Guild Wars 2

Will this story chain be slowly ‘dragged out’ into several 1-month phases like the F&F story line was?

As much as I really enjoyed the Flame&Frost content, even I must admit that it was slow coming to climax. Even the bloggers and gaming news sites mentioned onto how slow the approaching events led up to the bigger parts and how the beginning was just too minimal.

~~>Building signs for refugees = boring. I’d rather be beating 1,000 polar-bears with the same piece of wood rather than using it to build even one sign.

~~> Invasion area = small. The areas were the portals opened up for the Molten Alliance to take over was incredibly small. That was an invasion? The bandits in the zones around Divinity’s Reach have more military push than that. I recall the close of the 1st Beta where The Shatterer flew over the zone and dropped crystals that infected players by the 100’s. It became a true invasion of a whole zone that this one just didn’t live up to; this invasion being only small sections of two maps that never fully effected the whole of either map.

~~>Investigation = too long and unorganized. The one major aspect of this event that should have been shrunk down to a week at most would have been the Order of Whispers secret drop locations part. It’s basically a “go here with this object in your bag”. The Guild Trek missions have far more going for them. It was also mishmash where there should have been a single location to start and that location gave clues to the next location and when that one is found the next one would give the following’s location and so on. This is true Order, true use of a Whisper chain.

~~>Climax = shortest part. I love the dungeon. It’s cool, it’s exciting, the boss is the best thing I’ve fought since Vexa from Vexa’s Lab (also a two-phase boss fight…kind of says something ‘wink, wink’). But, it’s also only existing for two weeks and no more. Building signs for refugees and digging in the snow/dirt lasted longer. This shouldn’t just be a slight irritation on the players, but also the developers who clearly put far more work into that dungeon rather than a few signs and dirt mounds. The most developed content should get the most spotlight.

As you can see, I have my feedback for the Flame&Frost. I know this isn’t the F&F event, but this feedback should apply to the future content such as The Secrets of Southsun. Crab tossing, for one example, is being said to be temporary and removed once the content related to it is gone. Will this be gone in 2-3 weeks while a “build an anti-Karka fence” objective stays for 4-6 weeks? That’s what I’m concerned about. That’s why I wrote this very long writeup.

Agree with the slow parts but I still hope it will stay atleast for 2 months.

secret of southsun is a one month “transitional” event.

source

I cant find anything about one month there.

I agree with the pacing-critic, would have felt much smoother if the had more change in the beginning when little content was introduced and kept the engaging content (the dungeon) longer.

Strejda Tom.6108:

I cant find anything about one month there.

May represents a transition—the Flame & Frost arc is now complete, and our plan calls for content to build on what came before while also kicking things off in a new direction.

How does helping Kiel tie in to the next multi-month story arc? That’s a secret that won’t be entirely revealed until June, but rest assured that it does all tie together. What you do with and for Kiel will matter in the coming months, and along the way Team Spring Break is determined to keep things lively. It’s full speed ahead on Southsun Cove, baby, and you’re invited.

Yeah, having the grand finale dungeon out for not even two weeks is in bad taste. Why not have it up for a month like the other chapters of Flame & Frost?

They said the big secret of Southsun will be revealed in June.

Dark Jericho.8609:

Yeah, having the grand finale dungeon out for not even two weeks is in bad taste. Why not have it up for a month like the other chapters of Flame & Frost?

I hope its due to them realising the pacing was off after recieving feedback from F+F, i mean this update is coming at a unusual time (middle instead of end of month) and the only reason i can see them doing that and cutting the F+F finale short is because they have revised a new schedule for content.

This (i really do hope) should mean Anet is actively working at the problem. Although we will just have to see at the end of the southun transition.

There’s a pretty sensible reason for that long pacing, actually—it’s so the people who have lives outside the game or are otherwise casual players have as much time as possible to play it—there’s people who had problems seeing some of the parts as it is, with work and vacation schedules to deal with.

Most other companies would also claim that the schedule is to allow them to work on the next section while the current one is running. But considering that Anet took an entire extra month before putting the last segment, and all they had was a mandatory dungeon, and no other alternative content, I rather doubt that applies here at all. The F&F story as a whole has less work put into it than the SAB did, which is really sad.

Well, if it ends in June, at least it should be faster-paced. Here’s hoping, anyway.

It’s amazing to me that the vast majority of the Flame and Frost content that was worth playing was only around for 12 days. Such a waste.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

Dark Jericho.8609:

Yeah, having the grand finale dungeon out for not even two weeks is in bad taste. Why not have it up for a month like the other chapters of Flame & Frost?

I hope its due to them realising the pacing was off after recieving feedback from F+F, i mean this update is coming at a unusual time (middle instead of end of month) and the only reason i can see them doing that and cutting the F+F finale short is because they have revised a new schedule for content.

This (i really do hope) should mean Anet is actively working at the problem. Although we will just have to see at the end of the southun transition.

that makes sense to me. you probably have it there.

Siphaed.9235:

Will this story chain be slowly ‘dragged out’ into several 1-month phases like the F&F story line was?

As much as I really enjoyed the Flame&Frost content, even I must admit that it was slow coming to climax. Even the bloggers and gaming news sites mentioned onto how slow the approaching events led up to the bigger parts and how the beginning was just too minimal.

~~>Building signs for refugees = boring. I’d rather be beating 1,000 polar-bears with the same piece of wood rather than using it to build even one sign.

~~> Invasion area = small. The areas were the portals opened up for the Molten Alliance to take over was incredibly small. That was an invasion? The bandits in the zones around Divinity’s Reach have more military push than that. I recall the close of the 1st Beta where The Shatterer flew over the zone and dropped crystals that infected players by the 100’s. It became a true invasion of a whole zone that this one just didn’t live up to; this invasion being only small sections of two maps that never fully effected the whole of either map.

~~>Investigation = too long and unorganized. The one major aspect of this event that should have been shrunk down to a week at most would have been the Order of Whispers secret drop locations part. It’s basically a “go here with this object in your bag”. The Guild Trek missions have far more going for them. It was also mishmash where there should have been a single location to start and that location gave clues to the next location and when that one is found the next one would give the following’s location and so on. This is true Order, true use of a Whisper chain.

~~>Climax = shortest part. I love the dungeon. It’s cool, it’s exciting, the boss is the best thing I’ve fought since Vexa from Vexa’s Lab (also a two-phase boss fight…kind of says something ‘wink, wink’). But, it’s also only existing for two weeks and no more. Building signs for refugees and digging in the snow/dirt lasted longer. This shouldn’t just be a slight irritation on the players, but also the developers who clearly put far more work into that dungeon rather than a few signs and dirt mounds. The most developed content should get the most spotlight.

As you can see, I have my feedback for the Flame&Frost. I know this isn’t the F&F event, but this feedback should apply to the future content such as The Secrets of Southsun. Crab tossing, for one example, is being said to be temporary and removed once the content related to it is gone. Will this be gone in 2-3 weeks while a “build an anti-Karka fence” objective stays for 4-6 weeks? That’s what I’m concerned about. That’s why I wrote this very long writeup.

(Huh, can’t +1 it for some reason. The buttons not there)
God I hope not.
If anything they need to condense the beginning sections and make the ending longer. In other words, reverse of how F&F was. Condense the first two/three months into one, then make ending a month long.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Hey folks,

The Southsun Shore stuff will not be like the previous Flame and Frost stuff in regards to how time-spanning it was. We’re a separate team than that one, and we have been working on this content while you all were playing F&F content.
Our story will last a month and then be over with, and as a result is more condensed. We’ve been listening to the feedback on F&F, and tried our hardest to adjust where possible. So our temporary content will last just the month, but we are making some permanent changes to the island that will persist after the living story bit is over.

Sounds awesome, thanks for the update Robert.

Is the Southsun story going to be all at once (like Flame and Frost The Razing, where we had all content at the start) or gradually emerge (like Flame and Frost The Gathering Storm, where there were new lost and found items each week)?

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Hey folks,

The Southsun Shore stuff will not be like the previous Flame and Frost stuff in regards to how time-spanning it was. We’re a separate team than that one, and we have been working on this content while you all were playing F&F content.
Our story will last a month and then be over with, and as a result is more condensed. We’ve been listening to the feedback on F&F, and tried our hardest to adjust where possible. So our temporary content will last just the month, but we are making some permanent changes to the island that will persist after the living story bit is over.

Thank you so much for the answer. Holy cow, you developers are awesome in responding to the players and their feedback. Never have I had experience with any other MMO team that has not only listened to it’s community, but communicated with them in such a way that you guys do. Again, thank you so very much.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Hey folks,

The Southsun Shore stuff will not be like the previous Flame and Frost stuff in regards to how time-spanning it was. We’re a separate team than that one, and we have been working on this content while you all were playing F&F content.
Our story will last a month and then be over with, and as a result is more condensed. We’ve been listening to the feedback on F&F, and tried our hardest to adjust where possible. So our temporary content will last just the month, but we are making some permanent changes to the island that will persist after the living story bit is over.

Robert for president. The first one who listens to the people.

I’d rather be beating 1,000 polar-bears with the same piece of wood rather than using it to build even one sign.

For some reason I want to see this as a minigame.

Atlas.9704:

I’d rather be beating 1,000 polar-bears with the same piece of wood rather than using it to build even one sign.

For some reason I want to see this as a minigame.

Whack-a-bear!

Based on a living story

It seems like, at least the temporary content, will last the whole month:
“So our temporary content will last just the month”

GoldenTruth.2853:

Atlas.9704:

I’d rather be beating 1,000 polar-bears with the same piece of wood rather than using it to build even one sign.

For some reason I want to see this as a minigame.

Whack-a-bear!

Based on a living story

The Norns won’t appreciate this.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Atlas.9704:

GoldenTruth.2853:

Atlas.9704:

I’d rather be beating 1,000 polar-bears with the same piece of wood rather than using it to build even one sign.

For some reason I want to see this as a minigame.

Whack-a-bear!

Based on a living story

The Norns won’t appreciate this.

I’ll just leave this here…
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bear_Club_for_Men

Search your feelings, you know you want to revamp this for GW2.
It is your destiny!

Yes I am totally doing a Darth Vader clench from ESB at this moment.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

So our temporary content will last just the month, but we are making some permanent changes to the island that will persist after the living story bit is over.

Not to sound too negative (or disrespectful), but all I get from that last sentence is that there might be some NPC changes and possibly monster changes/spawns. We know the crab tossing game is going to be temporary, which means probably any other stuff like it (such as the end dungeon of F&F) will also be temporary. I’m still really disappointed by how F&F was handled, so much so that I can’t really even look forward to any new content, since nothing (worthwhile, at least to me) seems to be permanent.
Anyways, thanks for giving us an/the answer Mr. Hrouda.

Sounds good, I like the idea of different teams staggering content. Hopefully the permanent changes result in more gameplay things to do (like events) and not just new or changed NPC/models/etc (what I call “window dressing”). Guess we’ll see tomorrow unless one of the devs lets us know earlier.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

skullmount.1758:

Not to sound too negative (or disrespectful), but all I get from that last sentence is that there might be some NPC changes and possibly monster changes/spawns. We know the crab tossing game is going to be temporary, which means probably any other stuff like it (such as the end dungeon of F&F) will also be temporary. I’m still really disappointed by how F&F was handled, so much so that I can’t really even look forward to any new content, since nothing (worthwhile, at least to me) seems to be permanent.
Anyways, thanks for giving us an/the answer Mr. Hrouda.

Nah, it’s cool. No disrespect for stating your opinion about things. I don’t want to spoil things, but I have been working near exclusively on the content that is going to be a more permanent fixture of the island. It is significantly more than NPCs and some spawns. When a precedent has been established, it’s okay to be skeptical/doubtful, and it’s okay to voice those things. I do hope you’ll enjoy the permanent content I’ve been working on, and it changes your opinion

That makes me much happier!

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I do hope you’ll enjoy the permanent content I’ve been working on, and it changes your opinion

I understand now why dungeons have been forgotten since the AC update.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

skullmount.1758:

Not to sound too negative (or disrespectful), but all I get from that last sentence is that there might be some NPC changes and possibly monster changes/spawns. We know the crab tossing game is going to be temporary, which means probably any other stuff like it (such as the end dungeon of F&F) will also be temporary. I’m still really disappointed by how F&F was handled, so much so that I can’t really even look forward to any new content, since nothing (worthwhile, at least to me) seems to be permanent.
Anyways, thanks for giving us an/the answer Mr. Hrouda.

Nah, it’s cool. No disrespect for stating your opinion about things. I don’t want to spoil things, but I have been working near exclusively on the content that is going to be a more permanent fixture of the island. It is significantly more than NPCs and some spawns. When a precedent has been established, it’s okay to be skeptical/doubtful, and it’s okay to voice those things. I do hope you’ll enjoy the permanent content I’ve been working on, and it changes your opinion

Hmmm, now you’ve peaked my interest. Can’t wait to see whats added permanently. Hopefully its something replayable. Thanks for the reply by the way. (I really enjoy seeing red posts/stuff in dev tracker (thats not support team)

Hi Robert

Thanks for the info, I’m a bit confused though… aren’t you the dungeon-designer? Was the whole dungeon-team working on the new Southsun content? How many teams are there working on monthly content-updates? Are you taking monthly turns (SAB-Team – dungeon team – SAB-Team – …)?

I really like your work so far, I wonder what a dungeon-designer can bring to open world content. Have you designed some open world things already?

+ I’d like to add a question about pacing: Will it be in phases again? If so, we have the finale probably in a 2-weeks-timeframe, something which wasn’t well received by most people during F&F (the dungeon). This would mean you could easily miss content by going on holidays

I am a fan of Robert’s work in the game so far and I am happy to hear he is working on the more permanent content for Southsun Cove. One of my favorite locations in the game.

Wouldn’t it be awesome if we had a dungeon like The Deep from gw1? Would suit SC perfectly

Hey Robert. My hopes are you and your team implement some new farming locations!

People are getting a little tired of Cursed Shore and CoF. Fact of the matter is people like to farm gold as their endgame. You could add all the cool NPCs you want, but we will be marching right back to CoF unless new content could compete!

So if you could perhaps consider creating some nice 5-10g/hour farming events or instances while the resident economist is not looking, please sneak it in! Thanks!

Seriously though. We want more ways to make cash!

So will the secret of southsun cove last from 14th May – 14th June?

If a player logs in within the last few days of the story, will they still be able to experience all the content, or will they have missed something significant?

I’m on holiday for the next couple weeks and I’d hate to miss this story

Thanks!

I think the events keep getting a little better with each month!

I agree that Flame and Frost seemed to drag out a little too much with too sparse content in the first few months, but that last update really hit a good spot for me.

You guys are doing something I’ve never seen an MMO do with monthly content- and it’s exciting to think of what the future will hold as time goes on and the teams get into the swing!

I think these events need to have both a temporary element and a permanent one. Temporary to keep things fresh and feeling alive, and permanent to make it feel like the story had an actual impact on the game. What I didn’t necessarily like about F&F (although I did like it on a whole) was that, from what I’ve seen, pretty much all the content will be gone and it will be as if the event never happened after it’s over.

This is just my general personal opinion on how living stories should be handled.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I do hope you’ll enjoy the permanent content I’ve been working on, and it changes your opinion

I understand now why dungeons have been forgotten since the AC update.

This.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Hey folks,

The Southsun Shore stuff will not be like the previous Flame and Frost stuff in regards to how time-spanning it was. We’re a separate team than that one, and we have been working on this content while you all were playing F&F content.
Our story will last a month and then be over with, and as a result is more condensed. We’ve been listening to the feedback on F&F, and tried our hardest to adjust where possible. So our temporary content will last just the month, but we are making some permanent changes to the island that will persist after the living story bit is over.

Does this mean that the entire storyline will be accessible from the start or will you be adding to it over the next month and introducing a “finale” that will only be around for a day or two? The adding of content that is removed a day or so later means that a lot of people will miss it.

Is there any possibility that, in future, content like this is left for at least a month after it’s added? So if, for example, the finale is added on the 14th of June it’s left in the game until the 14th of July. That way those who can will finish it on the day it becomes available and those who can’t will be given a chance to “catch up” with the story.

I agree that the start of F&F was a little slow but I’d rather that than something like Lost Shores or Halloween which felt like a huge rush to get everything done, even when I was able to drop everything else in my life.

Hopefully they’ll hit a sort of middle-ground here, enough content and/or repeatable (and fun to replay) content for those with more time but also leave it up for long enough that those of us on a more demanding schedule can also get to try everything. I don’t mind if I don’t get to run a dungeon 50,000 times but it would be very disappointing if I didn’t get to do it at all because I was away for the one day it was up or hadn’t had time for all the preliminaries in spite of playing regularly.