Guild Wars 2

Rising Dusk.2408:

Josh Foreman.8250:

I would hope that in 3 years, some guy with his SAB scepter is feeling that way about it.

Likely not, since that same guy could have, that day, shelled out whatever the gold cost is for the item and gotten it all the same. If you want limited edition stuff that “you had to be there to get”, you can’t make it purchasable on the TP. If you want prestigious things that showcase “you did this and have great skill / dedication”, you can’t make it purchasable on the TP. If you’re going to have them purchasable on the TP, you may as well have them come back down the road because the prestige simply won’t be there regardless.

I don’t care for any of the SAB skins because having one says nothing about my ability to complete the content or be exceedingly good at it or whatever. Meanwhile, I have hunted so many Fractal skins that you’d probably be shocked. Those Fractal skins carry prestige, while the SAB skins never will thanks to them being purchasable on the TP.

It’s not about what that or any other guy for that matter could’ve done, it’s about personal value. The fact that it can be bought on TP doesn’t take away from that value.
Anybody can also buy that rare extreme gpu or signed poster / cd / shirt whatever on ebay or similar as well as long as they shell out enough cash for it.
Furthermore the fractal skins you’re talking about don’t say anything about your ability to complete the content or how good you’re at playing this game either. Your guild could’ve carried you through repeatedly while you were afk most of the time or your afk’ness might even have been tolerated by pugs for all I know.
For me they’re worthless and don’t carry prestige because I know I can easily complete fractals ad nauseum, it’s just not the type of content I prefer playing. The fact you’ve earned those items only shows that you’ve been there a lot of times (or were extremely lucky) and wasn’t afk when it was time to loot.

Josh Foreman.8250:

It’s a design aesthetic. A lot people want prestige items which means limiting them. You can limit items by making the amount of time/resources required to get them very large, or you can limit them having them in for a limited time only. We could make every item easy to attain and permanently available, but then we lose the prestige factor. If you don’t value the prestige factor, then no arguments are going to make you understand. It would be like arguing someone into liking heavy metal or kimchi. Personally, I don’t particularly value the prestige factor, but I understand that it is a HUGE motivating force that drives the engine of the economy.

I get wanting prestigious skins, but aren’t there kind of a lot of skins that show prestige?

1) Legendaries
2) Skins requiring legendary components but aren’t legendary ( Guardian, Ele summon weapon skins, anomaly, Volcanus, could keep going..)
3) Skins requiring a shocking amount of lodestones (I’m looking at you Infinite Light, Mjolnir).
4) Previous events (The three harder to get halloween skins).
5) All the unique skins that come from the mystic forge which require 30-100 mystic coins.
-Destroyer, Corrupted weapons, Mesmer weapon skins
-Random uniques

My point is that if someone wants prestigious weapons, they have a HUGE selection. I honestly can’t think of any skins that have been added to the game since launch that don’t either require a ton of work or require you to be very very lucky with RNG (black lion chest skins) or fortunate enough to have real life money to spend on (black lion chest skins again).

Can we just stop this trend of new skins —> prestigious, at least once? That’s what was so nice about GW1. There were those top of the line skins everyone went for (Crystalline, Voltaic, Obby Edge, etc), but there was also a ton of the middle of the road skins that were actually real well designed. It seems this really nice idea was completely ditched in the game. You either have the skins you level up with, or you have to spend a very large amount of gold (relative to the average player) to just get 1 skin. I just do not get it. Dungeon skins being the 1 exception.

Ursan.7846:

You have your own definition of “prestige” and “rarity.” That’s fine.

But in the end, prestige is in the eyes of the beholder. Different people hold different views of what prestige is. To some, rarity is prestige.

No, actually, prestige is in the dictionary as primarily relating to achievements or successes (although to some extent is influenced by something’s value). Value is also in the dictionary, and the rarity of something absolutely and unequivocally changes its value. Just because something is rare doesn’t make it prestigious, but because something is rare does make it valuable.

(P.S. I’m not being pedantic or degrading, I’m being serious; these terms have been used forever and ever and ever in real life and in games to describe items)

Ryuujin.8236:

So, people who were unable to attend get screwed?

I REALLY wanted to try out the SAB and get some of the skins but I’m stuck on a PC incapable of running GW2 since just before April, and my new PC got delayed so it taken a few weeks to arrive after ordering; it’ll arrive (ironiclly) on the 30th.

It’s frustrating to have to miss out awesome looking content due to arbitrary time limits just because someone will get upset if they have to share their weapon skin with more than 3 other people on the planet. GW2 needs to feel like it’s growing and that means adding new content that is here to stay

It’s not like you need remove the content to keep the rewards unique. Star Trek Online does a similar thing, and when the “event” phase is over, the content stays in, but the unique rewards are replaced with generic rewards

I want, I want, I want, I want. So save up money and buy what you want. It’s not that difficult to comprehend.

Rising Dusk.2408:

No, actually, prestige is in the dictionary as primarily relating to achievements or successes (although to some extent is influenced by something’s value). Value is also in the dictionary, and the rarity of something absolutely and unequivocally changes its value. Just because something is rare doesn’t make it prestigious, but because something is rare does make it valuable.

reputation or influence arising from success, achievement, rank, or other favorable attributes.

And to some people, “being there” is an achievement. To others, having enough money to purchase incredibly rare things is is their own form of success.

Again, everything is in the eyes of the beholder. Just because you think something isn’t prestigious, doesn’t mean everyone else in the game thinks like you do.

Rising Dusk.2408:

(P.S. I’m not being pedantic or degrading, I’m being serious; these terms have been used forever and ever and ever in real life and in games to describe items)

No, you’re just being incredibly stubborn on viewing this matter through your own personal perspective.

I don’t appreciate that your retort to everything I’ve said has repeatedly been “it’s your opinion” (and I especially don’t appreciate being called stubborn; I’m only trying to elucidate my point). My opinion is that the skins are not valuable to me because they’re not prestigious. Prestigious, as I am using it, is dictionary-defined and objective; it has nothing to do with my opinion, and represents the achievements that were earned to get the item in question. The value of the items is a personal thing, and is thus subjective. So what is my opinion is whether or not I care for them, what isn’t my opinion and is an objective quality of the item is what those items mean based on the achievements needed to acquire them.

Ursan.7846:

And to some people, “being there” is an achievement.

You’re right! Being there is an achievement! But because you can buy the items on the store, no one will know if you were there or bought it instead and weren’t there. That reduces the prestige of the item because there’s no way for someone else to know. Maybe you (or whoever) don’t care about that, and that’s fine (looking cool for looking cool’s sake is also, go figure, cool).

Ursan.7846:

To others, having enough money to purchase incredibly rare things is is their own form of success.

Yup, right again! Having the money to buy items that are valuable to you is a great form of success! However, being able to buy the item in question reduces the prestige of the item. Imagine that you could send money to the president to have him formally award you a medal of honor. That would belittle the achievements and sacrifices of those other people who earned it because now you could say “Oh you could’ve just bought that”. A prestigious item IRL is like the medal of honor, and it just so happens that prestigious items tend to be rare, and thus, more valuable. Items like a Mustang are valuable, but not prestigious.

Sorin.4310:

I get wanting prestigious skins, but aren’t there kind of a lot of skins that show prestige?
…
My point is that if someone wants prestigious weapons, they have a HUGE selection.

I couldn’t agree more. I have no problem with the already-rare skins (Halloween, Legendary, etc.). I just don’t understand why that concept is being applied to SAB. SAB is all about fun and equality (profession doesn’t matter, everyone is the same profession in SAB). Why do we have to introduce the element of exclusionary content to this?

And I do not have an ulterior motive; I have farmed all the skins I want and have saved up quite a few Bubbles in anticipation of the next release. I just don’t understand the logic surrounding this decision.

You can’t compare rare digital goods with rare physical ones.

Recreating a prestige digital item is infinitely easier than recreating a physical one.
When you get a signed ball, and the signer dies, you cannot get more of those, unless you get your hands on a time machine. You could try and make a counterfeit signature and sell it, but the fact remains that it’s not the item.

When you get a digital item, as long as the data exists, it can be recreated. And as long as anyone has the item in-game, the data must exist.

With physical items, the warehouse is empty when the item runs out. When someone demands more, you can only /shrug, as nothing can be done.

With digital ones, the warehouse is endless, and if no more items come out of it, it’s just because the one who owns the warehouse wants to.

I can understand why limiting the access to the item creates rarity, but there’s no excuse for never, ever bringing a particular item back. An item can be available only for a few days ever year, or every several years, and still be rare.

“Gone forever” is not something you should do with digital goods.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I don’t appreciate that your retort to everything I’ve said has repeatedly been “it’s your opinion” (and I especially don’t appreciate being called stubborn; I’m only trying to elucidate my point). My opinion is that the skins are not valuable to me because they’re not prestigious. Prestigious, as I am using it, is dictionary-defined and objective; it has nothing to do with my opinion, and represents the achievements that were earned to get the item in question.

Prestigious and dictionary-defined:

Merrian-Webster defines prestigious as follows:

1 having a good reputation especially in a field of knowledge
2 standing above others in rank, importance, or achievement

The reputation depends from how others view you.

The “above” in 2 depends from the definition of “top” and “bottom” which is completely “man-made”, that is: it depends how people estimate what is above and what is below.

So “prestigious” is in no way objective (independent from opinions and valuations). Just the opposite.

That leads to the conclusion that the statement that something is prestigious is in itself only an opinion. The statement gets its power only from the fact that many people share that opinion. For example wearing a medal because of merits as soldier in a war is only prestigious if most people think being brave in a war is good. If you live in a country where war and soldiers are frowned upon a war medal is anything but prestigious.

You may not appreciate his retorts, but he is right.

Shiren.9532:

Even if the Wintersday skins are available one month every 12 months, for the 11 months they are not available they have added prestige.

I have a feeling that the Wintersday skins will be different every year.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Prestigious, as I am using it, is dictionary-defined and objective

No, especially when words in said dictionary definition are entirely subjective and open to interpretation. “Success” “Achievement” “Respect” can mean different things to different people.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I especially don’t appreciate being called stubborn; I’m only trying to elucidate my point

Yes, I think we all understand what your point is. You don’t view rarity in itself as a form of prestige. That’s great. That’s your opinion. I understand it. You’re not, and can’t be, wrong on your opinion. You are wrong however, if you insist that your subjective opinion is actually objective.

MithranArkanere.8957:

With digital ones, the warehouse is endless, and if no more items come out of it, it’s just because the one who owns the warehouse wants to.

I can understand why limiting the access to the item creates rarity, but there’s no excuse for never, ever bringing a particular item back. An item can be available only for a few days ever year, or every several years, and still be rare..

DeBeers artificially enforces rarity of Diamonds in order to keep their value high.

Physical/Digital has nothing to do with it. Whether the constraint is natural or artificial, it’s still a constraint. A constraint purposefully applied with a clear goal in mind, I must add.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Katz.5143:

I think that being special is an inherent quality to the item and has nothing to do with it being limited.

I like to pretend that I’m a purist like this. But then I think about my Dinotopia book and Virgin Black poster that are signed by the artists. The signature adds nothing significant aesthetically to the items, but I value them more as a result. I also have my original Jetfire Transformer from when I was a kid, and the fact that they aren’t made any more does seem to imbue that hunk of metal (back then they used METAL in toys!) and plastic with more value. People will pay more for an old broken down ‘67 Mustang than than a new car. I think that ’being special’ is indeed an inherent quality, but that PART of the inherent quality is its context in the world. A ’67 Mustang is inherently more valuable because it is scarce, like my Transformer and Virgin Black poster.

Or perhaps we’re looking at it the wrong way. Maybe the premise that ‘inherent value’ is a tenable concept is wrong. After all, value is a human-derived concept. ‘Things’ are just different combinations of chemicals after all. Nothing HAS value in and of itself. So if we can agree that value is composed of -and for- humans, and only perceived by them, than the full gamut of human psychology must inform that valuation. And having something that others do not is, like it or not, an unavoidable component of human psychology. It may be a part that the more self-examining among us tend to loathe, and would like to grow out of. But it’s there none-the-less. The impulse to escape it is perhaps the impulse behind asceticism? I don’t know. It’s interesting to ponder.

+1 for writing a philosophy essay as a valid response.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Katz.5143:

I think that being special is an inherent quality to the item and has nothing to do with it being limited.

I like to pretend that I’m a purist like this. But then I think about my Dinotopia book and Virgin Black poster that are signed by the artists. The signature adds nothing significant aesthetically to the items, but I value them more as a result. I also have my original Jetfire Transformer from when I was a kid, and the fact that they aren’t made any more does seem to imbue that hunk of metal (back then they used METAL in toys!) and plastic with more value. People will pay more for an old broken down ‘67 Mustang than than a new car. I think that ’being special’ is indeed an inherent quality, but that PART of the inherent quality is its context in the world. A ’67 Mustang is inherently more valuable because it is scarce, like my Transformer and Virgin Black poster.

Or perhaps we’re looking at it the wrong way. Maybe the premise that ‘inherent value’ is a tenable concept is wrong. After all, value is a human-derived concept. ‘Things’ are just different combinations of chemicals after all. Nothing HAS value in and of itself. So if we can agree that value is composed of -and for- humans, and only perceived by them, than the full gamut of human psychology must inform that valuation. And having something that others do not is, like it or not, an unavoidable component of human psychology. It may be a part that the more self-examining among us tend to loathe, and would like to grow out of. But it’s there none-the-less. The impulse to escape it is perhaps the impulse behind asceticism? I don’t know. It’s interesting to ponder.

It is also a desire for uniqueness. The more limited a thing is the more unique it is, the more unique it is the more unique those who own it are by extention. If you are unique you are, by definition, special. This is why I run around in a beetleton coat with the precise shoulder you get as a story reward, and with a wolfborn long bow. At level 80 these are extremely rare, none moreso than the shoulderpad though since it is fully inaccessible through anything other than a very early person story reward. Through this I set myself apart from the world.

Ursan.7846:

No, especially when words in said dictionary definition are entirely subjective and open to interpretation. “Success” “Achievement” “Respect” can mean different things to different people.

I do agree that they can be interpreted in different ways, but the connotations of those words are pretty generally accepted and commonplace. I’m not sure if maybe we’re from different countries or if there’s a cultural barrier here that’s inhibiting our ability to understand one another (and if so I apologize). I’ve read a lot of texts on philosophy and linguistics and while I don’t consider myself an ‘expert’ (my degrees aren’t in philosophy and linguistics after all), I make sure to stay pretty well-informed.

That said, in lieu of the fact that you’re vehemently opposing me ad nauseum, I will edge out of this discourse. It’s not productive, and clearly neither of us is any less stubborn than the other, and so this is going nowhere. Good day.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Ok. I acknowledge that is not what SAB skins are. So according to your definition of prestige, they are not prestigious. I’m ok with that. Regardless of my definition or your definition, a lot of people get happy feelings from them. THAT is really all I personally care about. Not the nomenclature.

That’s fine, and I totally am also happy that people enjoy them (more power to them), I just wish there were some item that you could show off that, when people see it, makes them say “Wow that guy is a boss at jump puzzles”. You know, for people like me.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Josh Foreman.8250:

I would hope that in 3 years, some guy with his SAB scepter is feeling that way about it.

Likely not, since that same guy could have, that day, shelled out whatever the gold cost is for the item and gotten it all the same. If you want limited edition stuff that “you had to be there to get”, you can’t make it purchasable on the TP. If you want prestigious things that showcase “you did this and have great skill / dedication”, you can’t make it purchasable on the TP. If you’re going to have them purchasable on the TP, you may as well have them come back down the road because the prestige simply won’t be there regardless.

I don’t care for any of the SAB skins because having one says nothing about my ability to complete the content or be exceedingly good at it or whatever. Meanwhile, I have hunted so many Fractal skins that you’d probably be shocked. Those Fractal skins carry prestige, while the SAB skins never will thanks to them being purchasable on the TP.

I like the SAB skins, but they aren’t my favorites. And I’ve enjoyed the SAB content but I wouldn’t say I love it.

But I will keep the skins I am able to get and look at them from time to time and it will remind me of something that I thought was pretty awesome: a game company having fun with it’s own game rather than taking things too seriously to have a little fun with things and a small team of people showing an amazing amount of creativity and talent in pulling something like this off in an MMO engine. I don’t know how many people will think that (and it’s surely not the only reason to do so) but I think you’re taking too narrow a view of the whole thing if you don’t think it’s likely that someone will be able to look at their SAB skins and think of their source fondly a few years from now.

Josh Foreman.8250:

It’s a design aesthetic. A lot people want prestige items which means limiting them. You can limit items by making the amount of time/resources required to get them very large, or you can limit them having them in for a limited time only. We could make every item easy to attain and permanently available, but then we lose the prestige factor. If you don’t value the prestige factor, then no arguments are going to make you understand. It would be like arguing someone into liking heavy metal or kimchi. Personally, I don’t particularly value the prestige factor, but I understand that it is a HUGE motivating force that drives the engine of the economy.

Please for the love of god josh, do not listen to the whiners. Make a separate dress up game just for them so they don’t kitten about not being handed everything. ‘How dare I not be able to get any item whenever I want, ABSURD’

Josh Foreman.8250:

1. We did about half the weapon set with W1. We’ll do the other half with W2.

You have no idea how happy that has made me. Looking forward to the possibility of getting 2 x daggers & 2 x pistols at some stage in the future.

with W2 can you put a skin for Links hat ?
Tan Asura with pointy ears all green armour with shield and sword, just need the hat now !!!

Josh Foreman.8250:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I just wish there were some item that you could show off that, when people see it, makes them say “Wow that guy is a boss at jump puzzles”. You know, for people like me.

I would also like that. I’m going to be pushing for that when we release hard mode. I’m guessing it won’t be a weapon skin. Maybe a mini or a town hat. Don’t know yet.

How about making an entire Super Armor Skin for Hardmode

Rising Dusk.2408:

Josh Foreman.8250:

Ok. I acknowledge that is not what SAB skins are. So according to your definition of prestige, they are not prestigious. I’m ok with that. Regardless of my definition or your definition, a lot of people get happy feelings from them. THAT is really all I personally care about. Not the nomenclature.

That’s fine, and I totally am also happy that people enjoy them (more power to them), I just wish there were some item that you could show off that, when people see it, makes them say “Wow that guy is a boss at jump puzzles”. You know, for people like me.

They did add that, the Achievements and title, trust me it was a lot harder to get the the super weapons, that to me is the prestige part of SAB.

Sure i’ll miss it and the weapons, i have multiple copies of all the weapons because i knew something like this may come, i played GW1 where this happened occasionally..

I’m sure it’ll be back i just hope they don’t make the second set of weapons harder to get than the first set, also i hope the two sets compliment each other..

Josh Foreman.8250:

1. I’m almost certain they will be like every other piece of temporary content. Gone when the event is over.

2. Yet to be determined.

3. Probably not. See answer 1.

To clarify, when you say the skins will be gone is that entirely or just the ones you buy from Moto?

And will World 1 be availible at all in the next incarnation of Adventure Box?

Josh they are not going to be prestige items if no one has them. Just look at WOW, one time only things are gone, you have maybe a handful of the player base out of millions having those item.

So if GW2 has any longevity the skins are just going to disappear, something for you maybe look up on the wiki but there will not be any ingame.

Shinji.2063:

Josh they are not going to be prestige items if no one has them. Just look at WOW, one time only things are gone, you have maybe a handful of the player base out of millions having those item.

So if GW2 has any longevity the skins are just going to disappear, something for you maybe look up on the wiki but there will not be any ingame.

And they’re not going to be prestige items if everybody has them. I see plenty of “one time only” things in WoW, and they’re a hell of a lot harder to get than these skins. You can get a skin with literally two days of SAB if you have 5 characters (takes about an hour tops). And there will always be a supply of the tradeable skins for people who missed the event. The skins are just so ridiculously easy to get that everybody I see nowadays has the greatsword skin.

Ryuujin.8236:

So, people who were unable to attend get screwed?

I REALLY wanted to try out the SAB and get some of the skins but I’m stuck on a PC incapable of running GW2 since just before April, and my new PC got delayed so it taken a few weeks to arrive after ordering; it’ll arrive (ironiclly) on the 30th.

It’s frustrating to have to miss out awesome looking content due to arbitrary time limits just because someone will get upset if they have to share their weapon skin with more than 3 other people on the planet. GW2 needs to feel like it’s growing and that means adding new content that is here to stay

It’s not like you need remove the content to keep the rewards unique. Star Trek Online does a similar thing, and when the “event” phase is over, the content stays in, but the unique rewards are replaced with generic rewards

To be honest, the skins are kind of ugly if it weren’t for the obnoxious particle effects, no one would want them. The way I look at it, so long as I’m not missing a chance at rolling a precursor (ie, ancient karka), then if I miss it, so be it. I doubt I’ll be able to make every event and get every single item. This is the company that brought Mad King Clock Tower, Wintersday, and now Super Adventure Box. There will be more shinies, my man.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I just wish there were some item that you could show off that, when people see it, makes them say “Wow that guy is a boss at jump puzzles”. You know, for people like me.

I would also like that. I’m going to be pushing for that when we release hard mode. I’m guessing it won’t be a weapon skin. Maybe a mini or a town hat. Don’t know yet.

Or a cape?

Ursan.7846:

[…]

DeBeers artificially enforces rarity of Diamonds in order to keep their value high.

Physical/Digital has nothing to do with it. Whether the constraint is natural or artificial, it’s still a constraint. A constraint purposefully applied with a clear goal in mind, I must add.

But they fact still remains.

Regardless of something actually being rare or not, with a digital item, it’s will never be “There’s no more of it”, it will always be “They have it, they just won’t let you have the slightest chance to get it anymore”.

And many players will always perceive it like that.

Also, you could have acquired something, deserved it, be there, and something could happen that made you lose it, from a server error that reverts the game to a previous state to your 4-year-old niece meddling with the game after you had to leave in an emergency so dire that you even didn’t stop to think about closing the game.

But once any of these “one of a kind, never to com back” items are gone, it’s gone for good.
There’s nothing like a PvE locker or a ‘hat maker’ that will recreate the item once obtained and unlocked, and no chance to get it again in the future, depite it being something so easy to do as a digital item.

And 5-10 years is more than enough time to enjoy exclusivity. After that time there will be other prestigious stuff to get, and there’s only so much stuff several characters can carry to show off, many old players have moved on, and many new players have come.

Just giving things to anyone freely will not do, but keeping things from everyone permanently won’t do either.
The middle ground is better. Make thing exclusive, but only for a long time, then give a chance again to get it. A chance to get it, not the item itself.

Josh Foreman.8250:

1. I’m almost certain they will be like every other piece of temporary content. Gone when the event is over.

2. Yet to be determined.

3. Probably not. See answer 1.

See my issue is that there hasn’t really been that much temporary content that isn’t reasonably expected to come again at a certain time.

I mean if you take seasonal content as the example yes you can no longer get the items once the holiday is over but next holiday (if this is like GW1 or certain other games) you’ll be able to get them again, possibly in a different way and perhaps not as easily as the previous year (some games I’ve played have “replica” versions that are gained for doing specific content during the holiday whole the new stuff that year is easier to get).

Outside of the holiday events the only “temporary” content I can currently think of that gave anything “permanent” would be the karka event which is people took part in it gave them an Ancient Karka Shell and a 20 slot box. However the Ancient Karka Shell is still obtainable after the event had disappeared and the 20 slot box offers no real prestige. This being content thats most likely never going to reappear yet still allows the special loot to be obtained compared to what your suggesting with SAB which is content that reappears but doesn’t offer the same reward for doing the same content each time it does appear.

Out side of gem store limited items I can’t think of anything else thats been “temporary” in game with no imaginable way of them returning the next time that content appears.

Josh Foreman.8250:

…By the time we release World 4, the entire game will be complete and playable from start to finish, along with hard mode, and hopefully some other modes we have in mind.

Can’t wait!

Josh Foreman.8250:

Well, I’m speaking colloquially here, because I’m not an expert nor a designer of virtual economies. I just find the subject interesting. In the real world you can buy all sorts of ‘prestigious’ things. Cars, homes, thousand dollar purses, etc. There are other things like prizes and metals you can win for feats of heroism or intellect or skill that you can not buy. It sounds like you want THOSE kinds of prestigious things. That’s cool.

I think one of the big worries here is that the skins CAN be bought, but only from people randomly granted the unbound versions.

There are two versions of every skin: a masterwork version that is account bound and buyable from Moto for baubles, and a rare version that drops from the chest randomly and can be sold on the trading post. If these items will never be obtainable in the game ever again, it means that certain people chosen completely at random are given the ability to sell an item that virtually guarantees a continuous rise in price in the future.

Think about all the complains regarding speculators and market manipulation, warranted or not. Place that next to the grumblings over how much RNG plays into rewards during holidays for getting special looking gear. Combine them, and you have the current rare super skin drops: an item that is randomly granting people a speculator’s dream investment. Not to mention the simple fact that it spoils the cool factor; the concept of “I was there” is completely eliminated if someone can just throw down gold to obtain the same memento a year later.

I am perfectly fine with these skins being bought and sold. I can certainly accept items only appearing as a one time deal. I sincerely disagree, however, with loot that is only available for a limited time EXCEPT for additional skins which are granted randomly for players to buy and sell as they wish at extraordinary price in the competition-free future. You are basically handing a monopoly over to a bunch of random individuals for no reason whatsoever.

You have to decide: is this a one time prize, or a hot new commodity? The former requires a one-time item that cannot be traded, and the latter demands a reward that will be supplied in the future for equal effort. It will not work both ways, for the pursuit of one will destroy the other.

I just find it funny that there are people who spend all their time complaining how some items won’t be available in x amount of days instead of… I dunno… getting the said items instead? -shrug-

Josh Foreman.8250:

2. Yes, World 1 will return when World 2 comes out. By the time we release World 4, the entire game will be complete and playable from start to finish, along with hard mode, and hopefully some other modes we have in mind.

Awesome news – thanks for clearing that up.

Josh Foreman.8250:

Zivhayr.3658:

To clarify, when you say the skins will be gone is that entirely or just the ones you buy from Moto?

And will World 1 be availible at all in the next incarnation of Adventure Box?

1. I don’t know. I’m not the person who determines rewards and how they are distributed. I THINK they will be gone completely. I have no idea if they will ever be re-released. That’s all meta-game stuff. Imagine a typical 8 person NES development team making an action/adventure game in 1988. They were concerned with making a balanced, rewarding experience within their game… and that’s all. If Nintendo corporate wanted to offer prizes to players who sent in photographs of certain end screens or what-have-you, that would be a meta-game, and the corporate office would be the ones handling that whole area.

We (as in the SAB team) come up with what we think would be cool rewards, but ultimately that is not our domain. We have departments that have the whole GW2 experience in mind. (of which we are a teeny-tiny part) They are the ones that have to determine the design aesthetic, consider how the economy needs to stay in balance, keep the long, long term effects of rewards in mind, etc. Me and my little team are not equipped to make those kinds of decisions.

2. Yes, World 1 will return when World 2 comes out. By the time we release World 4, the entire game will be complete and playable from start to finish, along with hard mode, and hopefully some other modes we have in mind.

Not sure if you’ll answer or can provide an answer at the moment but when the SAB comes back can players still get the Distinction of Appleid Jumping title or is that only for this release?

Josh Foreman.8250:

Chorel.1720:

when the SAB comes back can players still get the Distinction of Appleid Jumping title or is that only for this release?

Each World will have a new class of titles, based around degrees, like bachelors, Doctorate, etc. It’s basically Moto’s way of recognizing your level of education according to his program.

Will they be cumulative? Or can you just go right in and get a Doctorate 100%ing the prior worlds? Also I’m pumped for Hard Mode

Josh Foreman.8250:

Chorel.1720:

when the SAB comes back can players still get the Distinction of Appleid Jumping title or is that only for this release?

Each World will have a new class of titles, based around degrees, like bachelors, Doctorate, etc. It’s basically Moto’s way of recognizing your level of education according to his program.

So based on each world having its own titles and achievements it will be possible to get the old achievements and titles? So when world 2 comes out you can do all the achievements for world 1 and obtain the title? Just to clarify.

^^^^^^^^^Legit question. I would hope they wouldnt make achievements and points exclusive. Seems like you would be lessening content for no reason.

Omne.4603:

^^^^^^^^^Legit question. I would hope they wouldnt make achievements and points exclusive. Seems like you would be lessening content for no reason.

Well holiday achievements are already like that. If you missed Wintersday you cant ever get those achievements again, they’ve already said next year’s will be a whole new set of achievements for that probably.

I’d assume the same of SAB, but its tough to say since the content will still be there, whereas wintersday will likely look very different.

Josh.
My 2 Coppers 4 u… joke

At start I thought SaB was kitten duo to the released 8bit pictures, but after keep trying and learning it, it proved to be funny anyway. (thanks dulfy LOL)

We do hope to look further next SaB stage, very nice job.

I think for next SaB stage, Anet could include 1 mini-pet to be exchangable per bauble bubles. (Anet released SaB-mini-pets pack, so doing SaB farming, you could buy 1 by 1 sab-mini-pet separated too with 50 B.Bubble rate exchange too? So acquiring all 3 mini-pets would require like 150 B.Bubbles)

Only 1 sincerely request to be taken heartly, allow us to cut the video scenes.
Its very annoying when we are farming bubbles and have to keep seeing over and over the videos.
Thanks.

Josh Foreman.8250:

JanoRis.8703:

Questions:

2. Are you planning on limiting the farming? With the team points? If so, will you increase the drop chance or make the drop chance increase with the team score? Cause completing the whole dungeon as good as possible, with a drop chest of 1 skin in 50 chests will make the new skins extremly rare.
Especially if they can also drop the missing super skins, since that would increase the Itempool way higher than the current SAB chest pool is.

2. We haven’t hashed out any of the details about that yet. Our team is currently spread around other teams for a bit before we get back onto SAB. (Several of us are working on game wide bugs.) I personally want to tie points into drop rate, but we will have to weigh all the pros and cons of whatever system we go with.

Please don’t tie a specific playstyle to rewards.

Sometimes people have fun by doing things very quickly. There is nothing wrong with that.
Sometimes people have fun by exploring every little area. There is nothing wrong with that.
Sometimes people have fun by taking stupid screenshots. There isn’t anything wrong with that either.

Right now, anyone can hop into SAB, pick how they want to play and go for it. Want to grab all the baubles? Sure! Want all the achivements? Go for it! Want to grab the boss chest and get out? You can do it! Want to find the stupidest looking monkey? It’s easy (they’re all hilarious)!

Tying team score into drop rates is privileging a one playstyle over all the others. It would make SAB less accessible, and less fun. I don’t usually want to follow a checklist in my leisure time, and tying a score (of any kind) into rewards means punishing me every time I don’t follow the checklist used to calculate the score.

Josh Foreman.8250:

1. I’m almost certain they will be like every other piece of temporary content. Gone when the event is over.

2. Yet to be determined.

3. Probably not. See answer 1.

In reply to #1.
I worked and got all the skins from SAB. I would love to have all the old skins back next time. Why do future GW2 players have to have the old skins withheld because they were no playing back when I was playing? I really do not understand the point. You could say “You will feel so much more special since you will be the only ones with those”. So? Why should someone’s future warrior not get a 8bit greatsword to make me feel special.

Back to the topic of time-limited skins and the prestige behind it. Why not have all current skins have a unikittenfect (say, pixelated brushes when swinging or sparkles)? Moto will still offer the same skills currently available once world 2 releases, but those skins would lack the uniqueness. Only skins acquired as a reward (rare instead of masterwork) would have the same effect.

I’m all for prestige items if the terms are appropriate. With SAB being a reoccuring event (and eventually permanent), you cannot take away rewards. Living Story, a one-time event, will eventually disappear leaving Fused weapon skins to be sought after. Skins from the Hall of Monuments are prestige as well. It shows your status. You were “here” during “this event,” so here is a reward for it. With SAB becoming permanent, it should offer permanent rewards.

While I agree that the prestige factor is a huge force in the game economy, I do not see the logic in permanently removing the current SAB skins.

If i see a shiny prestige item that I like, only to learn there is 100% no way to get it, I will have no inclination to do anything as an economic actor. There has to actually be a chance, no matter how slim, that I can get a prestige item for it to motivate me to spend money or time and otherwise participate in the economy.

Legendaries are a good example. I will probably never get one, but since it is technically possible, I assign worth to all the items/tokens/recipes/farming methods that go into making one. This creates value, and value creates an economy.