Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

in Super Adventure Box: Back to School

Posted by: Rikimaru.7890

Rikimaru.7890

Those that didn’t finish Tribulation mode are probably wondering why those that did finish it like me say its easy. The reason is that its not really a “hard mode” but actually “trial and error mode.” What I mean is it has fake difficulty by having traps that cannot be detected until you step into them. So everyone that finished it say its easy because we already know where the traps are so its far more easy to reach the end on repeat.
I really think the traps should be visible because there are times when we have to move right on the edge of them so visible or not we can still get killed by them in such a situation.

So in overall Tribulation mode is only hard the first time but after that its easy.
Even I can design a level with that kind of difficulty and in 1 sentence:
Make a level that is one big pit and to cross it players have to jump over 100 invisible platforms with a checkpoint every 10-20 platforms. There you see? Its easy!

Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

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Posted by: ndrangles.5183

ndrangles.5183

i don’t actually play a lot of the ultrahard games or whatever the genre is called that trib mode is based off of. so this is just my own personal impression of things. but based on what i have seen in those games, the main difference in trib mode is you have so many safe spots. you can just chill and look around and think things through as much as you want. other hardmode games, again i have not played them a lot, but my impression is they will force you to keep moving to avoid dying at many parts, or for more of the time than trib mode does. and that forces more quick thinking and tough decisions that contribute to the difficulty. for that kind of design, you would want more visible traps, and more traps in general, and more traps that move and fly at you and force you to stay mobile. one of the few examples i can think of this in trib mode is the flying hands/arrows. what would be even better to me, though, is to take the frogger halls, like the logs in w2z1 and add 500% more pirahnas or something to make it actually difficult to get through. there were some parts in trib where i was expecting to see more enemies or traps thrown into an obstacle course, like the logs or the gong roll, but then they turned out to be almost identical to normal mode.

the majority of the time in trib, you can sit and think as long as you want about what path is the right one to take, and once you have the general pathing figured out, then you just throw yourself at that path until all the invisible traps are revealed and you know exactly what to do. it is different, you’re right, and it’s kind of a more passive approach to difficulty imo. i would say, to make it more exciting and active, consider adding more visible traps that require smart movement and dodging, like the flying handarrows or something. things we do NOT need more of would be: fake floors, endless knockback loops from rocks and water where you have to wait a while to be able to move again (or just get stuck infinitely and have to restart, not a fan of that).

i have reached the point where i can farm trib mode, although i won’t go claiming any magnificent speedrun time. but it still gets boring once it’s all figured out. so, these are just my opinions after all i have been through. again, i have never really played these kinds of games, but trib mode has successfully gotten me interested! basically, i would like things added that make farming and speedrunning difficult, things that aren’t just a matter of memorizing an invisible safe path. my ideas were all supposed to be aimed towards that goal, but if other people have better ideas than me on how to accomplish that, which they probably do, then it’d be good to hear from you.

i also just wanted to say that the ironic use of spike pads in the w1z3 honeycomb maze was my favorite and still is. you get a A+ for irony there.

Majyyks [Os] – NSP

Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

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Posted by: Chief.5928

Chief.5928

I love the SAB v1.0 and v2.0 but Tribulation mode does annoy me quite a bit. As you indeed observe correctly it isn’t exactly hard as much as it is a matter of trial and error.

The invisible lava pits, the spikes coming from the walls etc. all of these can only be detected by getting hit by them once and then avoiding them the next time.

Tribulation mode would have been better/more fun if it depended a bit more on actual skill, like is already partially present by not touching any flowers, avoiding the rocks that try to pummel you etc. If more of such elements would be incorporated this mode would be improving quite considerably.

Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

Tribulation mode was directly inspired by “platform hell” games…and all of those have got traps like the ones mentioned.
Also, the lava pits aren’t exactly invisible for the most part – you can notice the terrain is different in the places you can fall in.
Anyway, they had to add something like that for the first levels, because they were too straightforward otherwise.
In the third zone of the second world, it is almost all about jumps and timing, but that’s because the zone permits to do so.

Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

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Posted by: Liquid Blade.6529

Liquid Blade.6529

If you can tell me how any platformer can be “hard” the second time round, I’ll give you a cookie. All platformers are just a learning experience. Once you know the route, you’re golden. Same process if you want to do speed clears, re-learn it to find the best path.

People need to learn there are different forms of Difficulty. Tequatl isn’t “hard” at all, and I say that as never getting him past 90% (not interested in guesting yet).

Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

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Posted by: Rikimaru.7890

Rikimaru.7890

If you can tell me how any platformer can be “hard” the second time round, I’ll give you a cookie. All platformers are just a learning experience. Once you know the route, you’re golden. Same process if you want to do speed clears, re-learn it to find the best path.

People need to learn there are different forms of Difficulty. Tequatl isn’t “hard” at all, and I say that as never getting him past 90% (not interested in guesting yet).

You are missing the point here. In an actual hard mode the difficulty is increased with features like more enemies, taking more damage, dealing less damage yourself, more traps and so on. In such a case the game requires us to become better at it to overcome the odds in the end. However if the difficulty is increased by placing invisible traps then it doesn’t require us to get better but instead to learn where we can and cannot stand. A real tough experience is one that is indeed hard but if you are truly skilled at the game you can still overcome it without much difficulty. Here however it is impossible not to die and it actually becomes a requirement in order to finish it.

Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

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Posted by: ndrangles.5183

ndrangles.5183

Tribulation mode would have been better/more fun if it depended a bit more on actual skill, like is already partially present by not touching any flowers, avoiding the rocks that try to pummel you etc. If more of such elements would be incorporated this mode would be improving quite considerably.

that’s not exactly true. many of the invisible traps require you to be very precise in your movements, which is the same kind of skill you’re describing. i like those ones.

my only real critique is that i want there to be fewer spots where i could afk, meaning more things that attack you or fly at you instead of passive traps that just lie there and wait for you to accidentally step on them. meaning more difficulty!

and also, the longer path is not necessarily the more challenging or more fun one. imagine if they had souped up the log run in 2-1 and made us do a hard version of it, instead of just sending us through the hillbilly cave which was exactly the same as normal mode.

Majyyks [Os] – NSP

Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

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Posted by: Knote.2904

Knote.2904

I would’ve prefered if the hard mode was actually hard mode, things like Clocktower jumping puzzle, or even the parts where you have to jump and avoid the jumping rocks really quickly and even dodge roll into them.

Trial and error for one shot invisible stuff was kinda boring.

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Posted by: Ceribrocanasans.4135

Ceribrocanasans.4135

If you guys think it’s too easy after you beat it and that there’s no skill involved in memorizing traps, then do it again without dying. It makes it fun again.

Crigger – Death and Taxes [DnT]
http://www.dtguilds.com

Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

I can’t remember the game exactly, but I swear there was one that had a great way how they handled difficulty. On normal mode, you could progress relatively easy and there were a few puzzles/obstacles. On hard mode, there were a ton of puzzles/obstacles.

Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

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Posted by: Zaxares.5419

Zaxares.5419

I would’ve prefered if the hard mode was actually hard mode, things like Clocktower jumping puzzle, or even the parts where you have to jump and avoid the jumping rocks really quickly and even dodge roll into them.

I’m against this suggestion simply for the reason that those sections with the jumping rocks/rapids/exploding lily pads are an absolute PAIN to anyone who doesn’t have near-perfect latency. It’s not fun bashing your head against a puzzle that you know you’re only having trouble beating because the game thinks you’re about half a second behind where your screen shows you to be.

Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

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Posted by: bookman.9260

bookman.9260

this is what the designers made tribulation mode about though. The insta-kill traps and hidden spikes are a staple of the same type of frustrating puzzle jumpers they based tribulation mode on.

Honestly people keep discussing difficulty of trib mode, when without the hidden kill traps trib mode would still be pretty difficult because it actually does have fairly difficult jumps. the strafing jumps in the first path of world 2 zone 3 and the ice floor spikes with trib cloud blockers in world 2 zone 3 are particularly difficult jumps to do and require a good jumping prowess.

But in the end if you really complain about difficulty, the only difficulty is twitch skills and precise jumping, which means people with faster reaction times and better twitch skills will always think the content is easy vs. people who have bad twitch skills and bad reaction times.

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Posted by: lazorexplosion.9602

lazorexplosion.9602

I have played and enjoyed the ultra-hard platformers like I Wanna Be The Guy that tribulation mode is supposedly based on.

In I Wanna Be The Guy, there are surprise deaths but you actually have a chance to avoid almost all of them if you react in time. You won’t avoid every surprise death you trigger but you will avoid many of them so it feels fair and satisfying. In tribulation mode, the invisible spikes just kill you straight out and the only counter play is repetitive trial and error.

In I Wanna Be The Guy, surprise deaths are like the comic relief between the 95% of your deaths which are due to attempting difficult jumps requiring precision and timing. Tribulation mode is the opposite; most deaths will come from the invisible surprise kill cheapness and getting to a difficult jump is the occasional relief.

That’s why I Wanna Be The Guy is challenging and enjoyable and tribulation mode is cheap frustrating garbage. Tribulation mode is an attempt at Guyesque jumping challenge that catastrophically fails to understand what makes Guy fun.

Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

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Posted by: Relic.7148

Relic.7148

I have played and enjoyed the ultra-hard platformers like I Wanna Be The Guy that tribulation mode is supposedly based on.

In I Wanna Be The Guy, there are surprise deaths but you actually have a chance to avoid almost all of them if you react in time. You won’t avoid every surprise death you trigger but you will avoid many of them so it feels fair and satisfying. In tribulation mode, the invisible spikes just kill you straight out and the only counter play is repetitive trial and error.

In I Wanna Be The Guy, surprise deaths are like the comic relief between the 95% of your deaths which are due to attempting difficult jumps requiring precision and timing. Tribulation mode is the opposite; most deaths will come from the invisible surprise kill cheapness and getting to a difficult jump is the occasional relief.

That’s why I Wanna Be The Guy is challenging and enjoyable and tribulation mode is cheap frustrating garbage. Tribulation mode is an attempt at Guyesque jumping challenge that catastrophically fails to understand what makes Guy fun.

I found most of the traps hilarious, especially the spike traps stuck in the most random places, like the one ledge climbing up at the start of W1Z3 and the trap in the secret room of W1Z1. The exploding flowers are great and inching around flowers hoping not to die is fun. The fact there is a normal mode to compare to with other common gaming tropes makes it more entertaining. I think you missed the strength of IWTBTG referring to the same tropes.

Tribulation mode is pseudo hard mode

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Posted by: akamon.2769

akamon.2769

there are some tricky jumps involved though. or soemtimes, rather, if you want to find the quickest route. which is fun too.

heh, i do agree, sometimes the random deaths are like WTF. and in a good way. XDD or soemtimes after doing them enough, you’re like i got this! and then you hit a trap you’ve never seen ebfore and you’re like “well, the more you know…”

Akaimon | Jolly Good Guardian
Akaigi | Warrior Made of Wood
[CDS] – Sanctum of Rall