Guild Wars 2

I mean, I am reading a lot of discussion about removing AoE cap and fixing downed state. Some people agree that it could be usefull and others agree that it is a bad idea.
Why just not giving some penalties to zergs when they greatly outnumber their opponents in a fight?
Something like:
-All armor broken just with 1 Death
-Possibility to ress only out of combat
and so on..

this could discourage a bit the zerg mentality. People care much about their gold and if they have to repair their armor every time they die, maybe they will tend to not zerg anymore.

Terrible ideas honestly penalizing zergs is bad I’m not against buffing small man but I don’t believe organized groups 40+ should be punished for playing like that. No one should be punished for playing a viable meta

well I don’t think adding just a gold penalty is so bad, here people are asking even worst things..
Also I think this penalty should only be limited to the combat area, I mean if you are greatly outnumbering your opponents of something like 50 vs 20 in a delimited area, you should be penalized for dieing, while at the moment the Death penalties are the same and I find it to be not balanced.
the gold penalty is only a simple way to discourage this zerg mentality.
No one here is asking to give to the outmanned side more pvp buffs that will destroy the balance of course

The issue with things like that is you create a cheap fix which feels every bit as cheap as it is. You know that feeling in a game when you’ve found this cool looking place, started to explore, and run face first into an invisible wall? It’s like that.

snowaugar.1823:

Terrible ideas honestly penalizing zergs is bad I’m not against buffing small man but I don’t believe organized groups 40+ should be punished for playing like that. No one should be punished for playing a viable meta

Organized groups of 40 are not groups but zergs mate.

30 is the cap to who can join a commander and quite frankly ppl in all tiers run much greater numbers and this needs to be curbed. Ideal numbers for a group should be 10-15.

I would say 5 is the number to balance for but let’s face it that number is too small for WvW.

Jinks.2057:

snowaugar.1823:

Terrible ideas honestly penalizing zergs is bad I’m not against buffing small man but I don’t believe organized groups 40+ should be punished for playing like that. No one should be punished for playing a viable meta

Organized groups of 40 are not groups but zergs mate.

30 is the cap to who can join a commander and quite frankly ppl in all tiers run much greater numbers and this needs to be curbed. Ideal numbers for a group should be 10-15.

I would say 5 is the number to balance for but let’s face it that number is too small for WvW.

No one uses squad atm… so 40 organized like my guild pulls ain’t hard all in a voip channel all knowing their role isn’t hard and shouldn’t be punished

Played in a WvW guild, pretty dedicated to WvW aswell. Could easily get around 20+ people running in a zerg, all coordinated and organized via TS. At times even 30+, such as during weekends or reset night.
Naturally such a force would attract random pugs aswell to tag along, so dipping over 30, or even 40 players in the zerg wasnt uncommon at all. At the core, driven by a hardcore WvW guild and its commander.

Guilds that are working together and coordinating their large team play, its the only thing a guild can do as a whole in GW2.
Besides the rather short, and tedious, guild missions that are only worthwhile of doing once a week.
And you wish to essentially destroy that all because you dont like playing that way. Shame on you…

The best way to deal with zerging is to somehow make tactics useful. When a small force beats a way larger force in reality, its cause of better thinking, not Gods in the heavens rusting the larger forces armor.

+1 saelune – the out-manned buff is fine as it is, we don’t really need a debuff for zerging, however we do need a few more tactical elements in every class to make zerg busting viable.

For example the following classes can use the following skills to really help / break zergs up:

Ele – tornado, denial AoE
Mesmer – temporal curtain, feedback, null field
Ranger – traps
Necro – wells, plauge form
Guardian – line of warding, ring of warding, sancturary
Thief – caltrops, daggerstorm
Engineer – Elixer X (50% chance)
Warrior – combustive shot

Saelune.5316:

The best way to deal with zerging is to somehow make tactics useful. When a small force beats a way larger force in reality, its cause of better thinking, not Gods in the heavens rusting the larger forces armor.

well I agree with you, but please.. show me where I have asked in my thread to change things so that 40+ men should lose against 10 men?
I have never asked for something like that, I am just asking to put some gold penalty if you still die when having such a big disparity in numbers in your favour.
with the current downed state and with your mates at your side, it shouldn’t be hard to prevent a stomp.
But it seems that many people here like to easy win, that’s why WvW in the current state is only a number game, cos people like to run in zerg (sure organized zergs but still zergs) and they feel safe and don’t want to be penalized for that, instead running in small groups should be penalized of course cos it is against the current meta right?
well enjoy your number game!!!

snowaugar.1823:

Jinks.2057:

snowaugar.1823:

Terrible ideas honestly penalizing zergs is bad I’m not against buffing small man but I don’t believe organized groups 40+ should be punished for playing like that. No one should be punished for playing a viable meta

Organized groups of 40 are not groups but zergs mate.

30 is the cap to who can join a commander and quite frankly ppl in all tiers run much greater numbers and this needs to be curbed. Ideal numbers for a group should be 10-15.

I would say 5 is the number to balance for but let’s face it that number is too small for WvW.

No one uses squad atm… so 40 organized like my guild pulls ain’t hard all in a voip channel all knowing their role isn’t hard and shouldn’t be punished

It should be punished because it makes the playing experience a bad one for your enemies. People shouldn’t be punished for playing to the meta but the meta should be changed

If people want to zerg, they should be able to do so. Penalties most of the time are a bad way to make people do what you want. The correct way would be to encourage people playing differently by rewarding small group play. Devon already said they’re working on this:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/devon-carver-on-the-future-of-world-vs-world/

Caid.4932:

snowaugar.1823:

Jinks.2057:

snowaugar.1823:

Terrible ideas honestly penalizing zergs is bad I’m not against buffing small man but I don’t believe organized groups 40+ should be punished for playing like that. No one should be punished for playing a viable meta

Organized groups of 40 are not groups but zergs mate.

30 is the cap to who can join a commander and quite frankly ppl in all tiers run much greater numbers and this needs to be curbed. Ideal numbers for a group should be 10-15.

I would say 5 is the number to balance for but let’s face it that number is too small for WvW.

No one uses squad atm… so 40 organized like my guild pulls ain’t hard all in a voip channel all knowing their role isn’t hard and shouldn’t be punished

It should be punished because it makes the playing experience a bad one for your enemies. People shouldn’t be punished for playing to the meta but the meta should be changed

There are multiple metas atm all of em viable based on situation choose yours none should be punished

More player in blob more they take damage. 60 players blob would take 60% more damage and so on.

Really, the only viable way I can see of punishing larger groups is to make it harder to revive defeated people. That’s what keeps their momentum going and makes it impossible to wear them down. It becomes an all or nothing type of game, which is more fun in PvP than in WvW.

Any type of penalty to players just because they have x number in a area is a bad idea.

If you want to encourage small man teams, that is fine, but it should be done without any penalty to players just because they have x number in a certain area.

I like big fights. I don’t mind zergs. Just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean a penalty should be applied to “fix” some perceived problem.

Yep…. working as intended. There are ways to mess with the zerg. In all honesty… More people getting in Teamspeak or what have you. Would benefit you more than not only hurting “your” enemy’s zerg…. but your idea hurts those that are on your side…. So you dont like being in a large group….others do.

Zergs are good. Dont do anything to nerf them.

VoxShatterfall.5470:

+1 saelune – the out-manned buff is fine as it is, we don’t really need a debuff for zerging, however we do need a few more tactical elements in every class to make zerg busting viable.

For example the following classes can use the following skills to really help / break zergs up:

Ele – tornado, denial AoE
Mesmer – temporal curtain, feedback, null field
Ranger – traps
Necro – wells, plauge form
Guardian – line of warding, ring of warding, sancturary
Thief – caltrops, daggerstorm
Engineer – Elixer X (50% chance)
Warrior – combustive shot

Only problem with this is that these skills hit 5 people. And if you are outnumbered 5-1.. Well.. Yeah you’re going to get facerolled either way.

The cap on AoE’s really prevents small groups from even damaging large groups, since they can just spread the damage out evenly and not have the slightest problem with it.

Malediktus.9250:

Zergs are good. Dont do anything to nerf them.

ok I would like to know where and when I have asked for nerfing zergs.
So read again people, but read carefully cos it seems many people here cannot understand the meaning of this topic.
Arena net already said that they are looking for some ways to give small groups a reason to exist over zergs in wvw. So A-Net admits that there is a problem with zergs in the current meta of WvW.
I don’t want to discuss here if do you like to zerg or not, or if zergs are good, funny, enjoyable or boring..
Do you want to run with your “organized” 40 men zerg? of course you can, in the same way you do now.
Now there will be 2 cases:
1- you will face another 40 men “organized” zerg = there are no changes compared to now

2- you will face a 20 men “less organized” zerg = you still have more chances to faceroll your enemies but IF and only IF you die and get stomped (and let’s face it, with the current downed state it’s easier to rally than to get stomped when you greatly outnumber you opponents), well only in that case I would like to see my proposal applied, I would like to see a gold penalty.

And I don’t think a gold penalty is something realy bad, I’m nnot asking for giving to the outmanned side a “God Mode” buff or something crazy like that, just a small penalty when they die.

But if you people just prefer to totally faceroll you enemies when they are 1\4 of your number, if you prefer to mindless rush in and survive just for AoE cap and downed state and if you are able to die even with all those advantages, you do not accept any penalty and just wait for someone else to ress you in the middle of the fight.. well if you enjoy this kind of playstyle, I don’t see any reason why A-Net should make changes to WvW in the near future cos it is perfect like it is now.
I am done, have fun

Kolly.9872:

ok I would like to know where and when I have asked for nerfing zergs.

You asked to penalize them, which pretty much boils down to the same result.

Arena net already said that they are looking for some ways to give small groups a reason to exist over zergs in wvw.

Right.

So A-Net admits that there is a problem with zergs in the current meta of WvW.

They said zerging is an important part of WvW, but it shouldn’t be the best strategy. And they explicitly excluded large coordinated groups from this, so they won’t simply punish based on the number of people in one place. A zerg is not just a large group, but rather a large group of mindless players running together. Simply punishing large groups would also be inherently stupid, what if several separate groups just come together in one place for whatever reason.