Guild Wars 2

This is not a hate post, but Anet needs to know what are good story characters and who are the bad ones for us, the players. This two are the most hated characters of the series and i would like to discuss which one is the worst, and why.

I see them both as a really similar characters. Don’t have any charisma, the player doing all the job, and after all, getting all the credit.

I also find the rest of story characters in gw series very very flat and uninteresting (maybe the best, Palawa Joko), but I understand some people could find them charming enough. Then I open this post also to discuss who are the best characters in gw.

Thanks

Imo, Trahearne is worse, simply because he appears just like that, without any background.

Kormir was at least your mentor, we knew she was respected as the leader of Sun Spears and she had also done more in fight against Abaddon than Trahearne against Zhaitan. Not to mention that she suffered from Abaddon’s wrath, while Trahearne didn’t lose anything to Zhaitan.

I don’t hate any of these characters. Trahearne is just one big ‘meh’ for me, while Kormir I think I liked a bit.

Did you just insult a god…

Seriously i love kormir to death, she is by far the best and most interresting character in the entire GW1 game. Kormir was a true leader, and you felt that.

Trahearne is a bit lame indead.

Kormir was wretched. We practically had to carry her sorry hide through the entire campaign, and then at the end SHE becomes the God instead of us. I would’ve cut her down on the spot and jumped into Abaddon’s power myself, probably twisting myself into some dark creature of the abyss, and I would’ve been totally okay with that. The Nightfall campaign was miserable, and Trahearne is several million times less mentally challenged than Kormir ever was.

And for the record, if you play the Sylvari campaign, Trahearne plays a huge role in the early levels.

IF you play sylvari.
For my charr he was like jack-from-the-box. Appeared from thin air. Just like that.

I still call the gods “the five” instead of “the six”… Kormir didn’t help you at all and always caused trouble (like… ahem… activating the events for the Nightfall in the first place… which at the end made her a goddess as a reward lol).

Because I played a Sylvari character at the start, I saw all of Trahearnes back stuff before hand and learnt of his research to restore Orr before the whole “pact” thing. Maybe it’s jaded me, but Trahearne is one of my favorite characters in this game. =/

The story is written for a Sylvari character.

Play one and it seems a lot better.

If you, like me, can’t stand the vegetable people?

Tough luck, Anet doesn’t like you.

Lokheit.7943:

I still call the gods “the five” instead of “the six”… Kormir didn’t help you at all and always caused trouble (like… ahem… activating the events for the Nightfall in the first place… which at the end made her a goddess as a reward lol).

Never understood this. She awakened the Apocrypha… And gets blamed for Nightfall? Which Varesh and Kahyet were conspiring to bring forth anyways?

Kormir gets a lot of annoying bad rap. She was investigating the deaths of the miners, which led us to Fahranur. She traveled to Tyria and Cantha to recruit the Zaishen and more heroes. She led us into battle against Kourna TO STOP VARESH FROM SUMMONING HER DARK GOD. She lost her eyes to demons and still guided us into the Realm of Torment. It was her plan to beseech the Five at the Temple of the Six Gods. She jumped into the Abaddon’s escaping energy, which could have ended her life.

Kormir did a ton of legwork, she was balls to the wall, and lived up to her responsibilities as a warrior and a leader. We weren’t blinded and weakened by demons, hence we were able to do more. But Kormir suffered alot and still pulled what weight she could.

I still don’t get why a lot people hate kormir. I thinks she was just Brilliant leader who care about her people. When it come to trahearne, well you get background story when you play sylvari as most have stated, but you have to remember people he is just a Scholar while unlike Kormir who was a warrior and the leader of the most elite force in elona.

This is why people hate Kormir and love Koss. However, the fact Kormir is miles ahead of Trahearne means a lot because we at least knew who Kormir was. Kormir was also not condescending like Trahearne is throughout Guild Wars 2.

Koss on the other hand is the example of a likeable character even though most people do not use Warrior heroes for AI reasons.

Although Koss came off as an arrogant personality, he was never condescending to the player. Throughout side-quests we learned about his backstory and family confict, learning why he joined the sunspears. And throughout the main plot itself, he acts as a reliable companion with you since the start of the story, injecting his own opinions and ideas of the conflict while not hijacking it.

His very confident, yet deeply honorable personality makes him a very believable character which the player enjoys to travel with.

Because of the polished way which Koss is presented to the player, he is very likeable unlike Kormir and especially unlike Trahearne.

Another example of very likeable characters are Sieran and Tybalt, but I wanted to focus on Koss since he doesn’t need comedy to be likeable.

Kain Francois.4328:

Another example of very likeable characters are Sieran and Tybalt, but I wanted to focus on Koss since he doesn’t need comedy to be likeable.

Hey! What about Forgal? He’s my favourite of the three! As a Norn Warrior, I felt that my character really grew fond of him and truly saw him as a mentor and role-model. And when he was about die a glorious death so save us all he said something in the nature of

“Keep my Legend alive. Tell my story.”

…I swear that a tear rolled down the cheek of both me and my character! It made the “betrayal” of introducing Trahearne as his replacement taste all the more sour.

Oglaf.1074:

Kain Francois.4328:

Another example of very likeable characters are Sieran and Tybalt, but I wanted to focus on Koss since he doesn’t need comedy to be likeable.

Hey! What about Forgal? He’s my favourite of the three! As a Norn Warrior, I felt that my character really grew fond of him and truly saw him as a mentor and role-model. And when he was about die a glorious death so save us all he said something in the nature of

“Keep my Legend alive. Tell my story.”

…I swear that a tear rolled down the cheek of both me and my character! It made the “betrayal” of introducing Trahearne as his replacement taste all the more sour.

Someone forgot Forgal? I shall Old Man them into the ground!

Kain Francois.4328:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxmkAoLC6_4

This is why people hate Kormir and love Koss. However, the fact Kormir is miles ahead of Trahearne means a lot because we at least knew who Kormir was. Kormir was also not condescending like Trahearne is throughout Guild Wars 2.

Koss on the other hand is the example of a likeable character even though most people do not use Warrior heroes for AI reasons.

Although Koss came off as an arrogant personality, he was never condescending to the player. Throughout side-quests we learned about his backstory and family confict, learning why he joined the sunspears. And throughout the main plot itself, he acts as a reliable companion with you since the start of the story, injecting his own opinions and ideas of the conflict while not hijacking it.

His very confident, yet deeply honorable personality makes him a very believable character which the player enjoys to travel with.

Because of the polished way which Koss is presented to the player, he is very likeable unlike Kormir and especially unlike Trahearne.

Another example of very likeable characters are Sieran and Tybalt, but I wanted to focus on Koss since he doesn’t need comedy to be likeable.

All well and good but you know what Koss is not? A Warmarshal. Kormir does not have time to be giving her opinions and telling you her backstory. She has a military campaign to run. Players are used to the entire world needing their help. Rurik needed your help escorting refugees. Togo needed your help saving his monastery and protecting against the plague, etc. In both stories you were an exceptional hero/student with great skill. In Nightfall, you’re another soldier. The playing field is even. The only reason you rise up in the ranks is by gaining influence and uncovering Varesh’s conspiracy. Kormir’s really the first person who feels a step above the player. Not even the Vabbian princes, Salma, the Master of Whispers, Kurzick or Luxon Elders feel like they’re in charge. Kormir’s the first character to try to take control of the situation as a leader. I think gamers (especially MMO gamers) had a problem with this. Kormir was a military leader and tactician who, instead of spending time spilling her backstory and feelings, used her diplomacy, knowledge of Nightfall and Elona to run a war. She’s an impersonal character in the middle of a story filled with warbuddies (your heroes) and gets all the credit. Which most leaders do because the war effort tends to fall apart without them. This doesn’t make her bad, I felt this was a more realistic approach to storytelling as far as her character arch is concerned.

Gregorius.1024:

This doesn’t make her bad, I felt this was a more realistic approach to storytelling as far as her character arch is concerned.

To be fair, Kormir did a lot of things behind the scenes. So I can sorta forgive her.

Trahearne is just unpleasant though. Sure Kormir became a god, but Trahearne is very rude to the player and he thinks the world revolves around himself. I’m not saying that to make fun of him, but because Trahearne’s dialogue actually is incredibly rude. Play through the story again and read what he says if he doesn’t make you fall alseep.

Kormir is miles better than Trahearne in my opinion.

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

This doesn’t make her bad, I felt this was a more realistic approach to storytelling as far as her character arch is concerned.

To be fair, Kormir did a lot of things behind the scenes. So I can sorta forgive her.

Trahearne is just unpleasant though. Sure Kormir became a god, but Trahearne is very rude to the player and he thinks the world revolves around himself. I’m not saying that to make fun of him, but because Trahearne’s dialogue actually is incredibly rude. Play through the story again and read what he says if he doesn’t make you fall alseep.

Kormir is miles better than Trahearne in my opinion.

Agreed, I’ll have to catch the instances in Trahearne’s dialogue but he is a bore. I can understand his reservations about leading the pact but there were so many times I wanted to ask him if he would like to go home

Gregorius.1024:

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

This doesn’t make her bad, I felt this was a more realistic approach to storytelling as far as her character arch is concerned.

To be fair, Kormir did a lot of things behind the scenes. So I can sorta forgive her.

Trahearne is just unpleasant though. Sure Kormir became a god, but Trahearne is very rude to the player and he thinks the world revolves around himself. I’m not saying that to make fun of him, but because Trahearne’s dialogue actually is incredibly rude. Play through the story again and read what he says if he doesn’t make you fall alseep.

Kormir is miles better than Trahearne in my opinion.

Agreed, I’ll have to catch the instances in Trahearne’s dialogue but he is a bore. I can understand his reservations about leading the pact but there were so many times I wanted to ask him if he would like to go home

>Monsters attack Fort Trinity
>Automatically assumes they want him and only him.

Just an example.

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

This doesn’t make her bad, I felt this was a more realistic approach to storytelling as far as her character arch is concerned.

To be fair, Kormir did a lot of things behind the scenes. So I can sorta forgive her.

Trahearne is just unpleasant though. Sure Kormir became a god, but Trahearne is very rude to the player and he thinks the world revolves around himself. I’m not saying that to make fun of him, but because Trahearne’s dialogue actually is incredibly rude. Play through the story again and read what he says if he doesn’t make you fall alseep.

Kormir is miles better than Trahearne in my opinion.

Agreed, I’ll have to catch the instances in Trahearne’s dialogue but he is a bore. I can understand his reservations about leading the pact but there were so many times I wanted to ask him if he would like to go home

>Monsters attack Fort Trinity
>Automatically assumes they want him and only him.

Just an example.

Wow, talk about an ego.

I must say, I never disliked Kormir. She had leadership, sacrifice, etc. Maybe a bit flat at times, but overall, not that bad a character. Rurik and Adelbern irritated me at times, though the storyline itself has recognised that Adelbern was a bit bonkers.

“You are no longer my Prince, and you are no longer my son!!” <— cool line.

The cutscenes and dialogue in Factions was far worse than Nightfall. Remember the voices of the Fortune Teller, Danika zu Heltzer, even Shiro himself? Painful at times. Nightfall voice-acting was fine; often good.

Now back onto topic: Trahearne did irritate me, but I think it was his voice more than his role in the story (which I’m mostly fine with). His voice problem is a problem shared by many Sylvari: they sound infuriatingly mock-naive, slightly nasal, like they’re doing a spoken-word recitation of an old Beatles song.

Kormir didn’t feature anywhere near as much as Trahearne, and I don’t dislike her at all, she even had a cool catchphrase “You never fight alone.”

I just wish that throughout the Nightfall campaign, she was a playable hero (whom you lose at the end, due to her actions).

She could of been the first hero we picked up, imagine the impact on the story if we’d lost a hero we’d grown attached to like Koss for example, sure they’d be a God now but We’d never again be able to use them as a hero.

Trahearne on the other hand I absolutely despise, the dullest and most uninspiring character in any game I’ve had the misfortune to meet.

I don’t mind Trahearne. Sure he was convinced that the attack on Fort Trinity was all about him, but as leader of the Pact, isn’t this accurate? As his second in command, an attack on me is by token an attack on him as a play to weaken his power base.

Also he is always dismissing everyone else to ask my opinion on what to do next and then does whatever I pick. It’s not like he has no idea as to what to do, but allows you to pick the individual role for yourself. After defeating the Mouth of Zhaitan he wants to go on the offensive and cut off supplies of dead bodies. There are two things to do and he asks you what part you want to do. He is a decisive leader yet is open to allowing you freedom of choice.

There was this funny comic scene where Kormir was talking to Dwayna.

Dwayna said something like “We are a bit worried that you would favor your Sunspears instead of the other people.”

Kormir responded with “Never heard of ’em.”

Made me seriously laugh. But anyway, at first, I had a (small) hatred for Kormir. It wasn’t until like 2 years after Nightfall released that I finally saw her as a true and kind leader.

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

This doesn’t make her bad, I felt this was a more realistic approach to storytelling as far as her character arch is concerned.

To be fair, Kormir did a lot of things behind the scenes. So I can sorta forgive her.

Trahearne is just unpleasant though. Sure Kormir became a god, but Trahearne is very rude to the player and he thinks the world revolves around himself. I’m not saying that to make fun of him, but because Trahearne’s dialogue actually is incredibly rude. Play through the story again and read what he says if he doesn’t make you fall alseep.

Kormir is miles better than Trahearne in my opinion.

Agreed, I’ll have to catch the instances in Trahearne’s dialogue but he is a bore. I can understand his reservations about leading the pact but there were so many times I wanted to ask him if he would like to go home

>Monsters attack Fort Trinity
>Automatically assumes they want him and only him.

Just an example.

Zhaitan’s army is basically, the guy at the top does 99% of the work, he’s got some semi intelligent underlings but they can’t work together at all. So from Zhaitan’s POV, take out the Pact’s leader and they’ll run around like headless chickens.

Shizune Fujibayashi.4813:

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

This doesn’t make her bad, I felt this was a more realistic approach to storytelling as far as her character arch is concerned.

To be fair, Kormir did a lot of things behind the scenes. So I can sorta forgive her.

Trahearne is just unpleasant though. Sure Kormir became a god, but Trahearne is very rude to the player and he thinks the world revolves around himself. I’m not saying that to make fun of him, but because Trahearne’s dialogue actually is incredibly rude. Play through the story again and read what he says if he doesn’t make you fall alseep.

Kormir is miles better than Trahearne in my opinion.

Agreed, I’ll have to catch the instances in Trahearne’s dialogue but he is a bore. I can understand his reservations about leading the pact but there were so many times I wanted to ask him if he would like to go home

>Monsters attack Fort Trinity
>Automatically assumes they want him and only him.

Just an example.

Zhaitan’s army is basically, the guy at the top does 99% of the work, he’s got some semi intelligent underlings but they can’t work together at all. So from Zhaitan’s POV, take out the Pact’s leader and they’ll run around like headless chickens.

Trahearne doesn’t do anything.

The representatives of the Vigil, Whispers and Priory are the folks that get all the practical things done. The rest is up to you.

Oglaf.1074:

Shizune Fujibayashi.4813:

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

This doesn’t make her bad, I felt this was a more realistic approach to storytelling as far as her character arch is concerned.

To be fair, Kormir did a lot of things behind the scenes. So I can sorta forgive her.

Trahearne is just unpleasant though. Sure Kormir became a god, but Trahearne is very rude to the player and he thinks the world revolves around himself. I’m not saying that to make fun of him, but because Trahearne’s dialogue actually is incredibly rude. Play through the story again and read what he says if he doesn’t make you fall alseep.

Kormir is miles better than Trahearne in my opinion.

Agreed, I’ll have to catch the instances in Trahearne’s dialogue but he is a bore. I can understand his reservations about leading the pact but there were so many times I wanted to ask him if he would like to go home

>Monsters attack Fort Trinity
>Automatically assumes they want him and only him.

Just an example.

Zhaitan’s army is basically, the guy at the top does 99% of the work, he’s got some semi intelligent underlings but they can’t work together at all. So from Zhaitan’s POV, take out the Pact’s leader and they’ll run around like headless chickens.

Trahearne doesn’t do anything.

The representatives of the Vigil, Whispers and Priory are the folks that get all the practical things done. The rest is up to you.

Zhaitan doesn’t do anything. He just sends minions to do it. I never even saw him before we went up on a deathtrap damaged airship and shot at him for half an hour. In fact, after he flopped off of his perch like the epic supervillain that he was, I never saw him again. Probably never will. I mean, nobody could survive that fall, right? Especially not a giant zombie dragon whose superpower is corpses and dead stuff, right?

Right, Trahearne?

…Hey, has anyone seen Trahearne? He was with us before we left Fort Trinity—oh, kitten! We forgot to bring Trahearne with us to kill the dragon!

RoyHarmon.5398:

Oglaf.1074:

Shizune Fujibayashi.4813:

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

Kain Francois.4328:

Gregorius.1024:

This doesn’t make her bad, I felt this was a more realistic approach to storytelling as far as her character arch is concerned.

To be fair, Kormir did a lot of things behind the scenes. So I can sorta forgive her.

Trahearne is just unpleasant though. Sure Kormir became a god, but Trahearne is very rude to the player and he thinks the world revolves around himself. I’m not saying that to make fun of him, but because Trahearne’s dialogue actually is incredibly rude. Play through the story again and read what he says if he doesn’t make you fall alseep.

Kormir is miles better than Trahearne in my opinion.

Agreed, I’ll have to catch the instances in Trahearne’s dialogue but he is a bore. I can understand his reservations about leading the pact but there were so many times I wanted to ask him if he would like to go home

>Monsters attack Fort Trinity
>Automatically assumes they want him and only him.

Just an example.

Zhaitan’s army is basically, the guy at the top does 99% of the work, he’s got some semi intelligent underlings but they can’t work together at all. So from Zhaitan’s POV, take out the Pact’s leader and they’ll run around like headless chickens.

Trahearne doesn’t do anything.

The representatives of the Vigil, Whispers and Priory are the folks that get all the practical things done. The rest is up to you.

Zhaitan doesn’t do anything. He just sends minions to do it. I never even saw him before we went up on a deathtrap damaged airship and shot at him for half an hour. In fact, after he flopped off of his perch like the epic supervillain that he was, I never saw him again. Probably never will. I mean, nobody could survive that fall, right? Especially not a giant zombie dragon whose superpower is corpses and dead stuff, right?

Right, Trahearne?

…Hey, has anyone seen Trahearne? He was with us before we left Fort Trinity—oh, kitten! We forgot to bring Trahearne with us to kill the dragon!

Cleansing Orr was his Wyld Hunt, not killing Zhaitan, so he didn’t come…. How convenient Trahearne. And you bring up a good point, I wish we saw Zhaitan at an earlier point in the story before fighting him. Like a failed attack agains’t him, or failing to save a town he’s decimating, something.

Oh, come now. Cleansing of Orr doesn’t count. Nor does any of the other deus ex machinas he conveniently pulls out of his butt on a regular basis. This happens when he really tries to accomplish something without a convenient miracle from the writers:

Drop Bear.5839:

Oglaf.1074:

Kain Francois.4328:

Another example of very likeable characters are Sieran and Tybalt, but I wanted to focus on Koss since he doesn’t need comedy to be likeable.

Hey! What about Forgal? He’s my favourite of the three! As a Norn Warrior, I felt that my character really grew fond of him and truly saw him as a mentor and role-model. And when he was about die a glorious death so save us all he said something in the nature of

“Keep my Legend alive. Tell my story.”

…I swear that a tear rolled down the cheek of both me and my character! It made the “betrayal” of introducing Trahearne as his replacement taste all the more sour.

Someone forgot Forgal? I shall Old Man them into the ground!

I hope my memory doesn’t fade because in 3o years I’m going to say this to my significant other.

This is the real reason why everyone hates Trahearne: they replace our favorite characters with an apathetic and emotionless dud. I was hoping Trahearne died and I was sad when Forgal and Sieran died.

Rain King.5914:

Drop Bear.5839:

Oglaf.1074:

Kain Francois.4328:

Another example of very likeable characters are Sieran and Tybalt, but I wanted to focus on Koss since he doesn’t need comedy to be likeable.

Hey! What about Forgal? He’s my favourite of the three! As a Norn Warrior, I felt that my character really grew fond of him and truly saw him as a mentor and role-model. And when he was about die a glorious death so save us all he said something in the nature of

“Keep my Legend alive. Tell my story.”

…I swear that a tear rolled down the cheek of both me and my character! It made the “betrayal” of introducing Trahearne as his replacement taste all the more sour.

Someone forgot Forgal? I shall Old Man them into the ground!

I hope my memory doesn’t fade because in 3o years I’m going to say this to my significant other.

This is the real reason why everyone hates Trahearne: they replace our favorite characters with an apathetic and emotionless dud. I was hoping Trahearne died and I was sad when Forgal and Sieran died.

Oh, come on. If Darth Vader had died at the end of Episode IV, who would have given him a second thought?

Trahearne has to survive, because that’s the only way he can be redeemed. If he died halfway through the story, many players would be relieved. He needs a chance to overcome all the interpersonal challenges before him.

When almost every other likeable character we meet inevitably— and unnecessarily— dies, at least they go out on a high note. I mean, it’s not like our mentors mysteriously go missing and their corpses found in such a position as to suggest they were dealing with the enemy. They’re likeable characters, and they only get more endearing as we see them more.
(And those links are just the ones I remember off the top of my head, not including the mentors.)

Makes me think a writer was having a really bad day (or ten) and they all died of catharsis.

Wait, what point was I trying to make?

i kinda liked kormir but the power of abaddon had to be mine…
i hated her when she became a god leaving me behind!
i met trahearne in my sylvari personal story so it wasn’t so problematic to relate to him but as the mother tree chose him to have the sword i retrieved from a villain, to help him with his wylde hunt (purging orr) while my wylde hunt was kill zhaitan…
i’ll never forgive her.

i really hated how every order companion was killed off. Tybalt was incredibly alive for a right-hand man character. i don’t remember the sylvari girl’s name for the priory but she was also very interesting.

Warning: this is long read through about my general feeling about the story so far with the Guild Wars franchise overall. Which has been the weakest link overall when it concerns the franchise as a whole. Everything else within the franchise has been rather satisfactory most of the time.
———————————————————————————————————-
Alright my thoughts on this is that it’s not on the characters themselves are unlikable. It’s the fact the writing, voice acting, or game-play mechanics these NPC’s are directly tied to that are poorly delivered. Sorry Jeff Grubb I knew after when you guys did Eye of the North, it was a step back from what you learned by making Nightfall; which was the most decent story progression arch you did for the Guild Wars franchise. So when you guys said “we learn from our mistakes moving forward into GW2 when concerning the story” (using of the EotN example), I did not hype myself over it.

I think Jeff’s team can come up with some interesting and diverse lore in Guild Wars. The problem is that almost every single time it’s been delivered to an incredibly poor degree it hurts the flow of the story. When this happens the player takes this delivery of plot and either misinterprets the meaning (to an extreme level) or severely degrades it. Hence the disgust we get on both Trahearne and Kormir due to their poor character development.

Nevertheless these are not the only characters this has happens with. Let’s look at Rurik from Prophecies. Did anyone really care about his death? How about Master Togo’s death in Factions? Speaking of factions I loved the scenery and the culture, but the plot was poorly divulged. Voice acting wise Factions was the inferior iteration in the series thus far. Anyone remember Danika zu Heltzer, or any other character who did not sound like they were overacting (otherwise under acting) their part? Nightfall (even with Kormir) was the least offender in most of these categories. Prophecies was semi-forgettable and predictable to the masses. The only thing people kept bringing up from that iteration was the pre-searing, and a little girl that is never mentioned again till a latter expansion.

The only major problem continuity wise with I had with Nightfall was Palawa Joko. Why? He felt like a running a joke at the end with his undead army; and I still don’t see how he could have ever been a serious threat even with the bonus mission pack. By the way don’t forget we still have to deal with him again in the near future when we go back to Elona. This means if you hated the risen now you’re probably going to hate Palawa’s army of darkness even more (pun intended).

Going into Eye of the North: who was the most wanted character everyone wanted to return to the Guild Wars franchise? Also who was their least favorite character to return to the series all grown up once Eye of the North came out? The answer would be the ever brooding Gwen who never changed her character archetype even though she is a supporting protagonist. Also Logan seems to carry on Gwen’s spitefulness and it plays to a point where he seems to actually be self centered when he gets defensive.

Or how about Shiro Tagachi who was a laughable follow-up antagonist after to Vizier Khilbron. Yet they kind of learned from that mistake when you made the two major antagonists in Nightfall (Varesh Ossa (even though she felt like she was just reading her line most of the time) and Abaddon). Then took a step back to make the mindless Great Destroyer and followed by the Elder Dragons in GW2 which are not as threatening as they suppose to be. This is heavily exemplified due to Zhaitan anticlimactic fight. If you were going to do the epic battle thing you should have crashed the ship into him, to do battle upon Zhaitan instead of doing it afar. Then the escape from the ship as it comes crashing down as Zhaitan falls to his inevitable doom.

I know you’re a well accomplished writer Jeff and so is your team, but you guys really need to stop turning your characters into cardboard cutouts of other prominent individuals either fictional or non. If anything I would look at another game developer that is in close proximity to you, who already knows how to blend story and game play together to a fantastical degree. In my own personal opinion it that would be Valve; since I know you guys have conversed before. Also not all of your characters are terrible. The Mursaat, Glint, King Adelbern, Saul D’Alessio, Ogden, Vekk, Vael, Gadd, the Asura, and the Charr are just some examples of those who have excellent character development inside and outside of both games. Even your background lore that deals with the past events in Tyria before the games even commence is astounding with its detail. Either when it deals with the human gods themselves or the fallen gods (Abaddon, Dhuum, and Menzies) there is some really neat/clever narrative going on in the background.

Amadan.9451:

i kinda liked kormir but the power of abaddon had to be mine…
i hated her when she became a god leaving me behind!
i met trahearne in my sylvari personal story so it wasn’t so problematic to relate to him but as the mother tree chose him to have the sword i retrieved from a villain, to help him with his wylde hunt (purging orr) while my wylde hunt was kill zhaitan…
i’ll never forgive her.

What ever happened to that sword, anyway?

Or the Sanguinary Blade that we found with the Priory, for that matter? That thing would have been awesome! “Wow, these cannons are taking forever to bring the dragon down. Here, shove this down the barrel!” Or, “Just fly overhead, I’ll drop down and stab him!” Either would have been fun.

Were it up to me, I’d have re-written the story so that after Zhaitan’s death, Trahearne sacrifices/transforms himself into a new Pale Tree sprout, perhaps right atop Zhaitan’s corpse. In this form, and for the rest of his life, he will slowly cleanse Orr of its taint by reclaiming the land. That was why he dreamt about Orr being a green land again, and why the Pale Tree chose him to carry Caladbolg into battle and not the Sylvari PC. I think Trahearne’s reception by the player base would have gone a lot more smoothly if that had been the case.

Either that or let me throw him into the propellers of a Pact Airship and turn him into salad.

Zaxares.5419:

Were it up to me, I’d have re-written the story so that after Zhaitan’s death, Trahearne sacrifices/transforms himself into a new Pale Tree sprout, perhaps right atop Zhaitan’s corpse. In this form, and for the rest of his life, he will slowly cleanse Orr of its taint by reclaiming the land. That was why he dreamt about Orr being a green land again, and why the Pale Tree chose him to carry Caladbolg into battle and not the Sylvari PC. I think Trahearne’s reception by the player base would have gone a lot more smoothly if that had been the case.

That’s actually kind of brilliant. And obviously more effective than what he actually did, since we’ve seen no reduction in the zombie population of Orr. I suppose the only drawback would be that he couldn’t have that “What will I do now that I’ve fulfilled my sole purpose in life?” moment in which we encourage him to find a new challenge.

Certainly takes “putting down roots” to a new level.

RoyHarmon.5398:

Zaxares.5419:

Were it up to me, I’d have re-written the story so that after Zhaitan’s death, Trahearne sacrifices/transforms himself into a new Pale Tree sprout, perhaps right atop Zhaitan’s corpse. In this form, and for the rest of his life, he will slowly cleanse Orr of its taint by reclaiming the land. That was why he dreamt about Orr being a green land again, and why the Pale Tree chose him to carry Caladbolg into battle and not the Sylvari PC. I think Trahearne’s reception by the player base would have gone a lot more smoothly if that had been the case.

That’s actually kind of brilliant. And obviously more effective than what he actually did, since we’ve seen no reduction in the zombie population of Orr. I suppose the only drawback would be that he couldn’t have that “What will I do now that I’ve fulfilled my sole purpose in life?” moment in which we encourage him to find a new challenge.

Certainly takes “putting down roots” to a new level.

I can picture it now: the same guy who did the Nobody Likes You Kormir video does one of Traeherne going on about his Wyld Hunt with it ending of him claiming to have finally cleansed Orr…. while in the background, you see the PC (race/class would be up to debate) getting mauled by packs of Risen, telling Traeherne to not be useless and come help.

Rhinzual.7861:

RoyHarmon.5398:

Zaxares.5419:

Were it up to me, I’d have re-written the story so that after Zhaitan’s death, Trahearne sacrifices/transforms himself into a new Pale Tree sprout, perhaps right atop Zhaitan’s corpse. In this form, and for the rest of his life, he will slowly cleanse Orr of its taint by reclaiming the land. That was why he dreamt about Orr being a green land again, and why the Pale Tree chose him to carry Caladbolg into battle and not the Sylvari PC. I think Trahearne’s reception by the player base would have gone a lot more smoothly if that had been the case.

That’s actually kind of brilliant. And obviously more effective than what he actually did, since we’ve seen no reduction in the zombie population of Orr. I suppose the only drawback would be that he couldn’t have that “What will I do now that I’ve fulfilled my sole purpose in life?” moment in which we encourage him to find a new challenge.

Certainly takes “putting down roots” to a new level.

I can picture it now: the same guy who did the Nobody Likes You Kormir video does one of Traeherne going on about his Wyld Hunt with it ending of him claiming to have finally cleansed Orr…. while in the background, you see the PC (race/class would be up to debate) getting mauled by packs of Risen, telling Traeherne to not be useless and come help.

I hope it includes that scene where Trahearne is like, “What do you think we should call the fort?” And the player says, “There are three orders coming together as one. How about ‘Fort Trinity’?”
And in the next scene, Trahearne says, “I’ve decided to call this place ‘Fort Trinity.’”
Way to share the credit, Trahearne. Just get back on your platform and state the obvious at us. Repeatedly. You can decide to call it “leading.”

I don’t really hate Trahearne, though. I’m mostly just upset about everyone else dying. I guess it’s probably coincidence that the deaths of all my characters’ mentors marked the transition between my personal story and Trahearne’s personal story.

RoyHarmon.5398:

Rain King.5914:

Drop Bear.5839:

Oglaf.1074:

Kain Francois.4328:

Another example of very likeable characters are Sieran and Tybalt, but I wanted to focus on Koss since he doesn’t need comedy to be likeable.

Hey! What about Forgal? He’s my favourite of the three! As a Norn Warrior, I felt that my character really grew fond of him and truly saw him as a mentor and role-model. And when he was about die a glorious death so save us all he said something in the nature of

“Keep my Legend alive. Tell my story.”

…I swear that a tear rolled down the cheek of both me and my character! It made the “betrayal” of introducing Trahearne as his replacement taste all the more sour.

Someone forgot Forgal? I shall Old Man them into the ground!

I hope my memory doesn’t fade because in 3o years I’m going to say this to my significant other.

This is the real reason why everyone hates Trahearne: they replace our favorite characters with an apathetic and emotionless dud. I was hoping Trahearne died and I was sad when Forgal and Sieran died.

Oh, come on. If Darth Vader had died at the end of Episode IV, who would have given him a second thought?

Trahearne has to survive, because that’s the only way he can be redeemed. If he died halfway through the story, many players would be relieved. He needs a chance to overcome all the interpersonal challenges before him.

When almost every other likeable character we meet inevitably— and unnecessarily— dies, at least they go out on a high note. I mean, it’s not like our mentors mysteriously go missing and their corpses found in such a position as to suggest they were dealing with the enemy. They’re likeable characters, and they only get more endearing as we see them more.
(And those links are just the ones I remember off the top of my head, not including the mentors.)

Makes me think a writer was having a really bad day (or ten) and they all died of catharsis.

Wait, what point was I trying to make?

I would support what you’re saying here, except Tybalt Leftpaw had the EXACT same character arc, yet was infinitely more endearing than Trahearne. I don’t care much for Trahearne either way, which is a bad thing. He’s just there to move the story along. Tybalt’s insecurities were actually founded and felt real, Trahearne’s felt like they were written to round his character out. He felt like a convenient substitue for the player character.

I didn’t feel like he had authority over me. Contrast that to the character’s of Destiny’s Edge and the individual racial authorities (I. E. Salma, Mother Tree) during the racial storylines, or the mentor’s (Tybalt, Forgal, Sieran) and the Order heads (Almorra, Gixx, MoW/Doern) during the order lines. They all felt like they had a place in Tyria. Trahearne had a place as an expert on Orr, but they should have left them at that. He should’ve be our sidekick instead of the other way around. I don’t have a problem with authority in previous games (Kormir, Togo, Rurik) because the characters felt like they had authority.

Advisor.

That’s as far Trahearne should’ve moved up in the Pact hierarchy.