Guild Wars 2

So, I was playing through my vigil personal story on an alt and being partnered up with Forgal again was awesome! Did anyone else half expect to see him still fighting on Claw island when you busted down the bone wall to get into the fortress?

I did, I was saddened when you didn’t get to, would have been fun.

ANet just had to kill off the mentor we’ve bonded with and replace him with a talking tree.

FateZero.8536:

ANet just had to kill off the mentor we’ve bonded with and replace him with a talking tree.

Lmao.. Oh God.
Am I the only one that notices how useless he is in fights? He has this legendary blade but I killed 7 people before he half kills something..

Proseph.3504:

So, I was playing through my vigil personal story on an alt and being partnered up with Forgal again was awesome! Did anyone else half expect to see him still fighting on Claw island when you busted down the bone wall to get into the fortress?

Yes, I was expecting him to come back as a undead and fight him.
Would of made things interesting, like a student surpassing the master thing.
But no, arena.net can’t tell stories it seems.

Yes, I was expecting him to come back as a undead and fight him.
Would of made things interesting, like a student surpassing the master thing.
But no, arena.net can’t tell stories it seems.

I was expecting the exact same thing. It would have been so brutal, but good storytelling.

Forgal was my favourite NPC. I liked his gruff but fatherly manner.

I still really miss him.

Forgal was a cool character, but I found his voice actor pretty distracting. I can only associate that voice with Colonel Campbell from Metal Gear Solid. That, and Paul Eiding (voice actor) seemed to randomly “forget” what kind of voice to do for the character. Sometimes he’d do a very gruff, almost growling voice, and other times he’d just stop the gruffness and speak normally.

As for Claw Island, Forgal spent 95% of the time dead on the beach. I couldn’t even revive him, because there was a permanent cloud of undead on top of him at all times. For that scene, he was completely useless to me. Too bad, because he seemed to hold his own for the rest of the game.

Fyrebrand.4859:

Forgal was a cool character, but I found his voice actor pretty distracting. I can only associate that voice with Colonel Campbell from Metal Gear Solid. That, and Paul Eiding (voice actor) seemed to randomly “forget” what kind of voice to do for the character. Sometimes he’d do a very gruff, almost growling voice, and other times he’d just stop the gruffness and speak normally.

As for Claw Island, Forgal spent 95% of the time dead on the beach. I couldn’t even revive him, because there was a permanent cloud of undead on top of him at all times. For that scene, he was completely useless to me. Too bad, because he seemed to hold his own for the rest of the game.

I had this issue to, it took me 40 minutes to revive Mira (I think that’s her name) as Undead kept spawning directly on her.

How odd … Forgal dead on the beach??? LMAO
You must have been busy fighting your own battles …
My character fought by his side … we surived to the point where he made the last sacrifice to ensure the safe exit of the survivors which is supposed to be led by you.
You don’t have to necessarily fight every battle and kill everything …
some actions require you to avoid combat when possible to succeed with the objective.
But if fighting till your last dieing breath is your way of doing things besides thinking tactically, more power to you.

Having him either survive or return as a Risen enemy would somewhat diminish the epicness of the conclusion of his Legend.

Oglaf.1074:

Having him either survive or return as a Risen enemy would somewhat diminish the epicness of the conclusion of his Legend.

I think it would be awesome if he (or at least some noteworthy character) actually fell to the Risen and came back to fight you against their will. Zombies are so overplayed these days, but if you’re going to have them in your story, why leave out one of the tropes that could actually serve as dramatic tension? As far as I can recall, nobody in this game who you ever meet gets turned into a Risen, forcing you to fight them in a tragic battle. Forgal’s a big guy and a good fighter, I could totally believe Zhaitan expending a little extra effort into turning a fresh one like him into some kind of “super-Risen” mini-boss. Maybe in the end he tries to resist, or even comes to his senses in his final moments and is ashamed of what he let become of his “legend.” Then you can be nice and just tell people he died honorably.

Seriously, did anyone you meet ever get turned? How could this not have happened?

I think it happens in the Charr storyline.

There are instances of NPC’s being turned into risen in the story line. In the first cleansing attempt by Trahearn at the tombs, the Norn woman was turned and had to be killed.

I remember at some point after doing Claw island on my Order of Whispers character I was in the southern part of Bloodtide Coast and got hit by a Risen ambush. When the ambush was triggered one of the risen yelled out something like “Tybalt sends his regards!” which made me think he’d show up as an undead somewhere.

Ok… Forgal died on claw island for me a few hours ago. And just NOW i got into a DE event in regular PvE in bloodtide coast, named “Avenge Forgal”. The Undead commander even said “You should have died with Forgal!”.

Personal story haunt me everywhere!

^
Yes, I’ve found that recently. He spawns every time I’m passing that place, though it’s Tybalt in my main’s case.

I have a question though regarding my char that had Forgal as mentor. In the Vigil Keep, in the instance chamber where Almorra resides, there’s a desk next to the stairs, with a scroll on it. If you highlight the scroll, it says “Note from Forgal”, but I can’t read (F doesn’t work) the contents of the scroll.

All my characters in the instance see this scroll, but none including the one who joined the Vigil can’t read it. Anyone knows something about it?

I’ve never seen that DE, but I’ve heard about it from multiple people. Maybe I’m looking in the wrong place?

It drives me crazy not to be able see that scroll. My Ranger really wants to read the note he left.

The seal on that scroll must be very hard indeed to break.

And I also expected to find a Risen Forgal somewhere. I suppose there was not so much left to resurrect after his death. And a Risen Forgal’s Arm attacking you in a later encounter would have been too funny, or even something like a maimed Python’s Black Knight. That must be the truth of it or it wouldn’t make sense not to rise a ‘powerful norn warrior’ from death for Zhaitan’s further use.

Btw, I really blurted into laughter the first time when after the moving Forgal’s last stand speech, you can instantly see a Fallen Ally mark on the map on that spot. SO MUCH for the epic last stand fight.

Fyrebrand.4859:

Oglaf.1074:

Having him either survive or return as a Risen enemy would somewhat diminish the epicness of the conclusion of his Legend.

I think it would be awesome if he (or at least some noteworthy character) actually fell to the Risen and came back to fight you against their will. Zombies are so overplayed these days, but if you’re going to have them in your story, why leave out one of the tropes that could actually serve as dramatic tension? As far as I can recall, nobody in this game who you ever meet gets turned into a Risen, forcing you to fight them in a tragic battle. Forgal’s a big guy and a good fighter, I could totally believe Zhaitan expending a little extra effort into turning a fresh one like him into some kind of “super-Risen” mini-boss. Maybe in the end he tries to resist, or even comes to his senses in his final moments and is ashamed of what he let become of his “legend.” Then you can be nice and just tell people he died honorably.

Seriously, did anyone you meet ever get turned? How could this not have happened?

This happened in the Char story line when you first meet the Orders. One of your dead warband gets turned into a Risen. Though I didn’t really care ’cause I never got to meet him before he died in the very first event of the game..

I hated Forgal at first just from the snippets I played in other people’s stories, until I had him in my own storyline. His kittenness is epic.

“Ebonhawke, fall? The hell it will. The hell it will, while I’m here!” That line right there sold me on him. Holy crap this guy is a badkitten lol. I know that in Claw Island he dies a lot, but the whole rest of the game he is a monster. Hats off in honour of you, Warmaster, may the skaalds always sing of your bravery!

I hated Forgal. His treatment of my character or even his necessity simply didn’t make sense. I could understand the idea of having a mentor if my character is level 1 and first beginning, and indeed I really did like the mentor I was given (Caithe). By the time I had Forgal my character was already an established and well respected Sylvari hero. Turning me from a hero into a rookie made about as much sense as saying that Microsoft is going to headhunt the CEO of Google and then make him work in the mail room. Those things just don’t make any sense.

Ellisande.5218:

I hated Forgal. His treatment of my character or even his necessity simply didn’t make sense. I could understand the idea of having a mentor if my character is level 1 and first beginning, and indeed I really did like the mentor I was given (Caithe). By the time I had Forgal my character was already an established and well respected Sylvari hero. Turning me from a hero into a rookie made about as much sense as saying that Microsoft is going to headhunt the CEO of Google and then make him work in the mail room. Those things just don’t make any sense.

That’s interesting, because I had the opposite reaction. I felt like prior to joining the Vigil, my character was being praised out of all proportion to her deeds, and I think she would have felt a bit embarrassed about it.

It was kind of nice to meet an NPC who wasn’t totally awed by her minor hometown good deeds.

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

Ellisande.5218:

I hated Forgal. His treatment of my character or even his necessity simply didn’t make sense. I could understand the idea of having a mentor if my character is level 1 and first beginning, and indeed I really did like the mentor I was given (Caithe). By the time I had Forgal my character was already an established and well respected Sylvari hero. Turning me from a hero into a rookie made about as much sense as saying that Microsoft is going to headhunt the CEO of Google and then make him work in the mail room. Those things just don’t make any sense.

That’s interesting, because I had the opposite reaction. I felt like prior to joining the Vigil, my character was being praised out of all proportion to her deeds, and I think she would have felt a bit embarrassed about it.

It was kind of nice to meet an NPC who wasn’t totally awed by her minor hometown good deeds.

Did you play as a Sylvari? I think they do a much better/worse (because then it becomes interolerable when Forgal treats you like you haven’t done a single thing) making the Sylvari out to be a hero before you join an order. Plus you have all the accomplishments from when you leveled up. I think by the time I first met Forgal I was 10-12 levels higher than he was. And from a RPG standpoint that means I had considerably more experience than he could have had.

Well what accomplishments does Forgal have which makes him a better judge than your character? Does he ever even give you so much as his resume?

In this instance he is a lot of like Trahearne in that the player is simply expected to think that Trahearne is amazing solely on the grounds that every NPC is always like “There goes the amazing Trahearne” and yet not once do the NPCs ever enumerate what exactly Trahearne did to be considered amazing.

Ellisande.5218:

Did you play as a Sylvari? I think they do a much better/worse (because then it becomes interolerable when Forgal treats you like you haven’t done a single thing) making the Sylvari out to be a hero before you join an order.

I’ve since played all the races to that point, but my first play-through was on a human, and I think that the first time you see the storyline tends to affect your perception on later characters too.

My first character was a Sylvari, joined the Vigil. He plays the old war veteran archetype, and so that’s why you don’t like him. But, you fail to realize he is Norn. Norn don’t give a kitten what you did before you met them. Actions speak louder than words.
As for Trahearne, as a Sylvari you should know exactly why he’s so important. He’s one of the firstborn, and has the most knowledge about Orr besides maybe a Priory historian. He’s got first-hand experience with being on Orr, and it’s basically his life purpose to cleanse it.

Mystic Starfish.2586:

My first character was a Sylvari, joined the Vigil. He plays the old war veteran archetype, and so that’s why you don’t like him. But, you fail to realize he is Norn. Norn don’t give a kitten what you did before you met them. Actions speak louder than words.
As for Trahearne, as a Sylvari you should know exactly why he’s so important. He’s one of the firstborn, and has the most knowledge about Orr besides maybe a Priory historian. He’s got first-hand experience with being on Orr, and it’s basically his life purpose to cleanse it.

That’s all he is. A firstborn with some knowledge of Orr but he is hardly the only one with that knowledge. And to be honest he doesn’t even have all that much knowledge. You spend most if not all the Orrian quests running around Orr trying to gather knowledge becaue Trahearne has no information which could help you. That isn’t exactly a long resume and certainly one that is going to get you a job as the leader of a military organization. And if he is a Priory historian then that only adds more fuel to the fire because he isn’t even able to meet the requirement of being neutral at that point.

And the idea of the old war veteran has certain prerequisites that Forgal just does not meet, chiefly experience and ago. He is in his late 30s to early 40s (I’m assuming that people age a lot more quickly given their much lower average life spans) and was only level 30ish? 40ish? at the time. There was absolutely no character development and you never find out a single thing about his past. But the problem here is that you are comparing one person with an unknown past (Forgal) to another person with a known past whose accomplishments you had just spent the last 50 levels watching.

If you agree to take someone into your organization on the grounds that they accomplished quite a bit before joining your orginization and then treat them like they know nothing by making them work as a mail clerk then you are a fool who is wasting their time and yours. And it would be highly unlikely for the Norn or any culture to not value prior accomplishments considering every single culture we have ever known that has actually existed has in fact valued prior accomplishments. Having rituals, beliefs, and a government and generally a culture all depend on valuing prior accomplishments.

Are you really using levels, a completely meta game mechanic for the sake of player progression and something never actually acknowledged as existing in actual lore, to justify why a character must be less experienced than you?

Norn live longer than humans do—they can get to 120 . Forgal is more likely around 70-80 years old.

And true, you don’t find out a lot of Forgal’s past, especially if you don’t dig into the dialogue during the quests—but that’s really a general fault of a lot of characters in the personal story, and the way it rushes characters in and out of the story.

The Norn not valuing past accomplishments isn’t really accurate, because a lot of their culture revolves around creating a rich history about themselves that will continue well past their death. Forgal not caring is a personal thing, and really more a warning that he expects you to prove yourself capable regardless what anyone has said about you before—basically, to not ride on the coattails of your fame (which actually does fit into the Norn idea that they never stop making their legend, even if they’ve accomplished great things. They just keep on going).

And for every race, regardless how much of a personal hero you are to your own people, you’re joining a new, organized group that has their own way of doing things. you have to start at the beginning and learn the rules, and when you prove yourself able to do that and that you can play nicely with everyone else you’ll notice just how quickly you shoot through the ranks because you are capable. Most characters (except Charr) also don’t have any experience working for a hierarchy organization like that—you’re wanna-be adventurers, and just because you save a few people from burning builds doesn’t mean you get to enter the military as a Sergeant.

Forgal mentions that his father was the last Dolyak Shaman. When did the Spirit of Dolyak die? That might put Forgal’s own age into more of a perspective.

Dolyak/Ox was one of the Spirits that stayed back to hold off Jormag while the Norn fled South and was lost, so that was about a century and a half ago. That’d be super old even by Norn standards so I suspect Forgal wasn’t born then, but even if we assume his father was only in his 20s-30s at the time they fled 70-80 is about the youngest we could reasonably assume he is, and if his father had him late in life. He could be upwards to even 100, I’d say—Norn do keep their health for much longer into their old age.

Mentioning levels at all in a game that sets the level you are supposed to be based on the zone you’re in (even story zones) is kinda pointless IMO.

I’ll admit two thoughts came up when I read his dialogue about my character being a second child to him.

1. Wow, that’s a nice touch. I’m actually glad he said something like that.
2. Whenever I hear that or “3 weeks until retirement” it means you’ll be dead soon. Bummer.