Guild Wars 2

This thread is also linked with several other threads! Please make sure to read them all!

#Abridged, Titles and their Purpose!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Abridged-Titles-and-their-Purpose/
#Abridged, Dynamic Events!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Abridged-Dynamic-Events
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>The following is a project I am working on to improve the otherwise stale combat system implemented in Guild Wars 2.
>This is not a poll, nor is it about being right or wrong. This is simply me putting out my research and ideas and allowing people to provide their input, as I compile a petition to get an over-all sense of what people feel and want.
>After this step, and after the petition is finished, I will then move on to submitting my finished proposal to Anet for use in a future update or expansion, should they like what I have come up with.
>Everything contained in the thread, is a conglomeration of ideas from other members of the community, as well as my own.
>Please only leave constructive, educated comments in this thread. Leave “Learn to play, get a life, etc” comments in your head.
>This draft has originated from the previous thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Closed-Improved-Combat-Skill-system/first

Which, you are more than welcome to read at your own leisure. Keep in my that the previous thread was a thinking-out-loud thread, and is neither perfectly organized, nor refined, or even 100% on a specific topic in itself. So please do not waste thread space commenting about it’s length in this thread.

Thank you!

• ALSO: Because of how slow the forms are, please feel free to share this thread with anyone you see fit. I would greatly appreciate it. I would like to get this system viewed and approved/denied by as many people as humanly possible.

THANK YOU!!!

- Redo the weapon skill system: make the left side of the bar customizable.

• -Add 2 new skills for each slot, for each weapon. 58 new skills per class.
  >The ideas is that each slot can be chosen to have a skill that reflects a specific quality: such as Damage, Control or Support.
  >Although control does not necessarily mean immobilization, an support does not mean a solid heal.

>For example, a sword is currently setup for conditions. You would be able to instead, set it up for more of a support role with Melandru’s Strike which grants buff/heal, or Igneous Rage which may grant a small daze.
>I am still fine tuning skills, and so these are just examples of things to come.
>I want players to be able to take up multiple types of play styles within their class.
>Guardian will still be better at support, but Ranger will be able to provide a different form of support other than just those silly spirits.

• >The number 1 thing that I am trying to achieve while making skills: Not breaking the system currently in play.
  >Any effects that would be applied through these skills, would be MINOR, but helpful.
  >Your utility skills are the main source of support.
  >For example, although Bonfire does cause projectiles to cause burning, the burning does not stack.
  >These skills are still in development on my end, so give me time before I actually post them, as I want to make sure they do not destroy any builds or cause players to be forced to use specific skills for specific causes.

• >These dynamics will hopefully create a much more team-based combat system, that will require more coordination and attention to where team members and enemies are.
  >But, it will not require micro-managing seen in Guild Wars 1, where you needed to choose which ally the skill was going to affect.
  >With an increased opportunity for diversity, and unique builds and team setups, this should alleviate many, if not all staleness in combat.
  >You will now have 3 roles inside of each of the 8 classes, thus fulfilling Anet’s dream of not having a trinity, and allowing players the same creativity that Anet took away upon the release of Guild Wars 2.
  >AND, this would make it much more fun to be involved in combat, because you will no longer be able to predict what build someone else is running.

>Now, although this is no way would be Guild Wars 1’s level of customization, it would at least give me, and many other a feeling that we have a purpose, and that we can create the role we want.

• >With the option of a weapon swap, you also will now have the option of stepping back during combat and having a team member replace your role.
  >This means that even during combat, if someone feels overwhelmed, you can swap to your support weapon skill setup to a damage or control weapon skill setup and let them use your previous role, support.
  >If you feel like the going is getting rough, or you get spiked all of a sudden, you or your team can revert to either of the 3 roles to compensate for whatever you may have been lacking at the time.
  >I am truly hoping that a system like this will GREATLY balance PvP, PvE and dungeons alike.
  >Having these options also allows you to make strategic weapon swaps. See a big skill coming? Swap to support weapon-setup allow your team to reduce, reflect, or dodge it!
  >Keep in mind that these weapon skills will in no way replace utilities. Their effects will be lesser, but possibly more frequent.

This will possibly, actually require cool-downs to remain the same, because now your combat is MUCH more adaptive.DDD
-Originally I was for lower cool-down costs of utility skills.

I think I am on the verge of solving Anets balance issues. Reallllyyy truly. Tell me if you think otherwise.

How it works:

• A full support team would function just as well as a damage team because they would equal out by using damage reduction, in regards to a team comprised high damage, high movement. *The trade off is that the support team, lacks the direct speed, but can take more hits. *

• The damage team can potentially kill faster, but has a higher chance of being overwhelmed and wiping.

• A control team, would use skills to, control the enemies, and therefore keep damage at bay, while they dished out moderate damage.

All of these roles can progress at the same rate, but require completely different modes of play.

Each of these roles can become interdependent to one another!

You can have Damage in the back, support in the middle, survivability in the front, or any role in any position!

• I realize what you are going to say, THAT IS THE TRINITY! And, although, yes, you are partially true, it is also not. There still are no direct healers, and in order to survive, you must —work as a team.
  >Second,it is in no way necessary to bring support, or control. A full damage team would have superior damage output, but would require a much higher level of player skill.

• This system is derived directly out of the existing Guild Wars 2 system, and has only been presented in a more refined form. Now any class can truly be any of the 3 roles, with the profession being the FLAVOR that defines how the role is played.

A support ranger will function entirely different from a support guardian, thief, engineer, etc.

Here are where the refined roles, and where new skills come in:

• I have created an acronym for the system I developed using the Guild Wars 2 combat system.

“MESA important now!”

• M: Movment -This type of skill allows you to move more.
  E: Effect – This type of skill has a greater effect, AND a greater recharge.
  S: Survival – This type of skill allows you take take more punishment and dish out more pain!
  A: Active -This type of skill provides less powerful immediate results, but can be sustained for a much longer duration than other skills.

Difference between survival and Effect damage:

• -Survival damage is more constant, but slightly less damage. And it is all physical damage.
  -Effect damage is caused by a variety of sources, but has a greater cooldown in exchange for the greater effects.

Uses:

• Movement is for those who like to always be on their toes.
  Effect is for those who like high risk, high reward gameplay.
  Survival is for those of you who love to just get into the fight, take the hits, but throw your own as well!
  Active is for those of you who like a more steady mode of play, no less rewarding might I add.

Here is a chart of what I have defined each weapon as so far, so you can easily reference it:

One-handed

• Axe(A) • Dagger(M) • Mace(S) • Pistol(M) • Scepter(E) • Sword(M)

Two-handed

• Greatsword(S) • Hammer(S) • Longbow(A) • Rifle(E) • Shortbow(M) • Staff(A)

Off-hand only

• Focus(E) • Shield(S) • Torch(E) • Warhorn(A)

Aquatic (Not worked on yet)

• Harpoon gun • Spear • Trident

Other (Not worked on yet.)

• Environmental weapons

Movement basics: “If you think you are going to get hit, MOVE!”

Effect basics: “Know how to hit them, and WHEN to hit them!”

Survival basics: “Go ahead, hit me! I bet I hit harder!”

Active Basics: “Who needs a break? I can do this all day!”

• -Underwater weapons have not been touched at this point. And will have a completely different document for them, because it will require a totally different list of skills.
  -And I have not even looked at environmental weapons… I assume they would be fine as is…? Give me your input on that.

• Movement weapons:
  Dagger, Sword, Pistol, Shortbow
  -These Skills should almost always cause movement as well as an effect.
  -Meaning, if you do not move as much as you need to, you will get killed, since your function requires mobility.

• Effect Weapons:
  Focus, Torch, Rifle, Scepter
  -These skills should not provide much movement. Instead, they should have slightly more powerful effects but longer recharges.
  -Meaning, rather than movement being your focus, successfully planting your targeted-skills, determines whether you live or die. Poor planning will end up in enemies simply over-running you.

• Survival weapons:
  Hammer, Greatsword, Shield, Mace
  -Survival skills deal with being up close and personal. Being up close, means being able to take a hit!
  -Survival skills should mean being able to be in the fray long enough to land a good hit before dodging out.
  -Survival skills should provide heavy support skills, but not heavy healing.
  -This means that keeping damage reduction up is your focus.
  -Powerful heals and constant movement will be harder for you.
  -With mindful dodges, and constant use of reduction skills, you will not fail if you work as a team.

• Active weapons:
  Staff, Warhorn, Longbow, Axe
  -You will have more effects that last longer, but with slightly decreased damage and not as powerful buffs.
  -Although you will not be dishing out on-the-spot damage, or super-strong buffs, your buffs and your damage will persist the longest. You role is steady maintenance and damage. You are the Paragon of the team!

Other projects that I am working on:

• Add 2 new skills for each slot, for each underwater weapon. 20 skills. (Water skills would be balanced independently because obviously, they are only used under water.)

• Add 47 new utility skills to each class. Obtainable through jumping puzzles and dungeon completion, as well as Survivor Title completion. (Automatically unlocked in PvP instances.)
  (This will promote far more current-game and end-game exploration and play-ability.)
  - Lower cool downs on utility skills by approximately half of their current time. (This may no longer even be an issue for some people, because of the system I am designing.)

• Add a dueling system.
  Give players the option to be “Ready to Duel.”
  >While this option is selected, the player may give or receive duel challenges and has an icon next to their name.
  >Players can request to duel other players. If a player denies them, they cannot request again for 30 seconds; however, the player who denied the request, may then request to duel the player that they recently denied.
  >This will make it so you can still duel with people that you accidentally canceled the invite from, but will not be harassed to be dueled by someone.
  >When this option is turned off, no players may request a duel from this player.
  >When the duel started, it would spawn an impassible dome around the players, similar to Shield of Absorption.
  >The dome will not be visible or affect anyone’s mobility except the dueling players, the same function that you see when you harvest a node.
  >This is to prevent obnoxious domes popping up everywhere you go…
  >While dueling, enemies can still attack/damage you.
  >To cancel the duel early in order to surrender, you simply need to type /bow.
  >The duel will have no set timer; the battle is to the death!
  >Duels cannot take place inside of your home-city, such as Divinity’s Reach.

Other PvP things that I am working on:

• PvP formats:
  - Fort Aspenwood Equivalent.
  - Random Arenas

• I am currently in process of designing PvP formats, although my final draft for a Fort Aspenwood equivalent can be found here:
  https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Abridged-Fort-Aspenwood/

I forgot to add this! Sorry!

• Support function ideas:
  Support skills for each profession’s 5 weapon slots:
  -Ranger: deals with condition removal, and increased dodging.

• I need help coming up with support functions for engineers!
  -Engineer: Deals with granting mechanical advantages such as swiftness or stability. (Need something better than this!)

• -Mesmer: Deals with dazing enemies, and granting random boons to allies upon taking damage.
  -Theif: Deals with allies gaining stealth, or inflicting blindness.
  -Guardian: Deals with reflecting damage, and reducing damage.
  -Warrior: Deals with blocking attacks and raising basic stats of allies.
  -Necromancer: Deals with granting allies lifesteal, and causing foes to have glancing blows.

• Elementalists may not need to be touched at all.
  -Elementalist: Deals with players “wards,” such as stability or weakness. (Causing enemies to have reduced damage output.)

• I still need to go over which profession’s skills currently grant what affect listed above.

• The hard part for me, is I feel like elementalists are the only profession already made exactly in the way in which I am designing this system.

• I don’t know if that means that these 2 new weapon slots do not apply to them… and that they are fine as is? Or that they need a new profession mechanic all together…? But the second option is stupid… They are fine as is, but I know someone will complain if I do not add new content to them as well… I just need to make a broader range of skills for them to achieve similar effect that other professions will now be getting.

• Now, what I am working on currently is how many skills will affect how many targets or allies. Support based skills will most likely have 1 or more effects on allies. Either allies who are nearby when the skill is activated, or allies who are nearby the skill as it is actually landing/hitting.

• For example, a ranger’s support skill may cause nearby allies to gain increased endurance regeneration and then leap the ranger into combat.

I’m back, but don’t be afraid, I try to do it right in the first place!

So, I want to say something about this:

- Redo the weapon skill system: make the left side of the bar customizable.

• -Add 2 new skills for each slot, for each weapon. 58 new skills per class.
  >The ideas is that each slot can be chosen to have a skill that reflects a specific quality: such as Damage, Control or Support.
  >Although control does not necessarily mean immobilization, an support does not mean a solid heal.

>For example, a sword is currently setup for conditions. You would be able to instead, set it up for more of a support role with Melandru’s Strike which grants buff/heal, or Igneous Rage which may grant a small daze.

I’m all for it when talking about more options when you equip one of your weapons, but I think the weapon and its skills should still be tied to their current goal!
So, if you see someone with mace/shield and hammer, you should know what to expect when talking about his role. Like: Ok, this guy is coming with some heavy CC!

So, that’s my disagreement with that, but I like your approach with your so called MESA system… So, with keeping the goal of the skills, but still giving options in a way like you try it with your MESA system, I would think about, the hammer skills you can select from, should still be defensive/supportive skills like dazes, weakness or crippling, but the way of execution is the main thing you could choose from.

An simply example would be let’s say the warrior hammer skill Backbreaker:
This knocks down your foe for currently 2 seconds.

Now let’s have a look about what the alternative skills could look like:

Backbreaker (Movement way)
You leap to your foe and knock your foe down for 1,2 seconds (or whatever is balanced)

Backbreaker (Effect way)
Probably what it currently is, 2 seconds knock down

Backbreaker (Survival way)
You hold your hammer up for 1,5 seconds to block the next (melee) attack, with a knock down of 0,5 seconds if you blocked

Backbreaker (Active way)
You knock your foe down for just 0,5 seconds, but the skill has a shorter recharge time

I didn’t took the damage or such things into account, I just wanted to explain what I mean with keep the role, give options about the execution!

What do you think? I mean, I see that this isn’t what you try to accomplish with your MESA system, because you want to put each weapon into one of those, but I hope you got my point…

I actually really like that idea. That is awesome! Thanks! The only thing is, players may be confused if a skill has 4 different functions under 1 name.

An alternative may be to keep the same animation, same idea, but different names…?

• The only thing, is I’d like to stray from: “This is the only thing this profession can do.” I feel like each profession, should be able to utilize each role, Damage, Support, Control, in it’s own, respect, unique format. And they should be able to do it well. Your profession should be nothing more than how your character performs his roles, not their effectiveness. As is how Guild Wars 2 is already set up, on a very simple, bland standard. By all means, it needs MUCH refinement.
• I’m not a huge fan of a Warrior automatically meaning blunt hammer swinging and tanking around.
  I want being a warrior to reflect that brutish, heavily-armored mentality, but not in a way that drastically limits what roles he can play. A warrior should be able to support just as much as anyone else, control just as much as anyone else, or do damage just as much as anyone else.

If that makes any sense.

• Because Guild Wars 2 lacks the vast amount of skills that Guild Wars 2 does, I’m trying to recreate that element of surprise, and suspense of facing someone with a weapon and not knowing what their skills are. That is something that made Guild Wars great. There were many different builds and play-styles that you could encounter. By only adding 2 skills to each weapon slot, we can accomplish a similar variety as Guild Wars 1 without burdening the developers. 58 skills, by no means, a large enough number to burden the developers. 58 skills however, is a large enough number to effective increase how much people can do, and enjoy. The weapon swap mechanics work BEAUTIFULLY with the “MESA, Damage Support, Control” system.
• In turn, enabling people to play different roles quickly and efficiently, gets rid of that ugly grind and stale combat that we currently see every day with the current functionality.
• I realize that professions currently have several small paths that they can take, but they are very basic. I am trying to really accentuation what the game already has, without adding extremely complexity or balance issues for the developers.

Sorry, I got distracted and didn’t post this last portion yet:

This was my idea behind MESA:

• If any of you feel like brainstorming skills that fit the above criteria, please do. I am currently designing new skills, but it is a slow, arduous process. Any and all ideas are accepted.

My primary source for skill inspiration, is of course, Guild Wars 1. After picking a skill that sounds interesting, I then look for similarities to skills already in Guild Wars 2. My hope is to make a unique skill for Guild Wars 2 that does not, in any way break the system or otherwise become overpowered. Anything with a string effect, will have a great disadvantage to compensate.

• For example, powerful skills will have a higher recharge, or certain rules that you must follow in order to maintain them. Some skills end when you move, or when you or your allies use skills.
• The variety that I am trying to give you, will enable you to have more than different roles, it will give you different play-styles. If you want to go Ninja-mode and specialize in becoming invisible, then you can do it! You will not be unstoppable by any means though. Like everyone else, your build will have it’s cons as well as it’s pro. It will be up to you, the player, to make a balanced build that suits your desirable play style. Your profession will now be directly impacting how you play your role. And for once, will be able to clearly see the roles available, in a balanced, customizable format.

Things to consider:

• A weapon is ‘Active’ if it requires a charge up, or provides a lasting benefit.

An example for a Ranger Damage (A)Longbow skill:

• -Focused shot: Channel for up to 3 seconds. Shoot an arrow that does increased damage based on how long you channeled. This attack is an automatic critical if fully channeled.
  -This falls under active because it, although is a great source of damage, requires a ‘charge’ for it’s full benefit.

May seem a bit off, but active in this case is over time. It requires you actively doing something.

Support skills do not need to heal or defend, they can also provide benefits that can turn the tide of battle.

• Things such as cloaking your allies, or uncloaking enemy players.

An example for a Ranger Support (A)Warhorn skill:

• Otyugh’s Cry- Command your pet to search for a stealthed player.
  -Because this can become overpower very easy, you will be required to ground target for unstealthing. If you target an area where no foe is… wellll, sucks for you, better luck next time.
  -This falls under active because it deals no damage, but provided a ‘lasting benefit.’
  -That player is no longer in stealth till they use another stealth skill.

Other examples:

Thief Damage (M) Dagger:

• -Unseen Fury: Leap at target for and gain invisibility for 4 seconds. Invisibility ends if you use anything but your first skill slot.
  (Invisibility is exactly the same as stealth, except it does not break when attacking.)

Guardian Support (S) Shield: -Already in game.-

• -Shield of Absorption: Create a dome around you that pushes foes back and absorbs projectiles.

Warrior Control (S) Shield: -Already in game.-

• -Shield Bash: Bash a foe with your shield and stun them.

• Current skills will be incorporated into this system. They will simply have categories now. You can choose any of the 3 skills for each weapon slot.

• Your bar can be damage, damage, support, control, damage. It is up to you what you want where. This is what allows you to make a truly custom build without needing thousands of skills.

If you would like more examples for what a skill would look life for [role] of [weapon], please feel free to ask. I am currently making skills and am more than happy to hear feedback, opinions, ideas, or anything you may have to offer.

Now, to be a tad bit more clear:

• Skill slot 1 is still for chains only.
  Skill slot 2 has 3 unique skills that CANNOT be placed/moved into other slots.
  Skill slot 3 has 3 unique skills that CANNOT be placed/moved into other slots.
  Skill slot 4 has 3 unique skills that CANNOT be placed/moved into other slots.
  Skill slot 5 has 3 unique skills that CANNOT be placed/moved into other slots.

• Slot 2:
  Awesome skill 1
  Awesome skill 2
  Awesome skill 3

• Slot 3:
  Epic Skill 1
  Epic Skill 2
  Epic skill 3

Got that? No mixing for OP builds. :P You have 3 skills, per slot. Period. This is more than enough for you to make some fun builds.

Can anyone tell me why “Mukittennction” has the word “kitten” butted into it? Is “mukittennction” some bad slang phrase I do not know about? musstt funnctionn. I’ll change the format… Apparently Anet does not like the word function. LOLOLOL go fiqure. functtiionnnnnn

The sad thing is that it seems community is supposed to do the developing these days, but still pay the “developers”.

The good thing is there are people intelligent enough and with enough good will (and spare time) to do other people’s jobs for the greater good of us gamers.

ANet, take the free advice you’ve been offered right here and do GW2 some justice. Shame on you.

LanceHavenbay.2067:

Can anyone tell me why “Mukittennction” has the word “kitten” butted into it? Is “mukittennction” some bad slang phrase I do not know about? musstt funnctionn. I’ll change the format… Apparently Anet does not like the word function. LOLOLOL go fiqure. functtiionnnnnn

Apparently you can’t have “ST”, then a space, then “FU” without a “kitten” showing up. Seen it before. You’d think the fact that there’s a space in it and other letters attached would override the programming. Weird.

As for the skill re-working: I’m all for more skill options per weapon. I had thought about each weapon having a pool of skills to choose from (2h have a pool of 8-10, 1h have 5-6, oh have 4ish). The idea of each weapon slot having options keeps it more structured and gives Anet some control over keeping certain weapons OP.

I’m not sure I’m reading it right but it seems like you want to make skills clearly defined as support, damage, and survival. AFAIK, Anet wants all characters to be able to do all of those things at the same time. Sure you can spec for more damage or more survivability, but they don’t want someone to rock all support skills and deal meager damage and be vulnerable. I wouldn’t want to change the gameplay mechanics too much, especially at this early stage of the game. Rather than redesigning the combat roles and fight mechanics, I would start with new skill options for weapons. I love that idea. I like what you said about maintaining the weapon’s general role so that every hammer wielder is basically a slow, hard-hitting, knockdown machine (as they are now). Just with variety.

No, the sad thing is that 90% of the community doesn’t give a crab about anything. They are neither constructive nor supportive of anything unless it allows them to exploit or otherwise impede on other people’s enjoyment. It’s sad they people are so content with a stale life, playing stale games to compliment them… A large majority of the Guild Wars 2 community does not care where the game goes, as long as they do not have to log in and post anything, or add any comment with significant value…

Sorry. Just the sheer lack of care for this game disgusts me. I’m used to growing up when communities actually put heart into the games they loved.

Seras.5702:

Rather than redesigning the combat roles and fight mechanics, I would start with new skill options for weapons. I love that idea. I like what you said about maintaining the weapon’s general role so that every hammer wielder is basically a slow, hard-hitting, knockdown machine (as they are now). Just with variety.

Understood, I will keep both of your comments in mind as I develop new skills.

• As for defined roles, no. *The skills will have a reflection of the 3 roles already provided in the game, Damage, Support, Control. A Ranger will still be a Ranger, and modifying your skill bar in this system will be in no way, different from modifying your traits and utilities in present tense.

• The effects provided through this new proposed system do not have drastic effects like utility skills do. Nor are they meant, or capable of allowing any profession to take on a specific role fully. What they do do however, is allow people to properly match their skills to their corresponding stats.*

• A thief will always be a thief, a little hard hitting ninja dude with shadowy abilities. etc etc etc.

• This new system, is simply an emphasis on “Every player works together interdependently”* using the new system that Anet devised, Damage, Control, Support.

• These new skills will not remove any of the current professions or weapon mechanics, they will simply add flavor. Much as how Serpent’s Strike has condition damage. A different flavor could be the same evade, but grant allies a slight endurance boost. Get it? Same exact mechanics, slightly different execution.

• All professions will still perform all roles equally, and at the same time. But in the same way that you can trait to be slightly more tanky, or slight more team-supportive, you will now have minor skill options to reflect your build.

• If I want to be a ranger and wield a sword, I am no longer forced to run conditions. I can run support much easier if I have weapon skills that reflect how I am traited. Make sense?

• If anything, I would go as far as to say that this new system specifically makes it so that weapons no longer define what build you are capable of effectively playing. A player carrying a full support weapon bar would be no different that a player who currently carries full healing and spirits etc. The skills are designed to work together in a team. In solo play, the effects will automatically balance out because both players have the new skill system.

• This new system will also hopefully provide some teams protection from Zergs in WvWvW. My research is not fully conclusive at this point, but that is the direction that it is pointing me in.

• These new skills compliment your existing build, and they do not replace gear, traits or utility skills.

• Being able to have small benefits per need will help increase the play-ability of the game.

• Also, the new skills do not have large enough effects to be drastically effected by what traits you are running.

• Yes, a high-condition damage weapon build will work better if you are fully traited, but having a few support skills on your second weapon will not be rendered useless, even with no points allotted to them. They will be less effective, yes, slightly. No different that how in-effective your heal is is you do not fully trait for healing. It will not hamper your play, but it will slightly alter how you are currently playing.

• Builds are still effected the same way they would be without the new skills.

• This system is built SPECIFICALLY on top of the existing system. Actually, to be honest, this is the same EXACT system, but with new skills and M.E.S.A. for flavor. I extracted the current system, took it apart, studied it, looked for things that I could do to improve it… Skills. And play-styles. That is what it lacked. That is what I put in. This is still the Guild Wars 2 system in all aspects. …but elaborated more fully.

• A Warrior will still be a Warrior, a Ranger a Ranger. These skills will in no way take away or reduce the existing profession identities. Each professions already has the Damage, Support, Control system installed into it. I simply provided more skills, and added M.E.S.A. to allow players to have different styles of play depending on how they wanted to play, without the need for countless skills, a trinity or any other outside resources.

In lack of better words there-of, this system is simply a refined version of the system currently in use.

Thank you for sharing this with me, Lance. I think you’re having great progress there, and I really am very excited about a possibility of customizing weapon skills. I think that it is quite unanimous that while the current skill system is not bad, it could definitely use some improvement, and Arenanet shouldn’t content itself with just “not bad”. I am all for more customization and making my character more like I want him to be without so many previously established restrictions on what is possible to build in the game. I am a big fan of character customization overall, and more option is always a good thing on my list.

Now, I wouldn’t invest too much time into designing specific skills myself, as if Arenanet does endorse this idea, they will likely have their own vision of what is appropriate or not to use as skills, as it is something quite delicate that requires some deep analysis.

LanceHavenbay.2067:

No, the sad thing is that 90% of the community doesn’t give a crab about anything. They are neither constructive nor supportive of anything unless it allows them to exploit or otherwise impede on other people’s enjoyment. It’s sad they people are so content with a stale life, playing stale games to compliment them… A large majority of the Guild Wars 2 community does not care where the game goes, as long as they do not have to log in and post anything, or add any comment with significant value…

Sorry. Just the sheer lack of care for this game disgusts me. I’m used to growing up when communities actually put heart into the games they loved.

You’ve gotta be kidding me, everyone has an opinion, and they’re giving them all over the place. Saying that 90% of the player base wants to impede another person’s enjoyment is insane too.

I guess you haven’t seen all the complaining/constructive criticism going on here in the suggestion forums. Or the same going on in /map chat, or private conversations among friends.

Don’t believe me? Message a random person in the game and ask them what they think could be improved about it, more often than not they’ll have an opinion. Most people don’t bring their suggestions here because either they think someone else would of already, or they don’t think ArenaNet will read/listen to them anyway.

BananaMatrix.3702:

they don’t think ArenaNet will read/listen to them anyway.

When I ask random people they say this: “It is no use posting about anything because Anet doesn’t give a crab about suggestions. The game is already out, nothing will change. Not from you, not from anyone but Anet.”

That is probably the stupidest thing anyone could possibly say, and yet so many people say it. They really do not know Anet… at least what Anet was before Guild Wars 2. Who knows, maybe that part of Anet is just preoccupied…

Sorry, 90% was a vastly exaggerated statement. xD I’ll say 65% just because of the overwhelming amounts of threads with indirect complains, with nothing backing them other than pure, unadulterated opinions, with no real background on the subject.

Honestly, when I read through the forums, I see many bug reports, or complains about OP builds. Most of the active content I see has to to do with aesthetics or quick-to fix issues. With the exception of broken skill points, etc. If there is more in depth conetent that I somehow missed, I’d be more than happy to have you pm me it. If not, I’ll look around when I get the chance. This last step of this process is a doozy.

• You were to very in line to correct me on that statement. Having a bit of a rough day. xD It happens, shouldn’t have brought it here though.
  I would however, like to see more people, (if they have time), really taking the game apart and looking for errors or dysfunctions deeper than the immediate surface. Because, it is usually the things most obviously in sight that are overlooked.

As for skills, I’m designing them more for a point of reference, and to help players better understand this system. Not to say: “You have to use this!.”

• Like the examples above. I will be making as many as possible in order for people to truly take apart the functionality and be able to better comprehend the system.
  I really want to break past people, in a sense, that I want to make it painfully clear that is, in fact Anet’s system refined, and not some “new idea replacing it.” It’s like finding out your friend’s backpack has a hole in it and patching it for him. It may have been “not bad” with the hole. But with a nice patch, that’s one epic backpack!

• As for being delicate and requiring deep analysis, I believe I have more than proved my ability to delve deep into something and look at even the smallest fragments of it’s composition. The only thing I cannot do, legally, is test the skills in combat. I can however, look at existing skills and use their existing format as a great starting point.
• I do have a background in gaming development and have a very creative, explorative mindset. Mix that with dedication, and a passion to give everything my all, you have a lot put into the project.

I really like you left skill bar idea.

I would love for there to be greater customization with weapon skills but that’s not going to happen. We’ve been making suggestions to Anet like this for years and they’ve already said they won’t do it because it would be too much for them to balance.

/justsaying

I think most of us just want something other then doing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1

It seems to be the biggest gripe.

Having the ability to switch your offhand to mainhand for alternate skills would be nice, most people don’t post on forums period, since they are having fun ingame, and best case scenario, at most 10% of any game community actually reads the forums at all.

People post small things because they are being realistic :P You aren’t getting vast sweeping changes, though your effort is laudible

Yeah slotable weapon skills would be kind of fun, but I think it would be better if the 1st skill of every weapon would be fixed.
So If I equip a focus the number 4 skills is fixed to give a focus an idententy skill that I immediately assosiate with a focus. I also think that this would make two-handed weapons a bit more interesting because you already have more variaty in choosing your off-hand weapon freely in addition to you main hand weapon.

Also the thief dual skills might be a bit problematic here. Any ideas for this?

Hopefully, 2 warriors (for an example) would differ drastically with different modified/chosen skills. I’d like that. Currently, what I read in this post, “changes” seem to discreet and neglect-able. I’d love something like sub-professions, for instance a Berserker and a Juggernaut warrior. The execution doesn’t have to be in such a way that it becomes a dps or a tank warrior. But we already kinda have this, a glass cannon or a more sturdy warrior (tank).

The biggest mistake ANet made with GW2 is trying too hard to be different, at any cost. Don’t go along that path, just make the game bloody fun. Who cares if it has trinity, if it has raids, if it has Arenas, if it has more than 5 skills per weapon etc. I want FUN and DIVERSITY, not different compared to other games (WoW?) at any cost. And they did a lousy job so far.

To say they did a lousy job is ridiculous. Just like WoW did at launch, there is going to be some real world tweaking and changes to the game. WoW was not perfect at launch and had tons of issues.

Very nice, this is how it should be!

In my opinion, this will lead to the same unfixable system imbalances that GW1 had.

There is a reason they chose this structure. Currently they have to balance a set of five skills against a few other sets of five. Under your system, each and every skill would have to be balanced against it’s potential use with in conjunction with hundreds of other skills, thousands upon thousands of possible combinations for every single class. And just like the similar system in GW1, it will require constant changes, and even with constant adjustment it will never actually work as intended.

Look at the Elementalist, each of its skills must be balanced against it’s potential use with four times the abilities available to any other class, and Arenanet can’t even seem to manage it. What you’re suggesting is this same problem compounded by thousands.

To Zhaneel: “We’ve been making suggestions to Anet like this for years and they’ve already said they won’t do it because it would be too much for them to balance.”

• Actually, they said the vast skill amount caused unbalance. 2 new skills per bar is not nearly the amount provided in the previous Guild Wars, and therefore would not be even be ¼ the issue.

To Emikochan: “best case scenario, at most 10% of any game community actually reads the forums at all. People post small things because they are being realistic :P You aren’t getting vast sweeping changes, though your effort is laudible”

• I am currently involved in the community for Mechwarrior Online, and am pleased to say that nearly every member I have seen in combat, is also active in the forums. And the developers do take in everything posted, even as little as decorations for your mech. <3

• I honestly feel like the community for Guild Wars 2 is significantly less concerned about the future of the game. People in general have a tendency to be very short-sighted. In the short run, Guild Wars is a FANTASTIC game. But after the storyline, and a couple glory ranks, what are your striving for past ego and grind?

• As for being realistic, nothing is more realistic than a slap to the face. When players finish their storyline, and get tired of pressing 111, then what? What else do we have to offer them? Guild Wars 2, was for me, and many others, a game which was very enjoyable from the start, and quickly got tossed under the table and forgotten. This game loses value significantly with time played. You just do the same stuff over and over; time for a new game!

To Yandere: “Yeah slotable weapon skills would be kind of fun, but I think it would be better if the 1st skill of every weapon would be fixed.”

• I’ll keep that in mind. (: What is your idea then about obtaining skills through jumping puzzles? Should that be Utility skills only?

To Raging Bull: “Hopefully, 2 warriors (for an example) would differ drastically with different modified/chosen skills. I’d like that. Currently, what I read in this post, “changes” seem to discreet and neglect-able. I’d love something like sub-professions, for instance a Berserker and a Juggernaut warrior. The execution doesn’t have to be in such a way that it becomes a dps or a tank warrior. But we already kinda have this, a glass cannon or a more sturdy warrior (tank).”
“The biggest mistake ANet made with GW2 is trying too hard to be different, at any cost. Don’t go along that path, just make the game bloody fun. Who cares if it has trinity, if it has raids, if it has Arenas, if it has more than 5 skills per weapon etc. I want FUN and DIVERSITY, not different compared to other games (WoW?) at any cost. And they did a lousy job so far.”

• Exactly. Anet tried too hard to be different, and not better… That’s where I lost respect for the developers. It’s like that kid who tries too hard to be different. When in reality they just had to perfect themselves, rather than try to wear a different colored shirt than everyone else. How you perform is what matters, not what you look like.

To Ryth: “To say they did a lousy job is ridiculous. Just like WoW did at launch, there is going to be some real world tweaking and changes to the game. WoW was not perfect at launch and had tons of issues.’”

• In my eyes, the extent to what has been overlooked is unforgivable. If you design a game, you do not release it with bare bones unless you want it to be a social platform. And from my understanding, Anet wants this to be a competitive platform as well. Lousy, yes. Very lousy, yes. Why? “Facerolling. Lots of facerolling. Sounds legit.” Is about all the credit I can give to their skill-system developer’s thought process at the moment.

• And although I really do not enjoy being a thorn in people’s side, if sitting here making noise and waving my arms frantically grabs someone’s attention, and they mindlessly take my pamphlet, and toss it in the trash… and then a hobo picks it up and likes it and shares it with his buddy who isn’t a hobo, and happens to work at the place… and that idea is seen, and maybe even considered. Fine. Expect me to protest out in front of your building. If my idea doesn’t get picked up, fine. I know I am trying. If it is vain, so be it. If down the road I am right, I will not say “I told you so.” I will say: “Yeah? So how can we get this party started?!” Most people miss obvious flaws. The least noticed things are often in the most obvious places.

To Conncept: “Under your system, each and every skill would have to be balanced against it’s potential use with in conjunction with hundreds of other skills, thousands upon thousands of possible combinations for every single class.”

• No. xD Just no. I think you missed the point that this system only adds 2 skills per slot. The whole extra Utilities was just a side project that I paired with the M.E.S.A. because it looked better presentation-wise.

• 2 Skills per slot, isn’t as much customization as you seem to think. It will open avenues for player customize their build, but not the whole city,— like in Guild Wars 1. And just like now, traiting for damage and running full heal, makes the skills useless. These skills do nothing but provide balance, while allowing creativity. Similar to if you gave a lever longer arms on the same fulcrum. The balance remains the same, but a longer range of motion can be provided without truly altering how the mechanic works. *Adding 2 skills per slot is essentially the same thing as adding an inch to each side of the lever. *The functionality of these skills, are no different from the skills currently in place. The only difference is that you will see different builds. You can see several different types of warriors, all with similar functions, but with different play-styles. They move with ultimately the same purpose, but in HOW they move will be different.

• If you look at the M.E.S.A. from a mathematical standpoint, the only thing you change by adding new skills is where you can place your effort. Do you want to place it closer to the middle, more support? Or, more to one of the sides: damage or control. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, that within these 3 roles, you still have to take into consideration that there ARE PROFESSIONS still to factor in. Professions effect how you carry out your role, not how EFFECTIVELY you carry it out. How effective you are comes from your skill as a player.

• If you want Guardians to be superior at Support, you are saying that Guardians are now dumbed down monks. And thus Guild Wars 2 is still under that trinity you all keep trying to avoid. I say, give every class the opportunity to be whatever they want. However they want it. Whether that be a mix, or a friendly dagger to the face.

And just to be clear: Movement, Effect, Survival, Activities is nothing more than a simple way of defining how skills function. This is already in the game. I just gave it a name.

• The main focus of this system, although it falls under the “M.E.S.A. Project”, is to add more areas for a player to apply effort. Aka, more openness for personalization of builds without sacrificing balance.

Thank you to everyone here for reading this thread. I greatly appreciate it. As I said before: please feel free to contact me with any ideas or opinions you may have!

Sorry, sorry, sorry. Early morning. No sleep!

To Conncept: "Look at the Elementalist, each of its skills must be balanced against it’s potential use with four times the abilities available to any other class, and Arenanet can’t even seem to manage it. "

• Well, if they want anything past a single person story-mode, they better learn to manage it! (Funny, because that’s how many people I talk to feel about the game. That is is very quiet and unsocial.) Or expect a dead game. People complain about Guild Wars being so balanced, yet it lasted 7 years… (Not saying it was balanced, or that it wasn’t a pain to balance.) What I am saying, is even with this M.E.S.A. Project, the developers will still only need to put in less than 1/4 the effort as previously. And this will help them prevent boring anymore players to death.

• Diablo 2 was extremely successful, and pretty unbalanced. Yet people LOVED the game. Having the best gear was a big step to winning. Oh, and you cannot really go back to fix mistakes you make. You better plan from the get-go! Guild Wars 2 isn’t even perfectly balanced, AND it is a facroll fest of 11111 AND it has no endgame past weapon and pointless title grind. It is just artwork. Cool, it gets to sit on my shelf and look pretty while I play other games. If you want me to buy your game, and play it, and support you, you better dang well make the game playable in the long run.

• I cannot even get past the little announcement part of the splash screen without getting bored. The little media hype bulletin about Live Game Development makes me laugh, and then it hits me: “Yeah, no. This game is boring.” I click the X and move on with my life. I’ve allowed several of my friends to use my account as a “free trial” and they were completely bored just exploring. Why? “It feels like I just did this.” …“Is there like… another skill for this sword? This one is getting kind of lame.”

• Guild Wars 2 is not a model for other games to be built around. It is a media-hyped fashion star with no brains, and pretty eye makeup that other people mention for style, not functionality. That is the only “model” that it is. Good looking may take home some fans, but people are eventually going to get tired of how boring you are. You don’t put out either. No end-game. God-forbid, babies. If you want me to spend time with you, have a relationship with you, (because, you know gamers and their game-relationships) you better start using your brain.

Enough analogies. Goodnight everyone.
Here is a random picture of my awesome bird, who delivers my mail when you all respond.

I like the sound of this.. I hope it goes somewhere.. I understand they didn’t want to make GW2 as complicated as GW1 as far as build goes.. but man I miss that customizability. Just making it so each weapon skill slot only had 2 – 4 options would make me happy.. or make it so each weapon had 9 main hand skills and 6 offhand skills and you could pick from those.. anything, anything at all to make it a little more customizable.. it’s alright as it stands but I wish there was a little more to it.

Haven skills for jumping puzzles is a bit odd imo. I enjoy doing jumping puzzles and I think they are fun from time to time, but adding a gain to them other than the archivement points and a chest is problematic.

The best example that comes to mind are the datacrons from SWTOR. These are ment for exploration but give a permanent buff to your stats. They are reached via jumping puzzle but the boost is so significant thatyou cannot call them optional anymore.

I like my optional content in the game. Jumping puzzles in guild wars (except for two, which re fairly easy) are optional content and I like to see it that way.

But another thing that I stumbled upon. Is there any good reason why the gap closer on the melee weapon isn’t always on number 2 for example.

To Yandere: The jumping puzzle skills will be no more powerful than skills already in the game. They will follow the same balance. As mentioned before, the same way traps have fire, ice and spikes. They will be completely optional, and will not put you above anyone else. Same thing as how dungeon armors already are. I believe I stated that above. Dungeon armors, I’m pretttyyyy sure…? Provide unique gear stats. Right? But if they are game breaking, we would not have them. Correct? Same deal with the jumping puzzle skills.

Also, for those reading:

• Please make note of the following, as it IS VERY IMPORTANT. Because of the current system in place in Guild Wars 2, it is very difficult to fall into a tank, dps or healer role. Each of the 3 new roles, Damage, Support, Control, is spread over each profession. Some having a little more of one than the other, and vice versa. The M.E.S.A. Project does not break this. It adheres directly to the format already in place. Yes, you will be able to be more effective at said role, but in no way will you be a static needed resource, as you would be in the Tank, DPS, Healer system.

PLEASE ALSO REMEMBER:

• You have two weapon sets!!! You have two roles! So, it will be up to you as a player to trait according to your needs. You skills will be more dominant in your traited hand, but not ineffective in your un, or less-traited hand.

• An example being, carrying a condition and heal build. Which is what my Ranger currently runs. It does work. And it does not break the system. It already exists in game!

• If I am traited for more powerful heals, my passive benefit is that my self heal is effected and heals me for more. My active benefit is that when I swap to my support weapon, I can utilize it more fully. AND, I can still be dishing out damage, using a skill slot still dedicated to condition damage that I also traited for.

• You can mix and match or lean more to one side than the other. Please note: we do not really have super powerful team heals. That being said, trying to become a healer equivalent will be short lived and end up making you a useless team member. All rules of the current system still apply. This is a team effort. Work with your team to stay alive. Plan with your team to stay alive!

This is not a new system folks, it is the current version, refined!

Easy with the bold man, your text is painful to read.

A trick: Just read the bold, unless you feel like reading everything. Then read everything. That is what it is there for. How I bold this was formed from previous posted and people asking repetitive questions. If you read the bold, at the very least I do not have to repeat myself. The bold contains the key parts. You can skip everything else if you do not care that much. And I’d prefer it hurt your eyes and you have some point of reference than have you get lost in a novel. Sorry if it hurts your eyes though. Solid white and black can do that.

• I re-read everything that I post and what other people post, and can handle it. It is what it is.

With the exception of a completed skill list, this M.E.S.A. Project is very near to completion. Please make sure to add commentary or ask questions about any part of the thread. Your comments and questions help shape the future of this project!

I am currently on the last step for the M.E.S.A. Project. The last step, is me taking apart the existing skills, giving them properties and then sorting them. After they have been sorted, I will create new skills as examples for you and the developers to review. …in order for you to get a better understanding of what to expect from the M.E.S.A. Project.

Just a note before you read on:

• The M.E.S.A. Project, is not definitive. Just because a Greatsword is a Survival weapon, does not mean that ALL of it’s skills must be Survival based. It simply means that, overall, that is the skill trend that you will see within the weapon. Greatswords are just as much for damage as they are for anything else. Of course, a Shield is going to be much more Survival based than a Greatsword or a Hammer.

*M.E.S.A. Roles for weapons are still under development, so do not fret if things look different in the future. Chances are, they will stay the same, but no promises.

A basic, rough overview of the M.E.S.A. system:

• Movement: Move directly toward, away from, or around the enemy.
  Effect: Long recharge, for a high direct output effect.
  Survival: Stationary evades, protection, blocks, absorption
  Active: Skill requires channel for greater effect, skill does more damage per projectile travel time, skill effect lasts a decent duration or lasting boons.

Those lists may grow as I continue work on the project. Some skills are harder to categorize, and therefore I will list it in a way that I feel best suites the skill description and effect. Stalker’s Strike is a perfect example. I made it a “Mobile Damage” skill. Why? You move to inflict damage. Yes, the damage lasts a long time, and is reapplied. But the point being, it is a way to move/evade toward your target and damage them. Skills like that may change in the future, from my hand or your opinion. So please feel free to critique anything you see.

Guild Wars 2, basic role description: (Also a draft.)
Damage: This should explain itsself. xD
Support: Evade, dodge, heal, protect
Control: Forced movement of an enemy, immobilization of an enemy, daze, stun, cripple

These roles work alongside the M.E.S.A. system. It will be common for you to see this listed as one of the same/complimenting a M.E.S.A. letter.

Skills have a tag that defines how they are used.

• Here is the meaning: M.E.S.A. Letter/Role Letter

The reason may be added in parentheses to clarify why the skill/role is listed as it is.

Chain skills are 3 skills combined, for those of you that do not know…
-Extra love is planned for them in the near future, so do not be alarmed that some have Not/Applicable next to them. (N/A)

Possible solutions: Keep chains the same/don’t add new chains. (As suggested by someone in the thread.)
Add M.E.S.A. effects to chain skills that lack it currently. I.E. Give Slash, Slice and Slash E/D. (Effect/Damage) This means leaving their damage the same, but giving them a listing as a direct damage skill, since most Support/Control skills already lack excessive damage. OR, slightly buffing their damage, or giving them an effect. This is still being worked on. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Proffession Skill chart for a Ranger:

M.E.S.A. Per Weapon

-1>Slash, N/A
-1>Slice, N/A

Greatsword:

• Movement: 1
  -3Swoop, M(Leap)/D(Nearby-Foes)

• Effect: 2
  -2Maul, E(ShortBleed)/D
  -5Hilt Bash, E(DazeStun)/D(50%Pet)

• Survival: 2
  -1Power Stab, S(NoMove-Evade)/S
  -4Counter-Attack, S(Block)/C(Push-Cripple)

Longbow:

• Active: 4
  -1Long Range Shot, A/D
  -2Rapid Fire, A/D
  -3Hunter’s Shot, A/D(Vulnerable)
  -5Barrage , A/C(Cripple)

• Movement:
  -4Point Blank Shot, M(MovesTarget)/C(ForceMove)

Shortbow:

• Movement: 1
  -3QuickShot: M(Dodge)/S(Boon)

• Active: 1
  -1Crossfire, A(ShortDuration,ReappliedFreq.)/D

• Effect: 3
  -2PoisonVolley, E(Potent-ShortDuration)/D
  -4CripplingShot, E(HighCondDamage)/D(DamageOutweighsCrip)
  -5ConcussionShot, E(Daze-Stun,Long Recharge)/C

1>Slash N/A

Sword:

• Movement: 3
  -1>Pounce, M/D
  -2HornetSting, M/C(Cripple)
  -3Serpent’s Strike, M/D(LastingCondition)

• Active: 1
  -1>Kick, A(Reapplied)/C

Axe: (O)= Offhand

• Effect: 2
  -2Splitblade E(AllOnlyHitIfUpClose-Recharge)/D
  -3Winter’s Bite E/C(Chill)
  -4(O)Path of Scars, E(DirectHit, NotSustained)/D

• Survival:
  -5(O)Whirling Defense, S(Block)/D(DamagesWhileBlocking)

• Active: 1
  -1Ricochet, A(CanSpam)/D(MultipleFoekitten)

Dagger: (O)= Offhand

Movement: 1
*-4(O)Stalker’s Strike, M(Evade)/D

• Effect: 1
  -5(O)Crippling Talon, E(LongRecharge)/C(6secondCripple)

Torch:

• Effect: 2
  -4Throw Torch, E/D
  -5Bonfire, E/D

Warhorn:

• Active: 2
  -4Hunter’s Call, A/D
  -5Call of the Wild A/S(Boons)

Hopefully this was easier for all of you to read. This skill portion of the project is much easier to list than the fleshy information. I have attempted to sort everything in a way that makes it easy for you to skip lines while you look for relevant information.

As always, please be sure to check back once a week and provide input on anything posted in this thread. I will do my very best to get back to you in a timely manner. Anything you do post, will be taken heavily into consideration. This is not just a project for myself, it is a project for everyone playing the game. So speak your voice. BE LOUD! BE HEARD!!! xD

I will try to post the new Ranger skills next, so that you can see the draft of what I am truly working on at the moment. As for the rest of M.E.S.A., AKA everything but the skills themselves… It is finished. I feel that the current state of the project is ready for submission to Anet, except the need for new skills to be listed in order to properly demonstrate how the system works. AND to help me better work out any kinks that may still be in the system.

Also, I see Anet is adding new events across the world? Woot woot, keep it up!

Wow! You have some really great ideas there.

I like the idea of making your weapon skills customizable in some way. I especially like Replect’s example of how it could work. It has a lot of potential.

Top marks.

This definetly needs a bump…quality thought out post with good ideas.

For the most part, we need more skills on the left bar because having 5 is just not enough and is a general gripe with the more experienced and better players.

Glad you all like it. I’m working hard on the new skills and finishing up with existing skills. Hopefully I’ll have a system to submit in a while.

Please also be sure to check out the post about new PvP formats and events!

yandere.9176:

Also the thief dual skills might be a bit problematic here. Any ideas for this?

Haven’t forgot about you. Just been busy. xD Working on it. Skills can’t be too hard to make, keeping in mind that Guild Wars 1 was already released, which is where new skill ideas, or at least names, will come from. Balance takes time, but it is not ridiculously hard. Unless you forgot to tape before you paint…

I look forward to trying to put out a decent Thief bar made of new skills for you and everyone else, alongside the new Ranger bar.

Props @LanceHavenbay
I did have the same idea with weapon skills and more build customization through them while not harming the current system. I can’t believe you actually put my mind into effect , very well done.
By the way I think the necro needs some more channeling spells

Thank you. I am a very passionate person, and I love to put my heart into the things that interest me. Guild Wars 2, overall, is a great game. The skill system just needs major love.

Please pm/post any ideas you may have for the project. Even skill ideas, functions, etc.

A member in my guild was wondering if something like this will occur and he was thinking using all our useless achievement medals for unlocking new weapon skills in this manner as he hates doing vistas/jumping puzzles.

My only issue with this is that we all don’t end up with another pvx wiki build site and everyone uses the best or most powerful build out of your new improvement to the existing system. AKA discord way/sabway/FotM-week builds (barfs). And you have the sort of mentality among players “Use this build or never enter my party again!” garbage that occurred in GW 1. I think that’s the reason Anet may have went this route with little or no customization except, traits/two weapon sets (and four attunements for ele) and 1 heal, 3 utility, and one elite formula for our bars.

Don’t get me wrong here, I like what you are doing but we have to make sure that sort of power creep doesn’t funnel into GW 2 again as it did in GW 1.

Raging Bull.5048:

The sad thing is that it seems community is supposed to do the developing these days, but still pay the “developers”.

The good thing is there are people intelligent enough and with enough good will (and spare time) to do other people’s jobs for the greater good of us gamers.

ANet, take the free advice you’ve been offered right here and do GW2 some justice. Shame on you.

Not everyone believes this combat system is stale and/or bad. And don’t says “us gamers”. You don’t speak for me, nor my friends, nor the random people I play with.

I’m pretty freakin’ happy with the product I have now. Some people aren’t. That’s why they are here suggesting ideas. But that’s what this is; a suggestion thread. Not a “Let’s bash ANet, guys!” thread. They poured hours into this game and I can say that, as a game developer myself, the last thing I’d want to hear is “You’re lazy!” It’s obvious they put a lot of effort into the game. The 61+ critics on Metacritic can see that. Not sure why you can’t.

With all that being said, allow me to actually contribute to this thread;

1st things 1st: I don’t find the game stale in any way, shape, or form. However, I am always open to more ideas that can add even more depth to the combat system.

For starters, Lance, I really like the idea of having multiple skill options for weapon skills. My only concern is… why? When a weaponset is already balanced and achieves a set goal, why add more skills for no reason?

Take the warrior for example (since that profession is easy to explain):

Swords = Condition damage.
Axes = critical damage/combination of single target and AoE damage.
Maces = Crowd control and blocks.
Hammers = Crowd control and AoE.
Greatsword = Heavy duty AoE
Rifles = Single target ranged damage.
Longbows = AoE ranged damage.
Shields = Block and Crowd Control.

With all these weapons already doing nearly every sort of ‘damage role’ in the game, why would ANet bother to add more skills just so Sword/Sword can be a defensive weapon instead of a condition damage based weapon when Mace/Mace or Mace/Shield is designed for such defensive purposes?

Mind you I’m not attempting to be rude in any way, shape, or form. I’m just expressing my thoughts about your suggestion. I respect my fellow players

It is simply because you as a player are forced to a premade skill bar. You cannot change the skills all the way to lv 80 wich gets very boring , in fact there is no skill progression besides the utilities that all have big cooldowns and most of them are just passives.
Another reason is that there are some skills you don’t prefer but take a skill slot unnecessarily and you cannot switch between 10 weapons to pick them mid combat.
In addition it would open more build variations but in no means should we get back to the Holy Trinity. It should just improve on the current system as said before.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Don’t get me wrong here, I like what you are doing but we have to make sure that sort of power creep doesn’t funnel into GW 2 again as it did in GW 1.

I appreciate that. And no, this doesn’t even add enough skills to count as another class. It isn’t that hard to balance at all. It will not fall into that rut. Plus, the system for Guild Wars 2 is entirely different. It is practically impossible because each profession is just a flavor of the same thing. The only way to fall into that rut would be to change the system entirely. And this project does not change the functionality of the system, it just refines what it already has.

Amiron.1067:

1st things 1st: I don’t find the game stale in any way, shape, or form. However, I am always open to more ideas that can add even more depth to the combat system.

For starters, Lance, I really like the idea of having multiple skill options for weapon skills. My only concern is… why? When a weaponset is already balanced and achieves a set goal, why add more skills for no reason?

First off, thank you very much. It is great to see players with the mindset, “I’m always open for improvement.” And contributing their ideas in a well thought out manner.

The reason is more for variety than functionality. Yes, the current skills are balance. I have a pair of shoes that get the job done, but I also have a second pair of shoes that perform in a different way with equal balance. This system is to allow people creativity in their bar without disrupting functionality.

Like you said:

• Each weapon has a set role. The beauty about Guild Wars 1 was that
  picking a weapon, or even a profession did not cage you in and sage THIS IS WHAT YOU MUST BE. And, following the artistic side of the game. Many people like walking around with their awesome looking weapon. In Guild Wars 1, people would bring this item even if they could not use it effectively. It was another way to make the game more enjoyable. Bringing my VS, Tormented shield, etc.

• Another reason behind it, is if Guild Wars 2 is going to be a competitive game, it NEEDS variety. Why? With so few bars, and so few ways to play… There is no surprise. Nothing new to keep the crowd ooing and awing. Look at that Warrior with a sword! He is running… oh… condition damage. Like everyone else. You are forced into specific specs. It is sad, and it is really bad for the longevity of the game.

And for many people, simply changing your bar is much more fun than having to completely re-role your character to a different profession.

You are not rude at all. You should have seen previous posters raging at me for having different ideas than them. It was a hate crime! xD

• 3 Different/interchangeable Warriors is much more pleasing to an audience, that seeing a Warrior and knowing what he has. If the audience already knows what you have and how you run, then their really is not much excitement and reason to watch the fight in the first place.

*Now, traits and gear:

• Yes, they SLIGHTLY effect how you can play. But you are still forced into the role your weapon gives you. If you try to squeeze out, you become extremely ineffective. It will render most skills on your weapon bar useless.

If I run Power/Precision on my sword, I want to be able to use it for real. Not pretend that I use it. That is about the best you can do right now. Pretend you have power with a sword.

Sacros basically said it for me.

Thank you very much for your reply. I look forward to hearing back from you soon!

I got an idea, for the thieves! Cluster Bomb!

Default Cluster Bomb: Fires off a cluster bomb that detonates in mid-air at will.
Range: 900
Large Explosion: 487
Small Explosion: 168
Combo Finisher: Blast
Uses 4 initiatives
Bleeding x3 (per cluster hit)

OPPA MESA STYLE~!

Movement:
Fires off 2 cluster fragments on opposite directions.
Shadowstep on target location
No bleed.
12 damage. (To make it a realistic explosion)
4 initiatives.
No finisher.

Effect:
Fires off 6 homing cluster fragments.
8 initiatives.
3/4 casting
6x bleeds 2 seconds.
575 damage.
No finisher.

Survival:
Fires off 3 cluster fragments.
Blinding nearby foes for 2.5 seconds.
4 initiatives.
1/2 casting.
75 damage.
Blast Finisher.

Active:
Fires off 2 cluster fragments mid-air.
1 initiative.
1/2 casting.
Deals 35 damage.
Blast Finisher.

Your MESA is a bit mixed up still. It is not the same skill with several modes… There will be new skills entirely.

I dont want 58 skills per character..if you want a game like WoW so much..go play WoW..the most Id want is more weapon slots and less cooldown on swapping weapons