Guild Wars 2

Simple solution. Don’t give the same types of rewards if any the second time around. Its not too difficult to prevent these exploitations if this was kept in mind when applying new changes to the game.

Kal Spiro.9745:

The Eternal Grace.3157:

Azala Yar.7693:

Question is does it really annoy you or are you just bored with it

Does it really matter? If people are asking for a race change, they’ve obviously invested a lot of time and money into their character. Who cares whether it’s annoying them or if they’re bored of it…they want to keep the character but change the race. Not that big of a deal if gender and appearance can be switched that easily.

Just because someone wants something doesn’t mean they should have it, regardless of the amount of whatever they put into the current incarnation of it.

I completely agree that not everyone should get what they want. But it’s a part of the community playing their game (a large part from what I’ve seen..) and if ArenaNet wants to keep their players happy, they’ll listen to them.

Kaimick.5109:

So unless you can bring forth some major determining reason other than

• A lot of players want this
• I worked so hard and he is 80 ect ect.
• the players want it so we should get it.
  I don’t think your suggestion is going to carry any weight. Cause if CC Eva statement I posted doesn’t counter your argument which it will to 97% of the argumentative reasons then it will all be for not.

I think those are all very valid reasons. It’s a smart idea from a business standpoint for them. If the players don’t get what they want from playing the game, they aren’t going to keep playing it or recommend it to other people; Again, not to mention the fact that Arenanet would actually make a lot of money from gem purchases through this feature.

It’s like a restaurant. I don’t get what I ordered but I payed for it, or I am simply unsatisfied with the quality of the food, I won’t keep going there or recommend that restaurant to other people because the quality of the customer service just wasn’t there.

The Eternal Grace.3157:

Kal Spiro.9745:

The Eternal Grace.3157:

Azala Yar.7693:

Question is does it really annoy you or are you just bored with it

Does it really matter? If people are asking for a race change, they’ve obviously invested a lot of time and money into their character. Who cares whether it’s annoying them or if they’re bored of it…they want to keep the character but change the race. Not that big of a deal if gender and appearance can be switched that easily.

Just because someone wants something doesn’t mean they should have it, regardless of the amount of whatever they put into the current incarnation of it.

I completely agree that not everyone should get what they want. But it’s a part of the community playing their game (a large part from what I’ve seen..) and if ArenaNet wants to keep their players happy, they’ll listen to them.

Where are you getting a large part ? Please show me this large part, from what I and a guildy could tell there is roughly around 600 some odd people voicing their opinions about this. That is not a large part.

Secondly, I don’t think that a race change is going to make or break the game, seeing as they have yet to put it in he game in the last 7 months. Also seeing as the game started with just over 400k congruent player base(CPB) and now they are up to the high 800k congruent player base, which btw just surpassed World of Warcrafts Congruent player base which was at MoP launch 864k and now down to low 700k CPB.

Although ignoring the second part there I would like to see your tally on how many people ( have to be different users posting on this topic over the 83 topic threads out there I believe ). Then tell me the over all % of the people that voice their opinions to the CPB of the over all game. Also ( i think I said this to you before ) remember if the issue is bad enough or serious enough people will come on and post. The Dragon chest Lag/ guesting issues have proven that, just go through and look at how many post start with

Never came on the forums before so first time here, but here is the issue

This is a thread to allow race changes, not otherwise. A reply of conflicting interests would only cause you to be considered a trolling poster. Get flamed for trolling if you’d like. Its better you make a new thread to oppose this suggestion instead of trying to make an opposition to the supporters of this post.

Kaimick.5109:

Where are you getting a large part ?

Look at the several posts on these forums alone. Think about how many players there are and how many different forum and fansites there are. If I see race change posts daily on any of these forums sites, hear it from multiple guild members, see it in map chat in places like Lion’s Arch, and to include the people who would like this but don’t bother to go onto forums or fansites…I would say there is a large number of players who would like this.

These numbers are made up, but my guess it’s something like this
-15% want race change
-5% oppose race change
-80% are indifferent

If that isn’t a good enough “majority” for you, I don’t know what is, because a majority of players will always not care either way.

1) It completely ruins the Personal Story. If you reset your race, you reset your story, period. It’s not enough to just shrug it off with “I don’t care about the story” — the Personal Story is a big part of the game, and we don’t know how it will be carried through in the future. ArenaNet is not going to approve of any process which will erase a player’s progress and discourage them from reaching completion or continuing with future installments of the story. Also, ANet is not going to make game design decisions based around the assumption that their story is not worth playing through on different races.
Also, for those who do care about the story, they now have the ability to effectively see two story paths on one character, without having to level a new toon. ANet can’t be just putting these features out there, because there might be a few people who “don’t care about the story”. It effects everyone.

2) The fact is, you have already benefited from whatever chapters of the Personal Story you did complete, before the change. You were awarded with XP, gear, boosters, mystic keys, and other items that may have been used and cannot be given back in any quantifiable sense. It’s not fair to other players, that you got where you are today partly in thanks to those things, and yet now you have the opportunity to win them all a second time.

3) Racial/cultural armor would have to be removed, which of course you may have already equipped and benefited from at some point. And no, I don’t want to hear nonsense like “But I never bought cultural armor!” If they allow race changes, they have to do it for everyone — not just for you. There are players who did get cultural armor, and that needs to be addressed. There’s simply no way to determine how much of an effect that had on a player’s gameplay.

4) The same issue needs to be addressed for racial skills. You played through the entire game and leveled to 80 using a specific selection of racial skills, and now you expect to suddenly have an 80 with a new set of skills. How much of a difference that makes is not yours to decide — but what’s clear is that it makes for an unfair exchange in the end.

5) It trivializes playing the actual game. It sends the message that, if you want to have a different character, the game is not worth leveling through a second time. Part of the reason they put the work into creating so many diverse zones, and why there is account-bound anything, is to encourage people to play alts and experience things a different way.
When it comes down to it, there are some things in this game that are not for sale. If you want to max-level Charr, then make one and play through some new zones. Leveling a new character is not the worst thing in the world, and though it will take some time, it can be done. If you can’t bring yourself enjoy that, then frankly, you don’t enjoy the game and I don’t know why you’re here.

6) Allowing a race change is not the same as allowing a hair or face change — neither in degree, or in kind. Face and hair changes are cosmetic-only, whereas a race change has very real, concrete effects on gameplay and fairness.

The Eternal Grace.3157:

Kaimick.5109:

Where are you getting a large part ?

Look at the several posts on these forums alone. Think about how many players there are and how many different forum and fansites there are. If I see race change posts daily on any of these forums sites, hear it from multiple guild members, see it in map chat in places like Lion’s Arch, and to include the people who would like this but don’t bother to go onto forums or fansites…I would say there is a large number of players who would like this.

These numbers are made up, but my guess it’s something like this
-15% want race change
-5% oppose race change
-80% are indifferent

If that isn’t a good enough “majority” for you, I don’t know what is, because a majority of players will always not care either way.

My guildy and I looked through GuildGuru and this site. Those are the only two sites that developers openly support and post on. Also you can’t count everyone on Guru and this site and every other fan based site out there. How many people posting on those sites are people who posted here? How do you tell who is who? To properly do that you can only take the numbers from the main site, this one. There is no way to create a controlled environment for a proper deception of how many want it, when you can’t even tell if person C is Person B and also Person D on three different sites

People complaining in map chat does not give basis to a change, again if they were so serious about their complaints in Map they would be here voicing their opinions

Saying your % bases are 100% correct ( I know you were just throwing numbers out there and that they are fabercated for example ) then

15% for
5% against
80% indifferent
—————
100% total

15% does not make the majority, just because someone doesn’t care doesn’t mean you group them into the % that benefits you. The only way I feel Arena Net will be forced into making race changes something available in the game is if, and only if the % numbers looked like this

60% for
10% against
30% in different
————
100% total

that 60% is the majority

Fyrebrand.4859:

1) It completely ruins the Personal Story. If you reset your race, you reset your story, period. It’s not enough to just shrug it off with “I don’t care about the story” — the Personal Story is a big part of the game, and we don’t know how it will be carried through in the future. ArenaNet is not going to approve of any process which will erase a player’s progress and discourage them from reaching completion or continuing with future installments of the story. Also, ANet is not going to make game design decisions based around the assumption that their story is not worth playing through on different races.
Also, for those who do care about the story, they now have the ability to effectively see two story paths on one character, without having to level a new toon. ANet can’t be just putting these features out there, because there might be a few people who “don’t care about the story”. It effects everyone.

2) The fact is, you have already benefited from whatever chapters of the Personal Story you did complete, before the change. You were awarded with XP, gear, boosters, mystic keys, and other items that may have been used and cannot be given back in any quantifiable sense. It’s not fair to other players, that you got where you are today partly in thanks to those things, and yet now you have the opportunity to win them all a second time.

3) Racial/cultural armor would have to be removed, which of course you may have already equipped and benefited from at some point. And no, I don’t want to hear nonsense like “But I never bought cultural armor!” If they allow race changes, they have to do it for everyone — not just for you. There are players who did get cultural armor, and that needs to be addressed. There’s simply no way to determine how much of an effect that had on a player’s gameplay.

4) The same issue needs to be addressed for racial skills. You played through the entire game and leveled to 80 using a specific selection of racial skills, and now you expect to suddenly have an 80 with a new set of skills. How much of a difference that makes is not yours to decide — but what’s clear is that it makes for an unfair exchange in the end.

5) It trivializes playing the actual game. It sends the message that, if you want to have a different character, the game is not worth leveling through a second time. Part of the reason they put the work into creating so many diverse zones, and why there is account-bound anything, is to encourage people to play alts and experience things a different way.
When it comes down to it, there are some things in this game that are not for sale. If you want to max-level Charr, then make one and play through some new zones. Leveling a new character is not the worst thing in the world, and though it will take some time, it can be done. If you can’t bring yourself enjoy that, then frankly, you don’t enjoy the game and I don’t know why you’re here.

6) Allowing a race change is not the same as allowing a hair or face change — neither in degree, or in kind. Face and hair changes are cosmetic-only, whereas a race change has very real, concrete effects on gameplay and fairness.

1-2) Either reset the story with no benefits second play-through, or simply make it possible after a certain point (maybe even completion) of your personal story. Easy fix.

3) The racial armor has 2 solutions…
Either..

i- the cultural armor is at the expense of the player at that point and is now unuseable
ii- the cultural armor gets “mirrored” onto the same-tier set of the race you’re changing to.

Easy fix..

4) What’s the difference if I used skills for certain levels? That’s why I can already swap out my healing, utility, and elite skills whenever I want outside of combat, isn’t it? And it’s not like I’m not working or paying for a change of those skills, obviously there would be some gem cost.

5) Ignorant response. I have 8 level 80s, one of each profession. I gave this example earlier…I have a charr thief (which I like). What if I decide I don’t like that he’s bigger than a human and I’d rather have a human thief now? I’ve still played through every race’s storyline. However, for someone who hasn’t, why should they be forced to? I didn’t really like the norn storyline…why should I have to do it again just because I want the look/abilities of a norn? Isn’t most of the point to this game to not feel like you’re forced to do things?

6) Pretty much the same as 4. The biggest part to race change is cosmetics. Other than that, it’s same traits, same weapons, same profession, etc. The only real difference on gameplay is healing/utility/elite skills, which get swapped out anyway, and most of them really don’t have that big of an effect since profession skills are better in most situations anyway.

@Kaimick

I get what you’re saying about 15% not being exact majority, because yes, technically you would need over 50%. However, you have to consider that nothing in this game would ever be changed if this logic was always used, seeing as the actual majority is always the amount of people who don’t care.

(again, these numbers will be hypothetical)
Like I said earlier, some people think rangers are underpowered. Probably only 5% or less of the community actually plays a ranger often. These are going to be the people who care. This boils down to say 4% of all players want a ranger buff, 1% oppose it, and 95% don’t really care since they don’t play ranger. Using your logic before, this would mean ranger gets no buff and they remain underpowered in the eyes of some players. This definitely isn’t fair. The 4% to 1% majority comparison is much more relevant in any situation that targets people who actually care.

The Eternal Grace.3157:

@Kaimick

I get what you’re saying about 15% not being exact majority, because yes, technically you would need over 50%. However, you have to consider that nothing in this game would ever be changed if this logic was always used, seeing as the actual majority is always the amount of people who don’t care.

(again, these numbers will be hypothetical)
Like I said earlier, some people think rangers are underpowered. Probably only 5% or less of the community actually plays a ranger often. These are going to be the people who care. This boils down to say 4% of all players want a ranger buff, 1% oppose it, and 95% don’t really care since they don’t play ranger. Using your logic before, this would mean ranger gets no buff and they remain underpowered in the eyes of some players. This definitely isn’t fair. The 4% to 1% majority comparison is much more relevant in any situation that targets people who actually care.

Although that is not true, there have been many changes put forth on the forums and in the game that have been suggested on the forums. For example a Major one is the lag issue with dragon chest. Moderators use to infracted you with generic responses and no real explanation of why, enough people made cases for them to explain what was infrcated and why. That is now he standard.

Secondly you have to realize that your example if rangers underpowered, that isn’t just discussed in the suggestions ( this one topic is ) it is discussed on the WvWvW, PVP, Profession. I don’t know their system ( as in Devs ) but I do know from an interview when it comes to class issues like your example, once they get X amount complaints/ suggestion they go into a more research type of mode, they use what is said and test it out through many different avenues. They then figure how to Buff that class. Although in this case we are talking about a suggestion about something that has no implication in the game right now, ergo they can only go off of people that have voiced their opinion, as they are the people that truly want this suggestion. Again if someone can not take the 3 minutes to log onto the forums and find a single thread say ( about Race change ) and post on it then it really is not a big deal weather it is in the game. No matter how much someone complains in map chat, if they are not voicing their opinion here then they never really wanted it.

It’s funny that you say you see people who want this everywhere. Because I have seen a total amount of 0 in game.
The only ones I see asking for this is a few people of the forum. So where is the majority?

Either way that quote by the Anet employee that have been posted ought to end this. As that makes either side, be it for or against, completely invalid. Anet already decided.

Chris.6105:

I am against it, cause i think you should think about your charakter from the beginning.

This is not a reason, coz it not affects YOU.

Chris.6105:

I am against each kind of Make-Over, but I also can’t deny, that many players wants them and Anet gets money for it, so Anet…

can make money from race change kits too.
Next.

Kaimick.5109:

Kaimick.5109:

Hi there, Bacon.

I am afraid that the team does contemplate different possibilities and new features for the future but this one is not among those. So maybe it would make more sense to just try with a Charr and discover in the process the attractive of the Charr world

I am pretty sure that is the only reason you need, that is from CC Eva Arena Net employee

As I’ve said before, YOU didn’t have any PERSONAL reasons against race change.
Thanks for thread uppin.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

But how did it take you to level 80 to notice you didn’t like the weapons/armor?
Since you can’t preview other racial armors I can kind of understand not realizing the Human set was one you’d want (though there are several armor galleries on the web I skim through before rolling a character).

Did you even read my post?
This was far ago – no any galleries was in the Net!

ScribeTheMad.7614:

I agree the medium asura sets pretty much universally suck, I’ll give you that (although, the Prowler crafted set and the HoTW set aren’t too bad, and the Heritage (HoM reward) set isn’t too bad either, though that too looks a lot better on a Human or Sylvari.)

Now I know ALL sets in the game, so you can stop this pathetic try to study me – I didn’t ask for that.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Let me explain. If you use a Race Change item, and switch from Norn to Charr, what happens to your personal story? It no longer makes any sense, but if they simply reset the personal story that lets you get all of the story rewards again (BL keys and such), plus it lets you pick a different Order, which would mean you could go through the story, pick the Priory, buy a bunch of Priory skins, reset, go through again and pick the Vigil, allowing you to buy a second order’s skins.
Why is that an issue? Because currently the only way to get more than one Order’s skins on the same character requires getting a second character into the second order, buying the second set through them, and then using 12 Fine ‘mutation stones to transfer the skins to the first character (this is part of why you never gain access to 3 order’s sets later in the story)
So simply resetting the story would potentially cost Anet money.

facepalm ><
1st: story can be not reseted. Story reward can be obtained only once. Etc.
2nd: there is nothing to prevents me from exping many characters for the story complete. But for what? To farm Pact weapons? Do you really believe this? ><
3rd: I can exping any another character to buy skins from one order and move it to another and already did this many times. I will not explain how – think you know it if you sure you are experienced player
All “issues” easily beaten. Anything else?

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Giving you the option to manually pick your “past” choices within the new race.
This could be used to unlock entire “play-throughs” of the story (and their related achievements) for however much a race change item cost.

Hm… schema of ALL story quests was in the WEB I think… at the 2nd month after release! What you talkin about? ><

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Not changing anything has complications as well, just not exploitable ones. Because what happens when there’s new story type content? If you changed from Norn to Charr, but none of the story stuff was changed the game will still basically see you as a Norn, though you’d have access to Charr cultural armor.

yeah “I dunno what can happens but it will be something VERY SCARY sure! Wooooo!”

ScribeTheMad.7614:

But it’s not as simple as people would like to think.

And what your business in this? Are you ANet developer or what? This is ANet’s troubles, not customer’s.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Edit: I would also like to point out that the make-over kits are actually cosmetic only changes, and as such do not present the same issues presented by Race Change, because as I pointed out a race change is more than just a cosmetic change.

yeah, sex change... great.. starting story with male and ending with female. Story quests so horrible things, you know ^^

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Pointing out issues created by a requested change doesn’t make us trolls.

No it does! I just break all your "arguments" - noone from you didn’t have any reliable personal reasons against race change but continue posting things like "I’m against coz only one reason - I just wanna so!!!1111"

Some more reasons to make race change option:
* all Sylvary cultural armors looks really identically and the same ugly.
* only sylvary engineers have toolbelt Block skill
* only Humans have very cool healing skill - nearly the best for Elems

there was no any warnings about this at the character creation screen.

Zeefa.3915:

It’s funny that you say you see people who want this everywhere. Because I have seen a total amount of 0 in game.
The only ones I see asking for this is a few people of the forum. So where is the majority?

It’s funny that you say you see people who hardly against this everywhere. Because I have seen a total amount of 0 in game.
The only ones I see hating this is a few people of the forum. So where is the majority?

Nothing’s ever set in stone, so to speak, so don’t give up on your perseverance players. And how most of those TOS agreement lines get into the TOS agreement baffles my mind. They look more like just general guide lines that are lazily (or unthoughtfully) thrown into the TOS without realizing their potential ramifications on the moderators and other forum patrons who may try to quote the TOS to use as a threat against another patron or to silence them in some manner. Most of those TOS lines are way too broad in scope or not even practical or even necessary as a part of a TOS agreement. A good portion of those TOS agreements are absurd and need revisement.

Zahld.4956:

This is a thread to allow race changes, not otherwise. A reply of conflicting interests would only cause you to be considered a trolling poster. Get flamed for trolling if you’d like. Its better you make a new thread to oppose this suggestion instead of trying to make an opposition to the supporters of this post.

Amusing, if you cannot handle dissenting opinions then leave the internet. This is a place of discussion, how you reply to others (which is quite badly when they aren’t behind your opinion) quantifys how likely they are to take your suggestion to the devs. There are, as has been posted before, 80+ threads about this, meaning you break the TOS for starting another one anyway.

If you cannot handle rational reasons against your opinion, and cannot propose rational counters devoid of emotion (hint, you haven’t) than you are the troll in the discussion.

Also, as has been stated so many times, what anyone wants is irrelivent as CC Eva has already given us word that the devs are set against this firmly. There are far too many problems.

Seriously, if you make it past 30 before realizing your dislike for a race than you fail at noticing things pretty badly. Asura weapons being tiny? You will see it easily prior to 30. Voices you don’t like? Yup, you’ll hear plenty prior to 30. Animations? Yet again prior to 30. There is NOTHING about your character you cannot discover prior to 30 about liking/hating it.
Can you grow to hate it? Sure if you don’t take breaks. However, if you grow to hate it than you must make another…not simply change skins. Thus don’t go overboard gathering and fully equipping a character you don’t love.

So, why YOU against it? There is NO any opinions aginst (YOU didn’t have it too.) - so there is nothing to handle.

Why would anyone not want to play every class and race in the game?

Onshidesigns.1069:

Why would anyone not want to play every class and race in the game?

I have 8 characters fully exped and geared. Problems? Most of my characters have additional backpack slots and my bank have all possible slots. Problems?

Just wondering – what is your personal problem if I or someone else will be able to change his OWN character race? No, really, what problems for YOU?
If no any problems (but the fact is – there is NO any problems to the another players) – why you angry here? Envy? Seems like.

Anet make race change kit please. let it will cost 2k gems – it will be OK.

Runiir.6425:

Zahld.4956:

This is a thread to allow race changes, not otherwise. A reply of conflicting interests would only cause you to be considered a trolling poster. Get flamed for trolling if you’d like. Its better you make a new thread to oppose this suggestion instead of trying to make an opposition to the supporters of this post.

Amusing, if you cannot handle dissenting opinions then leave the internet. This is a place of discussion, how you reply to others (which is quite badly when they aren’t behind your opinion) quantifys how likely they are to take your suggestion to the devs. There are, as has been posted before, 80+ threads about this, meaning you break the TOS for starting another one anyway.

If you cannot handle rational reasons against your opinion, and cannot propose rational counters devoid of emotion (hint, you haven’t) than you are the troll in the discussion.

Also, as has been stated so many times, what anyone wants is irrelivent as CC Eva has already given us word that the devs are set against this firmly. There are far too many problems.

Seriously, if you make it past 30 before realizing your dislike for a race than you fail at noticing things pretty badly. Asura weapons being tiny? You will see it easily prior to 30. Voices you don’t like? Yup, you’ll hear plenty prior to 30. Animations? Yet again prior to 30. There is NOTHING about your character you cannot discover prior to 30 about liking/hating it.
Can you grow to hate it? Sure if you don’t take breaks. However, if you grow to hate it than you must make another…not simply change skins. Thus don’t go overboard gathering and fully equipping a character you don’t love.

TOS
Do not engage in staff call-outs. Using the words “ArenaNet” or any staff member’s name will not expedite the answer to your query.

See you already broke TOS already. Not all internet discussion is open to dissenting opinions, though I prefer this one not be, although I wasn’t the OP.

I’m fully behind my opinion, let there allow race changes! I want to change my race! You know you want to change your race! I don’t enjoy re-leveling as others do, so let me change my race. It hurts my eyes to play my race, change it.

I am a robot devoid of emotions when I propose opinions against reason. Trolls are usually the ones who try to anger someone for a response, and currently, I am angry yet emotionless. Must – be – low – power…. And I beep beep too!

Troll on dissenter troll on. Your reasons cannot defeat my opinions.

SilverWF.4789:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Why would anyone not want to play every class and race in the game?

I have 8 characters fully exped and geared. Problems? Most of my characters have additional backpack slots and my bank have all possible slots. Problems?

Just wondering – what is your personal problem if I or someone else will be able to change his OWN character race? No, really, what problems for YOU?
If no any problems (but the fact is – there is NO any problems to the another players) – why you angry here? Envy? Seems like.

Anet make race change kit please. let it will cost 2k gems – it will be OK.

Who said I angry but you?

A race change would not be easy for Anet to develop. It would require changing the stats, skills, traits, equipment, personal story, some achievements. Any errors in the system could result in unwanted changes in your account.

I think race change affects too many aspects of the game. To waste Anets resources on it.

Hi everyone,

As stated in another thread we have no further news to provide you about this issue. When we have something new we will be happy to inform you. Also, for future reference, please refrain from engaging in flamewars or personal attacks. There can be an exchange of opinions without the need to be at each other’s throats.

Thanks for your understanding. This thread is closed.