Guild Wars 2

I recently finished leveling my first character to level 80, achieved my exotic gears, and have discovered 43% of the world. However, I have realized in the past couple of days that there won’t be much else to do afterwards that will increase my character’s abilities, growth, or status. This saddens me, and as a hardcore gamer that is focused on ultimately just end-game material, I found something that Guild Wars 2 actually lacks on, end-game material that matters. A majority of my friends have sadly already left Guild Wars 2, and at first I did not understand why. The hardcore gamer needs vertical progression in their videogaming experience, mostly through end-game material, to be enticed to stay a core player of said videogame. It seems that this problem is not just mine. Many of my friends and others I have spoken with all have a consensus on this circumstance. Even though there is end-game material such as scalable dungeons, WvW, structured PvP, etc., it is all centered around attaining more cosmetic based achievements, instead of anything else that could be more relevant to character growth, or more valuable in general. In other words, it seems in the long run that the game’s focal point audience is not the conventional hardcore gamers, but rather, the casual gamers. A man by the name of Jesse Schell wrote a book entitled “The Art of Game Design: A book of lenses,” where in he lists 100 lenses of how to analyze the video game development processes. The 5th lens he listed was the lens of Endogenous Value. The question this lens poses is, “What is the relationship between the value in the game and the player’s motivations?” (Jesse Schell). This is one of the most important lenses, and I feel Guild Wars 2 lacks in this area when players want to experience end-game material. I want to be able to play this game and achieve things that have endogenous value to me, and that work in unison with the rest of the playable game, enhancing my overall videogaming experience. This is what the hardcore gamer needs as incentive to fuel the continued video gaming motivation, essentially, the addiction. Guild Wars 2 is one of the best MMORPGs I have ever experienced thus far, but in order to truly be the best the world has seen, and in order to be a continued threat to other giant MMORPGs like World of Warcraft, it needs to find a way to appeal to every kind of gamer. I really wish you all will take my plea and consider it. My plea is that you all at the Guild Wars 2 team will develop a way for all gamers, including the hardcore gamer, to have a diligent incentive to play Guild Wars 2.

If you don’t have all legendary and ascended, then you’re far from being anything close to hardcore
work harder.

Maybe GW2 just isn’t a game for you.

it needs to find a way to appeal to every kind of gamer.

Problem is, a lot of the desires of one group directly contradict another. Try to compromise and ANET will just end up driving away both. Take gear treadmills as an example, some people like them and want long paths they can never finish, others don’t want them at all. The obvious compromise of a short treadmill means you have one too short for the players who like them and too long for the players who don’t.

Picking a niche and sticking to it is a much better way to ensure success. Especially if there aren’t any competitors in that niche, as it means the players who really like the niche know they have nowhere else to go, so will be a lot more forgiving of mistakes than they would be if there were competitors.

Why does no-one use paragraphs?

SmashMac.4268:

My plea is that you all at the Guild Wars 2 team will develop a way for all gamers, including the hardcore gamer, to have a diligent incentive to play Guild Wars 2.

They’ve introduced Fractals and Ascended Gear.

Fractals are dungeons that, as you increase the level of difficulty, so does the dungeon itself. Ascended Gear is pretty much needed at higher levels to deal with the Agony Mechanic.

When they introduced Ascended gear, they also said that this would be alongside other progression systems that they are working on.

We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features.

They said in the AMA that they will be focusing primarily on horizontal progression, but will also include some vertical progression with minimal power curve.

As for your usage of the term ‘hardcore’, I disagree that ‘hardcore’ gamers need vertical progression. Rather, they need more difficulty content.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Maybe GW2 just isn’t a game for you.

it needs to find a way to appeal to every kind of gamer.

Problem is, a lot of the desires of one group directly contradict another. Try to compromise and ANET will just end up driving away both. Take gear treadmills as an example, some people like them and want long paths they can never finish, others don’t want them at all. The obvious compromise of a short treadmill means you have one too short for the players who like them and too long for the players who don’t.

Picking a niche and sticking to it is a much better way to ensure success. Especially if there aren’t any competitors in that niche, as it means the players who really like the niche know they have nowhere else to go, so will be a lot more forgiving of mistakes than they would be if there were competitors.

Heh , you would be right , if Anet had not already said intend to add vertical progression to this game , and there is NO promise asc gear will be top also. They can add better ones later , so said their devs.

So for your and mine sadness , Anet already went down WoW path.

So like said above , go repeat FotM 200 times OP , that is what Anet got for the hardcores and it does give better stats gear.

Haishao.6851:

If you don’t have all legendary and ascended, then you’re far from being anything close to hardcore
work harder.

I have to agree with this plus add.

I personally call myself a casual player. My highest character just got to 74 over the holiday weekend and I have been playing since headstart.

My point is that I have 50% map completion and I’m casual in my play style.

You aren’t really talking about hardcore here. You are really talking about vertical progression which GW2 isn’t really about. There are loads of things to do in GW2, but you just have to search for them.

IMO Spvp is where the hardcore people should be, testing out their skills against real people intead of NPCs.

End-game material starts with level 1 and ends at level 80. As you progress, you open up more varied content, but this is not now, nor will it ever be a game where getting max level is a prerequsitie for participation in the bulk of content.

Guild Wars 2 is designed specifically to not compel players to grind for a carrot that is always out of reach. It is designed so that you can put it down and return to it months later without losing your relative strength. It is designed to avoid the type of obsessive play that ends marriages and it is designed to avoid placing barriers between former players and returning to the game.

In addition to that, did your character progress because every number in the game was just multiplied by 10? You do 10 tiems as much damage, but enemies have 10 tims the hit points. You loot 10 times as much money, but things cost 10 times as much. You didn’t actually progress, you’re in the same point—you’re running on a treadmill. The players that stop running to stay in the same spot fall behind. GW2 is not that type of game—the floor is not going to be pulled out from under you because you stop to take a breather when your dad has cancer, or your child is born, or your house is destroyed by a hurricane. The devs recognize that it is just a game, and it should be fun, and an escape from these problems, not a source of constant anxiety and obligation exceeding that of your career.

For those griping about the vertical progression, ascended gear has not so thoroughly obsoleted all other gear that every player plays only FotM content (from what I’ve seen, it is 8% over exotic, which is less than the rare→exotic difference). It was always known that there would be diversified gear from different areas, requiring a mix of horizontal and vertical progression (agony resistance is a new stat requiring its own vertical progression path, but that path is horizontal relative to the flight-time gear that a hypothetical content push would call for).

“Going down the WoW path” means adding a new dungeon every couple months where the gear is 15-25% better than the last dungeon’s. Rings and Back slots can be ascended now. Three slots received an 8%* boost. This is not the same path, not by a long shot.

(* the lack of exotic backpieces is irrelevant; in theory they would have existed eventually to round out the available gear at existing levels and still serve as a baseline.)

Who says that all hardcore guys need to see higher numbers in their hits…

Azaziel.3608:

Who says that all hardcore guys need to see higher numbers in their hits…

A request for carrot + treadmill vertical progression amounts to this. Maybe the numbers balance out when you factor in the higher toughness/armor on enemies, but the principle is the same—bigger numbers drive the illusion of progression.

Edit: I recognize not every hardcore player asks for it, but this thread is unconcerned with other hardcore-related requests, only that one.

Oh please.

Using terms such as “hardcore gamer” while referring to yourself makes you look rather silly.

Needing vertical progression as a “hardcore”? Clearly untrue, considering that Counter-Strike is one of the most popular online games ever and it has no progression whatsoever.

The thing is, Guild Wars 2 isn’t your dime a dozen MMORPG. It’s not a numbers game. It’s not a game where you play to the maximum level, then farm until you get hemorrhoids and voila, every bit of content is now trivial because of how powerful you are. In fact, just the way sPvP is implemented tells that ANet is planning a very different route of GW2. An MMORPG as a competitive game, lining up with stuff like Star Craft 2, Counter-Strike and Tekken? Totally unheard of. Reason being that pretty much all MMORPGs only have a PvP that depends on your gear and level.

GW2 is not a game about gear. It’s a game about mechanics. You spend time in PvE to get familiar with the mechanics, such as dodging, and getting pretty armor. You’re then rather expected to move to the PvP aspect, where you hone your “skill” of the mechanics.

Sadly, for most MMORPG players, this concept is totally new. Majority of all MMORPGs depend on gear rather than some measure of “skill”. In fact, I would guess that a lot of the people who play MMORPGs do it because of the concept where putting more times in means you’re better than someone who put in less time. However, that concept was totally trashed by F2P MMORPGs.

You have to realize that the gaming industry itself is evolving. It’s becoming more and more main stream. This means that the focus has to shift from the hardcores to the casuals. And with that, the concept of time equaling power has to be trashed, because casuals won’t go for that. However, by making the power be about “skill”, you end up with a setting where even the casuals can participate to a great extent.

The problem with skill-based systems is that it’s a logarithmic progression. Once you get past a certain point, it becomes a game of making mistakes. The one who makes the worse mistakes loses.

The first time I heard about Guild Wars 2, I found my self consistantly wanting to know more! Loved the idea, Your personal story and Events which would eliminate boring pick-up quests to kill! The first hour I tried the game I put it down because the combat sucks! Don’t get me wrong, the combat “System” is amazing! But the gameplay itself turned me away. Why, the same reason I have put down many MMO’s, boring Tab target combat. Not only that, but I always feel like ranged players have an advantage in PVP becuase, all they have to do is be locked to you and keep using spells, and it will always hit you, uness you role. untill; you run out of endurance, which isn’t very difficult.

But, when I read about the Combat Mode MOD someone had create, i actually started playing the game. Not only me, but my (2) brothers played it as well, and a friend. Without the combat mode MOD I would not be playing the game other wise, even though the game has many great ideas and features, if 80 percent of my story is combat, Then I will only enjoy myself 30 percent of the time, which is not enough for me. I am spoiled, from fighting games to true action mmo’s like Tera Online, (Although it is a boring grinding game, the combat kept me playing.) Having bad combat, is like watching a movie with the greatest story, but the camera work sucks! Only some people can bare through!

PLEASE Arena Net, Implement this feature! Make a separate Server for real action combat hungry players!

Olba.5376:

You have to realize that the gaming industry itself is evolving. It’s becoming more and more main stream. This means that the focus has to shift from the hardcores to the casuals. And with that, the concept of time equaling power has to be trashed, because casuals won’t go for that. However, by making the power be about “skill”, you end up with a setting where even the casuals can participate to a great extent.

I would have to disagree that the focus “has to” shift from hardcores to casuals. What is shifting is the variety of people playing video games.

In my opinion, hardcore denotes a player that is:
Dedicated to a game
Masters the mechanics of that game (whether it be gear or skill, or event a little of both)
Seeks gratification through time by progressing to become better

A casual player is someone that:
Without a definite or serious intention
Seeming to be indifferent to what is happening
Irregular/occasional
Seeks immediate gratification and/or just there to kill time

A “hardcore” player should be someone who values their time in the game and dedicates that time to “progressing” in the game. Progression in a game has, for a long time, been about obtaining that next tier of gear; that next higher number. This probably evolved out the D&D era, where you essentially rolled your die to see if you hit or not; comparing one number to that of another. As you make the game more and more complex you had more and more dice rolls and more and more rolls to compare to… In it’s most basic form combat can be your attack versus their stamina/hp/etc. Then you can progress the game to your attack versus their defense, the difference of which is subtracted from their hp. Add in more variable such as critical chance, etc. till the point where you would have to roll for a million different variables for a single strike and beyond; down to the positioning of you arm multiplied by your skill level with that particular strike, the enemies positioning and the positioning of their limbs which could cause your attack to deflect or be blocked, etc. etc.

The vertical progression of numbers, the players statistics, will then become a small subset of gameplay due to the number of variables involved. Instead, “hardcore” players will be those that master the nuances of gameplay, of which may still take a good deal of time to discern appropriately.

Casuals will be the ones that still hop on to play, because game play will be intuitive enough that you can “pick up and play.” However, as stated earlier, the minute details of game play will be lost on them, but picked up the “hardcores.” Things like anticipation of the opponents course of actions, and the correct line of reaction, along with minute and precise control over game functions will then become what separates the casual from the hardcore.

This, however, would only cover long term “progression” where there is still a need for markers to mark the path of a players progress. Achievements for victories, cosmetics that display how far you have progressed, etc. will still be necessary, but in a different sort of way.

i will simply state a fact… some people have to work for living, but they like playing a lot, they are interested in the game, the mechanic, the lore, the variety of aspects a game offers to its players and they want to be competitive, they want to be good at it even if they manage to play less than hardcore player whose parents forgive this much effort in a game instead of homeworks…
so why grown people that has to pay mmorpg for themselves and their bad at school children shouldn’t enjoy the game in the exact way hardcore players do?

Gw1 and i hope gw2 are that kind of game, if you miss for a couple of events, or you can’t play for a long time, the next time you relog you are not necessarily a skritt, maybe a rusty golem…

forgive my sarcasm, please don’t you start saying that i think all hardcore gamers have nothing better to do or they all are unforgiving, of course i know there are lots of exceptions…
i sometimes get mad becouse people get bored with something that others appreciate and before they go they put all efforts to ruin the experience of others, simply becouse they can’t go out of lion’s arch and be the perfect profession with perfect stats that kills everything single handed.

p.s. i run a dungeon with a player “too good too be true” i don’t even want to say hardcore because i never met someone so rude in all the server so far (sarcasm here too) and was an awful experience, there was a moment i wanted to kick myself out of the party in the middle of the battle… but i didn’t… so much for the not interested in what is going on here. it remembered me the attitude: always blame the monk and not yourself ever…

Nox Aeterna.2965:

Heh , you would be right , if Anet had not already said intend to add vertical progression to this game , and there is NO promise asc gear will be top also. They can add better ones later , so said their devs.

So for your and mine sadness , Anet already went down WoW path.

So like said above , go repeat FotM 200 times OP , that is what Anet got for the hardcores and it does give better stats gear.

I wouldn’t say that ANET has gone down the WoW path yet. From the AMA I think that ANET is still trying to please everyone while Blizzard knows who they are targeting WoW at.

I can also predict what Blizzard will do with future WoW content: They will make more of the same. I can’t predict which way ANET will go, they have said the grind is too much right now, but the amount of grind should have been obvious to anyone who saw the recipes. So I simply can’t say if ANET will aim for casuals, hardcore, or drift along trying to please both until that fails as people shift to a game they prefer.
The promised rebalancing of the grind for Ascended gear might help settle things. So I’ve got some hope that ANET will take GW2 in the direction I hope, I just don’t see it being a quick process.

Go read the “take risks” section. For all I know Ascended gear is one of those risks that ANET took, it failed, and now ANET are trying to recover from it without shaking off more customers with another sudden shift in direction.

I don’t see why Ascended gear would be a “fail” for ANET. My guild and I weren’t particularly affected, and we’re casual players as far as gear farming goes. We found the fractal dungeons very fun and interesting, and the loot gave us things to vendor or salvage. The stats of the Ascended gear hardly affects us.

As far as I can see, GW2 progression are more like a plain, with progression here and there. You do progress in the game, but it’s a nice and calm progression. If you’re 80 and you got exotics, I would say you’re solid enough on stats. The next step is playing through the content, getting upgrades to your looks and stuff, and enjoying the game. There’s no real rush to be super strong, except for events here and there which brings a nice breath of new things to do.

Also, ascended gear seems like a middle ground between exotics and legendaries, don’t you think? I think it keeps in line with what Anet’s been doing so far, and that’s keeping progression at a more relaxed pace than other MMOs.

I’m at fractals 3 and I don’t give a kitten about it :P. Even when I get a lot of fractals, I’ll probably spend it on bags cause I need space, not gear lol.

@OP
I’m a hardcore gamer too, and I can definitely tell you that there’s more to “hardcore” gaming than linear progression. Ask a FPS “hardcore” gamer and they’ll tell you the hardcore part for them is the combat itself. I think that’s very true of Guild Wars 2. I keep reaching for higher play skill whenever I PvP or WvW with my guild. We create new strategies, test out new builds, and just have fun pushing our limits.
Point is, “hardcore” does not mean linear progression at all.

kenshinakh.3672:

I don’t see why Ascended gear would be a “fail” for ANET. My guild and I weren’t particularly affected, and we’re casual players as far as gear farming goes. We found the fractal dungeons very fun and interesting, and the loot gave us things to vendor or salvage. The stats of the Ascended gear hardly affects us.

As far as I can see, GW2 progression are more like a plain, with progression here and there. You do progress in the game, but it’s a nice and calm progression. If you’re 80 and you got exotics, I would say you’re solid enough on stats. The next step is playing through the content, getting upgrades to your looks and stuff, and enjoying the game. There’s no real rush to be super strong, except for events here and there which brings a nice breath of new things to do.

Also, ascended gear seems like a middle ground between exotics and legendaries, don’t you think? I think it keeps in line with what Anet’s been doing so far, and that’s keeping progression at a more relaxed pace than other MMOs.

I’m at fractals 3 and I don’t give a kitten about it :P. Even when I get a lot of fractals, I’ll probably spend it on bags cause I need space, not gear lol.

That is a point of view really. To me is a MAJOR fail.

And i know people that left over this alone. So did they shake off some players , pretty sure they did.

Like said above im also uncertain. Atm im playing mostly cause i like my guild , so i dont want to leave the game if i believe there is still hope for it.

But if Anet keeps moving like this , to me that will be it.

Also honestly Anet did not make hardcores happy , and i honestly think they will never will. Adding hardcore things like CT generate MAJOR bad feedback.

While most players are fine with ascension cause they can get it eventually (It is not hard , it is just a pain to get) , hard stuff is not like that. Hard content is simple hard , and the community which is for sure a majority of casuals wont take that well.

Could do the CT in less then 3 mins , but only few could do it at all. So is hit or miss.

This isn’t WoW. Hardcore in this game is farming titles, 100% map completion, and getting a legendary.

@Nox Aeterna
Yes, it’s a point of view. For me, really think some players over-reacted and then had mob mentality swept them. Ascended gear isn’t stronger than the legendaries right? It’s weaker and it bridges the gap between exotics and legendaries… The problem comes from people thinking that it’ll lead to some gear progression trend and turning to “WoW” like.
But, I really don’t think Anet would go down that path at all. They listen to our input pretty well.
And, I might never ever get ascension gear, until maybe 3-5 months later because of how I like to play on alts and go do things other than farm. I’m a casual player just like you in that respect, and I really don’t feel the panic some felt from the Ascended gear.

Ascended gear is just a gap closer between legendaries and exotics, and that’s not even close to the gear progression WoW has. Heck, I’m even running around with level 78 exotics, and I don’t really feel a strong incentive to farm like crazy to get Ascended or level 80 exotics… The added stats aren’t big enough to make me be at such a disadvantage that I can’t keep up lol.

Of course, you’re able to keep your opinions. I’m just pointing out that things people say really influence how you think, and its better to view Ascended gear in a positive light than just go with what a lot of people say. It’s always the voices of the frustrated that is louder, so the voices of the content/happy people with the addition aren’t heard usually.

That there is a major danger, and it happened already in some of the nerfs for some perfectly fine professions. A small percent of People QQed, but really loudly, Anet listens, and something good gets changed, sometimes for the worse.

That’s partially the reason why I’m just trying to voice my opinion out that Ascended is bad at all as some players make it out. I see it as pretty positive thing and me and my guild have fun doing it instead of repeat runs of AC or some other dungeon (well, it adds to our list of dungeons to run when we get time to play together).

Plus, it keeps in line with GW2’s horizontal progression, and I seriously can’t believe people just quit because of it. I’m probably more likely to quit the game when I can’t take how much people QQ on forums XD. But luckily I don’t hear much QQing ingame :P.

“Hardcore” lacks any decent definition – doesn’t matter if you are looking at games, music scenes, or crack heads, the term is useless to base conversations on.
The “treadmills”, making content that only targets a top percentage of players but trickles through via progressing gear a little behind the content challenge (ideally) works for some games/people – even managed to keep my (and most of the current player base’s) attention for a couple of years.

Personally – and this points out how subjective the term is – hardcore players to me are the ones who strive constantly to improve their game play with regards to what stands in that game at any given time, accepting that games evolve and evolving with them. Probably not many others opinion.

The point is that players love bigger numbers and shiny things, a “treadmill” provides rails to that end. Despite being a “theme park” game GW2 in many ways resembles the “walled sandbox” like GTA (which market test better than linear games usually these days) – as such I’d like to peek into the “hardcore raider yo” player type’s consoles and confirm my suspicion that they have unlocked the Lambo, mini-gun, and chainsaw before playing another ten hours and moving on to a different game without seeing the final cutscene.

Finally I’ll throw in an opinion/observation – people looking for constantly progressing, grind-able, gear cycles are common – but generally not “hardcore” by my definition – they are chasing the top percentage of “hardcore” players capacity, capability, and results…

(Arrogant Disclaimer – I’ve been a top theory crafter and content completion player on another MMORPG, and stopped because I feel a little responsible for the mindset we might have encouraged, then game to GW2 to avoid it and relax/enjoy games again.)

Sollith.3502:

I would have to disagree that the focus “has to” shift from hardcores to casuals. What is shifting is the variety of people playing video games.

I was speaking from a developer’s perspective.

Things like Facebook and Wii opened gaming to casual players. Heck, Wii is a massive success while having inferior hardware in comparison to Xbox 360 or PS3, which would go to show that the casual playerbase is significant, considering that Xbox and PS3 got some notorious hardcore communities like Tekken, Halo and Final Fantasy.

The same is true of free-to-play games. Those made it so that people who were willing to put money in didn’t have to play as much as some other people, while everyone got the game itself for free.

Heck, microtransactions and free-to-play both cater to the casual player and both are current trends in development.

What GW2 did differently was making an MMORPG that does not have free-to-play schemes and no hardcore grinding. Basically an MMORPG that is made with casuals in mind. And considering that catering to casuals is the current trend, it’s not a big surprise.

In my opinion, hardcore denotes a player that is:
Dedicated to a game
Masters the mechanics of that game (whether it be gear or skill, or event a little of both)
Seeks gratification through time by progressing to become better

Fair points. The way I see it is that the “hardcores” in GW2 are people who are going for Legendaries and those who mainly do sPvP.

As you said, RPGs have been very number-driven for quite a long time. Only recently have we seen RPGs where knowledge of the mechanics and “skill” plays a major role. And I’ll be honest, I love the change. I loved Final Fantasy XIII because when I got back to it after a months of inactivity, I got beaten by a random encounter because I forgot the fine details of the mechanics. I loved PvP in Diablo II that depended a lot on reflexes.

However, just like many RPG players, I find games that are based only on skill to be dull after a while. I like playing Counter-Strike or Tekken in short bursts here and there, but that’s it.

kenshinakh.3672:

I don’t see why Ascended gear would be a “fail” for ANET.

It all comes down to two numbers:
– How many customers has ANET lost with this change ?
– How many customers has ANET gained/kept because of this change that they wouldn’t have otherwise ?

Now I don’t have those numbers, so I can’t say for sure either way, but ANET should be able to approximate them based on the number of refunds, players who stopped playing and other data they have access to.

kenshinakh.3672:

Ascended gear is just a gap closer between legendaries and exotics,

How exactly is Ascended gear a “gap closer” ?

In terms of time to acquire ?
No. To progress towards an Ascended item you have to stop progressing towards your Legendary until you’ve finished the Ascended. If you just skip the Ascended, you’re still taking more time to make your Legendary because Ascended items pushed up the price of material used in both. Widening the gap.

In terms of stats ?
No. Before Ascended items, Legendary weapons had identical stats to Exotics. After we get Ascended weapons, ANET’s promised to raise Legendary weapons to Ascended stats. So Ascended weapons will widen the stat gap.

What gap do Ascended items close ?

Honestly, I don’t really get all the dislike towards the Ascended gear.

People dislike that it makes Exotic gear useless. Yes, it will make Exotic gear not-top-tier anymore. Yes, that looks just like what a lot of MMORPGs do.

The thing is, the Exotic gear is already overpowered. And let’s be serious here, if they had implemented the Ascended gear and FotM from Day 1, no one would have complained. And let’s be honest, a few months after all the Ascended gear will be implemented, no one will be complaining. And anyone who buys the game after that point won’t be complaining either.

What I think people dislike about the Ascended gear is not the gear itself. It’s not even that their Exotics were made “useless”. It’s that people take the addition of the gear as something that implies a future, similar upgrade. But then again, there’s nothing to back that up. There never was anything to back up the contrary, except ANet’s word. And ANet is a company looking to turn a profit, so their word is questionable at best.

Ascended items close the gap between exotics and Legendary items – from what I can see from the official posts.

And like I mentioned earlier. I don’t know if it is a fail or not. I’m just pointing out that the complaining voice is always louder, despite sometimes being the minority. I’ve seen it too much in the forums, especially on the profession sections where players QQ and ask for nerfs just because they died to better players lol.

They’re just better than 80 exotics by a little, but it’s not so much better that a player with Exotics will ALWAYS lose to ascended lol.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

Take the whole article in consideration. It mentions there ascended does give a small upgrade above exotics, but keep in mind, small. This small is pretty much the same reason why my characters still wear level 78 exotics… It’s not big enough for me to feel left out, but it’s significant enough for those people who love getting every little +1 to stats. Maybe it doesn’t sound good, but maybe if you’re really playing casually, then it shouldn’t even impact you negatively. It’s just over-hyped from people saying it’s making a HUGE gap in stats, which I find is just baloney lol.

The prices of the mats used for Legendary has been rising, every single day it’s been rising… And I don’t know if you realized it or not, but running fractals gives you a lot of materials that you can potentially put into the mystic forge. As I see it, it’s lowering the gap by making it easier for me to get materials to craft… I see your point in raising prices, but that is only if you’re someone who depends only on gold for items. (Which would be reckless because prices rise usually). The gap is not widening at all unless you’re hording gold to buy materials, and that’ll happen anyways due to inflation.

kenshinakh.3672:

Ascended items close the gap between exotics and Legendary items – from what I can see from the official posts.

Like I said before, I don’t see how it closes the gap. What I see is Ascended gear widening the gap. With the increased material cost, the gap between Ascended and Legendary gear today is wider than the gap between Exotics and Legendary before Lost Shores.

So please stop repeating this line about it closing the gap until you can explain how it closes it.

The cost is indeed increased, but the actual material gap should be smaller because fractals give you more ways of getting the materials for it. So it really depends on what you measure the gap with. For me, the gap is smaller because I gather my materials, but for people who buy mats, I can see your point.

You want a game that is trying to cater to every gamer? This is it.

Unfortunately this approach doesn’t work, it’s a pipe dream. So what we have now is a big steaming mess, leaking players left & right.

In my opinion, they should’ve stuck to their original philosophy they were so proud of pre-release. At least the game would’ve had a niche, instead it’s in no mans land, trying to please everyone, but you know the saying… Jack of all trades, master of none.

Olba.5376:

What I think people dislike about the Ascended gear is not the gear itself. It’s not even that their Exotics were made “useless”. It’s that people take the addition of the gear as something that implies a future, similar upgrade. But then again, there’s nothing to back that up. There never was anything to back up the contrary, except ANet’s word. And ANet is a company looking to turn a profit, so their word is questionable at best.

There is that but also the way in which Ascended gear is acquired and the possibility that might be required to be able to obtain a future level of higher gear, hence the fear of a gear treadmill. I honestly think that most people wouldn’t have been so upset if the way Ascended gear was added to the game had been done better and hadn’t virtually killed world PVE and made all other dungeons obsolete. That’s my main beef with it and I’m fine with Ascended so long as it doesn’t become a barrier for players to experience new future content or lead to rampant gear elitism like in WoW.

Barabbas.8715:

That’s my main beef with it and I’m fine with Ascended so long as it doesn’t become a barrier for players to experience new future content or lead to rampant gear elitism like in WoW.

That is the only point of the Ascended gear. It exists to separate elitists from the casuals. Just looking at the arguments of people that support it’s introduction is very telling – if you can’t get it, or want to get it easier, you are obviously lazy and want immediate gratification you likely don’t deserve. And the eq cannot be easier to get, because everyone would be wearing it. The stat difference is at the same time minimal (not that i believe the people arguing for that themselves think it to be so) and yet necessary, because it lets people become better. Not better than they were before (treadmill takes care of that – you are not actually moving forward), but better than others.

Ascended items has single handed killed world PvE. Rather than fix the Orr grind and allow 80’s to get the SAME rewards in any map, they put everything intot hat one dungeoun and look…the world is nigh a ghost town even on high population servers. You only see large groups of people at dragon fights (and even then primarily only at Claw of Jormag).

They need to just backpedal completely and place ascended items and the things required to make them all over the PvE world. Theres no reason to lock them inside of the dungeoun and force everyone on the treadmill (yes it is a bloody treadmill to run a dungeoun over and over and over again). GuildWars has always been about having fun anywhere and no stat increases. Trying to appease the crowd that needs vertical progression has caused more people to leave the game than would have been lost from the vertical crowd leaving. People came expecting the same commitment GW1 had in removing vertical progression. Thus ANY vertical outside of the established exotic is destroying any trust and faith Anet had from the vets.

They have to make a choice, compete with WoW directly in vertical progression, or remove it and keep pure horizontal progression and keep the niche they have that has no competitors. Vertical progression should be guild based…ala guild halls and hanging things in the hall from the dungeouns, etc. Speaking of, we were told that guild halls would appear after a few months of the game being live…it’s been a “few months”…so where the heck are they?

I think I heard that they’re working on making Ascended gained through other ways, and something rewarding for the old dungeons to make it just as attractive as Ascended. I’m sure people will return to doing normal world things though. It’s like that time when we had the halloween event and Lost Shores. World PvE slowed down because people wanted to try out the new things. It’ll return to normal.

On a side note, take a look at ascended gear stats: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended
Do the math and you’ll see Ascended doesn’t give you a HUGE edge over exotics. It gives some more stats, but that’s it. (In this case, +5 power, +5 precision, +3% magic find compared to Exotics). That’s hardly vertical progression and is nothing like WoW… And I know WoW very well. Lol, a level 81 gear compared to a level 80 gear when Cataclysm came out was pretty ridiculous… You could literally do Cata dungeons and replace your hard earned raid gear from WotLK. Now THAT is what you call vertical progression and that is nothing like GW2 at all.

And for all the people that keeps saying GW2 is turning into vertical progression, take a step back and look. It’s horizontal still lol. Anyways, if things were really horizontal, then there’s no need for exotics, or even rares, and commons… Just make everything basic with no bonus stats and then there’s not even a need to farm gear for stats… That’s why I don’t get what people are complaining about with the horizontal/vertical thing. It’s not even strictly horizontal before fractals. It is more like steps than anything >.<, and fractals is just another step though VERY small in stats, but unfortunately it got overblown by some people’s ignorance.

Hardcore or casual are last decades labels, children used them exclusively. You want descriptors that are telling of what devs force on players in an MMO. The proper descriptors nowadays are Gamer or Farmer, there is no in-between. Devs create this, devs can also fix it.

WvW.

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