Guild Wars 2

Maybe I am overreacting, but I played the series of mission about the krait (Wet Work, Intercepting the Orb, Liberating Apatia).

The game wanted to feel sad for the loss of Apatia (making an innocent suffer). Well, I don’t feel sorry for her AT ALL.

Here is why: Apatia helped me taking away the orb from the Krait. The same orb that was the only thing standing between their city and the corruption of Orr.

Apatia got captured and turned into an undead along with the krait. Well, the very thing she heleped doing made her turn into an undead. She kinda deserved it. And we, as player characters, would have deserved it if that would have happened to us.

Tha thing that made fell REALLY bad was the fact that, by taking away the orb, I condemned the krait tower and all its inhabitants to a horrible death.

And it’s kinda a big blow when in the last mission we are attacked by the victims of the curroptions.

Yes, our victims. We let a whole city being wiped out.

However, what I wanted to note is that this part of the personal story was good. Good soundtrack, good atmosphere. And it made you feel involved. But not for the intended reasons: I didn’t feel sorry for Apatia. I felt sorry for all the people in the city. I think some NPC, at some point, should have noticed in one way or the other that what we did wasn’t the honorable thing to do.

Yeah, they were slavers, but we stole from them something they needed to survive. We didn’t even faced them directly. We let someone else do the dirty job, in a cruel way.

Even better: an outraged Krait that dramatically remembers us what we did (with stuff like: “my parents died making me escape”).

What do you think?

I think this is a troll thread.

What? No!

Ok, you didn’t feel the same way. Maybe it’s me.XD

I wanted to note that, for once, a mission was half nice even with the presence of salad marshal.

Yeah. Not wasting a tear on the kraitt. Not a single one doesn’t attack me on sight, enslave and eat every other race. No redeeming value, except as leather for making kraitt skin armour, as Apatia suggests. Hope the devs introduce that as a craft sometime. I’m there.

Don’t like the asura either. To much time spent listening to npc chatter. They all come off as the types Josef Mengela would be proud of, nay, envious. Well, most of them. There are exceptions that I do like. But they just make the rest look worse by comparison. No, that whiny prat in DE isn’t one of them. I’ve wanted to kill her since my first toon.

Oh, and one city doesn’t genocide make. Might wanna look up what that word actually means, before cheaply tossing it around.

Sleel.8365:

Yeah. Not wasting a tear on the kraitt. Not a single one doesn’t attack me on sight, enslave and eat every other race. No redeeming value, except as leather for making kraitt skin armour, as Apatia suggests. Hope the devs introduce that as a craft sometime. I’m there.

Don’t like the asura either. To much time spent listening to npc chatter. They all come off as the types Josef Mengela would be proud of, nay, envious. Well, most of them. There are exceptions that I do like. But they just make the rest look worse by comparison. No, that whiny prat in DE isn’t one of them. I’ve wanted to kill her since my first toon.

Oh, and one city doesn’t genocide make. Might wanna look up what that word actually means, before cheaply tossing it around.

You know, they made skin armors of charrs just some time ago.

Yeah, sorry, genocide was exhaggerated. I thought that was the only home for the krait. And that by letting it getting swarmed by the norn, I forced them to exhile.

I don’t think the krait were good people, but we took away from them a way to defend from a common enemy. One thing is to kill a Krait by facing him. One other thung is killing them by stealing something.

Apatia, a vigil norn, should at least address the fact what we are doing is not honorable.

the kraits are probably the first race everyone would sell to the elder dragons. Even the centaurs can be reasoned with. Kraits? Every one you kill is a favour to the continent.

Or think about it this way, if you let them have the orb any longer they will enslave more good people.

Wukunlin.8461:

the kraits are probably the first race everyone would sell to the elder dragons. Even the centaurs can be reasoned with. Kraits? Every one you kill is a favour to the continent.

Or think about it this way, if you let them have the orb any longer they will enslave more good people.

Well, if I were a human, I’d rather sacrifice the Charr. You know, those guys wiped out an entire nation and, if the peace treaty doesn’t hold, might exterminate my kind.

Krait at worst enslave some people, not many (I’ve never seen them considered as a great menace like centaurs, ghosts, the Flame Legion or the Inquest). From what I have seen, but I am probably wrong, they mostly enslave beings near their territory. Their society is too static to threaten whole Tyria.

If I was a charr, I’d rather exterminate other races, who are a much worse competitor.

What I meant is that this plot twist was really strong, and a bit upsetting, especially if suggested by a soldier who should value honorable fights above everything else.

And we let the eggs be corrupted. Those kraits were innocent.

Don’t misunderstand me, I’d still do it. But I’d want at least ONE NPC to note this fact for at least a second.

Really, should I feel sorry for Apatia? After all, if she got caught and turned into an undead is her own kitten fault for underestimating the krait. She is not innocent by any means.

… You feel sorry for a race of evil creatures that enslave good people? The five races aren’t trying to ‘compete’ with each other, they’re trying to work with each other to fight the dragons. The krait are actively getting in the way of that. If it wasn’t for the Pact they would all be killed by the dragons anyway.

AlexMc.2083:

… You feel sorry for a race of evil creatures that enslave good people? The five races aren’t trying to ‘compete’ with each other, they’re trying to work with each other to fight the dragons. The krait are actively getting in the way of that. If it wasn’t for the Pact they would all be killed by the dragons anyway.

Well, the fact about the peace treaty is new. Separatists are right: if it’s true the human were on the edge of extinction, more than a peace treaty the peace is a show of mercy. If I were a human, I’d still think the charr are a race of enemies. And as a charr, I might aswell think we should finish the job with humans for all they did to my race (such as wearing the skins of my ancestors: what the Kraits do is not much worse).

It’s not about feeling sorry. I thin it’s also a good point into the plot, but seems like the story doesn’t aknowledge that.

I think this is a pretty interesting way to look at it. I hadn’t considered it. It’s nice when a quest gives us a moral question to ponder instead of just “fight fight fight.”

I felt sad for Apatia because she told me she didn’t like our plan and I forced her to do it anyway, but yeah—this is interesting.

Sitkaz.5463:

I think this is a pretty interesting way to look at it. I hadn’t considered it. It’s nice when a quest gives us a moral question to ponder instead of just “fight fight fight.”

I felt sad for Apatia because she told me she didn’t like our plan and I forced her to do it anyway, but yeah—this is interesting.

Well, that also depends on the choices you make. I decided to follow her plan, so maybe I had less reasons.

I wasn’t obviously thinking abou something like “WAAAAAH, those poor Kraaaaaiiiits!”, but something more liike “I’ve never killed so many enemies before, without looking in their eyes, first”.

Just little tweak to make a good piece even better.

Sure, we can chose not to steal their precious orb, saving their city and helping their plan to flood the world by the arrival of their great prophet – DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY PLAYERS HATE UNDERWATER COMBAT 100% ALL THE TIME (if this happens)!

Empressium.5482:

Sure, we can chose not to steal their precious orb, saving their city and helping their plan to flood the world by the arrival of their great prophet – DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY PLAYERS HATE UNDERWATER COMBAT 100% ALL THE TIME (if this happens)!

Really, are you afraid of those eels? They are pathetic!XD

Actually, it’s all a masterplan made by engineers: if the whole world is flooded, we will rule the world with auto-targeting grenades and 3-dimensional bombs! MUHAHAHAHAHA!

Krait are evil, so it’s fine.

The krait wouldn’t show you the same respect. They enslave, kill, and eat other races and have a sense of superiority over other races. And this isnt just one group of krait, this is every krait I have ever seen. So good, let them die a horrible death in the same way they have forced other people to die horrible deaths. I have no sympathy for the krait.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The krait wouldn’t show you the same respect. They enslave, kill, and eat other races and have a sense of superiority over other races. And this isnt just one group of krait, this is every krait I have ever seen. So good, let them die a horrible death in the same way they have forced other people to die horrible deaths. I have no sympathy for the krait.

But two wrongs don’t make a right.

You can’t convince me that was a honorbale deed. Not something a Vigil would do and boast about, but something that would come up with: “it was the right thing to do, even if I didn’t like it”.

And… well, also Ogres are orribly aggressive. Why do I have some of those filthy monsters around while I do my missions, only because someone ordered me to help them?

redslion.9675:

Well, the fact about the peace treaty is new. Separatists are right: if it’s true the human were on the edge of extinction, more than a peace treaty the peace is a show of mercy. If I were a human, I’d still think the charr are a race of enemies. And as a charr, I might aswell think we should finish the job with humans for all they did to my race (such as wearing the skins of my ancestors: what the Kraits do is not much worse).

It’s not about feeling sorry. I thin it’s also a good point into the plot, but seems like the story doesn’t aknowledge that.

Krait are the one race among all sentient races that can be called “evil”, no sympathy for them on my side. They would have gone on doing evil if the orb hadn’t been taken from them. And i feel for Apatia, seeing how much she had to suffer at the hands of them. For me it was one of the saddest moments in the game.

Another point, without the orb the Pact would not have been able to establish Fort Trinity and the entire assault against Orr and Zhaitan would have been much more difficult, causing much more suffering among all other races. Is this worth it in your opinion? I’m just curious.

And please tell me what humans did to the Charr. Let’s then compare it to what the Charr did to humanity for 1250 years, and i’ll give you a free Althea’s Ashes in GW1.

The peace treaty is to end such comparisons and accusations made by members of both species.

The Charr in the original Guild Wars were not exactly victims by the way, just monsters one killed. They were changed from “evil” to “noble beasts” to become a playable race in GW2.

You don’t have to feel sympathy to understand this was not the “easy” wai out of the problem, and it was kind of a coward way to get rid of the Krait. And that’s a good thing.

I wouldn’t have said the same thing if you took the orb by going with an army directly into the slave tower, slaying every single one of them, burning their eggs, killing their newborns and so on.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior_Charr_Hide_armor

I’d be pretty upset if someone did this to one of my kind. Maybe we did something to them too, but that would mean we are sworn enemies, and a treaty can’t be enough to smother the ostility in anyone.

And… well, according to the wiki, charrs were pushed away from their homeland by humans.

Frosch.7809:

Apatia, seeing how much she had to suffer at the hands of them. For me it was one of the saddest moments in the game.

She brought all of this to herself. Hadn’t I stole the orb under her suggestion, she wouldn’t have turned into an undead and she would have been still alive when we came to save her. The krait enslaved her. We let Zhaitan turn her into an undead. She called it to herself as the Krait did.

She was just a foolish soldier who paid the price for underestimating her enemies.

The most important fact is that, for the first time, you see ENEMIES DIE INDIRECTLY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF YOUR ACTIONS. That’s a pretty strong thing. Considering they faced the fate you and the whole Pact are trying to avoid. I know it’s the right thing to do. I know maybe Kraits deserved it. Still, it’s kinda unsetting.

Apatia is pretty young and not overly experienced and looks up to you, the Commander of the Pact, and her getting captured is outside of your control. You can’t really blame her for getting captured. Blame yourself, or Trahearne maybe, although the ones to blame are the Krait and Zhaitan. Foolish? I would not call her that.

You have to leave her behind for the greater good of everyone – i would have tried to save her immediately if given the chance. No one shall be left behind imo. Saying she brought this to herself sounds somewhat cynical to me – in theory it could also have been you who got captured, you were taking the same risk as Apatia, so you would have to call your own actions foolish as well. And your character wants to save her immediately but you got your hands full with defending Fort Trinity – again you have to sacrifice her for the greater good.

So the Krait get turned into undead, so what? They deserved it, yes. Apatia didn’t deserve her fate. You don’t like her as a character, nothing wrong with that, but please don’t blame her for something no one will see as an injustice, the death of some Krait.

About the Charr, i would gladly discuss this with you despite having done so plenty of times already, but this is not the thread for it. Just let me tell you that Ascalon was not the Charr’s homeland originally, that it had become homeland for humanity after living there for a thousand years, and that making armor out of Charr does not really compare to their deeds in GW1 – they eat humans, burn them alive, committ genocide upon them etc. But this is GW2, different times, nations try to make peace with one another, and the time of accusations is over. Just consider that it is the Charr’s nature to wage war upon others, and that hasn’t changed yet.

She didn’t know her limits. Soldiers who don’t know their limits make mistakes. And soldiers that make mistakes die.
You already saw many dying before. Why should she be different? Only because she looks up to you?

She was fighting, she attacked the krait, she deserved it. This is war, not Star Wars. If you attack someone, prepare to be killed. Not just because your name is shown means you are special.

What I meant is: after all those years, Charrs have good reasons to hate humans, humans have good reasons to hate Charrs. At least not to be extremely happy about seeing each other, even if they respect peace.

And about my character: the difference is I had enough power to take the orb. She didn’t and, worst of all, didn’t realize it. She was arrogant. Arrogance bears a high price to pay.

If I got defeated, I would have deserved to be caught. And killed. I wan’t attacking slavers. I was attacking people defending their homeland. They weren’t out for capturing slaves at the moment.

Indeed there are many other deaths of NPC’s in the personal storyline that aren’t given the same attention as Apatia’s, not even your Mentors, but that is due to the mechanics of the personal storyline and something that i see as a flaw.

Only in one of the two options where Apatia gets captured does she make a mistake, and i think blaming her for it is too harsh a judgement. She is also not responsible for our inability to immediately save her, and even Trahearne hopes that one can still save her when you finally go to do so. She did not deserve what happened to her, but of course you can be of a different opinion here.

My opinion also differs when it comes to the Krait being people who defend their homeland, they deserve what they got for all their evil deeds.

I do agree that both Charr and humans have reasons to hate each other, and i am of the opinion that the transition from arch-enemies to people who learn to cooperate, for example in the three Orders, comes much too fast. I think that the Charr have far less reasons to hate humanity than vice versa though, as they had been the aggressor for a far longer time than humanity.