Guild Wars 2

I think the confusion people are having on this fight is because it isn’t very intuitive.

Mines as we generally know it – it doesn’t pick targets as it is neutral, which means meaning anyone who steps on it should go boom.

disarming a mine in our heads means it disarms for everyone; friend or foe.

So everyone doing the dungeon the first time would be confused for a bit.

If people actually read descriptions instead of just running by everything that may possibly contain any information, there would be less confusion.

Iruwen.3164:

If people actually read descriptions instead of just running by everything that may possibly contain any information, there would be less confusion.

what specific description would tell players that a disarmed mine would still explode only when an enemy steps on it?

Disarm [Type] Mine
description: Tamper with a [Type] Mine

If things are not intuitive I think that a specific instruction is needed

Bread.7516:

Iruwen.3164:

If people actually read descriptions instead of just running by everything that may possibly contain any information, there would be less confusion.

what specific description would tell players that a disarmed mine would still explode only when an enemy steps on it?

Disarm [Type] Mine
description: Tamper with a [Type] Mine

If things are not intuitive I think that a specific instruction is needed

If you talk to Kiel she tells you how the disarmers work.

More than this, it’s a Trap. Everyone knows how traps work in GW2. If it’s an enemy trap it hurts you and not your enemies, if it’s a friendly trap it hurts your enemies and not you nor your allies. Then game mechanics. Things that are red hurt you but not their allies. Things that are green are safe to you and your allies, but hurt anyone else.

It’s intuitive as long as you follow it with knowledge of how to play the game and not unrelated real world information.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Things that are green are safe to you and your allies, but hurt anyone else.

Friendly effects are white circles. I can’t really think of much else in the game where green is symbolic of not just friendliness, but exclusive friendliness to you while being dangerous to enemies. Can you name what you’re thinking of? Green is also the color of hostile mobs that are lower level than you. So at any rate it’s not consistent.

The only reason this wouldn’t be confusing is if you happen to share the same school of thought as the designer, or you read other sources before actually trying to figure things out for yourself. I gave it a couple tries and then looked it up on the wiki because kitten it. Of course the mechanic is actually simple enough (and the whole instance is easy IMO) once you understand what has to be done, but the instructions given by the game did not help with getting there. This felt a lot like playing a console game that was badly translated from Japanese, but this isn’t SAB so I don’t get the joke.

Leablo.2651:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Things that are green are safe to you and your allies, but hurt anyone else.

Friendly effects are white circles. I can’t really think of much else in the game where green is symbolic of not just friendliness, but exclusive friendliness to you while being dangerous to enemies. Can you name what you’re thinking of? Green is also the color of hostile mobs that are lower level than you. So at any rate it’s not consistent.

The only reason this wouldn’t be confusing is if you happen to share the same school of thought as the designer, or you read other sources before actually trying to figure things out for yourself. I gave it a couple tries and then looked it up on the wiki because kitten it. Of course the mechanic is actually simple enough (and the whole instance is easy IMO) once you understand what has to be done, but the instructions given by the game did not help with getting there. This felt a lot like playing a console game that was badly translated from Japanese, but this isn’t SAB so I don’t get the joke.

I believe green is the color of the AoE placement thing. I have fast-targeting turned on since September, so I may have remembered this wrong and/or it may have changed.

In this case, the AoE is generally helpful to allies and/or detrimental to enemies.

Honestly I couldn’t figure it out initially and my clones pretty much finish Canach off with confusion (pre-condition fix).

Afterwards I was like “Hmmm I know I didn’t do that right…”

I didn’t bother going back in for more runs as I didn’t care to figure it out. I agree with previous posters that the skills are “disarm” skills in the description which is counter-intuitive to the goal. Better tool tips would help, like “rearm”, “rewire”, or “retrigger”. Something other than disarm.

Agreed that you could probably read your way though it, but GW2 is suppose to be a game without “mountains of text to read” per the manifesto. It’s a “visceral and visual” game that’s very “intuitive”.

Ah true. I turned on fast targeting a long time ago. But even so that green circle is used for every aoe including things that are completely passive to enemies.

Leablo.2651:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Things that are green are safe to you and your allies, but hurt anyone else.

Friendly effects are white circles. I can’t really think of much else in the game where green is symbolic of not just friendliness, but exclusive friendliness to you while being dangerous to enemies. Can you name what you’re thinking of? Green is also the color of hostile mobs that are lower level than you. So at any rate it’s not consistent.

The only reason this wouldn’t be confusing is if you happen to share the same school of thought as the designer, or you read other sources before actually trying to figure things out for yourself. I gave it a couple tries and then looked it up on the wiki because kitten it. Of course the mechanic is actually simple enough (and the whole instance is easy IMO) once you understand what has to be done, but the instructions given by the game did not help with getting there. This felt a lot like playing a console game that was badly translated from Japanese, but this isn’t SAB so I don’t get the joke.

I wasn’t talking about traps in that line. Which is why I had a separate line specifically for traps. The line about red and green was in reference to NPCs, but it’s still a universal truth of the mechanic. Red means enemy, green means allie. It’s not difficult, and anyone running around in Southsun should be well aware of it.

All you had to do was use your eyes and your brain, and actually listen to provided NPCs. I talked to Keil, she said specifically that Canach was too strong to actually hurt, but that I might be able to use his traps against him. I then used the device on the first trap I saw because I didn’t want to blow up and wouldn’t you know it, it didn’t disappear, it turned green. I then kept using the device until I got to Canach. I tried to hurt him, and wouldn’t you know she was right I couldn’t hurt him, so I dragged him toward a mine I’d flipped and again wouldn’t you know she was right, it hurt him.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I wasn’t talking about traps in that line. Which is why I had a separate line specifically for traps. The line about red and green was in reference to NPCs, but it’s still a universal truth of the mechanic. Red means enemy, green means allie. It’s not difficult, and anyone running around in Southsun should be well aware of it.

I wasn’t talking about traps either. It’s true of everything. If it’s dangerous to you it shows up as a red circle. If it’s going to help you it’s a white circle. Green usually means friendly, but not all friendlies actually help you. Things that are friendly to you aren’t necessarily dangerous to your enemies. That’s the logical leap you’re making that isn’t enforced by the game.

All you had to do was use your eyes and your brain, and actually listen to provided NPCs. I talked to Keil, she said specifically that Canach was too strong to actually hurt, but that I might be able to use his traps against him. I then used the device on the first trap I saw because I didn’t want to blow up and wouldn’t you know it, it didn’t disappear, it turned green. I then kept using the device until I got to Canach. I tried to hurt him, and wouldn’t you know she was right I couldn’t hurt him, so I dragged him toward a mine I’d flipped and again wouldn’t you know she was right, it hurt him.

Did you also notice that if you use the wrong button, it makes the mine explode? Logically, that should have hurt him too. That’s what I was trying to do at first, pull him into an ARMED mine, and then make the ARMED mine blow up by tampering with it. Not pull him into a DISARMED mine to make it blow up, which by definition of DISARMED it should never do so. As stated before, it seems our primary disadvantage is that some of us understand English and were not prepared for the novel interpretation required to interpret the tooltips correctly. Now if our good Lionguard had said, lure Canach into a disarmed mine because it’s actually still armed, then we’d be getting somewhere.

Kal Spiro.9745:

More than this, it’s a Trap. Everyone knows how traps work in GW2. If it’s an enemy trap it hurts you and not your enemies, if it’s a friendly trap it hurts your enemies and not you nor your allies. Then game mechanics. Things that are red hurt you but not their allies. Things that are green are safe to you and your allies, but hurt anyone else.

It’s intuitive as long as you follow it with knowledge of how to play the game and not unrelated real world information.

This knowledge of “armed” and “disarmed” traps is not unrelated real world info; it is common sense.

A quick google definition of intuitive “Using or based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive.”

I’ve been actively playing since release, i do dungeons a lot (90% of my online time). I’m pretty knowledgeable of the game mechanics, though I dare not claim to know everything.

Friendly traps are usually white aoe, if not all. so in this argument of being intuitive or aoe circles leablo is correct.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Leablo.2651:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Things that are green are safe to you and your allies, but hurt anyone else.

Friendly effects are white circles. I can’t really think of much else in the game where green is symbolic of not just friendliness, but exclusive friendliness to you while being dangerous to enemies. Can you name what you’re thinking of? Green is also the color of hostile mobs that are lower level than you. So at any rate it’s not consistent.

The only reason this wouldn’t be confusing is if you happen to share the same school of thought as the designer, or you read other sources before actually trying to figure things out for yourself. I gave it a couple tries and then looked it up on the wiki because kitten it. Of course the mechanic is actually simple enough (and the whole instance is easy IMO) once you understand what has to be done, but the instructions given by the game did not help with getting there. This felt a lot like playing a console game that was badly translated from Japanese, but this isn’t SAB so I don’t get the joke.

I wasn’t talking about traps in that line. Which is why I had a separate line specifically for traps. The line about red and green was in reference to NPCs, but it’s still a universal truth of the mechanic. Red means enemy, green means allie. It’s not difficult, and anyone running around in Southsun should be well aware of it.

All you had to do was use your eyes and your brain, and actually listen to provided NPCs. I talked to Keil, she said specifically that Canach was too strong to actually hurt, but that I might be able to use his traps against him. I then used the device on the first trap I saw because I didn’t want to blow up and wouldn’t you know it, it didn’t disappear, it turned green. I then kept using the device until I got to Canach. I tried to hurt him, and wouldn’t you know she was right I couldn’t hurt him, so I dragged him toward a mine I’d flipped and again wouldn’t you know she was right, it hurt him.

We did use our eyes and brain, i personally finished it first try <2 minutes. So no, you’re not talking to idiots as you assumed.

As you stated, it was more a process of trial and error than knowing, or having sufficient knowledge of how to tackle the problem.

Reading Kiel’s dialogue is not needed as anything she mentions is already intuitive and immediately known via multiple channels; How to disarm mines to safely pass, Canach not taking damage, or the endure pain icon. There were also detectors and mines at the start, so good planning for this part. I don’t read optional NPC dialogues, NPC’s are rarely (if not never) helpful and i don’t role play.

My issue is mainly the part where there is confusion upon the definition of “armed” and “disarmed” mines.

If skills were named differently like “Convert” or something else rather than “Disarm” maybe that would have made a world of difference. Similar to CoE p2’s “Subvert” command during the boss fight. Maybe they could have insert 1 more line somewhere to clearly show that we are “coverting” the mines instead of disarming.