Spoiler alert: About the last quest..
Posted this in the wrong place, so reposting it here.
Yeah, see, that’s kinda the point, I think. The whole bait and switch philosophy of this game. Oh, we want you to TRY grouping up with people, so we’ll trick you into doing almost all of your personal story and then FORCE you to make a group. Or we want you to try our WvWvW zerg fest, so we’re going to let you do all of the world exploration except that last little bit where you have to go into the mists to finish exploring the world of Tyria (how THAT makes sense is beyond me).
Sorry, but it feels forced. If WvWvW was so freaking awesome, you wouldn’t have to force PvE’rs into it. If grouping up with people was just as awesome, you wouldn’t have to trick people into it to complete their personal storyline. They would do it ON THEIR OWN, because they want to.
I know some people love these aspects of the game, but some of us absolutely hate them. Until I ran into these bait and switch aspects, I loved Guild Wars 2. I recommended it to people. I bought copies of it for friends who I thought would enjoy it, but I don’t feel I can recommend it to anyone else.
Here’s the thing, when you feel you have to trick people into playing portions of your game, you have weak portions of the game. I’m sure there are people who love the whole zerg rush crap of WvW, but I’m not one of them. I wouldn’t even be one of them if I was on one of the highest ranked servers that controls all of the WvW maps so that getting my 100% map completion would be a breeze (I wasn’t on one of those servers, but that’s beside the point).
I’m sure some of the WvW players have complaints too. If they don’t want to PvE, they shouldn’t have to. They should get good enough drops that they can afford to massacre each other to their hearts’ content without ever stepping foot into the world of Tyria. I’m all for them getting a “Mists completion” achievement for exploring every nook and cranny of the Eternal Battlegrounds, borderlands, or whatever, but I shouldn’t have to go there for world exploration.
A MMO should be like a good buffet. You should be able to pick the parts you like, and leave other parts for those who do like them. Not a big fan of General Tsao’s Chicken (WvW)? That’s ok – grab a big serving of Chow Mein (PvE), and some Shrimp Fried Rice (Dungeon grouping) if you want. Like a buffet, these things should all be available to you, and you should be able to mix and match them to suit your own tastes. If the restaurant staff mixes everything together and tells you “This is the way you have to eat it. The chef worked hard on the General Tsao’s chicken, so you have to eat some of it, even if you don’t like it,” you’ll quickly find another restaurant. Everything thrown together regardless of personal taste isn’t a good meal – it’s pig slop.
Maybe it is silly of me to still care. I really did enjoy Guild Wars 2, but I got as far as I could progress my character without having to start joining pick-up groups to finish my personal story or going into WvW to get the last few percentage points for World completion.
Heck, I’m just one dude. I doubt A-Net cares that they’ve driven me from the game, after all, they’ve already got my money. Still, I would guess that there are other people who think the same way I do. The first Guild Wars was good enough to make me want to play Guild Wars 2 – and there are parts of the game I still love, but I won’t be logging back in. And, unless I hear of some radical changes, I won’t be back for Guild Wars 3.
Megasnip
Now I’m one of the first in line to comment on the flaws in the personal story and lack of long term accomplishment in WvW, among other things, but… Have you PLAYED an MMO? Heck even on these forums there are people who feel entirely unable to complete content because their precious mainhand weapon can’t do it on its own and they literally never tried any weapons after they got it. MMO communities are the very definition of complacent gaming syndrome and I can basically guarantee half of them would never even notice WvW EXISTED if they didn’t have their noses shoved straight into it.
Rather than filling the forum with multiple posts on the same issue, I’m trying to keep them consolidated. Frankly, the decision to make the final step a 5-man dungeon was made before I joined the story team, so I cn’t provide any insight to the reasoning.
Also, does it not seem logical that one rather obvious way to minimize the workload of having to keep consolidating multiple posts on this issue is to…well…actually have someone address the issue?
Surely we can locate someone who can provide some insight to the reasoning. Please?
Megasnip
Now I’m one of the first in line to comment on the flaws in the personal story and lack of long term accomplishment in WvW, among other things, but… Have you PLAYED an MMO? Heck even on these forums there are people who feel entirely unable to complete content because their precious mainhand weapon can’t do it on its own and they literally never tried any weapons after they got it. MMO communities are the very definition of complacent gaming syndrome and I can basically guarantee half of them would never even notice WvW EXISTED if they didn’t have their noses shoved straight into it.
And if that isn’t where their interest lie, what’s the point? I knew WvW existed, I just had no interest in it. Guess what: after having been forced to participate in it, I still don’t have any interest in it. I dislike PvP in any form. I don’t care about the legendary weapons either, but the world completion achievement percentage is shown on the logon page, and the simple fact that I was 90+% complete when I found out that the other portion of it had to be done in PvP was disappointing to say the least. This is far from the first MMO I’ve ever played – the whole point is that PvP isn’t a new thing. ANet hasn’t discovered the Holy Grail of PvP that is going to magically make me love it. I tried going through WvW, but honestly, I hate it enough I’d rather not play the game. I’m fine with people who love PvP… that’s awesome for them… just don’t try and force everyone to participate who doesn’t want to.
See, that’s one of the issues I have with PvP… some people who love it seem to think that’s the only reason these games exist. I promise you that 99+% of the people playing this game are aware WvW exists… but a lot of us don’t care to be part of it – yet ANet wants to force us to try it. They know best!
It isn’t complacency, it is an informed choice. I don’t enjoy PvP, but I recognize the value of it in games like this. It is an important selling point for some players – I just hate when games force it to be mandatory. I’m glad you tried it and liked it… good for you. I tried it and hated it. Give people a choice.
(edited by lbryant.4329)
If you don’t want to group, don’t play an MMORPG. Simple.
That would be lovely if this game actually promoted grouping, which it does not. Majority of PVE is done solo, all of your personal story except the last mission is done solo. There really is no incentive to group up at all in this game except for dungeons and those have become repetitive activities.
No excuse. There is nothing preventing you from finishing the personal story except you. You don’t want to group, so it’s your fault that you can’t complete the story. When you buy a game in a genre called “Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game” then you should not be surprised or offended when you are required at some point to play with other people.
As people far more eloquent than myself have said in the past: QQ moar, l2p
No excuse? BS!
But I shouldn’t be surprised that your entire post is nothing more than opinion given that your definition of MMORPG is actually just an incorrect opinion as well. MMORGP relates to and is defined by the simultaneous number of players logged in and does is in no way defined by how they interact with each other. While it is true that some of the first MMOs were built to require players to group up if they wanted to progress through the content or in many cases even play the game, the fact is that the genre has evolved since those first MMOs. Now it is standard for players to solo when progressing when they level. In mature MMOs it might even be impossible for players to find groups to complete group content that was easy to do when the game was new, and this is a problem that MMO developers have actually recognized and in some cases solved by either converting previous group content in low level areas into solo content, removing that content or in some way making it easier for players to group up in order to complete that content.
Obviously some newer MMOs have been released with group content in low level areas but this content was horribly implemented and was uncompleteable a few months after the game was released because it was impossible to find enough people to group with in order to finish this content (Aion). This serves as reinforcement and not refutation of the assertion that content meant to be used by players while they are leveling should not require grouping because it will become uncompleteable as players move on and there isn’t a high enough density of players in that level range and area to form a group to complete that content with.
Since this quest is part of a long quest chain that players are expected to complete while leveling then it follows that a good developer would recognize the inability of player’s to find other player’s to do this quest with and therefore inability to complete this quest and would have properly decided not to make this quest a group quest. Furthermore a smart developer would not have made group events in any areas other than the areas for maximum level characters for the same reason.
It also follows that when a quest is meant to be part of a “personal story” then it would not only be soloable but only be soloable because anything else would be impersonal and counter to the idea of being your character’s story. If you see any other player character’s character instead of yours then the story immediately ceases to be a personal story. This is also why the personal story should not have revolved around Trahearne who was clearly the developer’s player character.
(edited by Ellisande.5218)
Amen, Ellisande.5218, amen.
Some of us actually like the challenge of soloing content and exploring the world. It’s nice to know that there is a backdrop there with other people exploring the same stuff and doing other activities, but some of us want to play the game our way. We don’t want to do PvP and we don’t want to group up every time we run into someone else.
For my money, it’s about choice. If I choose to do these things, and find like-minded individuals who feel the same, awesome. But forcing me into this style of playing is not very endearing.
Now, I’m sure a lot of PvP’ers are sneering right now that I’m just an antisocial misfit – well, maybe. However, the first title I got in the game was Combat Medic, a title you get for helping people who are in a downed state (you know, helping them, rather than driving a spear through them). I’ve helped tons of people complete world events, and none of it required partying up with them. I don’t stand around invisible poking walls occasionally or waiting to ambush people, just to make things harder for them to finish what should be a PvE only achievement.
We all started playing this game for different reasons – just like we all have different characters and different play styles. It’s the cheap gimmicks (bait and switch, stick and carrot, etc) that ArenaNet uses to try and force us all into playing the same way that are extremely frustrating.
It isn’t our story. It’s Trahearne’s story. Rather than being the heroes, we’re the background. But then, if someone came up with the Guild Wars 2 equivalent of a 55 Monk, they’d be banned so fast that there would be a sonic boom.
The way I see it, and sorry if anyone’s already done the metaphor (didn’t read through the whole thread), is that it’s like a buffet: one can pick and choose what one wants to eat, and they give a little badge to anyone who eats all the dishes. The existence of the little badge shouldn’t make anyone feel compelled to eat all the dishes, and frankly if one turns up to a buffet aiming to win the little badge instead of enjoying one’s meal then it’s not the restaurant that needs to be having an introspective reassessment of its motives.
Meanwhile, the 5-man dungeon at the end of the personal story is like serving chicken wings in a posh Asian restaurant where you’re expected to only use chopsticks. The Koreans can probably handle it solo but everyone else is SOL.
LFHenchies, have AOE, need Tank & Healer + two ransoms, DPS would be good … (you need to have all the right gear)
:))
this notice was brought to you by a Misguided Misfit
In before: ‘no endgame,’ ‘hate Orr,’ ‘I hate Trahearne,’ and counless other complaints from 4 months ago.
Yeah, the personal story is like…5% group content. I was pretty devastated by this too…
If you don’t want to group, don’t play an MMORPG. Simple.
That would be lovely if this game actually promoted grouping, which it does not. Majority of PVE is done solo, all of your personal story except the last mission is done solo. There really is no incentive to group up at all in this game except for dungeons and those have become repetitive activities.
No excuse. There is nothing preventing you from finishing the personal story except you. You don’t want to group, so it’s your fault that you can’t complete the story. When you buy a game in a genre called “Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game” then you should not be surprised or offended when you are required at some point to play with other people.
As people far more eloquent than myself have said in the past: QQ moar, l2p
No excuse? BS!
But I shouldn’t be surprised that your entire post is nothing more than opinion given that your definition of MMORPG is actually just an incorrect opinion as well. MMORGP relates to and is defined by the simultaneous number of players logged in and does is in no way defined by how they interact with each other. While it is true that some of the first MMOs were built to require players to group up if they wanted to progress through the content or in many cases even play the game, the fact is that the genre has evolved since those first MMOs. Now it is standard for players to solo when progressing when they level. In mature MMOs it might even be impossible for players to find groups to complete group content that was easy to do when the game was new, and this is a problem that MMO developers have actually recognized and in some cases solved by either converting previous group content in low level areas into solo content, removing that content or in some way making it easier for players to group up in order to complete that content.
Obviously some newer MMOs have been released with group content in low level areas but this content was horribly implemented and was uncompleteable a few months after the game was released because it was impossible to find enough people to group with in order to finish this content (Aion). This serves as reinforcement and not refutation of the assertion that content meant to be used by players while they are leveling should not require grouping because it will become uncompleteable as players move on and there isn’t a high enough density of players in that level range and area to form a group to complete that content with.
Since this quest is part of a long quest chain that players are expected to complete while leveling then it follows that a good developer would recognize the inability of player’s to find other player’s to do this quest with and therefore inability to complete this quest and would have properly decided not to make this quest a group quest. Furthermore a smart developer would not have made group events in any areas other than the areas for maximum level characters for the same reason.
It also follows that when a quest is meant to be part of a “personal story” then it would not only be soloable but only be soloable because anything else would be impersonal and counter to the idea of being your character’s story. If you see any other player character’s character instead of yours then the story immediately ceases to be a personal story. This is also why the personal story should not have revolved around Trahearne who was clearly the developer’s player character.
I just like how you assume that you’ve any idea what a smart developer would do.
Get over yourself.
I just like how you assume that you’ve any idea what a smart developer would do.
Get over yourself.
At least I actually present an argument to support my opinion. All you did was try to belittle me.
Come back when you actually feel like presenting more than a quick jab.
When you can say, “not even the SWTOR developers made this mistake” you should know you’ve done something mind numbingly stupid.
“Can you complete the personal story solo” will be the first question I ask when an expansion is due out
Rather than filling the forum with multiple posts on the same issue, I’m trying to keep them consolidated. Frankly, the decision to make the final step a 5-man dungeon was made before I joined the story team, so I cn’t provide any insight to the reasoning.
Is there any chance you can please find out the answer from someone who was on the story team at the time this decision was made Jeffrey and also some indication if this crazy decision will be repeated in any expansions?
I get where the OP is coming from, like in SWTOR your personal story never had to have anyone else in it if you didn’t want to all the way to the end…But I think their reason for this was that you’re reaching max level so they’re trying to introduce you to finding groups for dungeons in a more seamless way than “You’re now finished with your story. Say hello to the brick wall. Now divert your attention over here indefinitely.”
I get where the OP is coming from, like in SWTOR your personal story never had to have anyone else in it if you didn’t want to all the way to the end…But I think their reason for this was that you’re reaching max level so they’re trying to introduce you to finding groups for dungeons in a more seamless way than “You’re now finished with your story. Say hello to the brick wall. Now divert your attention over here indefinitely.”
What is the difference between hitting a brick wall when doing the personal stroy and hitting thr brick wall when looking for a group?
The story cannot be thought of as easing people into learning how to group because it is an abrubt departure that comes of out nowhere which takes on the exact same form as forming a normal group would however it is even harder to get a group for the personal story quest because it offers little tangible reward to players who already finished their personal story quest.
In essence by changing from soloable to group oriented material at the very last quest Anet did say, “Say hello to the brick wall. Now divert your attention over here indefinitely” because this quest could be uncompleteable if you can’t find a group for it.
A proper introduction to grouping (if such a thing were necessary but it is not because most guild wars 2 players already have sufficient MMO experience) would be offering players optional quests during their story line which took them into increasingly harder group oriented dungeons but remained completely optional and allowed the personal story to be completed without doing the optional group oriented dungeons.
If you don’t want to group, don’t play an MMORPG. Simple.
FYI, the ‘G’ in MMORPG doesn’t stand for GROUP
And if it did mean GROUP that would imply that every single person would have to be grouped together. What would a10,000 person group be like? Just think of the endless loot drama.
If the decision to require a 5 man group is carved in stone from on high and will not be changed then allow us to take the stupid kitten personal story reminder from the screen. It’s insulting when you can’t get a group together to finish this up. Not all of are on the US east or west coasts and some of us have very different hours of work and leisure. And as someone has pointed out, the big wave of players is well past this point. There isn’t much help to be had any longer. Let us remove that stupid reminder of Anet’s poor planning that stares us in the face every log in.
I am disappointed with the final battle requiring a group. If I wanted to subject myself to the agonies of group play, I’d go back to WoW.
I’m sure there’s some kind of logic behind why it was done this way, and why the rewards are poor, but I simply can’t see it.
As a customer, I’d like to see future content of this sort to not have the group requirement. To encourage organized groups, try having optional story lines that comprise actually doing nothing but dungeons.
My $.02
note i will attempt to be honest in the most polite and constructive way possible. Apparently i upset a mod a few days back Hopefully truth is listen to here not censored into oblivion.
/Qoute/ Its Zhaitan… If you could solo him that would be great, but really stupid. I havn’t made it to 80 yet so Idk what NPCs are actually with you the instance, but it doesn’t matter he is the Elder Dragon. If you could even in theory solo him it would ruin the immersion for so many people. /Quote/
Overall i think the story pitting the player against an elder dragon and then deciding that’s not believable should have been enough for any developer to rework a poor story concept rather than force dungeon play on the player
lets just be clear dungeons are the worst thing i have seen in 15 years of mmo play and i have played sense 1989 and merdian59 its hard to do that bad.
As far as i can tell there is little to no penalty to death in this game thus the rewards where to high in the dungeons so people farmed them and redeemed to that was to make them oppressively hard.
Most of the time a dungeon can be beating if you bang your head on the wall long enough but most players will quit and this is how they fail once 2 people drop out due to frustration its over.
I think long ago this issue was addressed with lockout timers on end game content in almost every other mmo.
This way the game doesn’t have to be so hard the player wants too quit and also it cant be farmed 20 times a day.
Final thoughts on this game it seem to reenforce solo play then punish players who groups to do a dungeon by bashing there face in some feeble attempt to make it seem worth the end game content reward. which seems to be some token system to buy some gear i have always hated these in mmo why not give the player the chance to get that gear in the dudgeon rather than force repetitive grinding of that same dungeon 20-100 times to get the same gear ?
Graphics 99%
Immersion 110% the dynamic events with npc that go do places and do things is amazing its probably the strongest suit of this game it makes world feel real.
Story 30% pretty predictable and corny in some parts
Game Play 45% Kind of repetitive
Over all about 7 out of 10 playable on long term scale cause its FREE =)
Why doesn’t the game inform us in advance that our Personal Storyline, er sorry, that Trahearne’s Personal Storyline requires forced grouping at the very end? Why can’t we be notified at the start so we can make an informed decision on whether we want to take part in this? How could notification be seen as a spoiler in this case? Would you rather recieve this info, or be decieved till the very end? I for one would never have started it if I had known. This might at least eliminate the huge dissapointment so many have obviously experienced,
Rather than filling the forum with multiple posts on the same issue, I’m trying to keep them consolidated. Frankly, the decision to make the final step a 5-man dungeon was made before I joined the story team, so I cn’t provide any insight to the reasoning.
Wow, no disrespect, but I’m not sure how this is an acceptable answer in any way shape or form. If any of my employees ever answered a question like this they would have to seriously reconsider their position. I don’t mind if you don’t know the answer, but when that happens and you are responsible to a community or group, you don’t just say “wasn’t my decision so I don’t know” you instead either seek out the answer from somebody who does know, or you simply sit quietly.
Frankly, I don’t think we are looking for somebody to blame (or at least not most of us), but would like an explanation of the logic, or if one cannot be found a promise to rectify the offending issue. Any way we can get that perhaps?
It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.
Rather than filling the forum with multiple posts on the same issue, I’m trying to keep them consolidated. Frankly, the decision to make the final step a 5-man dungeon was made before I joined the story team, so I cn’t provide any insight to the reasoning.
Hi Jeffrey! But what are your thoughts or the devs thoughts around you of this issue? Are we going to see this in any future personal stories in your game? Do you think it was a good idea?
So if anyone needs a group for this I could also use the help. Msg me if interested.
Maguuma: Thug Life: [DERP][ME][PYRO] and other assorted dead guilds.
I like may others, are upset at reaching the final quest only to find it’s a dungeon requiring you to group-up, after playing the story line solo. I find it very rewarding to solo a mission as you learn a lot about different tactics, etc. which you’d miss out of playing as part of a group. I suggest that the last quest be made playable as a solo mission, just like the rest of the story line. I managed to complete GW solo and in no way did this detract from it’s enjoyment.
I just made a post about this. Its like a slap in the face from Arenanet. Was solo all the way through and now to finish i need to get a group together and make sure i’m the first one in the dungeon or i won’t get my own cut scene. This has to be one of the worse things i’ve seen in any mmo with a personal so called story. They need to come here and explain this one because i don’t get it at all. Man this really stinks. I wish i could delete the thing from my quest tracker now.
I like may others, are upset at reaching the final quest only to find it’s a dungeon requiring you to group-up, after playing the story line solo. I find it very rewarding to solo a mission as you learn a lot about different tactics, etc. which you’d miss out of playing as part of a group. I suggest that the last quest be made playable as a solo mission, just like the rest of the story line. I managed to complete GW solo and in no way did this detract from it’s enjoyment.
This is basically how I feel. Group play doesn’t mean good play. Solo-able content can be just as epic and rewarding if it’s made well. I did the last step to help get a friend through it. All of my characters on the other hand, will probably never finish their own stories. No matter how I try to look at it, I have an extremely hard time wrapping my head around the way the personal story is built. It’s inconsistent with the way it’s written and the way it’s laid out. Had all of the story mode dungeons been solo-able, the whole personal story experience would have had much better pacing and flow. We also would have had more characters making a return (one of the biggest shortfalls of the PS at the moment) if everyone had been able to experience Destiny’s Edge being re-united for themselves.
That said, I have nothing against group content. I definitely think it’s something that should apart of every MMO, but this is one part of the game where I felt story took a severe back seat because of it.
I know you didn’t make the decision Jeffrey Vaughn, but I really hope that you take the feedback here in consideration. MMOs are ever evolving and they can change for the better if things don’t set well. I’d love to see the day where personal story can redeem itself.
(edited by Nimmi.1650)
Its Zhaitan… If you could solo him that would be great, but really stupid. I havn’t made it to 80 yet so Idk what NPCs are actually with you the instance, but it doesn’t matter he is the Elder Dragon. If you could even in theory solo him it would ruin the immersion for so many people.
But you don’t even kill him.
The turrets on a flying ship that Logain pulls out of his kitten is what kills Zhaitain. And those turrets on that flying ship that Logain pulls out of his kitten would have killed Zhaitain regardless of whether or not you were there. Your involvement in the story during the final quest becomes entirely irrelevent.
Furthermore, soloing Zhaitain would have been epic, being nothing more than one of the many insects that nipped away at Zhaitain’s health is what would have been unepic.
I don’t have a problem with soloing it, but it seemed more epic with 5 team members.
What made it having more people more epic and not less epic for you?
Because imo the more people you bring the less epic the experience becomes.
The last quest is one of the biggest failures of the storyline.
Every other quest was entirely soloable. There is no justifiable reason presented for why this last quest should not also be soloable and in fact I believe there is a very justifiable reason why it should be soloable.
The actual story doesn’t even work. You spend most of the storyline assembling the Pact because Destiny’s Edge demonstrates that it is made up almost entirely of useless children (all the male characters are childish, only Caithe and the female Norn show any semblance of worth). And you assemble the pact for the sole purpose of killing Zhaitain. And during the end of the quest right before the last quest you and everyone else in the pact are assemlbing on the airships to go kill Zhaitain. Then the beginning of the last quest has you in the middle of a cave in the middle of nowhere with zero explanation as to why you are here, how anyone else got here, and no reason given why you aren’t on the airshipping you should have been boarding at the end of the previous storyline quest. No explanation is given as to what happened to the rest of the pact and its airships, you are given no knowledge of what everyone else is doing and suddenly you see Destinie’s Edge all together even though the very last time you saw them they all went their seperate ways which was why you formed the Pact in the first place.
Making the player slay Zhaitain in a group with Destinie’s Edge instead of solo with the Pact is completely antagonistic with the progression of the storyline up to that point in time.
While I echo the dissent over forced grouping, I think there’s a bigger point to be made. The final mission in the personal story is actually lopped off at the end and literally stitched together with a separate storyline: Destiny’s Edge and their reuniting. That is the real tragedy here. I have not done every dungeon, I don’t think many people ever did by the end of their story yet the player is put at the conclusion and redemption of DE likely without ever experiencing that story arc.
It was a mistake to link the two; it cheapened them both. Well as I go back and start working on dungeons, I guess I know how it ends, because I just read the last chapter!
Honestly, the chief failure here is in the scripting of the “personal story”, creating an expectation that is left unfulfilled. The showdown with Zhaitan should be an optional end, not the primary one.
Written properly, I think players would have been satisfied with knowing they were responsible for taking the fight back to the dragon, pounding on his door and leaving it there on whether they personally finished the job or not. Perhaps summoning other great commanders to their aid? (In other words, four other players to complete Arah?)
I get the feeling this conclusion was implied in the Source of Orr, but wasn’t given a dramatic enough finale/reward to feel like a passable ending to the personal story. There is no sense of accomplishment, and that’s a big problem. It’s fine if you want to have defeating Zhaitan be a special and perhaps difficult achievement, but you have to also leave players who are unable to make that step feeling they accomplished something special by seeing the story through to the end. No one likes seeing a project unfinished.
As it stands, I agree that forcing both a raid to open Arah and then four additional players to complete your “personal story” is unacceptable. It will simply lead to more disillusionment from casual players and soloists who do not have the assumed resources of large guilds and multiple friends to accomplish a goal left in the right corner of all of their screens.
There is no way to write this properly because there is no one who could be satisfied with stopping short of the last storyline quest when the entire storyline up to that point was entirely dedicated to killing Zhaitain.
Cleansing Orr was an unimportant sidequest that would have happened anyways once the player had killed Zhaitain and in fact finishing the quest clearly has no actual effect because everything in Orr is exactly the same after that quest as it was before that quest.
In EQ2 and LotRO, I frequently started up a solo questline,
Except with LOTRO Turbine recognised the importance of the Epic quest line .. totally the equivalent of the Personal Story here .. and changed every quest in the Epic line to have a SOLO OPTION .. perhaps Anet should learn from that, especially as the entire PS is soloable until the very last and critical moment.
Arenanet doesn’t even pay attention to their own past work—in GW1, all of the main storylines were soloable from end to end—you were never forced into grouping unless you specifically did a dungeon—none of which were mandatory to complete the storylines.
Honestly, the chief failure here is in the scripting of the “personal story”, creating an expectation that is left unfulfilled. The showdown with Zhaitan should be an optional end, not the primary one.
Written properly, I think players would have been satisfied with knowing they were responsible for taking the fight back to the dragon, pounding on his door and leaving it there on whether they personally finished the job or not. Perhaps summoning other great commanders to their aid? (In other words, four other players to complete Arah?)
I get the feeling this conclusion was implied in the Source of Orr, but wasn’t given a dramatic enough finale/reward to feel like a passable ending to the personal story. There is no sense of accomplishment, and that’s a big problem. It’s fine if you want to have defeating Zhaitan be a special and perhaps difficult achievement, but you have to also leave players who are unable to make that step feeling they accomplished something special by seeing the story through to the end. No one likes seeing a project unfinished.
As it stands, I agree that forcing both a raid to open Arah and then four additional players to complete your “personal story” is unacceptable. It will simply lead to more disillusionment from casual players and soloists who do not have the assumed resources of large guilds and multiple friends to accomplish a goal left in the right corner of all of their screens.
There is no way to write this properly because there is no one who could be satisfied with stopping short of the last storyline quest when the entire storyline up to that point was entirely dedicated to killing Zhaitain.
Cleansing Orr was an unimportant sidequest that would have happened anyways once the player had killed Zhaitain and in fact finishing the quest clearly has no actual effect because everything in Orr is exactly the same after that quest as it was before that quest.
What stopping short? The right way to have ended things is to have a) The last dungeon story ends with Destiny’s Edge leaving wherever they were to head to the battlefield with Zhaitan. And b) the final personal story mission is a solo (or buddy/groupable if you choose, rather than a mandatory group) where you’re at the battlefield, you do some preparatory tasks with the Pact army (taking out defenses, launchers, thinning out the stronger enemies, etc) and then the Edge show up, team up with you much like the Heroes in GW1, and it continues from there.
I fail to see why doing it this way was ever a problem…same as why I fail to see why the only means to gain any sort of reward from the current Living Story is also to do a dungeon.