so, rapiers have their own AA animation

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

i noticed during the mai trin fight that she doesn’t use the standard slash-slash-stab animation we’re used to when people wield swords. it’s a much more dance-y, swirly kind of animation (which is only natural, given her weapon of choice).

and i’d give anything to be able to fight like that. i’m really not that into the current animation cycle, because i main a thief, and it looks silly on a thief. i imagine mesmers would feel the same.

so the question is, or rather, the questions are:

1- would the rapier, if it was ever introduced to the game, be a new weapon type, or would it just be a sword skin?

2- in the case of the latter (which is much more likely), would it change the combat animations, at least for the non-ranger sword users? (rangers are kinda stuck with their unique animation cycle, since their AA chain works differently). if not, what would you want from me to give me that option?

it just seems like a waste of a cool combat animation, and i think i’m not alone when i say some people would welcome the option, even if it came at an added cost.

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

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Posted by: Curo.2483

Curo.2483

I think things like this are done to give the boss a unique feel and not the “oh you just copy-pasted regular animations, increased the stats, and called it a boss” feel. I’d expect special animations for special characters to be limited to those characters.

Curo Lunesque – “Concerned Citizen and Community Builder”
NSP – northernshiverpeaks.org

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Posted by: Plunder.8195

Plunder.8195

I think they’ll add rapier a as a new weapon in some future update. In the latests blog post ( https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/aetherblade-pirates-look-up/ ) they specifically said:

“The Aetherblades are multi-racial and use magic. They also carry a weapon heretofore unseen in Tyria: a long and narrow blade that they call a rapier. It has proven quite effective as a weapon, according to those who survived the Aetherblade raids.”

Which I take as a strong hint to some future new weapon.

Some thought provoking quote

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Posted by: Terrahero.9358

Terrahero.9358

Hard to tell, it would honestly become quite messy. Weapons come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes. Swords are no exception.
Should a sword become a new weapontype just because its thin? What about a sword thats very broad? Or what about a curved sword, surely those fighting styles are different aswell.

Not to mention other weapons. She uses a revolver, surely a revolver would be an entirely seperate beast from your standerd flintlock? And we already have very different types of rifles aswell, an actual rifle or a blunderbus, huge difference! All the while a much more obvious type, like a two-handed Axe, isnt available.

So, where does this end?

I think the Rapier is going to be a (cool!) weaponskin, but not an entirely new weapontype. It would simply be far to restricted as it is merely a subcatagory of the sword-class. Which doesnt leave a lot of imaginations to make new skins either because its a far more restricted type.

Besides, adding new weapontypes is a massive task. Thats something theyd only do for expansions.
You need to make 30-40 new skins for that weapon. You need to design new skills and animations for this weapon. You need to balance these new abilities with the rest of the game. Add these new weapons to loottables, to crafting, dungeon rewards, make a legendary.
Thats a lot of work and manpower to spend on something that only a few professions can actually use. Meaning most players wouldnt get anything new for a while because the devs are busy working on content thats just for 2 or 3 professions.

(edited by Terrahero.9358)

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Posted by: Chrispy.5641

Chrispy.5641

Not to mention other weapons. She uses a revolver, surely a revolver would be an entirely seperate beast from your standerd flintlock? And we already have very different types of rifles aswell, an actual rifle or a blunderbus, huge difference! All the while a much more obvious type, like a two-handed Axe, isnt available.

Well, to add on to this, and just to be fair, you don’t see any player wasting ten seconds to reload those said Flintlock rifles and pistols in the game. And, you can actually get a Wheellock Rifle in the game, which if you pay attention to real world history, is older and inferior to a flintlock. In the game they all still fire the same though. The Thief actually has a weapon skill for the pistol that fires off 5 shots at once. What old Musket/Pistol/whatever do you know that can do that (besides being technical and showing off a Revolver/Matchlock rifle from 1580, very few of which ever existed)?

Also, I am including a link to that revolver/matchlock from 1580, because it is that awesome looking! You should totally put something like it in the game Anet!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drehling_GNM_W1984_ca_1580.jpg

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Posted by: Grounder.7381

Grounder.7381

rapier and canons are the all new soon to be weapon types then..

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Posted by: Lucky.9421

Lucky.9421

Another thing to note is that those rapier animations are quite slow. I think a player would find them sluggish.

They look cool though. Nice job to whoever made them.

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Posted by: Lucky.9421

Lucky.9421

rapier and canons are the all new soon to be weapon types then..

I want to see the Charrzooka carried like it was in the original concept art now that they have an appropriate animation. They were just using the rifle animations before.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/50032/gw2-charr-cannon.jpg

Do it Anet.

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Posted by: Terrahero.9358

Terrahero.9358

Well, to add on to this, and just to be fair, you don’t see any player wasting ten seconds to reload those said Flintlock rifles and pistols in the game. And, you can actually get a Wheellock Rifle in the game, which if you pay attention to real world history, is older and inferior to a flintlock. In the game they all still fire the same though. The Thief actually has a weapon skill for the pistol that fires off 5 shots at once. What old Musket/Pistol/whatever do you know that can do that (besides being technical and showing off a Revolver/Matchlock rifle from 1580, very few of which ever existed)?

Also, I am including a link to that revolver/matchlock from 1580, because it is that awesome looking! You should totally put something like it in the game Anet!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drehling_GNM_W1984_ca_1580.jpg

Ofcourse, there is a breaking of realism for the sake of gameplay mechanics. I was pointing it out because some people think that a Rapier would work very diffirently and thats a reason why it would be a new type of weapon.
When infact we already have a breaking of realism, a suspension of disbelief, to facilitate gameplay.

And i think people are now trying to convince themselves, and eachother, that this is going to be a new weapontype. Even if there is no evidence whatsoever to support that idea, and plenty of reasons to belief why it will not be a new weapontype. Several of which i’ve mentioned earlier.

As a result people are setting themselves up for a (big) disapointment.

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

Another thing to note is that those rapier animations are quite slow. I think a player would find them sluggish.

They look cool though. Nice job to whoever made them.

well yeah they’re kinda on the slow side, but then again, i have yet to see an NPC with an attack pattern that’s as fast as what you expect a player to do. they could always speed up the animation to match the current AA chain.

i just really want to replace my currently crappy AA attack chain (looks fine on my guardian, but silly on a thief), and i’d also really like the rapier skin, and it just so happens that both things are tied together right now.

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

(edited by BrunoBRS.5178)

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Posted by: MithranArkanere.8957

MithranArkanere.8957

“Monster skills” do not always match player skills.
They can have their own animations and skill effects.

NPC models are not “constructed” like player models. Even if they seem to wear the same equipment as players, they are “one piece” models, and only their weapons and are variable.

So an enemy using animations we haven’t seen in any player of the same race means nothing.
They can be different skills and they can have a different model.
Horrik’s animations are probably unique own, not default male norn animations.

SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!

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Posted by: Orpheal.8263

Orpheal.8263

Hard to tell, it would honestly become quite messy. Weapons come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes. Swords are no exception.
Should a sword become a new weapontype just because its thin? What about a sword thats very broad? Or what about a curved sword, surely those fighting styles are different aswell.

Not to mention other weapons. She uses a revolver, surely a revolver would be an entirely seperate beast from your standerd flintlock? And we already have very different types of rifles aswell, an actual rifle or a blunderbus, huge difference! All the while a much more obvious type, like a two-handed Axe, isnt available.

So, where does this end?

I think the Rapier is going to be a (cool!) weaponskin, but not an entirely new weapontype. It would simply be far to restricted as it is merely a subcatagory of the sword-class. Which doesnt leave a lot of imaginations to make new skins either because its a far more restricted type.

Besides, adding new weapontypes is a massive task. Thats something theyd only do for expansions.
You need to make 30-40 new skins for that weapon. You need to design new skills and animations for this weapon. You need to balance these new abilities with the rest of the game. Add these new weapons to loottables, to crafting, dungeon rewards, make a legendary.
Thats a lot of work and manpower to spend on something that only a few professions can actually use. Meaning most players wouldnt get anything new for a while because the devs are busy working on content thats just for 2 or 3 professions.

I have strongly to disagree with you.
A rapier is not just a sword. A Rapier has no normal blades like a sterotypical sword.
A rapier is much lighter and thinner than a normal sword, and because of that, rapiers aren’t made for slashing attacks as like normal swords. Rapiers are made for piercing attacks!!
So you have to perform with them a completely different fighting style, which can automatically lead to completely different weapion related skills, when you wield a rapier instead of a normal sword.

have you ever lookede at the sword skilsl of a warrior for example?? They are all SLASHING ATTACKS, with horizontal or vertical strikes, but not a single thrust attack for piercing an enemy, what you would do with rapiers, epees or the so called foil.

Ever seen a fencing battle?? What do you think do they make to attack their enemy?
Right, a quick thrust attack to try to hit their opponent, before they get hit self.
Other than that, all kinds of vertikal and horizontal moves are only used to parry enemy attacks.
——
Nothing could also stop Anet to implement for exampel again also too Recurve Bows, like GW1 had them .. one might say, they are nothing else than a middle thign between short and long bow.. but its just enough mechanic wise, to give the game and some classes new weapon skills!!

Basicalyl Anet could add Great Axes also just as Hammer reskins ?? But not, it would just make alot more sense and would be way more interesting and an improvement to the game, if Anet would implement them as separate weapon category with their very own weapons skills, don’t you argee???

And the same would it be with Rapiers!!

Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

Hard to tell, it would honestly become quite messy. Weapons come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes. Swords are no exception.
Should a sword become a new weapontype just because its thin? What about a sword thats very broad? Or what about a curved sword, surely those fighting styles are different aswell.

Not to mention other weapons. She uses a revolver, surely a revolver would be an entirely seperate beast from your standerd flintlock? And we already have very different types of rifles aswell, an actual rifle or a blunderbus, huge difference! All the while a much more obvious type, like a two-handed Axe, isnt available.

So, where does this end?

I think the Rapier is going to be a (cool!) weaponskin, but not an entirely new weapontype. It would simply be far to restricted as it is merely a subcatagory of the sword-class. Which doesnt leave a lot of imaginations to make new skins either because its a far more restricted type.

Besides, adding new weapontypes is a massive task. Thats something theyd only do for expansions.
You need to make 30-40 new skins for that weapon. You need to design new skills and animations for this weapon. You need to balance these new abilities with the rest of the game. Add these new weapons to loottables, to crafting, dungeon rewards, make a legendary.
Thats a lot of work and manpower to spend on something that only a few professions can actually use. Meaning most players wouldnt get anything new for a while because the devs are busy working on content thats just for 2 or 3 professions.

I have strongly to disagree with you.
A rapier is not just a sword. A Rapier has no normal blades like a sterotypical sword.
A rapier is much lighter and thinner than a normal sword, and because of that, rapiers aren’t made for slashing attacks as like normal swords. Rapiers are made for piercing attacks!!
So you have to perform with them a completely different fighting style, which can automatically lead to completely different weapion related skills, when you wield a rapier instead of a normal sword.

have you ever lookede at the sword skilsl of a warrior for example?? They are all SLASHING ATTACKS, with horizontal or vertical strikes, but not a single thrust attack for piercing an enemy, what you would do with rapiers, epees or the so called foil.

Ever seen a fencing battle?? What do you think do they make to attack their enemy?
Right, a quick thrust attack to try to hit their opponent, before they get hit self.
Other than that, all kinds of vertikal and horizontal moves are only used to parry enemy attacks.
——
Nothing could also stop Anet to implement for exampel again also too Recurve Bows, like GW1 had them .. one might say, they are nothing else than a middle thign between short and long bow.. but its just enough mechanic wise, to give the game and some classes new weapon skills!!

Basicalyl Anet could add Great Axes also just as Hammer reskins ?? But not, it would just make alot more sense and would be way more interesting and an improvement to the game, if Anet would implement them as separate weapon category with their very own weapons skills, don’t you argee???

And the same would it be with Rapiers!!

not to burst your bubble, but there are plenty of stabs and piercing attacks in sword animations, not the least of which being the third attack in the AA chain.

also, there are a bunch of one-sided blades that get treated as longswords, and best of all, flat blades that you can thrust with.

so i don’t think a different style of one-handed sword warrants a new weapon, matter of fact i only brought it up because Mai has a cool new animation.

as for great axes, they could probably work as GS skins. i look at all the warrior GS skills and they look perfect for a great axe, for example.

not saying that i wouldn’t want new weapon types (we could really use some crossbows to give certain classes more ranged options), but it’s not every single variation of a weapon that deserves to be something of its own.

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

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Posted by: Terrahero.9358

Terrahero.9358

snip

I hate be an kitten in this, but you are deluding yourself.

We already have weapons in the same catagory that would work radically different from eachother. Even within the catagory of Sword.

And the idea that a weapon should work like this in reality, doesnt mean it should in a video game. Just look at pistols, or rifles. Do you ever see anyone reload theirs? Nope, you see people shoot a whole burst or volley. Which is completely impossible for a flintlock pistol or rifle. Yet it happens anyway because its part of the gameplay mechanics.

All the reasons people use to say it will be a unique weapon, and ANet has already shown not to care about these reasons in the mechanics theyve already implemented.

And as i’ve already said before. It would be a lot of work put into just a few professions, and i do mean A LOT of work. This isnt merely adding a skin or two. They would have to dedicate quite some resources to implement a new weapontype. And this would be done for just 2 maybe 3 professions.
Meaning the majority of the players would not get any new content at all for quite some time. And all that work to add a weapontype, that would have to be a free content update because you cannot segregate the community of certain professions between those who can and cannot use a Rapier.

So, in short. ANet doesnt care if a weapon is used different ingame then it is in reality. ANet would have to put a huge amount of effort into making this a unique weapontype, something costing a lot of money but not going to really make them any money back.
Aswell as being content only a minority can enjoy.
And goodluck designed 30+ Rapier weaponskins without it becomming horribly repetitive.

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Posted by: Toast.6459

Toast.6459

Guard with a rapier? I fully support this idea, auto attack #3 for guards using sword never really looks right with a sword to be honest. For that matter though, #1 and #2 wouldn’t really look right with a rapier.

Still, rapier guard plez

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Posted by: Plunder.8195

Plunder.8195

Lore wise, there is no reason for 30+ skins. As mentioned in the blog post, the weapon is new to Tyria, so the only ones around now are the Aetherblade-rapiers. That would add up to one skin.

I have no idea how much work it is to add a new weapon to the game. Judging from the bundle-mechanic the system is pretty flexible. We see from Mai that the animations, at least for the humans, already exist, as well as several attacks. From what you say what costs a lot of time, it is already in the game for a large part, it exists already for the NPCs.
I don’t believe that designing a new weapon is so much more work as designing a new dungeon, with new mechanics. The latter we have seen twice already. But I do expect it will be limited for PvE only at the start for balance issues.

Of course, I am not 100% convinced that there will be a new weapon, but that the blog post specifically mentioned “a new kind weapon” that has a unique attack is definitely noteworthy.

Some thought provoking quote

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

Guard with a rapier? I fully support this idea, auto attack #3 for guards using sword never really looks right with a sword to be honest. For that matter though, #1 and #2 wouldn’t really look right with a rapier.

Still, rapier guard plez

Wouldn’t they?

If you look closely at the autoattack, the guardian creates a blade of force around the physical blade with each swing. This was really obvious in some of the prerelease demos of the game (and is the reason why guardian sword attacks have a longer range than most melee attacks) before people asked for a toning down of the special effects. So a guardian with a rapier could simply add a slashing edge of magical force and slash away like it was a broadsword. With a thin-bladed rapier, in fact, it might actually even be easier to see what the guardian is doing.

Mesmers I could easily also see slashing away with a rapier, but that’s because I interpret Mind Slash/Gash/Spike as essentially using the sword as a focus/delevery system for what is essentially a magical attack. The mesmer is not actually trying to slice the enemy with the sword, (s)he is just looking to touch them with it and conduct a surge of magic through the blade into their target – in which case, a rapier is pretty much perfect for the role, and when you get down to it, it doesn’t really matter much whether the rapier comes into contact with the enemy by swinging or thrusting. Of course, since we rarely get the fluff behind a skill, you might have a different interpretation.

Other professions are more of a problem since they’re relying more on the actual sharp parts rather than using the sword as a focus for a magical attack like the guardian and mesmer – but all it would probably need is adding a special animation to the skin. That said, even this would probably mean having to do it multiple times to cover race/gender combinations.

On it being a new weapon: I could certainly see it. Would never have happened in GW1, but since in the GW2 system a new weapon is pretty much the only way to introduce new weapon skills, then it would be quite logical to introduce a new swordlike weapon if they decide they want to introduce new skills that would be suitable for that new swordlike weapon. Yes, it would be harder for them to make giant-bladed anime-esque monstrosities out of rapier skins like they do to create a simulacrum of variety for swords and greatswords, but as you can probably judge from my language, I don’t consider that to be a bad thing. I hate most sword and greatsword skins.

It would have to be part of an expansion that includes other new weapons (or adds old weapons to profession that previously didn’t have them), though.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: Terrahero.9358

Terrahero.9358

Lore wise, there is no reason for 30+ skins. As mentioned in the blog post, the weapon is new to Tyria, so the only ones around now are the Aetherblade-rapiers. That would add up to one skin.

So, you think they will add a new weapontype and then only make ONE weapon for that?
Design new skills, new traits, for atleast 2 and likely 3 professions. Balance these, test these, etc. And then add just ONE weapon that can actually be equiped?

Nevermind people want different stat combinations. Or want to get a rapier at low level for their profession. Or want to get a weapon for their dungeon trouble. And what about a legendary? It would be the only weapontype without a legendary. And no recipes to craft some rapiers?

That would be an incredibly kitten way of adding a new weapon type into the game.
If you want to make a new type of weapon, that is equal to other weapons. You need random drops of various levels (krytan, bandit, shiverpeaks, peacekeeper, etcetc), you want recipes to craft them throughout various level intervals. Aswell as exotics. You’ll need to be able to supply in all the available stat combinations (ptv/ptc/ptc/ppc etcetc). Every dungeon must be able to reward the player with a special skinned weapon. There has to be a fractals version.
And ofcourse there should be a Legendary for players to work towards. Not to mention a dozen or so skins from the mystic toilet or rare drops.

Anything less then that and you’re just creating a weaponsetup that some players will use, without giving them the full experience they would get with another weapon. And you better believe there will be a ton of complaining, and rightly so.

As for how much work this would be. Well they release about 10 new skins every month. So you’re looking at a few months without new skins for everyone to enjoy. As for the balance, its been almost a year and just how much balance and real profession changes have we seen? Not a whole lot.
hell it took em 10 months to fix an Engineer trait that was broken since launch. Goes to show how busy they are with all this. So, putting a whole new weaponset on the profession devs plate on top of that will no doubt mean profession balance, bugfixes and changes in general will take a backseat for a while aswell.

And then, after these months of minimal updates, only 2 or 3 professions get a major update (new weapon, new skins, new traits, obvious trait rebalance) and the other 5 or 6 professions (the majority of the playerbase) dont get jack.
Thats not just incredibly unlikely, but also bad bussiness. And i dont think they will add any new weapontypes unless they can give every profession(all players) something meaningful. And that amount of content, thats almost certainly expansion-material.

(edited by Terrahero.9358)

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Posted by: Auesis.7301

Auesis.7301

Mai isn’t the only one. Aetherblade swashbucklers also use the same animation.

Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief

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Posted by: Hedge.8760

Hedge.8760

Actually, as far as I recall, nope.

The rapier animation isn’t unique. It is exactly the same as the sword animation for rangers. The pierce-kick-swish-cycle is from them.

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Posted by: Toast.6459

Toast.6459

Guard with a rapier? I fully support this idea, auto attack #3 for guards using sword never really looks right with a sword to be honest. For that matter though, #1 and #2 wouldn’t really look right with a rapier.

Still, rapier guard plez

snip

I guess, but it would still look a little off.

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

Actually, as far as I recall, nope.

The rapier animation isn’t unique. It is exactly the same as the sword animation for rangers. The pierce-kick-swish-cycle is from them.

it most definitely isn’t the ranger animation. would be easier to prove my point if i wasn’t apparently the only player that doesn’t play with the camera max zoomed out and top down.

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

You can find ways to make different forms of rapiers, epees, foils, gladii, and similar thrusting blades without having to resort to gaudy oversized blades that look like they were inspired by Warhammer orcs.

Blade-wise, there’s blades like the Aetherblade one and blades with a circular cross-section, as well as a the possibility for various special effects like fire or electricity, sylvari blades that look like thorns, thrusting swords with multiple points, and the like. Additional customisation can come from the hilts – rapier hilts historically had a tendency to be ostentatious, so that’s somewhere the designers could really go to town.

I wouldn’t expect it as a mechanically new weapon without being packaged as part of an expansion(-level content update), but I can certainly imagine it being possible to do a full range of appearances.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: VOLKON.1290

VOLKON.1290

You know what would be a gorgeous rapier skill? A feint, which interrupts your enemy’s actions by making them try to block, which is immediately followed with a disengage-thrust for a hit. (Not disengage as “leave combat”, but in the “changing your line” aspect.)

#TeamJadeQuarry

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

Interrupting is a bit harsh, since characters are able to keep activating their skills when subjected to genuine hits. I’d probably represent feinting then attacking as a chain skill – the faint applies a significant Vulnerability stack, and then you have a chain skill that represents the followup.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.