Guild Wars 2

There has been a lot of discussion around this proposed feature. I had not expected it to be quite as polarizing as it was. After some really good discussion, and suggestions that people have made in the thread as well as pointing out potential flaws in game imbalance if the skill were allowed to be used in Player-vs.-Player or World-vs.-World scenarios, I’ve decided to re-write and present the idea in a different way. Thank you to Daenji for the suggestion.

There are several classes, Thief and Mesmer come to mind, that have stealth and invisibility-based skills and who could both benefit in a PvE environment from a longer duration stealth skill; similarly I’m sure there are other classes for which this would fit as well (some people have suggested the Ranger). The majority of these skills are combat-centric lasting 3-5 seconds. In addition to these skills I would really like to see a longer duration Stealth ability, for use in Player-vs.-Environment gameplay only. If it could be balanced properly, it would be nice to see it in World-vs.-World as well, but that is not the focus of this suggestion.

Usage of the skill immediately stealths a character, abiding by all of the same restrictions of current stealth mechanics, e.g. attacking instantly breaks stealth. Most non-combative actions would not affect state of stealth (i.e. gathering, reviving, etc.), including the usage of [some] tactical skills (e.g. traps). This skill would be unusable during combat. This skill would not be available during PvP matches. The duration of this skill would be controlled by a character’s endurance, moving while stealthed would deplete endurance and when endurance reaches 0 the stealth would be broken.

I imagine it being used in the following way(s): exploration, uninterrupted gathering, the ability to steal (no-damage) outside of combat in PvE, and the ability to start combat off with a backstab in PvE.

Bullet Point List of a Longer Duration Stealth Skill:

• Cannot be activated when in combat, can only be used outside of combat. Follows the same rules as the ability for a player to change their healing, utility, and elite skills. Also adheres to existing stealth ability rules and what will cause stealth to be broken.
• Unavailable for usage in WvW or PvP; similar to how certain skills are made unavailable for underwater content.
• Stealth skill does not begin recharging until after stealth is broken.
• A reasonable cool down, so that Thieves cannot execute the stealth skill back-to-back-to-back (30 seconds? 45 seconds? 60 seconds? More?).
• Stealthed characters would have two different states to their stealth, fully hidden and obfuscated. Obfuscated thieves would be visible in the same way that stealthed mobs and NPCs are where they refract light but they can still be seen. The difference between these two states is determined by proximity to hostile enemies. An obfuscated character is visible to perceptive players and has a harder time maintaining their stealth. In addition, a character who is actively moving around is easier to spot than one standing still in a good hiding spot.
  • If a character is not near any hostile enemies (e.g. 1200 units or further away from any hostile enemy) the character remains invisible.
  • Within N units the character becomes obfuscated and their endurance slowly drains as they try to maintain their hidden state.
• Not a combat skill, though might have some application in tactical positioning for an initial strike.
• A character’s armor rating would be reduced while in stealth, making it less attractive in combat, even in first-strike usage.
• Stealth would be broken when: the stealthed character takes damage, enters combat (e.g. attacks a target), dodges, and, possibly, begins reviving a target (pending a review as to whether this currently breaks existing stealth or not).
• Stealth would be tied to endurance; moving while in stealth uses a little bit of endurance with different amounts being used depending on whether you are walking (less endurance used) or running (normal endurance amount used). Standing still would slowly regenerate endurance. When your endurance reaches 0 your stealth ends.

NB: There are other ideas that complement the above in various posts throughout this thread, not all are listed here and many have merit.

+1……………………

ZhangoSqu.5219:

I know some people may disagree with this, but I would love to see additional profession skills added to the Thief, and one I would really like is a longer (or indefinite) Stealth ability.

I would personal like to see the ability be implemented something like the following:

Usage of the skill immediately stealths a character, as the current mechanics for other stealth abilities do today, with all of the same restrictions applying, e.g. attacking instantly breaks stealth. Most non-combative actions would not affect the Thief’s stealth (i.e. gathering, reviving, etc.), including laying [some] traps. This skill would be disabled during combat. This skill would last indefinitely until broken or ended by the player. Further more the Thief could have their movement speed reduced while stealthed using this profession skill.

I imagine it being used in the following way(s): exploration, scouting WvW areas, uninterrupted gathering, the ability to steal (no-damage) outside of combat, and the ability to start combat off with a backstab.

While I miss my stealth classes (played both Ranger and NS in DAoC) and I would love to see this, I’m not sure reviving should be on the list of activities that does not break stealth. That could be problematic in WvWvW.

Phaedryn.3698:

While I miss my stealth classes (played both Ranger and NS in DAoC) and I would love to see this, I’m not sure reviving should be on the list of activities that does not break stealth. That could be problematic in WvWvW.

Fair enough, I only mention reviving not breaking stealth because, as far as I can tell it doesn’t break Stealth now with Hide in Shadows or Shadow Refuge.

DO NOT add in a long stealth class. It’s just ruiining it for everyone else. Invites griefers, gankers, and immature players. Look at EVERY full stealth class in other games and the type of players that play them, especially in hotjoin random bg’s. Please, no.

I personally would not like it. This is my biased opinion though, I do not play stealth classes, but I think that full invisibility would be a major imbalancer for the game. I’m sure Anet analyzed the possibility, and still chose not to implement it (which is good in my opinion).

gwawer.9805:

… It’s just ruiining it for everyone else. Invites griefers, gankers, and immature players. Look at EVERY full stealth class in other games and the type of players that play them, especially in hotjoin random bg’s.

It would all depend on the skill’s viability for combat—which I don’t feel should be the main focus of the skill. If a character’s speed was reduced to that of walking while in stealth it would be harder for them to initiate an attack on a mobile opponent without planning or that opponent being idle. All of these are hallmarks of a thief (and/or assassin) in most high fantasy game settings.

Kal.2376:

… I think that full invisibility would be a major imbalancer for the game. I’m sure Anet analyzed the possibility, and still chose not to implement it (which is good in my opinion).

I’m not sure the sophistication of the mob intelligence in GW2, but other MMO’s have different triggers for hostile enemies: line of sight, proximity (e.g. sound and smell). If ArenaNET has these same factors, Stealth would online break line-of-sight. It is possible that Stealth would not be as effective (or at all effective) against smell-or-sound triggered enemies. Granted this does not exactly solve the PvP aspect of a long duration stealth but I think a reduction in movement speed would offset a lot of the benefit a long-duration stealth would give to a thief in combat.

Regardless, I appreciate both of your input on this suggestion. I do understand where both of you are coming from. Part of my feeling is that the thief just doesn’t feel… “thiefy” enough, there isn’t a lot of uniqueness to them that many of the other classes have.

NO full stealth please. Thieves already stealth enough.
You could just run a full guild of thieves in WvW and cap points without people even knowing you were there.
Everyone else needs to run through enemies to gather or get a vista and so should thieves.
And they already got too many abilities to keep up with enemies moving or dodging so you would give them another chance to start combat straight at melee range.

I don’t know much about thieves, but I think full invisibility would ruin their fun in PvE.
I am a Mesmer and I can sneak unseen into a pretty large Inquest camp by keeping myself in stealth and hiding thanks to the environment. If I, a Mesmer, am able to do something like that, probably a thief is ALREADY able to do much better.

So improving stealth could make the challenge too much easy,I think. And it would probably ruin the fun.

Give us a freaking counter to stealth and maybe I would agree to this, but as is with no counter to stealth it’s already stupid OP

Igolbug.7295:

Give us a freaking counter to stealth and maybe I would agree to this, but as is with no counter to stealth it’s already stupid OP

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by a counter to stealth? I’m interested to hear your suggestion in how the original idea could be improved upon.

Igolbug.7295:

Give us a freaking counter to stealth and maybe I would agree to this, but as is with no counter to stealth it’s already stupid OP

The only thing I can think that would make stealth easier to counter would be to have them still visible at close range, in the sense of how the Inquest can occasionally be seen while moving when stealth. There’s a good example of this in Metrica Province by a Hylek Village where you can see stealth Inquest walking through the vilage by the effect they have.
If they made this apply to only a long term stealth option you’d still be vulnerable because you’d be visible if people are looking out for you.

I see this as being a really cool idea, but if implemented, how do you provide something similar for all professions? You could add stealth detection, but that would just become an annoyance. As seen in many other games, a permanent stealth option is just plain annoying. Though it is fun for the person using it, it is not fun for anyone else. The stealth is fine the way it is.

Perma-stealth is highly annoying in open-world PvP. I’m glad Anet has balanced a class around having stealth as an ‘out’ rather than an ‘in’.

I like that the Thief in this game is much more balanced around misdirection and being evasive rather than perma-invisible literally ALL the time. It is refreshing that they stepped away from that concept IMO.

Ikavan.2876:

I see this as being a really cool idea, but if implemented, how do you provide something similar for all professions? You could add stealth detection, but that would just become an annoyance. As seen in many other games, a permanent stealth option is just plain annoying. Though it is fun for the person using it, it is not fun for anyone else. The stealth is fine the way it is.

Ah, okay I see what was meant by a counter. Yeah, I actually like that, there are a couple of places where I’ve seen that throughout the game with enemies.

Ikavan.2876:

I see this as being a really cool idea, but if implemented, how do you provide something similar for all professions? You could add stealth detection, but that would just become an annoyance. As seen in many other games, a permanent stealth option is just plain annoying. Though it is fun for the person using it, it is not fun for anyone else. The stealth is fine the way it is.

Dark Savior.7589:

I like that the Thief in this game is much more balanced around misdirection and being evasive rather than perma-invisible literally ALL the time. It is refreshing that they stepped away from that concept IMO.

Misdirection and evasive is one thing, but I feel like the fact that evasion via stealth (the way the thief is currently done) is not unique enough seeing as there are other classes that have the same types of ability. If not perma-stealth, the thief still needs something that adds a little more uniqueness to their gameplay.

Every time I play thief I instinctively look for the “Hide” skill when I see a group of monsters, but of course I can never find it lol.
Stealth skills are in the game, but are very limited.
Thief, at least, needs a long duration stealth skill
Like “F2” 25 seconds stealth. Disabled on action, cannot be cast during combat.

I would agree with this provided it could not be cast during combat, that it could be broken by AoE/environmental damage or incidental damage if a player or monster cast in the right spot, and if you added some limit on where it could be activated. For example, make it dynamic and a state that could only be entered if the Thief is not in direct view or full light. There was a mechanic in Age of Conan that kind of worked this way and forced stealth to be used more carefully and in the right places. That would make it a tactical skill and much more difficult to abuse. You might also look into something like having it be endurance dependent. As if moving while in this state would require unusual levels of care and concentration not allowing for it to be maintained indefinitely, only much longer. This especially makes sense if the state did not decrease movement speed.

They already got too much stealth, in combat → sometimes <- I cant even see my oponent more than one second or less.
As a “outside” from combat I would agree.

Alexander Quess.1932:

Like “F2” 25 seconds stealth. Disabled on action, cannot be cast during combat.

Daenji.5280:

I would agree with this provided it could not be cast during combat, that it could be broken by AoE/environmental damage or incidental damage if a player or monster cast in the right spot, and if you added some limit on where it could be activated.

Wraith.4103:

They already got too much stealth, in combat -> sometimes <- I cant even see my oponent more than one second or less.
As a “outside” from combat I would agree.

Yeah the whole idea of this long duration stealth skill is an “out of combat” skill. I agree with Daenji that the stealth should be be broken by environmental damage, invidental damage, etc.

Really what it boils down to is, if the thief gets caught off guard while in stealth by an attack they get kicked out of the stealth skill. Another thing that could be done is to reduce a Thief’s armor rating while in stealth, such that if they do get caught in a field of combat while stealthed they are going to take more damage.

Daenji.5280:

For example, make it dynamic and a state that could only be entered if the Thief is not in direct view or full light. There was a mechanic in Age of Conan that kind of worked this way and forced stealth to be used more carefully and in the right places. That would make it a tactical skill and much more difficult to abuse. You might also look into something like having it be endurance dependent. As if moving while in this state would require unusual levels of care and concentration not allowing for it to be maintained indefinitely, only much longer. This especially makes sense if the state did not decrease movement speed.

I think as long as the Thief is out of combat mode than it might be enough to allow its activation (just like how we can’t change our healing, utility, and elite skills when we’re in combat). Though, that being said, I do like your idea of making it endurance dependent.

The mechanic could be that every time you move it uses a little bit of endurance, once your endurance reaches 0, your stealth ends. If you stand still your endurance will recharge. This allows you to have stealth as long as you are moving carefully. In addition you could further tie it to movement speed, if you are walking you use less endurance if you are moving at normal run speed you use more endurance.

I did find it odd that GW2 thieves didn’t have a perma-stealth (I almost always roll thieves in MMOs), but I can see why they did away with it. with a more active combat system and PvP anyone can get into instantly, adding indefinite invisibility would need major balancing. I’m willing to bet they already tried it very early on and did away with it due to issues.

jovian.2805:

I did find it odd that GW2 thieves didn’t have a perma-stealth (I almost always roll thieves in MMOs), but I can see why they did away with it. with a more active combat system and PvP anyone can get into instantly, adding indefinite invisibility would need major balancing. I’m willing to bet they already tried it very early on and did away with it due to issues.

You’re absolutely right, but seeing as we have no way of knowing for certain—and the skill is a hallmark of the character type, I figured it was at least worth lobbying for. It seems like people are pretty evenly divided between “do want”, “do not want” and otherwise indifferent.

I like it as is, it gives you a small window to escape or use your stealth opener on your target, if they gave us this we would need to be nerfed majorly in other areas and i dont want that.

The allergy many people seem to have regarding stealth is very hypocritical when many of those same people insist on embracing other ‘tropes’ associated with other professions.

Thieves are meant to fight in a dirty manner and most of their abilities follow that theme. Though I worry that if we did get a more in-depth stealth system it would lead to adjustments elsewhere.

It’s just a shame that so many of the nay-sayers are the same people who aren’t likely to even play the class in question. Hopefully Arena Net take their thoughts with a hefty pinch of salt!

ANet has already said multiple times that Thieves will -never- get a long-lasting stealth skill. They don’t approve of the gameplay that it promotes.

Illushia.3721:

ANet has already said multiple times that Thieves will -never- get a long-lasting stealth skill. They don’t approve of the gameplay that it promotes.

I wasn’t aware of their stance on this (though given the omission of the skill, it isn’t surprising to hear it). Can you cite any references/sources where someone from ArenaNET has discussed this topic? I’d love to read what ArenaNET had to say and their reasoning behind their stance.

Garenthal.1480:

The allergy many people seem to have regarding stealth is very hypocritical when many of those same people insist on embracing other ‘tropes’ associated with other professions.

Thieves are meant to fight in a dirty manner and most of their abilities follow that theme. Though I worry that if we did get a more in-depth stealth system it would lead to adjustments elsewhere.

It’s just a shame that so many of the nay-sayers are the same people who aren’t likely to even play the class in question. Hopefully Arena Net take their thoughts with a hefty pinch of salt!

Knee-jerk reaction of assassin/rogue/thief class players in all games is to “hit the invis button” before entering a fight. Once they break out of this, they realize that the only things long duration invis is used for is either ganking other players or getting around mobs you’re not meant to get around.

“Stealthed characters would be obfuscated, not invisible, similar to how stealthed mobs and NPCs refract light but they can still be seen. Making it so that perceptive players can still pick out a Thief who is actively moving around or standing out in the open. This makes this more of a PvE centric ability, though it still has application as a scouting ability in WvW.”

This opens the potential for graphic mod/packet reading hacks to detect the player’s location clearly. A system that makes the player completely vanish from the enemy screen is preferred in my opinion.

Long stealth is not what Arenanet has in mind for thief though.

Although I play a Thief, I oppose the idea of a permanent stealth mechanic, despite it being very useful. Perma stealth really gives a class a huge upper hand in many situations while being difficult to balance in open fights.

That said, I would like to have the ability to Stealth for longer periods of time, say up to 10 seconds or so, to sneak into crucial positions etc.

That’s why I propose an ability that allows us Thieves to stealth, consuming Initiative at 1/point per second.

That would grant Thieves the ability to Stealth for up to 12 second….15 when specced accordingly, while leaving them very vulnerable once they leave Stealth. It would open a lot of tactical opportunities without being too offensive in nature.

PS: Being hit in that Stealth mode would consume 1 Initiative per hit, so that a Thief couldn’t abuse it too escape every fight.

I play thief and knowing how well they benefit from stealth, i wouldn’t say FULL stealth would be unfair. However with that in mind, I would like a general increase in the stealth time. Nothing too big where you are a ghost forever but like instead of 3 seconds make it like 6. We are supposed to keep ppl on their toes and be masters of escaping but 3 seconds simply doesn’t cut it. Not to mention in a 1v1 situation, if someone sees the other guy go stealth they can easily run back a little bit and if the thief is too far, they simple just get visible and no progress was made. I think overall stealth should be doubled for all skills except shadow refugee. I dont know if its intentional(prolly is) but if you leave the cirlce you become unstealthed kinda making you a sitting duck for AoE builds. To fix this you could make it you retain stealth from shadow refugee if you stay in it for the time its healing you.

Perma-stealth is almost impossible to balance. It’s a huge advantage to be able to pick your fights. To balance it, they would have to make the stealther slightly less powerful compared to some classes/builds.
When that happens, some stealthers will complain, because they think they should be able to kill anything as long as they get the jump on them from stealth(being assassins and all that). Make classes with perma-stealth equal to every other class will make every other class complain, because the stealther can choose their fight.

We would also get stealth gank groups camping hot-spots, waiting for solo targets to run by for a free kill. I remember that too well from DAoC. :p That ruins the fun for a lot of other players. It’s no fun to run around with a couple of friends and suddenly 6-8 stealthers pop out from nowhere. Without perma-stealth, you can at least see them from a distance and have a chance to escape.

I’d like a skill that:

• Appears at the other side of the initiative bar, and is activated with F2.
• Once active, its effect has a base duration of 4days.
• The effect is not the same as stealth, and won’t change the 1st skill. Instead, weapon skills are disabled while this effect is active.
• It’s a sequence skill with two possible sequences:
  • If there’s no enemies within 1200 range, while active the skill is replaced by a second skill that ends the stealth effect without recharging the skill. It’s like stowing a kit, you can put it back on right away.
  • If there’s enemies within 1200 range, the second skill that replaces it while active will change into one that gives you a 3 second stealth and a 30 second recharge to the main skill.
• While moving:
  • Decreases initiative if you move while enemies are within range, more initiative the shorter the distance to the nearest hostile enemy (yellow enemies won’t count). Walking right behind a hostile enemy (even under swiftness) will leave you just one or two seconds before it ends, but you can last about 10 seconds, walking around 1200 units of a hostile enemy.
  • Speed boosts such as swiftness make initiative decrease faster while under this effect.
  • Dodging does not end it nor reduce initiative, but you’ll be partially visible, as the dodging animation is the same as while not stealthed, with the blurry visual and all.
• While not moving:
  • Initiative goes back up as long as there’s no enemies too close, but you’ll lose initiative if there’s enemies within 600 range or less, and again, more initiative the closer they get.
• It ends if you attack, take environmental damage (like falling or lava) or lose all initiative, and has a very long recharge of 90 seconds or more of it ends that way.
• If you take damage, you become partially visible for 1 second, and the visuals of any condition will be visible even if you are not. If, for instance, a stray Static Shot hits you, the purple confusion effect will be visible on you, even if you are still stealthed. Effects that change your color like poison and chilled will make your even ore visible, but still translucent, like when allies see you stealthed.

That way it’ll be a skill I’d love to have, for both careful tactical infiltrations and to stay stealthed in cities for roleplaying and whatnot, but not a skill that lets you happily walk around enemies without risk.

And well, we all want to see all those engineers looking for thieves with their flamethrowers, don’t we? XDDD

I agree 100%.
/signed

A lot of great ideas, including just increasing the current stealth duration to making modifications for a long-duration stealth with respect to enemy proximity. I really like the suggestion that if you get too close to an enemy (NPC or Player) your stealth will be harder to maintain and break. This would give players in WvW a chance to potentially uncover the hiding location of a Thief who is scouting or to spot a group of thieves waiting to ambush them as they closed in on a Thief’s position.

I think combos should give a longer duration of stealth. When professions combine two skills to create a stealth effect it feels useless. Thieves benefit from stealth, as it changes their 1 skill, so if they are using is a simple skill to do it, then it should be a very short stealth to setup a backstab or whatever.

But if anyone uses multiple skills together to create a combo stealth then it should be a more useful one. Since 3 second stealth means nothing to any profession that doesn’t get stealth attack modifiers.

As playing a thief in PvP i say no.
In WvW this means overpowered ambushes on the reenforcements to the frontlines.
I’m sure if this was added you would have 10-20 thieves suddenly poping out of stealth near your waypoint and killing everything, just to cloak and do it again.

It would unbalance things, make things not fun, and get a lot of rage and flame wars going that Anet doesn’t need.

Ex

Many of the objections I am seeing are directly related to PvP. Would it work better as a PvE-only ability? If you went with my idea of having it be dynamically tied to movement and terrain restrictions then a solution of designating all PvP areas as invalid terrain immediately becomes available. If the player attempts to use it then it would simply report failure as normal when a player wouldn’t be in an appropriate situation to use the stealth. This completely prevents anyone being ganked because of the ability. I think many thieves, especially role-players, would be happy to have it even if it meant only using it in PvE.

I would like to point out that if it were going to be implemented I think it should be given to more than just the Thief. Rangers and Engineers are also logical choices to get this. Rangers should be capable of some kind of camouflage action and Engineers should get some kind of elixir that could do it. You would probably also need to look at the Mesmer’s ability to generate some long-duration invisibility. I’d say all of these would have the same requirements: PvE-only, non-combat only, terrain restrictions, damage cancels, and probably need to make it an elite skill (skillpoint cost of 30).

I make it short:
Stealth should be (and stay) a tactical tool, so no longer stealth.

no way…invites griefers gankers. look at WoW rogues

I think current stealth skills should have at least 1-2 seconds added to them (talking from a mesmer perspective) 3-4 seconds is not enough to achieve anything. The only time I really hate stealth is when it is used to run away from a fight they someone entered and realized that they couldn’t handle it. Other times I can generally still hit them without seeing them.

As people have pointed out, and I agree with, a Thief’s stealth skill does not last nearly long enough. Even if there is no chance of getting a long-duration stealth option added to the Thief (or other viable classes) repertoire, most of a Thief’s stealth skills need to be lengthened. A duration of 1-3 seconds is not enough.

Another possible option, and I can see this more as an Elite skill than a professional skill, would be a Flee or Withdraw skill that gives you swiftness and makes you invisible for somewhere on the order of 1 second per point of initiative you have. This would give the Thief slightly better survivability, at least.

Lord please no. You Rogues got completely spoiled in WOW lol. Insane damage, permanent stealth, cloak of shadows to completely negate magic and then vanish to completey reset a fight and back to perma stealth again. Give me a break. Nearly all of these class roles were established in traditional fantasy and D&D and the whole idea of stealth is that you’re using the shadows and sneaking around etc. The whole perma stealth thing is so OP and unrealistic it’s not even funny. You’re standing right in front of my character in daylight with no shadows or anything around you and I have to stand there because I can’t see you and wait (indefinitely) for you to decide you want to take action. Sorry if a class gets perma stealth again then all the other classes should get perma flight or something to compensate.

The thief in this game is what I imagine a thief should be with the exception of a few OP abilities. Man I hope you guys don’t get your way perma stealth is probably the worst part of any game where it’s not available to every class and acts a crutch to horrible players.

ZhangoSqu.5219:

Another possible option, and I can see this more as an Elite skill than a professional skill, would be a Flee or Withdraw skill that gives you swiftness and makes you invisible for somewhere on the order of 1 second per point of initiative you have. This would give the Thief slightly better survivability, at least.

Yeah because that wouldn’t be broken in PvP or anything

Ranger used to have a permanent stealth that was only active if he didn’t move. I was disappointed it never made it past alpha.

Having played a Thief, I believe their stealth is in a good position. Now, there have been times where I wished the stealth lasted a second longer, but it hasn’t hurt me. Permanent/long duration stealth is really a slippery slope, and it ends up imbalancing far more than it “fixes”, even if it makes a subset of players much happier.

So, frankly, I’m glad ANet is adverse to this.

Actually anyone who isnt a theif will disagree with infinite stealth

I am so happy this isnt possible on any character and I hope it stays the same

Proeliator.8740:

You’re standing right in front of my character in daylight with no shadows or anything around you and I have to stand there because I can’t see you and wait (indefinitely) for you to decide you want to take action.

That was partly why the suggestion was changed to obfuscation instead of true invisibility, as well as counters put in place to make it based off of your endurance (or initiative as others have suggested). So that if you were near a hostile target, moving, or in some otherwise situation you would not be able to keep a long duration stealth active indefinitely.

That being said, you and the others are right—there are balancing issues, but I don’t think they are insurmountable to resolve. Maybe that’s just unfounded optimism though.

You’ve all more or less convinced me away from permanent stealth, but a longer duration stealth—with enough restrictions—I think is still feasible.

Proeliator.8740:

ZhangoSqu.5219:

Another possible option, and I can see this more as an Elite skill than a professional skill, would be a Flee or Withdraw skill that gives you swiftness and makes you invisible for somewhere on the order of 1 second per point of initiative you have. This would give the Thief slightly better survivability, at least.

Yeah because that wouldn’t be broken in PvP or anything

True, I’m not thinking about the Flee or Withdraw skill from a PvP stand point. You make a good point; though like they do with certain skills being unavailable underwater, they could do the same with this in PvP. It would mostly be effective for PvE and possibly WvW.

Add 1-3 seconds longer on each stealth or to make use of initiatie, for every point of initiative you gain 1 second longer stealth. Pve this is entirely fair since most just spam skills to kill, therefore adding this new bonus makes you more cautious of your resource. In pvp, reduce this bonus to half a second per intiative or even less. As for other stealth professions idk how they can be buffed but, ABSOLUTLY NO TO PERMANENT STEALTH. We are masters of “escape” not some ghost on the field you gata be worried about. Stealth needs a small tweak is all and it should cancel out channeling spells.

stealth is a counter for noobs and require too much skill for them, gw2 is a game for casuals so saddly it isnt possible

Should the thief ever get perma-stealth, I hope the mesmer better get it too.