Guild Wars 2

One Shot techniques like… Mai Trin’s shadowstep onto a Zerker Geared Ele sucks bawls… Full health to no health in one shot with no Death Penalty… No way to avoid it, cause it’s not predictable

I take that back… You can predict it, she points in front of herself slowly… HOWEVER it is completely undodgeable…

She seems to target people who are farthest from the rest of the group so stick together.

:S Otherwise, you may just need to retrait. If a glass cannon ranger went in there and kept dying, then obviously he needs to change his build.

Why should I be forced to change my build? Also hasn’t ArenaNet put out that they don’t like One Shot mechanics that can’t be dodged?

You aren’t forced to change your build. Just circle her 1.5 times her cleave range.

You’ll eat the AE electric attack but that’ll do hardly any damage.

This is how the fight is intended to go. Being max range means you’re playing wrong.

I will attempt to stay closer next time to see if that helps…

Drayven.6408:

One Shot techniques like… Mai Trin’s shadowstep onto a Zerker Geared Ele sucks bawls… Full health to no health in one shot with no Death Penalty… No way to avoid it, cause it’s not predictable

i suffer the same illness, from 16k to 0hp and cant dodge, what is the intention of this? i refuse to change my gears and build. this is no matter of my skill and my reaction time, is just another Random luck 1 hit kill that anet refuse to stop.

Refusing to retrait/swap weapons/use different armour for a dungeon is like saying “I need to get from Los Angeles to London, but I refuse to buy a plane ticket. Why won’t you let me use my horse to get there?”

You were given 5 trait lines and 70 points to spend anywhere you like for a reason. You were given at least half a dozen weapons which you can swap around before going into the fight for a reason. You can swap out your skills anytime before engaging in combat for a reason.

If you are dying over and over again and the team wipes trying to res you, the problem is not the dungeon. The problem is you.

Drayven.6408:

Why should I be forced to change my build? Also hasn’t ArenaNet put out that they don’t like One Shot mechanics that can’t be dodged?

It’s true that they said they wanted to change fights so that bosses don’t one shot you. The only problem is that it’s very likely that they had started working on this dungeon before they said that.

It’s not a one-hit on my non-zerk geared characters. Maybe it’s your gear, not the boss. In my group there was a guy dying all the time to the beams, while I could just run through them.

Furthermore all damage can be avoided by proper movement and dodge.

zeromius.1604:

Drayven.6408:

Why should I be forced to change my build? Also hasn’t ArenaNet put out that they don’t like One Shot mechanics that can’t be dodged?

It’s true that they said they wanted to change fights so that bosses don’t one shot you. The only problem is that it’s very likely that they had started working on this dungeon before they said that.

As it stands, this dungeon is NOT balanced around zerkers for once. Only zerkers get one-shots.

marnick.4305:

It’s not a one-hit on my non-zerk geared characters. Maybe it’s your gear, not the boss. In my group there was a guy dying all the time to the beams, while I could just run through them.

Furthermore all damage can be avoided by proper movement and dodge.

her shadow shot is undodgeable

They can not promise bosses wont 1 shot players because if someone would unequip all his gear and go fight a boss he would still get 1 shot.
Having no thoughness or vitality will get some players 1 shot as well.
What would be the point of vitality and thoughness stats if you don’t need those anywhere in the game..
You can’t just run full berserker anywhere and expect not to get damage.

Maybe, just maybe, dear Mai is trying to tell you that going all zerker isn’t the smartest thing to do. Everyone in my party has some form of a defensive stat worked into their build. No one got oneshotted by dear Mai.
Instead of complaining about getting oneshotted in a high risk/high reward set, you should reconsider your statchoices.

And keep in mind, this doesn’t mean you have to start stacking vitality/toughness to the maximum. It’s about finding a balance between your defensive and offensive abilities.

And the shot can be blocked. Haven’t tried reflecting it.

Siofra Crumble.2098:

Maybe, just maybe, dear Mai is trying to tell you that going all zerker isn’t the smartest thing to do. Everyone in my party has some form of a defensive stat worked into their build. No one got oneshotted by dear Mai.
Instead of complaining about getting oneshotted in a high risk/high reward set, you should reconsider your statchoices.

And keep in mind, this doesn’t mean you have to start stacking vitality/toughness to the maximum. It’s about finding a balance between your defensive and offensive abilities.

And the shot can be blocked. Haven’t tried reflecting it.

You make a really good point. I think it’s not just the gear but also the build and skills of the group as a whole. Condition removal, damage negation, and damage avoidance (through dodges) all contribute to character survival.

I agree with siofra. Don’t run around with a fixed build. If you don’t adapt to situations you will always be a mediocre gamer and you will always complain about “hard” dungeons.

Back up for a moment here. You’re running the squishiest profession with the squishiest stats, and you complain about things killing you?

Mesmer are able to dodge that attack if they are traited for it. Mesmers can summon clone on dodge and in this case you can leave a clone that Mai trin will port to but it is hard to predict when you will be the target, also teleporting away works fine too. All of the mesmers above I recommend to spam clones so group will have a higher chance to survive the shadowstep, but dont take more than one mesmer inside, in that case she will never get lured into electric bomb fields.

lcpdragonslayer.7895:

Refusing to retrait/swap weapons/use different armour for a dungeon is like saying “I need to get from Los Angeles to London, but I refuse to buy a plane ticket. Why won’t you let me use my horse to get there?”

You were given 5 trait lines and 70 points to spend anywhere you like for a reason. You were given at least half a dozen weapons which you can swap around before going into the fight for a reason. You can swap out your skills anytime before engaging in combat for a reason.

If you are dying over and over again and the team wipes trying to res you, the problem is not the dungeon. The problem is you.

No, no it is not like that.

It’s like wanting to fly from New York the LA, but getting told that you can only use one air line and can only fly coach to get there. It’s an arbitrary and hidden limit that forces players to have a set of armor for every trait combination in order to enjoy the game to it’s fullest.

zeromius.1604:

You make a really good point. I think it’s not just the gear but also the build and skills of the group as a whole. Condition removal, damage negation, and damage avoidance (through dodges) all contribute to character survival.

Thank you. And yes, organising your group definitely matters in this dungeon.
I’m really happy with this “evolution” this dungeon tries to bring and I only hope people will start seeing the benefit of “deeper” (lack of better term really, no offence intended) builds and even start thinking about team builds, which was a big deal in Gw1. We might see more people looking into how to support their party or control the enemies to ensure the dungeon run can be completed without anyone ending up defeated.
I also realize this is harder to achieve if you haven’t got a steady guildgroup backing up the idea and actively help working on the teambuild.

The counter argument the full berserker fans will bring is time.
If you cut down on DPS, you are slowing the party down. I can’t help but laugh at that argument. An organised -and balanced- group really won’t go any slower then a full berserkers group. And even if they do, it’ll come down to mere minutes.

Kanako Davis.5364:

I agree with siofra. Don’t run around with a fixed build. If you don’t adapt to situations you will always be a mediocre gamer and you will always complain about “hard” dungeons.

While I agree with your sentiments, I’d like to point out that it shouldn’t require retraiting every time you wish to adapt.
One thing I remember Arenanet stated before release was that it was the intention that every class could assume multiple roles, on the fly. This little fact made me especially interested in Gw2, for the simple fact I love playing jack of all trades characters.
As far as I’m concerned, they are closing in on achieving that goal.

It took me months of experimenting and many patches to get my engineer to the point of being able to crank out superb control, good damage, decent support and enough survival to hold my own (for a while) in the rare instances when our guardian needs to back down from the fight. I just always felt the engineers best suited role was control and filling up the gaps in the party. (That’s not to say engineers can’t focus on other roles). As it stands now, certain classes will always out-damage me or out-support me if that’s their focus.
But that’s okay, my focus is controlling the fight and no-one will outshine me there.
Filling the gaps left in the party on other departments next to my control is a really satisfying way of playing, for me.

I have no idea clue how to achieve the same with other classes and I generally tend to play mediocre at best with other classes. But I’ve strayed far enough from the point I’m trying to make, which actually is relevant to the topic at hand.
There is one thing I learned that can be applied to all classes:
Going all out on one (and any) statcombo (and therefore direction) is very rarely a good idea.

To be crystal clear, I’m not saying that a one statcombo build is bad by nature, but just that you might be shooting yourself in the foot in some cases.
Elementalist for example has so many great support options I tend to scratch my head as to why anyone would go full zerker instead of partial zerker and filling the rest up with another statcombo that would compliment those particular skills.

That’s pretty much my opinion on the whole argument, my apologies for the wall of text and any grammar or spelling mistakes that will no doubt be present.

JungleNin.8379:

lcpdragonslayer.7895:

Refusing to retrait/swap weapons/use different armour for a dungeon is like saying “I need to get from Los Angeles to London, but I refuse to buy a plane ticket. Why won’t you let me use my horse to get there?”

You were given 5 trait lines and 70 points to spend anywhere you like for a reason. You were given at least half a dozen weapons which you can swap around before going into the fight for a reason. You can swap out your skills anytime before engaging in combat for a reason.

If you are dying over and over again and the team wipes trying to res you, the problem is not the dungeon. The problem is you.

No, no it is not like that.

It’s like wanting to fly from New York the LA, but getting told that you can only use one air line and can only fly coach to get there. It’s an arbitrary and hidden limit that forces players to have a set of armor for every trait combination in order to enjoy the game to it’s fullest.

It’s one build that’s limited: Full zerker. Not every build but full bunker builds. This is one single temporary dungeon where one build doesn’t work as well. It sounds more like you’re upset because that one build happens to be yours.

You can see it comming, and if you dont want to retrait (which i can understand) then you will have to use different utility skills.
Elementalist has quite a few cooldowns to help avoid or mitigate damage.

Learn the fight, and change utility skills accordingly, and it should be more then possible.

WereDragon.6083:

marnick.4305:

It’s not a one-hit on my non-zerk geared characters. Maybe it’s your gear, not the boss. In my group there was a guy dying all the time to the beams, while I could just run through them.

Furthermore all damage can be avoided by proper movement and dodge.

her shadow shot is undodgeable

and yet I dodged it every single time once I got it. One of us is wrong. Guess who.

I’m a dungeon noob. And I want at least a few of the achievements. And because it is temporary I’ll need to try this now while still in the game. Willing to retrait – this does not cost that much.

Also maybe willing to buy a different set of green(masterwork armor) but nothing more expensive… because I’m not a dungeon farmer and don’t have much gold(and want to save the little gold I have). The main armor I have is more focused on damage(berserker).

“Just go and use different armor” is easier said than done – if everyone expects you to have a full exo set of every armor stats type…

Not everyone has that much gold and money – because a lot of non-dungeon players are doing this dungeon(the first time doing a dungeon) because they want the temporary achievements – they can’t just wait and train and do it later when they are ready and maybe have more equip.

Siofra Crumble.2098:

The counter argument the full berserker fans will bring is time.
If you cut down on DPS, you are slowing the party down. I can’t help but laugh at that argument. An organised -and balanced- group really won’t go any slower then a full berserkers group. And even if they do, it’ll come down to mere minutes.

Let’s not skip the fact that a zerker on the ground does less dps than wayfarer geared MF leeches.

The problem with adapting builds is how much of it is tied into worn gear.

This means you have to carry a second or third gear set, taking up maybe 12 inventory or bank slots.

It is silly to say that a boss cannot one shot you because you chose to go full zerk on a profession with the lowest base stat in the game. The thing is if the boss did like 20k-30k damage on someone with 3000 toughness then yeah that is a problem. But I don’t see it as a problem if they do like 16k damage to someone with <1900 toughness and low hp.

That kind of damage output suggests the boss has at least 5400 power.

digiowl.9620:

The problem with adapting builds is how much of it is tied into worn gear.

This means you have to carry a second or third gear set, taking up maybe 12 inventory or bank slots.

Someone who has only a zerker sets simply knows he’s not properly equipped for a whole lot of content. That’s not necessarily true for other sets.

marnick.4305:

zeromius.1604:

Drayven.6408:

Why should I be forced to change my build? Also hasn’t ArenaNet put out that they don’t like One Shot mechanics that can’t be dodged?

It’s true that they said they wanted to change fights so that bosses don’t one shot you. The only problem is that it’s very likely that they had started working on this dungeon before they said that.

As it stands, this dungeon is NOT balanced around zerkers for once. Only zerkers get one-shots.

Good.

Luthan.5236:

I’m a dungeon noob. And I want at least a few of the achievements. And because it is temporary I’ll need to try this now while still in the game. Willing to retrait – this does not cost that much.

Also maybe willing to buy a different set of green(masterwork armor) but nothing more expensive… because I’m not a dungeon farmer and don’t have much gold(and want to save the little gold I have). The main armor I have is more focused on damage(berserker).

“Just go and use different armor” is easier said than done – if everyone expects you to have a full exo set of every armor stats type…

Not everyone has that much gold and money – because a lot of non-dungeon players are doing this dungeon(the first time doing a dungeon) because they want the temporary achievements – they can’t just wait and train and do it later when they are ready and maybe have more equip.

This mindset is what is wrong with our society these days. Expecting to be able to participate and do things without the effort or resources. Feeling entitled to a reward and achievement without doing what is necessary to earn it. I’m not trying to put you down for having little gold. I’m simply pointing out that if you don’t have a mitt, you can’t play baseball.

I agree that the temporary nature of this dungeon is stupid, but that’s beside my point. If you want to do challenging content, whether it’s a permanent or temporary dungeon, it’s a dungeon none the less. Going in with green gear and expecting to clear it easily is silly. Declaring one’s self as a “non-dungeon-farmer” as if this is a lifestyle that should be catered to, is silly. There are countless ways to make money in this game. All it takes is time. MMOs by their very nature require a large time investment. If you can’t make that investment, then maybe it’s not for you.

By the way, I know many people with full time jobs and families that have no trouble getting gear and gold. My friend has two daughters, a full time job, and still finds the time to lead a successful raiding guild in WoW. He got his legendary (GW2) in his spare time too.

Well we are talking about the temporary content… not about an ultra hard permanent dungeon. Since it also is made for new players(otherwise they would NOT upscale) you can’t expext everyone to have the best equipment – or are there exotics for level 1 chars?

It’s ArenaNet who are tellling us “yes it’s okay for noobs and new players with not the best equipment to go there – even levels 1 with white equip”. Otherwise they would have set a hard restriction to level 80 and not upscaling(so you can’t even enter when lower than 80).

Here is my thought and advice about the Aether Retreat dungeon:
1. Mind your distance from Mai when she’s about to use her lightning bullet shot (she’s clearly aim at the furthest player away from her)
2. I’ve seen players try to find a safe spot to stand in like in the old Snowbind Fractal, don’t bother, Anet made sure that will never happen in this dungeon.
3. After some testings, your best defense against her lightning bullet shot is Aegis (or any form of block), invulnerable, projectile block (such as Elementalist’s Swirling Winds), reflect also works, but not ideal because it will teleport you right in front of her.
4. My favorite point, this dungeon is not about “more damage is better”, most zerker I’ve seen died halfway through the fight, so I think it’s better to be tanky. I am a full bunker Elementalist ( 56% crit dmg and fury as my offensive stat to balance the build) not the greatest dmg dealer, but I lived through all of the fights, her lightning bullet shot takes away 30-50% of my health depends on my dodge and protection boon)
P.S: oh, and the cannon phase as well, you will need the extra vitality and toughness in case you cant dodge in time, take Signet of Air to run faster in this phase.
5. An advice as a fellow Elementalist, don’t stuck with a fixed set of weapon or armor, you are limiting your Elementalist’s potential if you keep that mindset. Instead have several set of armors to be more flexible in term of stat, you don’t have to change your trait if you don’t want to. I have 5 full set of exotic armors (MF, Zerker, Soldier, Rampager, Carrion) and on my way to craft my 6th set. Also practice all off Elementalist’s weapon set, and change them based on what you think is the best for the current situation. Elementalist’s strength is being a jack of all trade, so think about it.

marnick.4305:

Let’s not skip the fact that a zerker on the ground does less dps than wayfarer geared MF leeches.

Oh, but they never go down. They have inhumane reflexes and are able to negate any incoming damage. Without error. Simply put, they’ve achieved ascension and risen above us mere mortals.
Or at least, that’s what the people on the opposite end of the argument are trying to make me believe.

digiowl.9620:

The problem with adapting builds is how much of it is tied into worn gear.

This means you have to carry a second or third gear set, taking up maybe 12 inventory or bank slots.

Yes, that’s true. See attachment. But that’s not that big of an issue, is it?
Exotic gear is fairly easy to come by and requires just a little patience.
The same counts for saving up cash to craft or buy bigger bags.
But I can understand why that fact would bother you if you have a desire for a legendary or if you are a severe altaholic .

Drayven.6408:

Why should I be forced to change my build? Also hasn’t ArenaNet put out that they don’t like One Shot mechanics that can’t be dodged?

Not calling this player out, but this type of attitude is depressing. Zerker gear is MENT to give you the most DPS with a limited amount of survivability It is not a one shot mechanic, is is a mechanic that is designed to, for once in pve, allow other armor stat combos to be very effective.

As a WvW player, I carry 2 sets or armor already. My zerker pve armor, and my knights, ascended WvW armor. This was the first dungeon I had to switch to knights and could not face roll with my great sword. It was refreshing to use my LB or rifle and actually know my toughness helped me at the end.

Don’t forget… its not a one man show. you do have 4 other players that have the ability to get you out of a downed state. Also think of it if they made the boss with low HP so a tank could do it AND deal no damage so a glass cannon can do it…. your left with a lame dungeon that you can do in your sleep. Don’t forget that being downed is part of the game its not “being dead” so one shots still do not exist.

I beat this dungeon with a full team of zerkers. We did have issues. We wiped multiple times at the lasers then again at the final boss. But none of us knew any of the mechanics and had to figure them all out. Once we knew, things got better and we adapted our strategy. I think if we went a second time in would have gone much better. We beat it none the less, so it can be done with all zerkers.

Meh, my full zerker war buddy didn’t get one shot by it. Went to like 1% health, but not one shot. My bunker guardian was pretty much in similar situation., something like 10% health. And that’s IF either of us got hit, since our entire group managed to avoid that most of the time.

3 attempts at the final boss with mostly pug group completely new to the dungeon. First attempt wipe at first cannon. 2nd attempt wipe at third cannon. 3rd attempt completely smooth. No one died to shadowstep. I think the problem here is less builds or abilities or whatever, but player skill.

Imo, it’s not about whether it’s possible to complete with a full zerker set or not, as I’m sure it is. It’s about whether you should go full zerker and disregard other options.

As long as you dodge right after she teleports you can live.

The glass cannon build that has always been meant to have a high risk/high reward runs the risk of being 1 shot?

Oh no, what horror

Doesn’t one shot my ele, try having some survivability. We have on demand protection, just cast it when she points at you.

Geez its not like we had to swap our armor for certain fights in WoW either
*cough*Naxx*cough*

kishter.9578:

Drayven.6408:

One Shot techniques like… Mai Trin’s shadowstep onto a Zerker Geared Ele sucks bawls… Full health to no health in one shot with no Death Penalty… No way to avoid it, cause it’s not predictable

i suffer the same illness, from 16k to 0hp and cant dodge, what is the intention of this? i refuse to change my gears and build. this is no matter of my skill and my reaction time, is just another Random luck 1 hit kill that anet refuse to stop.

You sound like a petulant child, Zerker builds should never have been the go to build for all PvE content. THAT is what you should be mad at ANet for.

They need to change all the dungeons so that you have to run some survivability to get through, DPS Wars 2 gets old fast.

boondocksaint.6529:

Drayven.6408:

Why should I be forced to change my build? Also hasn’t ArenaNet put out that they don’t like One Shot mechanics that can’t be dodged?

Not calling this player out, but this type of attitude is depressing. Zerker gear is MENT to give you the most DPS with a limited amount of survivability It is not a one shot mechanic, is is a mechanic that is designed to, for once in pve, allow other armor stat combos to be very effective.

As a WvW player, I carry 2 sets or armor already. My zerker pve armor, and my knights, ascended WvW armor. This was the first dungeon I had to switch to knights and could not face roll with my great sword. It was refreshing to use my LB or rifle and actually know my toughness helped me at the end.

That would be fine, IF it was actually damage like that, that was any sort of problem in this dungeon… It’s not. Toughness doesnt help any against a golem pulling you through a wall, stuns and camps you until you’re dead… Let’s have a look at ranger for a second… We’ll go knights as you say… We get ~18582 health… With a ~25% damage reduction from that toughness… This, by going full defensive traits… Now, walls do ~10k with this… meaning you’re still dead if two walls hit you… Now… The first wall, you’ll get pulled through by a golem… Rangers only have one source of stability, and that’s our elite… While it does give 20seconds of it, it’s a 120s CD so nothing that can be chained… Meaning that popping it the first time you need to get on boxes, means that sure you wont be pulled that time, but you will be pulled the next, and then what do you do? Well if you’re pulled through a wall, it’s GG you’re dead… If you’re lucky and not get pulled through one, you get stunned, which you have to use LF to get out of or you’ll be hit by a wall… Hopefully, you’ll be standing in a direction where your LF doesnt take you through a wall… So that’s twice you have to actually be lucky in a row, to not get oneshotted, and the next time it happens, you’re dead because you’ve now used every trick you HAVE of avoiding this… Not all classes are warriors with five frigging stability sources, four of which have relatively low CD… Had I had that many stability sources, pulling would be no problem, but alas, no…