Guild Wars 2

The personal story is good until he gets involved….
It was all fun and then he comes along and it goes from YOUR story to his….

This is the only thing he’s good for.

Ya pretty much, you do everything an he gets all the acknowledgement.

And just like I posted in the other Trahearne thread, take this; enjoy.

This is just not really true. You’re the one that gets most of the acknowledgement. It’s you the pact salutes after “the source of Orr”. Trahearne doesn’t credit himself with what happens in the source of Orr, he says that you did it together. It’s true that Trahearne leads the pact, but doesn’t every game have an authority higher than the player? Doesn’t every game have an order giving person? Almost all games do.

Trahearne doesn’t even participate in “victory or death” (the final mission)…

Seriously, I think these arguments are just bad. I’m trying to remain as spoiler free as possible, but I have a lot more ammunition against the notion that it’s Trahearne’s story. You’re still the focus. You’re still doing all of the risky stuff. You’re still the one who gets the most honor. You just have to share the spotlight somewhat, which is not a new concept in gaming. Luke didn’t complain that Han was with him all the way until the end of episode 4…

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/personal-story/

Then look back at personal story, there is none of that.

Old republic had personal story which worked quite well.

Arius.7031:

This is just not really true. You’re the one that gets most of the acknowledgement. It’s you the pact salutes after “the source of Orr”. Trahearne doesn’t credit himself with what happens in the source of Orr, he says that you did it together. It’s true that Trahearne leads the pact, but doesn’t every game have an authority higher than the player? Doesn’t every game have an order giving person? Almost all games do.

Trahearne doesn’t even participate in “victory or death” (the final mission)…

Seriously, I think these arguments are just bad. I’m trying to remain as spoiler free as possible, but I have a lot more ammunition against the notion that it’s Trahearne’s story. You’re still the focus. You’re still doing all of the risky stuff. You’re still the one who gets the most honor. You just have to share the spotlight somewhat, which is not a new concept in gaming. Luke didn’t complain that Han was with him all the way until the end of episode 4…

Really?

The problem is Trahearne is like Veggie Jesus who unites the Orders of Tyria with little to no effort and, unless you are Sylvari, he comes absolutely out of no where with no backstory and is suddenly respected by everyone.

I think you missed the point of a higher up as well. When you join an Order – you also get a higher up that you share the spotlight with and those higher ups feel like real people with real personalities who are there to benefit you and your story. I am staying spoiler free but just look at how many players love and care for Tybalt Leftpaw. He shared your spotlight, like Han shared Luke’s. Tybalt worked with you even though you were technically working as his charge. Trahearne takes your spotlight but allows you to graciously stand in his shadow while he goes on and on and on and displays he has absolutely no charisma or battle skills but somehow, everyone adores and reveres him. He doesn’t feel real. He isn’t sympathetic. His Wyld Hunt is purposeful but the way he is written leaves you feeling like he could have just gotten any old lackey to do the dirty work for him – why must he be a focal point anyhow? It’s like choosing Tingle to rescue Zelda while Link is standing right there. Why would you do that?

The only time you get your dues is in Victory or Death and guess who isn’t there for most of that? Guess who sits that one out? Guess why that final dungeon feels like a Personal Story and not “Trahearne’s Big Adventure”?

Aerlen.5326:

Really?

No, I was joking, it was all just a big joke. For the record, you can find all of the quotes I’ll be using on the wiki pages for the relevant missions.

The problem is Trahearne is like Veggie Jesus who unites the Orders of Tyria with little to no effort and, unless you are Sylvari, he comes absolutely out of no where with no backstory and is suddenly respected by everyone.

Firstly, the player is given credit for uniting the orders of Tyria, NOT Trahearne. You’re the one who’s credited with the victory at Claw Island as well:

“The Order of Whispers never thought to see the day that one of the greatest champions of Zhaitan would fall. You did this, <Character Name>.”

Trahearne is given some credit along side you, but you are given the credit for the most part.

Further, you need to separate complaints about what Trahearne is a bad character, and complaints that suggest that it’s Trahearnes story. The fact that he appears out of no where with no back story has nothing to do with it being Trahearne’s story.

I think you missed the point of a higher up as well. When you join an Order – you also get a higher up that you share the spotlight with and those higher ups feel like real people with real personalities who are there to benefit you and your story. I am staying spoiler free but just look at how many players love and care for Tybalt Leftpaw. He shared your spotlight, like Han shared Luke’s. Tybalt worked with you even though you were technically working as his charge. Trahearne takes your spotlight but allows you to graciously stand in his shadow while he goes on and on and on and displays he has absolutely no charisma or battle skills but somehow, everyone adores and reveres him.

But see, that’s just not true. You’re the one who everyone celebrates at the end of “The source of Orr”. You’re the one who everybody celebrates at the end of “Victory or Death”. At the end of the source of Orr, he doesn’t say “stand back while I save the world”, he says:

“Here, at the end, I am glad that it’s just you and me. We will SPOILER REMOVED together-as were meant to do.”

So I’m sorry, but the evidence does not point towards Trahearne being the one who gets all the glory/reverence.

He doesn’t feel real. He isn’t sympathetic.

Okay, but this is more of a “Trahearne sucks” issue. This in no way means he takes over your personal story. I’m more than willing to respond to this bit, if you’d like, but that’s a different discussion.

His Wyld Hunt is purposeful but the way he is written leaves you feeling like he could have just gotten any old lackey to do the dirty work for him – why must he be a focal point anyhow? It’s like choosing Tingle to rescue Zelda while Link is standing right there. Why would you do that?

The only time you get your dues is in Victory or Death and guess who isn’t there for most of that? Guess who sits that one out? Guess why that final dungeon feels like a Personal Story and not “Trahearne’s Big Adventure”?

Firstly, you also get your dues in “the Source of Orr”.

Secondly, no part of the game ever felt like “Trahearne’s Big Adventure” to me. Trahearne isn’t even present for a good deal of the post-order storyline… The focus is on you, but it also focuses on Trahearne. It’s the story of you and your friend, with the focus on you. While you’ve got your own story you’re going through, you’re going through it with your friend who has his own. That doesn’t mean it’s his story, just that you’re not the only one who the game is focusing on. This is true for Tybalt, Sieran, and the big guy from the Vigil (forgot his name). In fact, you’re more like THEIR sidekick, at least with Trahearne you’re the hardcore commander who does all of the ownage…

All throughout the personal story you’re being showered with praise for your accomplishment. I’m just not seeing any evidence that it’s all about Trahearne.

I’m sorry but the moment he showed up, I noticed the quality of writing declined and I really did feel second fiddle to Trahearne. The writers wanted me to like him, this much is obvious, but he plain isn’t likable by a large majority of players and I’m sure then can explain much better than I what’s wrong with him and direct instances and quotes of how he affects the PS in a negative way.

Yes, there is dialogue of [YOUR CHARACTER] getting the glory but it doesn’t feel much like it. Who is leading The Pact? It’s not you. It is someone who came out of no where and preached to the Orders of Tyria, even had a vision of preaching to them and quibbled that he was no warrior before being given a super special weapon for his super special quest. Do you see what I’m saying there? Trahearne literally is “The Chosen” in this story, he is Luke Skywalker. The problem with that is that this is YOUR Personal Story and you shouldn’t be R2D2 or even Han Solo in it. The player wants to feel as if they are the chosen one, they want to be the hero. Trahearne’s issue is that he takes that from the player character, he praises you again and again as do others but it’s very very clear that this is his story and he will make the choices and he occupies the most important position. What is being said and what the story is showing you are two different things here.

About the Order reps – really they were the Obi kittenenobi’s of the story. They didn’t step on you, you felt like partners. This ties into how Trahearne is written and absolutely cannot be discussed as a separate issue. You say “this is the story of you and your friend” – the problem is that Trahearne doesn’t feel like a friend at all. Trahearne feels like that “baggage” you’re forced to take on a video game escort mission and that fault lies entirely with how he was written and how his AI reacts in combat. If Trahearne’s role was instead filled by your Order partner, I doubt there would be a lick of complaining – you cannot discuss Trahearne though without touching upon how poorly he is introduced, written, acted, scripted, etc because they all impact why he isn’t liked and why many feel he takes over the Personal Story.

As for the SPOILER moment in The Source of Orr – boy did that feel fake, that Trahearne line especially. The story gave me no reason to consider Trahearne my “dear friend” or to care that we were sharing this “special moment”. As I said before – baggage forced upon me that the story insists I grow fond of without giving me any reason to grow fond of him. If the writers had instilled Trahearne with a personality and quirks as they did for Tybalt and Forgal and handled Trahearne’s role better, there would be the feeling of “we’ve come so far, let us finish and celebrate together” but it’s not there. Words on the screen giving you “credit” feel empty without weight behind them. It’s there in Victory or Death, very much so, but again – Destiny’s Edge is full of more genuine characters with genuine personalities whom you’ve watched genuinely struggle and grow and the dungeon lacks the feel of being upstaged.

I honestly do not know how to get it through to you that the emotion in the “being showered with praise” post-Trahearne is severely lacking and the game’s actions contradict it. It’s sort of like the game is telling you that you’re the hero while the story is showing you that you aren’t.

Edit: There will be spoilers in both this and the following post.

Aerlen.5326:

I’m sorry but the moment he showed up, I noticed the quality of writing declined and I really did feel second fiddle to Trahearne.

Okay, I didn’t. We can’t really have a rational discussion about what “I feel”. Tell me, what lines made you feel this way? What makes you feel second fiddle? The only lines you’ll be able to give are ones that talk about how Trahearne is higher ranking/more well known than you. That’s all that made you feel that way (I bet at least), and let’s face it, that exists in every game ever.

The writers wanted me to like him, this much is obvious, but he plain isn’t likable by a large majority of players and I’m sure then can explain much better than I what’s wrong with him and direct instances and quotes of how he affects the PS in a negative way.

You’d actually be surprised. The “majority of players” see the end fight as a true monstrosity that never should have existed. It is bad, IMO, ftr. BUT, in game, people’s opinions are far more friendly than they are online. In fact, in the most recent Arah story I ran (2 days ago), 3/5 people came out with a fairly positive impression of it. I’m not counting myself, and the other one had already done the dungeon and had been talking about how much it sucked all the way through.

Anyways, my point is that opinions aren’t quite as universal as you seem to think they are. Many people don’t have much of a problem with Trahearne.

Yes, there is dialogue of [YOUR CHARACTER] getting the glory but it doesn’t feel much like it. Who is leading The Pact? It’s not you.

But this happens in EVERY game (almost). There’s almost always someone above you giving the orders. I can reference popular TV shows, games, movies, etc… Popular examples that come to mind are the Mass Effect series, Stargate (O’neil and Hammond, Shepard and Weir/Woolsey/Carter), Dragon Age, etc… Further, the companions that everyone loved from the personal story were actually higher ranking than you, Tybalt, Sieran, and what’s his face. You really were treated like their puppy dog or something, Tybalt was quite literally your handler.

It is someone who came out of no where and preached to the Orders of Tyria, even had a vision of preaching to them and quibbled that he was no warrior before being given a super special weapon for his super special quest. Do you see what I’m saying there? Trahearne literally is “The Chosen” in this story, he is Luke Skywalker. The problem with that is that this is YOUR Personal Story and you shouldn’t be R2D2 or even Han Solo in it. The player wants to feel as if they are the chosen one, they want to be the hero. Trahearne’s issue is that he takes that from the player character, he praises you again and again as do others but it’s very very clear that this is his story and he will make the choices and he occupies the most important position. What is being said and what the story is showing you are two different things here.

No, he’s not. The ultimate goal is not to cleanse Orr. Cleansing Orr is helping to repair damage, but stopping the source of he damage is the greatest calling. In the Sylvari storyline, the main character and Caithe are the only people with Wyld Hunts to face Zhaitan. That is the highest calling in the world. Cleansing Orr is secondary. Further, Trahearne says that both he and YOU were destined to cleanse Orr. Not only did you play an important role in cleansing Orr (perhaps the most important), Trahearne had nothing to do with the even more important fight with Zhaitan.

Now, ask yourself this, which battle in the Star Wars universe was more important:

Yoda Vs. Palpatine
or
Obi Wan Vs. Anakin

Even if it were true that you had nothing to do with Trahearne’s goal (and it’s not) you still did the more important thing in destroying Zhaitan.

About the Order reps – really they were the Obi kittenenobi’s of the story. They didn’t step on you, you felt like partners. This ties into how Trahearne is written and absolutely cannot be discussed as a separate issue. You say “this is the story of you and your friend” – the problem is that Trahearne doesn’t feel like a friend at all.

I beg to disagree! I can’t argue your feelings with you. What I can say is that Trahearne is my character’s friend for sure, I feel like we are friends. I’ve never been so touched as when all of the sound went away, “fear not this night” started playing, and Trahearne said “Here, at the end, I’m glad it’s just you and me”. That was the most touching moment of the story, without a doubt, and I will remember it as one of the two most standout points in all of GW2’s personal story (the others being the death of your mentors).

Trahearne feels like that “baggage” you’re forced to take on a video game escort mission and that fault lies entirely with how he was written and how his AI reacts in combat. If Trahearne’s role was instead filled by your Order partner, I doubt there would be a lick of complaining – you cannot discuss Trahearne though without touching upon how poorly he is introduced, written, acted, scripted, etc because they all impact why he isn’t liked and why many feel he takes over the Personal Story.

The voice actor clearly didn’t do a great job at voicing Trahearne (although he does have a lovely voice IMO). I don’t think he was poorly written at all. His scripting, you mean combat behaviors, or are you talking like actual scripts as in where he goes and what he does at certain points? I’ll assume you’re talking about combat, and do somewhat agree.

Also, none of those except for writing and introduction factor in at all to him taking over your personal story. Even if the voice actor was a 12 year old girl that was mute and blind so that she couldn’t read the lines, it wouldn’t make you feel like she was taking over the story.

As for the SPOILER moment in The Source of Orr – boy did that feel fake, that Trahearne line especially. The story gave me no reason to consider Trahearne my “dear friend” or to care that we were sharing this “special moment”.

Of course it did! It gave you all of the missions post “retribution” that you do with Trahearne. That’s dozens of lengthy missions where you’re learning about each other, adventuring, and fighting together. Further, he takes you in as his most trusted confidant, his only friend, his second in command. He looks to you when he needs advice, and he looks to you when he needs help.

There’s plenty of reason to care about him. You may not find any of it sufficient, but it’s a whole different ball game to say it doesn’t exist.

Arius you reminded me of this moment:

“Here, at the end, I’m glad it’s just you and me”

no spoilers just the music.

when this started to play I wished the story would last way longer

There’ no swaying you, friend. You want me to use “text only examples” when the way the story played out itself, the way Trahearne is written, and the content of those missions makes the text empty. There are a lot of people who hate Trahearne and in almost a year in GW2 – you are the only person I’ve ever seen defend him with such fervid determination. I don’t defend Victory or Death with this much stubborn passion because I understand why a lot of players don’t like it and sometimes I even agree with the changes they want (why a 5 man dungeon? Zhaitan should be more epic.. etc).

Let me be positive for a moment then – If Trahearne would have been presented with more of a personality and written better, he would have been a very engaging character. Anet could have hinted at him in the other racial storylines as a scholar looking to cleanse Orr or an expert on all things Orrian. Perhaps you could have met with him sooner, a build up even.

To be perfectly honest, making Trahearne a more likable character with more personality and involving [YOUR CHARACTER] more in decisions/talking to the Orders to merge them/etc would have likely erased a good majority of the hate-on GW2 has for Trahearne and a lot of the feeling that it’s more HIS STORY than yours. He’s often compared to Kormir in GW1 – the feeling of “We did all the work, you get the big prize” seems to be the #1 complaint. All I learned being stuck with him was that he was 100% useless in a fight, had a flat and boring personality, that everyone loved him for some reason I never understood, and that he loved to lecture on and on AND ON. Forgal was my friend, Tybalt was my friend. Heck, I even learned more about Logan’s quirks than Trahearne’s. And it can’t be a sylvari thing because Caithe is also a very engaging character. Why is he written this way? It feels lazy and contrived.

What are Trahearne’s flaws? What are his quirks? Does his life revolve solely around Orr? Why should I feel for him? What does he fear, what has he gain in life? Lost? Could his voice actor not do things in a constant dull monotone because that contributed to the view of him as “boring” as well. Comparing to Tybalt – he loved apples and seemed a hesistant sort – not sure if he had courage or not. That made him endearing. Forgal was a battle-scarred Norn, tough on the outside but with heart. That made him inspiring. Both their VA’s did a wonderful job conveying that and they were written well.

Now I know you’ll pick this reply apart but I’m going to tell you right now, there’s no use in continuing this. I’m not going to see Trahearne the way you want because the game itself made him unlikable but I will conceed that had he NOT been written like Veggie Jesus with the personality of cardboard, there would be less of a feeling that it’s “Trahearne’s story” from me. In my opinion and only mine, a more likable, useful, fleshed out Trahearne would have eliminated a good majority of my personal irritation with him and made those lines of text that much more genuine.

I know it’s too late to change this but I hope Anet just keeps it in mind for future stories.

To sum Trahearne up would be like this.

You are Anakin or Luke and suddenly C3P0 comes along and takes control, he runs off at the first sight of combat, you always have to save him, he does nothing and then at the end he is the one who is praised.

I didn’t feel like I was praised at the end…

milton.1796:

I didn’t feel like I was praised at the end…

Really? All of the cheering/bowing/saluting of almost every single NPC in fort Trinity for you after both the Source of Orr and Victory or Death didn’t make you feel praised? The fact that each member of Destiny’s Edge literally gave you credit for defeating the big bad didn’t make you feel praised? What will make you feel praised? People sacrificing themselves upon an alter, in front of a statue of you, while muttering your name?

Aerlen.5326:

There’ no swaying you, friend.

Then we shall have to agree to disagree, as Wesley said.

Arius.7031:

milton.1796:

I didn’t feel like I was praised at the end…

Really? All of the cheering/bowing/saluting of almost every single NPC in fort Trinity for you after both the Source of Orr and Victory or Death didn’t make you feel praised? The fact that each member of Destiny’s Edge literally gave you credit for defeating the big bad didn’t make you feel praised? What will make you feel praised? People sacrificing themselves upon an alter, in front of a statue of you, while muttering your name?

Human sacrifices upon my altars made me feel extremely well praised in Black & White.

Zoltreez.6435:

Arius you reminded me of this moment:

“Here, at the end, I’m glad it’s just you and me”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOMQxVtbkik

no spoilers just the music.

when this started to play I wished the story would last way longer

Yeah man, I absolutely love that music… and it always reminds me of that one moment with Trahearne. Such good music T.T.

Trahearne at his usual again.
Don’t worry I’ll fight every battle for you while you call yourself a “Marshal”.

He even had like 7 or so minions he summoned around him.

Then read the chat in the second picture.

“If that “one” is Trahearne" etc.

So basically they are saying the battles can only be won because of Trahearne… pfftt.

Arius.7031:

milton.1796:

I didn’t feel like I was praised at the end…

Really? All of the cheering/bowing/saluting of almost every single NPC in fort Trinity for you after both the Source of Orr and Victory or Death didn’t make you feel praised? The fact that each member of Destiny’s Edge literally gave you credit for defeating the big bad didn’t make you feel praised? What will make you feel praised? People sacrificing themselves upon an alter, in front of a statue of you, while muttering your name?

You’re confusing script with substance. Applying similar semantics, the Starship Troopers movie is a glowing praise of militarism and war. I mean, they all cheer about it and smile about battle! The fact is, that just because a story has the trapping of a narrative, does not mean readers of the media will find it a true representation of that narrative. There are two parts to this;

1: Performance.

If all performances were the same, a production of ‘Waiting for Godot’ from a bunch of hastily-schooled homeless would be no less engaging than one by Sir Ian McKellen. The extreme here is valid, I am demonstrating a clear difference.
How does this apply to Trahearne? His voice acting is dull. It is monotonous and lacking in character. I do not see how you could contest this point. His variation in tone is mostly nill, his pace of speech is dogged and constant, and he mistakes emphasis for excitement. He does not falter in pace when talking about his doubts, he just pauses more. He does not raise his voice when trying to rouse troops, he just increases his volume. Theodin, Kirrahe, Henry V and others did not inspire fervor by merely talking loudly, the difference is the same between talking quietly and whispering, they are entirely different ways of using your vocal chords. I am sorry, but I do not think it can be contested that Trahearne is a failed performance, he conveys no emotion (the stuff of character) with almost all of his lines.
In a lesser manner, Trahearne’s relative uselessness as an NPC companion does a similar job of undermining his believably as a military leader with a magic sword as his flat affect does for his commanding rank.

2: Story Structure/Agency.

You say the player is the hero of the story, because we are showered with accolades after victories. I think this is ignoring entirely the issue of agency.

In our personal story up until the introduction of Trahearne, the player character is depicted as a very active agent, both in the narrative and in terms of player choices. The player determines much of their direction within the story, and on a closer level their character expresses expertise and awareness. The early Asura quests are a perfect example of a very active character. The player character injects ideas, objections and observations directly into conversations on their own initiative.
Low-level Asuras surprise others with their actions and intelligence, and often act without the knowledge of their current overseer, Zojja. In one story arc (infinity ball), they disobey Zojja’s express orders to pursue an endeavor suggested by another character, whom they deal with as an equal and whose ideas they develop and contribute to directly.
This agency and initiative vanishes with the introduction of Trahearne. He is an all-knowing Orrian scholar, command figure and information nexus. He directs the player through tasks with only cursory explanations of their larger implications, summons a fort from nowhere (in terms of the player’s own participation) and accompanies players on missions that do not contribute to a larger narrative arc. This is all terribly jarring for those players who did not encounter Trahearne earlier in the story by picking a Sylvari character.
The player is not in control of their own actions, they lack agency, the stuff of heroes. The player does not input anything to the story, they are actors in the unfolding story of the pact, and by extension Trahearne. It is not their own.

Trahearne’s role eliminates player agency, which directly takes the personal out of ‘Personal Story’. This is fairly basic narrative construction stuff, and it’s fairly obvious when you look at the story before and after the introduction of the Marshal. The player ceases to contribute to the story in any meaningful way. It’s the same reason the ending to ME3 was so poorly received, a game based on player agency ends in a sequence devoid of any of that same stuff.

To put it another way; Where there’s smoke there’s fire. Standing in opposition to an unsatisfied majority and telling them they simply don’t understand is missing the point. It doesn’t matter how many technicalities you invoke, a story that fails to resolve the expectations of its readers is a failed story. Unless you mean to imply that Guild Wars 2 is a gigantic deconstruction of the fantasy archetype, in which case I salute your cojones.

Ultrajoe.8674:

How does this apply to Trahearne?

… (message body length, I’m responding to everything removed as well)

In a lesser manner, Trahearne’s relative uselessness as an NPC companion does a similar job of undermining his believably as a military leader with a magic sword as his flat affect does for his commanding rank.

But who contested this? It seems that you’re attacking straw men, and perhaps intentionally leading the topic away from my point. I never said Trahearne’s performance wasn’t bad, it was. I said his voice acting was serviceable even if it was not good. There’s a significant difference between the voice acting of Trahearne and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bangt7d9vGA

You say the player is the hero of the story, because we are showered with accolades after victories. I think this is ignoring entirely the issue of agency.

No, this isn’t what I said it all, but okay, let’s get on to your points…

In our personal story up until the introduction of Trahearne, the player character is depicted as a very active agent, both in the narrative and in terms of player choices. The player determines much of their direction within the story, and on a closer level their character expresses expertise and awareness. The early Asura quests are a perfect example of a very active character. The player character injects ideas, objections and observations directly into conversations on their own initiative.

Agreed, and this persists (albeit in a somewhat diminished form) up until the last few personal missions. You’re actually given more control over what missions you go on during the later part of the game than during, for example, the pact. Your character not only makes more decisions, but plays a more “in charge” role as in many missions you’re the highest ranking character around. Even when you’re not, Trahearne often takes on a somewhat subordinate position and lets you do the leading.

Low-level Asuras surprise others with their actions…

This agency and initiative vanishes with the introduction of Trahearne.

And the example you give is really bad for one reason, your Asuran isn’t part of the military and insubordination is flat out expected in Asuran culture (even if frowned upon at times). You absolutely cannot have that in a military situation. Further, this criticism of yours isn’t even necessarily Trahearne related, so much as it is pact related. Unless we were literally the highest ranking person in the entire military, your criticism would still go through (even if Trahearne didn’t exist).

The player is not in control of their own actions, they lack agency, the stuff of heroes. The player does not input anything to the story, they are actors in the unfolding story of the pact, and by extension Trahearne. It is not their own.

This is actually false. Repeatedly the player not only advises Trahearne/the military. The player is given more control over the missions he partakes in as there are more branching paths later in the story (which directly requires the player to be calling some shots int he story). Further, there are entire mission ARCS dedicated pretty much only to the player (the ones selected by telling the Pale Tree your fear, or the ones where you select which pact operation to go along with).

To put it another way; Where there’s smoke there’s fire. Standing in opposition to an unsatisfied majority and telling them they simply don’t understand is missing the point.

Firstly, it is yet to be demonstrated that the majority is unsatisfied, as it is a well known fact that forums are the vocal minority. From the forums, you’d think this games sucks, is dead, and is horrible. Yet, the game is growing, it has a huge standing population, is critically acclaimed and even has a massive user score on Metacritic. Forums are not a necessarily good sample because they’re OPT IN, that’s statistics 101, literally.

Finally, I’m not discussing the story, I’m discussing Trahearne, so the last bit of your paragraph is pointless. I think the reactions to Trahearne are incredibly overdramatic and poorly thought out. I’m here to show that there are counter arguments, not try to prove that people’s opinions are wrong. Think what you will, I’m debunking bad argumentation, not trying to change overall opinions.

Soon as people start dredging up strawman referencing and post longer than 250 chars – they’re using the forum as training for debate using something they know people will argue with. Trehearne is a hopeless character, with the charm and grace of a lump of wood. I also would have preferred my order mentor to be the one to lead me to victory and trehearne get eaten at claw island.
Please keep arguing about how epic he is though and keep on practising for that debate team.
To OP: Yes, the personal story does lose its feeling of being personal as soon as he comes along, you no longer suggest the choices it becomes trehearne GIVING you two to choose from. the pale tree lady guides you through HIS vision of orr and generally you take the back seat as unimportant fodder.

Talissa Chan.7208:

Soon as people start dredging up strawman referencing and post longer than 250 chars – they’re using the forum as training for debate using something they know people will argue with. Trehearne is a hopeless character, with the charm and grace of a lump of wood. I also would have preferred my order mentor to be the one to lead me to victory and trehearne get eaten at claw island.
Please keep arguing about how epic he is though and keep on practising for that debate team.
To OP: Yes, the personal story does lose its feeling of being personal as soon as he comes along, you no longer suggest the choices it becomes trehearne GIVING you two to choose from. the pale tree lady guides you through HIS vision of orr and generally you take the back seat as unimportant fodder.

This is your way of saying “reason, discussion, forget those, I have my opinion and anyone who disagrees with me is stupid”. Seriously, I never said Trahearne was awesome, nor did I try to argue that. Seriously, hand wave paragraphs of arguments and meticulous thought by claiming someone is wrong and practicing for the debate team… not cool. I also like how, conveniently, I’m the only one you target about this, but not the guy I was responding to who made me do it in the first place. My post wouldn’t have even been so long if I wasn’t replying to a very long post…

Well he is the #1 most knowledgeable person on Orr, so I would like him to be at least near the top of command. You are not the leader for 3 reasons.
1-the orders did not want anyone from another order to be leader
2-cause generals irl don’t fight anyway so don’t complain that you are the one killing everybody.
3-why would you be leader? your just some random guy that has been a member of an order for a few days.
By the end of it you become a member of Destinies Edge and our story will continue from there.

I never saw Trahearne as a bad character, though I agree he could have been written a bit better.
In my opinion he seems like a friend who had a lot of trust in the player character from helping him get over his anxiety of being a leader and helping him on his Wyld Hunt.
He may have been the leader of the pact but I was 2nd in command and always around during the major battles, I guess other characters could have shown that more and acknowledged me a bit better, but I never placed any of those feelings on Trahearne specifically.

I hope he actually shows up more so that he can get fleshed out better so people can stop hating him.

That’s just my opinion anyway.

the prob is not realy that that he is written bad

the prob is that he TAKES the story that is soposed to be about US the Players

Drewan.5681:

Ya pretty much, you do everything an he gets all the acknowledgement.

and he can’t even say CLAW Island correctly.. Clorrilan…

milton.1796:

The personal story is good until he gets involved….
It was all fun and then he comes along and it goes from YOUR story to his….

This is the only thing he’s good for.

Haters will hate… and keep spamming- srsly I would punish you for creating duplicate threads
Trahearne is good character for me