new stuff in it, and its just a lot more challenging than the last one which is great.

And just playing through all of the huge new zones, it really hits home that this game is really not like any MMO I have ever played before. What other game can put out such huge old school mini game like this? Even in infantile mode it is really a sight to behold going through world 2.

You should be proud of what you have done, just don’t kill yourself doing it. 16 hour days, ugh.

Josh Foreman.8250:

words…
..I’m being told here over and over that all that work was wasted and it’s making people miserable. I’ve learned my lesson. Won’t happen again! And for that, my family thanks you!

None of the work you put in has gone to waste.

You overdid it and yes there are people, including me, who got overwhelmed to say the least. But there are also people who enjoy the content.

Now take a long vacation. After such a workload you both need and deserve it.

It didn’t go to waste, though I think you learned a lesson in pacing.

Don’t worry, for every hour you put into this we are probably going to play it, and then some.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Hm. Let me specify, lest I be accused of whining. I meant all the EXTRA hours I poured in was wasted. I just put in too much stuff. I’m not crying here. I’m learning a lesson.

I wouldn’t say it was completely wasted, there are still those of us who enjoy it as it currently is! We just aren’t as vocal because we spend most of our time playing it instead of typing about it. In fact, I wouldn’t be typing this right now if I were at home and able to play!

Josh Foreman.8250:

Hm. Let me specify, lest I be accused of whining. I meant all the EXTRA hours I poured in was wasted. I just put in too much stuff. I’m not crying here. I’m learning a lesson.

Ah, the lure of new ideas…. I know it only too well. This is fun, let’s add that. And that’s fun, let’s add that too! And by the time it’s done, it’s actually too big for its britches….

And don’t worry Josh, we still love SAB!

Josh Foreman.8250:

RvLeshrac.2673:

And then a dev claiming that the people complaining about the magical offset attack hitboxes are just crying when they meet the smallest amount of resistance, before finally buckling under the deluge and admitting that, yes, there are issues that need some work.

That seems like an odd interpretation of this:

Josh Foreman.8250:

You may be right. I think it’s too early to tell. Some number of people hit a little resistance and quit and come to complain about it. And some number hit that same resistance and are inspired to overcome it and they are in the game right now doing that. I don’t have a good sense of those numbers are right now. I’m more than happy to adjust it when I have better data to work from. Thanks for your feedback.

Or were you referring to something else I said?

Josh, you were not offensive at all, and never outright dismissed claims of difficulty. The people who claim you are either is utterly lacking in reading comprehension or are just incredibly defensive/sensitive and sees personal attacks between every sentence.

I think that SAB world 2- onwards is definately harder for a casual jumper than world 1. And before you say, of course it is! No NES game had a difficulty curve THAT high. Even Battletoads waited until level 3 (Turbo Tunnel) before ramping up the difficulty.

I actually had a tough time doing world 2 even with infantile mode with all the soldiers attacking me. Maybe it’s a learn to play – issue, but for me, it wasn’t as fun as World 1, where enemies weren’t as hard and the main focus was jumping around and finding new paths. I see Josh has commented on the length already too. But for me it simply wasn’t as fun as SAB world 1, for these reasons (and I can’t lie, also because they nerfed the dig spots).

Josh Foreman.8250:

CommodoreSkippy.2657:

As far the owls that litter the World, do they need to be infinitely spawning? They aren’t difficult, just annoying. The owls add no additional challenge, they only serve to make the game less rewarding.

The owls are not what they seem.

I hate it when people are mysterious, trying to intrigue me.
And succeed.

Uuuuugh, just spent 2 and a half hours soloing W1Z2 trib mode, cursing the name “Josh Foreman” (in a good way ;P), and when I finally finish the boss, I’m feeling really accomplished and happy, so I start hopping around the map while the timer runs out. Then, with 3 seconds left, I remember some posts mentioning that you have to be standing next to the chest to get the achievement. I was too far, of course, and it was too late, so no achievement for me.

I had a raging fun time, but that was a huge disappointment sharply cutting my glee short. I don’t know if this is intended to prevent some kind of exploit, or if it can be changed/fixed, but that definitely sucks. Not a fun way to end the night and go to bed. My pillow will soak up many a tear tonight.

I’ll probably end up running the zone again (and much faster this time), but it would be really nice for people doing trib mode to not miss the achievement just because they didn’t stay next to the chest at the end.

Ursan.7846:

Josh Foreman.8250:

RvLeshrac.2673:

And then a dev claiming that the people complaining about the magical offset attack hitboxes are just crying when they meet the smallest amount of resistance, before finally buckling under the deluge and admitting that, yes, there are issues that need some work.

That seems like an odd interpretation of this:

Josh Foreman.8250:

You may be right. I think it’s too early to tell. Some number of people hit a little resistance and quit and come to complain about it. And some number hit that same resistance and are inspired to overcome it and they are in the game right now doing that. I don’t have a good sense of those numbers are right now. I’m more than happy to adjust it when I have better data to work from. Thanks for your feedback.

Or were you referring to something else I said?

Josh, you were not offensive at all, and never outright dismissed claims of difficulty. The people who claim you are either is utterly lacking in reading comprehension or are just incredibly defensive/sensitive and sees personal attacks between every sentence.

Alternately, you could read the later posts.