Guild Wars 2

So, I just was helping a guildmate stomp through the Orr personal missions and I was intrigued by this “Tactician Beirne” in “The Steel Tide” before realizing I was standing next to “Crusader Deborah”.

I’m a lore hound. I remember details often enough to realize one thing: lost sister Deborah at some point decided she was joining the Vigil and now she’s in Orr. And Beirne? Was the guy leading the defense of Shaemoor from the tavern way back in the tutorial mission.

Not only that, but the Gear Warband from my norn’s personal story (“Blackout at a previous moot”) were there. The other two players were baffled about where these charr came from and why I went “Oh! It’s Gear Warband.”

Guys . . . what . . . I know I mentioned once before it’d be nice to see previous NPCs showing up. I did not expect them to be shuffled like cards into a pile and dealt out into the Orr storyline.

I get the concept at least. All personal story chapters go on simultaneously and all you follow is the player character as they navigate choices. I took the Priory plan in Orr to check out something in particular there. This was the Vigil plan and I was with the column of tanks I had to rescue during a point with the Priory golem suit.

But as a human character, I completely missed knowing Deborah existed in the offensive at all, and unless I took the Vigil plan my norn would never know what happened after she parted with the Gear Warband.

I’m not sure what I think about this. One part of me (the writer) is saying that it makes sense and the parts fall right where they should. The other (the player) is annoyed that I could so easily miss what became of people I should be keeping aware of.

Did I . . . did I miss an NPC or conversation somewhere about Deborah joining the Vigil?

As far as I am aware no – and you have hit an aspect that niggles me slightly. After the initial family stuff the personal goes out the window. It would have been nice to see each one get into the story that bit more in later stages – or at least turn up in the home zones. It does make sense but it would have been great to see or even inspire

Well . . .

This is going into my small pile of “legitimate stuff which bugs me as a writer” pile, which is next to the somewhat taller “this stuff bugs me as a player” pile. Eventually I’ll have enough to actually blog about it.

I am not sure what bothers you about this. If you pay attention to the story, this gives it replay value. Presumably your character knows a lot of people that are not mentioned in the story. This doesn’t mean (s)he doesn’t know who goes to Orr.

John . . . if I can call you that, please read my post more carefully. I did say I understand where the idea was from, and before you pay attention to the NPCs involved it actually works real well.

The problem comes in when I stop and realize my character’s sister . . . who, I should add, was thought dead until she was saved in the second chapter of my story . . . disappeared from my story entirely and I by chance would run into her in this arc. I wish I had taken “Marching Orders” because in all seriousness I would like to have seen if she was written to remember that her brother is now the Commander.

It bothers me that someone who should be close to my character, who should mean something, just kind of disappears from the world and reappears with no fanfare or hint.

Letters from her during the other chapters wouldn’t have hurt. I mean, Logan saw fit to keep sending them and to my ranger he’s a close ally but not on the same level as his long lost sister he saved from captivity, believed dead until recently.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

his long lost sister he saved from captivity, believed dead until recently.

Personally I also thought it was hilarious how little resolution there was to the sister arc. You finally find your sister after all this time, and she’s basically like “kthxbai!” I know that there are quite a number of possible combinations of personal story elements and it would have been quite an immense task to make the story feel continuous throughout all possible paths, but this arc was kind of an egregious example of bad storytelling.

Elentari.9156:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

his long lost sister he saved from captivity, believed dead until recently.

Personally I also thought it was hilarious how little resolution there was to the sister arc. You finally find your sister after all this time, and she’s basically like “kthxbai!” I know that there are quite a number of possible combinations of personal story elements and it would have been quite an immense task to make the story feel continuous throughout all possible paths, but this arc was kind of an egregious example of bad storytelling.

That’s why I keep winding up saying there needed to be more time attributed to letting the story develop. Some of the problems people have with Trahearne (coming out of nowhere, you don’t get to see him develop, he just kind of “is suddenly there” . . .) could have been solved by adding more dealing with him at an earlier point than Claw Island.

Similarly, there could have been a chapter “easing out” the player from the first two chapters and transitioning from “the problems of your culture and homeland” into “the problems of Tyria”. Chapter three hits hard, and fast, and pulls you along at a fast speed without ever letting you dwell on it.

This has gotten off the track and I should rename the topic to “Personal Story Development” because initially it was the discovery of Deborah fighting in Orr with Beirne and there being something between those two . . . and I really should have had a clue about it. She is my character’s sister.

I can’t think of another personal story section which is supposed to be that intensely connected to your character and also winds up with some open connection at the end.

How I would have done the Personal Story from the get-go is one thing. How I’d “help” the current implementation is another. Anything done to it would be a lot of work; Work I’m not sure wouldn’t be better spent elsewhere, more the shame. But here’s what I’d do, given where we are now.

I’d make the Pact weapons exotic. The reward for Saving the World™ really ought to be a weapon you would actually use at level 80. If you don’t already have one, getting an exotic weapon would be spiffy. If you do, you might not have all your weapons exotics, and if you’re already fully-equipped, nothing short of a precursor would do, and I think that’s probably overkill.

I’d have the current choices you make have a prominent, visible impact in your home district. Did you save your sister? She ought to be there. She ought to have some text to say to you, commenting on the things you do. These don’t have to be voiced cutscenes – but they’d go a world towards making you feel like your choices meant something that you did have an impact on the world.

Finally, I’d extend the early arcs by another 10 levels. The racial story should overlap the order story, and the order story should overlap the Pact. This would go a long way towards alleviating the feeling that the earlier arcs “vanish” – Dealing with the Nightmare Court, the politics of Divinity’s Reach, the Inquest, or Charr Legion intrigues while you “come up to speed” with your order would be great. As would dealing with the aftermath of the Battle for Claw Island on your Order as the Pact comes up to speed.

Given the amount of work that would be, I really don’t expect it to happen. But at unlike the suggestions of scrapping the story and starting over, at least this one wouldn’t remove any content from the game. They could start with the three Orders, and then move back to the earlier stories on an incremental basis.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It bothers me that someone who should be close to my character, who should mean something, just kind of disappears from the world and reappears with no fanfare or hint.

Letters from her during the other chapters wouldn’t have hurt. I mean, Logan saw fit to keep sending them and to my ranger he’s a close ally but not on the same level as his long lost sister he saved from captivity, believed dead until recently.

I did read your post and I understand it. The problem is that even fairly small things like letters take development resources away from other things*. They could have set up your home instance where you go back and visit your friends, order contacts and those you met in your level 11-20 arc, or set up letters or whatever. However, remember (1) they are making the game for everyone including those who pay attention to the story and don’t (and I remember the complaints about GW1 Prophecies when they showed sotry or forced you to read dialogue to know what to do next) and (2) everyone does the gameplay. So developers focus their limited resources on the gameplay when the story is good enough.

I just assume my character is in touch with others. My Charrs write their warbands, my Humans write their childhood friends and sister and my Asura writes her mentor and Krewe. Also remember that the more communication you have with NPCs, inevitably the more words they are putting into your characters mouth (I remember finding this annoying in City of Heroes/Villains especially).

*The messages need to be tested under many circumstances, and even a small problem can lead to lots of need for debugging.

JohnLShannonhouse.1820:

I did read your post and I understand it. The problem is that even fairly small things like letters take development resources away from other things*.

Acutely aware of this, in fact. This is not a demand so much, just commentary on things which could have been done differently.

They could have set up your home instance where you go back and visit your friends, order contacts and those you met in your level 11-20 arc, or set up letters or whatever. However, remember (1) they are making the game for everyone including those who pay attention to the story and don’t (and I remember the complaints about GW1 Prophecies when they showed story or forced you to read dialogue to know what to do next)

Well, it’s part of my bigger complaints that the story flow seems far too fast. Like, Prophecies level fast.

It is, however, my subjective opinion.

I just assume my character is in touch with others. My Charrs write their warbands, my Humans write their childhood friends and sister and my Asura writes her mentor and Krewe. Also remember that the more communication you have with NPCs, inevitably the more words they are putting into your characters mouth (I remember finding this annoying in City of Heroes/Villains especially).

I’ve assumed that, too but . . .then I found this mission and went “what the heck?”