Add progression to WvWvW.
What is it with people who cannot do things simply for fun? I play WvW because it’s FUN, not because I get badges or levels or gear or any of that stuff. Sure, they’re nice, but the combat and tactics is what it’s all about for me. In the right situation, the game can be awesome entertainment and that, I thought, was the whole point in playing games.
Personally, I wish levels and progression were removed entirely, so that players didn’t get fixated on them, so they could just get on with enjoying the content. The problem with progression of any kind, is that at some point you will get to the end. And if you have conditioned yourself that that is all you must do (because you have done it for so long), you get disappointed when it ends and scream that there is no end game content. But you couldn’t be further from the truth. This game is packed with end game stuff, you just don’t want to do it because there is no progression.
Snap out of it man and enjoy the game.
What is it with people who cannot do things simply for fun? I play WvW because it’s FUN, not because I get badges or levels or gear or any of that stuff. Sure, they’re nice, but the combat and tactics is what it’s all about for me. In the right situation, the game can be awesome entertainment and that, I thought, was the whole point in playing games.
Personally, I wish levels and progression were removed entirely, so that players didn’t get fixated on them, so they could just get on with enjoying the content. The problem with progression of any kind, is that at some point you will get to the end. And if you have conditioned yourself that that is all you must do (because you have done it for so long), you get disappointed when it ends and scream that there is no end game content. But you couldn’t be further from the truth. This game is packed with end game stuff, you just don’t want to do it because there is no progression.
Snap out of it man and enjoy the game.
What fun are you talking about? the endless zergs for no reason? the mindless running around the whole map? the not getting rewarded for winning 1st place? the no advancement for your character?
What fun are you talking about? the endless zergs for no reason?
Do stuff that doesn’t involve zergs (supply camps, NPC camps, veterans, dolyaks, small teams capping towers, etc.)
the mindless running around the whole map?
Stop running round mindlessly. Give yourself a reason to be there or go somewhere else (dynamic events, dungeons, helping players in personal stories).
the not getting rewarded for winning 1st place?
Why do you insist on only playing if you get a reward? If the gameplay itself is not reward enough, then this game may not be for you.
the no advancement for your character?
Again, what difference does this make on how much you enjoy the game? What happens when you reach max level? Or max achievements? Or max gear? The progression on these things will ALWAYS end at some point, so stop chasing this endless carrot and just enjoy the content for the challenge or the fun of the combat or to help other players.
I could not agree less with the OP, grind is what made WoW the boring thing (not a game if it’s boring) it is now, so NO GRIND FOR GW2. And since progression IS grind, I have to say no to it.
I could not agree less with the OP, grind is what made WoW the boring thing (not a game if it’s boring) it is now, so NO GRIND FOR GW2. And since progression IS grind, I have to say no to it.
You do realize that GW2 is a RPG right? it is supposed to have progression, people keep calling it a grind for some reason but it’s not, if you’re gonna call gearing up a grind then so are dungeons which are a big part of GW2, I guess you’d like a game where as soon as you create a character you hit level 80 and get a full set of exotics right away, don’t you? And the raid grinding is what made wow a fun and successful game
What fun are you talking about? the endless zergs for no reason?
Do stuff that doesn’t involve zergs (supply camps, NPC camps, veterans, dolyaks, small teams capping towers, etc.)
the mindless running around the whole map?
Stop running round mindlessly. Give yourself a reason to be there or go somewhere else (dynamic events, dungeons, helping players in personal stories).
the not getting rewarded for winning 1st place?
Why do you insist on only playing if you get a reward? If the gameplay itself is not reward enough, then this game may not be for you.
the no advancement for your character?
Again, what difference does this make on how much you enjoy the game? What happens when you reach max level? Or max achievements? Or max gear? The progression on these things will ALWAYS end at some point, so stop chasing this endless carrot and just enjoy the content for the challenge or the fun of the combat or to help other players.
I agree with the first point, but unfortunately escorting dolyaks or gathering supply is not what i consider a fun experience. About your second point, what a nice surprise, i didn’t know they added personal story and dungeons in WvW. Your third point, WvW is supposed to be end-game content which means you’ll be doing it for a long long time, and doing it without getting any rewards is no fun. fourth point, I know that progression always ends, but it ended way too soon in gw2.
Guild Wars 2 is explicitly designed to AVOID using “progression” as a speed bump. It is meant to be fun for its own sake, and avoid problems present in other games, my least favorite being the problem that you can’t just jump in and play with your friends; you first have to do the “progression”. In GW2, you can be 80 and acceptably geared within days (if not a day) if you’ve got access to some gold, which you do if you’ve got friends to catch up with and do whatever it is you guys like doing together.
In other words, the lack of “progression” is not a bug; it’s a feature. If leveling up and grabbing loot are really the only things fun for you, there are other games for that. In GW2, the only “grind” available is getting cool skins, particularly legendaries… but those don’t make your numbers go up, they just make your character look cool. GW2 is about the gameplay, not watching numbers go up.
Guild Wars 2 is explicitly designed to AVOID using “progression” as a speed bump. It is meant to be fun for its own sake, and avoid problems present in other games, my least favorite being the problem that you can’t just jump in and play with your friends; you first have to do the “progression”. In GW2, you can be 80 and acceptably geared within days (if not a day) if you’ve got access to some gold, which you do if you’ve got friends to catch up with and do whatever it is you guys like doing together.
In other words, the lack of “progression” is not a bug; it’s a feature. If leveling up and grabbing loot are really the only things fun for you, there are other games for that. In GW2, the only “grind” available is getting cool skins, particularly legendaries… but those don’t make your numbers go up, they just make your character look cool. GW2 is about the gameplay, not watching numbers go up.
I agree with the feature of taking away vertical progression, but what I’m looking for is some risk vs reward in WvW only not character progression. I know GW2 isn’t going to add risk because it might make some casual players upset. But why not add some reward? Other than the menial 2% gains in PVE stats toward you server.
As it stands now continuiously taking and defending forts has no reward or meaning. Yes its FUN, but shallow fun. Start adding a small reward/incentive and you could gain a whole new population of pvpers, myself included.
Even something as small as mailing some gold to players (just like some pve events do), with a message congratulating them and showing what fortress they took or defended, how many heals/dmg they did during the particular fight, kills and deaths etc. in the siege zone period.
Even this small mechanic added would at least add some semblence of meaning to the capturing and holding of keeps. You’d feel like you character was a mercenary for hire being paid for their time conquering or defending a fort.
(edited by Skorner.3701)
Guild Wars 2 is explicitly designed to AVOID using “progression” as a speed bump. It is meant to be fun for its own sake, and avoid problems present in other games, my least favorite being the problem that you can’t just jump in and play with your friends; you first have to do the “progression”. In GW2, you can be 80 and acceptably geared within days (if not a day) if you’ve got access to some gold, which you do if you’ve got friends to catch up with and do whatever it is you guys like doing together.
In other words, the lack of “progression” is not a bug; it’s a feature. If leveling up and grabbing loot are really the only things fun for you, there are other games for that. In GW2, the only “grind” available is getting cool skins, particularly legendaries… but those don’t make your numbers go up, they just make your character look cool. GW2 is about the gameplay, not watching numbers go up.
Unrewarded gameplay is meaningless in a RPG, doing the same thing over and over and over no matter how fun it is without getting something out of it becomes boring sooner or later like WvWvW.the whole point of an RPG is the feeling of moving forward with your character. After achieving your desired look in GW2 which takes a week at max, the game becomes boring and there’s nothing to do anymore.
Guild Wars 2 is explicitly designed to AVOID using “progression” as a speed bump. It is meant to be fun for its own sake, and avoid problems present in other games, my least favorite being the problem that you can’t just jump in and play with your friends; you first have to do the “progression”. In GW2, you can be 80 and acceptably geared within days (if not a day) if you’ve got access to some gold, which you do if you’ve got friends to catch up with and do whatever it is you guys like doing together.
In other words, the lack of “progression” is not a bug; it’s a feature. If leveling up and grabbing loot are really the only things fun for you, there are other games for that. In GW2, the only “grind” available is getting cool skins, particularly legendaries… but those don’t make your numbers go up, they just make your character look cool. GW2 is about the gameplay, not watching numbers go up.
Unrewarded gameplay is meaningless in a RPG, doing the same thing over and over and over no matter how fun it is without getting something out of it becomes boring sooner or later like WvWvW.the whole point of an RPG is the feeling of moving forward with your character. After achieving your desired look in GW2 which takes a week at max, the game becomes boring and there’s nothing to do anymore.
I have to disagree with you.
I think the point of an RPG lies in the world. The characters in it, their backstory, their issues. The world, with its religions, technology and magic. The story, that takes place in that world and with those characters, is what makes an RPG.
After all, RPG does stand for Role Playing Game.
Take any actually good single player videogame RPG. Most people will play it for the story: once they complete it, they move on. It’s generally considered “hardcore” for you to grind the best gear, maximized stats and to go kill every single optional boss. And majority of complaints about these RPGs lies in the characters and the story, not the progression. I have never seen anyone complain that it takes dozens of hours to get maxed stats in Final Fantasy VII, but I have seen people complain about how Squall was a boring main character in Final Fantasy VIII. Or I’ve seen people complain that Roxas did not get enough screentime in Kingdom Hearts II, but I have not seen people complain that it takes, again, dozens of hours to farm Star Charms.
Heck, not having played GW1 kinda scares me: I don’t know any of that ancient history of the world. I got asked about the origin of my character in a Personal Story bit and I had the options of Kryta, Cantha, Ascalon and Elona, and I had to look up to realize that Cantha and Elona were actual regions of the world not present in GW2.
(edited by Olba.5376)
Guild Wars 2 is explicitly designed to AVOID using “progression” as a speed bump. It is meant to be fun for its own sake, and avoid problems present in other games, my least favorite being the problem that you can’t just jump in and play with your friends; you first have to do the “progression”. In GW2, you can be 80 and acceptably geared within days (if not a day) if you’ve got access to some gold, which you do if you’ve got friends to catch up with and do whatever it is you guys like doing together.
In other words, the lack of “progression” is not a bug; it’s a feature. If leveling up and grabbing loot are really the only things fun for you, there are other games for that. In GW2, the only “grind” available is getting cool skins, particularly legendaries… but those don’t make your numbers go up, they just make your character look cool. GW2 is about the gameplay, not watching numbers go up.
Unrewarded gameplay is meaningless in a RPG, doing the same thing over and over and over no matter how fun it is without getting something out of it becomes boring sooner or later like WvWvW.the whole point of an RPG is the feeling of moving forward with your character. After achieving your desired look in GW2 which takes a week at max, the game becomes boring and there’s nothing to do anymore.
I have to disagree with you.
I think the point of an RPG lies in the world. The characters in it, their backstory, their issues. The world, with its religions, technology and magic. The story, that takes place in that world and with those characters, is what makes an RPG.
After all, RPG does stand for Role Playing Game.
Take any actually good single player videogame RPG. Most people will play it for the story: once they complete it, they move on. It’s generally considered “hardcore” for you to grind the best gear, maximized stats and to go kill every single optional boss. And majority of complaints about these RPGs lies in the characters and the story, not the progression. I have never seen anyone complain that it takes dozens of hours to get maxed stats in Final Fantasy VII, but I have seen people complain about how Squall was a boring main character in Final Fantasy VIII. Or I’ve seen people complain that Roxas did not get enough screentime in Kingdom Hearts II, but I have not seen people complain that it takes, again, dozens of hours to farm Star Charms.
Heck, not having played GW1 kinda scares me: I don’t know any of that ancient history of the world. I got asked about the origin of my character in a Personal Story bit and I had the options of Kryta, Cantha, Ascalon and Elona, and I had to look up to realize that Cantha and Elona were actual regions of the world not present in GW2.
Those points don’t stand when the RPG is actually a MMO, you can’t focus on just the story in a MMO you need to give players something to compete and strive for, MMO shouldn’t be completed in 1-2 weeks like in GW2, it should take a lot more time than that. About the story you mentioned, GW2 doesn’t give us that much story in-game,(dungeons, dynamic events, etc) if you wan’t to learn something about the game you have to go google it, other than the personal story of each character which is only fun completing it once, we got no story left in-game.
Those points don’t stand when the RPG is actually a MMO, you can’t focus on just the story in a MMO you need to give players something to compete and strive for, MMO shouldn’t be completed in 1-2 weeks like in GW2, it should take a lot more time than that. About the story you mentioned, GW2 doesn’t give us that much story in-game,(dungeons, dynamic events, etc) if you wan’t to learn something about the game you have to go google it, other than the personal story of each character which is only fun completing it once, we got no story left in-game.
But that’s exactly the problem. There’s plenty of story in the game, if you bother talking to NPCs, listening to their idle chatter and sticking around in places.
And personally, I think that the first 20 levels of your Personal Story are worth completing multiple times, because that’s when the choices you made at the start are played out. Heck, you pretty much need to play through the Order part three times to see the stories behind the three orders. But once you get to the Pact, it’s all the same.
Honestly, I like GW2 because it tries to break out of the standard MMORPG model. Most MMORPGs keep on pushing new gear, new dungeons, what-have-yous to keep you playing constantly. I don’t think the progression itself is necessary in the game, at least if I take a look at why I leveled my characters. When I got the game, I pretty much played 10+ hours a day for a week and got to level 80. I didn’t get to 80 fast because I thought that’s when the good part starts, but because I knew that there were certain things which I could only really grasp once I had it all unlocked, such as customizing my character to best fit the kind of playstyle I like, a playstyle I would have found while leveling. When leveling my second character, my biggest motivation with hurrying the levels was catching up to my friend, who was already level 20 by the time I started.
Sadly, GW2 has really nice combat. That’s a sad thing, because it breeds the mentality that used to plague single player RPGs: people skip things. Everyone who’s played games since they were like 12 probably remembers times when their favorite game had a cutscene or dialogue and you didn’t even read any of it, as you just wanted to get out there and kill stuff. And that’s really bad. It’s bad because that dialogue is part of the game. A very important part: it’s what makes it an RPG, rather than an action adventure or an FPS.
And that’s what I’m getting at. WvW is separate from the storyline. Same with sPvP. It’s the place where you go to enjoy the combat system and all the things you can do with it. The developers of GW2 are clearly focused on bringing back the RPG aspect to MMORPGs. With that said, it’s really not a big surprise if they handwave WvW. After all, it’s there only as a cookie to cover a very specific subset of players.
You said that GW2 lacks “endgame content”, but did you ever wonder why that’s the case? GW2 lacks endgame content because it’s not a game about endgame content. GW2 is much, much more focused on the world and the story than any other MMORPG. And considering how the areas are spread, clearly they intended for you to play through the leveling process on multiple characters of different races to experience it all.
personally i know my end game is getting the best possible looking gear you have to find what makes you happy to play the game, and if thats progression you probably are playing the game, as GW is designed to be constant end game imo. find something or move along, don’t know what else i can say :/
Sadly, GW2 has really nice combat. That’s a sad thing, because it breeds the mentality that used to plague single player RPGs: people skip things. Everyone who’s played games since they were like 12 probably remembers times when their favorite game had a cutscene or dialogue and you didn’t even read any of it, as you just wanted to get out there and kill stuff. And that’s really bad. It’s bad because that dialogue is part of the game. A very important part: it’s what makes it an RPG, rather than an action adventure or an FPS.
I disagree here. It isn’t sad that the combat is fun; it’s awesome. Kingdom Hearts is a perfect example of a game I never finished and didn’t follow into the sequals because, while I enjoyed the story, I reached a point in the gameplay where I just plain quit because there were other games with stories just as good but more enjoyable gameplay. That, or a game with very good gameplay that allows the player to imagine the story, if he so desires (writing alternate history in Civilization, or something).
Guild Wars 2 is perfect for me. The combat is enjoyable (particularly on my Ele), and just challenging enough in PvE to be interesting without being frustrating. But the story is also fun, and the environment is fun. When playing story mode, I sit and enjoy the cutscenes. When map clearing, I stop, look around, talk to named NPCs (loads of interesting little tidbits there). It’s great. ArenaNet did an awesome job. But I wouldn’t even bother were the gameplay not fun.
You said that GW2 lacks “endgame content”, but did you ever wonder why that’s the case? GW2 lacks endgame content because it’s not a game about endgame content. GW2 is much, much more focused on the world and the story than any other MMORPG. And considering how the areas are spread, clearly they intended for you to play through the leveling process on multiple characters of different races to experience it all.
I agree here, and I like it this way. Having finished the story with my human elementalist (vigil), I’m now splitting my time between doing story mode with my new sylvari engineer, farming dungeons for my ele’s armor pieces (mixing pieces from CM, CoE, and one other; can’t remember), messing around on WvWvW (mostly playing solo hitting sentries, doylacks, keeping the Quaggans on our side, and throwing up random battle flags to keep the enemy confused).
That said, I do agree that WvWvW could use some improvement, but I’m not sure how to do it without messing up PvE, either by screwing with the gameplay or through neglect. Personally, I would love to play a game that was JUST massive world PvP, but instanced like with daily events which are orchestrated by the players using an interface similar to that found in Civilization type games. No backstory, just “here’s the world. Build up your own little corner, or destroy the other guy’s. It’s up to you. have fun!” In this respect, it would be like a fantasy Eve (kind of like Shadowbane, but with a more complex crafting system), but without even the backstory those two games have. The story would what the players make of the actual events that occur in the game.
Actually, my idea has considerably more than that (stuff for non-PvPers to chew on), but I’m not done with the design document. :p
But that wouldn’t be GW2, and I wouldn’t want ANet to try to turn GW2 into that game. I would, however, trust ANet with the development of such a game, since half the reason I started playing GW2 was to see how their dynamic events worked. I’m pleased with what I found, but I’m even more pleased with the entire game, overall.
Those points don’t stand when the RPG is actually a MMO, you can’t focus on just the story in a MMO you need to give players something to compete and strive for, MMO shouldn’t be completed in 1-2 weeks like in GW2, it should take a lot more time than that. About the story you mentioned, GW2 doesn’t give us that much story in-game,(dungeons, dynamic events, etc) if you wan’t to learn something about the game you have to go google it, other than the personal story of each character which is only fun completing it once, we got no story left in-game.
But that’s exactly the problem. There’s plenty of story in the game, if you bother talking to NPCs, listening to their idle chatter and sticking around in places.
And personally, I think that the first 20 levels of your Personal Story are worth completing multiple times, because that’s when the choices you made at the start are played out. Heck, you pretty much need to play through the Order part three times to see the stories behind the three orders. But once you get to the Pact, it’s all the same.
Honestly, I like GW2 because it tries to break out of the standard MMORPG model. Most MMORPGs keep on pushing new gear, new dungeons, what-have-yous to keep you playing constantly. I don’t think the progression itself is necessary in the game, at least if I take a look at why I leveled my characters. When I got the game, I pretty much played 10+ hours a day for a week and got to level 80. I didn’t get to 80 fast because I thought that’s when the good part starts, but because I knew that there were certain things which I could only really grasp once I had it all unlocked, such as customizing my character to best fit the kind of playstyle I like, a playstyle I would have found while leveling. When leveling my second character, my biggest motivation with hurrying the levels was catching up to my friend, who was already level 20 by the time I started.
Sadly, GW2 has really nice combat. That’s a sad thing, because it breeds the mentality that used to plague single player RPGs: people skip things. Everyone who’s played games since they were like 12 probably remembers times when their favorite game had a cutscene or dialogue and you didn’t even read any of it, as you just wanted to get out there and kill stuff. And that’s really bad. It’s bad because that dialogue is part of the game. A very important part: it’s what makes it an RPG, rather than an action adventure or an FPS.
And that’s what I’m getting at. WvW is separate from the storyline. Same with sPvP. It’s the place where you go to enjoy the combat system and all the things you can do with it. The developers of GW2 are clearly focused on bringing back the RPG aspect to MMORPGs. With that said, it’s really not a big surprise if they handwave WvW. After all, it’s there only as a cookie to cover a very specific subset of players.
You said that GW2 lacks “endgame content”, but did you ever wonder why that’s the case? GW2 lacks endgame content because it’s not a game about endgame content. GW2 is much, much more focused on the world and the story than any other MMORPG. And considering how the areas are spread, clearly they intended for you to play through the leveling process on multiple characters of different races to experience it all.
You shouldn’t assume something about me without any information about myself. You’re mistaken, i toke my sweet time leveling up my character and listening to all the stories the game provided which toke me around 2 weeks. but sadly, all that stuff is only fun once, you can’t have that much fun listening to the same story twice, and the decisions you make in your personal story don’t change the end that much, i tried them all already. what i’m complaining about here is the lack of end-game content which ends pretty fast as i stated above.
personally i know my end game is getting the best possible looking gear you have to find what makes you happy to play the game, and if thats progression you probably are playing the game, as GW is designed to be constant end game imo. find something or move along, don’t know what else i can say :/
as i said above, achieving your desired look doesn’t take more than 2 weeks. there should be more to an end-game experience than that.
Unless, of course, your desired look includes a legendary. Heh,
I could not agree less with the OP, grind is what made WoW the boring thing (not a game if it’s boring) it is now, so NO GRIND FOR GW2. And since progression IS grind, I have to say no to it.
You do realize that GW2 is a RPG right? it is supposed to have progression, people keep calling it a grind for some reason but it’s not, if you’re gonna call gearing up a grind then so are dungeons which are a big part of GW2, I guess you’d like a game where as soon as you create a character you hit level 80 and get a full set of exotics right away, don’t you? And the raid grinding is what made wow a fun and successful game
Exionn you’re playing the wrong game . Go back to WoW . There will be no further progression, especially in PvP . The gear grind is bad enough as it is and goes completely against the original philosophy of the developers. Guild Wars 1 had it right. It’s all you WoW kids that trying to ruin the second installment . If you want progression and raiding you’ll need to look elsewhere. The devs need to get back to their core competency and focus on balanced fun and engaging PvP with absolutely no progression; only titles and emotes.
(edited by Theplayboy.6417)
I could not agree less with the OP, grind is what made WoW the boring thing (not a game if it’s boring) it is now, so NO GRIND FOR GW2. And since progression IS grind, I have to say no to it.
You do realize that GW2 is a RPG right? it is supposed to have progression, people keep calling it a grind for some reason but it’s not, if you’re gonna call gearing up a grind then so are dungeons which are a big part of GW2, I guess you’d like a game where as soon as you create a character you hit level 80 and get a full set of exotics right away, don’t you? And the raid grinding is what made wow a fun and successful game
Exionn you’re playing the wrong game . Go back to WoW . There will be no further progression, especially in PvP . The gear grind is bad enough as it is and goes completely against the original philosophy of the developers. Guild Wars 1 had it right. It’s all you WoW kids that trying to ruin the second installment . If you want progression and raiding you’ll need to look elsewhere. The devs need to get back to their core competency and focus on balanced fun and engaging PvP with absolutely no progression; only titles and emotes.
The WvWvW PVP in guild wars 2 is POINTLESS, everything you do has no reward whats so ever, it’s only for “fun” and after playing WvWvW for a month and getting NOTHING out of it other than bragging rights it become just a repetative process for nothing, the only good kind of pvp in guild wars 2 is Spvp, it’s a lot more organized and you get something out of it. so you call me a wow “kid” because of what i said about it being a successful game which in fact it was and still is? you shouldn’t go around calling people from other game kids while they’re probably more mature than you’ll ever be.
I could not agree less with the OP, grind is what made WoW the boring thing (not a game if it’s boring) it is now, so NO GRIND FOR GW2. And since progression IS grind, I have to say no to it.
You do realize that GW2 is a RPG right? it is supposed to have progression, people keep calling it a grind for some reason but it’s not, if you’re gonna call gearing up a grind then so are dungeons which are a big part of GW2, I guess you’d like a game where as soon as you create a character you hit level 80 and get a full set of exotics right away, don’t you? And the raid grinding is what made wow a fun and successful game
Exionn you’re playing the wrong game . Go back to WoW . There will be no further progression, especially in PvP . The gear grind is bad enough as it is and goes completely against the original philosophy of the developers. Guild Wars 1 had it right. It’s all you WoW kids that trying to ruin the second installment . If you want progression and raiding you’ll need to look elsewhere. The devs need to get back to their core competency and focus on balanced fun and engaging PvP with absolutely no progression; only titles and emotes.
The WvWvW PVP in guild wars 2 is POINTLESS, everything you do has no reward whats so ever, it’s only for “fun” and after playing WvWvW for a month and getting NOTHING out of it other than bragging rights it become just a repetative process for nothing, the only good kind of pvp in guild wars 2 is Spvp, it’s a lot more organized and you get something out of it. so you call me a wow “kid” because of what i said about it being a successful game which in fact it was and still is? you shouldn’t go around calling people from other game kids while they’re probably more mature than you’ll ever be.