Guild Wars 2

The inclusion of WvW completion in map completion has been a recurring topic for debate. One side wishes to leave WvW completion out of map completion entirely while another wishes to keep the system as is.

Some issues with the current system:

1) World vs. World vs. World takes place in the Mists, which are canonically NOT part of the Tyrian map. They are, in a sense, part of an entirely different map.

2) World vs. World is a system not controllable by the player. Depending on the player’s server, map completion can be a highly unreasonable task requiring a large time frame and heavy dedication to a game mode that they may or may not find enjoyable or even acceptable.

3) Map completionists take away from their server’s WvW efficiency. While the main force goes on to take another camp/fort/tower/etc., the PvE player is compelled – forced, really – by bad mechanics to split from the group and get that skill point or find that point of interest/vista. Each of those PvE players adds up, especially when you factor in the not unconsiderable number of players who are already doing the jumping puzzle to avoid certain PvP.

4) While 500 badges are required for the legendary, it is feasible – and LIKELY that a player will obtain 500 badges without completing the WvW map… or even coming close. WvW completion is entirely reliant on the sheer momentum and success of your server in capturing points and pushing into further points.

Now, I already have my Gifts of Exploration. It required a full on server transfer back when they were free and took a significant amount of effort. And I was LUCKY, for that matter. I just happened to be on a server that steamrolled its competition on all fronts with the only missing points being a quick transfer away. For those that are on servers that are stuck into their tier and into their color, World completion is surely a migraine.

Thus, I propose one of three simple compromises:

A) 1 gift of exploration for PvE completion, 1 for WvW completion. It’s an even divide. If you want a second gift but don’t want to repeat the entire PvE world on another character, you have to complete WvW. Furthermore, you could get a gift without ever completing the PvE world.

B) 1 Gift of Exploration for PvE completion, 2 for WvW completion. A gift is added to PvE completion, totalling 3 possible gifts of exploration per character. WvW becomes worth 2, making it the quickest (but most challenging) route to completion success.

C) Map completion becomes based on completing x%. Add more waypoints, vistas, etc. to the map (such as counting new zones like Southsun and Dungeon Waypoints and Points of Interest). When you get the required percentage, you get your gifts.

That would be totally imbalanced. If you’re on a server that totally annihilates the other two, getting 100% on only the WvW maps would take less than an hour. And it would still be impossible if you’re on an underdog server.

In essence, your suggestion does not touch the core problem here.

Oglaf.1074:

That would be totally imbalanced. If you’re on a server that totally annihilates the other two, getting 100% on only the WvW maps would take less than an hour. And it would still be impossible if you’re on an underdog server.

In essence, your suggestion does not touch the core problem here.

Hmm?

In what way would an underdog server be incapable of getting gifts of exploration if they could get one without ever going into WvW?

And yes, the 1 gift for PvE, 2 for WvW might need to be remedied to 1 gift for PvE, 1-2 more for PvE+WvW combined.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Oglaf.1074:

That would be totally imbalanced. If you’re on a server that totally annihilates the other two, getting 100% on only the WvW maps would take less than an hour. And it would still be impossible if you’re on an underdog server.

In essence, your suggestion does not touch the core problem here.

In what way would an underdog server be incapable of getting gifts of exploration if they could get one without ever going into WvW?

That is the problem. WvW should not be included in getting Gifts of Explorations in the first place. Mapping all the WvW maps should give you something related to that game mode instead.

Oglaf.1074:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Oglaf.1074:

That would be totally imbalanced. If you’re on a server that totally annihilates the other two, getting 100% on only the WvW maps would take less than an hour. And it would still be impossible if you’re on an underdog server.

In essence, your suggestion does not touch the core problem here.

In what way would an underdog server be incapable of getting gifts of exploration if they could get one without ever going into WvW?

That is the problem. WvW should not be included in getting Gifts of Explorations in the first place. Mapping all the WvW maps should give you something related to that game mode instead.

It does. It gives Badges of Honor/Blueprints.

Gift of exploration is for Legendary weapons, which can be used in PvE AND WvW.

Legendaries require players to experience the full game pvp and pve. It makes sense that you would have to explore both pve and pvp maps.

The underdog argument is losing it’s validity. The WvW team is doing wonders to set similar servers with each other. If your server is always beat to the ground tell arenanet to fix WvW, not remove pvp map exploration.

That’s why we have Gift of Battle. I guess you guys forgot about that one.

No I haven’t, but I don’t see why we need to remove WvW map completion requirment just because we have Gift of Battle.

It makes zero sense.

Oglaf.1074:

That is the problem. WvW should not be included in getting Gifts of Explorations in the first place. Mapping all the WvW maps should give you something related to that game mode instead.

It’s definately Legendary to avoid the Mist War and not conquer towers, keeps and castle to earn POI’s and Vista’s

My favourite of the suggestions I’ve heard for map completion is to have PvE only versions of the WvWvW maps which award only PvE benefits (no badges, no blueprints). That would get PvE completionists out of WvWvW slots, freeing them up for contributing PvP players. To get a Legendary, you’d still have to compete in WvWvW (to get the necessary badges for the Gift of Battle).

DryHumour.1307:

My favourite of the suggestions I’ve heard for map completion is to have PvE only versions of the WvWvW maps which award only PvE benefits (no badges, no blueprints). That would get PvE completionists out of WvWvW slots, freeing them up for contributing PvP players. To get a Legendary, you’d still have to compete in WvWvW (to get the necessary badges for the Gift of Battle).

I think this is a great idea as long as it doesn’t let the players get Gift of Exploration. There is nothing Legendary about avoiding pvp combat and not fighting to earn your POIs and Vista’s.

Concerning Legendary seekers:
Are there any PvP’ers out there complaining that there aren’t more PvP requirements? We are forced to do dungeons, to farm T6 materials, to complete dailies and monthlies that sometimes include dungeons and jumping puzzles and holiday pve stuff so we can play the mystic forge lottery and finally, run around all the PvE maps completing hearts, finding POIs and jumping up mountain after mountain to discover Vista’s. You hardcore PvE’s (I mean hardcore as in will NEVER pvp) need to put yourselves into the shoes of the PvP’ers You have the better end of the deal. There is way more PvE content to grind through than PvP content to get the legendaries.

The other concurrent related thread seems to have disappeared while I was composing this response. (!?!) Since it is equally applicable here, I’ll post it.

Kodesh.2019:

I can see your argument about not wanting to bother PvP’ers or take up a slot, but giving away the final POIs and Vista’s does take away from us PvP’ers that fought so hard to earn ours because we wanted world completion too. It’s a kick in the groin to remove obstacles and challenges many players have overcome. Especially if the reward is not diminished in any way.

Yes, I can definitely see how those who earned it “the hard way” could be annoyed. Perhaps, as in another thread, one gift of exploration for PvE and one for WvWvW? Or some other nerf to the award? Perhaps different titles? Or a different star? (Speaking for myself, the functional reward is not really of importance anyway, but obviously there will be others who feel otherwise.)

OTOH, those of us just joining don’t have the benefit of free server transfers which some (not all, of course — and I do not mean to be insulting or to minimize the effort involved) will have used to earn their achievement. Perhaps that serves to balance it out somewhat? And Legendary continues to be Legendary: those who earned world completion the hard way will be further along their way to the Gift of Mastery.

It looks like WvWvW changes are in the wind anyway which may (or may not) serve to shake up the static nature of some of the POIs — but I doubt it will help with the spawn points by their very nature.

Kodesh.2019:

DryHumour.1307:

My favourite of the suggestions I’ve heard for map completion is to have PvE only versions of the WvWvW maps which award only PvE benefits (no badges, no blueprints). That would get PvE completionists out of WvWvW slots, freeing them up for contributing PvP players. To get a Legendary, you’d still have to compete in WvWvW (to get the necessary badges for the Gift of Battle).

I think this is a great idea as long as it doesn’t let the players get Gift of Exploration. There is nothing Legendary about avoiding pvp combat and not fighting to earn your POIs and Vista’s.

Since the PvE map suggestion would preclude getting the Gift of Battle, that would also preclude getting a Legendary without WvWvW participation, regardless of the Gift of Exploration. However, I agree that there is equally no particular reason, if the maps are split, to award the Gift of Exploration either since, likewise, its only use is in a Legendary.

they could give players the option to finish world completion by finding all dungeon points,puzzles,graduation mission,..
Or doing it the way we all know;finishing all maps in wvw.

Then rewards for each of those worldcompletion options could be different
This way players who have done completion with wvw still really “earned” it and got the appropriate reward for doing so(other completion options wouldnt get)
On top of that alts could choose another way to explore the final bits if you don’t feel like doing it with wvw twice,or 9 times.
If you think finishing wvw map points is a pain,think about what it would be for people with 9 characters to finish it 9 times that way

Or perhaps you should only finish wvw once on your account and then get other options.but i’m not a big fan of wvw atm either.especially because strenght is all in numbers,the zergs,the ganking
maybe if they add more to wvw to prevent culling, like reinforcements,perhaps naval /air battle i’d grow to like it

As for PVE content in the WvW maps, I don’t see an issue with the capture points. If you play enough to get 500 badges there will be enough down time that you will be able to pick up the waypoints. With the different starting points you can still get all the points fairly easily even with a bad homeworld.

The skill points that aren’t commune, and jumping puzzles need to go. They are just a distraction from people that are trying to play the content as designed.