Guild Wars 2

Lots of disagreement about Ascended items and end-game progression.

I’ts already been said in various other places here, but the two things that would fix GW2 progression and pave the way for a better experience:

1. Ascended items have the ability to hot-swap stat combinations (like legendaries)

2. Introduce a new tier after Exotic, that require a few more difficult mats but nothing too time gated.

Number one would acknowledge the effort people go to for Ascended items. They are end game items after all.

Number two would ease the dramatic progression spike from Exotic to Ascended, and makes getting crafting to 500 more natural in design.

From then on, any new ‘items’ added to the game are simply skin consumables that would require some effort, but nothing too long-term. Consumable skins can be given through rewards in Living Story content updates and events and specific bosses. Skin recipes could also be made via mystic forge. Ultimately at the core of all your skins though is a tier that you were comfortable getting to.

IMO, GW2 doesn’t need that kind of progression. It needs a new class, maybe a new race, new weapons and skills for each current class and most importantly, new permanent content like the next dragon.

I like this.

i would add:

Make Ascended Weapons achievable through, playing not crafting, like the other ascended items only harder to achieve. Or let it be craftable with the mystic forge

justkoh.4073:

IMO, GW2 doesn’t need that kind of progression. It needs a new class, maybe a new race, new weapons and skills for each current class and most importantly, new permanent content like the next dragon.

True, just true.

1. Swapping stats is a feature that adds a carrot to legendaries. As eye candy, legendaries only appeal to a segment of the population. Making them guaranteed BIS and adding stat swap makes them more desirable to more people. I have a hard time thinking that ANet will remove a motivation for more people to pursue legendaries — which require more dedication and time than Ascended.
2. Ascended is already an in-between tier that a segment of the playerbase did not want added at all. Adding yet another tier will not appease them. The issue as I understand it is not just that Ascended is harder to get — but that the effort to get exotics has in large part already been made. Adding yet another tier to use the same mats as exotics, ascended and legendaries would just create more grind.
3. What would characterize this hypothetical tier between exotic and ascended? The stat gap is already rather small. This begs the question, “If the stats would be between exotic/ascended, would this not trivialize both the new tier and the Ascended items?”

what gw2 needs is to make that dam zomorros give me my dam precursor!!!!

rawrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!! 15 characters….

justkoh.4073:

IMO, GW2 doesn’t need that kind of progression. It needs a new class, maybe a new race, new weapons and skills for each current class and most importantly, new permanent content like the next dragon.

And what about players that want to grow their favorite character? You can’t just say to them: “find another game”. That’s not the solution.

HiddenNick.7206:

justkoh.4073:

IMO, GW2 doesn’t need that kind of progression. It needs a new class, maybe a new race, new weapons and skills for each current class and most importantly, new permanent content like the next dragon.

And what about players that want to grow their favorite character? You can’t just say to them: “find another game”. That’s not the solution.

I never said “find another game” and I believe Ascended equipment is (unfortunately) here to stay. But I’d like you to consider that GW1 was a game where you leveled up to 20, could buy max armor/weapons easily and then proceed to enjoy the content. I believe many GW1 vets (including myself) want that and hence the disappointment with recent direction.

(Yes, you could say this is not GW1 but IMO, the more they diverge from the GW1 formula, the more it approaches a bait and switch)

I seem to understand that Ascended is the final tier of weapons and armor and the grind to get them is considerable. So let it be and hopefully it satisfies the subset of players you’re talking about. Personally I will be sticking with Exotics and will quit once they announce another tier or make new content require Ascended gear.

That is all.

Honestly there is a huge overhaul in this game and I’m not so optimistic about giving them any info about it until they give us what we have yearned for. Knowledge is power, we definitely have power over developers.

All the recent contents on top of daily and monthly, this game feels more like a chore than something you actually enjoying playing. Dungeons are so boring, WvW is stale and sPvP population is like doing a downward spiral.

People keep telling me all these contents are optional, you don’t have to do them if you don’t want to. All I have to say to that is if you don’t do those new contents what else there is to do in GW2?

justkoh.4073:

GW1 vets (including myself)

How many hours have you spent on gw1 PvE? 100 or 1000 hours?

HiddenNick.7206:

justkoh.4073:

GW1 vets (including myself)

How many hours have you spent on gw1 PvE? 100 or 1000 hours?

2.7K hours

justkoh.4073:

HiddenNick.7206:

justkoh.4073:

GW1 vets (including myself)

How many hours have you spent on gw1 PvE? 100 or 1000 hours?

2.7K hours

I’ve also spent a lot of time playing gw1. But most of it(like 98%) on GvG and other PvP modes. Why? Because, besides the campaign, I considered the whole PvE experience as boring grind! There was no progression in that game. Just many different ways to farm gold and few ridiculously hard challenges. It wasn’t fun or rewarding game to play (at least the PvE aspect of it). So I really wonder why you want that kind of gameplay back?

You spent 2.7K hours playing campaign and completing quests? I don’t think so… So what were you doing over so many hours?

Apparently, you think PVE was boring and I don’t like PvP. But just as you want people who “want to grow their favorite character” to be satisfied, I want Ascended to be the final ceiling for gear grind. I believe both preferences must be respected and a middle path found. A-net needs to find a way or risk losing part of their playerbase.

If I wanted gear grind, I’d have stayed with another MMORPG.

My answer on gameplay time is accurate. 2.7K hours on actual PVE and not AFK or farming either.

Regarding the gameplay, I like GW2 the way it was (up to the Queen’s Jubilee patch). I just think its time for them to release the next chapter and not try to keep us logging in by introducing more time-gated grind.

Not going to debate this. I’ve said my piece. You’re welcome to your opinion too.

For starters, IMO, take what we have now, and connect them.

Make Ascended recipe take an Exotic weapon equivalent.

Make precursor crafting require an Ascended weapon.

Then Legendary takes said precusor.

After this, keep adding more horizontal progression, not only new skills, but new sigils, new runes, new ways to CUSTOMIZE our playstyle.

justkoh.4073:

Apparently, you think PVE was boring and I don’t like PvP. But just as you want people who “want to grow their favorite character” to be satisfied, I want Ascended to be the final ceiling for gear grind. I believe both preferences must be respected and a middle path found. A-net needs to find a way or risk losing part of their playerbase.

If I wanted gear grind, I’d have stayed with another MMORPG.

My answer on gameplay time is accurate. 2.7K hours on actual PVE and not AFK or farming either.

Regarding the gameplay, I like GW2 the way it was (up to the Queen’s Jubilee patch). I just think its time for them to release the next chapter and not try to keep us logging in by introducing more time-gated grind.

Not going to debate this. I’ve said my piece. You’re welcome to your opinion too.

Sorry that I sounded so harsh. People on this forum just assume that AC gear is bad and that is it – without any debate about it. So I really appreciate your reply. Personally I’m not sure If I want more gear progression.

HiddenNick.7206:

justkoh.4073:

HiddenNick.7206:

justkoh.4073:

GW1 vets (including myself)

How many hours have you spent on gw1 PvE? 100 or 1000 hours?

2.7K hours

I’ve also spent a lot of time playing gw1. But most of it(like 98%) on GvG and other PvP modes. Why? Because, besides the campaign, I considered the whole PvE experience as boring grind! There was no progression in that game. Just many different ways to farm gold and few ridiculously hard challenges. It wasn’t fun or rewarding game to play (at least the PvE aspect of it). So I really wonder why you want that kind of gameplay back?

You spent 2.7K hours playing campaign and completing quests? I don’t think so… So what were you doing over so many hours?

Actually I have played 11k hours in gw1 not to mention I was gone from the game for at least a good half a portion of its lifetime to play a seiging game like SB/AoC. I have to disagree with your no progression conclusion as they have have very definitive progression. The game itself is built on a ladder system which defines the whole progression of the game. With you playing 98% in GvG, you should have understood the whole concept already as GvG is strictly part of the ladder system.

They should definitely not add another gear tier. The problem is really that they have to many gear tiers. At lvl 80, no one wants to go for rare’s (except for skin), because they’d rather invest that money in their exotic armor.

A rough estimate would say that the price gap between two tiers should be somewhere around ten times the difference. Many would buy a temporary rare set for 1G per piece, if the exotics went for 10G per piece, because the total cost of the rare set, won’t have a significant impact on the “journey” to get an exotic set.

The lower tiers are more aimed at those who haven’t reached level 80 yet, and here there’s no need for such a huge price gap.

The way I see it, Rare is the type of gear you can pay upfront once you reach lvl 80 (without having to have saved the entire way). Exotic gear will take some time to acquire, but a casual player occasionaly playing on his lvl 80 char will get it eventually.

Ascended is for the “hardcore” players, that for some reason demands a game that encourages a ridicilous amount of farming. Some will be ok with an aesthetic upgrade, but the majority will actually want to see a power upgrade, and that is okay aslong as the power upgrade is small.

Exotic gear has +14.2% better stats than rare, and ascended gear has +10% better stats than exotic gear. Due to Ascended gear not being for casual players, this gap is to large (based on amulet with fine infusion, vs exotic with exotic upgrade, and rare with rare upgrade).

If ascended had about +5% better stats than exotic, then I would be alot more okay with the addition of ascended gear, and I wouldnt mind if it were 100 times more difficult to get than exotic (some pieces should be fairly easy though, like those you can get via laurels).

mysticque.6182:

HiddenNick.7206:

justkoh.4073:

HiddenNick.7206:

justkoh.4073:

GW1 vets (including myself)

How many hours have you spent on gw1 PvE? 100 or 1000 hours?

2.7K hours

I’ve also spent a lot of time playing gw1. But most of it(like 98%) on GvG and other PvP modes. Why? Because, besides the campaign, I considered the whole PvE experience as boring grind! There was no progression in that game. Just many different ways to farm gold and few ridiculously hard challenges. It wasn’t fun or rewarding game to play (at least the PvE aspect of it). So I really wonder why you want that kind of gameplay back?

You spent 2.7K hours playing campaign and completing quests? I don’t think so… So what were you doing over so many hours?

Actually I have played 11k hours in gw1 not to mention I was gone from the game for at least a good half a portion of its lifetime to play a seiging game like SB/AoC. I have to disagree with your no progression conclusion as they have have very definitive progression. The game itself is built on a ladder system which defines the whole progression of the game. With you playing 98% in GvG, you should have understood the whole concept already as GvG is strictly part of the ladder system.

I’m not sure what you mean… Whole PvP part of the gw1 was flawless. But I don’t what you mean by saying: “I have to disagree with your no progression conclusion as they have have very definitive progression. The game itself is built on a ladder system which defines the whole progression of the game.”. Could you be more specific?

the way I see it, this game is finally getting to the “ready for release” point. they have stated many times that Ascended gear was intended from the beginning, and have only implemented it when it was ready. After a year I feel like I’m much closer to playing a fully fledged release game. Had I started playing today for the first time, I wouldn’t feel like anything was missing (save for the LFG tool, which is coming next update)

If we get new races / weapons / continents to explore, that will all come out with a paid expansion for sure. It’s the model they have always followed, and I don’t see a reason to not follow it. If we are lucky, they will give us all that for free. The more you spend in the gem store the higher this chance will be.

Fergus.4208:

…snip…

Math!!!! yours is slightly of (though some of mine might be off a little too)

On this webpage : http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exotic#Quality

It shows Rares as being 145% better than basic
It shows Exotic as being 165% better than basic
It shows Ascended as being 175% better than basic

Assuming that Ascended is the new 100%…
145/165 × 100 = 87.87878787…% rounded to 88%
145/175 × 100 = 82.85714285…% rounded to 83%
165/175 × 100 = 94.28571428…% rounded to 94%
and for kicks…. 100/175 × 100 = 57.14285714….% rounded to 57%

(numbers are rounded to 3 significant digits for easy reading…)
Rare equipment is only 88% as powerful as Exotic.

• Difference between 88 and 100 is 12.
• 12/88 = 13.6. Therefore, Exotic is 13.6% Stronger than Rare.
  Rare equipment is only 83% as powerful as Ascended.
• Difference between 83 and 100 is 17.
• 17/83 = 20.5. Therefore, Ascended is 20.5% Stronger than Rare.
  Exotic equipment is 94% as powerful as Ascended.
• Difference between 94 and 100 is 6.
• 6/94 = 6.4. Therefore, Ascended is 6.4% Stronger than Exotic.
  and for kicks….Basic is 57% as powerful as Ascended.
• Difference between 57 and 100 is 43.
• 43/57 = 75.4. Therefore, Ascended is 75.4% Stronger than Basic. (this is why newer players get their butts kicked so often in WvW, Dungeons, PvP, etc….)

The Difference is 6.4% between Exotic and Ascended gear, which does not make a single bit of difference in the world when so many aspects of the game rely on your skill as a player, not your equipment. Since players only have Trinkets and weapons, the difference is actually barely over half of that number, or 3.2%!!!!! The difference is actually much smaller when you factor in the fact that you already have 900 something power, toughness, vitality, and precision to start with (as well as Trait bonus and Sigil bonus). At that point, the difference is less than 1%.

If Ascended gear is the final step in the Gear Treadmill, than I have no problems with it because the difference in power is basically nothing. I am actually pretty proud of myself that I was able to make Theodosus’s Greatbow. It took 7 days of doing all sorts of Dungeons, Jumping Puzzles, WvW, and every World Boss several times over, as well as the hours it took to gather all the crafting materials (If you are lazy and didn’t gather materials, it would have costed around 70 gold to buy everyting except for the account bound stuff).

I don’t feel that stats should be able to be switched on ascended because they aren’t worth anywhere near as much as Legendaries, and I don’t feel that any new tiers of equipment needs to be introduced.

What I think was pretty darn stupid was the 200 Gold or so you need to level your crafting from 400 to 500, but that’s also if you don’t save any crafting materials or anything and you just buy everything off the trading post. I learned from this mistake, and it wont be happening when crafted Ascended Armor and Trinkets gets introduced. The thing is, the progression from crafting 400 to 500 is the same as crafting from 300 to 400, there’s just no inbetween weapons, just the exotics, and the crafting refinement. it just got blown out of control because of how the economy in the game works.

Hint::: Gossamer is used in all crafting professions and in making Insignias. It will cost more than Ancient wood and Orichalcum does. I suggest that you stock up now (even though it is expensive even now. Players are right in speculating that the price is going to go up, because IT IS AND WILL!), stock up either for profit, or so you aren’t caught with your pants down when you decided to level from 400 to 500.

Chrispy.5641:

…snip…

My math is indeed slightly off.

An ascended amulet has 295 attribute points and + 5 from infusion slot, to a total of 300, whereas an exotic amulet has 283 attribute points (I had erroneously set this to 273).

This corresponds to ascended gear being +6% better than exotic gear. (283*1.06 = 300). This may increase with higher tier infusion slots.

I still find it to large, and ascended armor is coming, so every piece will have an ascended equivalent.

You must remember that if you increase all stats by say 1%, then the power increase is higher than 1%.

A simple example is two warriors, they only have normal attacks, and the weak one has 1000 health, and deals 10 damage every attack. The other has +10% stats, and therefore has 1100 health and deals 1100 damage. After 91 attacks the weaker warrior is dead, whereas the stronger warrior has 190 health, remaining.

190 health of 1100, is 17.27% remaining health, and a better way to determine power. So, you see a 10% stats increase would in this case lead to a 17.27% “power” increase.

Jatacid.3725:

Lots of disagreement about Ascended items and end-game progression.

I’ts already been said in various other places here, but the two things that would fix GW2 progression and pave the way for a better experience:

1. Ascended items have the ability to hot-swap stat combinations (like legendaries)

2. Introduce a new tier after Exotic, that require a few more difficult mats but nothing too time gated.

Number one would acknowledge the effort people go to for Ascended items. They are end game items after all.

actually the main issue is lvling your craft to the point where you can craft the kitten items, not the items cost themselves…. the cost of lvling the craft last 50-100lvls is completely rediculess and kittening faaaar out

another completely moronic thing is: WTF ARE THE ITEM ACCOUNT BOUN?!?!
i mean WTF..
LEGENDARIES ARE TRADEBLE! but these are account bound? are you kittening kidding?!…
yet another complete fail anet move. aholes man -.-

Fergus.4208:

Chrispy.5641:

…snip…

My math is indeed slightly off.

An ascended amulet has 295 attribute points and + 5 from infusion slot, to a total of 300, whereas an exotic amulet has 283 attribute points (I had erroneously set this to 273).

This corresponds to ascended gear being +6% better than exotic gear. (283*1.06 = 300). This may increase with higher tier infusion slots.

I still find it to large, and ascended armor is coming, so every piece will have an ascended equivalent.

You must remember that if you increase all stats by say 1%, then the power increase is higher than 1%.

A simple example is two warriors, they only have normal attacks, and the weak one has 1000 health, and deals 10 damage every attack. The other has +10% stats, and therefore has 1100 health and deals 1100 damage. After 91 attacks the weaker warrior is dead, whereas the stronger warrior has 190 health, remaining.

190 health of 1100, is 17.27% remaining health, and a better way to determine power. So, you see a 10% stats increase would in this case lead to a 17.27% “power” increase.

All true, but isn’t that why PvP is made to where all players have the same stats anyways (or same potential atleast?)

I can see this being a problem in WvW, but in a Zerg, it doesn’t really matter. What matters is which Zerg is more organized and stronger. And as far as just roaming and doing 1v1 battles, you should remember that there are players who still run around with Rare or worse gear, and there are some that can still regularly beat the ever living kitten out of exotic equipped players. (I ran around WvW with a Rare Soldier setup for a long time, and I doubt that every single player I killed was wearing Rare or worse gear! Atleast 25% of them had to be wearing exotics, just because of what the armor looked like).

At that point, a 6% (currently more like 3% because of lack of top tier armor) increase in a Stat bonus (which actually makes the total stat increase more like 1.5% after adding in base stats, traits, food, and sigils) becomes meaningless, because if you are good with dodges, timing your skills right, etc, it doesn’t matter if that person is 1-3-6-10-25% better equipped than you, you’ll still kill him (though the extra stats do help!)

In PvE, having better gear certainly helps, but that isn’t the deciding factor. I started to solo champs with Masterwork Cleric gear! Higher level gear has since made it much easier, but everything in the game is still doable.

I still don’t see ascended gear having as much of an impact as people say it is, since in 6 months, every player that wants it will have it, and they will still get their butts kicked in WvW by players wearing lower quality gear.

Nah, there is one simple fix to bring peope back to GW2

Guild Vs Guild and Guild Halls!

A guild hall could have all the crafting, storage and vendor options and could be upgraded to add them just as the GW1 guild halls could

But GvG is ESSENTIAL!
Especially with a proper tournament structure

The fix to progression in GW2 is to stop having so much of it.