Guild Wars 2

signahead.7281:

I think you’re confusing dialog and story. Even if no one says anything, Mai’s capture is a huge part of the story.

True, I suppose. But it is nothing you need to actually see or miss out on if you don’t manage to complete the dungeon.
It is basically: Defeat the boss. End of dungeon.

And since he quite clearly is fully aware about this, he doesn’t really miss out on any of the story.

If not I am sure we can find a youtube-video that shows that brief second of “capture”.

Whether or not one finishes the story, that’s not the real issue here. Story is nice to have, but it’s optional content. The real issue is the fact that some people are unable to learn the game’s mechanics, or use them effectively. This doesn’t necessarily mean a player isn’t smart or is unskilled. There could be physical handicaps that prevent someone from having the manual dexterity to play the game. Or color blindness that makes the red circles harder to see.

But with that said, in order for it to be a challenge, it’s a given that some people may not be able to complete it. It shouldn’t mean Anet has to make it “easy mode”, or make different modes to satisfy a small portion of the playerbase. Challenging content is challenging.

On a side note, I would personally love to have seen a Clock Tower type puzzle added to the AR dungeon. That would make this dungeon the best there ever was.

lordkrall.7241:

signahead.7281:

I think you’re confusing dialog and story. Even if no one says anything, Mai’s capture is a huge part of the story.

True, I suppose. But it is nothing you need to actually see or miss out on if you don’t manage to complete the dungeon.
It is basically: Defeat the boss. End of dungeon.

And since he quite clearly is fully aware about this, he doesn’t really miss out on any of the story.

If not I am sure we can find a youtube-video that shows that brief second of “capture”.

Are you saying that capturing Mai is the same as knowing that someone else captured her? Because personally, I would rather capture her myself. That difference between experiencing the story and hearing about it is what I imagine when I hear someone talk about “missing out on the story”.

Personally, I like the new dungeon, especially Frizz’s encounter. But it bothers me that it is a key part of the Dragon Bash/Sky Pirates story, especially since the non-story parts of these events were so grindy and boring.

Like I mentioned above, when my guild ran it this weekend, 20 people (out of the 30 who participated in the run) gave up after 3 hours of trying. The two groups who succeeded took more than four hours.

Sure, some of them will come back and try it again. And we’ll help the guildies who need it (even when it means running them through one at a time, because hey…we like them and the dungeon really is fun). But a large chunk of my guild came away from the event thinking that the new content is either tedious or unachievable. Some of them even believe that participating in future stories is pointless because they won’t be able to play all the way to the end.

That mixture of frustration, distrust and boredom is a great recruiting tool for the Neverwinter chapter of our guild, but it’s not good for GW2.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Whether or not one finishes the story, that’s not the real issue here. Story is nice to have, but it’s optional content. The real issue is the fact that some people are unable to learn the game’s mechanics, or use them effectively. This doesn’t necessarily mean a player isn’t smart or is unskilled. There could be physical handicaps that prevent someone from having the manual dexterity to play the game. Or color blindness that makes the red circles harder to see.

But with that said, in order for it to be a challenge, it’s a given that some people may not be able to complete it. It shouldn’t mean Anet has to make it “easy mode”, or make different modes to satisfy a small portion of the playerbase. Challenging content is challenging.

On a side note, I would personally love to have seen a Clock Tower type puzzle added to the AR dungeon. That would make this dungeon the best there ever was.

“It’s optional” may be the worst description of a game I can imagine.

“So, how’s the new event?”
“It’s very optional.”
“Oh…wanna play Neverwinter?”

I much prefer games that are compelling and interesting. I’m pretty sure that I’m not alone. It’s great that ArenaNet has given players a highly challenging new dungeon. It’s an enjoyable and rewarding experience for many of the game’s players. But the way they tied it to the event’s main story left a lot of players out of the fun.

For you, story may not be an issue. But it is clearly an issue for many of the people who play the game. ArenaNet even made it a key selling point of the game (remember “this is MY story”?). That’s what makes this such an interesting hobby. It has a lot of facets that can appeal to a lot of different people. It sounds like you’re saying that your values and interests are the only ones that are important.

signahead.7281:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Whether or not one finishes the story, that’s not the real issue here. Story is nice to have, but it’s optional content. The real issue is the fact that some people are unable to learn the game’s mechanics, or use them effectively. This doesn’t necessarily mean a player isn’t smart or is unskilled. There could be physical handicaps that prevent someone from having the manual dexterity to play the game. Or color blindness that makes the red circles harder to see.

But with that said, in order for it to be a challenge, it’s a given that some people may not be able to complete it. It shouldn’t mean Anet has to make it “easy mode”, or make different modes to satisfy a small portion of the playerbase. Challenging content is challenging.

On a side note, I would personally love to have seen a Clock Tower type puzzle added to the AR dungeon. That would make this dungeon the best there ever was.

“It’s optional” may be the worst description of a game I can imagine.

“So, how’s the new event?”
“It’s very optional.”
“Oh…wanna play Neverwinter?”

I much prefer games that are compelling and interesting. I’m pretty sure that I’m not alone. It’s great that ArenaNet has given players a highly challenging new dungeon. It’s an enjoyable and rewarding experience for many of the game’s players. But the way they tied it to the event’s main story left a lot of players out of the fun.

For you, story may not be an issue. But it is clearly an issue for many of the people who play the game. ArenaNet even made it a key selling point of the game (remember “this is MY story”?). That’s what makes this such an interesting hobby. It has a lot of facets that can appeal to a lot of different people. It sounds like you’re saying that your values and interests are the only ones that are important.

Yes I remember “this is MY story”. The purpose of that was to kill the Elder Dragon. You are confusing the racial character’s Story Mode with the extra content/side stories Anet is providing.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

signahead.7281:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Whether or not one finishes the story, that’s not the real issue here. Story is nice to have, but it’s optional content. The real issue is the fact that some people are unable to learn the game’s mechanics, or use them effectively. This doesn’t necessarily mean a player isn’t smart or is unskilled. There could be physical handicaps that prevent someone from having the manual dexterity to play the game. Or color blindness that makes the red circles harder to see.

But with that said, in order for it to be a challenge, it’s a given that some people may not be able to complete it. It shouldn’t mean Anet has to make it “easy mode”, or make different modes to satisfy a small portion of the playerbase. Challenging content is challenging.

On a side note, I would personally love to have seen a Clock Tower type puzzle added to the AR dungeon. That would make this dungeon the best there ever was.

“It’s optional” may be the worst description of a game I can imagine.

“So, how’s the new event?”
“It’s very optional.”
“Oh…wanna play Neverwinter?”

I much prefer games that are compelling and interesting. I’m pretty sure that I’m not alone. It’s great that ArenaNet has given players a highly challenging new dungeon. It’s an enjoyable and rewarding experience for many of the game’s players. But the way they tied it to the event’s main story left a lot of players out of the fun.

For you, story may not be an issue. But it is clearly an issue for many of the people who play the game. ArenaNet even made it a key selling point of the game (remember “this is MY story”?). That’s what makes this such an interesting hobby. It has a lot of facets that can appeal to a lot of different people. It sounds like you’re saying that your values and interests are the only ones that are important.

Yes I remember “this is MY story”. The purpose of that was to kill the Elder Dragon. You are confusing the racial character’s Story Mode with the extra content/side stories Anet is providing.

Story didn’t stop being important when the personal story ended. I suspect you actually know this, even though you’re pretending that you don’t.

signahead.7281:

Story didn’t stop being important when the personal story ended. I suspect you actually know this, even though you’re pretending that you don’t.

Indeed, but that does NOT stop the fact that their talks about “your story” was specifically about the personal storyline.

The living story is quite clearly NOT about you, but rather about other people (such as Rox, Braham, Kiel, Marjory and so on.)

signahead.7281:

Story didn’t stop being important when the personal story ended. I suspect you actually know this, even though you’re pretending that you don’t.

Realize that the Personal Story was completely optional too. Of all my characters on my account, only one has finished the entire story arc. That’s my choice on how I want to play the game. I know that doesn’t mean the story isn’t important to other players. But if Anet made it a requirement to complete, then I could understand the calls for an “easy mode” to be made for the AR dungeon. Or should I say, an “easier mode”?

signahead.7281:

Are you saying that capturing Mai is the same as knowing that someone else captured her? Because personally, I would rather capture her myself. That difference between experiencing the story and hearing about it is what I imagine when I hear someone talk about “missing out on the story”.

Well, in your version of the story, your character was too weak to catch Mai Trin and had to rely on Kiel and the Lionguard to do that. I honestly don’t see the problem.
You can be the hero but that doesn’t mean you don’t have to earn
that status.

lordkrall.7241:

signahead.7281:

Story didn’t stop being important when the personal story ended. I suspect you actually know this, even though you’re pretending that you don’t.

Indeed, but that does NOT stop the fact that their talks about “your story” was specifically about the personal storyline.

The living story is quite clearly NOT about you, but rather about other people (such as Rox, Braham, Kiel, Marjory and so on.)

I’m having trouble taking this seriously. Of course the stories have other characters, otherwise they’d be awfully boring. And of course some of the characters are important to the story. But this is a role-playing game and player characters are still central to the story.

And sure, “This is MY story” may have been a line from the personal story, but it was also used to emphasize the importance of story in GW2. Those priorities probably didn’t change just because someone completed Arah.

Like I said to Smooth Penguin above, I think you know this but you’re pretending not to in the hopes that playing dumb will actually look like a convincing argument.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

signahead.7281:

Story didn’t stop being important when the personal story ended. I suspect you actually know this, even though you’re pretending that you don’t.

Realize that the Personal Story was completely optional too. Of all my characters on my account, only one has finished the entire story arc. That’s my choice on how I want to play the game. I know that doesn’t mean the story isn’t important to other players. But if Anet made it a requirement to complete, then I could understand the calls for an “easy mode” to be made for the AR dungeon. Or should I say, an “easier mode”?

For the Dragon Bash/Sky Pirates story, it is a requirement. Sure in a metaphysical sense, the entire game is optional, but then we’re back to the argument that “It’s optional” is a horribly unexciting description for a game.

Crovax.7854:

signahead.7281:

Are you saying that capturing Mai is the same as knowing that someone else captured her? Because personally, I would rather capture her myself. That difference between experiencing the story and hearing about it is what I imagine when I hear someone talk about “missing out on the story”.

Well, in your version of the story, your character was too weak to catch Mai Trin and had to rely on Kiel and the Lionguard to do that. I honestly don’t see the problem.
You can be the hero but that doesn’t mean you don’t have to earn
that status.

Does that really sound like a game you want to play? Judging from the other comments I’ve read here, I don’t think anyone else wants to play it either.

signahead.7281:

lordkrall.7241:

signahead.7281:

Story didn’t stop being important when the personal story ended. I suspect you actually know this, even though you’re pretending that you don’t.

Indeed, but that does NOT stop the fact that their talks about “your story” was specifically about the personal storyline.

The living story is quite clearly NOT about you, but rather about other people (such as Rox, Braham, Kiel, Marjory and so on.)

I’m having trouble taking this seriously. Of course the stories have other characters, otherwise they’d be awfully boring. And of course some of the characters are important to the story. But this is a role-playing game and player characters are still central to the story.

And sure, “This is MY story” may have been a line from the personal story, but it was also used to emphasize the importance of story in GW2. Those priorities probably didn’t change just because someone completed Arah.

Like I said to Smooth Penguin above, I think you know this but you’re pretending not to in the hopes that playing dumb will actually look like a convincing argument.

All in the eye of the beholder. The Personal Story is optional. Anet advertised the story line as deep and epic, but doesn’t force you do finish it if you choose not to.

Again, this isn’t about the story. It’s about the dungeon, and how some people aren’t able to complete it. And my opinion on this matter is that if you can’t complete it, I’m sorry, but that’s the way it is.

I can’t score 250K kills in WvW, but I’m not asking Anet to buff my damage output to kill faster. I can’t play 10 hours a day, but I’m not asking Anet to increase gold drops so I can make more money in a shorter time.

signahead.7281:

Does that really sound like a game you want to play? Judging from the other comments I’ve read here, I don’t think anyone else wants to play it either.

You make it sound as if that was the way it’s meant to be story wise.
No, it’s not but i was just referring to your comment about storytelling and the fact that you can’t complete the dungeon.
If you want to experience the complete story by beating Mai Trin and Horrik i suggest
you start reading some of the many many helpful posts containing strategies
for both bosses posted in this forums.

I agree, a proper toned down story version of this dungeon without achievements and
reward would have been nice but that’s the way it is now.
You better man up and start learning the mechanics.

Here my 3 step plan for guaranteed success:
Observe
Adapt
Overcome

Esplen.3940:

BrunoBRS.5178:

well, you can always roleplay as “the lionguard captured mai trin”, instead of “i captured mai trin”, since the dungeon itself doesn’t have much story, and the final story cutscene takes place outside of it (and isn’t even available).

And kiel gets all the credit for what you do. COUGHTRAHEARNEWITHBOOBSCOUGH

@BackToOP
Regardless, this dungeon is actually very easy and all of your complaints just sound like you whining for the sake of whining. It’s not as if there aren’t 40 threads about what’s wrong with this living story for this person and that person, that and you brought nothing new to the table.

The Goemm’s lab bug? Okay, there are people willing to port you there.

WvW Jp? If you hate dying THAT much, just don’t do it. You don’t NEED to 100% it, and if you do, like psuedo-OCD kicking in, then you’d just do it without complaint.

The dungeon is actually really refreshing. Coming from a zerk Mesmer, I have actually found a reason to change up my build (actually, lack thereof in my case specifically).

Zerking in this dungeon is very, very bad. In fact, I run a spinoff of condi-zerk so I still have no defense, yet I’m one of the tankiest people in all the groups that I run. Of course, I still prefer to have a Guardian in the group just so that Mai is easier, but the dungeon is a SKILL dungeon, not a DAMAGE dungeon. You should be willing to take 1-2 hours for each run (it can go by relatively fast and be ~30-45 minutes, but don’t expect that). It’s better to take it slow and not die than to try and rush it like everything else and die. That’s one of the great things about this dungeon. It punishes you for zerking. Yes, I agree the first 8 hours of me inside the dungeon were painful, but once I started to get the hang of it, it became more and more FUN and EASY. And no, those 8 hours weren’t just 8 hours of me wiping constantly, I finished it 3 times in those 8 hours, which is slow, but it was great practice.

This isn’t just a run and spank dungeon. It’s a dungeon where you need to practice and use your skill as an individual player to help the group proceed. (In the boss fights, you typically don’t res. That says something about the dungeon, but it’s because you’ll put yourself in danger if you try to res. Of course, during Mai and Horrik, you NEED to res, but you can’t res during the barrage.)

Hyperboles, hyperboles everywhere.

There is nothing that you need to really practice, this dungeon is same stuff as rest of GW aside from a couple gimmicky boss mechanics.

Crovax.7854:

No, it’s not but i was just referring to your comment about storytelling and the fact that you can’t complete the dungeon.

At this point, I’m pretty sure that you didn’t actually read my posts. Or maybe you’re confusing me with another poster. Please go back and try again.

Crovax.7854:

I agree, a proper toned down story version of this dungeon without achievements and
reward would have been nice but that’s the way it is now.

It also looks like you agree that this was a poor design decision. That’s why I’m speaking up. And I hope it’s a mistake that ArenaNet doesn’t make in the future.

@Crazylegsmurphy.6430 you are overestimating yourself , it is a L2P isue
Learn to dodge & to red tells which in this case are telegraphed to you.

You might have skipped Kholer 1 to many times.

signahead.7281:

Are you saying that capturing Mai is the same as knowing that someone else captured her? Because personally, I would rather capture her myself. That difference between experiencing the story and hearing about it is what I imagine when I hear someone talk about “missing out on the story”.

I was referring to this post. No need to be rude, especially if you can’t remember what you wrote yourself.

signahead.7281:

Crovax.7854:

I agree, a proper toned down story version of this dungeon without achievements and
reward would have been nice but that’s the way it is now.

It also looks like you agree that this was a poor design decision. That’s why I’m speaking up. And I hope it’s a mistake that ArenaNet doesn’t make in the future.

I indeed do agree with you on this, but i also realise that there is no point in complaining about the current content. That’s why i told you to just suck it up and improve your playstyle. “L2P” really gets old fast, so i hope they do it
differently for future updates and people like you won’t have to come
to the forums crying that they can’t beat a dungeon that requires actual thinking.
For now though, l2p. The dungeon is fine, if you can’t beat it, it’s your own fault
for not learning from your mistakes.

28 runs of the dungeon. I never came past frizz.
I know the thing to the last detail and am always the last one standing but then they pull and I am dead. Having something for stability ofc but on the long term it isnt enough.

So here even is a tip about doing frizz. Once phase 2 starts conentrate on one golem and kill it. Then equally go on both remaining golems. (Once the first is down another one comes). Ideally you kill the next golem and the 2nd instantly after and will then only have one golem to face in phase 3.

Still this doesnt make it doable.
Biggest problem seems more that the dungeon is for “everybody” and players that are scaled to 80 from 22 just dont cut it for this. That and the componation of lags etc cause instand wipe on phase 3.

The bad players argument doesnt really apply. Once you did this 1-2 times you know the drill and yet everyone keeps failing. 1- and 2 phase whitout anyone going down followed by instawipe after 20secs of phase 3. Thats it.

Thats no fun.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Again, this isn’t about the story. It’s about the dungeon, and how some people aren’t able to complete it. And my opinion on this matter is that if you can’t complete it, I’m sorry, but that’s the way it is.

Either that’s a straw man, or you’ve completely misread what I wrote. Or maybe both. Like I mentioned above, please go back and try again.

I am not arguing that the dungeon should be easier. I like its level of difficulty, and I especially like the encounter with Frizz.

What I don’t like is the way that the dungeon is linked to to the living story. In order to complete the story, you have to complete the dungeon and that locks a lot of players out of the story.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I can’t score 250K kills in WvW, but I’m not asking Anet to buff my damage output to kill faster. I can’t play 10 hours a day, but I’m not asking Anet to increase gold drops so I can make more money in a shorter time.

That’s not what I’m asking either. What I’m saying is that the story shouldn’t be linked to the dungeon.

To use your own analogy, the current story asks players to perform a very difficult task that not many players can’t complete, like killing 250,000 foes in WvW, in order reach the end. That’s a new thing for this game, and its something that seems to violate the designers’ publicly-stated design philosophy.

I’m arguing that this is a mistake, and asking that they don’t make it again in the future.

Can we stop complaining and just get the darn achievements? I mean seriously, if people were just actively looking to do the dungeon instead of complaining at every turn, most of them would be done with the achievements…

Doing 4-6 runs daily. So thats that right.

signahead.7281:

To use your own analogy, the current story asks players to perform a very difficult task that not many players can’t complete, like killing 250,000 foes in WvW, in order reach the end. That’s a new thing for this game, and its something that seems to violate the designers’ publicly-stated design philosophy.

I’m arguing that this is a mistake, and asking that they don’t make it again in the future.

broken analogy, tedious grind!= difficult but short dungeon

Esplen.3940:

Can we stop complaining and just get the darn achievements? I mean seriously, if people were just actively looking to do the dungeon instead of complaining at every turn, most of them would be done with the achievements…

nah that’s okay. keeps the baddies out of my pugs :>

Crovax.7854:

signahead.7281:

Are you saying that capturing Mai is the same as knowing that someone else captured her? Because personally, I would rather capture her myself. That difference between experiencing the story and hearing about it is what I imagine when I hear someone talk about “missing out on the story”.

I was referring to this post. No need to be rude, especially if you can’t remember what you wrote yourself.

OK. I can see how you made that assumption. I was trying to illustrate the difference between hearing about the story and experiencing it myself. And I was trying to do it in a way that empathized with someone who hadn’t completed the story.

This would be a better way to put it:

Are you saying that capturing Mai is the same as knowing that someone else captured her? I think that most people would rather capture her themselves. That difference between experiencing the story and hearing about it is what I imagine when I hear someone talk about “missing out on the story”.

I also apologize for being rude. I was frustrated because it looked like you were ignoring my point about the story and responding with a dismissive “L2P” argument. Like you say below, this gets old and frustrating very quickly, especially when it’s paired with silly things like “man up,” “suck it up” and “it’s your own fault”.

Crovax.7854:

I indeed do agree with you on this, but i also realise that there is no point in complaining about the current content. That’s why i told you to just suck it up and improve your playstyle. “L2P” really gets old fast, so i hope they do it
differently for future updates and people like you won’t have to come
to the forums crying that they can’t beat a dungeon that requires actual thinking.
For now though, l2p. The dungeon is fine, if you can’t beat it, it’s your own fault
for not learning from your mistakes.

I agree. The dungeon is fine. In fact, it’s challenging and fun. Like I said before, Frizz is a great encounter…maybe one of my favorites in GW2.

But the way it’s connected to the story really bothers me. It’s a departure from ArenaNet’s stated design philosophy, and I think that pointing that out is worthwhile.

Crovax.7854:

signahead.7281:

To use your own analogy, the current story asks players to perform a very difficult task that not many players can’t complete, like killing 250,000 foes in WvW, in order reach the end. That’s a new thing for this game, and its something that seems to violate the designers’ publicly-stated design philosophy.

I’m arguing that this is a mistake, and asking that they don’t make it again in the future.

broken analogy, tedious grind!= difficult but short dungeon

Analogies are never perfect, but this one still feels pretty solid.

Both the dungeon and the WvW achievement are things that many players can’t complete. If you have trouble understanding that, then please substitute another difficult achievement, like “Personal Space” or “Faster Than Light.”

We capture the bad guy (that’s all living story you need from the dungeon)

signahead.7281:

The achievements don’t really bother me, but the storyline does.

Last Saturday, our guild did a six-group run into the new dungeon. 30 players started, and after 4 hours, 10 of them finished. If the dungeon is a required portion of the story, then that potentially locks out 2/3 of our guild.

This bothers me alittle bit. I can see that the current story is different in
a sense that some of it is at the end of a dungeon but “locking people out”?
I don’t think so. Max level has always been a level playingfield, ascended aside
so the only thing differentiating your guildmembers from those, that completed
the dungeon is the actual player and not the game.
I won’t comment on uplevelled characters but that’s what many people
mean when they give you the usual l2p answer.

The way the dungeon is connected to the story surely is a matter of taste.
I personally see nothing wrong with the fact that some charcters are just not
up to the task of catching Mai and so Kiel has to do the job. It’s not like this is
blocking your progression in the overall story arch.

Crovax.7854:

Esplen.3940:

Can we stop complaining and just get the darn achievements? I mean seriously, if people were just actively looking to do the dungeon instead of complaining at every turn, most of them would be done with the achievements…

nah that’s okay. keeps the baddies out of my pugs :>

Who needs pugs when you can solo the dungeon?

signahead.7281:

The achievements don’t really bother me, but the storyline does.

Last Saturday, our guild did a six-group run into the new dungeon. 30 players started, and after 4 hours, 10 of them finished. If the dungeon is a required portion of the story, then that potentially locks out 2/3 of our guild.

This bothers me alittle bit. I can see that the current story is different in
a sense that some of it is at the end of a dungeon but “locking people out”?
I don’t think so. Max level has always been a level playingfield, ascended aside
so the only thing differentiating your guildmembers from those, that completed
the dungeon is the actual player and not the game.
I won’t comment on uplevelled characters but that’s what many people
mean when they give you the usual l2p answer.

The way the dungeon is connected to the story surely is a matter of taste.
I personally see nothing wrong with the fact that some charcters are just not
up to the task of catching Mai and so Kiel has to do the job. It’s not like this is
blocking your progression in the overall story arch.

signahead.7281:

Crovax.7854:

signahead.7281:

To use your own analogy, the current story asks players to perform a very difficult task that not many players can’t complete, like killing 250,000 foes in WvW, in order reach the end. That’s a new thing for this game, and its something that seems to violate the designers’ publicly-stated design philosophy.

I’m arguing that this is a mistake, and asking that they don’t make it again in the future.

broken analogy, tedious grind!= difficult but short dungeon

Analogies are never perfect, but this one still feels pretty solid.

Both the dungeon and the WvW achievement are things that many players can’t complete. If you have trouble understanding that, then please substitute another difficult achievement, like “Personal Space” or “Faster Than Light.”

The WvW achievement is time consuming at best and has nothing to do with skill.
The dungeon on the other hand can be completed in under an hour, compared to like,
what was it? 9 years for the yakslapper? I would compare it to the Mad King’s Clocktower, if that thing had an achievement ( i missed out on halloween last year).
From what i have heard it also was short but skill based.

Esplen.3940:

Who needs pugs when you can solo the dungeon?

Not as War/Thief though :<

signahead.7281:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Again, this isn’t about the story. It’s about the dungeon, and how some people aren’t able to complete it. And my opinion on this matter is that if you can’t complete it, I’m sorry, but that’s the way it is.

Either that’s a straw man, or you’ve completely misread what I wrote. Or maybe both. Like I mentioned above, please go back and try again.

I am not arguing that the dungeon should be easier. I like its level of difficulty, and I especially like the encounter with Frizz.

What I don’t like is the way that the dungeon is linked to to the living story. In order to complete the story, you have to complete the dungeon and that locks a lot of players out of the story.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I can’t score 250K kills in WvW, but I’m not asking Anet to buff my damage output to kill faster. I can’t play 10 hours a day, but I’m not asking Anet to increase gold drops so I can make more money in a shorter time.

That’s not what I’m asking either. What I’m saying is that the story shouldn’t be linked to the dungeon.

To use your own analogy, the current story asks players to perform a very difficult task that not many players can’t complete, like killing 250,000 foes in WvW, in order reach the end. That’s a new thing for this game, and its something that seems to violate the designers’ publicly-stated design philosophy.

I’m arguing that this is a mistake, and asking that they don’t make it again in the future.

I’m not addressing your concerns with those posts. I’m addressing the OP’s. He is sad that he can’t complete the story because he can’t do the dungeon. I’m saying the story doesn’t matter, so there’s no reason why Anet needs to make an “easy mode”. IF there were a requirement that a certain dungeon be completed, then Anet wouldn’t make it so challenging.

Now to address what you’re concerned about. It’s gonna be a similar answer, but hear me out. The story is optional. If you choose to continue with the story, you must do the dungeon. If you can’t complete it, the world isn’t over. Go on and do other things. But if it kills you so much that you “must” complete AR, then it’s just a matter of learning the game mechanics, and applying them to the challenges you face.

Also, the reason why there’s no “Story Mode” for AR is that it doesn’t tie into your Personal Story (and even that’s optional to do). All main dungeons in this game are tied to the story of Destiny’s Edge. AR is different, so it’s a stand alone.

lordkrall.7241:

Unless you stand still (or have virtually no vitality) you won’t die from the fire. You should be fully able to dodge/move away from it even if taking a hit or two.

Thats the big problem with that fight though, yeah one, two hits, not a problem. I can even survive many more than that. But first of all being on a class with no vigor means I have pretty much no reliable dodge, second it’s not the actual damage of the shots, it’s the godawfully long amount of time this ridiculous spamfest goes on. There’s absolutely no need for it to go on that long. I know exactly the part the OP is talking about because that’s the same part that has prevented me from completing this dungeon. Yes I could prob get on my guardian like everyone else and roll through it, but I’m sick of always having to fall back to the guard just to do content. The rest of this dungeon is amazing and I love it, but I’m not ever going to see the end of it and I hope they learned something from this. The molten dungeon was done brilliantly I just wish they applied that same thought and planning to the last boss in this one. 1 shot shennannigans do not equate to a fun, challenging time.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

lordkrall.7241:

Unless you stand still (or have virtually no vitality) you won’t die from the fire. You should be fully able to dodge/move away from it even if taking a hit or two.

Thats the big problem with that fight though, yeah one, two hits, not a problem. I can even survive many more than that. But first of all being on a class with no vigor means I have pretty much no reliable dodge, second it’s not the actual damage of the shots, it’s the godawfully long amount of time this ridiculous spamfest goes on. There’s absolutely no need for it to go on that long. I know exactly the part the OP is talking about because that’s the same part that has prevented me from completing this dungeon. Yes I could prob get on my guardian like everyone else and roll through it, but I’m sick of always having to fall back to the guard just to do content. The rest of this dungeon is amazing and I love it, but I’m not ever going to see the end of it and I hope they learned something from this. The molten dungeon was done brilliantly I just wish they applied that same thought and planning to the last boss in this one. 1 shot shennannigans do not equate to a fun, challenging time.

Everyone stack on a designated “lead runner” and run clockwise. Don’t cut the edges though. Keep swiftness up and you won’t have any problems at all. I have yet
to die to the barrages with this method.
You can’t just use the same tactic over and over again, expecting it
to magically work one time.

Observe
Adapt
Overcome

I cannot stress this enough…

Smooth Penguin.5294:

signahead.7281:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Again, this isn’t about the story. It’s about the dungeon, and how some people aren’t able to complete it. And my opinion on this matter is that if you can’t complete it, I’m sorry, but that’s the way it is.

Either that’s a straw man, or you’ve completely misread what I wrote. Or maybe both. Like I mentioned above, please go back and try again.

I am not arguing that the dungeon should be easier. I like its level of difficulty, and I especially like the encounter with Frizz.

What I don’t like is the way that the dungeon is linked to to the living story. In order to complete the story, you have to complete the dungeon and that locks a lot of players out of the story.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I can’t score 250K kills in WvW, but I’m not asking Anet to buff my damage output to kill faster. I can’t play 10 hours a day, but I’m not asking Anet to increase gold drops so I can make more money in a shorter time.

That’s not what I’m asking either. What I’m saying is that the story shouldn’t be linked to the dungeon.

To use your own analogy, the current story asks players to perform a very difficult task that not many players can’t complete, like killing 250,000 foes in WvW, in order reach the end. That’s a new thing for this game, and its something that seems to violate the designers’ publicly-stated design philosophy.

I’m arguing that this is a mistake, and asking that they don’t make it again in the future.

I’m not addressing your concerns with those posts. I’m addressing the OP’s. He is sad that he can’t complete the story because he can’t do the dungeon. I’m saying the story doesn’t matter, so there’s no reason why Anet needs to make an “easy mode”. IF there were a requirement that a certain dungeon be completed, then Anet wouldn’t make it so challenging.

Now to address what you’re concerned about. It’s gonna be a similar answer, but hear me out. The story is optional. If you choose to continue with the story, you must do the dungeon. If you can’t complete it, the world isn’t over. Go on and do other things. But if it kills you so much that you “must” complete AR, then it’s just a matter of learning the game mechanics, and applying them to the challenges you face.

Also, the reason why there’s no “Story Mode” for AR is that it doesn’t tie into your Personal Story (and even that’s optional to do). All main dungeons in this game are tied to the story of Destiny’s Edge. AR is different, so it’s a stand alone.

it seems you re a necro , sry to tell you but those are excuses , i play only a necro . In todays run i actually had to die cozz my pug ( guard, tief , warr, hunter ) died consinstantly on the barage , the problem is ppl run like headles chickes around & die or mismanage dodge. I stand still w8 for the circle to apear & walk out eazy as that ( most of the times there are safe spots ) if there is a problem i dodge out …. the fight is actualy dead boring . the only thing that you actualy need dodging is the teleport ( wich is telegraphed) so ….. im confused on where is the dificullty ??

As someone said observe & adapt, it sadens me to see we are so far in the game yet ppl still mismanage dodge or dont understand its power & as for now there arent fights ( team based not solo ) wich criple necro due to lack of vigor also DS is your friend.

ah yes it was Crovax

Or, if you are incapable of stacking [swiftness]. Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew which, coincidentally, does not stack with Vigor.

Crovax.7854:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

lordkrall.7241:

Unless you stand still (or have virtually no vitality) you won’t die from the fire. You should be fully able to dodge/move away from it even if taking a hit or two.

Thats the big problem with that fight though, yeah one, two hits, not a problem. I can even survive many more than that. But first of all being on a class with no vigor means I have pretty much no reliable dodge, second it’s not the actual damage of the shots, it’s the godawfully long amount of time this ridiculous spamfest goes on. There’s absolutely no need for it to go on that long. I know exactly the part the OP is talking about because that’s the same part that has prevented me from completing this dungeon. Yes I could prob get on my guardian like everyone else and roll through it, but I’m sick of always having to fall back to the guard just to do content. The rest of this dungeon is amazing and I love it, but I’m not ever going to see the end of it and I hope they learned something from this. The molten dungeon was done brilliantly I just wish they applied that same thought and planning to the last boss in this one. 1 shot shennannigans do not equate to a fun, challenging time.

Everyone stack on a designated “lead runner” and run clockwise. Don’t cut the edges though. Keep swiftness up and you won’t have any problems at all. I have yet
to die to the barrages with this method.
You can’t just use the same tactic over and over again, expecting it
to magically work one time.

Observe
Adapt
Overcome

I cannot stress this enough…

Just to point out, my pug team was all over the place, and we never died. It was much harder, since the red circles filled the floor. But even with this, we beat the end boss in under 15 minutes.

The points you stress are good. Mine is: Knowing game mechanics keeps you alive.

Akame.1073:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

signahead.7281:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Again, this isn’t about the story. It’s about the dungeon, and how some people aren’t able to complete it. And my opinion on this matter is that if you can’t complete it, I’m sorry, but that’s the way it is.

Either that’s a straw man, or you’ve completely misread what I wrote. Or maybe both. Like I mentioned above, please go back and try again.

I am not arguing that the dungeon should be easier. I like its level of difficulty, and I especially like the encounter with Frizz.

What I don’t like is the way that the dungeon is linked to to the living story. In order to complete the story, you have to complete the dungeon and that locks a lot of players out of the story.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I can’t score 250K kills in WvW, but I’m not asking Anet to buff my damage output to kill faster. I can’t play 10 hours a day, but I’m not asking Anet to increase gold drops so I can make more money in a shorter time.

That’s not what I’m asking either. What I’m saying is that the story shouldn’t be linked to the dungeon.

To use your own analogy, the current story asks players to perform a very difficult task that not many players can’t complete, like killing 250,000 foes in WvW, in order reach the end. That’s a new thing for this game, and its something that seems to violate the designers’ publicly-stated design philosophy.

I’m arguing that this is a mistake, and asking that they don’t make it again in the future.

I’m not addressing your concerns with those posts. I’m addressing the OP’s. He is sad that he can’t complete the story because he can’t do the dungeon. I’m saying the story doesn’t matter, so there’s no reason why Anet needs to make an “easy mode”. IF there were a requirement that a certain dungeon be completed, then Anet wouldn’t make it so challenging.

Now to address what you’re concerned about. It’s gonna be a similar answer, but hear me out. The story is optional. If you choose to continue with the story, you must do the dungeon. If you can’t complete it, the world isn’t over. Go on and do other things. But if it kills you so much that you “must” complete AR, then it’s just a matter of learning the game mechanics, and applying them to the challenges you face.

Also, the reason why there’s no “Story Mode” for AR is that it doesn’t tie into your Personal Story (and even that’s optional to do). All main dungeons in this game are tied to the story of Destiny’s Edge. AR is different, so it’s a stand alone.

it seems you re a necro , sry to tell you but those are excuses , i play only a necro . In todays run i actually had to die cozz my pug ( guard, tief , warr, hunter ) died consinstantly on the barage , the problem is ppl run like headles chickes around & die or mismanage dodge. I stand still w8 for the circle to apear & walk out eazy as that ( most of the times there are safe spots ) if there is a problem i dodge out …. the fight is actualy dead boring . the only thing that you actualy need dodging is the teleport ( wich is telegraphed) so ….. im confused on where is the dificullty ??

As someone said observe & adapt, it sadens me to see we are so far in the game yet ppl still mismanage dodge or dont understand its power & as for now there arent fights ( team based not solo ) wich criple necro due to lack of vigor also DS is your friend.

I think you’re responding to the wrong person. I stated that I’m a full Zerker Thief, with low Toughness and Vitality, and beat AR on my first and only try in 45 minutes to an hour. Only downed once by Mai.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just to point out, my pug team was all over the place, and we never died. It was much harder, since the red circles filled the floor. But even with this, we beat the end boss in under 15 minutes.

The points you stress are good. Mine is: Knowing game mechanics keeps you alive.

I was adressing Nay of the Ether.8913

Ah crap sry Smooth i made a mistake , my bad :P
was meant to be a response for @Nay of the Ether.8913

will send you a cake ingame for my mistake @Smooth Penguin.5294

Akame.1073:

the only thing that you actualy need dodging is the teleport ( wich is telegraphed) so ….. im confused on where is the dificullty ??

the teleport is telegraphed but cannot be dodged, only blocked or
in case you use blind, with a low chance missed. the lightning she throws at the group
however can be dodged and it is even telegraphed with an obvious spinning
animation.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’m not addressing your concerns with those posts. I’m addressing the OP’s. He is sad that he can’t complete the story because he can’t do the dungeon. I’m saying the story doesn’t matter, so there’s no reason why Anet needs to make an “easy mode”. IF there were a requirement that a certain dungeon be completed, then Anet wouldn’t make it so challenging.

That’s fair.

But I would argue that a two-step system would be better. One “easy mode” step to capture Mai, then a second step that is much more challenging. That keeps the story accessible.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Now to address what you’re concerned about. It’s gonna be a similar answer, but hear me out. The story is optional. If you choose to continue with the story, you must do the dungeon. If you can’t complete it, the world isn’t over. Go on and do other things. But if it kills you so much that you “must” complete AR, then it’s just a matter of learning the game mechanics, and applying them to the challenges you face.

Also, the reason why there’s no “Story Mode” for AR is that it doesn’t tie into your Personal Story (and even that’s optional to do). All main dungeons in this game are tied to the story of Destiny’s Edge. AR is different, so it’s a stand alone.

I think we’re talking past each other here. I agree that the story is optional, in the sense that there is still a lot to do in the game even if you don’t complete this particular story.

But if your goal is to keep a group of players, like a guild or a group of friends, interested in the game then I think the story is necessary. That’s doubly true for Dragon Bash and the Sky Pirates.

In a general sense, the story is necessary because many people play the game for the stories. A lot of them (but not all of them) aren’t particularly interested in dungeons. They may even actively avoid them. Putting the story into a dungeon, especially one this difficult, cuts them off from the part of the game that they enjoy. And if they don’t enjoy the game, then they go somewhere else.

I think this is especially true in GW2 because ArenNet has been pushing the story so heavily. In a lot of games, the story-oriented players who completed the personal story would have moved on by now. But they’ve stuck around because ArenaNet keeps giving them stories. If they don’t think those stories are accessible, then they go somewhere else.

That brings us to the Dragon Bash/Sky Pirates event. Aside from the story, this event has been especially grindy. To me, and to a lot the people I play with, grindy events are really, REALLY boring. So there was a lot riding on this particular story. For a lot of people I know, that story ended very badly, with a long attempt at a dungeon that mostly ended in failure.

We’re currently doing catch-up runs, to help every guildy who wants to complete the story do so. But there are people who went away pretty angry. I doubt that many will ragequit right now, but they don’t like the game as much today as they did before they visited the Aetherblade Pirates.

To a person who relies on ArenaNet to keep the game enjoyable for all of my friends, this story was a problem. It put a big, irritating obstacle between my friends and their fun. And now we’re struggling to overcome it. That’s very frustrating.

Crovax.7854:

Akame.1073:

the only thing that you actualy need dodging is the teleport ( wich is telegraphed) so ….. im confused on where is the dificullty ??

the teleport is telegraphed but cannot be dodged, only blocked or
in case you use blind, with a low chance missed. the lightning she throws at the group
however can be dodged and it is even telegraphed with an obvious spinning
animation.

it can be dodged but it require quite a nice timing.

Akame.1073:

Crovax.7854:

Akame.1073:

the only thing that you actualy need dodging is the teleport ( wich is telegraphed) so ….. im confused on where is the dificullty ??

the teleport is telegraphed but cannot be dodged, only blocked or
in case you use blind, with a low chance missed. the lightning she throws at the group
however can be dodged and it is even telegraphed with an obvious spinning
animation.

it can be dodged but it require quite a nice timing.

Doesn’t require that much timing. You see a projectile flying at you, and you roll. Of course, she’ll still shadowstep, but to stop that you have to block/reflect.

signahead.7281:

I think we’re talking past each other here. I agree that the story is optional, in the sense that there is still a lot to do in the game even if you don’t complete this particular story.

But if your goal is to keep a group of players, like a guild or a group of friends, interested in the game then I think the story is necessary. That’s doubly true for Dragon Bash and the Sky Pirates.

In a general sense, the story is necessary because many people play the game for the stories. A lot of them (but not all of them) aren’t particularly interested in dungeons. They may even actively avoid them. Putting the story into a dungeon, especially one this difficult, cuts them off from the part of the game that they enjoy. And if they don’t enjoy the game, then they go somewhere else.

I think this is especially true in GW2 because ArenNet has been pushing the story so heavily. In a lot of games, the story-oriented players who completed the personal story would have moved on by now. But they’ve stuck around because ArenaNet keeps giving them stories. If they don’t think those stories are accessible, then they go somewhere else.

That brings us to the Dragon Bash/Sky Pirates event. Aside from the story, this event has been especially grindy. To me, and to a lot the people I play with, grindy events are really, REALLY boring. So there was a lot riding on this particular story. For a lot of people I know, that story ended very badly, with a long attempt at a dungeon that mostly ended in failure.

We’re currently doing catch-up runs, to help every guildy who wants to complete the story do so. But there are people who went away pretty angry. I doubt that many will ragequit right now, but they don’t like the game as much today as they did before they visited the Aetherblade Pirates.

To a person who relies on ArenaNet to keep the game enjoyable for all of my friends, this story was a problem. It put a big, irritating obstacle between my friends and their fun. And now we’re struggling to overcome it. That’s very frustrating.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel.

While I don’t think the Living Story is the most amazing story telling I’ve ever seen, it sure is a lot more interesting than running around the game grinding out slayer achievements.

Not only that, but ANet has encouraged me to participate in every aspect of the story until the dungeon. I witnessed a murder, helped people to safety, tracked down the killer, defeated pirates, and got an email asking me to hunt down Mai.

The email never said, “Thanks for your help, but we will take it from here…” It said, come…capture the bad guy!

I’m now at what I’m assuming is the climax of the story, and I’m unable to progress. Sure, given enough time, I might try different builds, or even level a different character. I might try running it with a few different groups as well. If I had the time I would also run it a few more times for the achievements, and perhaps the chance at a monocle, so I can fight like a sir.

Unfortunately, I can’t. ANet is taking away the dungeon soon, and so as much as I would like to potentially spend hours, “manning up” I simply can’t afford the time right now.

So, in the end, I will be unable to see this story completed, I will miss achievements, and it has already made me think twice about how much effort I feel like dedicating to future Living Story content.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Second. Putting any achievement for a Living Story in the Eternal Battlegrounds JP is asinine. This JP is hard enough at the best of times let alone requiring more players to be in there.

It requires some patience and time, but Obsidian Sanctum it is not that hard. The new one was a pain for me because of camera positions. But that might just be me.

Sure it is annoying when people camping inside the WvW JPs. But usually the only stay at the entrance and there are rarely a lot of campers further down once you reach the dark zone.

If you find the JP too hard, roll a mesmer for it and/or run with a group and just wipe the few campers deeper down. The campers usually have zero skill, that’s why they camp. As people are currently running Obsidian Sanctum for the achievement it should be no problem to find a group that gets you through.

Some content has to be harder. Not everything should be for casual playing. You might miss some achievements on a personal story. If everyone could get every achievement like it has been, it would be bad. All people can get their PvE reward chest, but may not get all Achievements.

It is good that Anet is changing things here as long as they are not lucky based like the infamous “Crabtacular”, which was a huge fail.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Finally. The dungeon is ridiculous. I go from doing pretty well in PvE, to being insta-killed in this dungeon. I just spent three…yes, three hours with a group that has had little issues in the past doing dungeons, and we never did beat Mai.

Actually, the dungeon itself is quite easy once you understood the mechanics. Not like a mindless CoF run where people run with MF armor.

I got horrible wiped the first two times with a pug at the first boss over and over again until we gave up after over an hour.

Then I finally found a group with two guy who did it already a couple of times. Because of me and two other noobs it was not a smooth run. We got wiped two times at the end, until we understood the mechanics of the fight and could apply them to what we were doing.

Now I completed it once, understand the mechanics and I can get pugs through it, if they have at least some movement skills.

The achievements on the other hand are not easy. But hey, they are called achievements for a couple of reasons. I try to get them, if I can find a decent dungeon runner group that wants them as well.

If you are getting insta-killed over and over again, then you are doing something wrong and did not change things you as a group were doing. It takes a bit time to find out how the dungeons works.

Here are some pointers for your group:

To beat Mai, do not stand all at the same place and do not move a lot. There will be tons of circles in the second phase. Just distribute nicely. 4 people in each corner, one in the middle. And it just require a few steps not to get hit by the circles. If you are running and dodging like hell and group up there will be be more and more circles as they are targeted at individual players. Stay far away from each other, like the five dots on a dice and you will make it through in a couple of tries.

And for getting the shields of Mai down before that phase: stay close the her and move around. If you go to far away, she teleports and kills you one by one. And make sure you have a lot of group wide condition removal here. Then get her into the electric circles and when the shields a gone just DPS her.

The mechanics are just a bit different here. The thing with all dungeons is: you have to figure out the mechanics and this needs some tries. If you keep getting wiped, you are trying the same over and over again.

Just saiyan. I did it with 4 complete new people in a pug, completely randoms, to the dungeon, and we did in in an hour all while getting the 15 minute boss achievement and not wiping once. Clearly, this dungeon is not too hard, considering I’ve regularly been doing it with newbie pugs and having NO PROBLEMS.

There is definitely a skill level, and if you can’t get past it, well. It’s like not beating a point in Castlevania because you lack the skill, but in this case you can skip it, the story progresses, and we will eventually find our Dracula.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

While I don’t think the Living Story is the most amazing story telling I’ve ever seen, it sure is a lot more interesting than running around the game grinding out slayer achievements.

Not only that, but ANet has encouraged me to participate in every aspect of the story until the dungeon. I witnessed a murder, helped people to safety, tracked down the killer, defeated pirates, and got an email asking me to hunt down Mai.

The email never said, “Thanks for your help, but we will take it from here…” It said, come…capture the bad guy!

I’m now at what I’m assuming is the climax of the story, and I’m unable to progress. Sure, given enough time, I might try different builds, or even level a different character. I might try running it with a few different groups as well. If I had the time I would also run it a few more times for the achievements, and perhaps the chance at a monocle, so I can fight like a sir.

I agree, the whole “it’s not your story so it doesn’t matter if you don’t complete it” thing is a farcically irrelevant argument in their attempt to dismiss people who cannot, for whatever reason, actually see the entire story. That is the root problem and the only thing that needs to be “fixed”, people telling you it doesn’t matter if you see the story or that you need to L2P to play through the dungeon is just a smokescreen.

Of course it’s our story, otherwise why would these characters be seeking us out at every turn? I don’t know about you but Inspector Ellen Kiel has been seeking me out personally for help since I helped her with Canach in Southsun Cove. It is demonstrably our story: we are in just about every major scene, we talk to all the main characters and we do just about everything of note in the story.

Every story that our characters are involved in is our story just as much as our personal story is our story. If it’s not “our story” then why are we involved at all?

Esplen.3940:

Doesn’t require that much timing. You see a projectile flying at you, and you roll. Of course, she’ll still shadowstep, but to stop that you have to block/reflect.

are you sure? I’m mostly playing with guardian in AR so I sometimes have aegis (though I usually stand in/across the lightning fields to lure her, which strips any blocks), but I could swear I’ve dodged her without getting any damage at all. she might have shadowstepped, but the attack chain doesn’t start immediately, leaving enough time to move out of harms way.

I usually wait for her to raise her gun, and when the projectile appears, I start to dodge.

All I will say about this dungeon is that a little coordination goes quite a long ways here. People run around like chickens with their heads cut off on the boss fights and yes it is very tough. I ran this with a pug group and they did this exact thing. But we got our stuff together explained what to do and low and behold, we defeated the bosses. Maybe you have to change up some traits, maybe try a new weapon combo, but its just not as “impossible” as people claim it to be.

I remember raids where 1 person could cause the entire group to wipe, no exceptions. At least here you can solo (with practice) Frizz, and heck pretty much 3 or 4 man Mai. If you think about it, someone is down frequently so people are constantly trying to res them. It’s not often you have a full group going at it. But imagine if everyone tried to stick to a plan. Should make things pretty easy.

Oranisagu.3706:

Esplen.3940:

Doesn’t require that much timing. You see a projectile flying at you, and you roll. Of course, she’ll still shadowstep, but to stop that you have to block/reflect.

are you sure? I’m mostly playing with guardian in AR so I sometimes have aegis (though I usually stand in/across the lightning fields to lure her, which strips any blocks), but I could swear I’ve dodged her without getting any damage at all. she might have shadowstepped, but the attack chain doesn’t start immediately, leaving enough time to move out of harms way.

I usually wait for her to raise her gun, and when the projectile appears, I start to dodge.

What I mean to say is that the damage is dodgeable, but the shadowstep isn’t. If you want to prevent the shadowstep, you MUST block or reflect it. The damage will also be prevented when doing so. If you dodge roll, she will shadowstep to you, but the damage will not occur. She will also flourish almost immediately after shadowstepping (unless you’re too far away after her shadowstep).

Reymis.2158:

All I will say about this dungeon is that a little coordination goes quite a long ways here. People run around like chickens with their heads cut off on the boss fights and yes it is very tough. I ran this with a pug group and they did this exact thing. But we got our stuff together explained what to do and low and behold, we defeated the bosses. Maybe you have to change up some traits, maybe try a new weapon combo, but its just not as “impossible” as people claim it to be.

I remember raids where 1 person could cause the entire group to wipe, no exceptions. At least here you can solo (with practice) Frizz, and heck pretty much 3 or 4 man Mai. If you think about it, someone is down frequently so people are constantly trying to res them. It’s not often you have a full group going at it. But imagine if everyone tried to stick to a plan. Should make things pretty easy.

It depends on your profession. As a Mesmer, I can solo “tank” Horrik and Mai while ressing my teammates by stacking invis with clones. As long as my allies didn’t all die in a corner (so I can move around while ressing 2 people), I’m fine because I can blink, phase retreat (blink again), invis, block (mai projectile) and roll when need be.