Guild Wars 2

Josh Foreman.8250:

MagnusLL.8473:

Congrats on designing one of the most blatantly obvious (but still devious) money grabs I’ve ever seen implemented in an MMO cash shop.

Cranking the difficulty all the way up to “insane” for world 2 NORMAL mode, implementing an hard mode based on trial and error, reducing lives from 5 to 1, brutally reducing the amount of baubles with which you used to be able to buy continue coins, AND introducing the infinite continue coin which can only be purchased from the shop.

I’m assuming you already have the “real” world 2 normal mode ready to go live as soon as the bean counters think they’ve gotten enough money off all of this.

You’re brilliant, Josh. In a different way from what most of the people here are meaning it, but still brilliant

That’s not how things work here. I don’t tell the commerce team how to do their job and they don’t tell me how to do my job. …

I don’t see anything about why you reduced the amount of baubles.

I finished z2 and z3 last night, was pretty fun and frustrating, good stuff.

I have a question for all of you… Why do you say z2 is so long, but doesn’t say that for z3? Z3 is way way way way way waaaaaaaaaay longer, atleast that was my perception.

I already had done z2 halfway through before but had to leave, but z2 can be pretty fast (and I’m not talking about eagle), totally doable in less than an hour.

Now when I think of z3, Jesus, that took me 3 hours, it was my first time, but I don’t see myself getting it done in less than an hour.
Maybe till the end of the month I’ll eat my words and do it, but it’s such a huge map I don’t see it.
Each time I thought it was going to end, it just would continue non-stop, z2 felt like that tons of times too, but z3 was so much worst in my eyes, in that aspect.
Z3 has some really nice puzzles and was pretty fun, less death traps, more getting puzzly puzzles and some really annoying things, but A LOT longer to do in one sitting.

Z1 is completely fine, not very long if you already did it once.
Z2 with eagle is super fast.

Vizier.3164:

Maybe add a suicide button on F1 key?

I did get stuck once by something that knocked me into a pit. And I had 2 guildies complaining about getting stuck in a wall. Since there are no waypoints, re logging kinda hurts.
A suicide button would solve all those problems. Don’t put it on the flute tho. Its kinda hard to play the flute if your perma knocked down cause of the water, or 2 or 3 rocks knocking you back in between them for a minute >.<

I second this suggestion. My cousin and I got stuck at various points due to the push blocks or the light up step stones pushing us into walls. While I was able to get out via death by dug up bunnies, he couldn’t get any to spawn, so he had to relog.

I’ve also gotten my head stuck in a rainbow in infantile mode.

Loving it. Last night I finished world 2 zone 1 and 2 with a friend. It took us a long time and we did not even want to explore, but just finish everything. Can’t wait to go back and explore those huge and amazing levels again.

A few notes: In the last SAB Infantile mode was quite a bit easier than normal mode and you would be able to obtain most of the achievements in it. I still haven’t had the chance to try it, so is that not the case this time?

The only problem I have had so far would be with the rushing rapids. In particular the area before the huge crocodile-log-waterfall checkpoint and the one previous to it. That segment was incredibly glitchy, with instances where I would be standing on a rock and then suddenly get flung out in the rapids or jumping from one rock to another and somehow ending on a third entirely different one.

I admit I still have not tried most of the achievements like collect all the baubles one and after seeing w2z2 it is going to be hell. If it is too much for my nabby self, I guess there are other achievements I can do or other content I can play.

Not everything in this game can be Shatterer or Old Tequatl.

If you really want those achievements but will have to grind for them and hate it, then don’t. 150-200 achievement points for stress and rage is not worth it. Unless you’re the kind of masochist that enjoys this kind of insanity. Then buy the infinite coin and laugh every time you die in some silly way (rapids D=), since 80-90% of the time it doesn’t really matter. Preferably with 1-2 other friends who also have it for the added bonus of laughing at their silliness.

I think people would be less frustrated with the hard areas if it didn’t kill you instantly.

World 1, there were literally no auto-death falls. The worst was falling into green goo and your life slowing going down. From the get-go of World 1, you’re thrown into rapids that will auto-kill you. It’s not forgiving whatsoever for mistakes, and since mistakes cost baubles to buy life coins, it’s frustrating.

W2, Z1 and Z2 and TM W1,Z1 and Z2 completed already.

My concerns are probably more technical issues than design complaints.

- Slingshot is really painful to aim.
At some point on W2-Z2 thre was an assassin standing on top of a lonely mountain.
I tried to kill him with the slingshot but it was impossible to correctly aim at him. I’m sure there’s a spot where you can reach him, I just didn’t try it too much since I wasn’t really looking for the achievement on my first run, but the way the weapon works is still frustrating.

- Rapids, Lava pools, …
When you want to jump over some pit, your character hitbox is so large that you can actually get out of the platform in order to maximize the distance.
Everything is quite different, however, when you face a rapid, a lava pool, or any other dangerous surface. If the height of the platform you’re standing on is not high enough, the effects of the dangerous surface seem to trigger much more close to the edge.
It’s not bad at all, but having similar jumps behaving completely different feels a little bit uncomfortable and usually ends up in some frustating deaths.

About the loss of lives.
W2, Z1 cost me about 30 lives on my first run. I probably spent a lot more, about 60 or so, completing Z2, but I already had bought the Infinite Continue Coin at this point and here is where I feel a bit biased.
The amount of lives / continues needed in order to complete normal mode is OK. I’m fine with rerunning W1 and farm some baubles in order to buy some lives / continue coins or unlock upgrades, and the amounts required seem completely manageable for me (the proposed change of losing only one heart when you die by traps or fallings is great however).
Tribulation Mode is a completely different kind of beast. I used more than 200 lives in order to complete W1, Z1 and this is hardly something you can easily go back and refill. I bought the Infinite Coin just for TM, which in enjoy but I think it would be really painful without it.
Having infinite lives feels far from good however when you go back to normal mode. Your pace of play speeds up a lot, taking a lot of risks and suffering many deaths that you probably wouldn’t if your lives would have some kind of cost attached.

I feel it would be MUCH better if Infinite Coin would not exist and you just had infinite lives for Tribulation Mode. I suspect, however, that this is less related to SAB design, which I think is great, and more about other departments doing their job.

Josh Foreman.8250:

No. Can you please describe or screen shot those places? I’d appreciate it.

In world 1 in Tribulation Mode, at the end of zone 2 I think. It’s the store with the secret room to the left of it.

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/gw2-bachelor-of-baubles-super-adventure-box-29_thumb.jpg

As you exit this store, you are immediately spawned into the lava.

A friend of mine also spawned in lava after exiting the store in world 1 part 1, Tribulation Mode. It’s pretty much the first store in the game.

Josh Foreman.8250:

The gong temple has been tweaked so you only have to switch sides once and there’s plenty of time to do so. When you say the darts are going through the blocks are meaning while they move or when they are in place?

When they are in place. This happened at the section where you must cover up countless arrow slits, to reach a trampoline in the center. Some of the blocks, when stationary, would fail to block certain arrow slits. So either the block moved further than it was meant to, or the arrow trap didn’t switch off correctly.

OK wow… I thought I was the only one who thought this was hard… I’m even playing on baby mode and it was hard! The levels are sooo long. I can’t imagine how it is playing on normal mode. I lost 20 lives playing in World 2 haha.

Just keep in mind you design content for absolutly everyone. So tribulation mode can be near impossible, but the default mode should even be achievable for the housewife next door. From my personal experience with w2z1 I think at least one more re-enterable checkpoint would solve a lot of frustation.
As developer you often loose the distance to your own project, so maybe take the worst SAB player of anet and take him/her as a reference?

Josh, I don’t post on the forums often and everything I had to say about the difficulty has been covered by others, but reading your posts, I felt I had to write this:

You are awesome, your ideas are awesome. Please don’t let the criticism get you down, but also please remember your work/life balance!

The truth is, I was one of the people who found normal mode too punishing. It was long, it had a lot of death traps unless you were paying very close attention, and I basically had to stop at the gong because I was too exhausted to continue. This is coming from someone who tried Mad King Clocktower for 5 hours straight before beating it, and I loved that thing (single best and most memorable moment of GW2, no contest, with SAB being the only thing that comes close).

But you know what? I respect your design so much. As someone lucky enough to play lag-free and mostly bug-free, I think I experienced 2-1 and 2-2 as intended. And every time I died, it was my fault because there was always a tell or always another way to do something. SAB taught me to dodge jump. The assassins taught me to kite way better than any windup tell in the main game. The river crossing with moving logs was such a pleasant surprise (I gasped out loud) because it’s been commonly assumed in the community that the GW2 engine couldn’t handle moving platforms, but you proved us wrong in spectacular fashion.

And that gong? That nightmare-inducing gong run that made me give up? I can’t stop talking about it to my friends because when I realized what I had to do, I thought “No way a dev would dare to ask something that crazy and hard from us!”. But you did, and it’s incredible (in a good way) that you did. I don’t think there’s an achievement for following it down all the floors, but I’m going to try it anyway just to see if I can do it. When I have more energy over the weekend, I will probably try. And it’ll be fun.

And even better, the design of the entire box’s reward structure is great. You have scaling difficulty so everyone can experience the content, you have special rewards for people who beat the hardest stuff, and you don’t lock anyone out of the basic rewards just because they can’t beat the hardest stuff.

World 2 may have been a bit too hard, but other than that, it’s so well designed. I just want you to know that even as someone who had a hard time with it, you have my complete and utmost respect as a developer (and I’m normally a bit of a sore loser). SAB is incredibly impressive. I don’t know if it matters for your metrics, but I’m going home tonight and buying all the new SAB gem store content just to show my support even though the infinite coin was the only thing I originally intended to buy.

To make mistakes is to be human. Keep on being an amazing human!

Josh Foreman.8250:

MagnusLL.8473:

Congrats on designing one of the most blatantly obvious (but still devious) money grabs I’ve ever seen implemented in an MMO cash shop.

Cranking the difficulty all the way up to “insane” for world 2 NORMAL mode, implementing an hard mode based on trial and error, reducing lives from 5 to 1, brutally reducing the amount of baubles with which you used to be able to buy continue coins, AND introducing the infinite continue coin which can only be purchased from the shop.

I’m assuming you already have the “real” world 2 normal mode ready to go live as soon as the bean counters think they’ve gotten enough money off all of this.

You’re brilliant, Josh. In a different way from what most of the people here are meaning it, but still brilliant

That’s not how things work here. I don’t tell the commerce team how to do their job and they don’t tell me how to do my job. My goal is to make a really fun and compelling experience for players. Insofar as W2 is not fun right now because of the crazy difficulty, that’s on me because I made some poor judgement calls. I lost the forest for the mechanic-trees. I liked this tree and this tree and this tree and this tree… and jammed them all in without taking the big picture in often enough, especially near the end when everything comes together and starts interacting in unpredictable ways. Last time we were just excited to get 8-bit UI, a bounce mushroom and turtles you could knock over for platforms. Now we have projectile enemies, ice, moving platforms, water spout platforms, spin flowers, push blocks, several cooperative puzzles, etc. Now I know next time to give the elements time to breathe, and go hands-off earlier, and if a last minute fix is required to make a new mechanic work (what happened to the water spouts that ended up making them terribad) it should be cut and saved for next time. These are the reasons World 2 is too hard. If the reason was to sell coins I would not be here and you would not see a huge suite of fixes we put together over the last couple of days come out tomorrow.

As to the Infinite Continue Coin I’ll repeat what I said several pages back. I think it’s a great item because it expands the number of people who can experience SAB. There’s probably a good-sized portion of players who don’t want to play it like a real stand-alone old-school game where you have to really learn the levels, find the secrets, earn the resources to get the power-ups etc. In that way it’s like a Game Genie. It also gives people who are really into SAB a chance to vote with their money and support future development.

We decided to do Tribulation Mode in the platform hell style back before we launched the first SAB. Before the idea of an ICC was ever thought up. It matches our personality and humor. We knew there would be people who were really really good at SAB and would wrack up huge numbers of extra lives, and thought Trib Mode would be a great way to spend them.

As to a ‘real’ World 2, that will have to wait for next release when we have time to make the major renovations necessary to put it in the proper context between Worlds 1 and 3. In the mean time, check out the changes we made and see if it’s more fun for you.

leave it the way it is. challenging content is what this game needs because currently there is none.

i know there are many people who think even the easiest things in gw2 are too hard or ok. many people who still believe arah is too hard when its just as easy as every other dungeon.
but seriously, what about us players who would love to have some really difficult contents and dungeons?
every dungeon in gw2 right now is too easy.

for example lupicus. lupicus is your most difficult boss in the game currently.
look at that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jv3_7SzSgo

…. the most difficult boss dies in less then 20 seconds just by pressing a few buttons and using reflection.

give us a hardmore for the dungeons and a few new permanent dungeons please.

this game has so much potential in pve. the fighting system is so good. i dont understand why you guys dont try to create some really difficult things, like dungeons that you have to try for about 200 times before you finish it successfully for the first time.

please make it happen.

You cry about difficulty in normal mode and to long levels while 5min ago we beat w2-3 tribulation within 1h with 2 ppl (where we had to wait at every checkpoint until both were there, what makes it even longer)… Seems like duration is fine if you know what to do and difficulty even in tribulation mode isn’t that hard… Just stop crying and start trying..

And Josh, please don’t keep in mind that you design content for everyone.. Just don’t.. There is no content for everyone because skill differs between players.. Normal should be beatable for the non-experienced housewife next door? imo no.. Easy mode is made for that..
What is a challenge for many is easy and thus boring for some.. You have to create content for casual and low skill players as well as for hardcore gamers and pros.. And the chances that these groups enjoy the same content are quite slim…

PvE only had a small amount of really hard or challenging stuff to do… The halloween jp, queens gauntlet, high level fractals, etherblade goggles and tribulation mode (most of that wasn’t even hard enough… and I don’t even want to add world 2 normal to that list) and that’s it…

No one can tell me that dungeons or any other content are difficult.. even arah is a joke..
Lupi? Is a joke.. The whole PvE aspect of the game is way to easy and now ppl cry at something that’s medium difficulty because they got everything for free up until now..
The game is out for a year now.. The skill of players should grow with time so the challenge you guys create should become harder and harder over time… All I can say and ask for is… Please keep throwing out hard stuff.. The more the merrier I’ll be!

Josh Foreman.8250:

One thing you have to learn about how our jumping/collision works is that you can’t jump up against things and slide up and over the lip like any normal platformer. You need to start your jump further back. I know this is frustrating and if I had the power to change it I most certainly would. Along with making player’s collision match their body/size, and not hang out over the sides of things. As I’m trying to push the skill of jumping it means I’ve had to bring these wonky issues to the forefront. That’s unfortunate, but in my opinion it’s worth doing for the sake of more interesting jumping challenges.

Whoa whoa, you want to punish people who don’t make the cookie cutter ant sized characters even more than the game already does? No thank you sir! It really bugs me what an advantage being tiny is in this game for WVW, PVE, jump puzzles, and tight spaces in general. I refuse to do it, it started with Aion for me. These tiny characters never used to be a thing, but it’s the norm now, and all the games seem to reward you for being tiny.

cubed.2853:

Just keep in mind you design content for absolutly everyone. So tribulation mode can be near impossible, but the default mode should even be achievable for the housewife next door. From my personal experience with w2z1 I think at least one more re-enterable checkpoint would solve a lot of frustation.
As developer you often loose the distance to your own project, so maybe take the worst SAB player of anet and take him/her as a reference?

I see your point, but your extremes are too aggressive, this isn’t a Facebook game. Also your housewife comment is a bit offensive to women.

Finished all zones and holy god zone 3 was a pain. I actually feel like zone 2 is a cake walk compared to zone 3.

Whoever’s idea it was to put a second boss form is purely evil because once you get the first form down to 25% he pretty much instant kills you because he is too fast to dodge AND attack. So you get a hit, die, respawn, get a hit, die, respawn. Luckily his HP didn’t reset. I was so happy when I beat him and then NOPE jk now its even harder lol.

To be completely honest: difficulty of the worlds I have no problem with. My only problem is that this is WORLD 2!!! WTF! I’ve never seen a game that had that much of an increase on difficulty from World 1 to World 2. I could see this being a World 4 type difficulty, but World 2??? Seriously, it’s like you wanted to give it the difficulty of a final world so you can show us how hard you can really make it compared to the ease of World 1.

I’m honestly scared how difficult Worlds 3 and 4 will be.

Great levels, adequate difficulty, I just feel it is misplaced in World 2. That’s TWO! The SECOND WORLD!! Difficulty ramped up far too quickly IMO, but whatever, I got it done.

I understand why everyone feels it is too difficult, because let’s face it, no one expects the second world to be that hard.

If I were designing it I would have made World 2 half as hard (less insta-kills would do it), made World 3 as hard as World 2 is now, and make World 4 (final level) WTF hard.

My 2cents.

bTomfoolery.2563:

It’s just hard enough, though I think it ramps up too drastically. More levels in between World 1 and 2 that ease into the higher difficulty.

2-1 is something of a level I’d expect like, towards the middle of a platforming game, not the first level of the second world. World 1 has only a few jumps that will kill you if you miss them, most missed jumps even into the poison water are salvageable, just missing a few hearts if it takes you awhile to find solid land.

2-1 is a massive leap in difficulty where missed jumps are generally not salvageable because of the constant knockdowns while in moving water (the instant you gain control and can move again you’re knocked down again) that leads to most missed jumps being essentially deaths, albeit slow agonizing ones. Enemy combat goes from 1-2 hits on things that mostly melee or shoot slow projectiles at you, to 2 bare minimum (toads, white assassins), or 3 (hillbillies, red assassins, bananas) to 5 or 6 (bears, polar bears) in world 2-1, and the enemies often have more complex attacks, that are harder to dodge or you’re in situations where dodging is not feasible (such as the raft or narrow bridges), enemies also have attacks that continuously damage you until you break out of them.

I guess from a design standpoint, I would have expected another world or at least zone between 1 and 2’s difficulty, where more missed jumps are sure deaths but some are salvageable, and for combat, 2 hits on most enemies but 3 hits on some of the harder ones.

Like if I were to suggest it specifically.. world 2-1 could be adjusted to be a better gateway in difficulty. The rapid water could have a limit to how often it knocked you down, giving you maybe 1s between knockdowns (after your standing up animation) would allow you to recover from a lot of missed jumps as long as you didn’t just stand there and take the knockdowns. I’d have set the hillbillies to 2 hits rather than 3, and smokey bears at 3 hits. In 2-2 I’d change one thing, and that is, the first few arrow traps, make them more visible, show arrows stuck in the other side of the doorway on the first one, for instance, or better yet, show a dead body pinned to the wall with arrows. That’ll engage people playing to suspect something deadly and they’ll keep their eyes peeled looking for the traps.

Currently your method of learning what the arrow traps look like and learning to avoid them is trial and error, you walk through the first one and lose a life and think “what? why did I die?”. THAT should be reserved for tribulation mode, or maybe later worlds.

TexRob.5183:

Whoa whoa, you want to punish people who don’t make the cookie cutter ant sized characters even more than the game already does? No thank you sir!

Uhhh SAB normalizes your characters size. I did it just fine with a max size charr and max size Asura (Almost tall as a norn in SAB!), so size difference is no problem.

Anyway, I had great fun in the box. Thanks for making it. I usually don’t log on to the forums, but since you seemed a bit down I figured I’d put in a post about how satisfied I am with it.

The only unfortunate thing is that I play with high latency, which made the lilypads and jumping rocks a bit problematic in TB. But in the end it didn’t really put a dent in my progress and I managed just fine. The rapids weren’t an issue at all.

Again, thanks for making this content.

Screw people Josh. SAB is fine as it is. Is not perfect, I mean, few Buebles around to be honest, but the difficulty is fair.

The problem is people these days: They want everything as easy going as their mediocre lives, accostumed to getting things without any effort. People who are lazy even FOR PLAYING.

They want to have achieve things that are not really achivements. They want to do things their current skills doesn’t allow but don’t want to improve either. They want life to be tuned down to their personal level of comfort.

Screw them man.

Hi. I thought I’d leave you my feedback in here. I realize that it’s too late for tomorrow’s patch, but maybe it’ll be useful for world 3.

I consider myself a good jumper. My favourite puzzle was the mad king’s clock tower. I cursed at it for a good 2 hours before I finally managed to reach the top. Then I kept at it until I was consistent enough to not only get the boots for all of my characters, but also to farm the chest for a while. It was a lot of fun. And I left it a better jumper than I was before. That’s the kind of challenge I look for.

When SAB World 1 was released, it was awesome. It wasn’t much of a challenge, but more of an adventure. Discover a whole new world, relive the nostalgia, explore every nook and cranny. It was good.

Right now, I’ve only played World 2 once. Haven’t gotten any additional achievements or done any systematic exploration yet. So here’s my preliminary take:

Zone 1: Pretty good. The spout-problem has been identified already, otherwise I didn’t have any major problems. Took me a while to get up the buggy sprouts. The frogger-like logs part was fun.
Getting across the last waterfall is really difficult if you don’t spend a minute watching all the patterns, and the backup-path is a problem on your first playthrough since you lack the items to fight in the dark. This part could have been more accessible.
I hated the frog (?) behind the last corner before the spouts though. Two crocidiles, a turtle, then finally a tiny little ledge, and you made that ledge into a death zone. If you can’t whip him fast enough, you’re dead.

Zone 2: Ugh. As said, I consider myself to be a good jumper, but it took me no less than 15 continue coins until I saw the end of it.

• You’re saying that we should watch our surroundings to spot the spike traps before they kill us. Then you go and fill the spike trap rooms with ninjas, frogs and whatnot, so we don’t ever have the time to watch our surroundings. And surround the room with tiny ledges above the infinite void, so that fighting outside is as dangerous as running in and evading the first attack right into the spike trap you couldn’t see. I don’t think that spike traps and combat should be mixed. Ever. When the best tactics are to either rely on luck, or to throw lives at it until you found all the traps by accident, then the challenge isn’t fair.
• It may in part be due to lag, but the hitboxes of the spike traps were all over the place. I have a few screenshots where I’m clearly not near a spike trap, but dead anyway. I know, engine limitations make them buggy, engine limitations make the penalty be death instead of a knockback, engine limitations make the camera useless at times, but the result is still a frustrating experience.
• The gong room? The less said about it the better. Partially because of the buggy spike trap hitboxes. I ended up releasing the gong, killing myself, running back in from the checkpoint and meeting the gong at the bottom.

In conclusion, the whole zone had very few difficult jumping, but lots of spike traps and fighting, and I don’t like it.
If I want enjoyable combat, there’s the world’s best combat system right outside the super adventure box. Hitting stuff with a stick won’t ever be able to live up to that.

(continued in next post due to length restrictions)

Zone 3: Back to the good news, I found most of zone 3 to be really enjoyable. The vertical shaft before the first block-“puzzle”? Exactly what I’m looking for. Difficult but fair jumps with the right amount of tension. Teaches you to get better or get out. Nice.

• The mountain goats? Borderline sadistic with the high penalties that any knockback incurs. But cute.
• The button puzzles? Nice touch.
• The snowstorm section had a nice feeling to it.
• I think you overdid the room with the four (?) large icycles you need to shoot down. Nothing wrong with the large icycles or the jumping or the puzzles, but then you went ahead and placed multiple small icycles right onto the most difficult part of the jumping. Right where the penalty of falling is the largest. Not so nice.
  With timed sections, I think there are two important issues to keep in mind: a) inform the player beforehand that this is a timed section. Like having cloud platforms. Or maybe a smudge on the floor below the icycle locations? b) make sure the player can plan ahead. In this room, the path is very hidden and almost impossible to plan ahead from below. So you jump on top of the last pillar to look around where you need to go, get an icycle to the face, fall down and die. I tried jumping one platform back when I saw the red cross, but either due to lag or due to hitboxes, it still hit me.
  What made it worse was the fact that the checkpoint before that places you in unsafe territory. I was just finished calming down when a goat kicked me down the mountain, wasting another life. Bah.
• The Yeti boss. Maybe I missed the hidden mortar cannon, but I don’t see how you’re supposed to attack and kill him without wasting hearts. There’s no safe place at the top of the mountain, and his health bar is too long for a boss where you’re supposed to climb, hit & run. Whipping doesn’t seem to help. So what’s the secret?
• Wizard, first phase. Nice one. Except for his attack where he charges you three times. Is that avoidable at all? Can’t dodge three times, and I’ve tried pretty much every weapon I had without much success. He said I cannot evade his wrath, but there has to be a way to defeat him without taking damage, right?
• Wizard, second phase. I wish I had known beforehand that I should just evade until the time is right, but meh.. learning experience, right?
  Overall a nice boss, even if my first encounter was a bit painful.

There is one more issued I want to touch. The first one is player expectations. SAB World 1 was an awesome new thing, it was experimental and it was fun because it was different. Not saying it was bad (it wasn’t) but you could have done a lot worse and it’d still have been fun.
For the second release, players expect something more mature, more polished. Still lacking the bauble counters, punishing players for exploring a little more after the chest opened (without warning), having multiple achievements not working at the initial release.. those are things that make SAB look bad. It’s not just a little experimental side project any more, apparently it’s now a recurring living world content.
I know you have all these awesome ideas you really really want to put in the game, but please: there’s more to a good release than ideas. If an idea doesn’t really work out due to technical issues, shelve it. If an idea takes more time than you have, shelve it.

Just to reiterate, for me the most fun part of the release was not the technically difficult frogger section or the block “puzzles”, but a simple, black vertical shaft in 2-3 with tricky jumps. And the most frustrating part was not the fact that you didn’t include references to [favourite childhood game] or that you couldn’t technically include the mario-style cannons with wing-cap or a double jump. It was the fact that I had to do 2-1 twice because it didn’t count the first time, every single lag- or bug-induced death I didn’t deserve, and the fact that apparently I’ll have to find a walkthrough for the 100% baubles again.

Please, for World 3, fix those issues before you go ahead and shoehorn any new ideas into the engine. I know it’s difficult to take an awesome idea out back and shoot it, but sometimes, it has to be done. If world 3 ends up less awesome, but more polished, I think that’d be an improvement.

Let me conclude by thanking you (and your team) for your work on SAB. It’s such a nice concept, I’m looking forward to see what you’re doing next.

Hi Josh, just wanted to give you my feedback from W2 so far.

My biggest biggest BIGGEST issue is the rapids with the waterspouts near the start of W2 zone 1 (the one that ends with the blind jump through the waterfall). I think it may have been due to lag (I live in NZ), but I just simply could NOT complete it!
I even bugged out 2 or 3 times and got stuck in a wall , which meant had to reset from the beginning of W2!!! (sorry for the angry bug report btw…) All in all I must have tried for about an hour to get past those kitten waterspouts (and just those waterspouts). But I just couldn’t do it

Now I managed to complete all of the SAB achievement last time, loved the Mad King’s Clock tower and I just finished W1 Zone 1 Tribulation (which was awesome in it’s insanity), so I’m not a total noob jumper. And to be honest I would say the W1Z1 Tribulation was much easier than those rapids. Yeah I died a lot, but by in large I knew it was my fault when I did.

However, I still don’t know how I’m going to get past those kitten rapids – I can see the path & and understand how I’m supposed to do it, but I get randomly knocked around every time I try.

Oh also, just kill me when I fall into the rapids – I raged so much watching helplessly as my character takes 10sec to die. It was getting to the point where I’d try and steer into mobs so I’d die faster. Just make the rapids instant death and let me get back to playing asap.

Anyway, I ended up running it in Infantile mode just to skip the rapids. And I did my best to do the rest of W2Z1 and W2Z1 normally (ignoring the rainbows). The rest of it was tough, kitten tough in places, but it was enjoyable! The environments were amazing, the difficulty was mostly what I expected, and you did a good job overall of ramping up difficulty.

There were some issues (the Assassin’s are a bit over the top – especially if there’s a few of them in a cramped spot and/or around darts), but by in large it was really fun. I even really liked the darts – you had me creeping along looking around corners and every time I died I was laughing at how dumb I was for missing the trap.

So, please fix the rapids (or do something) so that I can play the rest of it the way it was meant to be played!!

MakubeC.3026:

Screw people Josh. SAB is fine as it is. Is not perfect, I mean, few Buebles around to be honest, but the difficulty is fair.

The problem is people these days: They want everything as easy going as their mediocre lives, accostumed to getting things without any effort. People who are lazy even FOR PLAYING.

They want to have achieve things that are not really achivements. They want to do things their current skills doesn’t allow but don’t want to improve either. They want life to be tuned down to their personal level of comfort.

Screw them man.

Screw the people who play your game? Honestly, this post shows the divide between common sense and entitlement. Keep in mind, the previous levels were accessible to all players. Yes, some had it easier than others, but eventually, everyone could do it.

That’s not to say this isn’t still true, with World 2, but the learning curve even in Infantile Mode, went from casually easy to brutally evil.

Finally, also keep in mind, this thread asks, “Is it too hard?” For some of the players, yes. Very much so for the layman. This isn’t the thread where we show our sycophantic devotion to the person who designed it.

There are issues in World 2. Glaring issues that need to be addressed. Waving the designer’s banner and saying ‘screw the players’ who overwhelmingly state they are having problems isn’t helping.

Again, in my humble opinion, the difficulty isn’t ‘fair’, but unforgiving as far as missteps, bugs, and overall design. Most players have died more in the World 2, Stage 2, than in the entire time they’ve played World 1 much less Guild Wars 2 itself.

That’s a problem.

Sera.6539:

Vizier.3164:

Maybe add a suicide button on F1 key?

I did get stuck once by something that knocked me into a pit. And I had 2 guildies complaining about getting stuck in a wall. Since there are no waypoints, re logging kinda hurts.
A suicide button would solve all those problems. Don’t put it on the flute tho. Its kinda hard to play the flute if your perma knocked down cause of the water, or 2 or 3 rocks knocking you back in between them for a minute >.<

I second this suggestion. My cousin and I got stuck at various points due to the push blocks or the light up step stones pushing us into walls. While I was able to get out via death by dug up bunnies, he couldn’t get any to spawn, so he had to relog.

I’ve also gotten my head stuck in a rainbow in infantile mode.

For people wanting to suicide use the shovel it will summon a rabbit sometimes and it can kill you. I freaked out getting stuck once too but a little thinking got the solution.

HAWTERTHAN.7523:

TexRob.5183:

Whoa whoa, you want to punish people who don’t make the cookie cutter ant sized characters even more than the game already does? No thank you sir!

Uhhh SAB normalizes your characters size. I did it just fine with a max size charr and max size Asura (Almost tall as a norn in SAB!), so size difference is no problem.

Anyway, I had great fun in the box. Thanks for making it. I usually don’t log on to the forums, but since you seemed a bit down I figured I’d put in a post about how satisfied I am with it.

The only unfortunate thing is that I play with high latency, which made the lilypads and jumping rocks a bit problematic in TB. But in the end it didn’t really put a dent in my progress and I managed just fine. The rapids weren’t an issue at all.

Again, thanks for making this content.

I have to disagree. I have watched videos of tiny people on the stones and stumps you have to jump on. My feet hang off every side, meanwhile they fit completely in the center.

I found W2 Z1 doable, barely.
The things I found most annoying were the unpredictable mechanics of the rapids (you can easily get “slurped into them” when it looked like you made a perfect jump), and the spin flowers not actually launching you where your camera is facing.

Oh and the fact that the boss blew me off the edge of a cliff after I defeated him, making me lose the baubles & that precious continue coin (down to 1 now….).

Ardenwolfe.8590:

That’s not to say this isn’t still true, with World 2, but the learning curve even in Infantile Mode, went from casually easy to brutally evil.

Are we playing the same world 2? I have to admit I finished world 2 before playing infantile but I died 0 times at my first playthrough of infantile.. After playing tribulation I don’t intend to play normal yet infantile again except for the achievements because it’s so kitten easy (what makes it to boring)…

As I stated several times before ppl just have to accept that not every content is made for every player.. doing that is just impossible..

Imo infantile should be for people with no experience with plattformers while normal should be for ppl with some experience or ppl that finished infantile and want to put in some lifes and effort.. While tribulation should be for people that played a lot of plattformers and do want to die often as in the good old days where finishing a video game meant you have put in a lot of effort and tried really hard…
I myself even think tribulation mode is too easy and should be even harder…

You just have to accept that the skill gab is quite large and people that have huge problems in normal mode and have to spent more than 10 coins for all 3 zones of world 2 are skill wise on the lower end.. If you make content to easy many people will get bored so there has to be content (and a lot more than there is right now) that is a problem for many players… Since you can get all the achievements in infantile mode it shouldn’t be a problem to just play that.. But maybe some people are feeling bad with only playing “infantile” mode.. Maybe Anet should’ve called infantile normal and normal hard and ppl would be happy…

Also in my experience the lower skilled players are the ones that mainly post on the forums, high skill players just come here to look for news and post rarly.. So don’t overreact to all the stuff posted here, I know a lot of people that are playing SAB and having fun without even knowing this thread even exists.. Almost none of the people I know complained about the difficulty of SAB and most of them finished world 2 tribulation mode up until now..

I tried to read most of this thread and didn’t see anyone talking about the TRAMPOLINES. (sorry if repeat)

This may have nothing to do with normal mode. I’ve run all of W2 on trib mode 3 times now. The only place i have any problems where i feel like i’m fighting with the mechanics of the game and not the actual content is at the trampolines on the poles near the end of zone 2. I notice that even if i’m not moving and just jumping up and down there are times when it starts to glitch out and jump before or after i actually hit the trampoline. This probably has to do with lag. It is the only area in all of sab that i know is going to take me a long time and a lot of deaths just because i have to get lucky with a good bounce to make the insane jumps.

I love SAB to death! Thank you all for your hard work on it, and please make W3 harder

Hinado.6291:

Are we playing the same world 2? I have to admit I finished world 2 before playing infantile but I died 0 times at my first playthrough of infantile.. After playing tribulation I don’t intend to play normal yet infantile again except for the achievements because it’s so kitten easy (what makes it to boring)…

Well, of course it was for you. Do you know why? You played in normal, so you knew the overall patterns, traps, etc. Again, that’s common sense. For those that didn’t, and don’t really desire the challenge, that’s what infantile is for.

I would agree with your opinion about ‘not all content is for all players’ if the previous standard was exactly the opposite. In the first SAB, it was accessible to all players. Yes, all. So, that kind of makes your point moot as far as SAB.

Granted, Queen’s Gauntlet is set for a certain player that wants a deep challenge. But, this? I’m afraid not. Going for World 1 to World 2 was like night and day.

If you believe otherwise, you’re kidding yourself. Players have literally died in World 2 more times than in their entire run in Guild Wars 2 itself.

I know I have.

It’s not fun, it’s frustrating . . . to the point where I’m deciding whether or not overcoming the frustration is worth the attempt at fun.

That’s never a situation you want to place on your players.

As far as skilled players not complaining, and non-skilled ones complaining. Well . . . duh. That’s like saying all the happy people never seem to use customer service because they’re not having any issues. But, the unhappy people use it because they’re having massive issues.

That’s just a silly statement to make.

Playing world 2 level 1 for the bauble and hidden room achievement at the moment and overall it’s quite fun – but having real difficulty with the ascent up the rapids to the hidden hillybilly cave where the last jump on the rapids seems very random. Same positioning, same leap and 95% of the time its just instant death – most frustrating.

A tiny bit more leeway on the rapids jumps looks like it would improve things greatly.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Well, of course it was for you. Do you know why? You played in normal, so you knew the overall patterns, traps, etc. Again, that’s common sense. For those that didn’t, and don’t really desire the challenge, that’s what infantile is for.

Well I played infantile again just now and 90% of the time you can walk over rainbows and skip almost everything.. Didn’t really find a part that I would call hard in infantile.. Could you make any examples please?

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I would agree with your opinion about ‘not all content is for all players’ if the previous standard was exactly the opposite. In the first SAB, it was accessible to all players. Yes, all. So, that kind of makes your point moot as far as SAB.

Granted, Queen’s Gauntlet is set for a certain player that wants a deep challenge. But, this? I’m afraid not. Going for World 1 to World 2 was like night and day.

I find World 1 to be just some kind of tutorial world where mechanics are shown and where’s no real danger.. So imo ramping up difficulty that hard is the right move (world1’s difficulty is a joke in comparison to every plattformer I ever played).. After world1 and world2 5 months have past what should lead to an overall skill increase of the GW2 players. The etherblade JP is just another example of the increasing difficulty of jumping stuff and people who made that shouldn’t have any issues with W2 infantile

Ardenwolfe.8590:

As far as skilled players not complaining, and non-skilled ones complaining. Well . . . duh. That’s like saying all the happy people never seem to use customer service because they’re not having any issues. But, the unhappy people use it because they’re having massive issues.

I don’t meant complaining I talked about posting at the forum at all. And with that I just wanted to make clear that ANET shouldn’t overreact because of this thread because there are a lot of people that are absolutely happy with SAB but don’t post their opinion here.. To answer the question if it’s too hard it might be better to look at the data of how many people started which SAB mode and finished it, gave up, how often they died, how long it took them, how often they completed it… instead of just looking at a thread where almost only the ppl that have problems with SAB post their opinion (what makes it totally biased).

I have to admit I’m enjoying it as is, and I don’t really see the need to add any complaints about difficulty spikes since I’m pretty sure they’ve been covered here a hundred times already and the team is all too aware of them.

Mostly I see a need for a lot more preparation in this world, like having to go back and farm up baubles to access things like the new items or it being wise to run it in infantile mode first to get an idea of the lay of things, which kind of breaks up the flow at times.

Since people of importance are taking notice of this thread: it would be nice, once you have the glove, to be able to reflect the blocks back at the “glove guy” for higher damage, or maybe even a 1-hit kill, on replays.

Just as a little reward to a player for using his own mechanic against him.

World 2 rapids are just waaaay too sensitive. I did enjoy world 1 (despite jumping pads which just couldn’t tell where I was), even tribulation mode was more or less fun. I did have a microlag which killed me numerous times but the river part in w2z1 is just ridiculous. I just can’t tell whats going on. I’m standing on a safe rock for good 6 seconds and then suddenly game starts to throw my character all over the place.
The river especially loves to knock me back when I’m midair while not touching anything… This is more like a tedious chore than a game.

Please Anet, consider changing how the water detects collision to work properly… please T_T

ps. I think I noticed where the problem is: if, when jumping from the water geyser, it dissapears the jump is interrupted which basically means that you have to land on the destination before that happens… otherwise you have to watch your toon as it gets tossed randomly by the current and slowly loose health. I bet there are some programming reasons for such mechanics but it just doesn’t work.

I wouldn’t mind the increased difficulty in world 2 if you didn’t have lives and the coins mechanic, but I guess anet have it so they can sell the infinite coin in gemstore for $$.
World 1 was much more fun than this garbage.

Daroon.1736:

Playing world 2 level 1 for the bauble and hidden room achievement at the moment and overall it’s quite fun – but having real difficulty with the ascent up the rapids to the hidden hillybilly cave where the last jump on the rapids seems very random. Same positioning, same leap and 95% of the time its just instant death – most frustrating.

A tiny bit more leeway on the rapids jumps looks like it would improve things greatly.

Works best if you jump and then move towards the last rock. Least that’s what I found. Anytime I tried moving towards the rock to get momentum for the jump I’d get caught in the rapids and in most cases subsequently launched out of the cave.

TexRob.5183:

I see your point, but your extremes are too aggressive, this isn’t a Facebook game. Also your housewife comment is a bit offensive to women.

As a mom/housewife that just finished tribulation mode for world 1 (most fun I’ve had in game for ages) and did world 2 on normal yesterday I agree.

Yes world 2 was too big a difficulty jump from world 1. After doing world 1 I felt pretty much everyone should go try it. After doing world 2 I felt that everyone that loves the hard jumping puzzles, has a lot of time on their hands and can afford a an infinite continue coin should go try it. It’s just too complicated (navigation, density/intensity of skill checks per checkpoint) and time consuming (at least for a straight run from start to finish) but it sounds like that feedback has been listened to.

It’s still a heck of a lot of fun and I loved every single mechanic, just maybe not so many of them all crammed together. Huge kudos to Josh for pushing the game engine like this and giving us things that for better or worse people feel passionately about!

Assassin X.8573:

sofar these devs have been nothing but rude kittenbags to the playerbase. Great customer service you have going on here

The only true part of this is the second sentence. You clearly haven’t read any of the dev responses. Maybe you’re just trolling, or maybe you just like slandering others, but either way your baseless negativity is an unappreciated distraction in the constructive discussion that we’re attempting to have.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Teutos.8620:

Personally there have been about ~10 locations where I preferred to use the dodge-jump. I’m not sure, what the design philosophy is behind the dodge-jump, and if you think this usage is legit or not. The jumps above the bell is one of the locations I think the dodge jump was really really helpful if not necessary.

The dodge jump is never necessary. Me and QA make sure we do all our test passes without it.

I’m glad for that, because I cannot pull off that jump at all. The dodge is basically just a glitch/bug anyway, isn’t it?

cubed.2853:

Just keep in mind you design content for absolutly everyone. So tribulation mode can be near impossible, but the default mode should even be achievable for the housewife next door. From my personal experience with w2z1 I think at least one more re-enterable checkpoint would solve a lot of frustation.
As developer you often loose the distance to your own project, so maybe take the worst SAB player of anet and take him/her as a reference?

LOL I volunteer for that project.

(and honestly, my only gripe after all these days is w1-3.. I still haven’t seen w2 sob )

Josh Foreman.8250:

Teutos.8620:

Personally there have been about ~10 locations where I preferred to use the dodge-jump. I’m not sure, what the design philosophy is behind the dodge-jump, and if you think this usage is legit or not. The jumps above the bell is one of the locations I think the dodge jump was really really helpful if not necessary.

The dodge jump is never necessary. Me and QA make sure we do all our test passes without it.

Odd because in W2Z2 I ran into a jump that it seemed impossible without the dodge jump. I even went back and tried the jump with a normal jump and couldn’t make it.

Also you say you dont have any jumps required with the dodge jump but some jumps in W1 of SAB did require you to take advantage of the fact that you could fall off a platform for about half a second and then jump, to make the jump. Specifically thinking of one in W1Z3. It’s still the same concept that you’re having us use a bug in the game to progress.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Awesome. You play through every year? That’s still my favorite game. It’s responsible for my career. I’m working on a re-make with my own high res graphics. Here’s some of the sculptures I’ve done for it so far.
http://scrybe.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=24

Wo, those are really good. What are they made of?

Josh Foreman.8250:

And some of those later dungeons were BRUTAL. The rooms with 8 darknuts you can only hit in the back? That seems WAY harder to me than SAB.

I hate those rooms!

Josh Foreman.8250:

CommodoreSkippy.2657:

Rather than decreasing the Baubles earned, increasing the prices would have been a better solution. Yes, it’s artificial, but it’s about the FEEL of earning more.

I think you’re right about this and I’m going to see what I can do.

No, don’t punish our inventory space!

Josh Foreman.8250:

Crise.9401:

Here is a suggestion, please create third mode… like infantile, but with the principle of “help on demand” rather than having it shoved in my face. Being someone who had 0 need for infantile mode before the notorious water sprouts in W2 Z1 I would really appreciate the ability to get helping hand when I hit a brick wall not have to choose to either go through the level on rails, or keep slamming my head against that wall.

Funny, I brought this idea up a couple weeks ago. I think I was told we couldn’t do it for some technical reason. I’ll ask again.

Please not a fourth mode. Maybe an option to change to infantile mode at the last checkpoint would address this concern though, but there would have to be no going back.

Player Character.9467:

Josh Foreman.8250:

Puru.4217:

Question:

Would it be possible that instead of simply reducing the longevity of the next levels, you could divide them in two parts?

I’m thinking of just making a lot of alternate paths and more secrets. That way a casual player can run through the main path with ease and those who want tougher content can opt into it.

Just remember there’s that all baubles in 1 run achiev…

Achievements should complement content, not limit it.

Don’t be defensive. SAB is great, but it just needs some adjustments. Less comabt, shorter zones. I’d like to respond specifically to each of your responses and maybe explain why people are making these complaints

1. The zones are too long

You are complaining about too much content.
_No, they are complaining about the inability to stop and come back later without having to complete the first half of the level over again. Zone 2 is undeniable too long. There is no rule that you have to have only 3 zones per World. Break it up more. _

2. Jumping on a flower can throw you into another flower and kill you

You can be more careful about the direction you are facing when you land on them.
Dashing is buggy. We saw this in Zephyr Sanctum update.

3. Crocodile hit boxes are too little

You need to use tactical stratagy to find the spots to hit the from, just like old platform games.
I didn’t experience this problem but I was playing an asuran, so my hitbox is bigger than my model, but there is plenty of buggy terrain, so I wouldn’t doubt peoples complaints. It isn’t “just like old games”. It’s wonky. It’s unintuitive. I grew up the old games. It’s nothing like that. Player character models use the same or similar hitboxes, but are of many different shapes and sizes. This is not a problem old games had.

4. Too many enemies on all maps

Learning where enemies are and how to thwart them is part of the process of progressing in old platform games.
_But in old platform games, you had accurate abilities and mechanics. Don’t keep saying the buggy unintuitive things are like “old games”. _

5. World 2 spike traps are not fair, especially when you get to places where there are lots of cheap ones.

They are all visible. The darts shoot out of dart boxes. The assassin training grounds are meant to teach you to carefully observe your surroundings.
I agree with this. The dart traps are visible enough. However, by the time people get to this point they are frustrated, but can’t pause and return later. The level is too long and that is why people get frustrated at every little thing in this level.

6. World 2 does not have nearly enough checkpoints and repeating the gong run is painful

The gong run is painful. I’d like to tap that difficulty spike down.
I think people are just exhausted by the time they get to that point. Has anyone ever told you that that level is too long?

OVERALL, I’d like to say that the levels are long and, compared to W1, you are obviously designed to die a lot if you mess up. I guess to make you a) farm for continue coins or b) buy an infinite coin. W1 was definitely built with a different philosophy behind it. I find both worlds to be fun, but world 2 just feels less rewarding. There are hardly any baubles along the normal path, and exploration is too trechorous, because when you mess up you die, instead of just having to retry the jumps. I expect anyone not going for the wizard or toad weapons will simply be farming W1.

Josh Foreman.8250:

It’s most helpful to us if you are specific about areas that have difficulty spikes for you. (Such as mentioning the spin flowers above.) Also things are always laggy the first day of content release. So complaints about lag don’t help.

Just got perma-stuck at the end of 2-1 due to the spin flowers. First one flung me onto the second which constantly threw me into the rock wall at a right angle, thus I just landed back on the flower, unable to redirect myself or even die to try again.

Almost 1000 replies, wow.

I’ve yet to get dodge jump to work. I hear pressing V + space at the same time is easier.

VKP Butcher.2751:

Daroon.1736:

Playing world 2 level 1 for the bauble and hidden room achievement at the moment and overall it’s quite fun – but having real difficulty with the ascent up the rapids to the hidden hillybilly cave where the last jump on the rapids seems very random. Same positioning, same leap and 95% of the time its just instant death – most frustrating.

A tiny bit more leeway on the rapids jumps looks like it would improve things greatly.

Works best if you jump and then move towards the last rock. Least that’s what I found. Anytime I tried moving towards the rock to get momentum for the jump I’d get caught in the rapids and in most cases subsequently launched out of the cave.

Thanks, I eventually managed to get past that one jump and complete the level and get both achievements- I’m pretty reasonable at jump puzzles and managed to do everything else on that level without losing a life, but for that one trip up the rapids and that one jump in particular, I needed 4 continue coins (about 19 consecutive fails)
which suggests to me that the problem is in the collision detection around rapids being ‘off’

Just reading through this thread and I must say I am very very impressed with Dev response – The willingness to explain the thought processes behind decisions and an willingness to make changes after feedback is a admirable – Well done Josh!

Dodge jump can be a real pain to do. Even more so when you die because you only dodged =/.

Right now ,I have Tribulation mode on farm ,takes me about 30 min for W2 Z1 and Z2 , last try on Z3 took me about an hour ,but I know I can do better than that .

My only complaint is those kitten sprouts at the first rapid in W2 Z2. They already are a pain to do, but having to wait for someone when you help a friend in tribulation mode ? The agony .

Dying all the time wasn’t even frustrating for me, it was funny, like : Oh god ,that’s a cheap shot. or HAHAHAH this trap is for real ?
You learn by dying ,and i found myself avoiding most trap in later zone without even knowing they were there. For kitten and giggles ,I tried taking slightly diffrent path in later runs,and found myself dying right where I thought : There must be a trap right there.

Protip : Avoid taking a straight path to your objective.

Overall 9/10, because of those kitten sprouts (and as people mentionned, the storm wizard just bullrushing you to death when he’s at 1/3 hp)

Hey Josh I want to tell you about my time in SAB

The first time I saw SAB back in April. I was crazy for it. My Wife and I spent HOURS Collecting all the Achievements and Skins. We had a blast! It improved our jumping skills and gave us a great plat-forum game for us to enjoy! We got mad, and had small Anxiety attacks. Some of those hidden rooms….. We even spent some time getting as far as we could in W2.

This time around……ITS GREAT STILL! Yah its hard, but if you go back to games like Mario Brothers, Mega Man, Zelda, form NES and SNES. YOU DIED ALOT. IT GOT HARD. Some times it even felt to hard. But they are still being played today. My Wife and I spent 5 Hours playing through W2 Z1 and Z2. We died tons. We raged, Slamed the keyboards. And Enjoyed it all! I wish I Had recored my Wifes rant about the Fishs in W2 Z1. When your jumping up the rapids. It was the Funnest and most Angry I have ever seen from her. Shes a short little Asian Girl

Now about the Infinite Coin. I always buy things from the Gem Shop. Be it with Gold or real life Money. I bought the 2 Coins and 2 Mini Packs the moment I logged in. I can see where people are saying that is was a set up, form a players point of view. But its not hard to get the Coins. I got tons from Jps and bubbles are easy to get.

Josh. Keep it up. Don’t let those players that give up make you give up, You have given My Wife and I some great Memories to for ever hold on to.

Cant wait to see World 3. I am off to work on my green and yellow Daggers.

I’m seeing a trend here…

“The second I got into the game, I purchased the infinite life coin. I had a ton of fun playing World 2!”

“I ran out of extra life coins while trying to get past the rapids. This is so hard, I am done.”

Anyone else see the difference? Having infinite lives suddenly makes death trivial, making a stressful part of the game (running out of lives) suddenly stress-free.

just to be clear. I Bought the Coin Because I but most of the Gem story items. I don’t pay a sub so they can give me cool stuff for my Money.